Jealousy (from a partner cheating) in the Sims 2

00:00 Intro
01:18 The Basics
03:34 Jealousy In Action
18:45 Severity & Social Categories
32:10 Jealousy Emitters & Attenuation
37:50 The Aftermath
41:58 Trivia (date rewards, ghost jealousy, gossip)
43:51 Conclusion
Severity tables: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
Resources
Simler90’s Romantic Standards: modthesims.info/d/609030/roma...
Midge The Tree’s Romantic Standards: midgethetree.dreamwidth.org/1...
Sims wiki article on Jealousy: sims.fandom.com/wiki/Jealousy
Sims wiki article on Affairs: sims.fandom.com/wiki/Affair
Sims wiki article on Fury: sims.fandom.com/wiki/Fury
Sims wiki List of Wants & Fears: sims.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_...
Marticore’s video on whether cheating can be discovered through gossip: • The Sims 2: Can you AC...
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[@margaretfk]

Don Lothario is watching this video and taking notes

[@floopyboo]

The repeated apologise gives the player the option of having the "offending" sim spend the entire night apologising, or have them make one half-hearted attempt and give up, or something in between. It's a fun interaction because of this.

[@magentaspoon5319]

Ah, gotta love the first time I played Pleasantview. I wanted Cassandra to have a proper wedding party, so I of course invited her best friends Darren and Mary Sue. I hadn’t played the Dreamers yet, so I was just as oblivious as Cassandra that Darren was in love with her. It’s funny how Darren was perfectly fine with showing up at the party and watching Cassandra get married to Don, but when she held hands with her new husband after the cermony, on her own wedding party, Darren freaked out and started to slap her. And then he kept showing up just to kick down their trash can every now and then, of course. Yeah, that was my first impression of him. I still can’t quite like him, even now when I know that this is just how the unmodded game works.

[@tiacat11]

"When a sim flirts with a sim in a committed relationship with someone else, the committed sim will be treated as though they cheated, even if they rejected the advance." Damn I didn't know Maxis consulted my ex for this game.

[@letomills]

Oh wow. Both Maxis but especially your ex sucked hard on that one, very sorry that happened to you.

[@tiacat11]

@@letomills Thanks, that means a lot. I'm doing a lot better now, I ditched her, got myself a loving and supportive friend group that doesn't make me feel like I'm constantly on edge, and honestly I'm living my best life now!

[@letomills]

@@tiacat11 Awesome, that's great to hear!

[@kulasniegowa7551]

Unmoded jealousy/cheating mechanics have always annoyed me a bit in TS2. Thanks for showing what it looks like in detail. Maxis had some excelent ideas but implementation - not so great. Anyways for me TS2 is miles ahead of newer games, at least when it comes to sims and their interactions, the complexity is unmatched.

[@Christophee1987]

A game with this many complexities will always have some things which don't work too well, but it's great that they were so willing to push the boundaries, and the community has been able to fix things so they work better. It's a shame the more recent games lack so many of these types of complex features.

[@indedgames4359]

You need to see the pros and cons and if it Was more pros then cons from.maxis perspectiv. Forinstance i like how jelousy Works in ts4 more as its less annoying and sims still react apropiatly. Sentiments helped make this even better.

[@___jsxd___]

​@@indedgames4359100% no. sims 4 does not have any pro, everything is con. also, ts4 sims have a negative IQ when it comes to... *whatever you compare it to ts2 sims*, so idk what are you talking about 🤡

[@nakymatonlapsiN]

i remember the devastation random sims flirting with a household member would cause in my families in ts2 lol

[@tistoaries1931]

I think the reason why wolf whistling doesn't trigger the "Have an Affair with" memory is because, according to the Sims wiki, evil mascots from universities can autonomously do that interaction on others Sims. Maybe Maxis wanted to prevent our Sims' memories panel to be cluttered with this. Also, I can see that Twikkii Island and tropical destinations in general are definitively a nice getaway for lovers and cheaters... No jealousy emitters near the beach and a little bonus in chemistry wow ! Until now, I've overlooked MidgeTheTree's RS because simler90's original mod was waaay too complex for me. Actually I had no idea there were so many fixes in MTT's version, so I'm glad you showcased it. Can't wait for your next video ! :)

[@tistoaries1931]

After some research, I found out that evil mascots can also do the "sweet talk" and probably others flirt interaction. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[@PixelSubstream]

Daniel, Dina, Mary Sue, and Mortimer having a wild time for the sake of science

[@time-aya]

My god i actually watched like 3 videos of you analyzing sims 2 mechanics and im impressed by amount of research you have to do for all of it, and how chill they are. can't wait for video talking more about poli-relationship and mods. And the date jealousy i feel so much right now i have guy with aspiration of having 50 first dates (he has almost 30 at now in senior year in collage) and i was wondering if relationship consulting could be handy for him or not really. Or literary the thing i didn't found anywhere that some trades benefits in skills (example lazy sims have boost with logic) or like blue thing kinda like fury what benefits it has. Or if charisma boosts sims interactions and more and more.... sims 2 are just bigger than people think and that why they are great

[@snarkbotanya6557]

I feel like there may be some logic to how the social categories work, with the most severe interactions being those that require the highest relationship values and thus indicate that the cheating "runs deeper," so to speak. From a Sim's perspective, if their partner charms someone, that's bad but it's a low-level flirt that Sims can do successfully without even being friends. But if that same partner gooses or smooches someone, that's an interaction that's only unlocked when their relationship with the other Sim is very high, so it shows a degree of emotional infidelity that Charm really doesn't. The problem with this is that Caress, another very high relationship flirt, is categorized with Charm. I wonder if there are any mods that reshuffle severity based on the required relationship values to perform the interaction.

[@IMPGIRL]

this is such a niche yet well explored subject i'm literally so happy i clicked. i've never been more invested on something before plus watching sims sprint to their partners is so funny for no reason anyways ty for researching this :D!

[@gaiabound]

Chapter 12 of the sims 2 prima guide goes into how jealousy should work in the base game and mentions and the sim being cheated on should be able to find out if a witness uses is as a ‘conversation topic’. Im not sure if this is gossip only, or chat, or both since I think chat can also pull from hidden memories, but maybe this is another thing expansions messed with/broke

[@letomills]

Oh right, I didn't think about chat pulling from hidden memories! Though from what we know, it's likely that reporting on cheating was meant to be limited to the gossip interaction. There was a promotional video showcasing, among other things, the wife of Don's prototype being made aware of her husband cheating: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z5malH97qbiXors&ab_channel=SimVisible It's at 6:50. And you can see that Virginia, the sim reporting Don's cheating to his wife, seems to be using the gossip interaction (she's not controllable but those are the gossip animations). This was quite a bit before release though, so maybe things were changed later, or as you said it was broken by an expansion pack.

[@gaiabound]

@@letomills I’ve seen the video and agree that’s definitely the gossip interaction, but the prima guide doesn’t specify how the memories have to spread in the final release so I thought I’d mention that it could be either!:)

[@letomills]

@@gaiabound Yeah that's a good point, especially when they use the phrasing "conversation topic" like you said 🤔

[@gaiabound]

@@letomills I’m also not too sure how the memory markers label affairs(positive or negative) Chapter 5 of the prima guide mentions that gossip only spreads bad memories, whereas brag spreads good ones, but for the person cheating the ‘affair’ is a good memory, so gossip may not spread it? Chat I think can bring up good or bad memories I think, although the prima guide calls it ‘Talk’ here.:)

[@letomills]

@@gaiabound Mmh yeah that makes sense. I've seen gossip about someone being caught cheating, which is a negative memory, but never about someone cheating. This made me want to try something. I just had Don brag to Cassandra repeatedly in a fresh Pleasantview: he bragged about sleeping with Kaylynn, kissing Kaylynn, kissing Nina, and even literally having an affair with Dina. Cassandra was completely chill about it and their relationship didn't tank at all lol

[@jacquelinhoover9891]

This is very interesting. I actually don’t have the ultimate collection, I have discs, so soon I’ll check the gossip thing and see if it makes the cheated-on sim react.

[@wellknownslacker]

I think what rejecting the social for the scolding cheaters interaction meant was like most interaction, it fails when relationship is low and since after witnessing the partner of a relative cheating the relationship is decreased,it's too low and the interaction is rejected and doesn't play out . Maybe the devs didn't plan an alternative so nothing happens ?

[@letomills]

Oh I see, yes that would make sense.

[@NightTreasure_]

Just a comment for the algorithm. Love your vids btw❤️

[@letomills]

Thank you! 😄

[@catchyalata777]

Love all the details you're able to share with us in these videos. Excellent research, as always!

[@indedgames4359]

To be fair it is realistic that sims get jelous even if ther Feelings arent requiat

[@letomills]

Yeah that's true, I just wish Maxis had gone about it with more subtlety. Like Darren could be sad or upset but maybe not to the point of getting intensely mad at Cassandra and slapping her. The poor girl did nothing wrong 😅

[@valumtimes]

Your deep dives are so wonderful! The editing and accompanying clips are clear and visually appealing, and your script is thorough and relaxing. It also just warms my heart that people like yourself are archiving details on timeless media like this. Thank you so much for another great video. Very nicely done. :)

[@dozzy9984]

Very cool video and it's more stuff to appreciate how Sims 2 was made. Everytime I see videos exploring the technical details of this game I feel like devs really cared to make this a great life simulation in addition to being a game. Btw. love that scene where you broke all Pleasantview couples, while Bella and Mortimer are just chilling, enjoying the chaos (but I swear, Mortimer was tasked to do something by the game due to how weirdly his head behaved, like he was erroring).

[@letomills]

Yeah, I think Mortimer was trying to keep his sight on someone, and then he got annoyed that Don was crying 😅 He was probably being fed gossip memories as well, sims get a bit twitchy when a lot is happening around them and it's not the best for filming.

[@lenka8251]

I'm obsessed with the mechanics of the sims series esp sims 2 and your videos, they're so good

[@panchisoto22]

Excellent research! Love the work you put in these!

[@gabrielar4986]

I absolutely adore you for this type of content ❤️ thank you a million!

[@sofiv95]

I discovered your channel a couple of days ago and I love all yhe effort you put into your videos. Also, thank you so much for including subtitles

[@zuzannastan96]

Thank you so much for your effort, these are the most detailed and the best sims videos on KZbin ❤ Please keep going with the amazing work, I bet all sims fans are grateful 🤩

[@itamarmedeirosnetto]

I love how in depth, well research and well explained your vedeos are

[@M00nqueen]

Very informative and interesting, I really wish it wouldn’t be counting it as cheating when the rejected the flirt…

[@jljljl1820]

i live for these ts2 deepdives and investigations. well done!

[@veritydwyer7799]

Yaaaaaaas the video I’ve needed my entire life ❤

[@erincunningham4511]

Wow! Thanks for doing all this research, so interesting!

[@estefaniavvv]

I love your video

[@Akane153]

Very nice video, I was so involved I didn't even notice how quickly the time had passed

[@letomills]

Thank you! 😊 After weeks of working on a video I end up questioning if what I'm talking about is even interesting to anyone, so that's good to hear lol

[@AniBats]

Oh wow this was so cool! I've been playing with SImler90's RS for a long time now, so it was super cool to see again how the sims react in a vanilla game. It makes me love RS even more haha! I'm always amazed by how thorough you are in your research and testing, really really cool. Thank you so much for creating this ❤

[@letomills]

Yep Simler90 did an amazing job. I'm glad you enjoyed! 😊

[@Lemony123]

Wait, I mean. I find the category that Maxis made actually made sense. (Category for severity)

[@Helda_Ilweranta]

Can't wait for you jealousy mods video! Especially the polymorous aspect of it. I'm currently trying to figure out how to mod polyamory in my game with my current mod setup (Broken Doll's replacing Inteen instuction with teen/adult interaction enabled + want three edit with adults go steady want).

[@olaola5191]

38:38 how can I console a sim? I have never seen that option. 🥺🥺🥺

[@letomills]

It's something they can only do autonomously, unfortunately. You have too be in the right situation to see it.

[@oceanbella]

Sims remember their past lives sometimes.

[@Lotte.Macchiato]

Thanks for this vid! Really interesting. 😁

[@BellaDovah]

I feel like every video you do could be done as a University Dissertation, so thorough, well researched and eloquent. Fantastic information, thank you! It really got me thinking (and hoping) that all of the specific fixes you mentioned made in Simler90's Romantic Standards are also included in Midge's as that's the one I use. Looking forward to the next :)

[@letomills]

Thank you 😊 Yes, Midge kept all of the fixes in Simler's version and even added more! I recently made the switch from Simler's RS to Midge's and it's one of the things I made sure of. I'll talk more about both versions of RS in the next vid because their treatments of jealousy is actually the reason why I switched to Midge's.

[@BellaDovah]

@@letomills ah wow thats so interesting, can't wait to hear more about that! For me Simler's was too difficult to keep up with and understand all the 100s of changes in updates vs the original description, plus a lot more incompatibilities and also that Midge's incorporates the Traits Project which I love!

[@letomills]

@@BellaDovah Yeah Midge did really good work 😊

[@digi_joamp]

Thank you!

[@vuthomas]

Really enjoy your deep dive videos, especially on game mechanics! Thank you for taking the time to put this together, it was so interesting. I remember years ago, I had a Sims 2 family in which the mum cheated on the dad with another sim. They tried for baby, and I'm pretty sure that both when mum was pregnant and the baby was born, the dad did not get jealous. I can't remember how the family tree looked and it was a number of years ago, but I'll test it again at some point.

[@letomills]

Glad you liked it 😃 There's a mod that can make sims jealous when they see that their partner is pregnant from someone else! (It's called Preg Rel - Chris Hatch made the original mod, Kestrellyn made a compatibility patch. I'll talk about it next vid.)

[@vuthomas]

@@letomills yay, thank you for replying and for letting me know!

[@andreasamardzija1496]

So your partner is free to woohoo *in a tent* okay

[@pinkcatacombs]

Maybe peck doesn’t have jealously bc it’s the same animation as family kiss ?

[@letomills]

Oh that's a good point, maybe peck was cloned from family kiss and they forgot to add the code for jealousy, or something like that.

[@ravenID429]

@@letomillsI think it’s interesting that sims don’t react to the “greet” romantic animation where they kiss lol, or at least Cassandra didn’t when Nina *greeted* Don in my game😂

[@tisvana18]

@@ravenID429I think they do, I’m pretty sure I’ve had a family nuked with drama for one of those before lol. I also play with 23k mods though so who is to say for certain lololol

[@aliveslice]

13:00 16:52 42:15

[@dreamielynn1264]

Herb and Jennifer? Yikes haha