How Stealth Rock Changed Pokemon Forever.

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Pokemon Competitive Singles was changed forever after the release of the move "Stealth Rock" in the Generation 4 games. No single move has had as significant of an impact on the way the entire game is played than Stealth Rock did. Let's explore why that was.
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Some will never figure out how to get Jumpluff in Pokemon Scarlet and Pokemon Violet. But famous player Jim Cool is well aware of the Best Jumpluff Moveset in Competitive, and even how to Jumpluff Shiny Farm. Many aren't and never will be. That's just the unfortunate reality of the world.
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Gholdengo is a Pokemon made of pure gold. He must have done some online business management courses to accumulate all that wealth. Or perhaps he might want to learn how to make money playing video games on KZbin. In any case, he's a powerful metagame force, with absolutely no interest in online game development schools.
#competitivepokemon #pokemonshowdown #gen3

[@jimothycool]

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[@99sonder]

Gen 3: You need a rock resist Gen 4-5: You need all rock resists Gen 6-7: You need an industrial fan to blow away all these pebbles Gen 8-9: You need timbs

[@turkoositerapsidi]

Rock types should resist rock and even better be as well immune to stealth rock.

[@knightsteyri9110]

@@turkoositerapsidiThey should break Stealth Rock on switch in.

[@turkoositerapsidi]

@@knightsteyri9110 That could work as well, but would it make rock types too op if the type effectiveness chart would be changed like that rock would be better defence type, maybe not as good as steel but still.

[@benjulesrun9057]

rapid spinners are really out here like "I can't clear these hazards, there's a ghost"

[@hps362]

It's a frightening prospect.

[@oolureoo]

​@@hps362*frighteNEIGHng prospect (Get it? Because of Spectrier? 😭🤦)

[@RuggedRing]

"I can't spin right now. There's a ghost over there."

[@ufailowell]

Mortal spinners are like "I can't clear these hazards, there's some steel"

[@ufailowell]

Tidy uppers be like "that guy said 'bet you won't hit me'"

[@dorcgod9517]

These sneaky pebbles really rocked the foundation of competitive singles, folks. This is insane.

[@turkoositerapsidi]

Rock types should resist rock and be immune to stealth rock.

[@MenwithHill]

Stealth rock is a terrible name because you see them go up and they have an extremely noticeable impact. I prefer my name for the move : Baneful Boulders

[@Lucian0angel0]

It’s different in the anime. If the rocks are so visible. Why is moltres flying right into them ?

[@turkoositerapsidi]

Stealth rock is not visible at all in the modern games the rocks became invisible after they are set. Have you blocked the animations in your games?

[@helloyoutube6967]

I like how angry Jimothy sounds when he mentions the damage Pokémon take from Stealth Rock. He really has a lot of passion against this move

[@Dragostorm21]

Iron juglius is rocks weak. Coincidence?

[@rubenmatinezlopez2662]

Its probably what keeps him playing Gen 3 xD

[@Begeru]

It’s just stupid how certain Pokémon are screwed for taking 50% damage

[@mashonem]

@@Begerumost of the mons taking 50% were unviable to begin with

[@JeffroBaggins]

I’ve literally never understood how it was never banned, considering how completely busted and centralizing it is.

[@CantusTropus]

The funniest thing is that Stealth Rock is just the TM for the first gym, like they clearly had no intention of making such a powerful move.

[@findtheblue]

I think they knew what they were doing with competitive but also knew that SR sucks ass in game

[@emperortoho]

@@findtheblue SR is pretty good ingame, but it’s not nearly as relevant makes sense for it to be a 1st gym move, it’s a good utility option throughout the entire game but it isn’t broken

[@matiasrivas1692]

Although maybe they realized their mistake early. Fast forward to HGSS and you cannot get stealth rock until Kanto, maybe they knew it would cheese Lance

[@BlazeEmerald]

Should have thought about Bird Master Lance when they were designing sneaky pebbles : P

[@TaLeng2023]

Yeah when I got it I was like "This is useless"

[@Mijzelffan]

I have an inkling the horse council has financial connections to Old Money, this should be investigated.

[@TheSheepling]

"This feels like icing on a cake that already had two layers of icing on it to begin with. The cake is good enough but this life ruining extra layer of icing has shattered many Pokémon that were once usable." I love you Jim.

[@BiffTheBanana]

I really hope Meganium and Horsea are able to reunite. It would be saddening if Horsea did not remember their childhood friend.

[@CoNteMpTone]

I wonder if their boyfriend, Glastrier, would be cool about horsea meeting another competitive threat.

[@Magikarpador]

I just hope Iron Horsius stays out of this

[@CoNteMpTone]

@@Magikarpador Great Hoof and Raging Neigh will have a word to say about that.

[@floofzykitty5072]

The main problem with Stealth Rock's design is that it scales too harshly (exponentially!!!) for Rock weak pokemon. Every tier up from the base 12% should only increase by 6%, not double the previous tiers damage.

[@IWestrada]

Removing the x4 stealth rock weakness would be a great start to dialing it back. Even x2 damage is egregious.

[@gamingtime9716]

Stealth Rocks was meant as a counter to flying types, so why not just make it deal x2 damage to flying types and leave it there. No reason to hinder bug and ice types who are already atrocious

[@turkoositerapsidi]

Rock types should resist rock moves and be immune to stealth rock moves effect.

[@aldrichunfaithful3589]

i'll always believe that stealth rock was the greatest mistake in pokemon history. gen 3 hazards were perfect already and if they wanted t-spikes or webs fine, but gen 4 rocks did way too much damage to everything and made half the type chart unviable, then as a result of that gen 5 made a bunch of op magic guard users, gen 6 had to add a super free hazard removal option, then gen 8 added boots which completely ruined everything and focused the entire tier on defog corv, knock off and boots, then gen 9 gave us gholdengo which (regardless of how op or bad ghold is) fundamentally ruined the main counterplay and forced us into boots-centric teambuilding. at this point hazards are so overwhelming that counterplay is mandatory, and the only consistent form is boots which then ruins the entire point of hazards by allowing everything to ignore them, but not even that is consistent thanks to knock being so overpowered. so if you run balance without hazard stack + knock off you'll get outstalled and if you don't run mono boots you'll get worn down, and as a result the entire tier consists of either broken hyper offense, broken hazard stacking, broken boots stall or some cursed combination of all 3

[@emergencyexitonly2710]

Honestly if stealth rock only did half the damage it does now it would be way more balanced

[@aldrichunfaithful3589]

@@emergencyexitonly2710 the only reason why they made rocks is to punish flying/levitate users, so i would just make them deal 12.5% to those mons and 6.25% to grounded mons or something like that. but at this point rocks aren't even the issue, it's the mess that they've created since gamefreak is only willing to deal with problems by overcorrecting them with more problems. i think if we wanted to make hazards fun now without starting from scratch, either gamefreak needs to make it so good as gold doesn't block defog and boots only cancel out rock weakness, or smogon needs to ban gholdengo and have an item clause

[@BusinessSkrub]

Sounds like the literal exact opposite of fun. Why do y'all do this to yourselves??

[@aldrichunfaithful3589]

@@BusinessSkrub who's "y'all" exactly lol i didn't add rocks to the game

Excellent comment. Summarized very well the current state of the metagame

[@Scurrying_Snail]

I think stealth rock’s availability should be reduced much like knock off and scald recently

[@nobodyspecial2053]

And its answers given increased availability.

[@MD-vs9ff]

Needs to be Dexited.

[@afriendlycampfire260]

Only a limited amount of rock types should get them

[@goGothitaLOL]

@@afriendlycampfire260Rock types are usually shit cause of having 5 weaknesses, there’s only like 2 of them in OU and 2-3 of them in UU(BL) and all but one of them are offensive and never defensive It’s the Ground and Steel types that are problematic with their access to Rocks. When’s the last time you seen a Tyranitar or Terrakion throw out Stealth Rock Rock needs all the help they can get, Ground and Steel were already fine without Rocks.

[@Scurrying_Snail]

@@goGothitaLOL I agree, rock types only would be a good reduction, at least in theory

[@SchandDreo44]

Oh, you’re a fire/flying type? You’re half dead because you stepped on rocks.

[@turkoositerapsidi]

It's not stepping really, more like collision to them.

[@Xahnel]

Now now, lets not forget the bugs and ice types. Poor snom.

[@turkoositerapsidi]

@@Xahnel Frosmoth should be same stat total as volcarona. Snom isn't simple evolution by level up anyways.

[@Xahnel]

@@turkoositerapsidi ah, but frosmoth doesn't get an entire temple because it was worshipped by an ancient culture.

[@turkoositerapsidi]

@@Xahnel Who knows if that would exist in another region tho.

[@ddp9381]

jimothy before bed is always a lovely end to the day. thank you jim

[@dannyorrmedia]

Jimothy lunch break gang checking in from the UK.

[@mememaster3653]

Bro is in Australia

[@SussyBaka-nx4ge]

stealth rocks should just have been spikes that stack in the air instead of the ground as opposed to dealing rock-type damage

[@typemasters2871]

If stealth rocks was to be a set amount of damage instead of “damage depending on how weak the Pokemon is to rock types” then I would have it where it deals the equivalent of 2 layers of spikes on Pokemon that levitate or are flying type (and maybe acts as 1 additional layer of spikes for grounded Pokemon)

[@maskofthedragon]

9:24 Really shows how stupid Stealth Rocks are when flying types who are immune to most hazards are forced to wear the boots

[@segafreak2000]

Nah, this part is actually fair. It's exactly because they are immune to all other hazards that SR should damage them more.

[@ThisIsntAYoutuber]

I just wish it didn’t punish the other types, since THEY’re vulnerable to all the hazards including SR. (Like fire and bug)

[@afriendlycampfire260]

​@@segafreak2000at least make all of them take 12.5% if they are 2× weak and 25% if 4× weak and 6% they are not flying type

[@saladgaming4339]

@@afriendlycampfire260 at that point it's just worse spikes, 6% is healed by lefties in 1 turn

[@segafreak2000]

@@afriendlycampfire260 The issue with that is that a good number of Pokemon after gen 4 were balanced with SR damage in mind. The moment you lower that, they suddenly become MUCH more overbearing, especially if it allows them to conceivably chose an item different than Boots all of a sudden. That would make the meta even worse.

[@user-iq1wp2qy1t]

I can't belive meganium left the looooooong council just to reunite with his friend😢

[@jykatyk567]

That fucking Butterfree wearing shoes sent me a laughed out loud in the middle of the break room

[@JohnSmith-ik8nt]

Tard guard had to go grab you after right

[@ultimateaura7629]

Adding stealth rock was probably one of the biggest mistakes they made. Usually new moves are meant to create more diversity and make more pokemon viable, but stealth rock instead restricts what is usable

[@CaridorcTergilti]

yes, it should have done half the damage, (so standard is 6.25% or 1/16) because 1/8 for simply switching in is, well, insane

[@BestgirlJordanfish]

God I wish they would have an effect like toxic spikes, where a rock type could absorb stealth rocks. I kinda hate what this one move has done

[@turkoositerapsidi]

Rock types should be immune to the move.

[@Rubbly]

I remember looking up good movesets for some Pokemon when I was playing through a game casually (gen 5 but in 2015) it was my first time seeing the competitive sets and all that. Stealth rock EVERYWHERE, on seemingly EVERY MON that could fit it 😂 What an introduction to the competitive scene... (Edit: competitive, not competetive)

[@WingedFish66]

The other thing about Stealth Rock is that Game Freak absolutely LOVES shoving it into everything even where it doesn't belong. My favorite example is the fact that, for some reason, it’s in the Let's Go games, despite there being NO HAZARD REMOVAL. Same story for Legends Arceus. And even now it's not only survived Movexit, but it's still extremely available to a ton of mons compared to other popular and obnoxious moves like Scald, Knock Off and Toxic which have all had their distribution severely cut down thanks to moveset formatting BS. And just for one extra bit of salt in the wound, this includes Defog, so most mons are back to relying entirely on Rapid Spin to get rid of them of they don't want to wear boots

[@dse763]

And icing for the cake, they made Gholdengo, which completely deny any tentative of hazard removal by itself.

[@MaahirMomtaz12]

Then 4 generations later we got the answer to hazards

[@CefcaPalazzo]

Every new installment in the PokéMon series introduces significant mechanical change that naturally has a massive impact on competitive play.

[@naturalharmoniagropius4486]

Like the addition of Dark and Steel types in Gen 2

[@Gold-Dango]

And the addition of abilities in Gen 3, the list goes on

[@danismynewname]

But these are sweeping changes that you would expect to shake things up.

[@skillhunter4804]

And abilities in Gen 3

[@CobaltCruiser]

New moves can also be significant additions, but for the most part a single new move doesn't have too much of an impact

[@VivianKurayami]

I actually wonder what Gen 4, 5, 6, and 7 would've felt like without Stealth Rocks - or 8 and 9 without Stealth Rocks and Heavy Duty Boots.

[@xfdzfd4370]

Roark upon seeing how much the TM he gave out changed Pokémon forever: WHAT HAVE I DONE?!

[@DseanSupreme]

Stealth Rock meta is actually what made me put down competitive pokemon generations ago. Nice to see the meta eventually, after several generations , dealt with it.

[@armorbearer9702]

I like the idea that sending out a rock type Pokémon removes Stealth Rock.

[@godknightomega]

Rock Smash and/or Brick Break can be buffed to destroy Rocks. Heck let them deal double damage and have them turn into Rock type attacks to bypass Ghost types when Stealth Rock is active on your side of the field.

[@mysticmongrel1289]

In Yugioh, when a single card controls the metagame THIS much, it gets Forbidden. In Pokémon, when a single move controls the metagame this much, it's "just part od the game"

[@pmwaffle9348]

This is most definitely not true lol. Rocks is closer to something like ash blossom, maxx c, imperm or called by. It acts as a natural check/counterplay to otherwise oppressive or extremely consistent pokemon or strategies.

[@444tuneski]

@@pmwaffle9348i feel like this only further OP’s point, though. called by is semi-limited, crossout is limited, and maxx c is banned (in tcg) while i’m not entirely sure how oppressive stealth rock is in comparison to maxx c, they are both very oppressive and required when deck/teambuilding

[@pmwaffle9348]

@ree6267 maxx c limits combos & turn 1 board set-up if the person setting up the board can't 100% win that turn since the maxx c player draws a card for every special summon the other player does. Rocks function more like imperm or ash where it limits the opportunities available but it doesn't completely restrict it a la crossout or maxx c. Maxx C is probably most analogous to dlc1 gliscor where it will generate progress if you try to play around it so you have to be as direct as possible in your approach to not lose.

[@mysticmongrel1289]

@@pmwaffle9348 No, Rocks isn't like an Imperm or Ash, those are both 1 time uses. Rocks is more like a direct form of Skill Drain or Burden of the Mighty

[@pmwaffle9348]

@mysticmongrel1289 eh, one time is all you need since modern yugioh is so quick. Rocks function as a foil or disruption that can be played around (boots, hazard removal, ignoring it) but throws a wrench in your original game plan.

[@deinoccocuschoroy7312]

Stealth Rock could have a turn limitn like weather, limited uses (Like disapearing after doing damage 3 times) or at the least restricted to few pokemon (Like sticky web)

[@Dunco64]

I remember as i started learning singles i realized how important the rocks mini game was and it kind of bothered me for sure. Feels bad dedicating half your team slots to either setting hazards, preventing them and/or removing them. Now I'm used to it but i could see why a new player wouldn't enjoy the concept of a hazard meta game

[@Super_Top_Secret_Area]

Imagine if Pokémon above a certain weight could destroy Stealth Rock when they switch in. "Go, Steelix!" *heavy sound effect* "Steelix used the weight of its body to crush the stones on the field!" Also, give some physical moves the side effect of destroying rocks on the field: Hammer Arm, Karate Chop, Gigaton Hammer and well, Rock Smash.

[@alecrutz6979]

rock smash would probably end up being actually viable to use if it could destroy stealth rock.

[@ShadowXeldron]

Ah, Stealth Rocks. I was taught their overwhelming power at a very young age by a mandatory NPC trainer in X and Y who used a Carbink with rocks. I'd say that if Stealth Rocks did a solid 12% (or even just 10%) regardless of typing they'd be a bit more balanced. A single layer of spikes still does more damage . It's also important to note that Battle Spot 3v3 (the way they actually want you to play Singles; not a fan of that personally because I like having my full team of Pansage, Vaporeon, Amaura, Minun, Mega Aerodactyl and Phione thank you very much) uses an Item Clause so you can't just splash boots on everyone. Of course, Gen 3 not having Stealth Rocks is an asset of its own. I don't even play competitive (I mostly watch these videos for the funny mug), but while working on a ROM hack I feel no reason to actually add them when Spikes overall feel more rewarding and balanced.

[@JP-cp9xn]

I truly, TRULY hate stealth rock. I'm surprised it's even legal in most gens. 50% damage to certain mons is ridiculous and makes them borderline unusable

[@CoralReaper707]

I feel you. Stealth rock needs to do 33% to quad rock weak mons at most

[@jesuisintrinsequementpolar3242]

1100 at best

[@segafreak2000]

At this point, they are a necessary evil. A good number of mons weak to SR have been balanced around exactly that fact after gen 4, so if you removed them entirely, they'd suddenly run absolutely crazy around the meta and warp it even more now that their item slot is freed up again.

[@ThirdXavier]

Its too fundamental to how certain gens are played and it would also have rippling consequences to ban it that would likely require other bans to balance. For example in gen 4 where its strongest if you ban it Focus Sash now becomes the strongest item in the game on anything immune to spikes, even if sand is up theyd get an opportunity to revenge kill their own opponent, or theyre just straight up sand immune like Flygon and get guaranteed usage out of focus sash (unless your opponent has abomasnow for some reason)

[@pmwaffle9348]

​@@jesuisintrinsequementpolar3242seriously, this comment section reeks of people who haven't played mons much at all. If you've played any modern gens, you'll notice just how important rocks are to keeping things in check.

[@aldwych285]

I’m going to think of a very evil idea Make a Grass type Stealth Rock, GameFreak. I wanna see the dominant bulky Water and Ground types get obliterated

[@lordnewman8026]

Thistles or something could work. They would be fine as a grounded hazard imo, the intended targets for it are grounded.

[@Typh3621]

Thorny Vines. I suggested it in another video. Also have to keep it mutually exclusive or it would be way too powerful when stacked with SR

[@typemasters2871]

Rock, Grass, and Bug make for a type triangle with no weakness overlap Rock strong against Fire, Ice, Flying Bug Grass strong against Water, Ground, Rock Bug strong against Grass, Psychic, Dark So “Hidden Hive” would be a devious Bug Type Stealth Rocks

[@goGothitaLOL]

Rock-types: Dogshit even more cause of Grass-type Stealth Rocks existing Bug-types and Ice-types: “First time?”

[@lordnewman8026]

@@Typh3621 'mutually exclusive' like how terrain and weather overwrite the previous effect? If you have rocks up and use thorny vines, as you call it, the rocks disappear? That seems reasonable.

[@thewhatness]

Not this being a perfect corollary to False Swipe Gaming's video on how Heavy-Duty Boots are the remedy to all the effects discussed here.

[@itsfella5528]

I saw the title from the notification and automatically knew it was about stealth rock. It's one of the moves of all time

[@diva.5379]

you can tell this is something that truly upsets jim from the way his voice is raised through the entire video. he's usually so calm but that rock shaped wound in his heart is real

[@fufunumnum]

Why stop at stealth rocks? Surpricicles, sudden shower, shocking shock, secret sear, invisible ivy, spawncamp smack, etc

[@typemasters2871]

Hidden Hive

[@gregorymirabella1423]

Now spikes has eclipsed stealth rock in gen 9. If it weren't for boots then I think some hazards would actually need to be banned.

[@Jaycielantern]

your dry delivery of absolutely hilarious subscribe requests never ceases to impress and amuse me. I happily offer my 1 horsepower to meganium to get on the horse council.

[@GoldStorm07]

Stealth Rock feels like it should function as a complementary hazard to Spikes by hitting airborne Pokémon (Flying-types and Levitate users) for more damage. An entry hazard dealing type-based damage never made any sense at all.

[@LittleMountain90]

It's still crazy to me that Stealth Rock stands alone and is so format warping. This is pure armchair "how to fix Stealth Rock" design, but I've always felt for its impact it could stand to be a one-use Hazard. And then you could make a bunch of variants, like Stealth Steel (which existed in the form of Copperajah's G-Max Move) or Stealth Ice.

[@GoldStorm07]

There have probably been more "how to fix Stealth Rock" game design fanfiction videos than almost any other competitive Pokémon topic, and Game Freak is seemingly willing to introduce plenty of workarounds just short of altering the mechanics of the actual move itself.

[@typemasters2871]

Bring on more chaos Add Stealth Grass (Troublesome Thorns) and Stealth Bug (Hidden Hive) to complete a Rock-Grass-Bug type triangle with no super effective overlap

[@its_me_jamie]

Thank you for posting Jim! Brightening my day like Jimothy has Drought

[@NachoMountDewCat]

Me: "Hmm, how one move changed competitve pokemon? Suonds interesting." Me 2 seconds later: "Oh yea it is just going to be about stealth rocks."

[@fobbie8385]

What auspicious timing that this video and the False Swipe Gaming video on Heavy Duty Boots released on the same day as each other. Truly the perfect combination of intergenerational hazard analysis

[@spanner5686]

Heartbreaking Horse storyline Jimothy, made me cry.

[@thatsabruhmoment17]

"How ONE move changed competitive Pokemon forever" Agreed, ion deluge was meta defining and still is today

[@IIIXouIII]

Lower distribution of the move could be an elegant solution like they did to scald and toxik. If only some well choosed rock type could learned it for example.

[@curiousplatypus]

"Charizard....now thrown directly into the garbage" Never change Jim.

[@agustinmonardes8160]

I would like to know if Horsea would go for the same problems to be part of the Dinosaur Council and be together with Meganium

[@CoralReaper707]

I am still baffled stealth rock has 32 pp

[@goGothitaLOL]

And still does, whiling every recovery not named Strength Sap have their PP reduced from 16 to 8 (Rest included)

[@CoralReaper707]

@goGothitaLOL I've always found the PP nerf to recovery moves to be...odd. Can't say I'm a big fan of the nerfs. Stealth rock should've gotten its PP sliced in half, and the more "exclusive" recovery moves (soft-boiled, milk drink, and shore up) should've kept their 16 pp

[@boop53]

first, jimothy and fsg make videos with machamp on the same day. next, they talk about entry hazards on the same day. this is insane

[@Zwijger]

Wow I was thinking about this recently too, specifically about how interesting some metagames, specifically all the ones before heavy duty boots, would be with them banned.

[@piku2able]

What HDB have allowed, is making Knock Off, which was already one of the best moves in the game (arguably the best beside Scald) even better Hazard spam with Ting Lu or Gliscor + Garg (or even use the three on the same team). Or hell, just lead Glimmora, pair any of this mons with Gholdengo and a Knock spammer like RMoon, Meowscarada or Weavile and you’re free to go. This way they ‘re, imo, even better than in old gens

[@egbertmilton4003]

Ah yes, the dumbest hazard in the games. The fact that it’s so type specific in its damage to the point of annihilating certain Pokemon on switching is genuine poor design

[@mrtrollnator123]

Fire and ice types before stealth rock: 🙏🙏🙏🙏🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 Fire and ice types after stealth rock: ☠☠☠☠💀💀💀💀💀💀💀

[@jamesh7469]

Imagine a meta where spikes operated off the same type of weakness based damage system as rocks 😮

[@Zenarack]

Jimmy makes a video on rocks and false swipe makes a video on boots on the same day These youtubers gotta be in communication with each other

[@doma3554]

It would be interesting if someone made a variant of Gen 3 OU on Pokemon Showdown where Spikes became a Ground Type Move and they were eaten up by Ground Type Pokemon in a similar way to how Poison Type Pokemon eat up Toxic Spikes. Maybe it would make ground Types even more common, which would maybe increase the number of Rock Resists being used, as well maybe increasing the usage of Ice Beam, Surf, and Hidden Power Grass and Giga Drain.

[@dankinmcspankin3123]

the part in the video where its just two pokemon and he cracks a funny is the best part of the video

[@Youcallmedrunk]

Jimothy dropping a video on Stealth Rocks the same day FSG drops a video on Heavy Duty Boots 🤔

[@angelwings9549]

Jimothy has entered into the philanthropy business with this Meganium venture folks, we may be witnessing the rise of the next Mister Beast

[@Swiffah145]

Once Jim enters the horse council it’ll be game over for those furtive little fellas-the stinging stones are going to be banned

[@MakianTheWorld]

You know jim, ive never been a pokémon fan before and i still dont like the anime but thanks to many other pokemon channels and mainly yours, ive gotten a great appreciation for the game and am very interested in getting into competitive, so thanks for all the informative and funny videos

[@fillphd]

Flying types: don’t worry babe, he’s just a nerd! Spikes: why do they always pick thugs? *Gen 4* Flying types: hey baby, remember me? Stealth rock: BEAT IT CHICK

[@RockOrso2]

This is why I prefer Doubles more since not a lot of trainers spend turns on entry hazards, not just Stealth Rock.

[@arcuscotangens]

*sees title* oh, the sneaky pebbles!

[@nishant9289]

My suggestion would be to modify Stealth Rocks such that they settle down after 5 turns (or maybe 8?) and because redundant. That way, because most Stealth Rockers are Suicide Leads, maintaining Stealth Rocks would mean to let 3-4 pokémon run stealth rocks which will limit some Pokémon; Gliscor for example will be forced to fit Stealth Rocks by giving uo either Spikes, Toxic, Knock-off or Earthquake, making it more manageable.

[@DQplz]

Thanks for the video Jimothy

[@jumpinjeff1709]

Honestly, I wish they would make it a 2 turn move to set up, where the first layer has no impact until the move is used again. It allows for it to be a move where the opponent has to respond to the incoming hazard, but not just create so much immediate pressure where its ok to sacrifice an entire pokemon and it to be a good play.

[@AngryAyrab]

I think GameFreak realized that Rocks were insane 4 gens too late with the introduction of Heavy Duty Boots

[@loudthump6306]

This dude releases 130 high quality videos a day

[@Paws42]

I find it ironic that Smogon went on a practical crusade against Baton Pass, but any mention of banning Stealth Rock, even for just a single tournament to test it out, gets you laughed off of its forums.

[@oscen335]

Baton pass can go pass up its ass for all I care tbh, hazards are no biggie compared to BP chains

[@Typh3621]

Simple solution is to reduce how available the move is, make it 10% normal damage, 20% if weak regardless of whether its x2 or x4, and 5% to resist. It would still be strong, but far less damning.

[@randomchiz]

I've always wondered how things would have gone if stealth rocks were born with the sole purpose of being a hazard for Flying types immune to spikes and sticky web; dealing double damage to Flying Pokemon, but not taking typing into account beyond that. Imagine a world where mon like Skarmory, Lando-T, and Gliscor, took 1/4th switching in, and mon like Centiskorch and Frosmoth only took 1/8th

[@jessevongnaraj2276]

I remember watching gen 4 competitive a decade ago and when Haydunn would always call this by it’s fun name 😂

[@jdrmanmusiqking]

Smogoners are absolutely insane and often don't understand healthy balance. The fact that HDB was controversial and suspect tested was absurd Stealth rock-less formats should've been tested waaaaay before HDB.

[@oscen335]

I don't know if you like stall or play Gen 5 ou with volc and other stealrock weak mons

[@TaLeng2023]

They can just scale down the damage done so that max a 4x Rock weak Pokemon would get from Stealth Rock would be 25% or 30%. 30% would still be tough but it shouldn't be so damning as losing half your max hp. Maybe they can also make a type quirk to deal with it, like switching in a Rock type would remove it from your field, like how (grounded) Poison types absorb Toxic Spikes.

[@typemasters2871]

The main problem with Stealth Rocks is how much damage they do to rock weak Pokemon Boots is one solution available but other possible solution that could be made would be to reduce how much damage it deals x2 weak and x4 weak Pokemon or have it not be typed based damage and have it deal extra damage to flying or levitating Pokemon But on the other hand, why not add more chaos? Add Grass (Invisible Ivy) and Bug (Hidden Hive) variants for a type triangle with no overlapping super effectivenesses

[@shoogles_]

First we were all against Meganium joining the Horse Council, but now we know of his tragic backstory and altruistic ends? We're all rooting for him. This is top-notch character development. Anyway fuck Stealth Rock

[@coolitten4937]

I remember using a sashed skarmory with stealth rocks, spikes, toxic and defog/protect. That was funny when it worked

[@Syogren]

I think, conceptually at least, rocks are fine. I think I'd give a bit of a nerf to their damage output, such that double rock-weak pokemon only take a third of their max health rather than half, and neutral targets take about two thirds of the damage they would compared to spikes rather than the same. Then rocks become a bit more risky. Do you bet that the switch target will be weak to Stealth Rock, and set that hazard up? Or do you think they'll be neutral or resist, and thus go with Spikes instead? I think that could add some additional dimension to the hazard setting meta. I'd also increase options for hazard removal. Defog's gen 6+ hazard removing effect didn't really have the impact I expected it to have, and with many Pokemon losing it in gen 9, and with the addition of the new Pokemon Gholdengo being able to block both Defog and Rapid Spin, hazards in general are just very difficult to get rid of, maybe even unnecessarily so. I would of course appreciate simply having new options with which to kill Gholdengo, but even without Gholdengo there just isn't enough counter-play nowadays. The new move Tidy-Up, at least, is a step in the right direction, being able to bypass Gholdengo's ability by only affecting its user. If more Pokemon had this move, especially mons that match up well into Gholdengo, that would be helpful. If Stealth Rock dealt more reasonable damage and there were more ways to remove it from the field, it could still be a very good move without it being as oppressive as it currently feels. Then they could follow this up with some kind of nerf for boots if those are still a problem, and the game should feel a bit nicer to play. As is...well, it may be a tad unfair, but such is the nature of the beast.

[@EarselBill-bi4xr]

The max damage from Stealth Rock should’ve been -25% HP no matter what, idk what they were thinking making Pokémon like Charizard half dead just for switching in

[@RealYetiKing]

Every new installment in the Pokémon series significant mechanical change that naturally has a massive impact on competitive play.

[@TrueLooneyman]

I admittedly did have one thought on another way to nerf Stealth Rock, and entry hazards in general. Set them on a timer. So after 5 turns they fade on their own, or after 8 turns with a held item on the setter. To balance out Spikes, one use would count as three uses and one use of Toxic Spikes counts as two.

[@Dragostorm21]

They would kinda suck then tbh. This is a stall buff

[@nefigah]

Hi Jimothy, I just watched one of your videos about the pluses and minuses of Team Preview. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts about the "bring 6, pick 3" type of format such as in "Battle Stadium Singles." Though I think the actual metagame of the current BSS is gross, the most interesting part for me was trying to guess which pokemon they would bring and which they would think I would bring. Then in the match you had the hidden information element; you knew which possibilities they had in the back, but not the exact ones they brought. Interesting.

[@Shattered_Starstorm]

This move really rocked the world of competitive Pokemon.

[@treyvonervin745]

Stealth Rocks being so broken also has a side-effect of nerfing all the other balanced hazards since they force so many boots and removal options. There is a single OU mon that learns sticky webs, but more than half the time it wont even have an impact because it doesnt effect flying targets AND the other half of their team probably has boots.The result is that you wind up playing 5v6 because your relatively weak bug mon who is forced to run sash has the one move you are using it for invalidated.

[@silveratlas2706]

The only other move I can even think of comparing in terms of shaping a metagame to a similar degree would be Dracovish's Fishious Rend for the time it was in gen 8 OU. You either had a water immunity or you would probably lose. Thankfully it didn't last nearly as long as Stealth Rock did.

[@Verminator4]

SR's been around as long as I've been playing competitive mons so like you point out I'm used to it. The outsized impact it's had is undeniable however. I do sometimes wonder if the damage a mon can receive from a single round of rocks should be capped at 25%, or if the distribution of the move should be drastically reduced. Rock and ground types I understand, why the hell do Infernape and Blissey learn it?

[@lillyie]

imagine if we got an ice equivalent to stealth rock. singles wouldn't be the same

[@kaisedvin]

Watching this video makes me wonder how things would look like if there existed entry-hazards of every type? Might make for an interesting video or discussion?

[@KurageHimari]

Yanmega is my favorite pokemon and I wonder how viable it would get in a world without Stealth rock. Not much in modern generations maybe, but it could've probably been way more playable outside of doubles or as a lead...

[@MAYOFORCE]

Yesterday I jokingly thought of the implications of a glock held item, where it's effect is that if a pokemon holding a glock is switched in, the opponent gets hit with a 40 power steel type attack. I feel if that were real it would be just as meta effecting as stealth rock if not worse

[@mlujua4279]

Maybe Pokemon over a certain weight breaking the stealth rocks upon entering the field would be a nice solution

[@axel8912]

The Jimothy stealth rock video vs the FSG heavy duty boots video

[@karatgaming5792]

Stealth rock is one of the most impactful moves in Pokemon, and the fact that we got it from the first gym in Sinnoh was mind blowing!