When To Fire Someone - Jocko Willink and Leif Babin

[@nunyabeeswax303]

you have to be really careful with this subject, I've seen people overloaded on a job, management blamed him and fired him, after going through 5 or 6 replacements upper management realized the job required at least 3 more people. the dude they fired started his own business and now is a major competitor.

[@forbreze8875]

I think this is why he started by saying after exhausting every option.. then firing is on the table if it still isn’t working. If you’re not mentoring the person in question and understanding the problems at hand, are you really doing a good job at leading or understanding the problem?

[@AbsoluteKelvin]

Totally agree. Just fired one of my employee couple weeks ago. Gave him so many chances, mentored and coached him for hours. Encouraged good behaviors and improvements. He could have been fired more than my fingers can counted. He got drunk on his lunch break, came back barely able to stand knocking everything over in the kitchen endangering himself and others scaring customers. Had him sit and wait till he sober up before letting him drive home. Coached and talked to him more. Thinking he hit rock bottom. Couple days later no show no call shows up to work 1 hour late being the one in charge in opening the store.. SMH every resource has be exhausted. Became a liability and dragged the entire team down. Straight up toxic employee. Misery loves company trying to drag all the other employees down to his level and making chaos in the team. Business is not a charity, once its damaging the business and their "not coach able" its time to fire.

[@Daniel_WR_Hart]

Jesus that's an insane amount of leniency

[@merlepatterson]

"Exhausted all options" is the key phrase here.

[@brandonsullivan9544]

Lol at first I thought the thumbnail said “flirting” I was thinking, “oh Jocko with the romantic advice! That’s new!”

[@ibrahimkayikci2146]

You would't like his romantic advises.

[@JoeCamel.]

@@ibrahimkayikci2146 you never know, you may or may not like it..lol.

[@chucknoob7041]

Several years ago I took on technical lead role for a development program. At the end of the year I received a poor rating. Despite both my direct manager and the department manager both attending weekly meetings for about 8 months I was never informed that I wasn’t meeting expectations. My annual review was brutal. Nobody in the company would touch me. It takes three years for a review to not be available for hiring managers to see. Took me three years to leave those horrible “leaders”. I’m a technical lead in a new department now. Im excelling at basically the same position and have received good annual reviews. Now love my job and am actually....*gasp*... respected. It’s amazing what both good and bad leadership can do to/for you. The company ended up selling the division I used to be in, I’m not at all heartbroken to see that “ leadership” leave.

[@esk8er900]

Agreed. I had a similar but small business version of that situation. Granted I learned a ton about work and responsibility and myself, I was just a kid being held to incredibly high standards but of course wasn’t perfect. Problem was constantly being glasslighted for not being good enough basically all day because of some selected shortfall early in the day. Yet if I was so bad at my job why did he keep me on?? Well because he knew that he wouldn’t find anyone willing to put up with & familiar with his specific company needs. Fast forward I was recruited to a better job bigger company different dynamic and they unanimously said I was like “an abused shelter dog ready to find a home” which is ironically what I felt like. It’s not all roses since there’s a different set of challenges but I’m not miserable nor manipulated, part of a good generous team, earn more money respect and appreciation and am rewarded for what I do. Cherry on top is since I left the old place on good terms I randomly touch base and oooffffff somebody finally regrets their choices. Sweet as pie to me now, even when I flatly pointed out how I let things perfect and this laundry list of important things went to shit.

[@hemanbhojwani3333]

Some real, refreshingly honest perspectives from these Gentlemen here on this very sensitive and challenging topic. Thank you!

[@albewillbuild]

Really loved the parenting story. Maybe; The purest reflection of ones leadership ability is exhibited when leading a child. It requires clarity, patience & situational awareness expressed in ways that are easily understood.

[@Freedom20241]

The first question to ask as a leader before firing someone is: have I done all I could to equip, engage and empower this individual to be successful? This goes back to taking ownership and responsibility. Then there are 5 main reasons why employees aren’t performing: 1. Job knowledge - have they’ve been properly equipped, trained to understand their roll and responsibilities: 2. Aptitude - they just don’t have the brain power to do the job we need them to do: 3 - Character - they don’t possess the attitude or characteristics that will drive the behavior required for the toll. 4 - external influence - there is something going on outside of work. Could be having troubles in relationships at home, spouse, kids, family, substances... 5 - they see no purpose or future in what they are doing. As leaders - we are in the people business and without people we cannot accomplish anything. As leaders it’s our responsibility have those conversations move the people where they can excel. The cost of talent is too expensive. I teach my clients to always hire character over skill.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

Somewhere here is where I usually point out, "Ignorance can be fixed. Stupid is forever." or "The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has it's limits." ;o)

[@kennethlucas7473]

Problem Is: Waaaay too many so-called leaders lead with their emotions rather than critical- thinking. Example: I recently had a job where the director thought bullying was funny. We had two senior rank-and-file co-workers who loved to physically intimidate and browbeat co-workers.....ON THEIR OFF DAYS in front of customers.These two (one black and one white) made the environment toxic city. He REFUSED to fire them because they were his "boys". The turnover rate was off the charts because he chose to sacrifice the team rather than terminate his "boys"!!

[@paulisaaksohn9179]

Great example of tactical angle of attack shift, Jocko!(I am referring to the episode when you wanted to get your daughter to work on her biking skills). Your videos/podcasts are much more interesting and rewarding to listen to than most of those, delivered by mwny "mentors" and "leadership gurus" out there claiming to have absolute knowledge of the subject. I listen to your podcasts every day and it's benefitting me on many levels. I am grateful to you, Jocko, Leif and Echo for your guidance and mentorship.

[@remi9018]

Yea I so needed to hear this ...Leifs. Comments were great ...made me feel better about my choices I've been making last few weeks in my life ...meaning the hard calls and also makes me think how I need to also step up a lot more ,,,,thanks guys for ur wise words...

[@WhoIsAmaze]

My operations manager at UPS only looked out for “his” people and could careless about the next man unless there was a linage that connected them. Some leaders just lack the total ability to identify who to promote let alone fire.

[@ingdalvarez]

Leif pls say: I’m Batman LOL

[@Satanda007]

+

[@randwels]

SWEAR TO ME!!!

[@raimundosilva4382]

Uma garota linda um exemplo do país ela garota ele me conhece desde o primeiro dia que eu abri os vídeos ela garota ali conhece desde o primeiro dia que eu abri o primeiro vídeo dela nas ruas eu confio no Talento dela eu acredito no Talento dela eu tô mostrando sempre talento dela ela é uma garota muito especial ela mulher que tem futuro na vida tem brilho ela tem qualidade tá dando um exemplo para esses políticos corruptos vagabundo e esses que me critica esses que me Condena tá sendo uma vergonha essa garota tá dando um exemplo na sociedade nas ruas nas duas vezes se preocuparam com a garota que nem aquela para pegar ela e colocar no lugar decente para para mostrar as qualidades que ela tem eles não olha para essas pessoas escondem que julga e eu vejo ela como um brilho e todas as nações porque ela tem futuro aquela garota tem todo o futuro que o projeto dela é de Vida

[@raimundosilva4382]

Pergunta para aquela garota quem sou eu Pergunta para ela nas palavras dela quem sou eu se ela fala igual a Lara se ela não tem qualidade se ela não tem visão diferente pergunta para aquela aquela garota se eu faltei com respeito com ela alguma vez na vida da forma que a Lara que fala da minha vida projeto a minha vida da forma que a Lara Me Condena me julga pergunta para aquela garota se eu fiz algum mal para ela eu se eu falei algo para lá vou para ela a não ser gostasse qualidade dela e gosto de ouvir as músicas dela porque ela tem talento qualidade e é um exemplo para o país é isso que eu tô mostrando vendesse criticar e condenado por que que ele não pega as pessoas boas que estão na rua que tem futuro e qualidade e põe eles no lugar decente ele está fazendo destruindo o país Porque eles estão destruindo o país e a Lara tá sendo uma vergonha e os outros todos

[@raimundosilva4382]

Aquela garota que me deu em voz aquela garota me deu em voz qualidade e apoio aquela garota que me deu tudo em voz veja as qualidades dela vê o que ela me dá analise as músicas dela viu o que ela fala de mim se ela tá me dando ela tá me dando em Vós a Lara tá me dando vergonha e a condenação para vida dela

[@kelvinnguyen6048]

"Flanked her with a ice cream" LMAO EC

[@jasondesignmedia7495]

Many companies hire someone then keep changing the job description until the job you were hired for is no longer the job you applied for they also have WAY too many objectives for an employee to realistically complete. Another problem I have with the performance Improvement system is that people are humans, not robots they will have ups and downs which will affect their performance. Lastly, the major problem with the Performance Improvement and fire system is that when companies are facing budget cuts they use this system to fire employees on the cheap, this damages both the employee's reputation to get another job and it will damages the reputation and trust in the employer.

[@sashatagger3858]

100%.

[@fieldyolsen9288]

My son, daughter, and myself all rode bikes without training wheels at 2 years old. My son would stand up on one foot on the seat(hands on handle bars.

[@zachlemar9077]

I just got fired from my job one month into it whilst still in training without any warning or counselling, for making a few trivial mistakes on the job.

[@lelandbarnett5610]

Same. I was at my last position from 3 months. Same kind of deal. It happens.

[@mmc51660]

Same for teachers failing a student, imo.

[@AaronBuley]

EXCELLENT points Jocko. 💪

[@DaviMourao]

Good evening Echo

[@user-wc1em7pc2p]

Echo looking New Jacked City'd

[@josepaulloor6449]

This is a very important question!

[@moctargueye1293]

Where the heck did Echo came from??? LOL 6:30

[@spooky7542]

it seems many leaders want to avoid the confrontation of it. knowing plenty of people who need the axe. let the big machine roll lol. I know of 2 cases 1st hand where the job was saved because they had kids. the guy just wouldn't pull the trigger and they totally deserved it. if you want to test a mans character, give him power.

[@willek1335]

The word Leif is from old norse, meaning heir, or descendant.

[@akirathedon]

🌊 ＳＴＡＮＤ　ＢＹ　ＴＯ　ＴＥＲＭＩＮＡＴＥ 🌊

[@Steve-holm]

Very helpful Thank You Much 😊

[@toplobster1040]

I keep telling my mom that she needs to explain the "why" to me. Me and my husband will explain the "why" to our kids.

[@j-dey1678]

Maybe the same applies in social situations? But maybe not the whole 9 yards, but ive done what was in my power to make sure you understood?

[@chrisdaniel6095]

I think the spirit of much of what was said here is valuable, but it doesn't work like this in "large" small businesses and certainly not in corporate America or public organizations, at least for rank and file employees. You have to document everything and then you have to present the troubled employee with a series of inflection points where they are choosing either to a) Address the deficiencies (this could mean several things) or b) continue down the progressive path that leads to separation with the organization. And all of the documentation and meetings need to follow accepted formats to all but eliminate liability to the organization. And it gets trickier if there are special situations which I won't even go into. Feelings should have nothing to do with it (especially until you no longer feel bad about firing- good managers should usually feel bad in some way). We should be talking about material facts. Respect to the background of these men, but their worlds are quite different than many. Now in a very small owner/operator business in an at-will state, you are only bound by certain laws and your conscience and most of what they say is applicable.

[@clarkeeo2621]

Echo knows he’s next. Lol

[@Qwerty123qazwsdrfv]

Thought Jocko was full of crap on this. I listened because it was time to fire someone. They seemed grateful when I did, just like he said.

[@gullepomp]

explaining what to do and why is a good one."During the Sunrise tell everyone to keep the toilets clean" , my question, "why? what happend that we need to mention this?"Reply I got, "because I just told you to mention it!". now stop bothering me.

[@18ipmg]

As soon as they prove to be incompetent.

[@Salmon_Rush_Die]

So many outfits just hire & fire because they can't figure any of this out. High turn-over is a morale buster for the rest of the people. Folks get real tired of training an endless stream of dummies who are just going to get trashed or quit. It indicates a fundamental malfunction in the business.

[@bencole1630]

Have you ever had a situation where you had an employee who worked hard but still just couldn't cut it?

[@toplobster1040]

"All I want is for you to work on these things so that you can come to band camp with us. At band camp you cannot hide. Sharif will see you, and we will do it over and over again until we get it right and I don't want you to be singled out. I don't want your experience at camp to be ruined because if that."

[@thundergrace]

I could be still working there .he spoke bold faced lies right to my face! He stated I was trouble..and other co-workers didn't want to work with me!!! Noone said anything..it was all his false fabrication!!!! He didn't like me so he fired me and used others to make me look bad!!!

[@mattveinykolichuk3298]

Echo looks JACKED!!!

[@aikishugyo]

Commander's intent.. bingo. I mean, there are tons of companies apparently where the leadership cannot even formulate a mission with enough precision that the employees know what they are aiming at long-term.

[@HarPlayer]

" I GAVE 2 DIRECT ORDERS " 2 A. 7YR OLD ( used the ice cream line baited his daughter 7yr old ) Jacko having flash backs on an Mission Op i wounder how the parent teacher conversation goes or the p.t.a. meetings

[@felixthecat4584]

The idea of Jocko using the knife hand while talking with a 7 year old girl makes me laugh

[@allanbartlett123]

Got fired....Good.

[@Satanda007]

Mr. Leif, if i was in the dark street or in the night forest, and u spoke to me with your voice, i swear that i should bite into the closest tree and start to play a branch, please say I AM BATMAN! Respect and please dont take this seriously, am playing branch already...

[@wouldntyouliketoknow8904]

Strength and weaknesses 3:40

[@BestAudiovisualTricks]

First comment! Awesome Jocko!!!

[@behindthen0thing]

Nobody cares if you commented first

[@blissmastaeasy1]

It’s as if Alex jones and jocko had a baby and called him Leaf Babbin.

[@mandolore_the_glorious7049]

The way I see this situation where I work THE truck unload team are usually short staffed, having only three men on there team. That bieng said, THE store management team is made to take the other employees away from there own tasks and responsibilities to help the truck unload team, that bieng said In return the truck unload team Then expects the other employees from the store to come provide help to them, there fore if the truck unload team does not get help they don't unload the truck correctly, leave the pallets not pulled out, as well as leaving them mixed. And even leaving when the truck with out it bienf fully unloaded On the managers side, from my understanding the managers are not ensuring the truck gets finished and the pallets pulled out. Every one leaves when the store closes. THE night sticking crew in which I am apart of cannot complete out tasks and responsibilities due to the lack of accountability, discipline and integrity of the managers and truck unload team. Having us having to sort out and pull the pallets onto the floor, we as well are short by three people. THE the people who work in the department's in the day blame us for them having to our jobs when we can't get everything put away. So every day where I work is one disastourous cluster fuck of the snow ball effect and nothing seems to be getting done of it

[@yukimura62]

Richard Grossguth walmart?

[@duckdrop9158]

After 25 years in the military, you miss having basic training, an A type school, or your A.I.T. school etc etc to run off the tards. Where as here in the civilian world i have college...or junior college. Big Difference.

[@belowme8893]

9:23 - The average civilian

[@DRF1001]

Firing people is never easy. Even when they are cancer to the team. The multiple attempts to bring them around and explain why X/Y may result in termination makes you feel responsible, but that's why the owner selected you as boss. I never liked it but if it's handled properly no one will hold it against you.....if they do just fire them (jk)

[@John-tx5or]

Well. Said. I get it. Corp /.Non Mil Should Be Different... Should Help Someone if U Fire Them. They Don't Even Give A Reason so How R U Spose to Not Do THat Again? & Some Ppl Wanna Do GIT UR DONE, Not Whatever THey Wanna Do. They Wanna Work! Lol. Agreed about APTITUDE. Be GOOD & Good @ IT!

[@John-tx5or]

Streamline Daily Tasks so U Can Train So U Can WIN from W/IN. 🔥.

[@jhgosnell]

Commander's intent.....

[@sjorsvanrijswijk358]

tortured genius, does that translate to: lack of self reflection?

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

Almost 100% ego. If I hire you for a job, I need your focus on that job... and most jobs have no room for ego to get in the way. You shouldn't be strutting around as the tortured genius Character when real lives can be lost and real people injured. ;o)

[@Matt-vv1iv]

hey do you think- GOOD EVENING ECHO.

[@SuspiriaX]

waiting for him to start chewing on the mic

[@PDizzleFoRizzle]

Am I alone in thinking that Leif should have voiced Batman instead of Christian Bale?

[@RKO1988]

what do you do if you're a tortured genius?

[@willek1335]

RKO1988 If you identify the corrupt problem than half the job is done. Next step is to stop defending yourself like a coward. Stand up. Let the agonising fire of criticism purify your soul. Accept the feedback. Let it hit you like a wave, then whatever remains of that husk, the essence of your tortured self, however small a percentage, you know will be true and tested.

[@ajcook7777]

Hey Jocko and Leif (& E.C.), I know you guys say that you shouldn't allow your emotions to dictate your decision making. Which I do agree with since alot of poor decisions are made when emotion is involved. However, do you think that it may be better word it as do not make decisions in the heat of the moment? I say this because we are human and removing all emotion is unnatural and unlikely. To back my point up I would like to use this video actually, when Leif says, "Don't fire someone until you don't feel bad about it (i.e. you don't feel bad about signing their termination papers/helping them clean out their locker). Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated! Ps - can you show Jocko and Leif or Jocko and Echo Charles rolling? A sweet addition to the show would be a clip of Jocko rolling with his guests (obviously if they knew Jiu Jitsu as well) at the end of the video!! Thx for continuously making great and steady content! Also, it was great to see Jody Mitic on your show multiple times since I'm Canadian too and we rarely get recognized as much as our neighbs/FAM to the South. I think he really looks up to you and looks for your direction quite a bit! Audios fellas, much respect from your Neighbs up North!!!

[@jbabs10]

Sir, what happened to your finger? Go see an occupational therapist for a better splint! Thanks for awesome advice again!

[@pkuudsk9927]

Shit flow's down , Poor management is normally where it starts from.

[@Konstantinos143]

"that is not part of my contract buddy, I am sorry" "You want us to do more and assume more responsibility, pay up more boss" These are the things that people think all the time around, especially round holidays and they ache to get out of work and go about their own way. This happens all the time, every day every year in at least 3 of my employers. I think also that many people are nihilistic and without a better purpose for themselves outside work and family, and adding the current work regulations, I just don't see any other future than economic collapse. We have institutionalized laziness and low work ethic as standards here in Europe. As Americans I think you guys have better control over your life and economic situation. The national debts western countries have are a basic driver of the conditions which will bring the next economic crisis, but the INDULENCE, LAZINESS AND ENTITLEMENT and low quality work ethic of people, who are actively employed today, will be the final blow to the economic downturn of the west as a whole Just some thoughts. Very good points in your discussion otherwise. I appreciate the direct and concise nature of your arguments, Leif and Jocko

[@shortclipszw998]

Is it only me or there something weird about these guys' voices

[@donalejo1889]

I ONCE FIRED MY PERSONAL TRAINERED AFTER A LONG RUN WE WERE STRETCHING OUT AFTERWARDS I NOTICED.... HE HAD SKINNY KNEES