Joe & Francis on why the UFC win bonus is WRONG

Former UFC heavyweight champion Francis Ngannou join the Joe Rogan Experience podcast and discusses everything MMA, especially the pay system in the UFC compared to boxing.
From JRE MMA Show Ep. 160

[@user-ox1ul7bf4c]

"Joe Rogan was never my friend " Dana White

[@Fluffy._.Doggo.123]

When did he say this? I thought they were buddies and stuff

[@isaackelly1294]

@@Fluffy._.Doggo.123 he was joking about how Dana white would respond to the prospect of paying his fighters more money lol

[@murodjon256]

​@@Fluffy._.Doggo.123he never said it, and yes they are buddies, it came from a joke and used for so many people, This quote works like a math formula X = A person who says something Dana would not like "X was never my friend" - Dana White

[@FalseProphetFallacy]

@@murodjon256”Lionel Rivera was never my friend 😤”

[@blackgross6372]

​@@Fluffy._.Doggo.123you're slow

[@reapersashpt8144]

Its just a way to cut 25% of expenses

[@bri_____]

Finish bonuses would make more sense

[@bigperk345]

Except any bonus will encourage that behavior more, in the case of finishes you might have people arguing that it makes an already deadly sport that much more dangerous.

[@gypsy9280]

@@bigperk345 but how would it get any more dangerous once you’re knocked out you’re knocked out it’s not boxing where you get a 10 count

[@gypsy9280]

@@bigperk345 finishes also include submission so it could make grappling guys grapple more

[@bigperk345]

@@gypsy9280 True the ten count rule does definitely promote way more cte. But Finish Bonuses is just kinda vague to me so I guess I could picture fighters going for that arm break or going for that crazy strike and getting hurt just that more often. Really I just think Finish Bonus would have kind of a bad public image problem to overcome. Not saying I disagree with it totally.

[@bigperk345]

@@gypsy9280 That's a good point I guess how they define a finish would be the most important part of the policy.

[@Smoshylife]

Finish bonuses is a game changer

[@michaelngosa6423]

I'm with them on this one. Just pay the fighter what was agreed,whether they win or lose

[@someguy701]

Then you will have so many jobbers in the UFC what are you talking about? It’ll be like boxing records

[@DvornyashkaDiaries]

It's clear with boxing that boxers aren't fighting their best a lot of the time.

[@guy_with_a_beard__glass6949]

Joe is the real one on this unlike Ariel Ratwani

[@ScarletDream21]

👃

[@GDL88]

Ariel helwani is the epitome of that Juden face i always see on twitter. If you know you know.

[@jesusbaena8435]

Joe and Ariel are just to sides of the same coins. Both only care about there pockets and both switch up depending who’s in front of them

[@guy_with_a_beard__glass6949]

@@jesusbaena8435 Ariel is a 🐀 and it's obvious coz he's a ----- you name it

[@guy_with_a_beard__glass6949]

@@jesusbaena8435 Ariel is a 🍹ish 🐀

[@Anthony-pq7su]

They do this to prevent fighters taking dives and supposed to give them more motivation to win the fights via stoppages, but to give fighters half their purse is wrong especially if they're on their first contracts

[@philmastick2073]

But if they got rid of win bonuses and paid both the full amount that be less money for those truly in need. Think of poor Dana

[@stormyprawn]

The base pay should be much better and then you can potentially add on smaller bonuses (for wins, finishes, good performances, good sales figures).

[@Ar1AnX1x]

honestly not saying that Francis is that smart or anything but he's definitely more articulate than most fighters despite his english not being that great

[@brycehawes38]

God dammit kkf v albazi pissed me off so much. I have no idea what fight the judges were watching

[@Ben-uz2fp]

Dana’s tighter than rambos headband that’s why

[@mikegold3130]

One thing I’d be curious about is people abusing that guaranteed purse. Let’s take guys like Arlovski or Jim Miller who aren’t top 5 or title contenders anymore. They could have 50/50 records fighting unknown contenders and because they signed a contract for guaranteed pay they’d be getting so much money while fighting on fight night cards. Obviously legends deserve it all but from a businesses perspective I can see why show/win is still a thing.

[@DariusClarkWallace]

That's not how that works. The top guys only fight on PPV so the organizations can get the money to pay them. Jim Miller fights on fight night cards because he isn't paid that much relatively speaking. Fans would much rather watch Gaethje get knocked out than watch Belal or Aljo win a decision so having win bonus is silly. Just pay a flat rate to the fighter based on his draw.

[@mikegold3130]

@@DariusClarkWallace that is how it works though. Dana has even said guys like Overeem, Arlovski, Henderson, ect. All had big paydays without fighting for titles because they had longevity in the sport which Dana himself said longevity will guarantee more money regardless of having long win streaks or title fights. You can be an old legend fighting unranked cans on fight nights and still make 250-500k per fight. Now imagine if they just gave them 500k regardless of wins and losses, that means an old legend is making more money than the fight night cards are worth when they fight unranked guys. If they gave guaranteed purses I bet they’d cut guys a lot sooner and not drag on legends careers as long because why pay more for guys that aren’t PPV draws or title contenders.

[@DariusClarkWallace]

@mikegold3130 the longevity portion is completely irrelevant to guaranteed purses. Obviously in ANY career you'll make more money the longer you work there lol that's common sense. And seeing how guaranteed purses have been around a hundred years before UFC was even in existence I'm sure they could figure the numbers out lol. Seeing as how Dana has reportedly played 75k/hand blackjack I'm sure he could afford to give guys guaranteed money lol. It's in his best interest for fans like you to justify the greed so he can keep pocketing the cash

[@mikegold3130]

@@DariusClarkWallace that’s the issue though. Do you really expect the UFC to instead of giving guys 50/50 to just give them 100k flat? If they did guaranteed purses they’d not only have to dish out way more money, but it would become more difficult for guys to reach that 250k, 500k, 1million, ect. Mark if they started doing guaranteed purses. Instead of lower level guys making 25/25 they’d probably just get a flat rate of 30k. That’s common sense. Obviously the UFC won’t change its model when they don’t need to. lol lol lol lol

[@haseebaminmalik]

that's why boxing as a sport is dying,most boxers sell out and then they don't give a shit about winning or losing,in the ufc it's competitive,it does seem a bit unethical but it's completely sensible that they do that,however they do ,generally ,pay their fighters a lot less than they should

[@Drakkonemus]

Plenty of dudes have coasted and plenty got in there not to win but pick up a check. Fight bonus breeds incentive. What next we take away PPV bonuses for fighters?

[@619ck154]

Fighters have negotiated where they didn’t have a win bonus so it’s not as if that’s something the UFC wouldn’t do. Also whilst win bonus can mean doubling there paycheck, it’s not as if if you made them illegal Dana would just pay people that on top of their show money. Also any self respecting fighter if they get offered let’s say 35 to show or 25 to show and 25 to win they’d taken the latter

[@imcgonigle2006]

The winner obviously should get more money like wtf 😂

[@davidbhart1867]

That's not how it works in all other combat sports.

[@dmt6602]

Bad decisions are paid decisions. There’s a narrative and desired outcome for every ufc season. The judges are aware of what scores are needed and refs know to stop the fight early or shift the fight as needed.

[@Wilson-md4bv]

the bonk💀

[@DameEsasTortasBot]

"For the most part you get there by winning"..... goodnight

[@r1pperduck]

There should be multiple bonuses for 2 reasons. Incentive is one; Thats K.O. bonus, finish bonus, fight of the night, K.O./sub of the night, and any more yall can think of. A great show should be rewarded on top of a base salary that can support the lifestyle. The other reason, is when a casual like me sees "fight of the night" or any kind of bonus, it puts those fighters on my radar when i otherwise wouldnt care to watch them.

[@michaelsteiner6710]

Yeah for Dana to think he's got to give a bonus for someone to fight harder. I agree with Joe you're going out there and trying your hardest to win. To up your station and to try to be the best. If someone does an awesome job give him extra money 🤑 but no one should have their pay cut, or get less money if the fight doesn't go the way Dana wanted it

[@robertb6926]

There’s win bonusses in all kinds of sports. 🏀 🏈 ⚽️ 🎾

[@IFAMILYIH]

JOE SAYS THIS LIKE HE LEGIT CAN’T TALK TO DANA ABOUT IT!! DANA WANTS TO PAY THE FIGHTERS WAY LESS

[@joshmorgan5933]

Joe has said many times that he wants to make a lot of changes and has talked to people in the UFC about his ideas, but the UFC doesn’t listen to him. I’m sure Joe has talked to Dana about it, but that doesn’t mean Dana is going to listen and change the contracts because the current contract structure is very advantageous for the UFC.

[@zaccam2833]

That’s why you can’t let it go to decision. It ensures that the fighters are gonna give it 100% and not coast to an easy point fight. Which is why mma is much more entertaining than boxing.

[@neckking3]

The thing is rigging a fight would be easier then

[@BraydenKing-nz2gz]

I mean Dana running ufc into the ground in all sorts of ways he ain’t gonna care what ppl think

[@mathdavies9546]

It's to motivate them to fight their best isn't it ? Both fighters should have equal pay but the winner gets a little bonus

[@fpsnuka2421]

Brother we just seen Leon coast in a defense fight 🤦‍♂️

[@cristianmoreta5666]

Leon coasting 😂

[@KvltKvnt]

Yeah you gotta talk to your boy Dana about that

[@REMY_L3beau]

It’s awesome that Joe will have a guy like ngannou back on while Rogan still works with Dana and ufc. He cares so much about fighting in general and the actual fighters it’s nice to see

[@sarmadhabibkhan3036]

Wait a fucking minute. UFC fighters don't get paid their agreed amount for the fight if they lose?

[@CalumJames-b5u]

No win bonuses are great

[@adequatequality]

Rogan will call out all the things wrong in the UFC on the podcast but refuses to setup a meeting with Dana to do something about it and call him out on this stuff. He has as much say as anyone else considering his tenure and importance to the organization

[@NinjaStroll]

Man we're so desensitized to hearing people earning 10mil a fight but us average people will never earn that much in our lifetime

[@notalazyman]

And u don't have to pay a gym, coaches and medical bills. Not to mention the difficulty of make weight and get brutally beaten every fight

[@lutosibotoboto1088]

sports is also a very short career.

[@FrogGuy-tt1wq]

the issue isn’t for the guys making 10 mil a fight it’s the guys who are out there on the prelims for ten and ten

[@flitsplik5750]

damn that black dude is smarter than i assumed

[@imnotmichealdesante8277]

Song?

[@markmay4066]

Nah, win bonuses are a good thing imo. You should strive for success, and the incentives involved in the sport should reflect that drive. Boxing is fucked up because there is no financial incentive to not be a journeyman, they have no drive to win because they are professional losers who's bread is buttered by being the loser. You add win bonuses and the economics of being a journeyman are a lot less, and it would let you know that you have a legitimate match up rather than a fight designed to pad someone's record.

[@Ar1140]

i agree but the other side is that they should just be paid more overall and not have to rely on the bonuses. but rohan’s point here changes he starts talking about win bonuses and then switches to the way the contract is half to show half to win

[@FreemanWelterweight]

That's what they mean by win bonus, like a 12/12 contract is 12k to show and 12k to win, they're referring to the latter as win bonus. Francis is saying that he's cool with bonuses for finishes (like KOs, submissions, etc), but doesn't like to have a show/win contract

[@Ar1140]

@@FreemanWelterweight yea you right i was gonna say that the 50/50 is kinda a win bonus which is stupid especially with rogans point of the decision

[@Ytube-mods-r-nazis]

​​@@FreemanWelterweightcant a boxer just negotiate the contract parameters he wants? UFC/MMA doesn't give much leeway on that, I think.

[@Mgm23x]

No mma fighter ever earned 5 million from a fight, this rogan guy is delusional

[@zdanerf7201]

ZOEE!!!!

[@matty123]

Please stop with the sound effects. They're unnecessary and annoying

[@user-rh4wd3bh4p]

You don't understand why the sport you promote is just as crooked as boxing is if not more sometimes big surprise

[@coolyoutubename16]

Not happy with your paycheck? Get a different job then. multimillionaires crying about unfair pay. It's unbelievable!

[@westy_8222]

Boo hoo 5 million

[@AJD12345]

thanks to dana scamming his fighters