Is This The Future Of Modeling...The HX One, Fractal VP4 and Nanocortex?

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[@davidrensa3702]

Hi John and everyone else. I set up a Grammatico patch in my stomp xl to sound close to your Dumble ish tone, then captured it to the nano, I also took a modded Marshall 80s tone in Tonex and captured it to the nano. Using the fx in the nano with those captures make the nano my pocket amp perfectly. My quad cortex and stomp xl have dust on them now. I will get back to you after the Tonex update. My Tonex One might take center stage after that. Well see. Cheers y’all, Dave

[@FEV369]

The issue with modelers is simple, you only get what they give you... - If you want particular distortion, odd pedals, better or different reverbs... you can't really do it without finding yourself right back at a growing pedals board. - The cost of the "flagship" + 3-4 other pedals and higher end monitors is in the 5-6k range - Small form modelers allow you to set what you like/want from a flagship modeler back into your chain, Compression>Equalizer>Distortion>Fuzz>Odd pedal>Delay>Reverb>Preamp>Amp... If you want a reverb off a modeler and that's all, you can't really build a chain of pedals around a flagship modeler, but you can if it's small and less powerful. - Modelers are headed right back to AMP setups as the novelty of simplicity wears off... At some point you just miss the analog feel running through an amp, so now we get power amps running into real FRFR cabs that are costing 600$ - 1,200$. - Capture is great if you own the amps, cabs and pedals top actually capture that single frame of settings/sounds --------------- Modelers are not dead or dying, but I think they have peaked. Pedals offer better sounds and better feel but lack 1 button clicks to change your whole setup... Reality is that most people will only use a few amp sims, a couple reverbs, 1 delay and a few distortions... Having 150 AMPs and 100 cabs + 12 reverbs and 32 distortions comes with limitations of less verity of new pedals.

[@tiomkinnyborg2289]

Gimped, cut down products are not the answer. We are at a stage that most units are capable of sounding the same. They are just computers shifting bits through a DAC. The magic lies in fooling the buyer into buying the same thing over and over again. People love buying and defending buying crap devices so everyone is happy. In the end it all boils down to the user interface and software (if you can run it if you don't use Windows or Mac). I'll stick with old units and watch videos.

[@Genociv]

I've been saying the same thing for quite a while now. I've used HELIX Floor for 7 years, and switched to a UA Ruby because I realized having so many options made me tweak again and again instead of playing. Now, I have 2 presets on my Ruby and a few pedals, and when I plug in my guitar to play : I play, I don't spend 2 hours noodling and trying to find the perfect combination of amp, cab, pedals and s***. Use whatever you feel makes you a better musician.

[@brianmiller3287]

@tiomkinneyborg. Very good point about buying the same things over and over. Although I already have numerous products that overlap each other in many ways, I still watch these stupid videos, hoping to discover a "better way"... Mercifully, I've slowed way down on actually buying more stuff!!! Cheers!

[@tiomkinnyborg2289]

@@brianmiller3287I was tempted to get the latest Ampero as it does captures, modelling and effects. I asked Hotone about supplying Linux software for the unit as it runs Linux internally. They replied that they have no plans to support Linux. So that saved me some money. Not sale. Why buy something that sounds no different from what you have and you cannot use it as intended? One day a manufacturer will cotton on to the fact that computers that run the internet do not run Windows, and users of that software have money to spend too.

[@fleetadmiralsidiqi1941]

One more phase I would like to see is all these smart Chinese engineers take the final steps and get Fractal quality tones inside their products and more or less keep the same price. It's coming, just don't know exactly when. Just like how BYD surpassed Tesla to the point of getting banned in the US, it is only a matter of time.

[@robertstan2349]

i have tube amps older than i am. those old modeler units will not make it. CPUs go obsolete and the software is not backwards compatible, so once that flimsy made surface mount stuff goes tits up in the coming years, it's likely over.

[@stevethebeeline44]

Holy shit! 1:56-2:08! Your playing has always been stellar but there is a fluidity in your playing here. Man just hit the Nitrous Oxide!

[@ksharpe10]

Great Playing from my Favorite KZbin Player John Cordy. Ole Blue is back!!!

[@Ozman77]

Very good analysis. The people complaining about a lot of these products aren’t the target audience. The more modular pedalboard crowd are the target audience and these newer offerings are probably intended to be gateway drugs into the flagship products eventually, or even if they don’t go that far they’re at least putting their products on boards that they otherwise would never have been on. A VP4 with nano or ToneX One would be a very high quality set up that would be nearly impossible to recreate using individual pedals for the same price with anywhere close to the same quality. I love my FM9, and I also really enjoy using the Nano now to add captures to it without taking up much more space at all.

[@andsoistopped]

The HX Stomp or HX effects can offer a lot. I think Line 6 have it covered and covered very well.

[@rockstarjazzcat]

I do not want to upgrade flagship products, the same as not wanting to have expensive computers be programmed obsolete. The S/PDIF in/out on the VP4 was a brilliant move. Cheers.

[@yikelu]

The fact of the matter is that specialization creates more value for the end consumer. Ironically, doing everything pretty well is also a specialty (Line 6's). Actually, it's more like "playing well with others". I think you're absolutely right about targeting different demos. It just makes sense. I disagree with people saying that units are capable of sounding the same. Or rather, I agree when it comes to the core modeling capabilities, but disagree when it comes to more experimental and crazy sounds. For your bread and butter wah, compressor, drive pedal, amp, cab, chorus, delay, reverb signal chains, all the big name modelers have it covered. It's the other stuff that gets missed. There's a gazillion pedals and people have their personal favorites. They don't want to throw them away for a flagship unit and "sound like everyone else". Better to invite those guys in with e.g. HX One/Stomp, Nano Cortex, ToneX etc.

[@AtlanteanGuitarist]

I only come here to listen and watch johns top quality playing :) I will stick with Tonex for a good while yet. but my next unit will be a fractal at some point in the future.

[@ruvchbrevth]

Looking for somebody to love riff was ❤️‍🔥

[@joemiller9856]

Yes… interesting changes in modeling.. extend their base by introducing products that segment some of there all in one functional into lower priced units (e.g. effects without amp models). This lowers the price of entry but also may speak with some who are resistant to replacing amps, for example. It also opens up the possibility of using the best amp capturing pedals like Tonex side by side with the best effects units.

[@mr.bluenotedoobop]

I dunno, I sold all my pedals, kept 1 basic drive, fuzz, delay and reverb. But, I took my money and reinvested it in a QC and I find it perfect.

[@dustyparker4806]

I think the Nano cortex and Vp4 nail it in being efficient but covering the realistic. I figured out if you love your tube amps but want to consolidate your effects with still killer quality, then Vp4. Similar to what you said. And if you’re into profiling and digital amps then nano is genius because you still get effects. I think even as a tube amp and analog pedals guy, those two pieces are the most exciting and genius things I’ve seen in a bit.

[@Dan-of-NJ]

I think of future of modeling will be a sophisticated (Universal) single or multi pedal interface with a screen that interfaces with a modern computer (ie: Laptop). We won't have to worry about CPU usage or ram and it will have virtually every feature of programmability capable for the programs we use from Helix, Fractal, Kemper, etc. There will be less built in obsolescence which is a major reality for any unit now on the market. That's my vision of the future of the modeler.

[@MurrayWilliams]

Smaller screwdrivers existing doesn’t mean that we’re moving away from larger screwdrivers. It’s more like having the right tool for the job. Some people need all-in-one options … others need to simply model a few things to work with an existing board.

[@nunolance23]

It seems Hotone is releasing a new Ampero II with tone captures as well? I wonder if the Ampero II Stomp will have captures and could be competition for the Nano Cortex/Kemper One/Tonex/etc?

[@raichoo]

Found a lot of the comments that are complaining about the VP4 kind of bizarre. Seems like people are running numbers and comparing them simply by using the metric "more is more". I have an Axe FX III and an FM3 and both of them serve very different purposes. My FM3 actually is used more or less for what the VP4 is doing, just twice as heavy and more bulky. In terms of mobility, the VP4 really hits a sweet spot. 4 effects is quite a lot for plenty of situations when you are using an amp, it costs way less than 4 high quality pedals and a lot of them are not even programmable. Currently a lot of those discussions feel like people running benchmarks and not making music… it's alienating.

[@ebb8870]

there have been a few small hardware units using the open source NAM captures too

[@glennmartin4232]

While there is a lot of talk about new modellers there are some awesome new tube amps hitting the market that are amazing

[@johnnylayton1672]

Maybe asking if the modelling world has given up on trying to replicate live guitar sounds but at far safer volumes brings your question closer to the issue? The irony of course is the integration of electronic effects getting used interchangeably between live & recording environments to beg the question that the modelling world was on the right track from the outset. And philosphically, not just speakers but even performance halls & cathedrals are models for the listening experience. And while yes speakers in one's bedroom vs. sitting at Lincoln Center will offer starkly different listening experiences when hearing the exact same performance from the NY Philharmonic, they both remain modelled music experiences. And so yes the VP4 is only an effects modeller not also an amp thru a mic simulator. But we're all in the end arguing about which professionally modelled experience is more appealing not more genuine.

[@brianmiller3287]

Safer volumes is the number one reason I have moved away from amps! Cheers!

[@AutopsySuiteable]

I prefer the bigger more full featured products to be honest. However I’ve been liking tonex lately and wish I had profiling on my axe fx iii to capture my amps easier.

[@jimvee4528]

For people who play almost entirely at home, is there any reason that the ideal setup isn't a laptop with a DAW and good speakers? I thought I heard a while back that Plini worked that way at some point. My impression is that good processing SW exists (I have several of the Neural DSP plug ins). Love the channel, thanks.

[@THEItchybruddah]

Mornin Maestro, I’d be VERY interested in your take on the UA approach of say what seems to be a “family” of similar amps in one box, with a software component of a phone or tablet app with presets and “celebrity” choices. As always, USEFUL content.

[@ThePlanarchist]

Indeed interesting times. I've been wondering what exactly a "new" product would have to offer to make me definitely want to go and buy it since realistically all the major modellers sound plenty good enough for all but the die hard amp folk. The VP4 is clearly a great product at probably a pretty fair price and although its FX may well be better than anything I have in my HX Stomp or more more compact than my Stryomoin and other pedals would it really make a difference? I used to say I'd really like a Helix in an HX Stomp sized package but have now (with the help of the HX One) now found that most of the time I can manage perfectly well with what the Stomp has to offer. Still exciting to see what's coming though.....

[@chrisdaviesguitar]

Talking about not wanting to spend that type of money, I do think you've missed the point that most guitarists just cannot afford those obscene prices. Same goes for high end guitars.

[@retromacman620]

I wish I could try the VP4 for myself, so I could see if I really think the effects are that higher tier than line 6... there are 400 of them in there...❤

[@paulburton5150]

Compontisation is interesting. But how far to take it. Do you need more than two units I.e an amp modeller and an effects modeller? Personally I would like to see line 6 do a smaller hx effects, something like the Stomp but without the amps and cheaper. This could then be paired with something like the ToneX, or a new LineX amp modeller unit. The trick with modular units would be still providing the advanced routing options the single flagship units provide. Actually, I probably just want an HX Stomp XL II with built in tone capture 🤣

[@johnplaystheguitar123]

Are you going to try the Poly Ample?

[@Thrive-Off-Grid]

Id really like to hear your thoughts of all capture tech on market compared to the higher end modellers like the Fractal. What is capture tech? Yeah I get it captures an amp. But performance wize and how the code works in software, how it performs and feels when compared to an engineered amp model. To me a capture is capturing what ever amp or device and what you are actually capturing is the tone and set up of the amp in that particular settings state. But how does it capture the dynamics and feel of the amp? It cant because that part has to be manually engineered into the code right? I think most are not looking for to get perfect tone that is an exact match to the real deal. But instead want the feel and dynamics of the amp while getting the tone will be very close or close enough. I think Im going to bite the bullet and get the FM3 and throw my Tone X as far as I can throw it; its sucks. Yeah it captures the amps but it dont capture the dynamics or the feel. The tones feel dead even after adding wet FX.

[@nicolasrivera5310]

Just set the new Hotone Ampero II, search for the Leo Gibson new video.

[@7riX7er]

I've heard there are even people out there who purchase every new iPhone

[@antoinefleuriot2509]

What I don't understand is some of these small modellers+effects pedals are designed so there more portable, travel friendly take up less floor space and yet people get them then mount them on a heavy pedal board with half a dozen other pedals making a big heavy, complex, tap dancing and expensive item Take the Kemper player, I thought it was designed to be a compact stand alone unit yet most people mount it on a pedal board + other pedals and you think that sort of kills the whole point of it. You might aswell buy the bigger Kemper Stage. Is it some sort of insecurity that people feel they need all these pedals when one multi effects/amp sim unit for live use will do it. I like to keep it really simple and just concentrate on the music use the unit like it was designed for. I have 3 sounds overdriven Lead, Rhythm and clean + wah pedal and that does me well for a gig. Just Kemper player + wah, nice, compact, light and simple.

[@yikelu]

Modularity and UI accessibility is valuable. Modularity: Kemper is probably "best in slot" when it comes to captures, but not necessarily so for other FX, so one may want something better in other slots. Or maybe it's not "best" but just "different". The KP may have good stock reverbs and delays, but does it have e.g. a pitch shifting arpeggiator like Eventide H9? It may have good drives but does it have *that* particular drive pedal that someone built their sound around? UI accessibility: I don't care about menu diving when setting up my sounds, but when I need to make a quick adjustment on stage, I would like for controls to be quickly accessible. The sound can change a lot between home to rehearsal to the gig due to acoustics and loudness. This is actually why flagship Helix wins for me as the unit I want if I'm ever going on a big tour. Any parameter I want can be a few touches away via the capacitive switches. But for other things, I could easily see the same argument with the KP on a big board -- you want the other pedals' controls visible and accessible to make on the fly adjustments. Now, I personally think you actually create a lot of problems for yourself on a big board like that (knobs getting bumped and changing, cables crapping out, tap dancing, or MIDI programming to avoid tap dancing), but I can understand the appeal of that immediate adjustability.

[@MrPinkStrat]

Do any of theses units sound Good Straight into a Amp & Cab I 'm waiting for a Company to make one that Does going into a Large Headroom Clean Amp On Stage !

[@michael1]

The units that do amp modelling you don't really want a guitar amp, you'd want something that kept the output as was - it's like in a home setup you'd have something like studio speakers if you wanted to use it without headphones. Similarly most amp modellers are simulating a cab + mics. Well if you have a cab on stage then you don't want the cab in the amp model. Most amp modellers allow you to turn off the cab simulation. So it's not 'just plug it in and it sounds good' with amp modelling on stage, you have to be aware of things like that. Except, here though, if the vp4 and hx one are just simulating guitar pedals then it should work with a real amp the same as other guitar pedals do.

[@JasonT-xp3kh]

I think a lot if this gear on the market right now is pointless to some degree. How many people use their laptops for playing and recording at home? Probably a lot more than one would think. It's pretty inexpensive and convenient to buy an interface and simply have your entire rig in software. I think a hardware unit that can download your software rig, no matter what that might be, into a rugged physical unit that you could use on stage would be the next logical progression for a lot of players. There's also some technology on the horizon that could potentially leapfrog our current tech and become the next big thing rendering our current stuff completely obsolete. It will be interesting to see how all of this pans out in the future.

[@giancarlopaolini7529]

Well, I'm too old now and I've gone through different experiences with guitars and effects over the years....or I should say decades. I've come to the conclusion that the main machines are outrageously too much for an ordinary guitar player ...at the end of the day how many combinations one might use ? with just something around 80 presets combinations you've got all you need ...7 or 8 of those amps ranking high in the preference list of many players plus a rack of the traditional fx like octaver, distortion, overdrive, equ, chorus, delays, reverbs and some others at own preference. I've got some 19000 combinations on my Kemper and my FM3 was offering some 512 presets ...the others were all along the very same line ...in a nutshell that's way too much. I don't need all that. The right combination for me today ? I would ponder about 2/two Fractal VP4 ...one in front and the other at the end - in this way one may have 8 fx total ...pre and post ..- and in the middle and amp/cab machine like a Mezzabarba Even Drive or alternatively a Friedman Preamp or any other preferred combination. In the vicinity of 2000 Euros one might get one of the best combinations if not the best of all. That's my conclusion today 🙂

[@grimlancedeathknell8506]

Help needed. I am looking to emulate (not IR capture) the sound on the Line 6 MK1 Pod Pro called Insane. I have wasted money on a Neural Quad and Helix Stomp XL, The new BOSS amp pedal etc (i really have all of this tat now) simply to try get this sound back as the Pod Pros MK1s eventually become obsolete. Does anyone have the actual ingredients of that. Line 6 told me to go away when asked which considering my loyalty to them was poor. Anyone work on it?

[@ianparr1533]

Pocket POD maybe?

[@lostlandmarks8305]

Junk abound!

[@Indiegaze]

It's all a complete ripoff.... Go look at the size, hardware, software, and processing power and capability of a $600 Mac Mini, and how much you get for those $600. it's not much bigger than an HX Stomp. Compare that to what all these modelers and digital pedals are charging, and you realize that you are getting complete dog shit for your money. You can run some of the most powerful software in the world on a $600 Mac Mini, but a $1100 FM3 can't run dual amps sims? Get out of here with this garbage....The HX stomp had weak, terrible hardware when it came out 6 years ago, and they have never upgraded it...but; they are still increasing the price every year, even though, logically - the components should have gotten much cheaper every year, but for some reason, it now costs more than a brand new Mac Mini, despite not having a fraction of the quality, hardware or power - and hasn't been updated in over half a decade. How does that make sense? How in the world can anyone justify that? Most of these products have hardware that should be sold in a $200 bargain bin. If any skilled company like Apple or any major computer / smartphone maker got into making guitar gear, they could probably have made something that could outperform the best, most expensive products from Fractal, Neural DSP, Kemper, Line 6 etc. for $500-1000. All these companies would be absolutely cooked.

[@paulburton5150]

It's almost as if R&D, software development, and hardware economies of scale have an impact on pricing.

[@Indiegaze]

@@paulburton5150 Of course they do, but that’s true for any tech business or business in general. I don’t think anyone spends more on R&D than Apple. But these things are basically computers, and the capabilities and processing power of computers are basically rising exponentially. So 6 years is ancient history in tech. Go see how much you can charge for an iPhone 10 today…6 year old parts are almost worthless. Especially when they weren’t cutting edge or that good to begin with. Apple went several years without upgrading the Mac Pro, and not lowering the cost, and they were torn to shreds for it. Which they deserved, because nobody does that, and that’s not how the industry works. But guitar companies seem to get away with it. They can put an old turd in a metal box and say it’s innovation because of a software update and charge the same price as top of the line computers and smart phones, and nobody calls them out on it.

[@paulburton5150]

@@Indiegaze I do agree we are due a HX v2.0 from Line6. It's great how long they have actively supported the current gen, but we are due a revamp. If only to bring the v1 prices down 🙂