Jocko's "Playing the Game" vs Dr. Jordan Peterson's "Agreeableness" - Jocko Willink

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@jockowillink @echocharles
Excerpt from JOCKOPODCAST 125

[@brandong.207]

When Jocko speaks, I hear extreme practicality. Do what works to obtain your goals and toss the rest. Don't let your ego and pride get in the way of making smart decisions.

[@Carlos.Rivera]

Hope Mr. Peterson are doing great. Will be cool if he get invited again

[@dm20422]

I agree

[@andrewc9896]

He did a decent talk in Melbourne on nov 12

[@SornGeorge]

@@andrewc9896 I think that was a talk from 2019 unfortunately

[@JPBotero717]

100% show your influence Jocko

[@youlig1]

@@SornGeorge yes, that is right

[@agustinfernandez3553]

Jocko: *play the game while holding knife* Echo: Absolutely yes play the game

[@jeroylenkins9240]

Ik what podcast has a host holding. Knife and shit 😂

[@jagpro91]

Balanced perspective from Jocko "there's a dichotomy to this" Willink.

[@irisgonzalez-caulder9352]

Peoples front of Judea I will unlink smart Jocko and smart Willink and Bret lynn KING Nice try bros

[@LukeC908]

Things Jocko dislikes: Echo’s skinny knees and ankles

[@N.I.R.A.T.I.A.S.]

Jocko: I'll never tell anyone. Echo: Maybe you should tell me. Nice try, bro.

[@1133331313131313131]

dude when pick up that knife and start pointing to echo i bet echo was playing the game with those smiles

[@williamcanty5122]

I've only listened to the first 2 minutes of this but I'm pretty certain that Jordan Peterson has made the case that assertion and aggression are not the same things. To be aggressive is to be confrontational, often times unnecessarily. To be assertive is to speak honestly and directly, especially in scenarios where people won't like what you have to say. Anyone care to share their thoughts?

[@CaseyBurnsInvesting]

A great book about playing the game: How to Win Friends and Influence People

[@hubrisnaut]

My mom gave me that book at 13... I get it..

[@petter9399]

sounds gay

[@irisgonzalez-caulder9352]

Casey Burns Investing the book is about good relationship with friends and people but Casey Burns Investing you think friends and people is a game

[@irisgonzalez-caulder9352]

@@petter9399 I know your gay aka happy Quite a team ? 9 goes along with someone slanders me resulting in my friends in Law Firm alienating themselves from Cary and I maybe I'm wrong I'm not sure or 6 partiality and/or ulterior motive with bi-sexuals and/or gay

[@nunyabeeswax303]

If you going to work in any organization i would recommend reading the prince by Machiavelli. Even though is hundreds of years old its just as relevant today.

[@axelva2635]

My philosophy teacher lend it to me, it was an eye opening read the way he explores how to build institutions. Great book.

[@majungasaurusaaaa]

The Prince and The Art of War, 2 Must-Reads.

[@Killingzone99]

How to avoid becoming a sociopath with that though,

[@huntermasters1818]

Agreeableness, extraversion, openness, neuroticism, conscientious. Great video guys

[@JR-pr1xh]

Clean your lobster, so to speak

[@brucemorrison3301]

16:00 You knew he had to slip in jiu jitsu at some point

[@bryanl.morrison552]

Are you my dad?

[@schmuckballs]

I'm a paramedic student a month into my final ride alongs and I needed to hear this. Sometimes the hardest thing to say is "you're right boss". Balancing self confidence and humility in regards to your mentor is really hard. Constantly asking myself "is this a test?" before answering a question or responding to a criticism is nerve racking.

[@Kat22Kit]

My Dad’s been a paramedic/Firefighter for 20+yrs and my advice is soak up advice and just be empathetic. Everyone, patients and guys in the firehouse love a friendly nice guy. It’s a Tuesday for you but someone’s worst day of their life. So for sure humility and humanity, remember you will never stop learning.

[@DrDavidmx]

@@Kat22Kit Well I don’t agree 100% on that, you can’t just always be the nice agreeable guy, people won’t respect you, have to find that balance.

[@schmuckballs]

@@Kat22Kit Ya there's definitely a balance to being a leader, especially in EMS. I can't bark orders at people like I did in football or on job sites, so it's really difficult I find. Especially in prehospital.. There's no clear leader, you need to establish yourself quickly and politely to guide the team.

[@victorcabanillasgarcia9168]

have backbone, be the best at your job that way even if there no clear leader you will be. Being humble doesnt mean being a pushover

[@ethicalcheeze1407]

Jesus, Jocko holding the knife at Echo while saying "I'll never tell anyone" is some S+ teir internet content

[@warrenpresnell]

Love this podcast it’s bailed me out of tough situation. Truly Grateful 🙏❤️🙏 Thank You.

[@RightSideNews]

Jordan peterson would refer to this as the “meta game”

[@mnt809]

This dichotomy is an art. I'm not sure it can really be taught or explained precisely. I've been a leader in military and in business. But, I started as a follower. Now in a new career, I need to be a follower again for some time. The time to rise up will come again as it always does. I've stopped looking for it. It always seems find me. And I don't pass the buck. As a follower you are building trust and competence, and learning to see things from different angles. I think this is what playing the game entails. Being assertive means not letting opportunities to perform pass you by. Don't wait until you have a perfect understanding of things. You will learn more by doing. Standing your ground can't really happen if you haven't built that foundation of trust and competence first.

[@Almosteasyese]

I feel like Robert Greene would make an excellent guest, partly because of the angles and all the historical references he could give for playing the game.

[@Ulvmannsskjebne]

Agreed👍

[@MetalCooking666]

I think the problem is that Jocko means something much milder than most people think of when he uses the phrase “play the game.” He means being polite, constructive and respectful of the chain of command rather than being needlessly confrontational.

[@kadoman65]

Great convo, thanks men!

[@randalldemichel4818]

Good stuff Jocko. Thanks for the broad scope of dealing with the things that bother us and difficulties with people.

[@RozzaMindset]

Very interesting podcast!Thank you for sharing with us such valuable content!

[@alexandervilla5673]

This is one of the reasons The Dichotomy of Leadership is a good book, finding the balance between two opposing things. Agreeable vs disagreeable, punishment vs reward, work vs play. Too many people are out of balance in life.

[@DrDavidmx]

Exactly my problem, I must be socially retarded.

[@hubrisnaut]

I laughed out loud when my boss said he might have to look for a replacement for me. I then said, "good luck!"... I got what I wanted and a discernable respect from him thereafter. be on the right path...

[@ikechukwunwachukwu2508]

"D you think I thought I was better than my boss? I did, I was and I waited my goddamn turn". Harvey Specter

[@majungasaurusaaaa]

As confrontational and disagreeable as the young SEAL Jocko was, he was still in the military. And 99% of the time your response to the superior is "Yes Sir."

[@danstalter]

You're missing the point. You obey the orders of those appointed over you, via the chain of command, because of the fact that the chain of command is the backbone of any successful organization.

[@paganslayer8661]

@@danstalter He is agreeing with you.

[@Absurdword]

@@danstalter You’re the one missing the point actually. He’s emphasizing Jocko’s point, not disagreeing with it.

[@Mike-gc1fn]

Who else thinks Jocko needs to be the next president? Seriously we need a leader!

[@ofon2000]

1 million subs. Do you think he would still be alive if he was giving you the full, unfiltered and unadulterated truth?

[@nobeldecker3049]

@@ofon2000 Mr. Willink is in the eye of the tiger, and he knows it, lots of eyes actually.

[@ofon2000]

@@nobeldecker3049 Yessir he sure is

[@dm20422]

He's got my vote

[@mooneymakes359]

Parler might help

[@nerminc.1713]

"I'll never tell anyone" - He said while holding up a knife.

[@garinforsberg7233]

Thank you for the lesson. I will follow these steps!

[@garinforsberg7233]

Selfishness is The Original Sin. Paraphrasing St. Augustine

[@andrewrandolph2661]

I’ve been looking everywhere and cannot find anything on former PJ’s and was wondering if you know any and could have them on the podcast?

[@freshstart3555]

12:13 Echo: You ever watch survivor? Jocko: No

[@Ray_Charles]

It's a hot night. The mind races. You think about your knife: the only friend that hasn't betrayed you, the only friend that won't be dead by sun up.

[@massivarri3099]

Jocko it's an amzing mentor and Leader, thanks you so much for your sharing! Now I am big fan of SEAL and your podcast!

[@_____7704]

I am seriously doing better at work after having adopted the mantra "If it ain't being inspected, its being neglected", and "An organisation does only the things well that the boss inspects..." You guys are seriously changing people all over the world.

[@tazmanrehman]

You can grow from listening too these guys you can never shrink 👍

[@DRICH1394]

Jocko: "Nobody knows my pet peeves or things that I disagree with" Echo: "You should tell me what I do" *Jocko picks up knife🤣

[@mattsandford1935]

haha I was looking for this comment! Well done! 😁😁

[@steve6548]

One of the most important lessons I have learned from Jocko is to express all emotions, especially negative emotions, in a positive way. I have to "play the game" at my job, and I frequently have to remind myself to express emotions in a positive way. I have a tyrant for a boss.

[@kaydenpow3403]

Dear Mr. Jocko I'm not sure if you read the comments but I was wondering if you could tell me what it takes to be a navy seal. I am currently 15 and have always wanted to be in the military (preferably the Army or Navy). My dad who is currently in the National Guard has made me do push ups and sit ups daily (100 each) and I have done a few other work outs on my own to train my body to be some what prepared if I do get a chance to become a navy seal. I was curious if you could tell me the proper work out to do every day and the right way to go about signing up to be a navy seal.

[@sulim3437]

Play the game= Agreeable with the objective in mind.

[@matthewg.garcia9415]

Just noticed that you guys just topped over 1 MILLION subscribers! Congrats!!

[@JayceDubz]

you should do an episode with Rob O'Neil! I started your podcasts on here two months ago from episode one! best podcasts ever created!

[@floridaman6982]

Reminds me of survivor, super interesting when to be agreeable and when to fight. Haha after I wrote that they actually mentioned the show!!

[@mackjuha1879]

Dave Chappelle's "When keeping it real goes wrong"

[@kryptichands968]

Great analogy, one i use often.

[@MrBatwings3]

This is the most Jocko thing I have ever seen Most respect

[@MsFitVegan]

What a great video!!!!! 🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆

[@chasingblue8952]

What can someone do if the game, or expectation, is being agreeable: Over achieving direct results for customers?

[@plutonium120]

i still struggle to strike the balance with this one. sometimes i'm backwards, agreeable when i shouldn't be and outspoken when also should not be. i find it really hard to tolerate people who are real fucked up. like no one in their life ever told them to come correct or when to just shut the fuck up. (usually i'll try to let my silence speak for me or or try saying something modest, both usually ineffective.) i think i get too caught up in what everyone is doing around me and forget to focus on my own thing sometimes. anyone with similar experiences or recommendations?

[@jesseknox9322]

So, this playing the game concept I've been contemplating since Dr. Petersons lectures. Its fascinating. I consider myself more of an observer and observing myself interacting with others and others interactions... it really is a game and we are still kids at heart. Most dont show the child, but it's there. So, at work I've learned to play the game: build our product efficiently as possible. Cool, but there are sets of sub-games with my co-workers and the CNC stuff I run. Ok, so some folks initiate their game and most i engage with and have fun or know how to engage their game. Some I haven't really figured out and not sure how to interact. One guy... his game is chicken little and I try to pass the ball back with positivity well then he wants to argue. So i choose not to play his game and treat him with respect, but not falling into his own game because it is unproductive, but we can still work together. Ok so, outside of work one thing I really need to work on is playing games with other like at the gym. I get super intense and focus on the process. It's a spiritual thing for me, but dont like playing ANY games with anyone at the gym. Now is that a positive or a negative thing? Probably negative because what if I am losing an opportunity? Because of my cold shoulder attitude. Something I need to improve on and knock that wall over. So the idea of playing the game either in work and maneuvering in life, but also the play circuit in people social interaction is so rooted its fascinating and something to check yourself on how you engage with others.

[@texasamerica372]

Well, I understand where you are coming from with the gym scenario - work seems to be going well for you. Consider this: You play the game at work and you are engaged with your peers and everyone at the company. But the situation is completely different in the gym. Why are you in the gym? To build relationships with the team? Probably not, since you take working out very serious. Working out is about you and you getting better. There is a dichotomy with time also, you see. If you play the game at work and then also at the gym to socialize, well number one you’ll take a lot longer to wrap up your workouts and number two they’ll be worse. You have to prioritize your objectives: Prioritize and Execute. Working out religiously might be the counterbalance you need to play the game all day at work, making it more beneficial if you worked out hard and could then play the game. That doesn’t mean alienate people when you meet them at the gym but maybe keep it brief. They will respect you more, if you are clear in valuing your workouts highly. So there are dichotomies on the micro and macro level that you need to consider and decide what you regard as right based on your core objectives. Have a good one

[@jesseknox9322]

@@texasamerica372 hey that's a great perspective! Thank you for the detailed reply!

[@joewer2839]

Is the mulch protein kosher great work thanks jocko

[@kashiftauseef]

Time to get Jordan Peterson back on the podcast !

[@curlymanjordan]

Thank you. I scored in the 93rd percentile for assertiveness , but also 95th percentile for agreeableness . I could really reconcile it but I grew up overly agreeable and learned how to be assertive but also I never mind playing the game now. Until I don’t. Thank you

[@joshrowe2275]

15:16 Ecco let’s out some sound that I wasn’t quite ready for

[@TheDogggrecords]

Phenomenal! 👏🏻

[@clare2540]

the b&w filter is a vibe

[@DJ_Gallow]

Dis stuff goes deep! Damn this podcast is good

[@gcoffey223]

Great question

[@mykulpierce]

An overly assertive person may end up as their own business owner while a super agreeable person will never climb a business. If you want to belong to a group of peers a certain level of agreeable qualities definitely needed. Thank you for clarifying

[@Tristen501]

This was a really good question.

[@Elevateyourlife100]

Thank You Much 😊

[@JZ505]

I can't remember who said it but it makes sense. "Don't hate the player and don't hate the game. Learn the rules of the game so you can win"

[@enrico_sbf]

i just found out we had the same Timex watch, unfortunately I was a dumb kid and when the wristband got busted 10 years ago, got into a drawer, and I've since lost it after many moves, hope to find it someday. Maybe if I had total ownership since that time. sad and funny, but made me think after that I only had a lame watch I never loved as much as my cherished one just like yours, damn, a nice watch, and that text memory got me through so much I can't even tell how good memories flourished after the mourning. If I lost it, hope that some hobo who got it from the dumpster is being sharp with his time now. Cheers, nice new year.

[@stoltobot]

‘Agreeableness’ is a personality trait. ‘Playing the game’ is a choice. One you consciously choose to do, the other you consciously need to be aware of and try to regulate your own nature to match the situation

[@mmmhowbowfoqyew]

It's equally important to recognize when breaking the game is appropriate. The founders did it in 1776.

[@TruthSubjective]

Thank you!

[@peterr6988]

I like how you pick up the knife half way through

[@djfeynumba1]

Hey I love your podcast! I always try to put myself in the situations you speek of and I feel like I’ve grown from these videos. I don’t know if you read the KZbin comments but I have an issue at work. I put up a piece of art in our office with a friend. After this we placed our names in a small corner at the bottom but people keep rubbing my name off and not the other guy. I’ve asked people not to and leadership felt it wasn’t a big enough deal to ask people not to themselves. So I took it into my own hands and I continue to put my name up even though they continue to take it down. It got to the point to where I was told to stop putting my name up or I risking getting in trouble. Am I in the wrong for taking pride in my work? What do you think I should do?

[@djfeynumba1]

In clarification because I feel like I’m not giving enough detail what caused the problem. When people scrubbed away my name while in front of me I would put it back up right away in front of them. I wouldn’t show emotions or get angry I would just put it back up and walk away. They went to our leadership and said this was causing problems in our group. I’ve stopped putting my name up now but I don’t feel like I’m in the wrong, maybe I’m just being stubborn.

[@FNGACADEMY]

Would love to jump on with you guys! Mentors 4 Military went well ep. 261

[@Flips44]

Jocko makes a great point

[@alvaroherrera8064]

Why does jocko wear his watch sideways?

[@adamcostilla1692]

This is perfectly demonstrated in the first few chapters of "Pilgrims Progress" by two characters named "Obstinate" and "Pliable".

[@AverageJoe69420]

Jocko's sly grin is the best 😂

[@thatotherguy8138]

An interesting point of view to add to this - particularly with the "You're in this to win." idea - is Peterson's talks about "winning" an argument with your partner. You might be "right" about the argument, but is it worth "winning"? You might be right about something - but is it the cost of winning higher than the cost of losing?

[@garrett3441]

This is some deep discernment..

[@Life-of-Riley]

This is exactly what I need to hear.😮

[@JsBuonadonna]

Moral of the story: you gotta kiss the ring before you wear the ring.

[@codyboudreau2838]

''Use Deception, The Outcome Justifies the Means''

[@wowsdrawkcab]

Playing with the knife because you're "playing the game" or subconsciousness?

[@JTBacchanalist]

Mr. Willink, is it possible for you to get Sgt Brad Colbert or Nathaniel Fick on a podcast? I think that will be an awesome interaction.

[@lazznotjustauniformanalyst65]

I'm an introvert and slowly working on my social skills. "Mastering the grey area" I call it. It's tough to navigate but in time you can and will. Playing the game versus agreeableness. I'm not just a Uniform

[@TB-ModelRR]

Trying to have conversation on KZbin = #Resist I listen to JP quite often. Though I cannot provide quotes I think he would agree in the differences of being agreeable and playing the game.

[@trevorlawrence310]

I have been agreeable to lesson conflict and lower stress. I think its a introverted and nerotic mindset. It has caused problems in all areas of life. I try to work on this stuff. I watch these vids and learn alot.

[@CW86228]

I agree with this 10 fold. This is how I became the boss at the company I work for. He also offered me to buy the company from him with the proceeds from the company when he retires in a year. The main thing is build a relationship learn what needs to be done, exceed those expectations and don't be a 'yes man' bring something to the table. Build off everything they give you and make your self a resource that can't be contradicted or argued with. Have standards, engrain them in your team and lead.

[@CW86228]

Just finished the video and you gave me so much confirmation. I've made mistakes for sure but having the main objective first and everyone above me and below me always knew it would get done because of this way off thinking. I never made excuses to those above just asked for advice. Then of the men below I'd show them what I knew and also appreciate if they had better ideas, all while working alongside them and I'll do that until I can't. Because in the end it will lead to more safety and profit, and that how I will win when I am part owner, then full owner.

[@howbout2785]

Are you hiring?

[@CW86228]

@@howbout2785 not currently, it's been slow oilfield has a lot of ups and downs.

[@JalenCrespo]

I needed 2 hear this message as a disagreeable Introvert man. Thank you!

[@mphelps3000]

16:23 i dont really liked that moment.

[@ethan5.56]

Jocko is one of the most solid people I've ever heard speak. He gives some of the best advice I've ever heard and I'll take his advice and run with it until the grave. Great video as always

[@benzielke7149]

I like the angle here that "being agreeable" can be applied on many degrees at many levels. Use just as much as you need in most cases, more if necessary. I need to follow this and I have known this for a long time but it's SO hard not to tell idiots to go fu## themselves.

[@FINALLYOUTAFTER6]

10:55 “Maneuvered” Damn.

[@shinmatsunami]

When I was taking martial arts, we would talk about not playing to win, as much as we were playing to not lose.

[@Bling92]

thats me being aggressive and calling everyone out lol, 4 shifts left to go yeah babyyyyyy

[@garysarratt1]

Echo got dumbbells to pump for the camera.

[@jongussner6590]

Talking about the philosophy about jordan while holding a knife in your hand.. Very jordan peterson

[@ah64Dcoming4U]

"I'll never tell anyone".. I like like like loled

[@makegeorgeorwellfictionaga9268]

I agree, there has to be certain circumstances when your more aggressive and more agreeable

[@josephh5085]

If you can understand this concept, you will go very far in whatever occupation/career path you choose.

[@enlightenedrogue3871]

Invite him to the podcast - he’s very bright and insightful... My take - being too agreeable minimizes your ability to stand your ground & demonstrate your value.

[@TheFedoraSniper]

Play the game, but don't let the game play you.

[@genericusername8337]

The premise of the question seems warped, to say the least. Jordan advocating for agreeableness, where? Especially in opposition to playing the game. As far as what I've seen of him goes, he has mentioned agreeableness as a personality trait quite a bit, and he has talked about practical scenarios where it comes into play, what people very low or very high on it are like and so on, but he's also quite clearly someone who advocates for making yourself someone who's "good at the game". He talks about it all the time when it comes to competence, our calling as human beings, sexual selection, achieving a state of high self-worth, and so on. So, I think there's a false assumption in the question, that's probably based on a misunderstanding.

[@KrispyKreme50]

Echo, you HAVE to find out what annoys Jocko.

[@springey1997]

People that are up after 5am

[@bryanl.morrison552]

Call him John

[@j0tt0]

Talk about something that reffers to some weakness in human nature

[@dm20422]

Jocko Wisdom = )

[@andagain9826]

"You wouldn't take crap from anybody!!!" Jocko: pointed look. Internal dialogue ' dfuq you think I'm doing rn bud'