JF-17 Thunder vs F-16C Viper: Which DCS WORLD Module Is Best? Which Should I Buy?

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[@ВячеславФролов-д7я]

Couple things to add. I have about 100 hours of flight in jeff and 50 in F16 mostly doing air to air. So: 1. jeff has more "solid" TWS lock. I`ve done only limited tests but f16`s TWS can be notched while notching jeff`s is almost impossible (you have to fly ideal 90 degrees) 2. if you and your target are doing evasive maneuvres, f16`s TWS lock can be broken easier compared with jeff`s radar (we are talking about same width and height of scan zone). Jeff`s TWS lock is almost impossible to break 3.While using high PRF settings, jeff`s radar can track cold targets much better than viper`s (yes, you should use med PRF for those, but usually you have to track hot targets first, so I usually stay on high PRF most of the time). 4.As you tested, SD10 is a bit faster and agile than aim120, so personally it feels about 20%more deadly when fired from the edge of the MAR. 5. And of course extremly large and bright MFDs jeff has, add some points to his situational awareness. 6. Jeff is much more comfortable during landing and take-off. Doesn`t mean anything for experienced player but i hate viper`s landing and take off behavior which decreases game experience a bit. 7. I must give credit to viper`s flight model. Sometimes when you fly jeff you fell like piloting plastic toy while viper feels totally different Overall, personally, jeff and viper are about equal in BVR. F16`s awesome kinematics and 6 missiles do their job but jeff is just more ergonomic and informative, which helps much when you fly practical missions, not training fights, and lower amount of med range missiles is compensated by their increased deadliness.

[@flighttherapybullisticfpv133]

Its true the Jeff is seriously bare-bones in the cockpit.. The F-16 has a super awesome cockpit but I went with the Jeff during the last sale because It plays so well in VR and I kinda like the idea of a scrappy little fighter thats been designed to sell to literally any country in the world and has an avionic integration that can theoretically communicate with any ordnance in the world, all at half the cost of an F-16.. Also having a hifi redfor jet for online play is kinda cool.. its right at home over the Gulf or Syria

[@tonymarcella13]

The JF feels more modern and can do more at current state. F16 is just cool. Answer - get both.

[@Welther47]

The F16 is really old, the JF17 is new, and still they are on the same level.

[@nimomemre9567]

@@Welther47 its bcz jeff developers (mainly Pakistan air force) wanted a jet very similar to F16 and so JF17 doesn't shows anything exceptional compare to F16 even with all this development time gap. The world may compare JF17 and F16 and see them as competitors but actually Pakistan Air force developed JF17 as a platform similar to F16 or lets say as a substitute of F16.

[@americanmink8744]

@@nimomemre9567 well they failed in real life, the main work of development is done by chinese not Pakistani people. Second, dcs version is way better than the real thing.

[@nimomemre9567]

@@americanmink8744 whats a fact is that both countries played their part in developing this jet and now its overhualed and even manufactured in Pakistan. Only export versions are manufactured in China. About JF17 as a failure , well 150+ units in service with PAF and also active in defence export market , currently serving Myanmar & Nigeria air forces. So actually there's no reason to call it a failed jet. About whats better DCS version or real one is a debate , you and I can't discuss bcz neither you nor I have flown JF17 in real life. So we can't discuss it nor can comment on it.

[@americanmink8744]

@@nimomemre9567 overhauling something doesn't mean that you have ability to develop fighter jets. Second Pakistani lack a lot in technology thanks to their obsession with religion and India.

[@aeronaut1406]

PAF has got both!

[@aeronaut1406]

@Lordblunts 420 maybe a low-life like you doesn't, but we Pakistanis do!

[@moheedsyed7278]

@Lordblunts 420 I asked

[@moheedsyed7278]

@@aeronaut1406 💯💯

[@soapbox4632]

@@aeronaut1406 I’m not even Pakistani but I care

[@aeronaut1406]

@@soapbox4632 Thanks bro!

[@notaveragecr6041]

"Can we have F-16" "We have F-16 at home." *F-16 at Home:*

[@flappyBoi]

Yeah but we do have f16s too

[@flappyBoi]

The jeff's development was started because at some point in the past some US president placed sanctions on Pakistan and Lockheed Martin wasn't allowed to sell the vipers to PAF anymore. So the military leadership felt the need for a locally developed jet. The sanction has been removed but we do have a jet of our own now.

[@dampmaky]

@@flappyBoi always good to have something to fall back to, the jeff is like the workhorse of the paf

[@Tigermoto]

The Jeff has canopy fogging which is cool AF, but hasn't got wing flex which is a shame. Shame about the HMD too but the Jeff is a cheapo fighter. It's funny hearing the guy knock on the cockpit when you forget to open it when changing the data cartridge. I think it's safe to say the F16C is a masterpiece, but Deka have innovated with the Jeff to add to the game. I've got both, but I really love flying the Jeff.

[@theoutpost3608]

Block 3 of jeff have better avionics bigger HUD and HMD and better engine. Dont know wether it will be translated into DCS!!

[@profo4544]

The JF-17 has more modern avionics in some regards, however, you pay for what you get in the F-16. Block 2 JF-17 is an 8g, Mach 1.6 jet while the F-16C Block 52 is a 9g Mach 2.1 jet. The F-16 boasts a MUCH better thrust to weight, sustained turn rate, and payload capacity. The JF-17 block 3 will put it on par with the F-16, while at a much lower cost. It is also important to note that F-16s are easily upgraded with the latest gadgets like AESA radars and IRST. Just because the F-16 is old doesn't mean it's outdated. They are both 4th gen airplanes being upgraded to 4+ gen.

[@jeager7623]

i hope dekaiironwork introduce block 3 jf 17 so it can get the HMD, thats the only reason thts stopping me from getting jf

[@georgetaylor8654]

I think that what you mean with the feel of the textures is the bump to it and the depth of the textures. Which is amazing.

[@grimreapers]

Agree

[@flappyBoi]

The jeff's block 3 now has an hmd its upto deka if they implement that version in dcs.

[@WalrusWinking]

Hard to get planes that new as they're always extremely classified. For instance the F-16V a perfect example.

[@americanmink8744]

@@WalrusWinking f16 block70/72 is awesome.

[@louhodo5761]

I love the JF-17 Thunder over the F-16 Falcon. Don't get me wrong the Falcon is a fantastic aircraft but if you fly or flew the F-16 in FalconBMS the DCS version is a bit lacking. The Thunder was and is a VERY easy to learn and fly aircraft unlike the Falcon. Both have very short legs on internal fuel but the JF is a lot easier to deal with at low speeds and landing.

[@joegoveia6499]

Don't forget the almost infinite visibility out of the F-16 cockpit opposed to the JF is obstructed by a halo. That's huge in a dogfight.

[@drewjames8594]

Thats huge for me. Don;t forget the Refueling probe..

[@sionjones1675]

It's just huge, full stop! I also play Flight sim 2020 anf love cruising around and sightseeing, but every damn time, I just miss the incredible visibility from the F-16 cockpit! I want the F-16 in Flight sim!

[@kaesong6080]

@@drewjames8594 You can ask the ground crew to remove that

[@soviet_yoda8820]

I own the f-16c and have flown the jf-17 straight for 3 weeks but didn´t have the money. I would say the JEFF! Unless you´re only into A-A the jeff is more quirky, more versatile, easier, and generally cooler in my opinion. Plus stands more out

[@flighttherapybullisticfpv133]

The jeff holds its own in A-A as well. Those Sd-10s are not to be messed with and the jet itself can hold its own in a dogfight.. just save your ammo for those good opportunities cuz there aint much of it lol

[@tahaejazkhan6037]

Listen, I'm a Pakistani, my country operates the F-16 and made the JF-17 AND I'll buy the F-16 cause it's sexier from both exterior and interior and the Viper's kinematic performance is better, so it's more fun to fly. Also, the Viper is better at A2A while the Thunder is better at A2G. So as per my priorities, I'll get the Viper, the biggest deciding factor is sexiness LOL. Further, As Cap said the "feel" is better. SO VIPER!!!

[@olivertaylor3410]

Im to worried to watch this as iv just bought the f16 in the steam sale haha

[@ivo5581]

I have both, solved

[@nb8131]

There are 3 important factors for any product. 1. Design - who designed the product. 2. Manufacture - who manufacture the product. 3. Pars - How many % ( in today's world it is normal practice to buy parts from other countries) Here 1st and 2rd points are most important to decide indigenousness. In case of F-16, 1st and 2rd are 100% by USA.

[@sergeantliangplays]

Thx for this video!!! BTW the only 2 stuff I like in the Jeff is the cockpit is filled with screens and less buttons, second is the anti ship

[@DerErdnussKrieger]

The Jeff have more simulation like the f16 😂 real ground crew interacting. Better cockpit simulation. Weapons are better. SD 10 is a beast with the jammer. More multipurpose. F16 is old. The systems is to old.

[@DerErdnussKrieger]

That is the real sound in the Jeff. Watch videos 😂

[@MattDvc]

One shall not ask Cap to compare F-16C to anything... ... it's like asking mother to compare her baby to a neighbors one 😂

[@grimreapers]

lols! It's so beautiful in my eyes!

[@iaidoman]

Jf cockpit..... flat. The only word I can use.

[@DRAGONslayer-sv8bh]

Brilliant video id love to see a similar one but comparing the jf with the hornet

[@jahanzebkhan5944]

Just because people do not like the origin of JF, then it’s okay To discredit it no matter what 🤣😂😂🤣 Nature of the beast

[@slowhornet4802]

Hi Cap and RC, great video. Would it be possible to conduct some 1:1 dogfights (guns only but also AIM-9 / AIM-9X) between F-16 and F/A-18 between GR members? I assume you have some F-16 experts and some green button jockeys in your group. F-16 should have an advantage in guns only but with the AIM-9X and one circle fights the Hornet might have an advantage.

[@grimreapers]

lol literally planning this as we speak :)

[@slowhornet4802]

What can I say...Great minds think alike 😎 Looking forward to the video!

[@bearcatracing007]

I mean the F-16 is sexy af so it's a clear winner hahaha Plus you can pretend you are in Iron Eagle!

[@grimreapers]

valid point

[@dutch_bullet]

For me its 50/50, F16 looks cooler but I hate the feel of the pressure based stick and the refeuling methode, but the JF-17 is easier to use but lacks missions, lower fps in cockpit view and I know nothing about the Chinese or Pakistani air force. That said Deka Ironworks delivered a very complete early access plane wich is easier to get into without having to re learn stuff all the time.

[@SL-cj1ny]

I don’t understand why people are always comparing fighter jests built by two countries and why it is a hot topic. Each fighter had its own advents and disadvantages. Also, fighter itself there are many categories like Light Weight, Medium Weight and Heavy weight which had its own usage. Which fighter has to be used is depending on the operation that needs to be carried out. For example, if a fighter jet has to fly a long distance and has to cover a wider area, then the heavy weight twin engine is better since it can carry huge fuel and more weapons. So, instead of comparing always weapons built by two counties, compare other well-being areas of the countries like Economy, Education facility, Health Care facility, Transportation facility, Space Technologies, Motor vehicle production, Number of Engineering and Medical graduates produced per year, Software outsourcing, Production of medicines and vaccines, International Business, Leadership development etc. Focus on these things as well instead of concentrating for development of weapons

[@anaesthesia3571]

I believe Jeff is good for AIR-GROUND purpose and F-16 is good for AIR-AIR combat???

[@nimomemre9567]

Actually both jets are the same mostly , JF17 is a modern jet and entered service recently (in PAF particularly) compared to F16 so have more variety of weapons. Thats all. Still many will feel inclined towards F16 bcz its simple , its a legendery jet and has a big fan club while jeff is new and definately its fan club is not that big. Anyways as I said before they're basically the same in flight chracteristics. So I have both and everyone should have both of them. #Peace 👍

[@ofCross]

Hi Cap, you should change your excel chart, because the SD-10 is effective on 40+ miles... you can do a little research about it and if not, perhaps make a video to prove I'm wrong :) Edit: And maybe you could add to that excel a "self-defense" category? like does the airplane have built-in ECM [or ECM via external Pod] or MWS like the A-10 and Jf-17 ?

[@grimreapers]

Adjusted range. Will have a further think about self-defense thx

[@kiekiek]

I'm on the fence of buying my first DCS plane. I have some experience in mfs 2020 (flybywire A320 , crj 700 mostly), but pretty much a beginner. Out of the JF17, F16, F18 hornet, what would be the best buy, in terms of difficulty, flight model, sounds, graphics etc, I tend to the JF17 because it seems easier, but from what I have seen the other two are looking better (especially the cockpit) and sounding better.

[@robadzso]

I only own the Hornet, which is super high fidelity and the most advanced in terms of systems development. The F/A-18 is true multi role plus it's carrier capable, which is super fun on a level the other two cannot provide. Ask yourself what are you most likely going to do in terms of mission profiles and decide accordingly. You cannot really go wrong. Peace ✌

[@kiekiek]

@@robadzso Bit late answer, I chose the Hornet and it was a very good decision, it is capable of almost anything, I bought the F14 and F16 on sale since then, but the F18 is so complete and versatile, that you can fly the Hornet for hundreds if not thousands of hours without the need of anything else, It is the number one plane to get for a first high fidelity module.

[@robadzso]

@@kiekiek Well done. I'm glad I could help. I also bought the Tomcat and JF in the meantime, I would only add, that the Tomcat feels like the single most polished and ultra detailed A/C among all the others. Also it is believed by many to have a soul, for a good reason. 😁 Have fun in your jets and see you in the skies!

[@fillmore8752]

Im on the fence (F16, F18, Jf17), i really don’t know which one of these to get

[@grimreapers]

Really can;t go wrong with either. 16 is my fav overall.

[@fillmore8752]

@@grimreapers well, got myself the F16 now. i’m absolutely overwhelmed since it’s my first big module but whatever😂

[@hudsondonnell444]

Viper driver is now watching! 👀

[@pedrohicken3884]

I got the JF17 over the F16. No regrets.

[@ulisesvelez5846]

two top fighters the pakistani-chicom jf-17 and the american f-16-viper. in cyber dogfighters.

[@sultanashoma2182]

I’m all for avionics. I just want to know which one has more advanced systems and avionics.

[@getsideways7257]

I don't know how you can be saying that the Viper is the winner kinematically. In my own testing it's the worst dogfighter among DCS' 4th gens. The JF-17, on the other hand, turns beautifully. But yeah, the TWR is lacking and man, that horrible cannon... Edit: one thing about the JF-17 that is absolutely inexcusable, however, is the "manual". It hasn't been updated in over a year and it just SCREAMS "cheap!"

[@grimreapers]

Interesting, doing proper tests on this as we speak and it is tending to agree with you.

[@getsideways7257]

@@grimreapers Surprisingly, Vipers seemed to perform much better in Falcon BMS (at least in 4.34), even though I'm almost absolutely positive both sims use the aero data from NASA TP-1538 for the aircraft. One possible explanation to this is the difference in fly-by-wire code. And that's another reason why SFM doesn't have thrust vectoring: it's not just a question of hard-mapping nozzle axes to joystick ones, FbW has to consider all kinds of values to properly set up the nozzles. And it looks like Deka didn't do a great job about implementing their own TVC-specific FbW code. But then again, they say so themselves that it was a mere experiment on their part, nothing more.

[@getsideways7257]

@@grimreapers Watch this space, so to speak. In the upcoming 27th of January update Deka are going to roll out new control laws for thrust vectoring that should make the feature much more useful. You might want to make a video on investigating the TVC's effectiveness for dogfighting once the update is out.

[@chebb3699]

@@getsideways7257 so what do you enjoy more is more worth it do you think. The jf17 or f16

[@getsideways7257]

@@chebb3699 I think it's best to wait until the next DCS update: ED mentioned they are revisiting the F-16's flight model. If they indeed will manage to up the plane's performance, for me personally it would be a hard call, since I liked F-16 for decades. But JF-17 is an extremely interesting plane too and the Deka's module is also very good. I think that if you can, it's best to grab both eventually. Even if you have to wait for two sales for that. If the F-16 update won't do much about its sluggishness however, I'd probably suggest getting the JF-17 first. But it also highly depends on what you are going to use it mostly for. For me guns only/Fox-2 dogfighting takes preference, so as far as DCS modules go, I'd have to stick with the JF.

[@magicsharkwizard4577]

Really annoying if the Viper won't ever get the Penguins, but maybe realistic since its a US version of the Viper.

[@tombstone4362]

How easily the stores break on the JF17 during turns and pulls, why i passed on buying it.

[@cellokid5104]

Rly?

[@samnigam3451]

Upcoming F21 will be 2000 times better than both F16 Viper (including Block 50) n JF17s anyday. But F16 Viper is more than a match to JF17 blunders. JF17 has just 2 advantages that it can carry anti ship missiles n cruise missiles which F16s can't but F16 has slight advantage over JF17 bcoz it's highly manoeuvrable more agile n scores high in terms of max speed but JF17 has better turn radius as compared to F16.

[@mahirahmed2656]

🤦🏻‍♂️F21 doesn't exists its a proposed plan for indian airforce that it is not going to buy

[@warhead_beast7661]

Is there a Mitsubishi F2 in DCS? It would rlly be intresting to compare it

[@grimreapers]

neg

[@deanboy2416]

yes there is, its called F-16 :)

[@shaun1165]

@@deanboy2416 They are actually kinda different...

[@deanboy2416]

@@shaun1165 sure, in terms of avionics. but not in dogfighting performance. same airframe, same aerodynamics, same thrust to weight, same gun

[@shaun1165]

@@deanboy2416 Just look it up on Wiki. They have different weight, air frame, and wing span/shape.

[@somerando8615]

I kind of wonder how many people play DCS for milsim and care about immersion / realism vs people who do competitive pvp and only care about kinematics / weapons.

[@drewjames8594]

I believe it started out as the ladder and is now leaning the other way

[@Riotdrone]

i think it's certainly more of the first, competitive pvp needs a high degree of experience and competence and you'll only have that in the first place if you're interested in realistic milsim enough to get the game

[@mehreenjiwa2335]

Kxkzkzk

[@vapor8611]

11 months later, but i play for milsim😁👍

[@abdulmoiz-my3wr]

jeff has a gsh 23 twin barrel

[@veleriphon]

The Jeff's cockpit looks cheap, and I mean the few, real-life images of it.

[@kaesong6080]

The real JF-17 is half the price of a F-16

[@veleriphon]

That does explain a great deal about how the CCP operates.

[@donjunal]

​@@veleriphonit's Pakistani lol

[@ryansta]

Save 10:50 It's the F16

[@piecectrlhsh5718]

Does not matter if f16 is better or jf17 cuz we have both of them😏😎 😂😂😂😂😂

[@klofisch]

mmhh the JF-17 is still on early access...

[@tachiritoxdddd346]

Hii

[@Tastaturmusik]

F16 sucks in VR unfortunately.

[@riplikash]

What? It's my favorite plane to fly in vr, hands down. Do you mean performance, or what?

[@Tastaturmusik]

@@riplikash No, MFDs are too small and too far away, readability and SA is subpar compared to modern cockpits even on high res HMDs. Ontop of that the bubble canopy has no advantages in VR. I bought the F16, checked it out in VR and refunded it. But if you like it, great!

[@qiyuxuan9437]

@@Tastaturmusik what headset did you used？

[@Mrv9019]

F16, jf17 has shitty radar

[@skyecommander2169]

Jf17 is ugly AF. F16 is sexy as hell. Discussion over.

[@IronMan-ds5bi]

Agreed. Nothing beats that side profile....so damn sleek

[@aeronaut1406]

agree that F-16 is beautiful. but it is not fashion show up in the air

[@nattawattankul3783]

he ho

[@vapor8611]

Roddy rich?

[@salmananz]

No, Tejas is the better of the two, with 30-year development behind it.

[@aeronaut1406]

haha

[@helicopter9049]

good jock hahahaha

[@no-kf8yy]

The Tejas isn't in the game.

[@RelentlessVIII]

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@sharkfn2678]

To be honest the jf is just a viper ripoff

[@robertlee6529]

Hope all the CCP mods get banned from DCS in the near future.

[@zdj1013]

Agreed, they should also ban all the aircraft from ussr and nazi germany.

[@qiyuxuan9437]

ED is a Russian company btw😂

[@aeronaut1406]

Also they should ban modules from countries which have shameful colonizing past