Jesus as Fictional Allegory - Acharya S & Joe Atwill Conversation

caesarsmessiah...
Excerpt from the Conversation between Achary S. and Joseph Atwill.
Is Jesus a fictional allegory created by the most powerful families in the 1st Century as a device for political control?
Could the title of "Christ" actually apply to a Roman Caesar?
In this informal discussion, Acharya S / D.M. Murdock and Joseph Atwill offer their perspectives on Atwill's provocative "Caesar's Messiah" Theory, which concludes that Jesus is not a historical figure, that the Gospels are literature not history, and that the ministry of the fictional character Jesus is modeled on the military campaign of Roman Caesar Titus Flavius as he battled against the Jewish revolt in Judea.
The two scholars discuss why this "savior god" myth needed to be anchored in history in contrast to earlier similar myths that were not. The purpose was to create the ultimate Super State with the authority to represent God on Earth.
Watch the Caesar's Messiah Documentary COMMERCIAL-FREE for rent or purchase on Amazon:
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Based on the book "Caesar's Messiah" by Joseph Atwill
Featured scholars are Joseph Atwill, Robert Eisenman, John Hudson, Kenneth Humphreys, Rod Blackhirst, Acharya S / D.M. Murdock, and Timothy Freke.
Produced by Nlightning workZ Copyright 2012
Directed by Fritz Heede
Written by Nijole Sparkis and Joseph Atwill
Cinematography by Marisa Maldonado & Fritz Heede
Narrated by Nijole Sparkis
Produced by Nijole Sparkis, Fritz Heede and Joseph Atwill
Music and Editing by Fritz Heede
/ caesarsmessiah

[@m0ner0thethird]

I remember learning of Acharya back in 2002-2003 Gosh she taught me so much and freed me from mental shackles. I love her so much. Rest my sweet Angel.

[@razony]

Dido!

[@suckseedorsuckeggs]

My thoughts and experience exactly!

[@janglestick]

@@razony cool. do you mean 'ditto' ? or Dori? just askin

[@razony]

@@janglestick Crap! I did mean "Ditto." What was I thinking.? Thanks man!

[@janglestick]

@@razony lol thats funny. It's cool to see people so enthusiastic about the truth, especially without the need for a hardcore atheistic debunking of spirit itself. and on the upside i went and listened to Dido & em&m 'stan' from 2000. been a while! cheers mate

[@OnlineMD]

Acharya S (Dorothy Milne Murdock) was amazing. Aachaarya is a Sanskrit word for teacher, scholar. I have some of her books and she autographed her book "Suns of God" for me. She struggled financially and with illness (she died of breast cancer Dec 25th, 2015) in her amazing life, but prevailed and has left to us a great legacy of great thought. It is pretty much the truth that especially in America, one will never prevail in academic/university professorships if one states that Jesus was a mythical God. Professors, even Bart Ehrman, who found the gospels so flawed and corrupted by scribes, still claims that there was a "historical Jesus." That Jesus once lived and walked the earth is a concept that is inviolable for these professors. You can argue about what Jesus really represented, but that he was historical, will never be contested by these academics if they want to hang on to their jobs. So there it is. This is her website: www.truthbeknown.com/

[@joecurran2811]

I didn't realise struggled financially. A shame with her books.

[@benstandard]

​@@joecurran2811Truth tellers are not allowed to have a comfortable life in this system.

[@jameshicks7125]

I read 'The Christ Conspiracy' as I was coming out of my psychotic relationship with fundamentalist Christianity. I had read my Bible cover to cover (an agonizing exercise) with Stong's Exhaustive Concordance. At the time I began thinking the Bible was too contrived, and too focused on epistemological dis-integration. Achary S | D.M. Murdock was my first buoy coming out of my faith. THANK YOU!!!

[@RoseSharon7777]

The story of Jesus was written as an allegory that was never meant to be literalized Jer. 31. It was paganized by Rome. The life of Jesus was supposed to be a picture of how every person seeking truth finds its. The christ formed IN YOU is the hope of salvation for others. The word manifest in you is what reveals Yhwh the father to the world. You are supposed to be the lamb that offers your life for others. Everything Jesus did was a picture type. Every reward power and authority given to him is given to you. John 1 clearly explains he is the manifest logos of God. If we consume the word of God overcome our sin death to self we arise as a new man. The last Adam. Unfortunately the story was corrupted soon after it was written. However, we were warned it would be. The truth will set free. Thats why we were told rold to COME OUT of the harlot church in Revelation. The whole religious system is mystery Babylon. I hope you have discovered this truth since the 2 years you wrote this comment. The kingdom has been hidden like a pearl of great value. The kingdom comes without obversation and is within you. The word came and dwelt WITHIN US. Thousands of mistranslations and corruptions led us all into pagan idolatry and deep deception of a strong delusion as the story warned us 2k years ago. Also by Jer. 8.8.

[@jameshicks7125]

@@RoseSharon7777 I am getting a mixed message in your reply. On one hand you seem to be affirming that this allegory; a work of fiction, then on the other hand I am reading this as somewhere between evangelical and apologetic, as you're essentially presenting with a Transcendental Argument for God at the end. I am no longer interested in the Bible or any religious texts. All the best

[@RoseSharon7777]

@@jameshicks7125 👍.

[@namispondjamispond9282]

Dr. Ray Hagins is another excellent teacher and will help free anyone from the shackles of religion.

[@rulisa1131]

I cheered out loud when I found this video! I found both of you separately and after Acharya's passing, and found myself wishing you had met! What a time to be alive!

[@cameradanblack]

The parallels Awill show in his work are there.This is proof of tampering and suggests that the gospels are not history but that they are intentional forgery.The typology of Moses to Jesus is evident in the gospels and the typology to Titus is evident when read inter-textually with War of the Jews.Many scholars have noticed the parallels over the centuries but Atwill is the first to discover that they all occur in the same sequence and same locations in each story.Evidence not easily dismissed.

[@aliAhmed-zq1tg]

The mere EXISTANCE of a crucifixion of THE KING OF THE JEWS who was infallible to be inherited by Roman Popes and cardinals is a living proof of THE ROMAN HUMAN HAND.

[@unbroken1010]

Yeah take that you Bible Thumpers!!!!!

[@geezzerboy]

Christianity has always succeeded by promising 'something for nothing'. Stuff for prayers.

[@Mrch33ky]

POW!

[@billbrenne5475]

Worse than that, Christianity basically says that the world is run by God's opponent, and, in practice, that this life doesn't matter--not for Jesus (if he existed), or for anyone else. What's the difference between this and nihilism, exactly?

[@srgriffith]

Nailed is another direct and well written look at 10 christian myths. Caesar's Messiah dovetails very nicely with "Nailed".

[@Mrgruffy44]

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it".--Joseph Goebbels "How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has been for us and our predecessors."-- Pope Leo X Giovanni di Lorenzo de' Medici Pope (1513-1521) “It has served us well, this myth of Jesus" attrib to Cesare Borgia

[@aliAhmed-zq1tg]

I was listening the other day to a Jewish female theologian who said she liked Martha when she " fussed back " at Jesus and then she added that THIS A VERY JEWISH THING to do . She then added that Jews tend to Express Raw emotions like we Find in the book of Job . Little did she know that Job was not a jew. Voltaire once of the first biblical critic discovered THE REAL IDENTITY of Job . I will give you the link to read an add to your KNOWLEDGE.

[@aliAhmed-zq1tg]

Here the link to what Voltaire says about prophet Job THE ARAB. ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/v/voltaire/dictionary/chapter44.html The same " Jewish theologian" once mentioned voltaire in angry way because he is known to have made some " screed " against the jews. But Voltaire is right about discovering the true ORIGINS of the book Job.

[@TorahisLifeandLight]

@@aliAhmed-zq1tg We the Jews from 30AD always despised the Roman Empire with their paganism. From 40AD-325AD, Sephardic Jews never agreed with the Roman's Religion who embraced the embraced our "faith" and paganized it with their sun god worship. Many believers who were followers of the Hebrew Messiah were persecuted by the Roman emperors and so called "founding fathers" of Christianity. I am so glad Mr. Joe Atwill was able to exposed this information because he as an academic figure..is not viewed as if We the Jews expose it. We were persecuted at all times when we tried to expose the deception and paganism of Christianity. See the Expulsion of the Sephardic Jews in 1492 to 1497 from Spain and Portugal... Not only we had the Roman Empire breathing on our necks trying to get rid of our faith but also tried to exterminate us as an ethnic group. See the Jewish Wars from 70AD to 133AD. BUT in 1492 we had the monarchs ruling class of Spain and Portugal also doing the same to us from 300AD to 484AD and the monarchs stopped because ISLAM came to Spain. Later the Monarchs tried again in 700AD, then ISLAM FOUGHT BACK AND THE MONARCHS BACKED OFF. Until 1492 , they tried again. .Everywhere we went , we the pagans trying to silents us because we the truth about their paganism and deception. I will share this video and others i found from others people basically adding more evidence of what a FRAUD is "Christianity". People need to realize if they want to adopt the faith of the Jews , the real faith, they need to abandon the paganism of Christianity. Hopefully they can at least worship God the way we do it a we have been doing it for 3500 years. WATCH MY VIDEOS TO FIND OUT ABOUT THE REAL HEBREW MESSIAH

[@TerrorFront.]

@@TorahisLifeandLight your religion is fake, just like the others.

[@mmccrownus2406]

Goebbels quote referred to the big lies of the Juze

[@rationalsceptic7634]

She was so beautiful and clever,cant believe this gifted woman is no longer with us tcx

[@sugoitom]

Sceptic Science this is my first time seeing this is she dead same as Christopher Hitchens dam I just googled her she died on Christmas Day shit for breast cancer dam RIP

[@healthyone100]

she looked so healthy i'm sure she took care of herself can't believe she gone!

[@doma7887]

Despises Jesus, dies on Christmas day. Tragic irony or poetic justice? You tell me.

[@abrahamlincoln9280]

I believe Christ might’ve been real, but who knows But that is not the point The teachings should have a lesson and moral, which is to be a good person, and be mindful and kind to others

[@chapiit08]

I've met Jesus, he's from Guadalajara and he is my gardener.

[@rulisa1131]

Does he also prune the demonic roots?

[@epiphanydrums5427]

I don’t have a gardener... BUT I have a girlfriend named Sue and when ever she’s outside in the yard and I yell “HEY SUE!” to get her attention, one my Hispanic neighbors stairs at me strangely from his porch. I’m not sure if I should try to explain or not?

[@TorahisLifeandLight]

LOL no bro, he is salvavorian..jajajajajaj

[@Tomorrow32]

Power & Money. That explains why the Pop of Rome approved slavery when few were concerned.

[@modo203]

UNBELIEVABLE.. Some humans are truly brilliant! Thank you Acharya, and thank you Dr. Atwill and GOD bless Atheism ;-)

[@wowojeejee]

God is as real as wrestling! Seek the truth!

[@gernotueblacker7578]

You're right it's totally unbelievable. See the comments I just posted.

[@comanche66100]

Oh Rawandi, such an "intellect". " God bless atheism ". That is so "good". How many dormant neurons did U have to "cajole" to come up with a statement like that? OH, it was someone ELSE'S statement?? My apologies. I overrated you.

[@mikearcuri406]

Clip has nothing to do with atheism. It merely questions the authenticity of Christianity.

[@gernotueblacker7578]

Not even Bart Ehrman buys this BS. He's trying to say Josephus wrote the entire NT. 😂😂 The science of stylometry proves him to be the idiot he is. www.rasch.org/rmt/rmt151k.htm That leaves him and every other Mythicist in the same boat. No plausible alternate scenario. All they have is quackery.

[@Jettraha]

What blows my mind is that I’ve asked Jesus time after time to reveal himself to me or at least just show me that he’s there. I did this while soaking myself in tears and screaming up at the ceiling of my house. I didn’t experience anything. No voices, flashes of light, phantom touches, etc. Yet I still have my faith in him.

[@lanazak773]

Most Christians and atheists are too invested in their own theories and perspectives to be open to this, even (according to Atwill) Richard Carrier. This information should be earth shattering yet we don’t hear much about it.

[@nororncluber6237]

thank you for posting...I hope christians can see this and open their eyes to the truth.

[@healthyone100]

i was a believer for 25 years and believed i had the truth but it looks like i was wrong thanks to a man named jordon maxwell and the internet i was able to open my eyes i still believe in some kind of a creator but haven't figured out why we are here!

[@healthyone100]

most christians bodies are so polluted with meat and junk food they can never see it, i had to fast and eat a vegan diet to open my eyes thank god i did!

[@namispondjamispond9282]

Thank God for people like these two. There are some Christians who will choose to live a blind ignorant life. They may be so brainwashed and beyond help. I know that only too well. I have a friend who has a degree in religious studies and he still goes to church!! I sent him Caesers Messiah and he responded that there was nothing new in it???? Honestly, how can you help people like that!! Sadly, religion has ruined my life but I'm still here and I just try to look forward and be positive.

[@expandingknowledge8269]

Skepticism is perhaps the best way to approach, all forms of supernatural claims. Absolutely Love Acharya S. and her information she provided ,as a course in sanity ! R.I.P. Acharya S !!!

[@neil9231]

The allegory is of the skyclock called astrotheology, the Romans made the story literal,

[@maxincountrywerks]

I think these types of discussions are so important. Whether Joe’s thesis is ultimately correct or not is irrelevant. The Bible will always be more or less a Rorschach test. If it was concrete proof of any one thing, there wouldn’t be a million different interpretations. I personally don’t find much of it convincing at all. The Gospels don’t read like actual historical accounts. Each one was a composite. (Yes, even Mark.) When we read works of this nature, our common sense is supposed to kick in as we realize that it’s not meant to be taken literally. And don’t get me started on Saul/Paul. What a nutjob of a character. We have to put aside all the brainwashing and fantasies and really try to be honest with ourselves-does faith in Jesus really do us any good? That’s up to the individual to answer. And always remember that it’s possible to believe in God while not believing in Jesus. So many people try to make it one or the other. I’m here to remind you that it doesn’t have to be that way.

[@theforestero]

A lie repeated many times, is more valuable and important than a lie not repeated much.

[@andrewmarkmusic]

Murdock never puts 2 and 2 together when it comes to the Hebrew Pharaohs and their merging with Rome (likely through Cleopatra)....Once one considers that some of the Roman elites were offspring of Hebrew Pharaohs then the merging of Egyptian religion with Christianity makes sense: these descendants of the Hebrew Pharaohs simply recreated their Egyptian religion via Christianity and they hid in plain site.

[@gustavozaragosa]

After listening to Acharya, Christianity finally makes sense. I was raised a Catholic and left the church early in my life because it made no sense to me. I really believed as a young person but found the church full of self-serving hypocrites that were wholly unchristian. Finally I understand why Christianity attracts such bad people, it is not a religion, it is a political system of control. That's why there are so many judgemental, self-righteous people in the church. And I think that none of the church leaders actually believe in sin or hell because otherwise why would the pope protect child-molestors and not speak out against them, condem them and kick them out of the church. It is all a big fraud, they should loose their tax-exempt status and be outlawed. They are in the same category as palm-readers and fortune-tellers.

[@aliAhmed-zq1tg]

Silvia Summers Read a book titled THE AGE OF REASON Written by THOMAS PAINE in this book He despised three concepts in the bible: 1. Mystery 2. PROPHECIES 3. MIRACLES He did say in this SEMINAL BOOK that these PROPHETS were called in the BIBLE or at least STARTED THIS PROFESSION of prophecy and prophecizing as SEERS or put more precisely as POETIC FIRTUNETELLERS. The root etymology of the word KOHUN is exactly POETIC FIRTUNETELLERS. Read this book and study every page of it.

[@peterladetto708]

But why would poor essene Jews be considered masons?

[@srgriffith]

This makes so much sense. The theories of Atwill, et al are FAR more plausible than the contradictory psuedo-history taught by religous appolgists.

[@catholicorthodoxperson6979]

Holy fuck, your grammar is atrocius, especially considering you probably live in the USA. No Historian, atheist or religious, has yet voiced support for Atwil's bullshit. I have a BA in Theology (I did classes on Church History), which is not much, but I can assure you that this is nonsense.

[@Grayraven777]

Detective Atwill, deserves a medal for solving this cold case.

[@eretzsus]

A very nice high quality production . Two of the great minds of our generation. Thanks for the video.

[@TorahisLifeandLight]

DID YOU KNOW? We the Jews from 30AD always despised the Roman Empire with their paganism. From 40AD-325AD, Sephardic Jews never agreed with the Roman's Religion who embraced the embraced our "faith" and paganized it with their sun god worship. Many believers who were followers of the Hebrew Messiah were persecuted by the Roman emperors and so called "founding fathers" of Christianity. I am so glad Mr. Joe Atwill was able to exposed this information because he as an academic figure..is not viewed as if We the Jews expose it. We were persecuted at all times when we tried to expose the deception and paganism of Christianity. See the Expulsion of the Sephardic Jews in 1492 to 1497 from Spain and Portugal... Not only we had the Roman Empire breathing on our necks trying to get rid of our faith but also tried to exterminate us as an ethnic group. See the Jewish Wars from 70AD to 133AD. BUT in 1492 we had the monarchs ruling class of Spain and Portugal also doing the same to us from 300AD to 484AD and the monarchs stopped because ISLAM came to Spain. Later the Monarchs tried again in 700AD, then ISLAM FOUGHT BACK AND THE MONARCHS BACKED OFF. Until 1492 , they tried again. .Everywhere we went , we the pagans trying to silents us because we the truth about their paganism and deception. I will share this video and others i found from others people basically adding more evidence of what a FRAUD is "Christianity". People need to realize if they want to adopt the faith of the Jews , the real faith, they need to abandon the paganism of Christianity. Hopefully they can at least worship God the way we do it a we have been doing it for 3500 years. WATCH MY VIDEOS TO FIND OUT ABOUT THE REAL HEBREW MESSIAH

[@davidwilson3465]

Would have loved to have heard a round table with DM , R Carrier and Uncle Bob. It would have been so informative! Rest In Peace beloved scholar. So many people love you still.

[@silkhead44]

RIP Acharya

[@ivananderson7860]

+silkhead44 I didn't know she died, damn! VERY ironic it was on 12/25, when she destroyed the Christ myth, celebrated on 12/25.

[@no3rdseat]

+Ivan Anderson (ThaKang76) And her birthday falls on Easter this year!

[@xxMrBaldyxx]

@cobainzlady you are a horrible person.

[@bestrealtorintheworld7310]

@cobainzlady a lot of us are fine with a dirt nap. thinking should not equal to thought crime.

[@57strub]

@cobainzlady lol. Did she shatter your delusions in some way? Are you afraid of truth? Go sacrifice a goat to your god and everything will be ok again sweety.

[@timlang4946]

I tried for so long to get Acharya to check out Atwill's book . I was stunned to see this footage seeing Joe had finally won her Over after so long . I still have the e-mails . Personally, the Genealogical lineages back to David are the most convincing of fabrication to me . The 14 sequences , one being only 13 because 1 person was counted twice from each sequence . Then finally the 4 missing people of course . If there are people missing then the David connection doesn't exist .

[@rhabdob3895]

Look at you name dropping some christ killers. You are something aren’t you.

[@bemco2496]

It's ironic that she died on Christmas day December 25th RIP

[@plasmaplasmajohndoe5012]

yes, but most important question is, "what would -jesus christ- titus flavius do"? blessings 2 all beings!

[@kevinkeyes6625]

He would deny health care to the dying

[@karenabrams8986]

He’d send us all like grist for his huge brutal death machine/entertainment mill called the Flavian Amphitheater that he built using the temple loot.

[@yaletownfox]

Atwill is sheer brilliance. Such clarity of line in his explanations.

[@watchtowerwitch4426]

PACKED STUFFED with info. Wish it was longer. Ggggrrrrrrr. 2 EXPERT SPEAKERS!! Crystal clear, easy to follow, not annoying voices or "habits" (spurrs).. no IRRITATING back ground noise like 'an aquarium' (inside joke) Jane do do bird... lolololol

[@kerrydustin3996]

That bro shake at the end was awesome.

[@jvegas3209]

And how ironic that the capital of Christianity sits in Rome and not Jerusalem. Hmmm

[@albertjackson9236]

Jesus was created by Saul/Paul.

[@stchew49]

First and foremost, RIP Acharya S - you are one bravest of women! Here's why I do not believe in Jesus or in his resurrection: a simple and realistic reason why Jesus' tomb was empty! If I were Joseph of Arimathea, what do you think I would do if after taking Jesus down from the cross, I found that he was still alive albeit in a coma? The answer is simple: I would stage a mock burial as I can't possibly hand him back to the authorities to be crucified a second time. For this I would need help from James (Jesus' brother). The body I bore covered in linen to the cave-tomb wasn't a dead Jesus but his living brother, James! Meantime, I would have my friend Nicodemus tend to Jesus' wounds in some secret place! James would then let himself out of the cave-tomb sometime in the night! Incidentally, this was why the cave was chosen for a tomb as burying James in the ground would have killed him! This is the secret that Joseph of Arimathea, Nicodemus, James, Mary (Jesus' mother) and Jesus took with them to their graves! This also accounts for Jesus meeting Saul on the road to Damascus, resulting in the latter's conversion. Sadly, in fleeing Israel, Jesus was leaving his disciples in the lurch! But how do I know that it was James who took Jesus' place in the cave-tomb? Here's the evidence - straight from the bible itself! 1. James never spoke of Jesus' virgin birth, miracles and ascension to heaven! Like Jesus, James preached no gospel! All that Jesus allegedly preached in the Gospel of John (which was the last of the 4 gospels written) were works of poetic imagination as many of these key teachings were not mentioned in the other 3 gospels! For instant, the raising of Lazarus from the dead was never mentioned in the other 3 gospels! 2. James preached that "faith (i.e. faith in Jesus) without works is dead." This is a sharp contrast to what Peter, John and Paul preached i.e. one is not saved by works but by faith alone. 3. James warned of Christians whose tongues are like the rudder of ships i.e. they make mountains of molehills. He was referring to Peter, John and Paul and their claims that Jesus rose from the dead! 4. If Jesus was in the tomb, he would have been too grievously hurt, nor have the strength, to roll away the stone! It would take a person free of serious injuries to do that. 5. In the Book of Acts, Peter and Paul, rejecting the need for Gentile believers to be circumcised, criticized James for teaching that Gentile believers should be circumcised and abstain from blood and food offered to idols i.e. James was a devout follower adherent of Judaic practices. 6. Jesus himself said that he came to fulfill the law, and not to destroy it i.e. he too sought to fulfill Judaic laws. 7. Jesus was crucified not because he preached he was the Son of God (he in all probability never did - it was the gospel writers who proclaimed him to be the Son of God since they believed God raised him from the dead) but because he was critical of the hypocrisy and corruption of the pharisees and Sanhedrin. 8. Jesus' own family did not believe that he was the messiah or son of God. See John 7:5 9. On many occasions Jesus had to hide each time the Jews sought to harm him. After his so-called resurrection, he fled Israel for good (and met Saul on the road to Damascus) and was never seen or heard of again in the land of Israel. 10. If indeed Jesus was the way, the truth and the life, billions of unbelievers would go to hell. How then can one say that God is merciful when He doesn't seem to understand what forgiveness is! James and Jesus understood this better than the 4 unknown gospel writers, Peter, Paul and John. 11. Jesus could perform no miracles: Mark 6:5 - And he could there do no mighty work. Matthew 13:58: “And he did not do many miracles there because of their unbelief.” All of Jesus' miracles are myths! 12. Matthew 10:34-36 - "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." Matthew 10:34-36 are heinous understatements Jesus made: As the purported Son of God, he did not foresee how his teachings would lead to the Holy Crusades and contribute to the Church's 1500 years of burning of people they consider heretics, apostates, blasphemers, and no less, the Jews for killing Jesus. 13. The gospel of Jesus was the gospel of Paul! He wrote most of the New Testament and his doctrines determine the doctrines in the 4 gospels. 14. The council at Nicaea chose the books that now make up the New Testaments. It rejected several other gospels, not least those that do not emphasize or speak of Jesus' resurrection. 15. Biblical characters in the Old Testament resorted to violence, trickery or deception to achieve their desired goals e.g. Kane killed Abel; Jacob deceived Isaac into believing he was Esau; Laban tricked Jacob into marrying Leah; David sent Uriah Heep into the thickest part of a battle so he would be killed and he could then marry Bathsheba; Peter and Paul offered money to the church at Jerusalem in the hope that James (then the leader at the church of Jerusalem) would be more amendable to their belief that Gentile could be part of the church without having to undergo Judaic rites (e.g. be circumcised) but James firmly rejected the offer! This circumcision requirement is recorded in Acts 15. My point is: whose version of the gospel should one follow to be saved - James or Paul? After taking Jesus down from the cross, Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus had to think of an ingenious way to save Jesus after finding that he was still alive! Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus are 2 men in the New Testament you would want for friends! I am a born-again atheist. I seek only to know the truth. Years of pondering on the bible led me to my hypothesis that Jesus survived the cross. He would be appalled at what he and the Church had wittingly and/or unwittingly done! I rest my case.

[@sunilambat9982]

Only Jesus can save your soul, read the Bible and follow him

[@b747guy9]

Was so sorry to hear about her death in 2015. Ironically Dec 25th! A bad day when a great mind like hers is silenced.

[@Tomorrow32]

They killed her???

[@b747guy9]

@@Tomorrow32 No, I'm pretty sure it was breast cancer than killed her. Some type of cancer anyway.

[@Smiles2U4Ever]

I just learned she died. I'm so f**cking bummed now.

[@matthewperry5121]

Makes more sense than what anybody else says

[@My-Say]

Author: Have you considered debating this so we can test this against other Bible scholars for the idea Jesus was not invented? I would be extremely interested in such a debate.

[@inquisitor4635]

Michael S. Heiser would have been perfect for such a debate. As he is an accomplished scholar and obliterated Zecharia Sitchin and his ancient astronaut theory.

[@rhabdob3895]

Not me. Sounds like to group of different snobs jerking off at each other.

[@spiritualtruth1354]

You dont need a so called bible scholar.... nobody in the bible..New Testament was a scholar!!(WONDER WHY?) try any competent person with real relationship with GOD and knows the bible.. will do easy ..jezzzz ppl sad FOOLISHNES here!

[@3rebornxd]

Dr. Carrier says this book is not scholarly, so I doubt he would want to debate this. I think the book does offer a viable perspective. No scholarship is perfect.

[@HughJaxident67]

@@spiritualtruth1354 *try any competent person with real relationship with GOD* If you think you have a relationship with a fictional deity, then you cannot describe yourself as 'competent'. I'd suggest delusional is the word you're looking for.

[@IndependentFckr]

Would be nice if they explained in detail but they are just preaching to each other the things they already know and agree upon. Explain to us lay-people please

[@eaglezapper9366]

I was so intrigued, that I sent for his book..Cesar's Messiah. A good read, and well written but still reading

[@johnpelosi4117]

D.M. Murdock is a Hero Scholar, her work is revolutionary , a Beacon of freedom!

[@benjamintrevino325]

2,000+ years and Christianity is still just a conversation starter.

[@imbored1143]

acharya s ❤

[@evd3157]

Absolutely remarkable!

[@TorahisLifeandLight]

DID YOU KNOW? We the Jews from 30AD always despised the Roman Empire with their paganism. From 40AD-325AD, Sephardic Jews never agreed with the Roman's Religion who embraced the embraced our "faith" and paganized it with their sun god worship. Many believers who were followers of the Hebrew Messiah were persecuted by the Roman emperors and so called "founding fathers" of Christianity. I am so glad Mr. Joe Atwill was able to exposed this information because he as an academic figure..is not viewed as if We the Jews expose it. We were persecuted at all times when we tried to expose the deception and paganism of Christianity. See the Expulsion of the Sephardic Jews in 1492 to 1497 from Spain and Portugal... Not only we had the Roman Empire breathing on our necks trying to get rid of our faith but also tried to exterminate us as an ethnic group. See the Jewish Wars from 70AD to 133AD. BUT in 1492 we had the monarchs ruling class of Spain and Portugal also doing the same to us from 300AD to 484AD and the monarchs stopped because ISLAM came to Spain. Later the Monarchs tried again in 700AD, then ISLAM FOUGHT BACK AND THE MONARCHS BACKED OFF. Until 1492 , they tried again. .Everywhere we went , we the pagans trying to silents us because we the truth about their paganism and deception. I will share this video and others i found from others people basically adding more evidence of what a FRAUD is "Christianity". People need to realize if they want to adopt the faith of the Jews , the real faith, they need to abandon the paganism of Christianity. Hopefully they can at least worship God the way we do it a we have been doing it for 3500 years. WATCH MY VIDEOS TO FIND OUT ABOUT THE REAL HEBREW MESSIAH

[@i.kaminskiy7563]

that was truly great conversation

[@charlescarter2072]

Agnostic New Testament scholar Bart D. Ehrman wrote in his Did Jesus Exist?: The Historical Argument for Jesus of Nazareth that "all of Acharya's major points are in fact wrong" and her book "is filled with so many factual errors and outlandish assertions that it is hard to believe the author is serious".

[@scottgoulette8900]

So what if Ehrman disagrees, personally I find Atwill's theory much more plausible and it has gained traction since the book was first published.

[@imbored1143]

bart is a money maker thats why he gets all his books published

[@Grayraven777]

Bart teaches at a Christian school... so yah, of course he has to go with the historical view, he doesn't believe the gospel are true, but he thinks Jesus was a real guy, and that's just so that he can keep teaching.

[@Youtube304s]

​@Grayraven777 he doesn't need Jesus to be real, to keep teaching. What a dumb comment. Try again.

[@maxincountrywerks]

That’s just the opinion of one loser with fake credentials. What do YOU think? That’s the only thing that matters.

[@SuperTaper1]

Actually,, the flavian family was named the Piso's ...Calpurnious Piso, Arius Piso was the main characters in the New testament penman-ship of that whole text of 27 books, called the New Testament..He is the one under different name or aliases,, that along with many of the Piso family members that wrote that book NT...they actually plagiarized the Old Testament..and used the texts taken from the destruction of the temple and created a new religion called..much later Christianity..,the first book written was Mark,,,they put Mathew first,,..they put those names on the gospels, those men never really existed,,Mathew, Mark, Luke and John,,, (All those gospels were written after 75 AD,, ) the Piso's played those men,, in the Christian play,, like a theatrical play... then inserted them back in history as if they happen from 3 AD to 70 AD...

[@mildreddavis1684]

Watch some of Bill Donahue's "Hidden Meanings" videos/presentations on KZbin There are so many layers of knowledge and meanings in the verses. When you learn the meanings of scripture - it is amazing

[@zephanaiahpatricklauesipap9290]

Then tell me why Nero persecuted Christians around 60 A.D

[@nororncluber6237]

well publishing companies are still controlled by the rich and powerful with agendas. nothing changed. just different day and different agenda.

[@aliAhmed-zq1tg]

I once read in the epistles attached to the gospels this verse I think by someone called Saint Paul: " to declare a crucified Christ, the Greeks say it is foolish and it is s stumbling block to the Jews " So Paul apparently was going against the grain of both groups that was surrounding him. He knew that The Greeks will understand that allegorically and that the Jews were expecting an EARTHLY Christ that would redeem them from oppressive empires. Was the crucified Christ his CONCOCTION or was he fulfilling a prophecy.

[@mercedm87]

Fulfilling a Jewish prophesy!

[@hippopotamus6765]

Mega jay, there is NO contemporary account of Nero murdering Christians. This interpolation is thought to be a 3rd century construction. The first authentic Roman mention of Christians is Pliny's letter to Trajan asking for advice on how to deal with them. They were a largely unknown small group at that time circa 112AD.

[@LuisSuarez14690]

Please dont comfuse mythology with Greek religion.Greeks never believed Hercules existed.Even today some celebrate the birth of Hercules Sun in December 25th and the three days static sun wich is called the triesperon.(three evenings).Greek religion had also nothing to do with after life issues.These were philosophical issues.Greeks only worshiped life and natures work.The Gods were entities that obeyed natural laws and were the powers that kept things together and going.Nothing more nothing less,No priest knew any one and only eternal truth ,no revelations to anyone.And this is one of the key factors for democracy to occur''This world,the same for everyone was made by no man or God,but was always and will be a for ever fire that lights on and out with rythm'' Heracletus

[@JlkKlj321]

Awesome broadcast 👍🏽❕❕❕

[@robinbreeds9217]

Thank you for teaching so many

[@jimtruscott5670]

In order to understand that “ Jesus” was a fictional character in a mythological context it is sufficient to read the gospels and critique what they say.

[@TorahisLifeandLight]

We the Jews from 30AD always despised the Roman Empire with their paganism. From 40AD-325AD, Sephardic Jews never agreed with the Roman's Religion who embraced the embraced our "faith" and paganized it with their sun god worship. Many believers who were followers of the Hebrew Messiah were persecuted by the Roman emperors and so called "founding fathers" of Christianity. I am so glad Mr. Joe Atwill was able to exposed this information because he as an academic figure..is not viewed as if We the Jews expose it. We were persecuted at all times when we tried to expose the deception and paganism of Christianity. See the Expulsion of the Sephardic Jews in 1492 to 1497 from Spain and Portugal... Not only we had the Roman Empire breathing on our necks trying to get rid of our faith but also tried to exterminate us as an ethnic group. See the Jewish Wars from 70AD to 133AD. BUT in 1492 we had the monarchs ruling class of Spain and Portugal also doing the same to us from 300AD to 484AD and the monarchs stopped because ISLAM came to Spain. Later the Monarchs tried again in 700AD, then ISLAM FOUGHT BACK AND THE MONARCHS BACKED OFF. Until 1492 , they tried again. .Everywhere we went , we the pagans trying to silents us because we the truth about their paganism and deception. I will share this video and others i found from others people basically adding more evidence of what a FRAUD is "Christianity". People need to realize if they want to adopt the faith of the Jews , the real faith, they need to abandon the paganism of Christianity. Hopefully they can at least worship God the way we do it a we have been doing it for 3500 years. WATCH MY VIDEOS TO FIND OUT ABOUT THE REAL HEBREW MESSIAH

[@Mrch33ky]

Yas. The Bible is one big myth. If it's meaningful to you, huzzah. If it isn't then pick another. No shortage of myths here on the Earth Planet. Would be nice if you could avoid beheading/drone striking each other over the myths you choose.

[@mi55eros]

A veeeery juicy conversation for those who can read between lines .... Thanks ...

[@hypnotix_2000]

Another dear hero! RIP Achariya...

[@MonikaEscobar1965]

The Welsh Royal House of Coel Hen ist familiar related to the Flavians. Christianity was founded in Wales in 35 A.D.

[@joefloine2000]

Please can anyone help with the full version of this discussion... This is Enlightening....

[@rhondadenis3469]

If I were you I would read “ Caesar’s Messiah: how the Roman’s invented Jesus”

[@gems34]

Imagine if today, only the rich and powerful could publish. They would do the same and worse, God knows they still trying dam hard!

[@lhughes597]

Glad I am a sun worshipper an Egyptian sun worshipper I've followed not Christianity

[@Hercules2345]

A very fascinating conversation! I'll need to get the DVD to hear the rest.

[@trevorMT]

She is brilliant

[@Vizor88]

She is so brilliant she is stupid. Unsaved. headed for the eternal lake of fire.

[@arriuscalpurniuspiso]

​@@Vizor88such a Christian love you express. You want people to suffer

[@namispondjamispond9282]

I've read comment that Richard Carrier has debunked Caesers Messiah yet I can find no evidence of that. Also, if anyone is debunking Caesers Messiah, they are debunking 7or 8 incredible religious scholars who are all basically saying the same thing. That's got to be some ego!!

[@arriuscalpurniuspiso]

Carrier openly said he never read CM, but he wrote a lengthy critique of the book

[@hailegripshealthfitnessmil7270]

Acharya is the Harriet Tubman of Skepticism and Critical Thinking! One Love to Acharya S.!

[@toddreinhardt8979]

?? What are you talking about? She clearly states that she agrees with him. If someone just reads this thread and does not watch the video, be warned, the comment made by Hercules 2345 is not true. I don't know what prompted him to say it. Watch the video and see where she clearly agrees with Atwill... and she features prominently in his movie/documentary.

[@finitewonder4978]

When an atheist can disprove: From the dust you were taken and to the dust you shall return" I convert to human wisdom.

[@thorpenator9148]

Dust in the wind...all we are is dust in the wind. It didn't take much to see that everything breaks down and turns back to mother earth.

[@fly4life393]

Strange to have split screen, are they not sitting right next to each other?

[@plasmaplasmajohndoe5012]

is that really an important point that you have taken away from this? blessings

[@davidwheeler1985]

@@plasmaplasmajohndoe5012 bless them bless you ☺

[@lindseyjohn4789]

So Joseph Atwill "thinks, but he or Achary really don't know what happen"!

[@Hercules2345]

Ever considered the "lake of fire" might be the SUN? Same with Moses "eternal burning bush." Read, 'Yahweh and the Sun: Biblical and Archaeological Evidence for Sun Worship in Ancient Israel' by well-known Biblical Scholar Rev. Dr. J. Glen Taylor

[@TorahisLifeandLight]

DID YOU KNOW? We the Jews from 30AD always despised the Roman Empire with their paganism. From 40AD-325AD, Sephardic Jews never agreed with the Roman's Religion who embraced the embraced our "faith" and paganized it with their sun god worship. Many believers who were followers of the Hebrew Messiah were persecuted by the Roman emperors and so called "founding fathers" of Christianity. I am so glad Mr. Joe Atwill was able to exposed this information because he as an academic figure..is not viewed as if We the Jews expose it. We were persecuted at all times when we tried to expose the deception and paganism of Christianity. See the Expulsion of the Sephardic Jews in 1492 to 1497 from Spain and Portugal... Not only we had the Roman Empire breathing on our necks trying to get rid of our faith but also tried to exterminate us as an ethnic group. See the Jewish Wars from 70AD to 133AD. BUT in 1492 we had the monarchs ruling class of Spain and Portugal also doing the same to us from 300AD to 484AD and the monarchs stopped because ISLAM came to Spain. Later the Monarchs tried again in 700AD, then ISLAM FOUGHT BACK AND THE MONARCHS BACKED OFF. Until 1492 , they tried again. .Everywhere we went , we the pagans trying to silents us because we the truth about their paganism and deception. I will share this video and others i found from others people basically adding more evidence of what a FRAUD is "Christianity". People need to realize if they want to adopt the faith of the Jews , the real faith, they need to abandon the paganism of Christianity. Hopefully they can at least worship God the way we do it a we have been doing it for 3500 years. WATCH MY VIDEOS TO FIND OUT ABOUT THE REAL HEBREW MESSIAH

[@davidsolowan4111]

Excellent observation i love and live for ultimate truth, i challenge you now to show the original connection of Free Masonry from Egypt , i found it, in some 300 year old obscure history books originally from Egypt. first clue ..Phre-May-Sons the Pharaohs house was called [ The white house ]

[@jeanette5223]

What’s the name of the book

[@namispondjamispond9282]

Watch Bill Donahue Hidden Meanings videos. The greatest teacher on the Bible ever, and way way ahead of his time.

[@forthepotentates7526]

Are you taking about the Book of the Earth and the Book of the Dead? Which book are you specifically talking about? Thanks in advance

[@davidsolowan4111]

@@jeanette5223 Anacalypsis volume 2 is one the other is a very historical book written in 1600s.

[@davidsolowan4111]

@@forthepotentates7526 Anacalypsis volume 2 ,,the other is a book written in the 1600s.

[@namispondjamispond9282]

My God these 2 are amazing. Oh how I would love to be that intelligent!!

[@tweedconstruction]

Yea, that's some shit to aspire to.

[@namispondjamispond9282]

@@tweedconstruction If you want to see intelligence, Check out Bill Donahue Hidden Meanings videos. The man is amazing!

[@TorahisLifeandLight]

DID YOU KNOW? We the Jews from 30AD always despised the Roman Empire with their paganism. From 40AD-325AD, Sephardic Jews never agreed with the Roman's Religion who embraced the embraced our "faith" and paganized it with their sun god worship. Many believers who were followers of the Hebrew Messiah were persecuted by the Roman emperors and so called "founding fathers" of Christianity. I am so glad Mr. Joe Atwill was able to exposed this information because he as an academic figure..is not viewed as if We the Jews expose it. We were persecuted at all times when we tried to expose the deception and paganism of Christianity. See the Expulsion of the Sephardic Jews in 1492 to 1497 from Spain and Portugal... Not only we had the Roman Empire breathing on our necks trying to get rid of our faith but also tried to exterminate us as an ethnic group. See the Jewish Wars from 70AD to 133AD. BUT in 1492 we had the monarchs ruling class of Spain and Portugal also doing the same to us from 300AD to 484AD and the monarchs stopped because ISLAM came to Spain. Later the Monarchs tried again in 700AD, then ISLAM FOUGHT BACK AND THE MONARCHS BACKED OFF. Until 1492 , they tried again. .Everywhere we went , we the pagans trying to silents us because we the truth about their paganism and deception. I will share this video and others i found from others people basically adding more evidence of what a FRAUD is "Christianity". People need to realize if they want to adopt the faith of the Jews , the real faith, they need to abandon the paganism of Christianity. Hopefully they can at least worship God the way we do it a we have been doing it for 3500 years. WATCH MY VIDEOS TO FIND OUT ABOUT THE REAL HEBREW MESSIAH

[@zacharygonzales9452]

I love you Acharya!...you are definately the learned person!...

[@YourAscents]

In A.D. 95 Clement of Rome cited words found in Matthew. Around A.D. 110 Ignatius alludes to Matthew and John, and quoted Luke 24:39 (a crucial text on the resurrection of Christ). Polycarp, a disciple of John the apostle cites the synoptic gospels as authentic. The Epistle of Barnabas (135) quotes Matthew. Papias (125 and following) speaks of Matthew and Mark writing Gospels saying three times that Mark made no errors. The Shepard of Hermas alludes to Luke, Matthew, and John.

[@KenRubenstein]

2 very great people, right here....

[@Mheprai]

Too bad she passed. These questions have been answered in the research and book called 'We the Skythians - The Lie of the land of Aegypt'. The geography of history was changed. You will be amazed by whom. The level of detail of Atwill and Murdock would only strengthen the evidence.

[@aliAhmed-zq1tg]

There is a verse in the new TESTAMENT found in the LETTERS OF PAUL that says: " to DECLARE A CRUCIFIED MESSIAH is both FOLLY TO THE ROMANS AND A STUMBLING BLOCK TO THE JEWS " Let's ponder this VERSE and DECODE IT. I haven't read much scholarship on this JEWEL OF A VERSE!!!!

[@TheGizmoskate]

peace and wisdom!

[@mythicgorilla3610]

I watched a little of Santos' lecture and it honestly looked like he was making stuff up and grasping at straws. He would take a word and put it on a coordinate plane representing astrological ages, and then he would reverse it and rewrite it until it meant something he wanted it to. I found it to be slightly intriguing, but overall disingenuous, and completely lacking in empirical evidence. Basically it looked like he was pulling it out of his arse. Perhaps you have a different opinion though.

[@hkrainman]

Understand the difference between Hijacking a real religion and inventing one!

[@Mrch33ky]

A real religion? Do tell, what is a real religion....?

[@boblackey1]

I'm not plucking anything out of Carrier that I WISH TO BE TRUE! Carrier is saying these things NOT me. In a recent interview here on KZbin, Carrier tells they guy he does NOT agree with the few jesus mythers that Nazareth didn't exist. Carrier offers proof. This new book does not PROVE anything. It is just an opinion. As Robert Price said "Until some new evidence is found, it is impossible to know if Jesus did or did not exist with certainty. Personally I doubt it's historical."

[@lodenco691]

Not in His Image by John Lamb Lash is an excellent read regarding the Gnostics, Pagans and mystery schools.

[@namispondjamispond9282]

Check out Bill Donahue Hidden Meanings videos. The greatest teacher you will find on the Bible and way way ahead of his time. Ps careful not to get Bill Donahue mixed up with Bill DonOhue. Similar names but complete opposites.

[@cognatoralbertl9366]

I used to be a catholic and all I can say is I read the book and "right on, right on, right on".

[@katerinab474]

I wonder why it is written in Roman records that TIBERIUS CEASEAR put to death Jewish priest after heard a case by Mary Magdalen in Rome. She accused the Priests of the Temple ANNAS & CAIAPHAS of wrongly executing her friend Jesus son of Mariam ... Tiberius Caesar believed her story because of the darkness and the great earthquake that happened when Jesus died , as he had recorded the time, day and month when it happened, it proved to be at that time . This case is Written in the great SYNAXARISTES documents .

[@plasmaplasmajohndoe5012]

have a merry flaviusmas 2 all! blessings 2 all beings!

[@ELJason2006]

I am extremely sympathetic to this hypothesis but these speakers seem to skip over the Septugant that was translated in 300 BCE. So the Roman word had knowledge of the scriptures before the sack of Jerusalem.

[@tweedconstruction]

Thank you for giving up your rewards for lesser folk like us.

[@381MEDALLION]

This is great information. I'm just frustrated with the whole premise of Christian education. Why don't they teach this in the church? The Jews know Jesus was a myth, a lie. When will the church leaders accept the truth???

[@aliAhmed-zq1tg]

Even Amy Jill Levine( a crazy jewish theologian) once NOTICED that if a person wears the lenses of the Old testament he/ she will quickly NOT SEE that The Christian Messiah is the jewish Messiah. She also once stated that Christianity as a movement started as a consequence of the second destruction of the temple. She also once warned Christians or the vast majority of Christians to read the GOSPELS antijewishly. She also NOTICED that the who purpose of the gospels is for it to show Jews and Judaism in a negative light. Shmuely Boteach also NOTICED that Christians have noticed the Gospels have a pro-Roman bias.

[@geraldbrienza4474]

If DM gives Atwell some “props” here, I need to give it a second look.

[@namispondjamispond9282]

She is in his documentary Caesers Messiah. It's quite obvious they are fans of each other.

[@geraldbrienza4474]

Namispond Jamispond : DM is awesome (RIP.) the Caesar thing is credible, certainly as good as other theories. The mythacist position seems the most logical to me in any event.

[@namispondjamispond9282]

@@geraldbrienza4474 You should check out Bill Donahue Hidden Meanings videos. He's probably the greatest teacher ever on the Bible and way way ahead of his time.

[@geraldbrienza4474]

Namispond Jamispond : Donahue is a Christian apologist. He uses word salad and subjective interpretation to explain nonsense to anyone ignorant enough to fall for it. . Remember, your religion today is tomorrow’s mythology.

[@namispondjamispond9282]

@@geraldbrienza4474 I hope you're not getting Bill Donahue mixed up with Bill DonOhue. Bill DonAhue is one of the most intelligent men you will ever come across, and if you look in his comments section you will barely find a negative comment about him. Also, anytime anyone has tried to disprove him, he comes straight back with the evidence. If you can't see the brilliance in Bill DonAhue then I'm sorry that's your problem.

[@akiliszuraris3170]

The Greeks they are the first people that celebrate the Gods and festivals for them,not for people. They made Olimpike Games. That means that they put above them some powerful Gods like Eros,Wisdom,Statue. They were respectful about some Natural forces and celebrated. They weren't Atheist. Religion people purposely identify them Atheists! Isn't true that God of Wisdom the most powerful that brought Western Civilization?

[@markspurgeon5646]

Check out "Age Of The Storm" KZbin channel if you're interested in the astrological origins of the Bible (astrotheology) and want to expand on your knowledge. Many areas are covered, from Ezekiel's vision and Daniel 7, to the real code in the last supper, Jesus's (sun's) birthday on September 11th (9/11), Noah and the flood and the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse... are actually constellations.

[@YourAscents]

Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. Justin Martyr was a philosopher. There is plenty of Christian lit in the 2nd Century that presupposes the existence of the Gospels. For one, Papias talks about how John's Gospel was recorded. The Gospels of the Nazoraeans and the Hebrews presuppose Matthew.

[@theforestero]

3:51 that's a beautiful painting, red, but still nice

[@useyourbrain1538]

The whole idea of jesus doesn't make sense from trinity, to death on cross etc.... Why God came only in that period, what happened to the people before him. And those who never saw him. To believe in jesus story means i would eliminate my thinking completely...which doesn't make sense at all

[@Hercules2345]

'Absence of evidence' most certainly is 'evidence of absence' - at least until valid evidence is presented, which has not happened in 2,000 years. The fact remains that nobody ever mentioned the 4 gospels by name until around 180ce when Irenaeus wrote "Against Heresy." That is the first mention of all 4 gospels by name. Other Christians living around 150 never mention them as if they didn't exist.

[@fredfarmer5952]

... have you factored in that there were no people known as Jews, Greeks, nor Romans until after the 13th Egyptian Dynasty? For instance, the 10 Commandments clearly came from the The "42 Laws of Ma’at - Negative Confessions" of Egyptian spirituality. "The most famous list comes from The Papyrus of Ani. This is a text of The Egyptian Book of the Dead, prepared for the priest Ani of Thebes (c. 1250 BCE)."