WTF Happened to Joss Whedon?

[@littlebitaver]

On a Buffy fan group, somebody once commented "the most ironic thing is, the works of Joss Whedon moulded me into the kind of person who would never stand for the behaviours of someone like Joss Whedon." I felt that.

[@roll14tideroll]

Was all he did was be mean?

[@kittymaya4615]

He built up so many strong female characters just so he could tear down the actresses who played them when no one was lookoing

[@thexdatabase]

there an old saying in eastern europe which i have adapted a bit :"do what the priest/commissar/politician/femminist say not what they do "

[@jamiecloughgaming25387]

Despite what came out about him, he created one of the best female characters ever Buffy herself I will always believe that.

[@bradley163]

Serenity was a damn good film. Even if you're weren't already steeped in Firefly lore, the movie's story is self-contained, and caters to both superfans and newcomers alike. It's still worth watching to this day, nearly 18 years later.

[@TheAntsh]

Это курам на смех

[@Marianojoey]

As a self contained story, Serenity is ok, but it steps so much in what's seen in Firefly, that it was a major let down for me. :/

[@wescarpenter8364]

Agreed

[@TheGavric]

"Serenity" was the worst ret-con of all time. Whedon's hallmark is ret-conning his own work. "Serenity" is absolute trash and should be expunged from human history.

[@zacharycollins9485]

​@@TheAntsh That translation is F'ing hilarious!

[@pauldourlet]

Whedon once remarked that High School was hell for him. He was bullied constantly. One of the worst things that can happen to a person is to become the thing that they hated.Whedon hated bullies, but when he got power --he became one.

[@MargevonMarge]

Exactly and that's the real tragedy. Discovering how cruel he was to Charisma Carpenter cemented his status for me as someone who didn't really hold the values his characters did which was really a very sad discovery but somehow at the same time unsurprising in Hollywood.

[@ethroptur5266]

It's quite possible his story is fabricated or a typical case of DARVO.

[@craigh5236]

Back in the early 2000s I was over helping a co-worker fix his computer at his house and he called me a nerd jokingly. His teenage daughter who was in the room said 'Don't you know, nerds are sexy now'. Keep in mind at that time i was in my mid thirties. I just wanted to sink into the floor and die.

[@007Julie]

Well, smart nerdy guys are sexy but for a teenage girl to say that it was weird, (especially to an older guy) I’m glad you felt uncomfortable because only nice guy would feel like that, weirdos would laugh and find a way to get her phone number.

[@Durwood71]

18 and 19 year olds are technically teenagers, so...

[@jeremyphillips7827]

I would give her the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes teenagers speak before they think and it doesn't come out the way they meant it. She may have been mortified if she realized she made you feel that way. Then again, I wasn't there.

[@ItsaKindOfMagic86]

I'm in my 30s now and was bullied for being a geek when i was a kid, where I lived no one cared for geekdom not until in the 2000s when the internet made it go mainstream... i prefer it when it wasnt mainstream due to the fact it has caused everything to be generic, i miss when thigns were niche

[@shazanali692]

Spiderman made the nerd sexy

[@jasongallagher5464]

The amount of forgiveness Woody Allen has gotten over the years just befuddles my brain

[@corvus1970]

This. 100% this.

[@sabishiihito]

What does Woody Allen have to do with Joss Whedon?

[@jasongallagher5464]

@@sabishiihito Well they are both big Hollywood players who have committed wrongdoings as far as I’m concerned. I was just merely stating that the amount of forgiveness Woody Allen has received boggles my mind. Capeche?

[@alastairwallace6153]

Not a geek, he is a sex pest.

[@kingkiller5325]

​@@jasongallagher5464 The last prominent movie Woody Allen made was A Rainy Day In New York, in 2019. Around the same time Joss Whedon got canceled. Both guys were subject to the Me Too movement and suffered.

[@wstine79]

He was seen as a champion of nerds and strong women. Now, he's known for harassing both.

[@realityshifter3399]

@wstine79 How has he harassed nerds and women? Whedon was used a fall guy for the disastrous production of JL and his detractors dug up all these allegations to try to get him cancelled for taking over Zack Snyder's film, but Whedon is one doing the harassing?

[@danielebowman]

@@realityshifter3399 Eh? read up on his treatment of Charisma Carpenter. In fact there are multiple reports of him bullying and attacking pregnant women he worked with. He used feminist credentials to cheat on his wife and his ; behaviour was so bad some of the actresses on Buffy made a rule to not be alone in a room with him.

[@realityshifter3399]

@@danielebowman *sigh* You're not that bright are you? Other than Charisma Carpenter there are NO other reports of him harassing pregnant women. As for Charisma, her story doesn't add up. She said her and Joss reconciled during a convention but now she is bringing this all up over 20 years later when the opportunity came. Well, if her and Joss forgave each other, why is she bringing this up now? And if Joss really fired her because she was pregnant then why did they change the entire story of fourth season of Angel in order to accommodate her pregnancy? It just doesn't make sense. Also, what does Joss cheating on his wife have to do with being a feminist? Especially when there are feminists who believe the entire concept of monogamy is regressive. As for the rule that Joss couldn't be alone with actresses, when upper manager was asked about it they said they knew nothing about alleged "rule" neither did the other cast members, so no I don't believe that rule existed is if this is the first, they heard about it. I'm sorry, taking hearsay as fact is beyond dumb at this point.

[@Madbandit77]

I never thought he was a "champion of nerds".

[@lawsonrg01]

Also, as she was 14, that should have been a standard rule for ALL adult men. If he actually did something to her she should have said what it was, instead of give an ominous sounding rule as "proof".

[@NathanDrakeTheGreat]

In 2012 this dude was on top of the world... Directing The Avengers and being worshipped by fans of Firefly/Buffy the world over.... I don't think I've seen a fall from grace happen so fast to a successful filmmaker.

[@Bingo_the_Pug]

Bryan Singer.

[@jamalbryant8099]

I thought agent of shield and the never was good

[@dagger1580]

Always thought the dude was overrated

[@applejuicejunkie316]

@@dagger1580 Overrated doesn't even begin to describe him. The Avengers wasn't his baby. That was several projects coming together under the direction of Fiege and several others. I never liked Buffy so I can't say one way or the other about that. Dude just looks like someone who is full of himself.

[@heatherdale5571]

I saw Serenity in the theater. I loved it. It was a tragic and fun ending to a brilliant and gone to soon show.

[@midago7332]

Saw an episode of firefly while quite drunk at a mates party and was fixed on it, went home and watched the whole first season a week later. What an absolute gem of a show. It totally deserved more and Serenity was a great movie too. Would love to see (however unlikely) a limited series for sure. Not a remake please 🙏

[@mattyt1961]

sadly the remake is more likely, I remember reading somewhere that Disney/Fox were looking into it.

[@videoaddicto]

Big agree. I'd be so down to see a time jump story line (3rd season of twin peaks style) by bringing back all the older actors... Or even a spiderman mega verse style animated thing with all the original actors voicing stuff!!! Omg

[@MikeOrtego]

I've been collecting comics since the 80s. Superheroes were always cool. It's just the rest of the world finally caught up

[@randomkeir]

Joss Whedon didn’t come from out of nowhere. His dad is Tom Whedon, who was well established in the entertainment industry.

[@ARBLACKx]

All he had to do was just be a nice person, then he would still have his career

[@craigh5236]

Too many people get high on their own supply.

[@motomike71]

James Cameron also has a reputation for not being a nice guy and still has a career.

[@sabalomglitz6478]

A nice person in Hollywood, where you sell your soul for riches and fame?

[@sabalomglitz6478]

​@@craigh5236that's Hollywood, baby

[@markgundle4150]

@@motomike71 Jim's reputation isn't for creepiness or personal abuse so much as it is for intensity; the man's committed to getting the shot and fully expects the actors to match that commitment. Which isn't to say it's the greatest mindset in the world, but it's not like he's actively out to hurt people who cross him.

[@Monius13]

Joss is not a great person. But he clearly has great talent and an incredible imagination. I'm so sad he turned out this way. Take all of my favorite films and series and his name is attached to the majority of them. FeelsBadMan

[@ForrestFox626]

I hated his approach to romance, but I still love his projects

[@mr.x2567]

Never meet your heroes. They’re still humans, and humans are a garbage species.

[@janelleg597]

There is always the dilemma of art vs artist

[@jackdubz4247]

Being Joss Whedon is what happened to Joss Whedon. He has no one to blame for his downfall other than himself.

[@markprior2278]

I've loved most of what Joss Whedon has done, it's a shame that he turned out to be such a bully.

[@SkarrGaming]

@Dark Corners UK it's absolute power corrupts absolutely, but whatever

[@corvus1970]

@Dark Corners UK Power doesn't corrupt so much as it reveals. It reveals what a person would have always done with power once it has been achieved.

[@stevemyopinion423]

It hard to know how much is joss is a bully and how much is people are cry babies

[@3cho_dimension285]

Yep that's it his ex wife and multiple woman are just cry babies, same with all the women who had encounters with James Franco, or Harvey Weinstein..... Rudy Giuliani is totally innocent with his allegations with his against his former off the books assistant.... You are totally right bro

[@3cho_dimension285]

And yes I know his allogations are substantially less

[@Hogtownboy1]

not a ghost writer but a script doctor

[@kuuttinen]

I wss about to say the same thing.

[@HatemSamhan]

Honestly, y'all should read that New Yorker article. Like the video says, its unhinged. paraphrasing: "I had no choice but to cheat on my wife, i grew up a nerd and now i had all these young actresses around me!"

[@aliyenyoka9487]

Yeah I read it and don’t know he went with that interview or didn’t get a pr adviser. That shit was ridiculous

[@YourBoyWang]

That’s a garbage excuse

[@aliyenyoka9487]

@@YourBoyWang it’s get so much worse reading it

[@frankyace4371]

Based. He did the right thing on sleeping with such beautiful actresses. F**k the hypocrites who says they would not. Almost all directors sleep with actresses,why making it a problem only for Joss Whedon?

[@aliyenyoka9487]

@@frankyace4371 I think the fact of him being a self proclaimed “male feminist” is the reason why

[@nutodimos_d]

"Everything special about you came from a bottle" is still the greatest diss ever on cinema

[@daniescott3000]

If Kevin Feige wants to save the MCU he should quietly bring back Joss Whedon to whip everyone back into shape and make things more engaging again.

[@jamalbryant8099]

Definitely, or the Russo bros or Stephen mcfeely and Christopher Markus

[@youredelicious9945]

Good joke

[@jamalbryant8099]

@@youredelicious9945 you rather have those woke activists that knows nothing about superheros never read any comic books in their lives to write the story or you want someone do the opposite of that, I vote for the opposite

[@HannibalKing-e7e]

​@@youredelicious9945Your opinion is the joke. They're definitely right.

[@Trekkie46]

I remember hearing that Joss Whedon was going to make The Avengers. That's when I knew that movie would be good. I idolized the hell outta the guy and he's one of the reasons I'm trying to be a writer. So I really hope he manages to reclaim himself somehow. However Age Of Ultron deserved more mention because that film had been claimed to have broke him for a while with all the crap he had to juggle at once.

[@DaveVoyles]

11:50 I don't know why anyone calls "Cabin in the Woods" a horror film. This was a straight up comedy

[@rory_pond1701]

Might have something to do with the high body count and all the monsters killing everything in sight. Just a theory.

[@Buffy8Fan]

Horror comedy is just another type of horror. Much in the same vein as the _Scream_ franchise.

[@jamalbryant8099]

That weed head Marty was pure comedy

[@Wash7even]

Such a drastic shift. He was a pillar in the entertainment world and had his own universe, "The Whedonverse", at one point.

[@Troy-McClure81]

He's like that friend you work with who gets the Manager position,and then isn't your friend anymore.😂

[@purefoldnz3070]

Ironically every single Marvel film is now a Joss Whedon lite copy of a copy only without any of the wit or charm. This is why we got MODOK complaining that he is not a dick.

[@raymondhemphill146]

I LOVED the television show Firefly and movie Serenity. I really miss that show.

[@thespiralgoeson]

" Is it possible that with time, and a massive dose of humility and hubris, we could see Joss Whedon return to the world of crafting characters that form massive followings? " LOL, yes, another massive dose of hubris is what Joss Whedon needs to earn forgiveness. If there's one thing Whedon doesn't have enough of is hubris...

[@Omar-wq9dz]

I will admit to first being aware of him from Avengers. I knew about shows like Buffy and Angel before then, but didn’t know he created them

[@lizd.8655]

Its very disheartening when someone who called himself an ally turned out to be such a jerk! It's even more difficult for me bc I love Buffy and MAAN is my favorite Shakespeare play. There aren't enough adaptations of it and I was glad to see a well done modern one. I do hope he takes responsibility for his actions and goes on to repent for them. I'm tired of apologies that include "I'm sorry you felt that way" and "as a father of daughters" since these types of apologies don't take actions into account and instead provide excuses for past behavior.

[@sabalomglitz6478]

Ally of 2023's favorite narcisstic bullies? The people who will destroy without a thought...

[@realityshifter3399]

@Young Gen X Assuming that his guilty of said actions, as far as I can tell he has taken responsibility for his infidelity but other than that he shouldn't take responsibility for anything else if he did nothing wrong. I'm tired of this phony "taking accountability" bullsh*t when in reality there is no action that Whedon would take to "repent" that his cancel mob would accept. If you don't what anything to do with Whedon anymore that's fine but demanding repentance is just disingenuous.

[@mathieuduval7544]

Die a hero or live long enough to become a villain!.... really hope he comes back a better person and start making some amazing movies/ TV shows cause he was very talented!!

[@deborahblackvideoediting8697]

Me too. I love so much of what he's created. I hope he gets the counselling he needs and can eventually restart his career.

[@marsay82]

I loved the concept and casting of Doll House! I really wish it had gotten one more season, tho, to wrap things up.

[@adammclaughlin457]

I had been wondering about this for a while. Thank you for doing a video about it my friend.

[@markstirton]

Yeah, hubris means excessively arrogant and self-important. The word I think your writers were aiming for, is humility. He certainly won't, won't need more hubris for forgiveness.

[@normanby100]

Joss's attitude to Charisma Carpenter could be the nerd's ultimate revenge against the prom queen from High School.

[@applejuicejunkie316]

Or the nerd could've just gotten over it. I'm not usually a woman sympathizer, but if you were a nerd in high school, NO ONE was running to be with you. I would know. Still, I'm not going to treat other women like dirt because some lady wouldn't date me back in my high school days.

[@purgatoriprytania5382]

Just goes to show that there’s more to being a well-rounded person than being a ‘nerd.'

[@Serai3]

Hubris? No, hubris is what Joss HAS had. It's what he needs to get rid of. Dude, seriously - use your dictionary.

[@VideoGamesAndTheWorld]

Joss Whedon brought us a lot of awesome stuff like Buffy, Firefly, Dollhouse, The Avengers, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D, Age of Ultron, Astonishing X-Men, etc. But his bullying is unacceptable, and in the end we must learn to separate the art from the artist. I will always love Buffy, Avengers, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D, and Age of Ultron, but Joss's actions are unacceptable.

[@RodgerRamjet]

had he had the actual support from the network,, and they let him alone, Firefly would have lasted 4 or 5 yrs.. at least... i love Serenity. still watch, re watch it, over and over.. holds up very very well today.. recommend it for anyone... its a standalone if you never saw any of the series.. its just that good

[@ThePrinceofHisOwnKingdom]

He short fused. His ego had him imploded.

[@scotmooney6543]

Zach Snyder's daughter died while he was filming Justice League and left the production before it was finished. Rather than wait for Zach to finish grieving, Warner Bros took advantage and brought in Joss to re-write/complete the film. Afterward, there was some backlash against Mr. Whedon and a few other DC people which opened the door for others in the industry to chime in. In sort turn, Joss was cancelled. Its still surreal to me how quickly the heel turn happened: from ostracized nerd to adored darling to ostracized bastard. The lesson is: dont become famous. The machine will feed you and nurture your worst traits until it finally destroys you.

[@realityshifter3399]

Exactly, Whedon was used as the fall guy for the Warner Bros. deplorable choices.

[@Madbandit77]

That's too simple. There's nothing wrong being famous as long as you have some humility about it. If you concentrate on any creative craft (acting, writing, etc.), beautiful things will come from it.

[@realityshifter3399]

@@Madbandit77 Yeah, that's not true. If you think that then you're either naive or just being willfully ignorant.

[@huntress1013]

I was such a huge fan of him and his work. I still adore Firefly, Buffy and Dollhouse. I loved it that there was a whole Whedonverse but the open letter by Kai suckerpunched the whole fandom and tbh it only confirmed what we had all feared. No, I don't think he will come back anytime soon. Fandom is a lot of things but it is not known for being forgiving.

[@chuggaa100]

No, the lesson is don't be an asshole. He wasn't cancelled, he was held accountable

[@fatimasillah9744]

As a woman, I just wanna let some men out there know that these men in Hollywood does not represent you.

[@dqreps]

Not really sure what happened to Josh Whedon but I got a good idea what happened to those that he worked with and directed. Angrily clapped from here to infinity.

[@98953812]

What a spectacular fall from grace...

[@jamalbryant8099]

What you talking about? I can tell you never watch none of his movies or TV shows

[@ComicBrooks]

I binged Firefly's entire 1st season in 2005 , I knew of Joss Whedon from being a huge Buffy fan and me and my friend April were gonna go see Serenity the day it came out so I wanted to be in the know...... that started a long string of love for Whedon's projects. Apparently he wasn't easy to work with. . . . but with classics like Cabin In The Woods and big blockbusters like The Avengers Movies no one can deny this mans work is genus!

[@dougcoombes8497]

I always wondered why Joss Whedon could write such complex villains.... I don't any more.

[@BrabbitHabit]

A massive dose of humility and hubris would cancel each other out. That’s essentially an oxymoron. Humility is synonymous with modesty and being humble/unpretentious. Hubris is synonymous with arrogance, vanity, and conceit. In the case of humility vs. hubris, we want the former, not the latter.

[@RG-Zeldaplayer]

I have a number of issues with some of the allegations against him. Charisma Carpenter's comments for example are expressions of how she felt - not actual acts he did... and she refuses to be more specific on some of the details - which makes me think there is more to it than a vulnerable actress being berated by a Misogynist director. Some of what she alleges such as her tattoo was unprofessional on her part not his. Sarah Michelle Gellar and Amber Benson's comments lack any detail either. And as for Trachtenberg - as a 14 year old minor working on a TV show - no-one should have been left alone with her - so its odd that it needs to be pointed out that Joss wasn't... Also why wasn't he? The lack of clarity invites the worst speculation rather than actually saying what happened. Ray Fisher took umbrage at having his character rewritten and having his input rejected - and then alleged all manner of false allegations of racism against Whedon which were found after an extensive investigation (in which Fisher had a major say in how it was conducted - because he kept disagreeing with the people appointed to do it) to have zero merit whatsoever. It's telling though that many of the instances of alleged abuse happen when Whedon's hard work on shows of movies is being undermined by others - studio execs or actors. Either by becoming too popular in the case of Spike - getting pregnant and forcing an entire series to be rewritten at a time when he was writing and show running three seperate shows in the case of Carpenter, or actors refusing to film scenes or shoehorn in their own writing when Whedon was tasked with finishing Justice League. (incidentally whilst Whedon's version is bad - Snyder's would never have made it to cinemas with his eventual cut - especially since much of it was added LONG after the initial cinematic release and it's also bad.) All this points to an individual dealing poorly with intense stress and lashing out. The fact this was never addressed before is a cause for concern but film and TV sets are not immune to egos and arguments... I can't help but feel that the allegations against Whedon are a collection of his worst moments rather than the overall experience of working with him - many of his past collaborators have expressed that their experiences of him were wholly positive, and we don't know what the actors themselves were like to work with either. Truthfully the MCU could really do with having his input again - if only as an uncredited ghost writer as its seriously floundering at the moment and nothing that has been alleged has actually been criminal.

[@Dowlphin]

Thank you for pointing out what bothers ... uh ... metoo. 🤡 US society is going utterly bonkers recently/again and duiring such times skepticism and scrutiny are crucial. Immaturity is the problem: People wanting all the benefits and none of the burdens. This might also have been at play to some degree back during Buffy production because feminism leading to female entitlement and Hollywood diva mentality are not new.

[@anonmouse6337]

I've always felt Whedon could be petty and immature, so I don't doubt the allegations that he created a toxic environments on the Buffy/Angel set. However, I also agree there seems to be more to the stories lobbed at him. Carpenter, for example, seemed to have a history of thoughtlessly throwing out surprise changes. Two other Buffy/Angel producers have expressed their annoyance at her getting the tattoo and haircut without telling anybody beforehand. The pregnancy was just another instance of her not giving enough notice on something that would greatly impact production. In that context, I think it was understandable that Whedon (and the other producers) was angry with her. That does not mean he was justified in acting on that frustration, but it wasn't a case of a misogynist monster targetting a pregnant woman, as it's painted as. And after Buffy/Spike, he seemed to have matured. People on the Firefly/Dollhouse/Cabin/Avengers sets had only good things to say about him, and we never even heard of any issues on the uber stressful Age of Ultron set. JL seems, to me, to have been a case of actors getting upset that Whedon wasn't letting them influence the script like Snyder was. What's most interesting about all this is that Hollywood has blacklisted Whedon, when there are directors still working (celebrated, even) who've behaved far, far worse. Aronofsky kept filming when his actress broke her ribs. Tarantino choked his actress so she'd be able to act being suffocated more realistically. I think if Whedon's films were "serious" dramas and if he'd never been an outspoken feminist, he'd still be working today.

[@mattstarf4294]

I hate Joss Wiener and I was a massive fan of everything he did... i feel embarrassed , but your tone is grating and doesn't do your content justice, because your content is great!

[@noneed4me2n7]

Had good times watching animaniacs back in the day. I got that reference.

[@JohnnyTong215]

Do a Wtf happened to Chris Carter for the next episode, please?

[@jerogomezrobledo]

You can't entirely blame Whedon for the 2017 version of Justice League. When Snyder left JL, WB refused to wait for him to return or change the movie's release date to properly deal with his family tragedy. WB gave Whedon only 6 months to re-write, reshoot, and finish a movie that wasn't his just so WB could keep their year-end bonuses. You could try to imagine that it was a lot of pressure from WB that provoked Whedon to behave unprofessionally on the set of JL. I fully support the people coming out to speak against him, but he's not the only one to be blamed. Plus, Snyder provoked WB to interfere with JL because of the panned reception of BvS. If Snyder had done a good job, the DCEU would not have been as fractured as it is today, and Whedon would never have been involved.

[@jeffthompson9622]

I found BvS more problematic than the JL cinematic release. Too many plot elements squeezed into it.

[@jerogomezrobledo]

@@jeffthompson9622 Exactly, that was the major red flag that led to the problems of JL.

[@jeffthompson9622]

@@jerogomezrobledo Did you also have the impression that WB was too impatient to get to their equivalent of "The Avengers?"

[@watchyoutube9455]

​@@jeffthompson9622 It also didn’t help that WB forced Snyder to cut out 30 minutes of character development and motivations build up and plot elements to BVS

[@kevinsmarts9953]

@@watchyoutube9455 WB told Joss to make JL 2 hours long. Look up the runtime its exactly 120 minutes. There is no director making a film they love exactly 120 minutes long and then Synder's cut was 4 hrs and 2 mins long because there was far too much going on for one movie. Of course its no surprise that Snyder wanted to make more movies and WB forced him to try and condense things down. So no Batman movie to setup BvS or Cyborg movie to lead in to JL.

[@Mellowcanuck33]

Broke my heart to find out he was a prick in nature.

[@tkskagen]

This "new information about Joss" has saddened me... What a "switch-up" to reality. FIREFLY and SENERITY have been my favorites, but as viewers, we never get to meet the individual that we "idolize", now I am grateful that I never did! It's like in 1989 when my younger brother and I met "Ken Griffy Jr." at the mall, he was a glorified succubus of the press and treated fans like shit when we asked for signatures on our $10 Tops MLP cards... Stars just want to be left alone, and I understand that, but when they are in a public environment, they should "smoke a joint" before entering the building!

[@sabalomglitz6478]

Humans are fallible. What a revelation. Eecially iN. HOLLYWEIRD.

[@EricLinstone]

I met Elijah Wood in line at an electronics store one time. He was the nicest, most coolest dude ever. He chatted with my buddy and me. Even asked us what we were picking up. So for every Ken Griffy Jr. I like to think there's an Elijah Wood out there to keep things in balance.

[@alienboy1322]

​@@EricLinstone That's awesome. Never understood why Elijah Wood doesn't have a bigger career.

[@spikeysnack]

Uh .. is fame some sort of magical thing that makes anyone not nice to someone famous a terrible villain? All these famous people, (made famous primarily for acting in productions by a person), complaining about someone "being less than deferential" while making them rich and famous -- sounds like trying to get away with the goods. Is being an actor supposed to be a carefree funfest for them, or is it a job, that they can quit if they don't like it, or appeal to the union if they feel things are not right at the workplace. Or is fame and fortune worth suffering for their art, and then complaining later but not giving up the money or the fame? I notice no one that is currently "on the up" does the complaining, only those whose star is fading, and they need some press time. The whole "Joss made me the big Actor that I am, but I guess he should be destroyed, cause the hollywood scandal sheets like the idea ..." leaves me cold. So does the idea that because a couple of people who are famous complain, it makes a big difference more than the thousands of unfamous people that complain about other people. There is some kind of "grim fun" to trying to take Joss Whedon out, because he basically has no defense, so the accusations do nothing but garner some sympathy for a few struggling actors that apparently can't get the shine back in their stars. And of course it is easier from an outsider's perspective to side with the visible good looking ones, that have their personas written for them to be sympathized with. For some reason we think that the actors on shows know more about how things are in the industry than those that actually make the shows ... that again is a function of the press and PR hype machine. I say let the work speak for itself, personal BS of actors, directors, so on is personal. Harvey Weinstein, of course is primarily responsible, because he was an actual rapist with an actual bunch of accomplices letting it happen willingly, and that is true monstrocity, so the spill-over to anyone accused of being a jerk is colored by that. Joss will be back, because he really only had a messy divorce that caused some ugly press, treating him like Jeffery Dahmer and talking about him like he is leaving a trail of bodies behind him in his wake is really a gross injustice. The piling on in the giant crapfest against him is telling in itself, and part of the darkness of human nature, a sick groupthink, mob justice with no thought of any blowback on the accusers. Don't Like Joss? Don't support the studios that make projects with him, by not buying the channels, not looking at the product. It's easy. Just don't consume the media. Let those who do go ahead, but don't try to third-person shame them for liking some show or movie.

[@feleepe]

As someone who has closely followed Joss' carreer since Buffy, I'd like to add some tidbits of info that didn't fit the video: • Joss is a nepo baby. Both his father and his grandfather were screenwriters. Joss had the best education and probably a lot of doors opened for him because of this; • Alien Resurrection was butched by director Jean Pierre Jeunet and FOX. The third act was completely rewritten (it was supposed to be a battle for Earth, saving it from being dominated by aliens.) The tone was changed, the sets were too well lit for a horror, the acting was atrocious even by great actors such as Ron Perlman. The original Joss script is pretty neat. You can find it easily enough on Google; • Joss did NOT do a page one rewrite of Justice League. I've compared his cut to Snyder's and they're different, but similar in a lot of ways. If Joss had done a page one rewrite, we would probably have gotten something decent; • Josstice League was doomed from the start. WB demanded a 2 hour cut for a movie that originally was supposed to be made into a two-parter. It truly was impossible to make that script fit and make sense in only 2 hours. He had an outrageous crunchy time to finish, edit and CGI it, which is why the movie ended up looking the way it did. I don't like Josstice League but I understand why it came out the way it did; • The second part of The Nevers' Season 1 was done without him, executive produced by new showrunner Philippa Goslett (who ruined it.) The first part, done by Joss, is criminally underrated and remains one of my favorite things he has done. It's the type of show you must watch more than once to peel away layers and understand completely.

[@Carabas72]

And nobody cares about any perceived lack of quality of his work. His problem is not being able to keep his penis to himself and other various creepiness and bigotry.

[@feleepe]

@@Carabas72 nobody cares about your opinion, yet here you are.

[@jamalbryant8099]

I started liking joss since SPEED, and Twister, this was before buffy

[@trw1782]

Also: couple of the allegations were taken super out of context. James Marsters told the 'pushed him to wall' thing as a fun story in podcast and said he would instantly work with Joss if he had a chance. Joss wanted to make vampires bad and unlikable in Buffy and thought Masters was too charismatic for it.

[@ItsaKindOfMagic86]

Fair video. Alot to cover in 24 minutes. I thought what Joss did for scripts was called "script doctor", Carrie Fisher also would act as one for movie scripts. I thought "ghost writer" was what is called of people that didnt get credited for scripts. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong.

[@robinbickel4594]

You're not wrong. My husband's cousin and his writing partner got paid 50,000 for 1 day.s work script doctoring the first Flintstones movie. (They were hired to punch up jokes).

[@GnomesRox]

@@robinbickel4594 Haha, they were only two of 35+ writers who got a stab on that script too.

[@robinbickel4594]

@@GnomesRox which is one reason that movie sucked

[@jamalbryant8099]

@@robinbickel4594 I thought Steven e D'Souza wrote the whole thing, I like Steven

[@filmcrit]

He was super lucky to be the son of acclaimed TV writer, Tom Whedon. Joss is a talented nepo-baby.

[@Madbandit77]

And the grandson of sitcom writer John Whedon.

[@jamalbryant8099]

What's a nepo baby?

[@virz4432]

​​​@@jamalbryant8099[nepo]tism

[@Crawlerz2468]

Way back when as a kid I entered a sweepstakes and won a Titan AE soundtrack on... get this... CD. Which was awesome!

[@shainewhite2781]

He got cancelled after allegations against him were revealed that he was verbally abusive to the cast of Buffy The Vampire Slayer and would threaten the cast with violence.

[@sabalomglitz6478]

Like that never happens in Hollyweird

[@moserfugger6363]

Shaine White got cancelled after allegations against him were revealed that he was verbally abusive to elderly people and would threaten his grandma with violence.

[@fatdaddyeddiejr]

Stanley Kubrick was terrible to the cast and crew on his movie sets. On the set of the Shining. Kubrick treated Shelley Duvall like shit. Kubrick is on camera calling Duvall a piece of shit and told the rest of the crew to "Don't help her. She's a fucking piece of shit. Just leave her there." But yet people only want to talk about how much of a great director Stanley Kubrick was.

[@moserfugger6363]

@@fatdaddyeddiejr Yeah, people really never talk about this story that we've already heard a thousand times. So let's dig up Kubrick's corpse and tell him he's cancelled.

[@fatdaddyeddiejr]

@@moserfugger6363 so just because Kubrick is dead. He can get a pass and his fan boys can still kiss his ass? Want to talk about how Will Smith, James Cameron, Kathleen Turner, Christian Bale and others treat cast and crew on and off the set? But please, tell me how it's only Joss Whedon is the only mean and terrible person in Hollywood.

[@ericpleasant7225]

In his lowly defense, Whedon was purposely brought in by Warner Bros to make JUSTICE LEAGUE more Marvel-like and to lighten it all up. Looking at both versions, Snyder had his own silly nonsense going on in both versions.

[@DrKrapulax]

Most people also forget that Snyder had all the feedback on the theatrical version, so that he fixed some of the problems doesn't prove him to be a better director. Mauler made an amazing video comparing the two versions, absolutely worth a watch even though it's a bit long. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mXbJdn2fh6x2r9U

[@ItsaKindOfMagic86]

ERIC PLEASANT yep I like the review by youtuber MauLer going over the JL movie versions, sometimes i find fans praising and shredding these movies to be more entertaining than the films themselves hehe

[@danielebowman]

People seem to forget Snyder made Batman vs Superman and it was utterly terrible. His Justice League may be better, but it isn't a good film.

[@mattyt1961]

the other thing is, Snyder had 4 hours to play with, not a cinema friendly 2 (ish). For me, they were both average to crap, but for different reasons, although JW cut is at least mercifully short

[@DrKrapulax]

@Gittana Your bullshit is demonstrably false, but hey, it's no problem for me if you're a blind Snyder-sycophant. Mauler analyzed a dozen examples of Snyder changing his own sh_t because fans didn't like some parts that were unchanged by Whedon.

[@ashleyellis8875]

In my opinion Cordelia was meant to be in Angel till it ended season 4 to me felt like he wrote it to force charisma out it seemed forced to me

[@cornelldgreen]

Why is everyone so afraid to say that Zack Snyder's daughter committed suicide? Because that's what happened...

[@rmsgrey]

Because mentioning the word "suicide" in a KZbin video is rumoured to be instant demonitisation.

[@cornelldgreen]

@rmsgrey Ohhhh... well, that makes a hell of a lot of sense. Thanks. I think it's a bit severe, and kinda "denial-y", but YT *is* a business, and I ain't mad at anybody for protecting their revenue stream. Not to be morose, or belabor the point, but I've noticed that it's not just here on YT. *Nowhere* in the media will they broach the "S" word when mentioning this tragedy. I can understand being sensitive to the Snyder's loss and all, but this _is_ a thing that happens and, like so many other things, I'm not sure if it helps to process it - or avert it - if we collectively pretend it never even happened. I'm just spouting off at this point. Don't pay me any mind... I'll see myself out... 😕😳👀

[@positivetakes5592]

lol COME ON not to defend him but he said the character Spike was dead, not the actor James Marsters. Ya know because the original plan was for Spike to be killed in season 2

[@HatemSamhan]

He slammed James Marsters against the wall...

[@positivetakes5592]

@@HatemSamhan Yes and I didn't say anything about that, the part that's easily disputed is what I said. He didn't threaten to kill JM

[@GnomesRox]

@@HatemSamhan He definitely crossed a line, but I think people made that interaction seem much more nefarious than it really was. I believe James said pushed, not slammed. James also didn't really think much of it, and understood Joss's frustrations.

[@nicklaw040]

Cabin in the Woods was so so so good! My favorite horror movie of all time!

[@jgw1846]

So he was mean and his ex-wife made unsubstantiated accusations. It sounds like a dog pile of people who were jealous of his success.

[@PrincessofPower84]

Sure, Jan.

[@DrKuryakin]

Hulk flinging Loki around is never gonna get old, punny god

[@Teamo86]

I still love his TV shows. Sue me!

[@Silver-rx1mh]

Same here!

[@deborahblackvideoediting8697]

Me too. Always will.

[@TheTribalgame]

Ok. Nobody said you can't. Just that the guy who made them is a bad person.

[@jamesbond5174]

My lawyers will be in touch

[@TheScumAlsoRises]

Cool. What's the point you're making, though?

[@Abcdee8]

Lovely background music playing throughout parts of this, was very pleasant.

[@elgrifolorian]

Firefly, Serenity, Ironman and the Avengers are my favorite series and movies and finding out he was involved in Toy Story, Titan A.E and Alien makes me appreciate him more. Hope he gets back to making epic sci fi.

[@PeterParker-ff7ub]

buffy was great because action, comedy, drama and characters.

[@NelsonStJames]

Odd that at one time people didn't think you could have more than one superhero in a film at the same time, when cramming all of a hero's A-list villains into one film had become standard practice long before The Avengers came out.

[@danpsou]

No one ever mentions how The Cabin in the Woods seems A LOT like a film adaptation of the board game Betrayal at House on the Hill. Probably because very few people even know that game exists, I guess. But it is amazing how similar they are.

[@mikedebois2566]

Joss is awesome!!! Still my favorite nerd!!!

[@jamalbryant8099]

Same

[@jasonmckenzie2835]

Love his Astonishing X-Men comic book series.

[@jagmo]

@jasonmckenzie2835: Oh, yeah!

[@Urielbenavides]

I wondered what if joss whedon was involved in a Black Widow movie back when he did the first two avengers films, will it be better or worse than what we got?

[@jamalbryant8099]

I know the writing will be good, probably got some cameos, I wonder what will look like if joss wrote captain marvel, I know the dialogues will be better, and the part about the cat scratch nick fury eye? Joss will definitely DEFINITELY edit that shit out lol

[@jagmo]

@jamalbryant8099: The cat: "Yeah, man, that scene was weak." :)

[@Yeaster]

Joss is behind some of my favorite media of all time. But yeeesh, he clearly had some unresolved issues that he took out on people. I think he can make a comeback, but he'd need a lot of humility and to take accountability. He's extremely talented

[@titowrestling]

He was scapegoated for the terrible Justice League movie that Snyder and Warner Bros were rushing. He staples together what he could, but it was too late. We NEVER heard any accusations before Justice League bombed.

[@marinakotova51]

Not all. I first read about Charisma’s situation back in middle 2000s on Buffy forums. So she did not accuse him now when everybody started, she just reminded that she has been already telling the story and no one cared.

[@robinbickel4594]

@@marinakotova51 100% correct

[@lawsonrg01]

It was a con story, and anecdote, that turned into a tail end #metoo allegation when the time was right.

[@ECKohns]

His treatment of Charisma Carpenter was already well known long before Justice League.

[@jamalbryant8099]

@@ECKohns yeah but she didn't confirm that until ray "the Hollywood Karen" fisher Said something after the announcement of the synder cut

[@ilshaguides]

17:01 "...and their sister, Dot." 😂 I miss the Animaniacs.

[@josephhewitt1867]

Regarding the Michelle Trachtenberg bit about her not allowed to be left alone with Joss, no child actor is allowed to be left alone on set without a parent. If a minor is working in California, then California labor laws state that a parent is required to be on set (within sight and sound) if the child is under 16. If a minor is working outside of California, then SAG-AFTRA rules state that if a minor is under 18, a parent must be on set (within sight and sound) UNLESS the minor has passed the CHSPE (California High School Proficiency Exam). A minor who has passed the CHSPE is considered a “legal 18” in the eyes of the industry. They are considered an adult for the purposes of the production. Note that a young actor must be 16 to take the CHSPE if they are based outside of California. Kids who reside in California can take the CHSPE either when they are 16, or in the 2nd semester of their sophomore year. So, a California-based actor who is young for their grade could conceivably pass the CHSPE at 15. They would then be eligible to work as a legal 18, on a set without parental supervision.

[@afwalker1921]

Okay, I get it, it get it, but if you knew how hard it is to get anything made, you wouldn't be so hard on the guy for his irregular production history. Fourteen episodes of Firefly was beating the odds. Never do business with Fox! There could have been a Buffy follow-on in 2005, four seasons of content were eventually written, but because of Firefly the option went to Fox. They held it, then backed out after changes at the executive level. Nothing was cast, nothing was filmed. Having anything broadcast on television is an accomplishment. Never do business with Fox...

[@nicovandermerwe2747]

Never meet your heroes man. Never. He was my hero.

[@deborahblackvideoediting8697]

Me too. 😥

[@bujinkanatori]

A bully who verbally abuses women can be a feminist. He just has cognitive dissonance about his own behaviour.

[@gareckthetailor9918]

His forehead kept growing but not his mind

[@ericseitzler81]

Yea his hair got cancer and died first.

[@deaditeera]

😂😂👍

[@herminator9573]

You should make a video About what happened to J.J. Abrams, I mean he and Joss Whedon were the biggest movie directors of the last decade, but now Joss' career is over for a while, and J.J. Abrams isn't even mentioned, as if he disappeared. Seeing how he was considered to be a director on the level of Spielberg, his name is quite dead these days, and this decade he did not have a single film or television project, simply a relic of the past.

[@LeonardoKlotz]

Everything he did in The Avengers, the Russo Brothers did better

[@jamalbryant8099]

Did you know joss ghost written winter soldier but he didn't get credited for it

[@shyguy5473]

Russo brothers didn't do Hawkeye well and made Thor and Hulk a joke. Although Taika could also be blamed for Thor. The first Avengers movie is way better than Endgame.

[@jimperry6463]

2023 was not the year I expected to hear a mention of “The Killer Angels”.

[@injusticejames]

What a one sided report. Clearly a Snyder fan😐

[@jeremyphillips7827]

Sounds like he's in serious need of therapy and anger management training. This was the first time I'd heard about the rule that he wasn't allowed to be alone with Michelle Trachtenberg. That is extremely concerning.

[@TerryOnTuesday]

The issue with Michelle Trachten berg isn't as 'creepy' as the narrator of this video makes out. Basically Michelle, then 14 or 15, was flirting a lot on set with James (Spike) Marsters, so Joss took her to the office and berated her, telling her to stop it. That bog back to Michelles' mother, who demanded that she never be left alone with Joss again.

[@Argeaux2]

He also got excited when telling Amber Benson that her character Tara was going to killed. Basically getting excited over the fact that she was about to be out of a job, after he used her to make the musical work.

[@KadeemG61]

I don’t know he’ll ever make a comeback. I used to like Joss Whedon. He has made geek fandom into something of a cult renaissance. Buffy, Angel, the underrated Firefly, Dollhouse, The Avengers, Avengers: Age of Ultron. He was my idol growing up as a kid back then. But now, he’s in a low profile and he screwed up everyone. Not just the cast of Buffy and Angel, but Josstice League as well. I feel so bad for Ben Affleck on his experience with the movie. He was great as Batman, I wish I could say more but there’s no defending Josstice League. Joss threw everything away for being a jerk and a feminist hypocrite. Also, he had a falling out with his wife at the time before the allegations years later. So, in retrospect, I’m not going to say “Fuck Joss Whedon.” You voice your own opinion on him, he’s already cancelled. But I will always watch some of his great shows and movies.

[@mydogeatspuke]

Firely isn't underrated lmao. It's VERY popular. Dollhouse is way more "underrated." Most people have never heard of it. Unlike Firefly.

[@GnomesRox]

Ben Affleck's experience isn't just solely to do with Joss. It was a combination of hating super hero genre in general that started with BVS, and after toiling and failing to make the his Batman film work, while forced to do reshoots amidst a divorce and his alcoholism. From many accounts, the cast were being quite difficult to Joss as well (which is understandable, having to take new orders from completely new director, even though the studio hired him for that explicit job to rework the movie in super short amount of time). Even though Josstice League was not great, I think of it like a harmless throwaway popcorn movie with some pretty corny dialogue, while Snyder's JL was a tortuous, confusing, slog. It's amazing that people actually prefer the latter, but that's subjective. Ultimately, Joss had incredible arrogance for taking on the job, but I don't view his JL experience to be a very fair situation for anyone to be in, even if he could have clearly handled the situation better.

[@jamalbryant8099]

He also created agent of shield

[@mydogeatspuke]

@@jamalbryant8099 co created.

[@Idiotwriter711]

Hush was great and my fave buffy episode. And I may be alone in this but I loved that show the Nevers ...josstice league. Great vid I loved it

[@Serai3]

I find it amusing that anyone can say Aliens is good but Alien Resurrection isn't.

[@Abcdee8]

it would have been the best of the franchise, had it not been tampered with.

[@mattf5935]

Aliens is amazing. Alien Resurrection is not in the same tier at all. Cabin in the Woods, Avengers and Serenity are Whedon’s best movies. His Much Ado adaptation was fine but not remarkable.

[@Serai3]

@@mattf5935 Aliens is a self-indulgent dikfest that ignored every rule laid down by the original. It's dull, boring, and loud, but that seems to be the measure of quality among some viewers.

[@meinbherpieg4723]

'Think it stars a little Leonardo DiCaprio" Proceeds to show an obvious Leonardo DiCaprio

[@wescarpenter8364]

Canceled for being mean. This is the worst generation in the history of civilization.

[@Print229]

James Marsters was really bullied by Joss -not just that one time against a wall. He talked about it in interviews long before 2020 and he low-key insinuated it in just about every interview he gave. I remember he once said "If you like Spike's character, look to Joss. He's the real life version of Spike."

[@georgehgordy1690]

Joss whedon's ego is what happened to Joss Whedon. Just because you can be a douche doesn't mean you have to be

[@jamalbryant8099]

Just like Michael Bay?

[@georgehgordy1690]

@@jamalbryant8099 no doubt Michael Bay is a dick. You figure he would be a little bit more humble since he got his start making music videos for Poco

[@weirdkitty07]

Joss was never a nerd or a feminist. He was a chameleon, an poser.

[@marcusnolte7476]

ever so often, an out of everybodies league talented person is called a bully... and more often than not, a special talent comes with a deficit in behavior or even character. A lot of these gifted people are "difficult to work with" (Orson Welles, Dennis Hopper, Marlon Brando, Stanley Kubrick just to name a few) and I say, so what?. As soon as the allegations start with "... according to his ex wife", you should take it with a grain of salt.

[@roll14tideroll]

Tell that to the audience who want the most perfect person ever

[@no_lives_left]

Seriously if justice league would have been as good as Avengers no one would care that joss was mean to actors. They certainly wouldn't be considering these things abuse and making videos that say joss wasnt allowed around a teenager without important context. It is definitely a lie to say joss was threatening to kill an actor, when that actor has specifically and repeatedly said he knew Joss was talking to his character and did not feel threatened (corporate would not allow joss to kill off spike). I could go through how ridiculous all these claims are, like cyborgs claiming joss made him whiter in the final cut of Justice League, or charisma Carpenter claiming horrible abuse but the worst she can come up with is she over heard him call her fat when she was pregnant. There's a big difference between being abusive or harassing people and just being an ass. There are actual legal definitions for these terms.

[@Bentmetal13]

This has been a long time coming

[@TyyTheFlyGuy]

Eh he got canceled years ago. He refused to direct more Firefly even if given the opportunity so he’s pretty dead to me regardless of how shitty of a person he is.

[@disturbedpyro4511]

The thumbnail pic looks more like LeonLush than Joss Whedon!😂😂 I was confused at first😂

[@BeverlyHighland]

Hollywood forgets pedophiles like bryan singer, Woody Allen and Roman Polanski, but cancel actual good directors for being mean… Put him in anger management and #BringBackFirefly