John Kadlecik: I never studied Jerry Garcia

Fair warning. This one goes pretty deep into the Grateful Dead - all through the lens of Dark Star Orchestra co-founder John Kadlecik.
From moving on to Furthur in 2009 and then NOT moving on to Fare Thee Well or Dead & Company, John gives personal reflections on his various connections and non-connections to Phil Lesh and Bob Weir throughout the later chapters of Grateful Dead history in a post-Jerry world.
Here is the full audio from the show after the interview: • John Kadlecik Solo Liv...
* Apparently This Matters is an interview series by Jarrett Bellini. The concept it simple: I have a case filled with postcards. On the back of each postcard, I write different topics. We pick these cards at random. And then we talk.
** My Production Gear:
www.jarrettbell...

[@timhernandez9413]

The Dead catalog has become like the great jazz standards. The songs lend themselves to infinite interpretations from anyone who gets the call and inspiration. The music never stops!

[@bigmike5785]

Lord, he even talks like Jerry.

[@DavePerryCinematographerLLC]

UGH!!! Not only did he study Jerry obsessively, he studied Jerry's gear. He virtually copied his rig. For him to say "I never studied Jerry" is just utterly ridiculous.

[@stevecakouros1482]

Totally Bro! The hubris of the counterfeiters is [sometimes] unreeling.

[@fUP420babe]

i would say you are right about the gear, but i could believe him about jerry's soloing style, he doesnt get anywhere near jerry's melodicism, and his note choices really dont speak to jerry, i saw him with furthur many times and i can definitely hear trey in his playing more than jerry, to me he was the weakest player in furthur. id rather see kimock any day or jimmy herring for that matter, but he is ok.

[@riceflatpicking4954]

Dave Perry I agree I have thousands of hours of time in listening to shows from every decade and I have seen him live enough to know that not only did he study Jerry's solos he also played the same fills behind the vocals which I always thought was amazing. He would look better here being honest then trying to act profound with his zen verbiage/bullshit combination.

[@777sicilia]

Rice Flatpicking He is weak and I agree with both of u 100%...I just saw this and listening to him made me want to puke. He just spews garbage

[@bogthing1]

Well, at least nobody mentioned anything like "Bohemian Grove" or anything...

[@done1675]

I love John, but I call shenanigans here. You don't play like that without studying Garcia. And he was BRILLIANT at it, by the way.

[@creativerocks9151]

Geeze John. The man literally made you who you are and gave you fame and fortune and all you could do was distance yourself in this interview. I was there when you really stood up and started to feel for him. Hello goodbye Colorado aye. Whatever.

[@tylerthompson1842]

What are you talking about?

[@douglynch8954]

I think it is strange that although he claims to not have really studied Jerry Garcia, he played in bands that played almost nothing but Jerry's music for a couple of decades. Seems kinda disingenuous. I mean, wouldn't Jerry's playing style be back in there in your subconscious too? Oh well, who cares. He did a pretty good job with Further, and played some nice stuff. I will give him credit. That said, he might have well spent a couple of hours actually listening to Jerry, because there's a lot to learn.

[@CubensisRecords]

Guy in Grateful Dead Tribute Band NEVER studied Jerry Garcia.... FFS SHUT UP

[@terrymoody5475]

Well, this thread is certainly full of joy. lol FM....no static at all.

[@mah38900]

I sense a lot of resentment from him. At the beginning he really tries to set himself apart from the music of the dead. But when asked directly about the fare there well thing and D&C he seems to tread carefully hut be short on words.

[@bellbutt1967]

He just meant that he didn't study it in a scholarly way. John is a super intuitive musician and has mastered many styles. Of course, he listened to tons of shows and figured out Jerry's style and mojo, but he didn't have to learn solos note-for-note or anything.

[@SuperJayfive]

As a Deadhead who plays guitar, (as I suspect everyone here is also,) if you play their music all your life.. Playing 'like Jerry' is something you can't escape. Playing 'like Bob' is very much part of the trip too! It doesn't have to be identical. That said... Oh yeah, dude studied Jerry a lot. And that's ok.

[@yetivanmarshall1473]

I've been a guitarist going on 50 years. Page and Van Halen were my idols. However, I never really learned to play well until I closely studied Jerry.

[@IggyM]

He never studied Jerry...he just made a career literally imitating his voice, his songs, his tone. John K is delusional.

[@theDiReW0lf]

IggyM To the point he's starting to look like him too lol. He's great at what he does but yeah, give me a break.

[@kevinwingler3370]

never studied, but was influenced

[@Bluelightcheaphotel]

"Ummmmm... I'm glad they're still playing together again...". Haha

[@nealmccarthy4701]

Saw close to 200 shows with jerry. And since further is the only thing that felt like the dead. Love the Phil bands. Love em. But further had that feel. You know what I mean

[@JoshDone]

Exactly. Furthur was the only lineup that made me get back on the bus after my last GD show in 1992. I got back on from 2010 through 2012 and suddenly they were gone again.

[@matthewcollins5344]

Neal mccarthy get on Dead and co tour and youll chamge that mind;,) John has brought much needed fresh life to the boys and that's exactly what they wanted. They did not want somebody who has been playing the dead the whole freaking lies because they did not want to rehash the past. Bound to cover just a little more ground and they have. Happy the boys can make their own decisions without trolls wink wink. Really though there's a reason this is been the best selling tours since Jerry died and sorry yall dont get it.

[@kevinwingler3370]

i think the other ones were the best non-jerry band

[@novakaya]

@@kevinwingler3370 which ones? There were several remakes of that band

[@childrenoftheabzu]

@@novakaya THE OTHER ONES. I agree with this comment

[@bobbyluv68]

He’s risking his life every day for the fans…

[@theatonementsight]

Great interveiw and love the humility that seems to exude from John and his intense love for the music and the craft.

[@veek.6463]

Geeze John get bent already. Everything you have done is because of him. So rude! Remind me to not see jk band or wingmen again after this nonsensez

[@englitguy7076]

I enjoyed John K's contributions immensely and was lucky enough to be in pit for many shows during his run. He clearly played with soul and joy and THAT matters MUCH...

[@matthewcollins5344]

eng litguy finally a comment not bashing the boys choices for who plays Jerrys spot.

[@gratefulguitarist]

he obviously never studied Jerry's playing...ughhh

[@fbskier20]

lol BULL SHIT

[@mcdaniels6188]

he learned the songs, but he didn't study Jerry note for note, passage for passage, sequence for sequence, etc., etc. He sounds like Jerry without trying to completely emulate him.

[@RobertWeir]

wait .. jerry who? .. oh sorry i'm not familiar.. lol right bro

[@dividedskyplease]

Is he suggesting he just absorbed Jerry's sound? I'd love to know how he defines 'study'.

[@stevemiller9837]

Seen John and Melvin Jhb at dayz between in the Caverns. Amazing 👏 thanks for a great time John

[@timbrown4737]

I do not believe him for one minute .........................lol

[@scott83074]

I hope I don't sound snobby or rude because I definitely do not intend that at allll. As a guitar player and a Grateful Dead fan I never understood spending a majority of your time trying to dupicte whats already been done. To me music is about expression,relief,creating,etc. If I just sit around and do that how am I accomplishing that...It's alreay been done. Everyone knows a few covers but honestly Ive been playing 25 years and only know maybe 10. Like I said though it is definitely mostly about fun..so if the people dig it its good. Have fun everyone

[@novakaya]

If Jerry was anything he was an artist deeply committed to exploring novelty and forging on to break ground in new dimensions. I agree with your statements as a musician myself and even though I grew up heart mind and soul with Jerry, I mourned what was lost and I’ve continued on to keep discovering the other incredible music out there. I can’t do the dead impersonator thing at all

[@Simonfrios]

Sure, but keep in mind how many covers Jerry played, probably more than originals over the years. These things made Jerry the musician he is--even copying others note for note--mastering their styles and later integrating them. The mistake is to study Jerry alone. If anything we should model his studies of a huge array of music, definitely including his own.

[@Shivaho]

He's a Natural! Born to play Dead Music!

[@PC160]

Man speak with forked tongue.

[@kevinwingler3370]

i wish he never left dark star orchestra

[@Kimock7Autism]

I sorta agree - saw him with DSO over 25 times - so many great memories

[@frontbum420]

who took his place?

[@harperrex]

Jeff Mattson, of the Zen Tricksters. He's doing really well with DSO!

[@ryanokeefe3167]

If he doesn't regret it, he should, because those older shows, notably some of the acoustic ones, were pure magic...Mattson at times makes me feel that Jerry presence, even more so than John, but John's muscianship always took it to some unseen level, that I don't think Jerry even reached but on occasion...either way DSO is way Deader than all those other living dead bands (even Phil & Fam)

[@frontbum420]

Mind pointing me to those acoustic shows and maybe some of your fav/most popular electric sets as I have never heard of these guys(Dso)??

[@tylerthompson1842]

I’ve been a working guitarist for 20 years. In HS and college I used to transcribe a lot of Garcia’s stuff. Although John has the tone of late 80s-90s Jerry I can hear they he never put in that work of learning his lines. Jeff Mattson who took over for him in DSO definitely has. He’s the closest I’ve heard to Jerry when he was on.

[@nannesantosepstein5523]

If you’ve e never seen him live than the commentary is bogus. For those who have experimented him in the flesh, it’s a different story.

[@markkindermannart4028]

Saw him live in Hawaii last year and he was incredible

[@michaelmackus8994]

Maybe he never "studied" Jerry- but he himself is a study in Jerry Garcia.

[@raygunner2437]

This one still cracks me up 7 years later. Dude you make your entire living today in 24 playing Jerry🤯 Too funny..

[@MrWallybones]

My second time watching this interview and just want to say that I am so impressed with JK - His playing and his vibe! ✌

[@blakewhittington4336]

He came to my town in Kankakee, Il in 1995 in a Dead tribute band called Hairball Willie and they didn't try to copy it note for note at least at that point.

[@blakewhittington4336]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fJrYf6uVp8mNack

[@childrenoftheabzu]

YEAH RIGHT. You diddnt just play dead songs, you copied their shows exactly.

[@edwardjohnson9841]

Never cared much for him...I thought Trey had that spirit and 'brightness' and was the closest to capturing the essence. Funny story: I know guys that went to High School with Bob Weir's wife, so they would get backstage...well one time my buddy didn't have his laminate to get back thru the door....he calls out to John to verify him and he wouldn't do it! When dude got back in he told "Klodish" he was nothing but a Jerry wannabe

[@jkaznosky]

There's no bullshit about what he's saying at all. I think he's saying he studied the songs. That's it.

[@Ken-pc9lt]

Tray sucks playing Dead music, should have been nowhere near the final shows, John K. would have been much better, but so would a hundred others

[@ReedRosson1987]

I have hung out with John K, he is a really cool and down to earth.

[@someotherdude]

Very much like Garcia then, from what I've heard.

[@Shivaho]

I got to hang out once & it felt like he had just gotten the call to join Furthur & was weighing his options & decision whether to stay or go join his dream band...

[@childrenoftheabzu]

Musicians who clone themselves off others bore me to no end.

[@MDsteeler1]

France is an awesome song. How is it a dumpster fire?

[@joshuathomas329]

is this in atlanta? kinda looks like the red light cafe

[@JarrettBellini]

Indeed it is.

[@joshuathomas329]

that was a good night. thanks for posting

[@kevinchristie5478]

love john

[@Unabonger420]

this guy is amazing but so pompous, yeah you didn't study Jerry...sure He got canned because he's a diva.

[@MrAVTN]

Closest feel of Jerry since well Jerry!

[@thentheguitarstarts]

100%

[@RobertWeir]

@@thentheguitarstarts watch early zen tricksters jeff mattson.. see if you still think so

[@brianweir3005]

I just love it when people denegrate J.K.,Warren,Trey and J.M. Yet none of you critics were ever asked to play. Just shut up and dance.

[@jam60jam1960]

I never was into any kind of tribute bands If these guys are so good Why not make your own music that is a hit Playing Dead once in awhile as a treat Otherwise You are riding on the coattails of another band These people are all talented why not make your own Sorry do not attack me I have seen the Dead 3 times with Jerry I would not go see any cover or tribute band

[@richardklein3344]

Really??? I guess you aren't very familiar with the canon of music the Grateful Dead played and recorded. Just so you know, it included a plethora of traditionals, originals, but also a TON of covers. In fact, Bob Dylan once said, in so many words, that Jerry was one of the great interpreters of his music. Put that in your pipe and smoke it ;)

[@michaelkonopka]

JK❤️

[@gregricker7225]

I would like to know why Bob got rid of him… Anyone have ideas?

[@tylerthompson1842]

Cause he didn’t study Jerry

[@PatrickS503]

John K literally out here risking his life to give this interview

[@tylerthompson1842]

Huh?

[@Kentokkil]

Kadlecik is one of those people I would never talk to.

[@kevinwingler3370]

he feels the same way about you too

[@Jl-en1cd]

@@kevinwingler3370 what a lame an unoriginal comment

[@someotherdude]

@@Jl-en1cd it was the perfect comment and it made me laugh

[@stillaliveandwell5291]

Very respectful. Not that anybody hasn't been, but he had his chance to say and didn't come close to going there....... would have had more interest in that Chicago mobfest if it had been him on guitar.

[@dtchinacat3973]

I love France and Money Money! Both are Amusing Fun Songs and technically produced very well!

[@RamenNoodlez258]

1:48. Laughed exactly like Jerry. Bizarre

[@FiveFigsDigital]

I have Pit photos of Further. Very nice interview.

[@ryanokeefe3167]

John's awesome, but it should have been Kimock or Hidalgo in the Jerry spot if not himself...sure Trey took the heat, but that's what leads to shit like Dead & Co...sad if you ask me...so please don't.

[@spunn_co]

thats a dam lie.. he said 8 or 10 years of training

[@jizzjenkins6268]

I'm pretty sure he meant as in He admires jerry's particular style and not study him as a project

[@crawlinjohn]

John K & Jeff C = Golden Gate Wingmen

[@bob733333]

His favorite song is Way to go Home. Go Vince!

[@chinariderband]

Day Job is a fun song! Always will be :)

[@someotherdude]

3:20 Everything that is wrong with John Mayer, summed up in a moment. Paying to hear Mayer's ego is just ridiculous and stupid. I'm glad Kadlecik sees this, and I find it very distressing that more people don't see it. This is also sort of what was wrong with Phish, they would always hop on an idea, start it, then jump to another idea, and never follow that one either, and listening to it, all you're somehow supposed to like 100 unfinished thoughts with no resolution, ever. If Phish could have ever saved the excess ideas and did each one of them in a SEPARATE song, that would have been great. Instead, the people with the most creativity in the history of mankind let their lack of restraint ruin it all.

[@kevinborchers3522]

John is just bitter. Mayer is the best thing to happen to the scene in the past 20 years

[@yetivanmarshall1473]

I was of those old guys who went to his first Phish show 2 years ago at the age of 57. I'm glad I did, the crowd fun factor was worth it alone.

[@mutoneon]

@Some Other Dude You truly sound like someone who gave Phish a chance once in 1993 and then never bothered listening again.

[@someotherdude]

@@mutoneon Phish music fails to resolve- ever. They cram 100 good ideas/directions into every song, then they don't resolve any of those ideas. It's absurd torture- and many people say what I'm saying. Great talent, wasted.

[@childrenoftheabzu]

Phish was good when they were a prog band who put 100 ideas into a song. Now its boring. The dead were really only good for like 15 years and without the emotions of hunters words wouldnt have me listening today. But yeah, Phish should go back to being a prog band

[@ianandkimmaness4465]

To remove ego is to find “the song” I love John.

[@spunn_co]

john lame

[@johnchurch5101]

Still waiting....

[@lilysitero6514]

red light cafe!

[@dankauffmanmusic]

Friend of the Devil has more than 4 chords... maybe thats the problem?

[@scottbegonias313]

Pretty much four chords dude unless you're counting the am to an a

[@thentheguitarstarts]

@@scottbegonias313correct

[@sg1770]

BS.

[@siscoismyhomey]

I don't know why anyone is trashing John, he's an incredible player and awesome guy.

[@ewilligars2601]

Awesome interview

[@JohnnyLen]

Didnt expect this to be a good interview especially me not knowing who he is b4hand

[@peterguitarhowitt268]

☮︎

[@mcdaniels6188]

Thank you to whatever force caused Furthur to become a band. I was always happy to see John K. delivering the music in what you couldn't not notice the similarities between him and Jerry, and he did so tastefully and respectfully. Everyone in that band was top notch. I've even read someone well versed in this music suggest Jeff Chimenti was the best keyboard player to ever play this music. For sure Joe Russo is the third best drummer to ever play this music.

[@taosempre5288]

With all due respect to Billy and Mickey, I think Russo's the best. Chimenti is probably the best keyboard player to play with 'em

[@mcdaniels6188]

The BEST was Billy in '72/73/74.

[@hymedude7378]

Lol I grew up on Brent ...sry not sry

[@bigbossman7991]

Trussssst me, I'd rather be seeing Furthur than Dead & Co ANY DAY OF THE FREAKIN WEEK!!!! No, John K shouldn't have been asked for FTW shows, BUT, he is a freakin BADASS!!!!!!! I LOATHE the ones that talk trash about him. Not only him, but Rob Eaton too. Those dudes are just downright AWESOME!!!!!

[@JoshDone]

No, John K. Would have TOTALLY made the FTW shows a thousand times better than the shite that they were.

[@matthewcollins5344]

Jason Pope but Dead and Co. has gelled and is bringing more heat and covering more ground since any incarnation following Jerrys passing. Not saying your opinion is wrong just the facts say the energy on dead and co beats all the Furthur ever did. I miss furthur myself but damn dead and co tour was phun;,,)

[@ryanokeefe3167]

Rob Eaton is the man...his fast and bulbous jokes make me sicker than I already am!!

[@andyfulour6461]

he is good at what he does, emulates jerry .He shouldnt be a shamed and lie about "studying jerry" dancing hippies should him the way.lol

[@FloridaDave_]

@daniel butler Just listen to any of the Furthur shows, they rocked! Yes I'm grateful (ha!) that the boys are still together but there is no comparison between Dead and Co. and Furthur plus Bobby is slowing everything down

[@kyleciarrocchi]

mayer is far better lol, so is trey, well trey is the best imo

[@someotherdude]

I saw Ratdog, Further and Phil Lesh and friends (and a few actual dead shows in the 1980's). Ratdog was just a giant fail. The music was literally unlistenable. Phil Lesh & Friends was by far the best. After Jerry's passing, I wanted to like whatever Weir was involved in but I find it impossible. Lesh's band, at Gathering of the Vibes 2013, came extremely close to the magic of a real dead show- it left me stunned and amazed. Lots and lots of energy. Weir has unfortunately long since descended into grouchy mediocraty. PS: Mayer ruins everything he plays in, because he has no restraint, he just shows off nonstop, right from the start of every song.

[@novakaya]

@john doe I interpreted what he said as just Trey in general. The Dead isn’t Treys life work even though he obviously has a profound profound reverence for them. That’s what’s beautiful and immortal about him…..he’s created his own universe that will live on through its influence on countless artists.

[@capnjimmy805]

I saw John once with the DSO & as soon as he ripped into some of Jerry’s magical Style/Solos, I swear the first thing I thought to myself was: “ Now here is a man who has deeply studied Garcia & really has it down ! “ What he’s saying here just doesn’t make sense to me. Outstanding player, though.

[@mikemagyar3222]

Wow, surprised at all the vitriol for this guy. I listened to the whole interview and he literally acknowledges his debt to the Grateful Dead and Jerry. I don’t know which interview the commenters are watching. Just because he says he didn’t “study” Jerry. So what. Is the Garcia Estate gonna sue him for back taxes?

[@andrewmtreat]

There is a reason Bobby dropped this guy....Mayer for life

[@EndoftheTownProductions]

Make your name off of Jerry, then deny the influence.

[@billphipps453]

I thought John was great. he was great in DSO too. rock on...

[@ericjones8176]

He is an obvious liar!

[@someotherdude]

Jerry who?! Yeah right dude, LOL. As a GD lifer, there are 2 additional things I can't stand in the whole scene: the rudderless playing of Phish, and the contemptibility of John Mayer. BTW, Kadlecik's voice in this interview is strikingly similar to JG's.

[@andrewsbarra333]

Get over yourself, man. Jerry’s gone, and nothings gonna bring him back. Nothing wrong with guys like Mayer or Trey wanting and continuing to bring the music to the people. Sure it’s not the same, but who cares? Let go of your ego and accept that this long strange trip is far from over.

[@childrenoftheabzu]

@@andrewsbarra333 I bet hes been to 200 shows. that is the standard for people to quote when displaying their street cred

[@someotherdude]

@@andrewsbarra333 my comment was 3+ years ago, you responded to it 2 years later. I think Jon Mayer has toned it down a bit as of late, and I like it a lot more now. So you might not realize I was commenting on earlier Jon Mayer. The ego thing, and getting over myself..... maybe come back after you've practiced your keyboard attacks. I'm not hurt.

[@andrewsbarra333]

@@someotherdude ok

[@123Tymathis]

I heard a version of sugared he did with further earlier on Sirius and everything down to his singing voice is copied

[@moodswingy1973]

Wow ringing endorsement of John Mayer 😆😆😆

[@yetivanmarshall1473]

John's a great player but he'll never be a Kurt Cobain.

[@claymationwaves]

If you study Jerry you are blessed!! This guy is annoying like Trey.. Jerry is so much better than anyone nowadays anyway..

[@tonymartinez6068]

You and John Mayer got robbed! Trey was the weakest choice! Love your Music John!!! Furthur days were amazing! Glad to see you with Melvin!!! Much love to all Deadheads🙏

[@SanFranciscoFatboy]

DSO's shows , to me, are just as fun to watch as the deads!!! IMHO they r :) jokn kadlecik is fun to watch and he has the chops to do this ...... ( i would rather see these guys then bob weirs latest car crash of a band(summer 2017)