John Piper Corrects John MacArthur on Stage

John MacArthur and John Piper recently were on stage at the Puritan Conference at Grace Community Church. When asked about possible persecution in the United States, MacArthur gave a 12 minute diatribe of the culture. He said it was "pre-Christian" as if the Gospel has never been to its shores. John Piper had a very different approach and corrected MacArthur in a very cordial yet cutting way.
#johnmacarthur #johnpiper #suffering
✉️NEWSLETTER✉️
Sign up for my monthly newsletter here!
www.getrevue.c...
------ MY LINKS ------
📚MY CURRENT READ📚
Finding the Right Hills to Die on: The Case for Theological Triage:
www.amazon.com...
FOLLOW ME
➡️ / grumpybaptist
➡️ / deanlentini

[@garylemoncelli3728]

In my opinion, John Piper’s response was not a correction but a supplementation to what John MacArthur stated.

[@michaelmannucci8585]

He needs to push drama for views, though.

[@AndiZ23]

Listening carefully, I heard JP (very graciously) offer both a supplentation and a correction. He was not disagreeing with JP's view that there has been less tolerance of Christian views in recent years, but he was saying we should be more careful how we speak of this, teaching (a) persecution is normal, (b) God is still on the throne, and (c) our response should be joyful not angry - as taught v clearly I 1 Peter. He was encouraging JM and us all not towards gloom but joy - as this is in God's greater plan for our good and His glory!

[@Ade23514]

If you watch the full video, which I assume you have, you see that Macarthur did not rebuttal the correction. He accepted it wholly and just added context to his comment which was that America is not the same as it was before and people need to be made aware of that. It's a sad thing to see you as a professing christian reveling in joy that He was corrected and accepted. To me that's a sign of and an example humility not something "awkward".

[@TheB1nary]

Exactly this!

[@blessed2bwifemommy343]

🙌 Amen!

[@juliedfrank]

Totally! you seem to have enjoyed Macauther being corrected. Shame on you. They are both wonderful theologians that we are blessed to have in our life.

[@itsjustmeflo8684]

Holy Spirit continue to touch Ade23514! Anoint his lips, tongue, and hands! Brother in Christ I just KNOW you got that HOLY SPIRIT IN YOU! Be blessed

[@huerosantos7563]

I agree brother 😎👊🏽☝🏽👑

[@sunnywayPS34]

JMac is right. persecution is coming, and being frank about it is a loving thing, not a negative thing. lets not tip toe around it dear one the world does hate us and the world has become a horrible place when it comes to right and wrong godly and lawlessness. Nothing J. Mac said was in error, nothing.

[@maleinamaleina7169]

Love this comment 🤍👌🏾

[@bananka4905]

I agree

[@AndiZ23]

I agree. JM did not speak incorrectly, just incompletely. The question was about HOW we should respond.

[@edwinrivera5377]

i hope the pastor who replaces John at GCC is a man who stands for truth and is not afraid to speak the facts

[@tiffanykile8644]

MacArthur is a godly man and has proven his faithfulness to the truth over a long period of time. Piper has always been somewhat combative and disagreeable in his interactions with MacArthur over the years but MacArthur is always gracious and humble in these interactions. He has been on the front lines of the battle for truth in ways that Piper has not.

[@postmanpat-m1j]

Piper and MacArthur have different ways of answering the question because they have been on different paths for many years. MacArthur has been a warrior for the truth, preaching God's word and urging other pastors to resist the temptation to compromise with error. This has led him into many battles against false doctrine coming from psychology, the charismatics, prosperity preachers, seeker friendly movement, the emergent clowns, and most recently, social justice. So please understand if his remarks sound like doom and gloom. He's been waging war and he won't quit. Piper on the other hand has a happy-go-lucky outlook. His pursuit of "Christian Hedonism" took him to the sidelines where he has served as a cheerleader for Rick Warren, Beth Moore, Francis Chan and Mark Driscoll to name a few. History shows us that the Christian leaders who are in the fight will suffer persecution and when they answer a question, you should expect a serious, weighty answer.

[@Underdogtheology]

I don’t know if I’ve ever seen Piper described as happy-go-lucky. This is a first.

[@john318john]

@@Underdogtheology Have you seen anyone from JM church angry at the world or the government. Do you think John Piper would have addressed Gavin Newsom with open letter about using the scriptures to support abortion? JM was right about the country regarding government and companies sanctioning immoral behavior, the use of different pronouns and others. That's not something that has been seen in the history of the Church. I was surprised JP was invited to the conference, he's been drifting lately to the side of liberation and wokeness theology but has not fully gone there. It might also be from JP own son leaving the faith and becoming antagonistic to the faith.

[@thomasK411]

@@Underdogtheology why you’re going after MacArthur who is one of the main people today standing up against false doctrine. Im assuming you’re a liberal Christian just by your questionable viewpoints.

[@SpotterVideo]

MacArthur has promoted the Pretrib doctrine for many years. The globalists at the "World Economic Forum" have said by 2030 you will own nothing, and you will be "happy". Meanwhile many in the modern Church claim we do not need to be concerned about global government. The truth is found below. What does an understanding of the New Covenant do to the Pretrib Rapture doctrine? Since the New Covenant is “everlasting” in Hebrews 13:20, how is the New Covenant Church age going to end seven years before the Second Coming of Christ? Why would anyone think God is going back to the Old Covenant system now made “obsolete” by the New Covenant in Hebrews 8:13? We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24. Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it. The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. "It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view." (The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197.) Tim LaHaye was co-author of the “Left Behind” books and movies which have convinced millions of modern Christians that the Church age ends seven years before the Second Coming of Christ. Recently, Pastor Matt Furse of Mountain View Baptist Church in Custer, S.D. has written a book titled “Which One Is Right?’, which reveals the recent history of the pretrib rapture doctrine, and the fact it does not agree with what is written in the King James Bible. The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected. The Greek words for “wrath” and “tribulation” are not the same word, as proven by the verse below. Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. Watch the KZbin video “Pretribulation Paradox” by former pretrib believer skydiver626.

[@MET4Christ4ever]

Too much commentary. Don't make something out of nothing. Piper & Mac are both free to say what they think. It doesn't necessarily mean one was correcting the other.

[@maleinamaleina7169]

Time is now of the essence and coddling people does not work anymore. Pastor John MacArthur is saying that BECAUSE we love them we must speak the truth in this form! Now is the time to be bold in the face of so much deceit!

[@JonathanJilliana]

Man, Piper’s exhortation hit me hard. Lord anchor us ❤️‍🔥 My take away: western insulation from persecution and it’s becoming increasingly prevalent THESE days is not a good litmus test for “the times.” We’ve been in the end of the age since Christ first appeared. Thanks for sharing🙏🏻

[@UnderHisHand]

Piper never saw the deception of the Scam- Dem, which surprised me, as he's always been so sound otherwise.

[@davidcollins3589]

If I was John Mac… I would have said to J Piper…”We’ll- you certainly get to have your opinion on this John!”

[@danielsoto2994]

Piper and MacArthur are both great teachers and I have learned a great deal through the ministries that God has given them.? I have my personal preference but I would not put down the one over the other, that is to discredit what God has done through them, and I believe that this is what this video has done, not to mention that it might discourage some younger in the faith. It’s ok to have a preference, God made us individuals, but to make the servant of God look bad and then blame it on his age. I see this video as being very disrespectful to a man whom God has used so greatly for His own purpose. I advice, as a brother in Christ, to use your time well in making videos that encourage the body of Christ and not tear down His ministers. May God bless you greatly and fill you with much wisdom over intellect🙏

[@HPP2023]

I think these two men are giving the same answer with one being more focused on being precise and one that is not. You should watch the interview John MacArthur did with Ben Shapiro. He does not think this is a Christian nation. I have heard people in their "camp" say it was found on "deism". I agree. He said pretty much everything John Piper said with a lot of elaboration and yes, age is kicking in you can tell. And I do not see a "correction" towards John MacArthur, just a call to explain - challenge maybe - being on the platform that they are on (not in the pulpit) to "turn it" for the edification of those present and listening. Times are changing objectively/morally in a country that THINKS it is Christian by establishment, not by the individuals who live in it and their individual relationship with the living God. This is why people are in an uproar, waging war as the world does and not living as said in 1 Timothy 2. We do not lead insurrections but submit out of reverence to Christ. I am not a "fan" of any pastor, but I do cling to what is good and test and weigh things and from what I have heard from both of these pastors regarding suffering, I do not see any contradictions. We as Christians are the poster children (or should be) for recognizing and standing firm (not standing up) in Christ. 2 Tim 3:12 says "all who will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution". When we live IN Christ, not in ourselves, but in Christ - everything He stands for and taught in accordance with the word of God - whoever lives in THAT and HIM will be persecuted. The times we are in with abortion, gender identity, homosexuality, etc - things that are moral issues are being reduced to mere civil ones and people are screaming about their rights. Yes, Christians should be ready because their viewpoint of persecution will change. The landscape was never meant to be in our favor. We should always utilize scripture as a reference for this, especially for those Americans who may seem surprised by it. A line is being drawn in the sand. You cannot have your Christ and patriotism at the same time - there is only one God - and you either love Him or hate him.

[@rrickarr]

The Puritans accused women of being witches and dunked them in water where they could not possibly win!!!!!

[@JohnDxian]

Dean, I appreciate your (1) balance, and (2) your keeping things concise and to the point. (Some other KZbin channels are otherwise good but the posts are unnecessarily too long, like they think they are the only ones viewers want to see.)

[@Underdogtheology]

Concise! John, you might be the only one who has ever said that to me. Appreciate it. 😜

[@lesliesmith719]

I watched Conversations That Matters podcast one time about Hohn Cho's article in Christianity Today about Macarthur handling the Eileen Gray case. The podcast host was soo long winded and diverted to numerous other points during this podcast that I literally could not finish watching him. It was so painfully to listen to him. Again this was the only time I listened to him and maybe he is not like that in other podcasts.

[@lesliesmith719]

I watched Conversations That Matters podcast one time about Hohn Cho's article in Christianity Today about Macarthur handling the Eileen Gray case. The podcast host was soo long winded and diverted to numerous other points during this podcast that I literally could not finish watching him. It was so painfully to listen to him. Again this was the only time I listened to him and maybe he is not like that in other podcasts.

[@AndiZ23]

A VERY helpful and balanced video. We should always be helping each other understand God’s truth better. It's extremely helpful when well-known teachers show a willingness to learn, including giving & receiving gracious correction. "What, after all, is Apollos? What is Paul? Only servants.... Neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who makes things grow." (1Cor.3:5,7)

[@malefetsanemabote3655]

None of them is 'wrong' - but I agree we need that balance - both the scathing rebuke of our culture's immorality and a joyous reminder that Christ in us, the Hope of Glory!

[@angloaust1575]

These pastors dont have a monopoly on God Best to trust the Holy Spirit for guidance and truth!

[@koc118]

Which is EXACTLY why these money making conferences are so ridiculous. They are numerous and they are everywhere. It's also why the same 5 or 6 guys are "on stage" for most of the gatherings (Beeke, Lawson, MacArthur, Piper, etc.). These guys have found a way to make a big paycheck fast. Soon they will be wrestling each other in front of the crowd and Todd Friel will be the referee. All of these guys need to go tend to their flocks and stop trying to sell books and garner more fame by conferencing.

[@huerosantos7563]

‭‭Proverbs 27:17 ESV‬‬ [17] Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another.

[@johndavis6338]

The reason Dr. McArthur said that it is o.k to take the mark of the beast and still be able to turn to The LORD through Christ Jesus and go to heaven, I think, is because that he embraces a doctrine which is theologically in nature the most deeply emotional and humbling message to any person who fears death not knowing their fate; but intimately regrets their actions in life. I am that man and deserved to die horrifically. Eternally. We learn of the consequences of sin in this life through law and penalty, but later we begin to understand how we effected everyone around us and how their lives were shattered and deeply scarred: experiencing the guilt acquainted with our actions and regret how we've lived. Later in life someone shares that God exists and brought his Son to be The penalty for that sin. Turning to The Father through Jesus testimony in life, his death, and in his resurrection reach toward his faith accepting His Way, and now we are truly free.......... Looking back to that old life with deep sadness brings bitter sorrow, (you could say that is a gift), because when we see Jesus' sacrifice; God's mercy and unbound grace: I know I wept with a long and very deep, and thoughtful pause. "A 40,000 YARD STARE." I have been granted to....Life forever. We are now truly set free, I and all are no longer sentenced and weighted down by a sentence of death. "O Grave where is thy victory. O death where is thy sting?" *Note: I may have missed certain details, but that's my life's journey after 60 years.. Once written in Heaven, the believer is never rejected. Always and forever saved. I truly believe what Jesus said to me personally in the men he inspired to write from Genesis to Revelation. The Word of God is very simple though in his teaching that if anyone comes to God they will learn to not sin. "O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!" "Wherewithall shall a young man cleanse his way? By taking heed thereto according to thy Word." "Thy Word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee." If we do sin, we ask The LORD for his forgiveness. 1 John chapter 1 The letter Paul wrote to the Hebrews in chapter 4 reads, "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of The Holy Ghost," "And have tasted the good Word of God, and the powers of the world to come," "If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; SEEING THEY CRUCIFY TO THEMSELVES THE SON OF GOD AFRESH, AND PUT HIM TO AN OPEN SHAME." John confirms this in 1 John 2: 19, saying, "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." In 1 John 5: 16 he writes, "There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it......." Accepting the mark of the beast is denying The LORD, and Worshipping the beast, and his image, taking his number. If it was just a means of tracking monetary transactions as with our phone apps, or banking cards, God would not have written the urgent warning against it. It is a mark which goes within the user; Many countries are currently beginning to impliment this technology. John McArthur believes, if I am correct, that anyone who accepts Christ can never be lost willingly. That person no matter what he has done can be forgiven. Jesus specifically said, "If any man WORSHIP THE BEAST AND HIS IMAGE, AND RECEIVE HIS MARK........The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God...." To this day I revile the memory of my life as a carcass dead and rotting in a desert. This is the creed now of all who trust in the anchor of our soul. "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of The Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." Galations 2: 20 A Christian and a Desert Storm Vet, John

[@JonAdamsMinistries]

Man I love Piper, great video! I believe I heard you say that you agree with everything piper has ever said and if that's the case then I agree with you ;)

[@lukedailey]

I heard that too, Jon.

[@Underdogtheology]

Get the wax out your ears, son!!!

[@rhondae8222]

I love John MacArthur. 😊

[@JonAdamsMinistries]

@@JonathanGrandt he said it with his eyes 👀

[@jesussavessinners123]

Funny:)

[@l.g.brandon4294]

I really think a lot of the senior pastors, as in over 65, really don't understand the culture in America right now. They aren't in it. They have their church, office, wife , family, congregation and friends. And really live in that bubble. Nothing against them, but they are a little ignorant of modern America. Thinking this country is relatively the same as they grew up. Leave it to Beaver is over.

[@nizolehompashe766]

John Piper is ryt, fix your eyes unto Jesus

[@TheCannonofMohammed]

To John Piper: Piper, since you maintain that policies, no matter how Satanic, should not influence the way we vote, and that the “person” should be the only thing we evaluate, who are the candidates-without-sin for the midterms?

[@pauln4328]

God bless you,very helpful 👏

[@EMMMDs]

This isn't about education, this is about selling tickets... Why wouldn't u include MacArthur's answer?

[@greengateacreshomestead4324]

John Piper gives advice on what to do, that is amazing. I would not trust Piper with any advice.

[@TomJones-wm4ro]

Great counter point and correction from Piper

[@michaelmannucci8585]

Did you watch the original video?

[@TheCannonofMohammed]

To John Piper: Want a good belly laugh? Re-read your piece on “How to Live Under an Unqualified President.” Jan 20, 2017. You had it in for Trump right from the beginning. But what cracks me up is the title. How to live? Tell that to the babies currently being slaughtered in the womb worldwide ON OUR DIME. How to live? Tell that to the students who are having state-sponsored transgenderism crammed down their throats. How to live? Tell that to the church being slaughtered in Afghanistan. How to live? Tell that to the victims of a crime rate spiraling out of control while Democrats talk about defunding the police. How to live? Tell that to the 1,000 Americans abandoned in Afghanistan. How to live? Tell that to the millions of families being beggared by inflation. How to live? Tell that to the families of the one hundred thousand Americans killed by fentanyl last year. How to live? Tell that to the child sex slaves coming across Biden’s open boarder. How to live? Tell that to the children who are being hyper-sexualized by perverted teachers and "drag queen" story hour. How to live? Tell that to the millions who now face a real threat of nuclear war. Are you getting my drift? What do you see when you look in the mirror? I will tell you what you should be seeing: a hyper judgmental, confused old man with no sense of proportion.”

[@Swordbringer]

“Do not hasten in your spirit to be angry, For anger rests in the bosom of fools. Do not say, “Why were the former days better than these?” For you do not inquire wisely concerning this.” ‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭7‬:‭9‬-‭10‬ ‭NKJV‬‬ I feel like part of the problem with some of Christian’s in the MacArthur camp are so focused on how things used to be, that they forget that this is nothing new. That believers have and will continue to be suffering servants, and that wickedness isn’t just everywhere else, but in them. These type of people identify first with their American heritage, than Christianity, so much so that the thought of it degenerating threatens them more than their own sin. That’s why I agree with John Piper’s sentiments and appreciate his boldness to call out these nonsensical ideas in front of that entire crowd, so that it’s exposed for what it is. Props to MacArthur though, for accepting it and elaborating further. Glory to God for both of these men’s lives, and I hope that they continue in their purposes for Christ, His church, and His kingdom.

[@razvanbarcan3543]

I think you're missing the point a little. When John MacArthur exposes the extend of depravity in our culture, it is actually meant to lead christians into praying for the lost. Sure, it also produces anger in us but a righteous anger towards sin, not hatred toward the lost. Also, the more we expose sin, the more we understand how beautiful God's grace is.

[@Zb-uo2bl]

Polite disagreement beats division!!

[@AngieMck]

Anyone that truly knows both Johns knows their differences in personalities and temperaments. The are both faithful men in the Ministry of Christ. In my opinion this video in its context was neither helpful nor edifying. Nevertheless, as John Piper clarified his position, so did John MacArthur. There’s no news in this. I don’t see mainstream or the government embracing biblical truths and teaching, since they are contrary. Therefore, the hostility in America exists. You may not have to lose your head in America now, but you can still lose other things like friends, family, jobs, and even your life. Share the true Biblical Gospel with an unbeliever or professing anti-Bible Christian, then post how that went for you. If all goes well, you’re going to do one of two things, thank God, or examine yourself.

[@bronx7886]

Brother, we can all agree that evil is always “ordinary” in this world and we need to liive in and above the reality of that. At the same time, in all due respect, anyone who downplays the extraordinariness of evil in the present day serves only to blind people to the seriousness of the threat to which what is left of Christian Western civilisation is exposed at present. This is serious. As Christians of the Reformed persuasion, we have a calling, not only to fulfil the Great Commission, but also the Cultural Mandate. That does not mean that we “are Americans” before we are Christians. It means that we are Christian Americans who take both seriously.

[@richardrecker3909]

Hello & greetings. I haven't watched any of your other showings on your channel,I would only say from the 1st time seeing and watching that for some resson you seem & are very anti- McCarthur. Ive been watching a lot of different Christian channels & the big problem w/Christians is if we disagree with certain individuals beliefs or breakdown of scripture,we ought to pray for them & ask the Lord to show them,rather than put them down & expose them. There comes a time,when it is right to expose them,its also written in the bible as far as the steps & procedures to go about correcting one that continues in sin,or is off base in his teachings. I dont see ANYONE, reffering to the biblical way! To many want to correct in a boastful way instead of the way Jesus so taught us by humility. Be humble.

[@melregissings]

You can't teach someone to suffer from a pulpit. It's something you have to experience for yourself. Actually the United States government has played a role in a lot of suffering going on in other nations today. I just don't see how anyone preaching in a mega millions church in the US should really be worried about their persecution. Having heated arguments or debates with outsiders on moral issues is not the same as persecution.

[@musicappreciate]

Thanks for clearing the air. 😮

[@AWHayes]

There’s a balanced approach. Truth hurts and frees people all at once. Love disciplines and saves. Your son may not be a trial all because of autism. Your son will be a trial because you love him enough to agonize over his well-being. You will agonize for your son’s walk with God. This is still a blessing and joy, all at once. My son isn’t autistic; yet, I agonize - wanting him to walk with God and wanting him to love God with all his heart, soul and strength. And, still, I count it all joy. The hard truth frees and condemns all at once. Neither of these men were wrong. They simply balanced each other. Imagine walking around all day without any agony of conviction. Imagine walking around all day without joy and rejoicing. Where would the growth happen? Our trials grow us; therefore, we rejoice even still. “Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing” (James1:2-4). “I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world” (John16:33). I love you my brother!

[@knatsomitab7376]

1 Corinthians 2:2 "For I decided to know nothing amongst you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. " I love both pastor's. One seems to see the world more than what the Light of this world is.

[@knatsomitab7376]

@@JonathanGrandt exactly why I posted it. Most forget too remember the basic Truth and focus on the world.

[@NowTheEndBeginsMinistries]

Anyone who gets their Bible doctrine from MacArthur has been taught wrong. Very wrong.

[@bostonbruinsfan247]

There is no silver lining on this earth. You should know that.

[@Underdogtheology]

What a sad existence, all doom on this side, eh?

[@lukedailey]

Dean, you’re just a Piper fan. Stop this fanboy flattery. Hahaha

[@lukedailey]

Also, I think the answers to this question about culture/Christianity/suffering are answered by the lifestyles of these two pastors. One lives on a mountain in a nice home, the other lives on the Main Street of the city. Perspective of culture and Christianity changes depending upon our experiences in the culture. I think MacArthur lives apart from culture, in an ivory tower.

[@Underdogtheology]

@@lukedailey I could not agree more. I think I’ve said this before, but when I was at a Bethlehem conference I was shocked that Piper was just hanging out with people and he was very polite when I went up and talked with him. He even walked around the book section. I doubt you’d see that EVER with JMac. A lot of red ropes and security guards keeping him from people.

[@Underdogtheology]

🤣

[@josiahpulemau6214]

@@Underdogtheology Not at all. My wife got a picture with him last year when she was out there in California. She said as she approached him for a picture that the deacons looked to JM and he simply said it’s okay. This video is for those who go against JM doctrinally and yet him and piper are very good friends. His theology as oppose to Pipers are two different styles where one is laid back while the other is more theological. You can’t blame a man for loving theology and say he lives in an ivory tower because he approaches scripture differently. If anything somewhere along the lines with the approach Piper has toward scripture somehow turned his son Abraham completely anti Christ. The scale tips in favor of JM for me and many others just off of that alone

[@parkman8595]

@@lukedailey it's an average California suburban home that he purchased way back in the 1980s... It's worth something now, but it was not worth much AT ALL then. Secondly, it is NOT a mountain, it's literally a a dusty canyon. Thirdly, the Camarillo home he also had way back in the 80s, as a place to get away and study, and the Colorado home, the land was given to him, with the purpose of the homes being a blessing to refresh him as he has gotten older in age. He literally never stops, the guy is working in ministry all the time, and he's in his 80s.. I'm thrilled others have given him places of rest and seen fit to bless him for his continued faithful ministry. Does he sometimes speak perhaps too uninhibitedly? Probably. But I've met him a number of times and he's approachable and down to earth, you can tell he has a real heart for people.

[@YouSoCouldHaveGotMe]

That’s not what Piper said..he said he doesn’t think the current culture warrants persecution readiness as opposed to any cultural condition. In other words, Piper is saying that persecution/suffering readiness should be preached and taught to ALL Christians in ALL cultures, whether those cultures are favorable to Christianity or not.

[@aosidh]

Super-distorted worldview 🤝 Calvinism 🤝 fatalism

[@nickysankey1210]

John MacArthur was right. Finished. If you think otherwise, might I suggest you haven't understood the Bible at all. He explained in detail because it's very important that people get what is happening and how it ends and has nothing to do with his age.

[@Underdogtheology]

I find it interesting that you’re seemingly saying disagreeing with MacArthur is equivalent with disagreeing with the Bible.

[@wanersanja461]

I love this about Christians, we just fall unto each other hahahha man you areeeee going to be judge to the coma !

[@jcarroliga2751]

It’s unfortunate that you are making this video, build the body don’t mutilate it. Just for a video.

[@JonClash]

super interesting!

[@jameshughes9288]

we should have intense anger toward Evil deeds and Powers..coming off a little judgy towards MacArthur. we're supposed to hate evil but don't, definitely the biggest problem in the "church". if you cherish you sin in your heart God won't listen to you pray.

[@FearNot_StandStill]

One's reaction to both pastors depends a lot on where you are coming from; what you believe to be truth (perhaps around eschatology?) Sure, we can and do ofttimes easily get beyond ourselves in the sense that each one is bias towards their present condition, past experience/exposure to, values and image of themselves in the world today and also many influences from our environment (who was not bullied in school or falsely accused/insulted?). Personally, the traumatic worldwide four years past has had a tremendous effect on my view of eschatology and the world as a whole. To me it was a wake-up-call! and I believe it was meant for everybody. I won't try force my opinion on people, but I will express it as a fact, take it or leave it. Be it children, youth, ministry, politics, economics, marriage, mental and physical health, study, corporate, government, war, peace, old age, religion - I see the result of something that occurred on the planet that was deeper than the skin i.e. at the spiritual level. Even secularity has a wobble to its usually confident step and so its worshippers. Anyone I meet and have met in the past two years has a story that bruises my hope should I allow it. Pain, suffering, loneliness, loss, tears, questions, change, challenge: from concern to depression. Not a single person voiced great hope for our world other than some Amillennial nitwits on the net. Great is the pity to find that our own pastors don't talk about certain doctrinal issues such as cessationism, eschatology, prophecy. This gets to me more than anything my family and I have had to deal with recently. I've resorted to studying my KJV Bible and trying to let go and let God (take care of things). No way there's time to lose - we are urged to awaken! God is watching us. Is the falling away of the church today a reality. Yes! We must pray.....

[@TYRANNOSAURUS-1]

We get it! You don’t like John MacArthur!!

[@stevenjames1951]

God is not sovereign, we are. God depends on our prayer life.without Prayer he will do absolutely nothing to intervene in the affairs of man. It seems to me that without God man cannot and without man God will not.

[@Underdogtheology]

Your god is too small.

[@isaias9516]

I somewhat agree and disagree with your comment. To justify my disagreement with you, I simply point you to the entire Q & A session where MacArthur affirms Pipers “Christian Hedonism” and confesses that he is somewhat of a Christian hedonist himself. Also, there appears to be a false dichotomy made in your comment (although you may not intend it to come off that way) - Piper has publicly stood against many of the same things MacArthur has (though I agree that this has not been on all points). This is why MacArthur still holds fellowship with Piper while he has in fact distance himself from other ministers. In other words, MacArthur himself disagrees with you about Piper. This is evident in both MacArthurs words and actions as it regards his relationship of Piper both now and throughout the years.

[@floridaurbanhomestead192]

To say that were in a “pre christian culture” is strange. There are Christians on this earth and in this country and we’re not interested in creating a culture in the world for Christianity we are following Christ and spreading the gospel.

[@chuckyspell]

Why does this stuff show up in the recommendations? Please!

[@johnmitchell7340]

Don't see it being a bad as you made it.

[@fredkison6400]

I would say American Christian’s are in NO way prepared for actual persecution as we see in scripture…Believers we’re stuck on poles and lit on fire for Nero’s amusement as he went through his garden. A cursory look in the rear view mirror of history just shows McCarthur’s fundamentalist anger towards people who disagree with him more than he has in any way prepared any believers for the current moment with what the Gospel requires. Piper is absolutely right in this conversation!

[@Underdogtheology]

I like the way Ray Ortlund Jr talks about our faith resulting in a cheerful defiance of evil/sin in this world. I think that applies to how we deal with persecution as well.

[@philb113]

I think you are misrepresenting Mcarthur here.

[@deirdrehelms5958]

A C person should be glad when a minister is corrected We should all be glad and see that as sn example on how we handle correction Yes we should ALL be thrilled when a minister is corrected The error in current Christianity is worship and adulation of men Only pride results from a man being glorified as a demi-god Good men have fallen to megalomaniac after being esteemed as holy Let me ask why do YOU not get happy when a minister is corrected Does it seem like blasphemy yl you?

[@jetdriver26]

I agree with them both.

[@huerosantos7563]

This is the thing you KZbinrs do now, using false a Thumbnail to get views and subscribers. I seen this Question and Answer already. They both have differences, but highly respectful of each other. So what, if don't see eye to eye. Both are great Pastors. Check yourself before pointing at other's. 😎👊🏽☝🏽👑

[@Underdogtheology]

What do you think you just did?

[@allenchinodakufa8743]

You should revise your manners, don't forget how much truth he shared. Don't laugh at your elders for a mistake. Be humble, listen and observe.

[@Underdogtheology]

I laugh at foolishness, doesn’t matter who says it.

[@thomasK411]

You’re being a joy about macarthur being corrected really makes me wonder your intentions and beliefs ?

[@storyofscripture]

I think it would be fair to say, America has some legitimate foundational underpinnings from Christianity i.e. mayflower compact, declaration of independence. We definitely are not the new Israel, and I am not advocating for Christian nationalism, just saying that there are some serious influences of our nation.

[@storyofscripture]

@@JonathanGrandt What term would you like to use for someone who is advocating increasing state control to maintain religious hegemony?

[@georgeakoto6589]

Both are correct but macArthur is more on correct

[@paullaymon5746]

“The prosperity doctrine lacks the doctrine of suffering” - no it does not. It simply defines the suffering as spiritual warfare against an malevolent enemy. Piper believes we ultimately suffer from the hands of a sovereign God.

[@somethinggood9267]

Don't most people who believe the prosperity Gospel believe that God would never allow you to suffer?

[@lesliesmith719]

Don't we all suffer from the hands of a soveign God? If you say suffering comes from the devil well God controls everything...including the devil.

[@paullaymon5746]

@@lesliesmith719 God’s will can be resisted - that is why Jesus says to pray that Gods will would be done on earth as it is in heaven. Their is no pain , accidents, tragedy, or suffering in heaven nor should these conditions be on earth. Satan was not created to be evil but became evil by his own free choice.

[@KK-tb5rw]

The Bible tells us that the last days will be "as in the days of Noah." That is like the pre-Christian era, and we are headed straight to it, just as the Bible tells us. Telling your congregation that you should be joyful when evil and persecution is coming is like the prosperity gospel -- just telling people it'll all be OK. The problem of the Church today is that preachers don't want to scare their congregation with the Truth, and Piper is showing that he is that type.

[@user-wp6bc3vs3i]

You just need to watch the video brother 😂 . It is a supplemention of the answer

[@jakeestrada1239]

Piper = Christian Hendonism

[@toddstevens9667]

Clearly we aren’t facing persecution per se here in America. I haven’t been thrown in jail yet for preaching the gospel. I haven’t been beat up for sharing the Gospel in America yet. Who knows if at some point I will be. But American Christians are wimps. Sour looks and exasperated harrumphs count as persecutions evidently now. If you’ve followed Piper for any amount of time, you know that suffering and persecution in this world are things to be expected. But it’s something to be joyed and rejoiced over. But what is happening to Christians in America is basically nothing relative to what Christians face in China or North Korea or Saudi Arabia. We probably need some actual persecution to toughen us up and to drive us to depend more on God and His Word, rather than political activism.

[@Underdogtheology]

I agree with a lot of this Todd. I think we need to stop focusing on us and whether we’re being persecuted and focus on the world and getting them the Gospel.

[@toddstevens9667]

@@Underdogtheology Just wanted to say that I hadn’t seen your channel before but have seen several videos today. I’m enjoying them very much and really like your approach. Thanks for your work and effort. It is appreciated.

[@Underdogtheology]

@@toddstevens9667 thanks. I really appreciate that.

[@toddstevens9667]

@@JonathanGrandt Yes, very true.

[@jimyost2585]

This is all about the pots calling the kettles black seeing as how none of them speak by the anointing of the Holy Spirit, they all speak by anointings by kingdom of darkness religious spirits whose job in the kingdom of darkness is to mimic the Holy Spirit.

[@solitarypawn5076]

Both Piper and McArthur are Calvinists which means neither one is filled with the Holy Spirit because their beliefs are faulty (partial election???), nor do they understand that unless we are led by the Spirit, and are full of the love of God, we are not going anywhere.

[@thomasadventures7359]

So is conversion or a rejection of Calvinism a biblical requirement for possessing the Spirit?

[@toddstevens9667]

Lol

[@Underdogtheology]

I’m a Calvinist.

[@sunnywayPS34]

you are sadly mislead.

[@bibleman7757]

And at the end macauther came up with another poor excuse

[@Underdogtheology]

It definitely wasn’t good.