Hawken Muzzleloader Kit Preview Coming Summer/Fall 2025

Coming soon - summer or fall of 2025!! Kibler Hawken Kit
In this video Jim goes over the details and design so far. To get on the list, sign up here.
airtable.com/a...
Here are some of the details so far:
Barrel length: 31-32" and slightly swamped
Breech: 1 1/16"
Muzzle: 7/8 - 15/16"
Buttplate width: 1 5/8"
Hooked vertical breech with keys
All iron with all parts CNC machined except trigger guard, hammer and buttplate which will be cast
Engraved details on furniture
Percussion lock only with Late Ketland machined internals (different bridle)
Half-stock with hollowed under rib that will screw to the barrel
Length of pull: 13.5"
Drop at buttplate: 3.6"
Drop at comb: 1.9"

[@jacobwilbert1018]

Finally a genuine hawken type rifle available for my generation. You guys are true pioneers changing the industry and putting the bar up where it should be. Thank you 💙

[@kiblerjim]

Wow-thanks for the compliment

[@jacobwilbert1018]

@kiblerjim You earn it

[@craigoldsen1667]

I am 77 years old my birthday is coming up in February. I’ve been chasing the Hawken ghost since back in the mid 70s when John Baird was still wet behind the ears. My present Hawken is from Western arms corporation which was in Santa Fe New Mexico back in the day. This Kibler copy-cat will likely be the last rifle I ever purchase. Thank you so much for finally making one the way it should be made!

[@peghead]

Baird published his book "Hawken Rifles, The Mountain Man's Choice" in 1969.

[@peghead]

Correction; Baird's book was published in 1968.

[@jimkibler786]

Ha! Thanks for the post.

[@AirsoftEli2000]

Wish I could find a way to show you my builds without taking a day. All my stocks are hand carved band sawed blanks the rest is sharp chiseled and rasped. Barrels are from Hoyt or Whitaker as most of my builds have the Skirmisher in mind. I build what no one else does Confederate built arms that are not manufactured in Italy all home built. All thinks it take a year for a build but if you keep after it mabe 1 month or less. Always wanted 1 of your kits to sample your work. Locks cut from plate steel springs sometimes hand made. Been building since child hood Wallace Gustler my hero along with Hershal House both great gun smith's. Would love to hook up and help keep the history of muzzle loading arms alive and well. Robert Filbet is me from Winchester Va. Great job!

[@darrellmorse1894]

@@peghead I have a copy also.

[@calebswartz6273]

Yes, yes, and yes!! "If Jim Kibler worked at the Hawken Shop." Perfect statement! You may get grief from the "purists", but the refinements you're going to put in place will up the game of the originals while staying within historical boundaries. So good and so creative, WELL DONE!!!

[@BrandonJager]

Unfortunately I got off on the wrong foot with Jim Kibler on my first purchase due to being new to Longrifles and gun building. I wish I’d have kept my mouth shut and trusted him. I feel I know a little bit more now than back then, and one thing is for sure, this man never ceases to amaze me with his designs and ingenuity. great job Jim, and sorry again for the bad review. (I still wish I could remove it, but maybe I can make up for it with a few good ones!)

[@jimkibler786]

It's okay. Sometimes these misunderstandings just happen. If we can ever help you in the future, just let us know.

[@harrycombs2724]

Being a long time owner of Hawken rifles since the 70s I'm just a black powder lover. You build the best guns on the market today hands down. The only thing I dislike about my Hawken rifles is the weight number one and the 1:48 twist rate which is a crossover scatter gun in my opinion. I'm loving the semi swamp barrel you mentioned for off hand shooting and hoping when the offers happen that you will consider the proper twist rates rather than the Hawken middle of the road thought for back in the day. I can't wait to build another one! Thanks Jim!

[@galenhisler396]

I definitely would like to see a 58 cal. I can't wait to see the finished product. You are awesome at what you do . Thank you for the update.

[@kiblerjim]

Thanks! We're planning on offering that caliber.

[@galenhisler396]

@kiblerjim that's awesome, I have a colonial and a woodsrunner. Love them both .

[@gamingpentagon]

Dont know if youll ever see this, but used to live right down the way from you without ever knowing it, adore the work you do would be amazing to see in person. Keep up the amazing work brother!

[@jimkibler786]

Thanks! Where did you live?

[@samueldamewood5273]

I'm very happy to see a "Hawken" entering your lineup. Like many of us I started my ML game with a Hawken back in the late 70's, and it makes an easy into for the ML branch of shooting. Not a Hawken guy myself any more but it will make it easier to get some of my friends into muzzle loading and with a Kibler as opposed to something of lesser quality. Congratulations are in order.

[@kiblerjim]

Thanks, we appreciate the encouragement!

[@Ken-xm1rf]

And here I was, thinking I didn't need another Hawken style rifle. LOL Looking forward to this!

[@mikemehaffey9693]

Back in the 1970 when I was in High School, I saw what I wanted when I got out & got a job. It was a Ithaca/Hawken. I saw one advertised in the pages of the American Rifleman. By the time I had enough money to buy one, I could no longer find one for sale & nobody knew anything about them. Hopefully I have found my long lost love with this one.

[@bobhart1155]

After watching this video and hearing Jim's commentary, I'm excited about this project and can't wait for it to go into production. Consider me to be a future customer for this piece.

[@ByronRodgers-p3w]

Excitedly waiting Jim and Kathrine. I cannot wait to get one of these in my hands.

[@ctibbs53]

It design looks beautiful, and I can't wait to see your finished work

[@johnparkman8150]

Love the Hawken...I have a Woodsrunner and a .32 caliber Southern Mountain Rifle...I am even more excited to see that pistol on your desk...hoping that a pistol is the next kit you make...that would be awesome!!!!

[@RonOhio]

A brace of Kibler flint pistols would be very nice.

[@kiblerjim]

Thanks! We're looking at it!

[@garyspringfield9991]

Excellent news, especially like the idea of a " trim" Hawken with a hunting weight of 8-8 1/2 lbs. With 32" bbl should be a nimble all-purpose gun. I plan to order mine in .58

[@kiblerjim]

Perfect

[@soperific]

Captured barrel keys and patch boxes are always a nice touch.

[@andrewlloyd2604]

The extra touches you add to your rifles, shotguns, the extra mile you go sets the Kiblers apart from others, the engraving on your brass and, extra carving sets your kits at the top of the scale. Thank you for offering these extras at the same price....AJL

[@jimkibler786]

Thanks!

[@wasatchretrievers4035]

I built my Heavy Hawken right before my Fowler. At 11.5 pounds of steel and wood she's a big haul into the Elk country. I call the two "Beauty and the Beast" Very interested in lightening the load but with the same appeal. Keep up the good work.

[@xcount1964]

Can't wait to see this come to fruition! My first muzzleloader was a Hawken which I still have decades later. Thinking it needs a stable mate when this is available. Great job Jim!

[@patgoodrum6838]

Yay!!!!!!! I've made and own two Kibler rifles (Southern Mountain and the Colonial). I really appreciate Jim's movement into shorter guns, which will appeal to an even larger audience. I'm looking forward to the new Hawken design for sure!

[@shadetreemech290]

I love my Thompson Center Hawking. I got a great deal on it back in 1992 and it fits me well. I've since taken several deer with it.

[@rickharper6320]

Great news !!!!! Definitely getting a .58 !!!!!

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Excellent!

[@jimhonaker2603]

Already on the list, and will happily add this to the rifles I build, shoot, enjoy! Thanks Jim!

[@putnro01]

This is something I've wanted from Kibler since I bought my SMR.

[@kiblerjim]

Thanks for sticking with us!!!

[@barryscott990]

Me too just the same!

[@putnro01]

@@kiblerjim 15:37 "The goal is to make something that's very very beautiful, very very precise, works fantastic, handles fantastic, but then still have the details and the vocabulary of work that was done…during that time period, but maybe just a little step up." In short, a Kibler.

[@BobMcGranor]

Are you planning on a flint later on?

[@01Sassoon]

Yes Please !! I’ve never built a kit of any kind, but I’m going to start saving now !!

[@johnmuffy2848]

jIm, what a rifle. I looked pretty carefully and the only thing missing, is, the swail on the hand grip, from cheek piece to front grip It was the signature on hawken rifles. It made the rife stand out. Any one who knows the rifles, knows of this. It was sam and jacob's signature. One who knows, grabs the rifle over the swail. Looks good for sure. I live a little down the way from Samuel's first shop. Its pretty cool.

[@jrexplores5488]

Love the all iron decision! Should be a very good looking gun

[@nct5724]

Great ideas and approach to your next offering..You do beautiful work Jim, and I.can't wait to order one and put it together. My Woodsrunner was the best thing I have ever completed from a "kit".

[@davidaguiar1387]

Sooo looking forward to the Kibler Hawken. Looks like you've nailed a great mix of acknowledging what is historically accurate with the "wants" of customers with a more modern want list. I'm really liking the thought of a sub 9#, 45 cal with engraved iron hardware , fine details and nice wood. I'm on the waitlist already! ...and it's different enough from my svelte and graceful Southern Mountain Rifle to justify "needing" one :-)

[@ShepFL002]

Where do you sign up for waitlist?

[@frankkalisz7455]

I will certainly buy your Hawken when it’s available. I’ll probably go with .58 caliber to hunt with a good sized patched round ball.

[@ricko25234]

That looks very similar to my 54 cal Jim Bridger Hawken!! Love the browned barrel!!

[@Noncenx]

So happy to hear this. I was at the point of thinking of getting one from the Hawken Shop since I didn't think one was on the horizon from Kibler.

[@kiblerjim]

Thanks for the support!

[@Bayan1905]

Here I am saving up for a Woodsrunner and you go and tempt me with something like this. Well, we can live on bologna and SPAM for a while.

[@johnparkman8150]

You can't go wrong with a Woodsrunner...just about finished mine and it is beautiful!!!

[@kiblerjim]

We'll see if you can resist!

[@ericbrabham3640]

Yeah, love my colonial and have been waiting for the hawken to be announced. I am so happy to hear about this project taking legs.

[@usmcchet]

Can't wait my old Hawken I bought used may years ago died so this kit is very welcome. Having no brass is a definite selling point

[@kiblerjim]

We will get you fixed up! Thanks!

[@Brett-v6v]

No question you and your team's attention to detail, and no compromise attitude are top shelf...and I feel bad making any suggestions because of that fact.. I would like an option for an adjustable elevation rear sight and optional twist rate barrel even if i have to purchase separately...cause I utilize sabots snd your barrels are agsun top shelf...anyway love your stuff...I get your making a historical piece. Thank you...

[@mr.somebody1493]

Much respect for what you do.

[@georgelynn2413]

I look fwd. To this. I am on my second build right now using various off the shelf parts. I have often wondered if you might do one of these. Hopefully I will be able to build one of yours. It would be a keeper for sure. Just turned 80 so would be my last build. God luck with these.

[@bobbyscott8024]

''It would be like if Jim Kibler were working at the Hawken's Shop''?..........exactly!

[@kbowen2251]

Glad to see y'all branching out! Plus easily one of the most popular historical rifles in my opinion.

[@kiblerjim]

Thanks!

[@northmantru6236]

This is really exciting. I was skeptical of another “Hawken” but this looks like a fantastic hunting rifle. Fixing the balance problem inherent in Hawken rifles as well as the weight issue will make this a favorite. I know Jim has said percussion only but man I wish it was coming in flint.

[@keithplumley2054]

I've always wanted a Kibler ML but prefer percussion over flint. This new kit has my CC trembling.

[@BackwoodsBonding]

Looks great Jim! Thank you for all you do!

[@daveo.6659]

I'd love to see this when you get it completed. Back before ill health put an end to my having fun doing this kind of thing, I used to build hand made replicas of them and made my own barrels. I used to run a custom black powder barrel making shop and made custom rifles. Your shop is making custom grade rifles available to a lot more black powder shooters.

[@chipandrews2892]

Absolutely awesome!! I have three of your rifles already and I can't wait until this one comes out! Eventually, I will add the Fowler...it's just not as high on my list as this new one coming out!

[@johnvaness8445]

That's going to be a really nice looking rifle, Jim!

[@kiblerjim]

Thanks!

[@Brandansquests]

.58 hawken !!! I’m ordering!

[@graygildner3434]

Im new to this kit building world. My first kit was a Traditions Hawken. It came out great thanks only to excellent KZbin videos. The quality of the wood was very disappointing. I built a Traditions 1861 Springfield - another excellent learning experience but again poor quality wood. I have a Kibler Woodsrunner and can’t wait to build with some really quality wood. I bet this Hawken will be fantastic.

[@bavariasuhl]

Selb made my flintlock full stock and my percussion full stock - both hawkens - they are wonderful

[@populustremula7496]

I bought an SMR in .36 caliber because my hunting days are long over and because I wanted something that would be economical to practice marksmanship. I’m totally captivated with my rifle and shoot it practically every day. I had no plans to ever get another muzzleloader. And then this comes along. As a kid growing up mostly in Ohio I read everything I could lay hands on about the Kentucky frontier and about the mountain men out west. I moved to western Colorado in 1974 and most of my hunting friends got into Hawken style muzzleloaders to take advantage of being early into the woods for elk. But I never found the weapons appealing aesthetically and the large calibers didn’t appeal to me either. A lot of people commenting are beginning to suggest features so I might as well too. I’d like to see the Kibler Hawken style rifle offered in .40 caliber to keep the recoil light, the shooting economical and so it meets the smallest caliber allowed for hunting in many states. Other than that, I fully trust Jim’s aesthetic sensibilities, design skills and execution of the final product. Perhaps a flintlock option down the road would be appropriate and given how barrel removal appears rather easy on the Hawken perhaps the ability to purchase a barrel with a touch hole and a stock that accepts both a flint and a percussion lock would make for some interchangeability so one wouldn’t have to purchase a whole other gun.

[@STMwoodturning]

Looking forward to seeing the final design and a finished rifle.😊

[@1973hondacb450]

This is going to be so neat! Can’t wait

[@darrellmorse1894]

Just got my Woodsrunner today. If you build a 1/2 stock flint Hawken, I will purchase one. Keeping the rifle weight down is important for us old guys. Nice work!

[@d.pierce.6820]

This will be my fifth Kibler kit-I signed up on the list as soon as I heard about it!

[@JESSE-uw7np]

Kibler Hawken !!!!!! yeeeeeee ha ! fantastic .

[@jimkibler786]

Thanks for the encouragement!

[@kirkethridge2500]

its going to be a real winner! i don't like the buttstock either,,, but love the mountain main era rifles..

[@jimkibler786]

Thanks

[@heeeersjohnny]

I’ll be buying one when they come out. It will be my third : )

[@colinarmstrong1892]

It's interesting that what you showed would be very typical of a "Park rifle" here in the UK. I had a .50 calibre one for a few years, and it handled very well, so I expect yours will do the same.

[@Herbert-g8j]

Not a Hawkins fan but what your doing with the design your after will definitely be a seller. I'm not a new shooter , I built my first one in 1069 it was a musket

[@aidendelong5869]

Cant wait!!!

[@JamesSmith-mz9ec]

Saving my pennies!

[@kiblerjim]

Awesome thanks!

[@desertrat2020]

Just got on the list. Can’t wait!

[@megarouge61]

Great concept! Much needed in my opinion

[@richstone2627]

Del Gue approves. Thank you

[@walterkucharski4790]

Not too sure about engraving but a toe plate is a must and a nice beavertail cheekrest. I will order a .50. cal. If I like the final design. I built a great full custom .54 back in the 70's I lost it in a burglary. Can't wait.

[@jimkibler786]

Thanks. Engraving will likely be an option.

[@Peter-od7op]

Great interview. Go for it get production

[@thatsthewayitgoes9]

Your buttplate design is excellent. A note: I remember hanging out at the old Milwaukee museum as a kid, many hours. Of course the firearms were major attraction for me. So, I was looking at originals, I guarantee you. Milwaukee had a very good original arms collection. To show you the extent of the old original firearms, the museum had WONDERFUL full size dioramas of historical events. One was a huge full size diorama of Concord 1775 battle. The human models had actual original revolutionary war weapons representing that day. The guns of mountain men, early Western expansion displayed at the Milwaukee museum, again were all originals. And I can tell you there was NO consistent pattern. They ranged from very stoutly built heavy heavy barrels down to military style stocks showing that influence, with trigger guards more like Pennsylvania rifles ( with larger trigger hoop) and a normal size octagon barrel. Hawken? I think there were more than several makers and I knew the pattern when I saw it; but at the collection at the museum there must’ve been almost a dozen and none were the same. That heavy barrel one, I can’t even imagine a horse carrying it , let alone a man. And no, it wasn’t a “target rifle”. Maybe for on a river boat or for a wall gun at a station or fort. Must’ve weighed 12 lbs

[@thatsthewayitgoes9]

I reread my post, not that it matters; but, when I was trying to describe the huge size barrel in the Milwaukee museum ‘hawken’ (although not likely made by Hawken) . The barrel must’ve been over 1 1/4” straight could’ve been 1 1/2” straight. And my estimate, for what it’s worth, probably would’ve been 14 - 16 lbs. I wish I could go back to that old Milwaukee museum with those really great full size dioramas . And all the upper rooms with museum stuff.

[@TomCramer-xu8tx]

Exciting!!!

[@jimbooz4231]

Looks good Jim!

[@kiblerjim]

Thanks for watching!

[@NathanTruax-v9f]

I always thought Hawken's were overrated, epically a cap lock, I gave up caps long ago! That said, darn if you don't have me wanting a Kibler Hawken!!! Now let's see a Transitional or Jager! Great work, love what you guys are doing!

[@kiblerjim]

Thanks! We'll keep that in mind.

[@mascasa7502]

Cool. Hoping you'll offer a mid- to late- 1600s fowler in the future. The Dutch imported alot of flintlocks to the New World. Thanks for your products.

[@jimkibler786]

I love this period!

[@jimkibler786]

I love this period too!

[@michaelrousseau4958]

Look forward to the kit

[@MrDorodongo]

I believe I heard it mentioned that this Hawken kit will only be offered with a Percussion Lock, which I gather is historically accurate as there aren’t any known Hawken flintlocks that are in existence. I’m hoping that you will consider making a flintlock version of the kit eventually, for those who hunt the flintlock season in Pennsylvania.

[@darrellmorse1894]

Jake Hawken made full-stock flint rifles prior to the percussion models. I also hope for a 1/2 stock flint model.

[@paulr898]

I am loving it, and I want one, 54 caliber - 32"

[@kenfochtman8698]

Thanks Jim!

[@406life]

Take my money now😊

[@TomRiddle-ww5on]

Congratulations on the new rifle. Im one thats too scared to attempt a flintlock build as my first flintlock. Im interested in a percussion rifle as iv had a few Thompson/ center for hunting.

[@kiblerjim]

Thanks, you'll have a great time with it!

[@GumSloughMuzzleloader]

I was too afraid to do a flintlock. I finally just bought a Kibler Colonial, and it was easy and fun. Don't cut yourself short. I did 2 more after my Colonial. Just do it. You'll be glad ya did.

[@LightningGB93]

Will be looking to get on your list to purchase one of the Hawken’s Great Job

[@kiblerjim]

Thanks for your interest!

[@jenniferwhittaker9077]

Add me to the list

[@blackriflex39]

my first bp was a tc hawken flint lock , it turned me on to this wonderful style of rifles... ...but it always left me with the feeling of desiring a little better representation of a true hawken ,... not to take away from the hawken design debut from kibler long rifles but do you think you guys will release a pistol in the coming years? maybe a dragoon flinter or a kentucky style ... you guys are awesome keep up the good work

[@raulmorales9967]

Thanks for the update.

[@49Kayaker]

This will be my sixth Kibler and this video answers most of the questions I had about the upcoming Hawken Rifle except one. Price?

[@jimkibler786]

Probably similar to our other offernings

[@stevenhorden1113]

Gonna be a good looking hawken rifle.

[@mojomike3913]

I will have one! Hunter's star inlay in the cheek piece and the key finials would be cool.

[@slipkidslats]

I would like to know what the twist will be? Great work Jim!

[@lbanks68]

Awsome news!

[@allencampbell4460]

Sounds really nice. Curious to see how it compares to the Signature Series Great Plains Rifle. I'm looking forward to ordering a Kibler Hawken

[@patrickrowan1249]

Have you decided on the barrel twist? Originals were 1 in 48 twist. I like the looks of the sights!

[@Dad-lj4kj]

Hopefully the Hawken toe plate will be added at some point …

[@loupuleff571]

Looks great I'll get one for sure. make sure you have enough room to get a gloved finger on the trigger please.

[@kiblerjim]

With a set trigger you won't need to push your finger all the way in the bow but we will take a look. With a set trigger, I wouldn't recommend gloved fingers anyway because you can't feel exactly what you are doing.

[@robertmalmgren4640]

Been watching closely on Internet forums as to this project ,glad to see what you have come up with. I have sworn off percussion due to cap shortages but will be ordering one of yours in 58. Is a brown bess still a possibility?

[@jimkibler786]

Hopefully we'll be able to source a large quantity of caps at some point to help this situation. As to a Brown Bess, it's definitely still a possibility

[@davidlewis9572]

I can’t wait , get my pennies together. What barrel twist ? 1-66 or 1-70 ish . Full length stock option , patch box ? Going to be a great rifle kit or finished .

[@gerald5344]

I really like the idea of a Hawken rifle that's been improved by the critical eye of a master gunmaker and produced with modern precision engineering. Make mine in .58, stocked in maple, please. EDIT: I'm guess I'm not the only one who tried to track down a copy of the "Great Gunmakers for the Early West" book set Jim shows here, ha! I discovered used copies of the set are available right now from used-book dealers for immediate purchase, but are exorbitantly expensive ($500 to $1000). For those interested, the Museum of the Mountain Man in Pinedale, Wyoming currently has sets on backorder from their distributor, per the staffer I talked to these will remain list price ($300) when they come in. Their museum store sells a well-curated selection of other books on the history of the era, definitely worth checking out online.

[@Catboy-hr2qp]

Do the fowler kits still have a huge lead time? Ive been holding off getting one until you hopefully made the fitting videos for them and the lead times came down some

[@mattulberg1223]

Looks like a great project that has been much anticipated! Would you make your percussion lock an option for some of your full stocked rifles? I’m a flinch n boomer with a flinter but love a percussion Kentucky!

[@jimkibler786]

There has been quite a bit of interest, so we might do this in time. Thanks

[@Trapperstone]

Yesssss!!!!!

[@jamesvatter5729]

As a PA hunter, I'm disappointed to hear this one won't be available in flintlock.

[@MrDorodongo]

I’m in agreement with you. I hope a flintlock version may be offered at some future date.

[@martins.3464]

You can get an SMR, Colonial, Woodsrunner, or a Fowler. All flintlocks. I envy you for having a PA flintlock only season. We have to compete with inlines (an abomination) in Texas.

[@MrDorodongo]

⁠@@martins.3464 I have a Colonial I built early on when that was the only kit Jim had out. I also do plan to build a Woodsrunner probably later this year. I just would love a Hawken variant in Flintlock, too.

[@martins.3464]

@@MrDorodongo Fair enough.

[@gig1958]

I've waited a couple of days since watching this trying to decide whether to comment but a couple of things need to be said. If you use the buttplate as shown with the "washed over", rounded over heel instead of the straight,sharp tip as on the originals the entire look of the stock will be greatly diminished. The same issue exists on the SMR. Reference the Carson/Masonic Lodge or the Carson/Beale rifles. I cut the top return off the SMR plate and added a straight,sharp tipped piece on the one I assembled. Since it was not mentioned in the video, I would hope that some effort was made to examine an original rifle at some point and not just a modern copy. You made the effort on the Fowler and a rifle as significant as the Hawken deserves the same. Toe plate should be standard, "pineapple" end on the trigger plate and engraving should be optional.Would have liked to see a machined hammer on the first Kibler percussion lock. These comments are offered with all due respect and recognition of your previous achievements. Matthew Onks

[@jimkibler786]

Wow! You seem very sure of yourself! Perhaps a little too sure. I can't say I agree with too much you've said...

[@jimkibler786]

Mathew. A few more comments... You use the word "should" a lot in your comment. I assume this is based on comparing my designs to original work. Did you not catch the part where I said I would not be following all original designs? I won't apologize for this. I believe the changes I've made as a whole lead to a significant improvement. If you don't agree, that's fine, but please refrain from telling me how it "should" be done. More specifically, you are absolutely wrong with the buttplate on our SMR. This closely follows designs used by Whitson, the gun used for inspiration. I would be happy to share photos. As to the our Hawken buttplate, I prefer this slightly radiused heal. This was an intentional design choice and in no way feel it diminishes the look of the buttstock. Now to the finials on the guard / trigger plate... Though not a copy of any Hawken designs, the design elements used in this fit VERY well in the period and general geographic area. Further, I think they are very believable as compared to Hawken work. On a related note, you do realize there were other toeplate designs other than a pineapple, don't you? As to engraving, that's certainly a personal opinion. The good thing is that I get to make that choice along with all others! Perhaps you mean well, but you come across like an ass.

[@usmcm60a1]

@@jimkibler786 Wow...an "ass" ...not much for constructive criticism huh Jim ?

[@darrellmorse1894]

@@usmcm60a1 With Jim building and engineering it, maybe the new design will drastically improve the rifles handling and improve the natural shooting instincts for the buyer. Reducing the weight will be a blessing for us older generation guys that benefit from a lighter gun weight. As I watched the video, and listened to Jim's comments, the rifle's design is a combination of past history coupled with modern design and ideas for today's shooters. Everyone gets an opinion, however, very few are making the firearms. I currently am working on a Woodsrunner and will add a Hawken later.

[@joepayne7843]

I'm excited !!! 58caliber hawken. I need a tree stand rifle.

[@SirMillz]

When will these kits be available and for how much $? Looks beautiful, thank you