10 Fighting Game terms you've been using wrong

[@Aardzak]

Luigi is my favorite shoto, his combogame is so meaty

[@LucDaMan4]

Ok but why is Luigi actually a shoto -Fireball -Spinning Attack -Strong uppercut

[@TheRealFaceyNeck]

@@LucDaMan4 Exactly. All of the above.

[@dr3adh3ad_gam3r6]

Lol indeed he is a shoto

[@shaolinotter]

his mustache is fuzzy

[@somekinnn]

@@LucDaMan4 Luigi is just a shoto that decided to borrow Potemkin's homework and have awkward neutral but a grab that murders you in exchange.

[@TrueUnderDawgGaming]

This is why learning fighting games was SO HARD about 10 years ago KZbin basically only had combo videos. Nobody was explaining Anything lmao

[@keithsimpson2150]

You were lucky to get 240p pro footage and some combos from a vhs from the 90's. Not kidding I learned SF2 combos from a vhs in the 90's.

[@ROTTERDXM]

gameFAQS always was a thing

[@G0rgar]

@@ROTTERDXM I mean no, not really. gameFAQs was sometime in the mid-90s. Street Fighter 2 came out in 1991.

[@TheGreatDanish]

@@G0rgar My man, it isn't 2001. 91 wasnt 10 years ago.

[@CS.AtheistChannel.VoteBidenAOC]

Faqs came from online email lists and server lists. I think those started in early 80s. But that's before my time

[@MrCactuar13]

"Meaty is a spectrum" is my favorite quote from this whole video

[@vrgrmnr]

Great. Now i want it on a shirt.

[@shaolinotter]

my doctor said I'm a low functioning meaty

[@KI0NE]

Mine too! I dont know i just love spectrums

[@icicletheweavile3056]

quoted from core-a gaming

[@MrCactuar13]

@@icicletheweavile3056 really? which video

[@ajshiro3957]

The people just say Kazuya's a shoto because he's from a fighting game. His devil lazer is like the worst fireball if they're considering that a fireball. the startup is long. Mario would be more of a shoto than Kazuya.XD

[@HYLOBRO]

Yeah most Smash players are not cultured enough in other FGC games/terminology to know better. To them he's a shoto simply because he is in a fighting game that isn't smash. I started my FGC journey in smash, and if I had still only been playing that game when Kazuya was released I woulda thought he was a shoto, just like I thought Terry was one. Now I actually play Tekken more than any other fighting game so I know better. The difference really is stark, as Shotos are supposed to be honest, straightforward characters that teach you the game. Whereas Mishimas are some of the most complex and mechanically demanding characters in Tekken. Kazuya is arguably one of THE MOST difficult in Tekken.

[@raedien]

Yuuuuuup, Fire Ball, Dragon Punch, Tornado.

[@ajshiro3957]

@@HYLOBRO cool. I started in Tekken then went to Smash. With characters like Ryu, I learned Smash more. Without the "shotos", Smash wouldn't be on my radar. So having Kazuya and Ryu makes me appreciate Smash a lot.

[@HYLOBRO]

@@ajshiro3957 niiice, the only issue I have experienced with Smash, is the skills are a lot less transferable than if you played other 2d fighters. That’s my only gripe. I spent 500+ hours playing smash, got my DK into elite smash and stuff, then I tried other fighting games and realized none of my skills that I developed were helpful. Except for maybe understand neutral, and mind games, like baiting and whatnot. But actual dexterity wise, it’s too different to be helpful when you switch to other fighting games. That’s just my opinion, ever since branching out I’ve had more options so if I get frustrated I can switch games and try to reset my mindset.

[@UsingGorillaLogic]

@@HYLOBRO This is why even when I started with Smash brothers I actually took my time to look at and understand other games so I don't make a fool of myself. Also from that I at least got my main in Tekken because Kuma is funny.

[@Modren]

Time Stamps: 2:23 Priority 4:17 Meaty 8:10 Charge Partitioning 10:02 Instant Overhead 11:15 Trip-Guard 13:09 Shoto 15:32 50/50s and Mixups 18:56 Neutral, Zoning, Spacing, and Footsies 21:57 Pretzel Motion 23:21 Fuzzy

[@jmcrofts]

Thank you, I went ahead and added these to the description

[@CS.AtheistChannel.VoteBidenAOC]

I would disagree on pretzel. Pretzel is any motion that isn't the common motions for specials. Qcf. Hcf. Charges. Dp. Etc.

[@ZinthYneX]

@@CS.AtheistChannel.VoteBidenAOC For the most part, the names of motion inputs are derived from what they look like in command lists, or what the motion itself resembles; for instance, the quarter-circle forward motion, which has you roll your stick from down to forward, resembles a quarter of a circle. The same goes for the half-circle forward, which has you roll your stick from back to forward. Of course, not every motion input is named for its appearance-the DP is named so after the original move that used it: the Shoryuken, which loosely translates to "dragon punch," hence, "DP." The tiger knee, named after Sagat's attack of the very same name, is another good example. All that said, if you look at the appearance of the original pretzel input, you'll see that it _looks_ like a pretzel.

[@LloydTheZephyrian]

About the "shoto" lore bit: that was only in American instruction booklets. That variant of karate is never once mentioned in the Japanese equivalents.

[@j4nky_]

Didnt it get changed to a fake martial art called ansatsuken or something?

[@LloydTheZephyrian]

@@j4nky_ I believe so. I believe it had something akin to "(something) no Hado" in the name.

[@tearitup5864]

@@LloydTheZephyrian the other poster is right, it is called “ansatsuken” now. And no the “Satsui no Hado” is something different, that’s like... for lack of a better phrase, their “dark form”. Like how there’s “evil ryu” who fights like akuma. It’s a fighting style that taps into your inner demon or something like that. Akuma is considered the master of the “satsui no hado”

[@nitramdh]

From South America here, the word went about that Shoto is the same as when Japanese people pronounce the word "Bat" as "Bat-to". So "shoto" means "shoot", which means characters that shoots fireballs. And TBH it made a lot of sense back then but I don't really know if it's true. So in my book, Sagat is a shoto character because is has a lot more in common with Ryu than it has with Vega, Zangief or Mike Bison.

[@KurisuBlaze]

@@nitramdh From what I've heard, the term 'Ryu/Ken Type' saw some use in Japan, as well. Also, those words used for Shoto in that context would be more accurately spelled 'Shotto' for Shot, and 'Shuuto' for Shoot, over there.

[@risemixFGC]

"Fuzzy" for overheads comes from the fact that it can be used to break a fuzzy guard. They were originally called "Fuzzy guard breaks" and were eventually just shortened to fuzzy because of course they were.

[@happycamperds9917]

Before Fuzzies we had straight up unblockables like in Darkstalkers.

[@neontetra1000]

I reckon JM stands for jolly man. How is this guy always so happy!.

[@DonQuixe]

He plays fighting games everyday.. That's why 😂😂

[@illuz1oN44]

Doing what he loves

[@pleaseshutup7053]

@@DonQuixe fighting games are stressful

[@DonQuixe]

@@pleaseshutup7053 yeah they are

[@ROTTERDXM]

@@pleaseshutup7053 that's why good sportsmanship is important

[@danaltamirano2546]

"What´s a 50/50?" It´s every time Yun jumps in SF4. In fact, it was like a 1/4.

[@BlueDragon7100]

Ah yes, the fabled and terrifying 25/25/25/25.

[@sharodtg12]

Fair and balanced and i love it 😩

[@uandresbrito5685]

@@BlueDragon7100 The only thing more terrifyingly legendary than the dreaded 10/0 MU

[@V2ULTRAKill]

@@BlueDragon7100 fear the millia mix The 20/20/20/20/20

[@BlueDragon7100]

@@V2ULTRAKill as a Millia Main, we don't have that much privilege actually. We just get to do like 2 50/50s back to back.

[@chazaqiel2319]

I suggest we collectively start calling the Fuzzy Overhead by a new, more accurate term: the Superposition Overhead (SP Overhead). Or, if you're feeling fancy, Schrodinger's Overhead

[@Protosilver97]

The fuzzy for overheads is fuzzy guard break shortened, apparently.

[@mitchmediak]

If I ever start actually playing fighting games instead of just watching them, this is gonna come in handy

[@GeneralGlockasiah]

Get wreckt! When you start playing fighting games, I'm going to galloping all over you hobo. Get wreckt!

[@ManoloRibera070]

@@GeneralGlockasiah Somehow I feel like you wont do shit. Prolly ragequit after losing 1 match.

[@GeneralGlockasiah]

@@ManoloRibera070 What does Prolly mean? I've never heard of a "prolly ragequit".

[@hrgrhrhhr]

@@GeneralGlockasiah obvious bait

[@206lbs.hercules5]

@@GeneralGlockasiah this is high tier shit posting

[@kevinmalone4341]

Back in the old days of dinosaurs like me, we used "priority" to refer to startup frames. For example, in Samurai Shodown 2, Hanzo and Galford's running SPD has no startup. If you time it right, you can SPD opponents forever once you've knocked them down, because all the wakeup moves have startup. So the running SPD has "priority" over a wakeup attack.

[@zobdos]

what a nightmare, getting command grabed to death with no escape ^^

[@kevinmalone4341]

@@zobdos There's some timing and spacing involved, but it's not too hard to execute with practice. There may be an escape but I never found one.

[@chrismanuel9768]

Yeah, I thought it would be obvious that priority would be which has less startup from neutral? I mean that makes sense to me. If these two moves come out at the same time, which hits first? That one has priority. I guess it makes sense for one move going through another if they collide, but I feel like there's another term for one move countering through another

[@illford]

​@@zobdosas a smash player this is normal to me

[@itsoledan]

I’m so happy you made this 2 years ago!! I am getting into fighting games and y’all throw around terms like crazy!! Thanks dude!

[@ajshiro3957]

No, Bread and Butter is not the ingredients for toast. But your character will be toast against Scorpion if you don't know your basics. XD

[@LordBaktor]

Don't you mean "toasty"?

[@devilmaycrysarockingdontcome]

I have ascended, I finally comprehend the concept of "fuzzy". I am now a superior existance 🛐🛐🛐

[@raqu17]

I guess side note on meaties: The modern version is still often an actual meaty. Most people don't hit with their first active frame when doing oki. Whether its intentional or not is a whole different story. haha.

[@b1akn3ss93]

9/10 it’s probably not

[@alexanderdenison2950]

@@b1akn3ss93 in strive it pretty much has to be as a result of the game having two frame throws. If your timing isn't meaty you'll just get thrown

[@V2ULTRAKill]

@@alexanderdenison2950 or youre millia where timing is meaty just because you need time to transition from disk into the left right 50/50

[@chrismanuel9768]

It was probably just people seeing it, didn't know what it was, heard someone say "meaty", and came to the wrong conclusion

[@marzipancutter8144]

It just happens to matter less on normals in games that have chaining as you'll be canceling the move on hit anyway. It makes sense for the term to keep the most meaning (and stay intentional) in games where you have to worry about properly linking your moves, and lose it outside of those games.

[@jeanschyso]

in smash, Mario is literally more of a Shoto than Kazuya. Think about that for a second.

[@nersh46137]

The next time you do JMPeordy, I would love to see a section on identifying a game or character just based on some move lists. Moves normally have pretty obscure names but the terminology would give hints: For example if a move contained low punch or high punch then it is Mortal Kombat, slash/heavy slash would be Guilty Gear or Samurai Shodown. A famous example of course is “Avoiding the puddle” - up+4…

[@Guizoxy]

I would love to see a video about the terms and slangs used in the fgc, you can even add some trivia like how other scenes name these things. In Brazil the half circle motion is called "Meia-lua" that means "Half-moon", even mashing means Farofar that is a food usually associated with messy things, I bet these things have different meanings in latam or Asia. Great video, man!

[@FrancoMapua]

I really appreciate how you used different games to showcase each item. Major props

[@tonywong8134]

I always thought DHC was dual hyper combo, and I used that in the old vs. games like XSF, MSHSF, and MvC. Then years later I was told it was delayed hyper combo.

[@tonyrivas6429]

Thanks for this vid man, i'm an old head - loving fighting games since the arcades but slowly navigating playing online and seeing all the chatter and terminology. A lot of these terms are new or different for me now. Good stuff!

[@jacowboy]

Also, it should be noted that "projectile spamming" and "zoning" are not the same thing, which is another frequent mistake.

[@urmum9898]

True, but also, Happy Chaos.

[@CloaknDagger]

Even though this isn't one of your highest viewed videos, I found this REALLY valuable, thank you for research and great communication skills!

[@tearitup5864]

Ah yes the fuzzy meta of DBFZ where half of the cast wasn’t even viable because they’d get fuzzy mixed to oblivion. And yet the even scarier part was towards the end of S2, lab monsters discovered that certain characters can fuzzy the whole cast no matter the size (AKA universal fuzzy). The new S3 players don’t even know 😅😞

[@bug-deal]

what changed in S3? some systemwide mechanic or like.. every single character's moves?

[@vangoghsseveredear]

@@bug-deal they removed the ability to fuzzy large characters entirely, system-wide. Before then, you literally could not use a big character once you climbed the ladder a bit. At least, you'd have to be a beast with them and still risk the shmix

[@bug-deal]

@@vangoghsseveredear ah, thanks. so they allow you to physically crouch and move your hurt box during blockstun? or they made it so you count as blocking high when your model is standing, even if you're holding down-back? edit: looked it up, they made it so rising air attacks don't hit overhead. fair enough.

[@RisingJericho]

You missed the most misunderstood term: Option Select. I've seen so many people use it for so many different meanings.

[@NomoregoodnamesD8]

Calling it an option select is an option select

[@Raidanzoup]

I only somewhat picked up on what meaty meant back in the day, intuiting from the name that it was when moves hit really deep, but hearing the full definition made me realize the moves primarily hit deep in the timeline of active frames, not just deep into the (active-to-be) hurtbox. Wait, phrasing the last part like that is making me question how the term was used 10 years ago.

[@justinblonda7210]

I've tried to explain some of these terms to my friends just getting into fighting games and i've shown them the fighting game glossary but honestly i'm going to use this video to explain fuzzies to them for sure. this is a super easy to understand with examples showcase, i really like videos like this.

[@raedien]

See: any Metroid Dread forum literally anywhere. "I'm softlocked!" No, you're just stuck.

[@leukashot123]

sir this is fighting games

[@Saixjacket]

Lol I remember being “soft locked” in super Metroid, then I got gud randomly one day and beat the game in 2 hours no problem.

[@bigredradish]

if a pretzel motion is any move that's hard to do then I can't believe kof hyperhop is a pretzel motion

[@wilsonaguiar4646]

If that's the case then can we call Zangief Super a curley fry?

[@Ihavenolifeorvideos]

@@wilsonaguiar4646 nah, zangief's regular command grab is a doughnut, and his super is a cinnamon roll

[@Arassar]

@@Ihavenolifeorvideos I lol'ed

[@Tr0lliPop]

Smash bros players are pretty much convinced that Shoto just means character that originated from a traditional fighting game. Don't ask me why, I have no clue. According to them, the smash bros versions of terry and kazuya are "shotos".

[@BlueGatorade0]

I was always a little confused by identifying what's meaty but u explaining it as a spectrum completely made the whole concept click with me

[@VVheeli]

The way I learned what Fuzzy Guarding was is from Killer Instinct's tutorial trials. Where they defined it as guarding with a certain timing to OS overhead/low mix ups that have different start ups. That's also how I started hearing about "unfuzziable" mix ups that have the same frames/1-2 frame difference which is near impossible to fuzzy guard. And the fuzzy overhead definition, it reminds me a lot of jailing from Tekken and MK9. MK9 especially jailing was important for certain characters to keep pressure with true block strings that would've been duckable. But with a jump-in the opponent's forced to block, you get a guaranteed jailed block string. The best example of this I know is Kabal's theoretical infinite where he can keep cancelling Nomad Dash off a high normal that's +1, and with the jailing technique it's theoretically possible to chain 50 of these and kill someone through block.

[@blockhead134]

Completely off topic, but that Urien hopping forward to push the grounded guy into his wall is FILTHY and I love it

[@Viviantoga]

14:43 AFAIK Smash players use "Shoto" to describe characters who auto-switch to face opponents during 1v1, and was introduced when Ryu was added in Smash 4. It seems that they sloppily imported the descriptor from the SF fgc, misconstrued it when Ken came to Smash Ultimate, then reinforced the off-meaning when Terry and Kazuya were added. I think it's only a coincidence that all four fighting game characters happen to be their respective protagonists. Smash lingo has always developed separately from the rest of the FGC, so it should be safe to accept that they have their own usage for the same word with little repercussions.

[@randaljr.8581]

consistently one of the best fgc youtube channels ive found

[@KingK3ksLP]

The fact that so many different fighting games were shown for the examples is beautiful

[@Arassar]

16:32 I can't tell you how long it took me to understand what "option select" means. I just press buttons, man.

[@xXAgeXx]

I loved this video, I hope to see more on the terminology. I learned something new and I've been in the FGC since vanilla SF4

[@SpaceMissile]

I saw the length and was worried this would be nitpicky, but it was chock full of great information. Stellar vid

[@jnews547]

Old man yells at clouds.jpg

[@muddlewait8844]

My pet peeve is commentators using “point”, “round”, “game”, “set”, and “match” interchangeably

[@HasekuraIsuna]

"Set" being used by the Koreans to mean "game" really bother me...

[@erugoodwin3443]

One thing that really irritates me is when people say "delayed meaty" - that's an oxymoron!

[@muddlewait8844]

Though I like it as a joke term for a whiff

[@pip25hu]

Never heard of these "new" meanings for meaties and trip guards before. Weird.

[@jeradwest8450]

Jmcrofts... I need you to commentat every EVO; you are true fighting-game loremaster and your experience and knowledge is the truth whether your actively playing or not and master to any of the commentators I do suffer to hear when they stream tournaments. Seriously... just need Jmcroft, ifcyipes, spooky, nerdjosh, the dude with shades from MK11 tournaments, and tastysteve to commentat all fighting game tournaments or at least the majors.

[@jimmyboyj2]

Such an informative, eloquently explained video. My preemptive assumptions for a lot of these terms turned out to be pretty much accidentally right lol. The video wasn't so dramatic or anything, but I'm struck by just how rare I come across something so well put together and succinct in how clearly you discuss these terms. Already was a fan, but even more so now

[@shadou1234567]

the funnyest thing i ever hear sometimes is "this is a 3 way 50/50" and i intantly think of how the hell something has 3 halfs

[@uandresbrito5685]

At first it sounds weird like "shouldn't it be a 33/33/33?", but it usually refers to a triple unavoidable mixup such as I-no's projectile>flight>j.K on oki as in "you have to guess three times". But if you're annoying you could say that's still mathematically a 12.5/12.5/12.5/12.5/12.5/12.5/12.5/12.5, lol

[@zatransis]

Regarding Charge Partitioning: What is happening in SFIV when Guile does Flash Kick > Double Flash? Is that a different mechanic? The Flash Kick pops and almost instantly goes to Double Flash off the same charge (essentially). It's not really long enough for charge buffering.

[@tracyanonas4497]

same with what happens when you do hadoken to shinku. the qcf from the hadoken acts as the first qcf (out of 2) of the shinku.

[@zatransis]

@@tracyanonas4497 I can’t tell if I’m just having a brain fart, but what would we call that? Or does it just fall under SFIV’s input leniency?

[@tracyanonas4497]

@@zatransis it's called input buffering. I remember doing flash kick to ultra in SFIV like this, after I do flash kick (hold 1, 9+mk) i immediately go 319mk for the ultra.

[@zatransis]

@@tracyanonas4497 Awesome. Thank you! The term escaped me.

[@MayhemEverFree]

People in 2030: "Amazing Fuzzy Footsie display right there!! I think his opponent was looking for a meaty grab but got punished with a fuzzy zoning setup!!! OOOH! He went for a dash forward instant fuzzy overhead, that's a pretzel motion right there!!"

[@84TZ]

Dial storage in smash is like... A subset of charge partitioning.

[@zu_1455]

Very informative Edit: Old fart, been playing SFII since the beginning and enjoy many other games but will never be close to competitive. In any case it's helpful to know stuff like this because I still enjoy watching channels like yours.

[@absoul112]

To be honest I've heard both versions of meaty often and they both work fine. Funny thing is that I thought trip guard was the opposite of the definition. In other words, I thought trip guard referred to when games didn't let you block while landing after an empty jump. Don't know how that happened.

[@SuperReview]

Plinking (P-linking): I think it originated in SF4 and had to do with taking advantage of button priorities and multiple consecutive inputs for 1-frame combo timing, but ended up being used to describe a kind of dashing in Marvel 3 that used a similar piano input but relied on different underlying mechanics. Target combos: Sometimes used to describe any type of chain combo (e.g. "gatling" in Guilty Gear, "magic series" in Marvel), but the term originally described a type of pre-defined chain combo in games like Street Fighter Alpha, where the chain combo is a pre-defined order and operates more like a unique attack than an underlying combo system like "magic series." Some terms not necessarily "wrong" but it's funny how they carry between games, like DP = Dragon Punch, but ends up referring to any invincible anti-air even in games that don't have a move called "Dragon Punch," or DHC = Delayed Hyper Combo, a clunky term from Marvel vs. Capcom 2 that Capcom doesn't even use in Marvel 3, but the DHC term lives on even in games like Dragon Ball FighterZ.

[@ROTTERDXM]

Having been around for... a while... (played original SF2 release on SNES as a kid, feeling old now), I appreciate this video a lot. Learned many new things and also enjoyed seeing how the use of terms and their meaning has shifted.

[@WafflesOWNz]

I like the specific way Gerald from Core A Gaming called the "fuzzy" instant overhead. He specified it as a "fuzzy guard break". The guard break part makes it more clear which fuzzy he's talking about. Edit: Gerald didn't come up with that phrase, but he did specify it in one of his popular videos.

[@Bluepengie]

To be fair to the Smash community, which I don't usually like to do, Ryu and Ken were the only "traditional fighting game" characters in the roster when Ultimate released, and since they're so similar people would refer to them both as "the shotos." Then when Terry got released, I think the majority of people just thought "Oh, he's from a normal fighting game like the shotos so let's call him one" and that trend just followed through. Granted, one could argue Terry is a shoto (I guess) but the Smash community definitely did not know that when grouping him in with Ryu and Ken.

[@JoNNyCLOUD171]

I think Shoto is probably the most vague and undefined term from the fgc. I believe "generally speaking" they are characters that have motion inputs and have some similarities to Ken or Ryu. They are both different characters and have had different play styles or goals in SF 3 onwards anyway. They just happened to have the same lore martial arts. I think the similarities could also include similar moves. Kazuya being the worst example because none of his moves are similar to a "Shoto" or have the same input. So most would consider Sakura a Shoto style character that is rush down. Goku is a Shoto in DBFZ except he had no "DP". Although by that logic a large chunk of characters are Shotos in DBFZ. Tldr, Shoto's are less defined none charge characters however it's probably possible a charge character can be considered in some way a Shoto with enough similarities. The FGC has some of the weirdest lingo to begin with so it's best to not argue it.

[@ShujinkoZ]

See, I learned fuzzy guard when KOF13 was big and I thought that meant switching between crouching and standing block rapidly to stay in a blocking state to avoid getting thrown. It's very cool to see the history of this term and maddening that it can mean so many things.

[@mariop8852]

Everything is a mix-up until even the attacker has no idea what side they're hitting on. In theory you could have better than 50% block/evade rates if enemy's habits are figured out.

[@CrimsoniteSP]

Yeah, "Shoto" basically just describes move patterns nowadays, or to "insult" the FGC from the Smash community. With the whole Kazuya thing. But there's a SHOCKING amount of characters who use a fireball, tatsu type whirlwind kick, and an invincible uppercut. For example, Mario in Smash. Fireball projectile, invincible UpB uppercut, a kick that hits both sides on Down Smash.

[@uandresbrito5685]

Tatsu type move is not a spinning move, but a move that is usually low invincible, anti-projectile and, most importantly, moves forward. Mario's Down Special is closer.

[@cerdi_99]

@@uandresbrito5685 mario's down special is FLOOD XD

[@uandresbrito5685]

@@cerdi_99 True, I meant the old one

[@iliakatster]

I think pretzel motion is a specific move that has a unique aspect (being weirdly complicated) so people began applying that term to other moves with a similar aspect, just like with tiger knee, DP/ DP motion, flash kick, rekka, etc. You're not making a pretzel motion with Terry's power geyser, but it can make your hands feel like they're being tied into pretzels if you're not used to the motion.

[@uandresbrito5685]

It would make the term stupid to the point where you could say a DP is a pretzel motion. Pretzel motion should remain exclusive to that motion, which is Geese, K9999 and Nameless exclusive afaik

[@sockbot_]

Lots of people misuse the term reversal to refer to only an invincible reversal. Lots of reversals are not invincible. Even a normal can be a reversal if it has reversal timing.

[@uandresbrito5685]

Thing is Reversal is usually a mechanic in the game, so only moves that trigger it are considered Reversals

[@sockbot_]

@@uandresbrito5685 You're using it wrong. A reversal isn't a mechanic and moves don't trigger reversals. If you're implying that only moves that cause the word "reversal" to show on the screen are reversals this is demonstrably false, as this would mean that it is not possible to perform a reversal in HF. This is false, because it is possible to perform moves with reversal timing in HF. Reversal doesn't describe a property of a move. Reversal describes the timing of the execution of a move. The move can be a normal or a special. The move can be invincible on startup or not. Doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is whether the move was executed with reversal timing, which means it was executed on the first frame possible after coming out of any state where the player doesn't have control over the character, such as coming out of block stun or coming out of wakeup.

[@uandresbrito5685]

@@sockbot_ I'm aware a reversal is not ONLY a mechanic, but in games where it is it doesn't make sense to name moves that don't trigger it as reversals because reversals by the system are usually given special properties from their normal uses. So when it's not a system thing it makes sense to just use it as is, but when it is you can't say your frame 1 sweep is a reversal if the game doesn't count it as one.

[@sockbot_]

​@@uandresbrito5685 You're making the logical fallacy of affirming the consequent. You're saying that a move is a reversal because the system says "reversal" when you perform it and because it has special properties when it is performed. It's actually the other way around-- if you perform certain reversals, then the system says reversal and the move has special properties. But if the system doesn't say reversal and the move doesn't have special properties, it doesn't mean the move was performed with reversal timing. My definition applies to all fighting games, including those fighting games that pre-date the display of "reversal" and special properties of performing reversal timing. Your definition means one thing in some games and another thing in other games.

[@uandresbrito5685]

@@sockbot_ Well, yes, it's literally that. If a Reversal mechanic exists and it only applies to certain moves, then not all moves are reversals, while if such mechanic doesn't exist, you can make any move a reversal as long as it's frame 1 out of an uncontrollable state, as yourself stated, a reversal wouldn't have a strict definition, it would be merely timing, a technique. My definition having different meanings based on game doesn't mean it has any less value, that's your fallacy, actually. If games decided to define Reversal as a special mechanic for certain moves, it's not my fault.

[@hteety]

The thing about fuzzy is that it's definition is that the colloquial definition is very similar to to its fg definition, but for obvious reasons colloquial english definitions are stronger than fg definitions. Since fuzzy in English just means something that is ambiguous, or is very intuitive to weekend fuzzy to different fg techniques to signify doing that technique to do something ambiguous, or to deal with something ambiguous.

[@EpsilonKnight2]

The fuzzy option select you showed with the jump could also be construed as a "chicken block" because of the jump back and presence of air blocking in GG.

[@romajimamulo]

8:06 yeah I only knew of the old version and... I started paying attention to fighting games maybe a year ago

[@sgtpepper91]

When I was a beginner I heard the definition that neutral in street fighter is before anyone has meter built up but someone quickly corrected it

[@muty1723]

Dude, I'd say that Smash and your videos are the main reason I've gotten into more fighting games. Keep up the good work since I can now understand the commentary in the matches.

[@mackinzie]

A funny anecdote, in 3rd strike, all characters when getting up from being knocked down are standing for a very small window, except Chunli... and that's kind of how I learned the term force stand was by hitting with a meaty fierce with Makoto and doing way too much damage off of it. Lol

[@wutthabuck8772]

Never heard the word 'meaty' so many times in my life 😂

[@wfjhDUI]

2:55 What is the green box?

[@andrewmirror4611]

There is an another another use of fuzzy. It's for when you quickly switch between two or maybe more defensive options to have a chance of defending against anything opponent might throw at you. Different from option selecting with fuzzy, like if your pponent hasn't hit you yet and they might hit with anything you can mash back into downback so you don't just choose for example defending against lows by crouching, you can still potentially block any overhead that may be coming. Not an option select, still a 50/50, but at least you don't commit to just defending against lows. It's a very common use of fuzzies, I was surprised it wasn't mentioned in the video

[@ModelK-8904]

Fighting games are like math, tough, but satisfying when it clicks

[@TheWhoshoyu]

Good stuff! I’ve been watching fighting game tourneys for years and didn’t understand some of the commentary. Thanks for this

[@funkwater8759]

Finally I can send this video to my smash playing friends whenever they say that kazuya (or terry, because believe it or not they call terry a shoto also) is a shoto. Thx for the vid JM!

[@tomaszkubala6266]

Finally! FINALLY! I think I now understand what charge partioning actually is.

[@Kishoto]

JM: Kazuya is not a shoto The entire Smash Ultimate community: We'll see about that

[@kamen226]

That last one happens in the Smash community. Every time a smash player says "frame trap", 9/10 times they're just referring to an air-dodge OS

[@SkyBungis]

I think the discrepancy between the two meaty terms is actually really obvious. If a move is hitting on a late active frame, it is hitting meaty (adjective). But if you are choosing to use a normal to pressure your opponent on their wakeup, even if it's on the first active frame, you are doing a meaty (noun).

[@ngubod16]

I think the point is more about how the original meaning of meaty went from hitting an opponent with the later active frames of a move to simply pressuring them on wake up. Like a lot of words on this list, the alternative definitions are generally just accepted now because everyone uses them. Even old school commentators like James Chen now use meaty when referring to button pressure on the opponents wake up.

[@DecemberGift]

my main game is melee, and people all the time say "option select" instead of "option coverage" there are numerous OS's in melee (pikachu up b to ledge ---> buffer a second up b motion. if you grab ledge, nothing happens, but if someone tries to hog you, you will zip to stage) but they are often niche and hard to find uses for. people will call falcon b-air on tech in place, and then covering rolls and say OS. thats my pet peeve

[@illford]

In fairness people also dont use FGC terms in smash. Which makes sense they are very different in technicals imo

[@arrownoir]

I like perfect parrying your fuzzy tripguard into a charged meaty chicken block partition

[@josegonzales2515]

love this one ! I watch a lot of your videos and tournament videos half of the lingo I honestly don't understand. This is very informative! Thanks bud! Keep up the good work! One day I will stay up and watch your live stream! (I'm based in Europe) BTW I don't understand why some people give your vids a thumbs down. You're like the most easy watching and likeable person out there

[@hteety]

The key to understanding the definition of shoto is that shotocon, even as a fictional martial art, theoretically teaches a style of fighting. Just like how every/many(?) martial art uses jabs and straights as part of their arsenal, but they use them to control fights in different ways, just having fireball, dp, etc doesn't make you a shoto.

[@Cambiony]

My personal preference is to use OS for things that work on same frame, like delay tech, fuzzy for when you switch between two options with specific timing to cover multiple options and f-shiki for the overhead technique.

[@SalApYaInDaFace]

Jumping overhead attacks (50/50) used to be referred to as "cross-over" attacks, when you try to end up behind the enemy while still attacking (Example: crossover kick, crossover punch).

[@itraynell]

They still are. It even says crossover or crossup when you land one in SFV. The 50/50 comes from the fact that the attack could either land same side or crossup.

[@uandresbrito5685]

That's a term, crossup. It's any left/right mixup, I think

[@kojisyntax]

fuzzy is just the Heisenberg uncertainty complex of fighting games

[@CVM5LVT]

man really pulled a "this is (not) a fuzzy" in the thumbnail

[@TheHeartlessAlchemist]

So a fuzzy is basically the Shrodinger's cat of fighting games.

[@jordancollier6716]

This was an awesome video, nearly every term I had heard but didn’t have firm grasp on them. Thank you!! In theory could you infinitely meaty someone as they wakeup and keep knocking them down?

[@jmcrofts]

You can try to keep meaty-ing them but they can just block

[@AstroBilly777]

It would be interesting to see a video about terms that aren't actually misunderstood or misused, but are loanwords that have slightly different meanings/methodology on a game-by-game basis. For instance, Wavedashing is a term that is used in MvC2, Tekken, and Melee, and all three of these games have similar applications for the move but vary in mechanics.

[@MADMACHlNE]

I have to disagree about "priority". Priority is an abstraction of all the properties that govern whether a given move will beat out other moves made at the same or approximately the same time, including invincibility, startup, hitboxes, _and, in some games,_ the hard-coded this-beats-that relationships you described in the video. People used the term a lot back in the arcade days when information about the under-the-hood game mechanics was harder to come by, but even today it can be a useful concept.

[@PetterNe]

Brilliant video! I didn't have a single one wrong up until when you mentioned "fuzzy". I scratched my head until the definition I had always known came, namely the last one, demonstrated with SFIV. (Incidentally, this makes me think of Adon and his sweet fuzzy normals.) So yeah, it turns out I had them all right! Even though I somewhat expected it, it did make me a bit proud.

[@ActivelyVacant]

King's Jaguar Step Magma Driver is a massive bundle of Mix Ups, 50/50s, and a few 33/33/33s.

[@Starrz88]

Never heard of the early usages of fuzzy. During Marvel 3 people were doing fuzzy overheads and that's the context I learned it

[@biscuitguy4083]

Crofts upload?? Pog

[@soraofdarkness1225]

Jmcrofts: He can zone with fire balls or just with "regular" limbs Dhalsim: *Proceeds to stretch his limbs 10 feet*

[@DFloyd84]

How many downward dogs do I have to do before I can stretch my limbs like Dhalsim?

[@Gabrol]

5:43 deejay doesn't actually recovers faster, right? it's actually cammy that gets hitstun into later recovery frames, I think?

[@macalloway1]

Slang by its nature has kind of a floating manner of use. Most slang comes from the misuse of another word to mean something else and the meaning continues to change base on who uses the word.

[@alstermaniac]

Loved the concept of this video, same applies to card game terminology as well, people don't use terms correctly

[@LOL-gn5oh]

Example of misused term: Smash kids calling any character with quarter circle input as "shoto"

[@originalzero4422]

Kazuya doesn't even have a qcf input and these mfs still call him a "shoto"

[@VVheeli]

Another misused term: Smash players calling anyone from a fighting game a "2D fighter" when Kazuya's literally not from a 2D fighter.

[@CRIMESAGATV]

I thought a Meaty was a Heavy attack that lands deep in the hurtbox🤷 Keep schooling us bro💪

[@Jackrost01]

There is exist term named "deep hit". It refer to moment when you land air attack really close to floor so you give more frame advantage and can combo from it