JGM SHOWS HOW TO DO MULITIPLE POWER UPGRADES ON AN ENGINE: PART 3

[@sorshiaemms5959]

nice to see some one do a Cleveland build

[@restomod101]

Thanks Sorshia! Please like and subscribe. Need all the help we can get.

[@dougchildress4031]

24 hp gained in first part was basically in the compression increase from open chamber iron heads to heart shaped aluminum. Put flat tops with the iron heads and you'd save all that cost (aluminum heads, roller rockers, unnecessary 3/8" pushrods and guideplates added about $2800). Spend $750 to $1200 for a decent set of iron 4V heads and you would already have been at 450 hp. With a simple 3310 750cfm carb. So much money spent to gain nothing but bling.

[@restomod101]

Hey Doug! Thanks for commenting. Who doesn’t like bling?!?

[@codyvandyke2309]

Just picked up a ho 351c from a mach 1... iron heads from ford 4v open or closed are the best heads

[@browntacks708]

Agreed easy swop to closed chamber from the open 1 that was use and boom💨 Aluminum is lighter and can go higher in compression ,but not necessarily needed $ 😎

[@kevind3185]

4V Iron closed chamber heads would be a better comparison to the aluminum heads. Open chamber heads were known for detonation even in 2V form and Pistons low in the hole at TDC aka the 351M-400.. And I highly doubt the iron heads removed from the test engine were open chamber heads

[@whales302]

Agree, too much money for those Edelbrock heads for little gain. not a lot of Cleveland guys like them....I'll stick with my 4V quench heads on my Cleveland or someday maybe a set of CHI heads.

[@iramyrick5345]

2of2 Now, what was the cost to achieve that additional 44hp? What did it cost. That is why I said the best power was achieved at the start. Thousands were spent to pick up 44hp. The iron heads of a cleveland are absolutely amazing. You set the pistons up to achieve decent compression. Get a cam with lift and moderate duration. Do not over cam it! And you will make awesome power

[@waynecera4422]

i was always told by an old 351 guru never go to 110 FT lbs on the cyl head bolts as the bores distort. Use only 95 FT lbs and use hylamar. 36 deg total timing while good for short power runs was reduced to 32 deg for endurance testing at Ford dynos in Geelong back in the 1970s while developing the 351 4v ho engine. (It was destroying head gaskets) Fords XY351 ho ph3 was a legendary car & engine combination. cheers

[@racerd9669]

Now you need to test the CHI 208 head and matching intake.

[@jamesford2942]

Love how when they show the dyno numbers at 11:50 they lost 14 lb/ft of torque for a small gain of 24 HP

[@andrewhudson3723]

Awesome series! I hope there's a 351C in my future.

[@restomod101]

Thanks Andrew. Please like and subscribe so we can make more!

[@craigpennington1251]

The guys from Australia used to make a killer 351 Cleveland. Thay may still be at it.(?).

[@danielwilson6665]

⁠@@craigpennington1251 Craig that’s a good point. North American Ford Cleveland production ended in 1974. Australian Ford production ran until 1982 but thanks to the Aussie Cleveland popularity being so strong, their aftermarket has continued development of Cleveland performance parts. A good example is on KZbin provided by FullBoost. Dandy Engines in Melbourne used a set of Higgins Race Heads designed Cleveland heads and intake on top of an aftermarket Windsor block. The 461 cubic inch Clevor has a single 4-V induction system that’s naturally aspirated with NO power adders. It was dyno tested using Aussie pump fuel to produce 934 hp and 669 torque. When tested using race fuel it made 979 hp and 700 torque. That’s 2.12 horsepower per cubic inch without forced induction or nitrous ! I’m an American that’s been involved with Clevelands for 42 years. My hats off to the Aussies for taking Clevelands to the next level and beyond🏁

[@iramyrick5345]

So, what was the price point between 406HP and 450HP? That’s a lot of money to only pick up 44hp. Still would like to know what Cam you ran on those stock 2V heads? I think that was the best bang for your buck street build. To hit 406 with iron heads. That’s awesome!! Credit to the cleveland. Imagine what you could have made with 4v closed chamber🤔

[@iramyrick5345]

Ok, so the best performance was had at the initial run. Know, I assume the pistons were set up to achieve the desired compression for the Edelbrock heads. Not the open chamber iron heads. Iron heads are already low compression. So, the pistols were slightly dished. At least, they appear to be. Think of what the power would have been if the pistons were correct for the iron heads. To achieve the same compression ratio. 1-of 2

[@rono3045]

Look at those 2V Cleveland cylinder heads had bigger ports than those Edelbrock aluminum if you simply just would have done a cam swap and left them iron stock heads on there those will outperform Edelbrock heads trust me I know

[@racerd9669]

So true out of all the aluminum heads available for the cleveland why would you us the Edelbrock head, The best choice for this engine would have been the CHI 208. That engine should have made 520 hp and 485 tq.

[@restomod101]

Hi Rono! Sure if you are building a dragster or circle track that’s true but look at what RPM? With that big of a port that would be great for over 6k rpm. A smaller port will provide higher velocity, more torque and better throttle response. We built a street car so we thought this was the better set up. Thanks for commenting!

[@scottford1091]

@@restomod101 I used to run a 66 mustang with a 351c 4v open chamber motor. (I would never recommend that swap btw). It came on HARD at 4k and pulled to 7k with a cast iron intake. Stock cleveland with only a crane cam with about .540 lift and garbage headers. 3.00 gear ran 109 mph at Bradenton in the early 80's. That was my daily.

[@browntacks708]

Impressive & im looking to do something similar thx 😎💨

[@raginroadrunner]

This sounds right.

[@cammontreuil7509]

Easiest engine of all time to make power from a quench 4 v. Just improve the valve train. Use a 600 lift cam and single plane intake and holley 800 double pump and headers. Easy.

[@cammontreuil7509]

@@ranesrollins9144 sounds like you have low compression. First do a compression test on all cylinders. What plugs are you using ?

[@cammontreuil7509]

@@ranesrollins9144 okay. We still need to know compression. Ford's don't like champ plugs but autolite. Also use a Duraspark ignition, coil and distributor. If you can find the Crane Energizer 524 cam. It's a rocket. A summit Sum-M08600VS carb. Buy a plug to plug the power valve. Number 70 main jets 74 secondary. I hope you used non detergent oil when first running engine in. Rings should have seated by now. Compression should be better than 185 psi.

[@cammontreuil7509]

@@ranesrollins9144 you asked me. " Have I done this ? " yes. It is well documented that stock 4v quench heads were made to flow at around 600 lift. And I have built many engines in that range. Please, I am not a braggart but I have built more than 70 Cleveland's. In many different configurations. Not everything you read in books is true. A 4v can be built for low end torque as an example. With the right combination of parts. But ring seating is crucial for power. This is alittle known fact. I built many engines for customers. But I always knew which engine was maxed and perfect. Some engines didn't smoke or rattle, which customers were happy, but I knew from experience it was down on power. Honing for power is a lost art. It's tricky business.

[@petergiannaros9037]

@@ranesrollins9144 The wrong camshaft will kill power in a 4 v Cleveland for starters.

[@timmyhudson8643]

@@ranesrollins9144I know this is an older post but, I have built a few 351 Cleveland engines and I would check the centrifugal advance. I have had a few problems with this in the 351 c engines.

[@mattbarnett5009]

I’ve got the weiand x-celarator 625 Barry grant Demon dp 14x3” drop base and only have about 5 or6 mm clearance in my XE. Are you getting the clearance with the spacer because the moroso drop base is lower than most Love the vids great work boys 🤘

[@joepawling4735]

Was the first test, 2v or 4v cast iron heads? All that was changed from stock was what? Manifold, cam and carb? 406hp and 446tq is good. Would love to know what the first test setup was. I have a ‘73 mustang 351c 2v heads, edlebrock performer manifold 600 CFM carb. I was looking at either stroking to 383

[@robertjones7695]

Maybe instead of the aluminium heads and fancy valve train, leave those alone and just replace the carburetter with the EFI? Much less cost than the final iteration but keeping the easy starting and driveability gains. Would probably have made good torque and power too.

[@kennethcohagen3539]

What kind of hp was the 383 making? Can you do a video on that?

[@brunoburtoni8479]

Any books that cover everything to assemble a 351 Cleveland? I don’t think this 3 part series is sufficient

[@restomod101]

Hi Bruno- there is a great book by George Reed you should check out. Link now in the description and here: www.amazon.com/Ford-351-Cleveland-Engines-Performance/dp/1613250487/ref=asc_df_1613250487/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=266004384678&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8044991520899803124&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1014362&hvtargid=pla-526665997435&psc=1

[@browntacks708]

I didn't hear any cam specs or compression ratio the Cleveland heads or aluminum heads were at?

[@bobkonradi1027]

What I do not understand about the Edelbrock 2v Cleveland aluminum heads is... why did Edelbrock spend the money to develop these heads, then expect scads of customers to buy them, when they did virtually nothing to improve the exhausts.? The Cleveland 2v heads were known to have crappy exhausts, and they should have raised the exhausts by around .750 inch. Why would they expect anybody to pay over $1000 for heads that weren't much better than the stock ones.? To me, the better option would be to get the Australian Cleveland 2V heads with the small combustion chambers for a couple hundred dollars and get basically the same power for not very much money.

[@restomod101]

Hi Bob! We agree the Aussie heads are awesome! We got what we thought was the best for our build and accessible. Thanks for comment !

[@matthewnosal6893]

I did the same thing. Was I go out and buy some 50 yr old casting and spend upwards of 2k in hardware machine work. Or I came across a smokin deal on some Eddie’s. The 2v heads are trash. The chamber is trash. The eddies have a more efficient chamber that you can add timing to.

[@waynecera4422]

@@matthewnosal6893 when the chamber is efficient you use LESS timing. You time to mean best torque at the particular RPM.

[@matthewnosal6893]

I was under the impression that for a given compression ratio say 12-1 the Eddie’s with the heart shape chamber would allow more timing with out detonation = more power? The open chamber of the 2v with a flat top won’t get get you hell even 10-1 comp ratio. Only way to get there would be domes. The open chamber of the 2v would rattle its self to death.

[@lonniemonroe2714]

Glad I still got several sets of the 4-v closed chamber iron heads. 1 set of Aussie heads to boot. A little time with a die grinder on either will run circles on the Eddie's.

[@68nitrostang]

Why the decrease in torque with a smaller intake port ? Camshaft that much bigger ?

[@scottford1091]

Edelbrock did no homework on those heads... so sad. Can't believe they list so much torque and only gained 14 hp. Wonder if the new cam helped or hurt? Ford actually did do their homework on the Cleveland 2v and 4v. Flat tops. zero deck and open 4vs would have probably sailed right past 450 hp.

[@mansourjreige677]

My 4v made 558hp aluminium heads not needed

[@williamhardes8081]

how long did you run in the cam before the power runs or is it a myth and not necessary? i like that, "and number 3, they just look freakin awsome!" well said. 😀😀😀almost need to get a set of clear rocker covers so you can always see them?

[@restomod101]

I love the idea of clear rocker covers! Thanks for commenting!!

[@JohnSmith-wg2qd]

Cam break in is ccritical they just didnt show all of it 20 to 30 min then change oil. I have a 351 Cl. With iron 4v heads & got bout double their horsepower number & gobs of torque!!!! My favorite engine had it bout 30+ years

[@jamesmedina2062]

@@JohnSmith-wg2qd roller cam no break in

[@gordocarbo]

@@restomod101 The quality in materials just isnt there to do it, have them seal and not turn color over time. Tried but yeah id love some like a visible v8 Good vid, tell the haters to spend the $ send you parts and you can do one their way No engine vending machine around I know of?

[@jimhebert9198]

Domaintor carb and 2inch headers the numbers would of been way way more

[@jackofalltrades4904]

Why are you not turning the water pump?

[@williamturner2617]

The cast iron heads made great torque. A 400 crankshaft in the 351 block with the iron heads would make a great looking sleeper.

[@restomod101]

Hi Jack! Dyno has its own electric water pump. When it’s on the Dyno the engine water pump only acts as a manifold.

[@restomod101]

Thanks for commenting! Please like and subscribe, need all the help we can get!

[@RonaldReed-ul9du]

Yeah, the Stock heads were 2V turd heads. Gee Wizz, I wonder why they didn't Compare the super flowing actual Hi perf 4v heads?

[@gersonhay984]

What was the RPM.

[@davebodi]

Can you have roller rockers AND roller lifters ?

[@lonniemonroe2714]

Yes

[@notme5909]

Cool.....

[@restomod101]

Thanks for commenting! Please like and subscribe so we can make more!

[@PeteGodley]

Sucked considering the change to aluminum heads, roller rockers and different cam. Torque was down (!) with only 24 HP increase??? Not worth it or parts weren’t properly matched

[@gordocarbo]

How can someone complain about the cost of an Edelbrock head then tell OP he should have used CHI? Mayron lol Eddy heads are fine, good replacement heads, affordable that make a little more. Have meat on them if you wanna port and are usa made.

[@kimmorrison9169]

The wonderful SOHC 427 was banned by NASCAR because overhead cam engines were not allowed. You would think someone at Ford would read the rule book.

[@bobkonradi1027]

The man is totally off base at the start of the video when he talks about the SOHC 427 Ford. They were never approved by NASCAR, they were never allowed on the track even the first time. NASCAR's theory was that things were getting out of hand with more and more exotic cylinder heads. Chrysler was allowed to get away with hemi heads because over a million MoPars had actually been built with these heads as stock. items from 1952 through 1958. Then a pause of 6 years of wedges only, followed by the 426 hemi in 1964. But if Ford got the SOHC 427, then Chrysler already had a DOHC 426 with 4 valves per cylinder, and who knows what would happen after that.?

[@deadon4847]

Nascar let them run test laps and told them they would have to add 400 lbs. of weight to the cars to slow them down.

[@ksacky]

Not good numbers after all the changes, lot of money spent for only 50 horses

[@neilmugridge3168]

is edelbrock paying for this show,its like an edelbrock commercial.There are more genuine shows

[@sorshiaemms5959]

@@neilmugridge3168 850 holley would have worked better even 2v cleveland heads work good just do a little porting

[@raginroadrunner]

Ive got a 351C. But why are we messing with 50 plus year old engines? The C only lasted 4 years and was...,Gone!

[@restomod101]

Oh simple…because it’s fun! Thanks for the comment. Please like and subscribe so we can make more! Now go tackle that 351c you have!

[@raginroadrunner]

My 351,C is being pulled.A 289 is under construction as its replacement.

[@douggard6337]

Total Eldelbrock advertisement. Those were 2V open chamber cast heads not 4V quench 1970 DOAE-N heads. Comparison is total BS. Let's see those Edelbrock heads up against a set of ported polished 3 angle cut back cylinder valve relieved head....... and 4V head specific custom cam with correct valve springs 4V intake, 750 carb 4V based carb. Not knocking the Edelbrock based build numbers here thry are impressive no surprise here lighter weight heads awesome just saying like to see apples to apples comparison.

[@craigpennington1251]

All that cash ($) and headache for under a 100hp, NO. I'll keep my carb. and NO more electronics than necessary thank you.

[@matthewmoilanen787]

So you changed the stock 351M open chamber heads that nobody uses for a very expensive aftermarket set of Edelbrock heads with roller rockers and only gained 25 HP. Seems like a monstrous waste of time of money to me. Maybe just a set of actual closed chamber Cleveland heads and wala the same result. Kinda goofy test it seems to me.