Jews Don’t Count by David Baddiel

★★★☆☆|☆☆
Looking forward to this video being ratioed by the white supremacists 💁‍♀️
Timestamps and links below the fold ↓
0:00 Intro
0:20 Summary
1:00 Being rich and white
2:30 What is racism
3:50 Everyday racism
4:05 Historic racism
4:56 Institutional racism
5:25 Ancestral allegiance
8:26 Goodbye
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[@stanlewis1093]

I enjoyed this review. However, I am confused as to why you consistently (throughout the video and the comments) refer to the actions of the Israeli state as a part of Jewish culture. You refer to British pride and the historical actions of Britain, which seems comparable to a Jew having pride in their culture but also recognising the historical and current actions of Israel. I believe this is an ill-informed comparison. Although some political Zionists believe Judaism to be both a religion and a national identity (in addition to an ethnicity) many Jews do not. Baddiel's statement that he doesn't especially care about Israel/Palestine indicates that he is part of the latter group. The correct comparison would be to expect an Israeli to recognise the historical actions of their nation, in order to also feel pride in their national identity. The mistake is made in equating Jewish cultural identity to Israeli national identity. Hope this is helpful.

[@nathanborak2172]

Your characterization of him as "weak" for not having a strong opinion on Israel is highly problematic in my opinion, and relating this situation to being proud to be English doesn't hold up. If you say you're proud of some accomplishment of English people, like the industrial revolution, then you're right that it behooves you to also acknowledge the costs of that achievement like colonialism, exploitation, and slavery. You are making a positive value judgement on something British people did, so you'd be a jerk, and be misleading people, if you did not also mention the costs. On the other-hand, no Jew should similarly feel they "have" to discuss Israel when acknowledging the long history of murderous persecution that Jews have faced, since that persecution was something done to* Jews. It was not something Jews did that came at the expense of others. One is not "picking and choosing the bits of Jewish culture they want to associate with" by discussing this without mentioning Israel (do you realize how this sounds?). There is nothing that needs to be explained as a coda to acknowledging that people killed my family. The hyper-awareness among Jews of their own persecution is indeed a part of Jewish culture, but it is not "chosen" as some "badge" for political or social benefit like in some childish twitter spat; it is forced by history and direct experience with our family members. Perhaps you were more focused on the supposed disconnect between talking about Jewish accomplishments without mentioning Israel, but again, the positive accomplishments Baddiel mentions have nothing to do with Israel and came at the expense of no one. The only reason he should discuss Israel is if he is specifically talking about Israeli Jewish accomplishments (which, to my knowledge, he isn't), or if you hold all Jews worldwide responsible for Israel's actions. It is natural that many Jews talk about Israel, but for many others Israel just doesn't feature prominently in their cultural identity, and who are you to decide how they view themselves? Your position really demonstrates a severe lack of empathy. Imagine for a moment that your grandma's entire family was exterminated and she told you about it. That knowledge would feature prominently in your life, I'd say. Then imagine that you simply enjoy your cultural and family traditions. Now imagine that some lady on youtube says that the actions of some other people who share your ethnicity did some things she doesn't like, so if you are going to mention that your grandma's family was killed or discuss your family's traditions, then you got to mention these other people as well. These other people are part of your culture, this lady has decided. That lady on youtube is wrong.

[@nammyg]

Couldn’t have put it better… thank you 🙏

[@celifacejones]

Anyone else having trouble with the comments? It says 5 comments but the rest never show up, just one lol. Or are they being deleted?

[@lulu9759]

KZbin doesn’t show comments contain certain words.

[@celifacejones]

@@lulu9759 That is so weird. What could they possibly have said to b censored?

[@Chareads]

I don't have control over them, not even showing up for review 🤷‍♀️ but I have got notifications for more comments. Wouldn't shock me if KZbin auto-deleted comments with the word 'Nazi' or 'holocaust' and a negative emotional sentiment.

[@celifacejones]

@@Chareads Ahhh. Just seems so extreme. 4 of the 5 weren't shown! That level of censorship is concerning. Sucks that you don't even get a chance to decide if it's appropriate on your own channel, too.

[@GuiltyFeat]

I didn't understand your confusion. Can you explain further why you think Baddiel MUST have an opinion on Israel. My experience with the book is that it was very British. That's not a criticism, ut I felt it was perhaps a nuance that you didn't appreciate. Baddiel writes about the peculiar form of antisemitism that manifests on the left in the UK. Jews have an entirely different profile in the US and elsewhere. British antisemitism is all about microaggressions and class because being British is all about microaggressions and class.

[@Chareads]

I think he's picking and choosing the bits of Jewish culture that he wants to associate with. I don't think he _must_ have an opinion on Israel, but there's a dissonance there that he doesn't address. 100% it's a very British take, I should have been more explicit about that in the video.

[@GuiltyFeat]

@@Chareads I don't have a problem with him picking the bits of Jewish culture he likes. I think that's kinda exactly where Jewish culture is in the 21st century. Doesn't seem dissonant at all to me, but I'm surrounded by Jews who all relate to their Jewish-ness in markedly different ways. This was a really great review, thanks for sharing it.

[@JoelWende]

@@Chareads Jewish culture and Israeli culture are entirely different things. It's the conflating of those two things that is indeed Antisemitic!

[@JoelWende]

You have, clearly accidentally, committed one of the very sins that Baddiel is referencing when saying 'Jews Don't Count'. Claiming that it is weak for a Jew not to take a position on Israel IS Antisemitic. I'm sorry but it just is. Israel is a Jewish state, but all (most) Jews are not Israeli. That's were your example falls down. You are British, so if you feel a sense of guilt or responsibility for British Colonialism it makes some sort of sense, because you are British and it can be argued that you have benefited from that history. Baddiel is not Israeli, he has never been Israeli, none of his family are Israeli. You're asking him to take a position on something purely because he shares the same religion as a lot of the people in a Country he has nothing to do with. And that is Antisemitic.

[@upendasana7857]

totally agree.It would be like asking every British white person to know colonial history and understand the antecedents of race and white supremacy as it still plays out today and advantages still today many white people both within the UK and more glablly by living in a wealthy country where certain wealth is enjoyed compared to previousl colonised countries in Africa which still today suffer the effects of colonial rule. MOst white British people know absolutely no colonial history and understand very little about how racism effects black people either in the UK or elsewhere.It is a complete double standard and blind spot which many "white"British people seem to have.

[@enthronedking]

Israeli here. What you say about the fact that your'e British means that you have to talk both about the industrial revolution as well as colonialism, it's flawed logic in my view if your'e comparing that with Baddiel's take on Israel. Israel was founded as a refuge for Jews after 3000 years of murderous prosecution on every part of this planet. It has provided shelter for Jews fleeting prosecution everywhere from Russia to Iran to Ethiopia to Germany to Libya. If you are implying that the founding of Israel was itself colonialist then that's simply factually incorrect. And no, Israel is not above criticism, but calling it colonialism is part of the radical left BDS\Corbyn narrative that isn't going to help Palestinians any time soon.

[@Chareads]

I wasn't trying to imply that there's a comparison to colonialism, more that Baddiel was being selective with the parts of Jewish culture and history he associates with - for British people there's a conflict of pride and guilt for our part in global history which was the nearest conflict to me that I could think of. I don't think he should come down on a particular side or feel particular guilt or shame, but not acknowledging Israel and Palestine as a foundational concern to modern Jews was weak to me.

[@enthronedking]

the assumption that Jews around the world must have an opinion on Israel is problematic. Too many times Jews are accused of having double allegiance. Does every Muslim in England have to have an opinion on all the Muslim countries ?

[@Chareads]

If someone wrote a book about Islamophobia in the UK and explicitly said they don't care about how Muslims (moreso than any other group) are treated in other countries I'd find that pretty weird. I don't think every Jew everywhere _must_ have an opinion on Palestine, but a public figure speaking about Jewish issues probably shouldn't be so blasé.

[@enthronedking]

@@Chareads I hear you. To be honest I found his neutral stance pretty odd as well but at the end of the day it's his book and his point of view. Just out of curiosity, how did you end up picking up this relatively niche book in the first place? Like your reviews, keep up the good work!

[@Chareads]

Thanks! I can't remember how I found out about the book, possibly a news or comedy podcast he was featured on. I suggested it for my book club because when we do nonfiction we err towards political and historical, it made for a good discussion!

[@Jantonov1]

You absolutely have to have a position on Israel if you're Jewish in my opinion. My family came to Canada from Russia a hundred years ago and I'm traditionally a bit to the left, as has been my family for a couple of generations. Nobody in my family ever felt the need to visit Israel for any particular reason. We're culturally Jewish and not so much religiously so. But we all have a position about it. Some in my family are more to the right than I am but I'm not sure I understand Jewishness without some kind of position on the Israel/Palestine situation. But that's just me.

[@jesskotzer]

History...we can't live with it, we can't live without it. Big fan here, with some rambles. I think it's okay to be proud of certain cultural practices without being nationalistic or needing to shoulder the sins of our ancestors. Especially for multiethnic cities, where we share food and culture starting in nursery school. Heck ya you should be proud that your Chinese Canadian mom makes the best Chinese food your friends have ever had. Should you then also apologize for forced labour camps in China? Or be thankful that you inherited your Jewish grandfather's dirty sense of humour, without ever stepping foot in Israel. Hundreds, thousands, of years will fly by. Surely our cultures will evolve and the wounds of today might feel as distant as ancient greece.

[@smug3311]

Are you jewish?

[@noelgibson5956]

I don't know that most Jews I meet are Jewish unless they actually tell me they are. Many Brits look exactly the same as them.

[@GriefTourist]

Why do people stay in places where many people don't like them?

[@Jantonov1]

Cause life...

[@upendasana7857]

what on earth do you mean by that ?!!! what "people"do you mean and also what places"....also who doesn't like who ? you mean when Nazis decide that all Jews are bad ? or a nother country decide "we don't like Jews or we don;t like Blacks or gypsies or gay people...what on earth do you mean.Do you think societies should be ruled by a majority and any minority should just go away somewhere !!!! honestly and we wonder whay we have things like antisemetism,that is exactly the kind of thinking that brings such things about!!!

[@upendasana7857]

I don't think you can seperate historiccal racism and things like slavery and colonial from institutional racism and "everyday racism"that you talked about today.They are all interconnected and one could not exist without the other as in there would not be racial categories and sterotypes that we have today if it wasn't for colonial rule and slavery. The same is with antisemitism,these tropes about "rich Jews"controlling financial systems and so on have been used historically against Jews,this is often the racial stereotypes and historical prejudices that have been used and jsutified various pogroms and the holocaust itself. Again you conflate being Jewish and Israeli as the same thing by expecting Jewish people to have a strong position on Israel one way or another. Comparing your position as a white British person who lives ina country whether you like it or not where you enjoy the wealth and privileges that colonialism has broght this country and which as a white person you still enjoy.If a Jewish person chose to live in Israel or take up their so called right to return to Israel then that would be a seperate matter or for those Jews who strongly identify with Israel as some kind of mother land or Holy ancestral land that is theirs by rights then that is another matter and there are many Jews wordlwide who may feel this. However most Jews d not identify their Jewishness with Israel or feel much affinity or rights concerning Israel as a Jewish homeland. The comparison you use though as yourself or most white Brtish people who feel or have no take on colonialism is a false one as you and we simply as most white British people still enjoy and partake the historial lagacy that colonialism has given us in terms of wealth and also racial privilege to be purely identified as white and to not have to suffer the negative racial sterotypes many black or brown people do. Again I cannot help notice the absolute blind spot many white people seem to have with regards to colonial history and the history or race and racism and its relevance to today not only between being balck or white British but also as rgards our position globally in relation to global south countries or fomer colonies who still are impated econmically and in so many other ways today and yet you exoect Jews who don't even live in Israel or have a view on Israel particualrly as a homeland or place that is entwined with their own Jewish identity. It seems like a double standard to me and I am also continually surprised at how ignorant many white British people are of Jewish culture and history in general and how few people seem to ever know people either from Jewish community or indeed any other communitites. I think most white British people are not even aware of the racial sterotypes they hold whether of Jews or many other people espcially if they hardly come into intimate contact qith them.Just this very blank assumption that the whole world looks like them and very little understanding of anything outside of that.

[@ashleyoasis7948]

109 countries brown Egypt brown babylion to a white Spain and a white Italy all taking up the same expulsion never started with Germany surely 109 countries can’t be in the wrong to this one group

[@upendasana7857]

Again Israel is NOT his country...thats the point whereas Britain is YOUR country,also the industrial revolution as intimately entwined with slavery and extraction capitalism that arised though colonialism so you cannnot seperate the two. You live here and David does not live in Israel !! so your comparison is a false one because Israel is not his country Britian is !!

[@generalzod647]

Are you available for dating?

[@AshMundo]

What is racism? Baddiel black facing, wearing a pineapple and calling Irish travellers the P word, I call that racism!