Jet Set RAF Tornado GR4 OCU Course - 15 R) Sqn

[@notmenotme614]

32:29 "Congratulations you're getting sent 521 miles away from your home" Wife: 😥 That wasn't awkward. Much.

[@johnvega5836]

Incredible the amount of hard work needed to achieve that position. These men (and women) are truly amazing aviators!

[@richardgeorge8612]

just wondered why you put the word women in brackets

[@pw191164]

Because there wasn't any!

[@brianfearn4246]

Absolutely fabulous.. RAF Marham.. Will always be remembered for the victor tanker.. it was brilliant watching those big birds getting airborne..

[@mikey1975037]

Well said josh rich boys get everything. The military refused to train one of my mates...so became a tank commander. .but when he came out of service he paid to be a helicopter pilot-turbine licence. Now very successful commercial pilot in Oz.

[@betafoofoo270]

Why did they refuse, they generally have a good reason?

[@notmenotme614]

Same with a mate of mine. He didn't become a pilot in the RAF, so he paid for all his own flight training and is now an airline pilot. Ironically these RAF pilots wouldn't be qualified to fly an airliner. And most train for my mates airline job when they leave the RAF.

[@jockcop4205]

@@notmenotme614 so what your saying is they can do fast jets and airliners and your mate could only cut it in airliners?

[@notmenotme614]

@@jockcop4205 No I’m saying the military didn’t want him as a pilot, but he still became a pilot anyway for an airline.

[@jockcop4205]

@@notmenotme614 military flying and airline flying are two different skill sets. Just because he became an airline pilot doesn’t mean he could have hacked it as military one. Lots of people who get rejected by the military go on to civilian aviation.

[@AVMamfortas]

Excellent. Back in the day when I was a fast-jet base ATCO we didn't have the insights provided by a TV program. We 'made do' with the tales and comeraderie in the bar. But 'our' jocks were the tops. I worked very closely with Lightnings on several tours and the fabulous Buccs of 12 sqn. - they even had my face on the nacelles :) Nothing could replace a Bucc.... except another Bucc.

[@allandavis8201]

A.M. Fortas, I doubt yo will ever read this, after all your comment was 6 years ago, but, I spent 4 miserable years on the Tonka Toy, it was a pain in the backside to work on, especially after some heavy handed jockey had bust a switch and proceeded to drop it in the cockpit, conversely I spent a total of 12 years on “choppers” and had the best years of my long and varied career of 24 years as a “rigger”, none of the holier than thou jockey attitude, a fantastic working relationship between the crews and engineers, all in the same boat (sometimes literally) but mostly in tents ⛺️, we worked hard and played hard, travelling to very distant and isolated parts being thrown around in the back, no “samsonite airways” no hotels, very rarely got rates, and meals varied between “honkers stew” and “pie and chips” if we were lucky, and if we didn’t have a bit of kit we made do and carried on, couldn’t nip to stores and get a new one, real engineering, not plug a test kit in and get given a fix for the snag, best years of my life.

[@watson946]

@@allandavis8201 I was a rigger on Canberras, Pumas, Harriers and Tornados, I enjoyed the challenges of maintaining all of those aircraft. Of all the aircraft the Pumas were easiest to maintain, no real fault diagnosis as such, maybe the odd rotor tuning faff, but that was it. I guess I enjoyed maintaining Harriers the most.

[@dadmadforgot4050]

These pilots are just incredible people. Amazing how competent some people can be!!

[@draper461]

thanks for this video, my son wants to be a RAF pilot, very interesting to see the training.

[@bluesrocker91]

Try to find the Combat Pilot documentary too. It focuses on the Hawk training and selection process at RAF Valley.

[@Aeronaut1975]

So, 5 years on, did he have any luck?

[@leew8812]

@@Aeronaut1975 no, he's only 10

[@nigelbenn4642]

Everything's coming up Millhouse!

[@2sqnbandit379]

I served on this sqn at Lossie 20 years ago. Colin Magregor the brother of ewen the Actor was a jockey on our sqn. I used to open the batting with him in the cricket team. Great days. I wonder if the Clifton and the scary bre is still open. Some cracking nights out there. 😂

[@adamberndt4190]

I'm an American and didn't understand a single thing you just said! Lol American's and Brit's are the only ones that speak the same language yet suffer from language barriers...

[@2sqnbandit379]

@@adamberndt4190 😂😂😂 jockey=Pilot open the batting= I played cricket which is like baseball, the scary bre was a pub. I actually went out with a few usaf pilots, F15’s for drinks in Scotland. Brilliant. We have a great relationship working together. Banter is awesome. The F15 by the way is an incredible aircraft. Best aircraft I’ve ever seen.

[@leew8812]

You mean the Skerry Brae, surely?

[@2sqnbandit379]

@@leew8812 yeah 😂😂😂 that’s it.

[@QuIcKScOpInGLoRd]

That gav guy is now a red arrows pilot

[@lukesherrard8034]

I noticed that! On that program called red arrows inside the bubble right?

[@QuIcKScOpInGLoRd]

yeah !

[@planejunky]

That's a fair point mate. The Tonka has done us proud over the years, Iraq '91, Serbia '99, Iraq (again) '03 and still soldiers on in Afghanistan today flying a role that was barely envisaged in the early 1980's while waiting to take out WarPac airfields.

[@yakacm]

I didn't realise that these were still in service, I remember playing the ZX Spectrum game TLL (Tornado Low Level) in 1982!

[@sah1681]

Good old days 😊 Today is just not the same 😞

[@garethjones1827]

Great to watch. Video sound 'freezing' frustrating towards the end..

[@Nickshark1982]

Mcgregor the bloke narrating this doco has a brother and he is a Tornado pilot.

[@NiceGuyEddie397]

Nick Shark his brother Colin was a Navigator. Don't believe his own hype, or the wiki page.

[@Joegoesflying]

@@NiceGuyEddie397 Colin started as a nav, became a pilot flying the gr4

[@The_Unintelligent_Speculator]

I love the Tornado F3

[@lowlevelRAF]

The F3 was good, but I’ve got a soft spot for the GR4

[@keegan773]

Things have moved on a bit since the Link trainers at R.A.F. Oakington.

[@bbking0064]

There is a similar series called Jetstream about rookie pilots training on the F/A-18 in the Canadian airforce. There are eight episodes and gives more of an insight than this condensed version.

[@davidbarrett1487]

I enjoyed the video, my god real hard work to achieve a dream, I can imagine how hard the courses are, when you think they’ve already done HAWK training, at the end I can imagine they are very good frontline fighter/ bomber pilots, extremely good, we didn’t see it all for obvious reasons.👍👍👍SUPERB RAF.🇬🇧

[@carrma3831]

Man I've been in all of those rooms with Cadets on camp in 2016 and sat at Tain while they did 20mm Mauser Cannon strafes. Good times, too bad 15Sqn are gone

[@leew8812]

27mm

[@JeffGR4]

Specifically, documentary is from the year 2009.

[@graemedavis9264]

Cheers Matt been looking for this

[@Aydarrn]

I wish they make a new one of these for the typhoon or f35

[@lowlevelRAF]

They did sort of for the F-35. ITV follow students through the Hawk T2 course at RAF Valley but it also covered F-35B training when it was still being done stateside. RAF Pilot Training for the F-35 is now all done in the UK. The ITV series was called 'Fighter Pilot: The Real Top Gun' and I think it's on KZbin.

[@forsdykemontague1017]

Wonder whether Gav Fryer was the Sqn Ldr who banged out in the U.S ??

[@torquilmacleod2577]

24:53 "The bombing range is in Tain, Sutherland" Tain is in Easter Ross, nae Sutherland

[@lowlevelRAF]

Think they were on about the Tornado GR4 itself, not the Tornado as a whole regarding its combat debut :)

[@johnnunn8688]

lowlevelRAF, yep, GR1 there in ‘91.

[@forsdykemontague1017]

2 years at Valley ! Do they fly once a month 😂

[@Willysmb44]

Great video, thank you for posting this.

[@andyb.1026]

THALES , a French electronics Co, Teaching the RAF ?? I worked for both

[@lowlevelRAF]

Not quite, Ex-RAF Tornado crews were teaching the student pilots, the sim was created/ran by THALES UK

[@stevewyatt9546]

Kick the tyres and light the fires!... Thanks for sharing

[@ngamo52Nick]

It takes 4-5 years of training before a pilot reaches a frontline jet fighter squadron in the RAF. In the USAF it's a lot sooner for example; Phase 1: IOT 9wks, Phase 2: IFS DA 20 Katana/Cessna 172 5wks 25hrs, Phase 3: GTS 4wks, Phase 4: T-6 Texan II 22wks 90hrs, Phase 5: T-38C Talon 24wks 120hrs then Wings. Phase 6: Weapons Phase: AT-38C Talon 10wks 50hrs, Phase 7: OCU/FTU 16wks 60-70hrs F-15, F-16 etc. Time taken to reach an operational squadron in the USAF about 2 - 2.5 years. If the Yanks can train their guys in less time to reach a front line operational jet fighter squadron why can't the Brits?

[@lowlevelRAF]

Ngamoko Nikora Ngamoko Nikora Ngamoko Nikora The USAF have alot more aircraft and training units, compared to the RAF. However, the RAF also train more things at each stage. This makes the training longer but also identifies pilots abilities to instructors. At Elementary Flight Training, first stage of flight training (after officer training), they fly the Grob Tutor T1 ( soon to be changed to Grob Perfect G120tp). At this point, QFI's are identifying which stream (fastjet, helicopter or multi engine) the student is more suitable for. The RAF also having trainned more at each point, it helps the pilot on OCU, plus on arrived art the frontline, they are already limited combat ready, if not fully, dependant on type. Both the RAF and USAF are among the best air forces in the world, so may have differences in training, but both do okay with their respective processes :)

[@ngamo52Nick]

Okay thanks a lot for the explanation it now helps to put things into perspective.

[@lowlevelRAF]

Rob H I get what you mean, but to be honest, the Typhoon is in my view the last real pilot aircraft for the RAF, plus can keep up with the F22 ;) Might not be stealth but can still track and engage the F22 & F35, as the cant hide there heat signture

[@daverecon7694]

lowlevelRAF Is have to disagree with the pilot ready comment. The Tornado is the last of the so called 'analogue' fast jet aircraft. The Typhoon is digital. The computer does a lot of the work, whereas the Tornado, the pilot and navy have to enter the information into her. Great video nonetheless 👍🏻

[@betafoofoo270]

Err not sure that is correct Dave.

[@KhaledAwni]

HOW MUCH IT COAST FOR ONE HOUR TRAINING TO FLY TORNADO AND HOW MUCH COAST ONE HOURE FLIGHT OF GR 4

[@1903chrisholden]

Are there any Tornado pilots / navs on here willing to sign prints / books?

[@kartoffelschloss6425]

I wish I could fly the tornado, but since I'm American I'll most likely fly f 15s if I do good.

[@Biggles2498]

What happens if a Student Flying Officer in the front seat of a Tornado does something wrong how does the Instructor or Navigator fly the aircraft if it can't be flown from the back seat..... Ejection ?

[@Joegoesflying]

Hi there, sorry this is so long after you asked but just found the video! There are 2 stickers for the basic pilot-pilot training sorties and any upgrades etc... once onto the pilot-wso sorties then there is a command ejection for real problems but otherwise the rear seater has no control. The pilot isn’t let loose until they are signed of as pilots in command. It is a really quick process but the sims and previous training makes a massive difference. Regards, Joe

[@Hollyhog123]

what year was this filmed?

[@lowlevelRAF]

@@Hollyhog123 It was about 2005-2006, you can see the aircrew wearing the 90th Anniversary XV (R) Sqn patches

[@deeremeyer1749]

How did those renamed MiG-29s cost that much? Was it the English operators and repair manuals that cost so much or do they come with ride-along translators?

[@davecashjowa1236]

I can’t help but think that the narrator is Ewan mcgregor

[@planesstevee]

why does he have an f15 in his office at 37.00 ?? I would have a tornado or typhoon

[@charliep1973]

Probably did an exchange tour or was given it by an exchange instructor.

[@Biggles2498]

I note that some of The Navigators have "Crowns" above their Navigators' Brevet ....do NCO's get a "Crown" above their Air Engineers' Brevet or Load Master Brevet for that matter ?

[@planejunky]

Operation Granby gone but not forg.... oh ok then it's now forgotten. =( =( Shame they forgot the fact that the Tornado had it's combat debut over Iraq in 1991, not 2003!!!

[@mrj3795]

historic flight? I think so.

[@vTROPICALZ]

currently I am taking a course of becoming a pilot.

[@skipsassy1]

I would like to see those that don't make it? Do they go to cargo jets?

[@navnig]

They might not even get to fly those! Often they end up in office posts.

[@bluesrocker91]

Yes, if they fail they are doomed to forever fly cargo planes of rubber dog shit out of Hong Kong.

[@MartinKillips]

I was a fighter pilot in the RAF back in 1979 until the early 1980s and knew guys that got chopped before they got their wings and ended up in desk jobs. Some, if they fail on a fighter end up multi-engine pilots (back then that meant Hercules transport planes usually) or even helicopter pilots.

[@Biggles2498]

If they are lucky they end up in Transport Command flying C130's or other Multi Engine Buses !

[@andreinarangel6227]

How that "low-level" RAF tactic worked in Desert Storm? Not bloody well, eh!!!!

[@billscott6315]

Actually, it did. Bear in mind that low level was the only option for delivering JP233.

[@mjames2117]

US Patriot missiles targeting Tornados didn't help.. useless lot those Yanks

[@Ken_oh545]

​@billscott6315 ah yes the JP233 for Runway Denial - 30 x 57lb explosives to damage a runway surface and 215 anti-personnel mines to complicate the repair process. Definitely not a cluster bomb (illegal by international treaty) always wondered who came up with that specific designation for essentially an illegal weapon. (Convention on Cluster Munitions of 2008). Some clever chaps around eh?

[@ToonandBBfan]

Can someone tell Ewan Mcgregor its a TORNADO not a "Tunado" LOL

[@wd5585]

ToonandBBfan You just told him. No one has to now.

[@martf8014]

Shut up dickhead

[@dangerouswater]

I knew Liam would have been better…

[@Hirundo155]

For Sam, RIP

[@Viceto100]

why didn't they do the centrifuge test ?

[@speeddemongaming9941]

They already know what G force feels like, they've been flying hawks for the past two years XD

[@jameschester3312]

unlike places like canada, Australia and UK do a lot of their combat training in fighter trainers called hawks. I know for sure that aussies do their basic air-to-air and air-to-ground training in this plane before converting to either F/A-18A 'classic' hornets or F/A-18F Super Hornets, and then all they do while in the hornet and super hornet training squadron is become familiar with the jet (not 100% sure, just calling on what i've read)

[@JeffGR4]

Grueling, incredibly competitive -- must have brawn, brains, and guts.

[@MartinKillips]

You're spot on. I left the RAF in 1983 and I have never since had to work so hard as I did when I was doing my officer training and then my flying training back then.

[@raymondable007]

great video

[@zak.s38]

What’s an administration job ?

[@dellx3048]

Desk job. Ground administration.

[@skipsassy1]

I don't think playing "rock" background helps at all.

[@Joooliuss]

Ewan Mcgregor?

[@cabbagesnuffler1449]

Hello there

[@fire5736]

Is that Ewan McGregor commentating?

[@lowlevelRAF]

Yes, his brother was a RAF Tornado Pilot

[@fire5736]

lowlevelRAF Ah, thanks very much.

[@richmcnab8925]

+lowlevelRAF He was a Nav I believe?

[@dwh2804]

No. Pilot

[@nh6central]

quote from 2002 story: "The fighter-pilot brother of actor Ewan McGregor has been promoted to senior officer of his squadron. Colin McGregor, 32, a top-gun pilot of Tornado fighter jets in RAF Lossiemouth, Moray, has moved from junior rank of Flight Lieutenant to Squadron Leader."

[@starfleethastanks]

Air Chief Marshal Kenobi!

[@mjspice100]

So do I have this right? If they fail they are taken off flight duties and reassigned to ground duties? Why are they not reassigned to a different type of aircraft? It seems a huge waste of time, money and training to just put them on ground duties..

[@lowlevelRAF]

Usually they'll be referred to different aircraft type or sometimes different stream so Multi-Engine or Helicopters. Alot has changed in terms of numbers now, with the Tornado now retired in RAF service leaving only 2x frontline fast jet types as of 2021 in the RAF.

[@mjspice100]

@@lowlevelRAF ok, that makes sense to me, thank you for replying..

[@redbaron9029]

John Peters & John Nichol......!

[@limasonil97]

I would hate to get that far, then end up at a adim posistion in the raf.

[@dominiccleans1811]

"Incredibly Realistic" lol.

[@fairclought7]

No python banter??

[@leegiles3672]

Alex crane... yes it is Ewan McGregor

[@Aviator1974]

i thought it was Ewan Mac. his bro is a tornado pilot(or should i say 'was' now they've been taken out of RAF service ) i bet there mum is proud!!! one son a major hollywood star and the other an RAF fighter pilot!!!

[@serverlan763]

They were quite a disappointment in the first gulf war. A few shot down..

[@lowlevelRAF]

Indeed, trying to use tactics really for the European theatre of the time in a different style of conflict. Sadly, they some accidents in the region on the run up to the conflict in ‘91 kicked off

[@serverlan763]

@@lowlevelRAF Such an awesome looking aircraft however. When i was in the cadets in NZ, one of our young officers had been selected for the RAF for pilot training, His dream was to fly Tornados. The perceived threat back then was the Mig 25 (he told us, that was before they had got their hands on one and worked out that they were quite primative) I wonder if he made it.

[@lowlevelRAF]

@@serverlan763 you never know that pilot may have. I know the Tornado and other RAF/NATO crews were concerned with the MIG-29 and Su-27 (when it appeared). There was lots of DACM for NATO forces with the Luftwaffe MIG-29’s they inherited from the East German Air Force, after the wall fell.

[@richardweldon2062]

This is now the story of tens of millions of pounds of taxpayers money that is now stuck in a museum.

[@janimakinen5828]

crew👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@elizabetharmada5335]

5 years training?really?

[@calloftheftauto6015]

yep first they go through 28 weeks on initial officer training then they do elementry flying training for 26 weeks flying the grob tutor then they move on to no1 flying school at RAF Linton upon Ouse where they fly the tucano for 40 weeks then they train on the hawk t2 for 30 weeks they then move on to the tornado ocu

[@MartinKillips]

As someone that joined the RAF in 1979, firstly to do my officer training and then basic flying training and then onto combat training in Jet Provosts and then onto an OCU (Operational Conversion Unit) to fly Tornados, I can assure you it takes that long to become a decent pilot. Doctors take at least five years to qualify before becoming qualified - why do you think it should be less for fighter pilots?

[@supernoddy13]

XV is honestly no where near as exciting as this haha

[@Rom-ju5tf]

Lol best flight sim in the world? The graphics look like microsoft flight sim 98

[@matthewentwistle4128]

+Rom 3636 it was probably the best at the time

[@carrma3831]

Seriously, you think it's about graphics? 😂😂😂 fucking hell man, it's about the systems and flight characteristics not the look of the aircraft. I sat in the old Tornado F3 one at RAF Leuchars during the 43 Squadron Families day when I was 4 (I'm 15 now) and my god it was brilliant

[@martf8014]

You tit.

[@DADDYDRAGONGIRL]

where are the black pilots smh

[@DADDYDRAGONGIRL]

YALL TWO ARE RACIST

[@jwaustinmunguy]

wayne hall Flying Typhoons?

[@richarddoe4374]

wayne hall b

[@wd5585]

wayne hall To thick.

[@XIXjlo]

They're all in a que behind your mum. hahaha.

[@debradry3465]

Stqt44

[@joshfredr7846]

a bunch of rich boys "promoted" to fly the jet.. should have asked who promoted them and why. maybe their rich ol` daddy had anything to do with it ?

[@charliep1973]

Complete rot. All the students on the course will have been there because they passed selection, and more selection, and officer training, and flying training, and more flying training and more flying training. Any failure to meet required standards at any point during their many courses would mean going no further (as I sadly know from experience).

[@billbailey1403]

Josh Fredr- You're obviously not a military pilot, else you'd know that money has nothing to do with it. The forces only use people who make the grade. As l told your comrade in arms earlier in the post, the only time money helps is when you don't make it in the military and have to pay, so allowing yourself to become a pilot.

[@betafoofoo270]

Wow, you got a chip on both shoulder to balance things out :)

[@MartinKillips]

What you say is completely untrue. I was a working class kid that was selected during the 3 day aircrew selection at RAF Biggin Hill in 1979. I went on to complete my officer training at RAF Cranwell and then on to eventually fly Tornados. I was one of many that were working class fighter pilots. So what you say is inaccurate. What I have found more common is working class lads I went to school with had an aversion to joining as an officer and preferred to join as NCOs - but then of course, they couldn't become pilots because the ruling was you had to be an officer to become a pilot. However, there was nothing to stop an NCO trying for his commission and then going on to his flying training.

[@Mike-br8zt]

@@MartinKillips and a few did just that.

[@samdugdale2627]

Gutted to see no women here!

[@allybally0021]

There will be on other courses.

[@richmcnab8925]

+Sam Dugdale several great female aircrew out there - www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/11335480/First-woman-to-command-an-RAF-fast-jet-squadron-named-as-Wing-Commander-Nikki-Thomas.html

[@charliep1973]

There's a female Nav at 40:16. Don't forget that not everybody necessarily wants to be seen on TV.

[@pw191164]

Sam Dugdale oh no! feminazi alert.

[@milesaharrison]

That's bollocks, she didn't say there should have been one, she said she was sad not to have seen one on this course. Fortunately for the airbourne amongst us, your poor attitude won't ever get people like you off the ground.

[@truthseekers666]

Not being horrible here but these pilots were woody on film. Fair enough Tv is hard to come across well on... but it looked bleak. UK MOD doesnt seem to have much dosh... old airbases... small rooms. This was about as far from Top Gun as you could get. Poor gun - might have been a better name. They didnt even fire real missiles or drop real bombs. They dropped concrete dummies. Wow. their flight simulators didnt have hydraulic actuators... so you didnt get a feel of what it was like to move the aircraft around. It was all static on the ground simulators. Might have just got them playstations eh Her Majesty? Commercial airliners sims all have hydraulics! MOD cheapskates to the max. I felt sorry for these pilots.

[@philipcolson5936]

Perhaps your used to watching American crap where everyone has to whoop and over react to every occasion?

[@alasdairmclaughlan8249]

Truthseeker, you need to do some research. Static trainers are as much if not more use for training than the motion sims you seem to think are widely available. The rooms in the officers mess at Valley and Lossiemouth are excellent quality, and far better than the USAF's approach to life. Not to mention the fact that the Mess, and life in the mess is intrinsic to what makes the RAF the force it is today. Fast Jet's today are systems based ac, you dont need to drop the real thing to know if you've actually done it properly. Even the mighty US uses practice bombs...

[@truthseekers666]

***** Indeed - I dont know why people want to do it... it aint glamorous... but the beer is subsidised.

[@truthseekers666]

Alasdair McLaughlan Fair points but the show still did make our airforce look like a few lads in a wimpey homes built training centre. What im trying to say is I wish they had better facilities - nicer looking, more professional. It certainly did look like the taxpayer was saving some pennies.

[@sailordoc2007]

..and yet they’ve managed to turn out some of the most professional aircrew in the world ..something works obviously

[@abes.4040]

The Tornado is around because first world countries now days don't have to deal with other equally equipped Air forces , just inadequately trained and maintained 3rd world countries. This plane, I mean, this school bus would not fare well in a real dogfight

[@TheDarwiniser]

+Abe S. Your ignorance about this plane makes me laugh, you total dumb fuck. Go read Michael Napiers book, Tornado Over The Tigris...... RAF Squadron Leader Napier, actually.... combat tested Tornado pilot. He knows what this plane could do when it was current.... you, clearly, do not. HAHAHAHAHAH

[@californiazephyr94]

+mandellorian Your right, I had to photograph a TP Course and after talking to one of the aircrew who was pleased because he got 5% confirmed hits on the banner. I asked 5%? he said well if we've to use the cannons on this thing then we've F-up and were really in the shit. Yes it isn't a dog fighter, even the canons fire downwards as it was designed as a ground attack aircraft.

[@jwaustinmunguy]

Shaun Waite Designed for nuclear strike/attack role during the Cold War. Germans may still use these at Buchel wher their B-61 bombs are stored.

[@mikey1975037]

Well said josh rich boys get everything. The military refused to train one of my mates...so became a tank commander. .but when he came out of service he paid to be a helicopter pilot-turbine licence. Now very successful commercial pilot in Oz.

[@billbailey1403]

Michael Cormack- Money has nothing to do with it. if the military refused to train him, then the reason was that he didn't make the grade, simple. The only time money counts is when someone has to pay for training because the military wouldn't accept them!