Johnny vs. Metroid: Other M

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In today's episode, Metroid goes 3D in a title that isn't a Prime game! But this is the one that, um, killed the franchise for a time. Is it any good going back?
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/ somecallmejon
#Nintendo #Metroid #SamusAran

[@Jiggleslinky]

"Metroid: Other M was Sakamoto's baby" You did that on purpose.

[@esmooth919]

That wasn't a pun, though.

[@landmine121]

@@esmooth919 It kinda was consider the games play about Parenting like Johnny said. The games title literally spells MOM or Other M = Mother, etc etc. So Johnny saying the game was Sakamoto's baby could be a pun.

[@SomecallmeJohnny]

I ain’t confessing to nuthin’

[@Deoxys_Used_Mimic]

Ohhhh, I get it. *Kingdom Hearts: Union X was Nomura’s bastard child* …because it’s spells “KHUX” and if you say it out loud…

[@LordArikado]

@@esmooth919 It's also possibly a reference to how many times Samus says "The Baby" in Other M's cutscenes, which has become a minor meme.

[@Shadowlordreaper]

Johnny makes an absolutely good point, this game SHOULD'VE started as the starting point, make Samus go from inexperienced, careless and possibly scared individual to ending the game with her becoming the bounty hunter everyone knows her as.

[@SaviorGabriel]

Agreed. The problem with Other M was that nearly 25 years into this franchise, we're just supposed to buy into these aspects to her character that were never established before all of a sudden. Like how Samus freaks out over Ridley. I liken it to X-Men's Storm who has claustrophobia. Except in Storm's case, that shit was well established early on with her character, and therefore is an accepted part of her character. For Samus, we've spent 20+ years watching her wipe her ass with Ridley, but in Other M it's "MUH PTSD!" It's like changing the rules in the middle of the game.

[@smashmaster521]

@@SaviorGabriel It's even worse because the manga, which came out years before Other M, did a much better job with Samus' PTSD,

[@mysterycupofjoe2670]

Yes. Totally.

[@armedweiss5531]

If Other M was a prequel that takes place at the very start of her journey as a bounty hunter, than a LOT of the game's story beats would make way more sense. Granted the story would still be a mess, but it wouldn't be as despised as it is today.

[@lunaska_]

³³⅗³⅜³¾³⅗⅜3³³⅗³⅜³⅜⅜³³⅜³³⅜

[@DesignDoc]

A year or two after its release, I remember trying to buy Other M at a Gamestop to get my hands on it and understand what was actually wrong with it. Unfortunately, the cashier working at the time was seemingly a hardcore Metroid fan and was very fervent about me not getting it despite me telling him that I just wanted to play it to know what was wrong with it. He wouldn't budge though and it got to the point that I felt that he wouldn't even ring me up so I just left and didn't buy anything (I was going to buy a couple other games as but got so annoyed with this employee that I just left.) A weird experience for sure and I wouldn't be surprised if that employee didn't stay there very long. I mean, yeah he was right, Other M sucks but I wanted to know why it sucks. What makes it tick. The knowledge is worth it to me.

[@lordspyro5983]

Isn't refusal of service a offense that can and lead to termination?

[@diaro]

You should have just walked out holding the games, you probably would have gotten away with that given it was the cashier's fault.

[@CinemaSeven]

Should've reported him.

[@alexkelsey3064]

He should have lost his job. When you work in a GameStop, you’re in the service industry. Even if you had asked his opinion, it wasn’t his job to try and dissuade you from buying the game.

[@DesignDoc]

@@CinemaSeven Not worth my time

[@Abandoned2377]

I love the wise Johnny looking at the young fresh out of college Johnny.

[@CrasherX2000]

It’s like current Caddy looking back at his past self

[@NeverSaySandwich1]

Fresh out of diaper

[@Sgt-Wolf]

Classic Johnny and modern Johnny. Johnny generations.

[@superscoobsses5633]

@@Sgt-Wolf underated

[@mylittleniglit8645]

Looking more and more like eggman. I love it

[@FlukerFiction091]

I enjoy how John's story criticisms apply to the structure of the story, rather than little minutia. It really highlights how Other M's story is fundamentally flawed, regardless of the lackluster translation.

[@TwilightWolf032]

Alright, I'm speaking as a Japanese to English/Portuguese translator here. The idea that Other M in Japanese does things differently is absurd to me. It's the same script, same intent. Japanese language is a lot more nuanced than English, so that might be the case as to why people say the Japanese version is better, but the intent behind the plot as a whole is still the same.

[@VunderGuy]

​@@TwilightWolf032 LOL. The japanese language is literally so primitive they don't even have easy plural endings on words. So no nosotros or houses in Japanese. Nuanced indeed.

[@TwilightWolf032]

​@@VunderGuy In Japanese, you have several different ways of saying "I" and "you" that indicate the character's upbringing, personality and worldview. For example, "watashi" is a very formal of saying "I", but girls short it to "atashi" to refer to themselves. But when the same two words are used by a young boy, it indicates that is an effeminate character. "Boku" is usually used by young boys or adult men in a non-professional situation, but young or young adult girls using the same word come off as cutesy. "Ore" is used by masculine and rough men, so you know a girl is bad news when she's using the same word, although the elderly women from some parts of Japan will also refer to themselves as "ore" due to local culture. Military people and nobles will choose to use "ware" to refer to themselves, or some might even use "wagahai" to show how extravagant they are. Or, in the case of countryfolk like Goku and Chichi, they go for "ora" instead. In the case of "You", there's "anata", which is rarely used out side of anime to refer to the 2nd person since it is now used to refer to one's husband; "anta" which is a rather rough way of refer to the person you're talking to commonly used by female characters, although not as rude as "omae", which is used by characters who believe themselves to be in a superior position to the person they are talking to. Or they could use the term "kimi", which is far more mild and impersonal. Although some would also use "kisama" or "onore" to indicate hostility towards someone, or "socchira" to indicate politeness. Yes, Japanese language is very nuanced. It does lack plural and a future tense form, requiring context to indicate those, but by no means is Japanese the opposite of nuanced.

[@northwindkey]

The biggest problem is Other M's story doesn't know what it's "about". There's no central theme/focus. Even the shoehorned in Motherhood theme isn't a core focus. Meanwhile take Fusion. Fusion is about one thing, hell, one WORD: "Consequences". Metroid Fusion is about consequences. Tf is Other M about?

[@TwilightWolf032]

​@@northwindkey You are only half correct in your statement. In order to understand what Other M is "about", you have to analyze the franchise as a whole and its popularity across the globe, including the reception of the Prime series. Metroid Other M was written and directed by Sakamoto Yoshio, co-creator of the series and present figure in all of the 2D titles at the time. However, despite being critically acclaimed, Metroid had never seen the same level of success as Mario and Zelda, and aside from the very first Metroid on the NES, sales struggled for each new title. Cue in the Texan Retro Studios, who, amid all development hell Nintendo put them through, not only did they manage to perfectly translate the core of the Metroid franchise to 3D, the game was also the best selling Metroid title ever! And on the console that nobody bought, nonetheless! The game was so successful Nintendo made two more sequels and later bundled everything together on the Metroid Prime Trilogy pack for the Wii with updated controls! Speaking of which, the Wii was supposed to come out without the Nunchuck extension, but Retro Studios, who had garnered respect from Nintendo due to their success, managed to convince the higher ups that the Nunchuck was necessary for the success of the console, since most games would be developed to have it in mind as a form of controlling character movement with the analog stick. Nintendo abided by and the rest is history. Now, let's go back to Other M. Other M was the ONLY Metroid title up until its release to ever get such a huge and competent marketing campaign. It was everywhere online, in gaming magazines, interviews being made, a website created to hype it up with small bits of information released at precise timing, and even TV ads were spreading out like Nintendo had never done to Metroid before. But all of the marketing campaign had shown one particular trait that, in hindsight, was a major red flag: the Prime games were seemingly being ignored by the commercials that detailed the history of the franchise. Cue game release and how do we play the game? With the Wii Remote sideways... hm... Well, you all know how the story goes, so I'm not gonna rethread it, but long story short, submissive Samus that gets a beating from Adam and says it's her fault for making him angry. A very different depiction from the strong and independent woman Retro (correctly, might I add) painted her as). Also, after Other M flopped so hard even Reggie went out of his way to do damage control but hit himself in his confusion, Sakamoto would go on in interviews saying that he would rather work on a game where Adam was the protagonist and refused to address the criticism his masterpiece received. But other developers that worked with him stated Sakamoto is a control freak, communicates poorly but is very strict about his vision to the point he even cried when he saw the game's pre-rendered cutscenes playing out in front of his eyes at some point during development. The composer for the piano soundtrack even stated she kept receiving feedback only in the form of "this is wrong" and not much else to go on every time she composed a new song for the title screen, so she had to be the one to decipher what he wanted instead, but no deviation was ever allowed. Looking at the situation surrounding the development of Other M and the history of the franchise being very successful away from Sakamoto, we can draw parallels with the story he wrote and figure out what it truly is "about". Other M is the story of Samus who, after leaving Adam's command comes back years later to submit herself to his every whim unquestionably, to the point he will put her in dangerous situations where she can't help but be hurt (the Hell Run sequence, for example) or otherwise be made to run in circles while Adam himself remains in a safe environment giving her orders and watching her every move. At the end Adam shoots her in the back for daring to activate her power-ups when she thought he wasn't watching her, and his big, masculine fatherly energy is so powerful, it easily disables her Power Suit (that has protection against low temperatures, by the way), leaving her gasping for air and vulnerable to a Metroid attack, from which he bravely saves her from but only AFTER he makes sure she knows she is in danger. Then Adam heroically sacrifices himself, filling Samus with the courage she lacked to finish the job he had tasked her with, with the music paying homage to HIS heroic deeds and even the lighting behind him creating a halo to showcase how virtuous of a person Adam Malkovich, beater of wives, truly is! Metroid Other M is about Sakamoto Yoshio being put in charge of the Metroid Franchise after it spent years away from his watchful eyes enjoying success he failed to bring to the series. He forced the development team to work without the Nunchuck Retro had championed for, creating this pseudo-NES style that forced players to interact with the game the EXACT way HE intended for. The game is extremely linear because Sakamoto doesn't want anyone deviating from the path he made to the point a game breaking glitch that can run an entire playthrough, and that can easily be activated by playing the game like a normal Metroid title, was not found until after release. The game has a Theater Mode, where you can watch all the cutscenes and skip the game, so Sakamoto's vision can be played without the player's interference! And at the end of the day, he made a game where Samus doesn't accomplish anything, where every single NPC in the room shoots the final boss while Samus remains still, unable to move because "You don't move unless I say so. And you don't fire until I say so.", proverbially shooting her in the back and leaving her gasping for air. But everything will be alright for the franchise, because now HE is back in control! Metroid Other M is "about" Sakamoto Yoshio making Samus his again.

[@BR-jw7pm]

I remember a BrawlInTheFamily comic where Samus is running through places and asking for authorization in dangerous situations, always being rejected. Punchline: it’s Adam in the suit who gets the point and Samus chuckles

[@smashmaster521]

I remember that one. I miss Brawl In The Family.

[@grantmoore8228]

@@smashmaster521 Of course you do. You got at least one eye and a heart!

[@hypotheticaltapeworm]

That's only something that works in the format of a comic lol, if that were voiced or acted the ending would be immediately given away. Interesting how the artist used the medium to their advantage like that.

[@maplemabel]

which comic # was it ?

[@BR-jw7pm]

@@maplemabel i forget, it’s been so long

[@Bluedino152]

I'm 15 minutes in and Johnny's "done with life" tone for this story summary is giving ME life

[@thetrophygamer3606]

Your leeching it off him

[@sonicyuuki2292]

From banging head on the wall to "This game isn't bad. Story sucks though", Johnny grew a lot wiser and somewhat forgiving (I said "somewhat", ok?) towards the game. That's what time does to you, and it ain't a bad thing. Good on you, John. I hope you're doing well 👍🏼

[@alimowla3204]

it also helps that this johnny exists in a time where there's a new and good metroid game that's also a sequel to fusion, rather than having this game be the last game in the metroid franchise.

[@StormsparkPegasus]

The game IS bad though. The controls are pretty much on the level of early 3D games on the 3DO before analog controllers were available. And it has all the depth of a phone game, the gameplay is incredibly repetitive, monotonous, and BORING. I could probably teach my cat to play it.

[@robertwyatt3912]

@@StormsparkPegasus no

[@johnathonturner2279]

@@StormsparkPegasus Nobody asked.

[@flarebreak]

@@StormsparkPegasus stop talking, the doors that way

[@YuuyaKZMI]

"Who is this version of Samus?" This line really got me thinking about something. There's a discrepancy between this Samus and other incarnations. Samus in Fusion is almost completely different. She doesn't refer to Adam as a father figure, rather a friend of hers, even post-"bad terms". In Fusion, she feels emotion towards the danger of the universe, not her own internal struggles. In Zero Mission, there are callbacks to Samus's past with _the Chozo_ as family, not Adam. Is Other M's Samus an imperfect clone of her a la Les Enfants Terribles in Metal Gear Solid? The fact that a lot of her memories also have discrepancies could add to this.

[@DeadweightLKS]

What's funny about the theory that the game was made to appeal to Japanese audiences and the talk of the "better Japanese script" is nobody seems to ask how Japanese players felt about it If you look it up, both fans and non-fans from Japan disliked Other M for the same reason that English-speaking audiences did

[@kingdomcome3914]

I find this interesting.

[@felipeaguena5289]

Does Samus still have to ask permission to Adam in Japanese? She still has a panic attack seeing Ridley for the 200th time? Then it also sucks

[@Mojo1356]

I feel that saying problems lying with localization is just an excuse at this point for video game writing.

[@victorteste5325]

@@felipeaguena5289 Yup. Even the video that "debunks" the English localization still makes it clear that most dumb plot points are intact in both scripts. To Samus freaking out over Ridley to the whole mess of plotpoints and overarching themes.

[@thelivingdrawing2262]

From what I hear, Metroid runs counter to the tastes of Japanese gamers (non-linear, minimalist storytelling, the Prime games are first person, etc). So, in trying to make Other M appeal to Japanese gamers, they made a game that appeals to nobody.

[@formula091]

Always found it strange how the Deleter subplot wasn't tied into Samus not being able to use certain abilities. Suit sabotage wasn't an option?

[@Underworlder5]

interesting interpretation. my preferred answer was adam simply asks that samus holds back her abilities until necessary for security reasons and she agrees. why she disables defensive features too? harder to justify, but maybe she just wants a challenge

[@formula091]

@@Underworlder5 Or perhaps mix the two ideas. Adam doesn't want Samus running around with her full kit because of potentially harming civilians/damaging valuable equipment/security concerns while having her suit upgrade fuckery coming from sabotage. Honestly, there are so many ways the limitations could've been reasonably justified and we got none of them.

[@vouvusbovus9100]

That's a way better reason mate.

[@johnleonard9102]

Considering the original Mother Brain created Samus' suit, it would have made sense if the MB clone on the ship remotely hacked her suit. Adam then tracks down a series of relays and gives their locations to Samus. Samus finds a relay, destroys it, and regains a specific ability. Would have made the Samus/Adam relationship much better, and much more sense why Samus doesn't have all her abilities at the start.

[@CheosgamerX-ik1kq]

I'm doing my best to hold myself from cracking a joke related to the deleter subplot but I can feel it slipping

[@PuppetMasterIX]

I just wanna point out that the Bottle Ship's distress signal is called Baby's Cry, and Samus explains the reason is because "its purpose is to draw attention." Like... okay... what signal ISN'T supposed to draw attention?!

[@maxspecs]

I mean the trick is it broadcasts on *all* frequencies, not just Galactic Federation ones.

[@CurtyTails]

What’s funny is Firefly had a similar deal in the first episode- “Cry baby cry-“ “Make your mother sigh-engaging the crybaby.” Using it as a means to get the feds off their tail while they lift cargo off of a dead ship in space.

[@niclaswa5408]

Just as useful as a “baby on board” sticker

[@orangeslash1667]

@@niclaswa5408 Funny Fact: Yoshio Sakamoto work on Tomodachi Collection right before woking on Other M. A former being a social game that was never localized and it sold well. It makes sense why Sakamoto really wanted to appeal to the Japanese.

[@harombee]

Lord forgive me. When other M was coming out,I remember it being everything I ever wanted before release. Seeing Samus in 3rd person and she had action game mechanics??? Oh I was so excited. *And* *then* *I* *played* *it*

[@ramonandrajo6348]

Play the Japanese version then.

[@jerryborjon]

@@ramonandrajo6348 - Why? So you can be disappointed in two languages?

[@googamp32]

@@ramonandrajo6348 The story would still be garbage.

[@okagron]

@@ramonandrajo6348 Johnny literally went into why going to the Japanese hardly makes a different because Sakamoto directed the english version as well. Meaning they are very similar.

[@diaro]

​@@okagron That makes no sense though, there are objective, huge differences between the two languages and how would Sakamoto even direct a language he doesn't speak? Something about that credit is very misleading.

[@felphero]

What really kills me is that, Metroid was directly based on the Alien franchise which has Ripley, one of the most badass female protags out there. Ripley basically takes no shit from others when it comes to doing the right/smart thing. The safety of herself and crew are above any monetary interest or orders. Now in direct contrast we have Samus dying of extreme heat conditions in the lava because Adam told her so.

[@tor2919]

Totally, Samus is shoehorned as a wimpy sobbing character who cries about “the baby” because “that’s how women are” according to the dudely dudes behind Other M. Let’s make this woman obey orders by the manly man Adam. So gross

[@andrewnigo61]

I know this comment is from a year ago, but wouldn't it make more sense to say Metroid was inspired by aspects of the Alien franchise rather than "directly based" on it? That makes it sound like Nintendo tried to rip off the movies with a video game which makes no sense. Also, I found out that the localized version of this game (and several other Metroid games apparently) played a role in the story for Other M coming out so bad, like the Japanese version making it clear Adam is doing a lot of what he does under the orders of a government entity of sorts whereas the English version makes it seem like it's all him.

[@CeHee123]

An action-oriented Metroid game with more story from the Ninja Gaiden team sounded like an awesome idea. It could have been like the Metal Gear Rising of Metroid. Too bad crappy gimmicks, bad pacing, alienating design and a horrific story, voice-acting and characterisation dampened it.

[@TimedRevolver]

I liked the design of Samus in Other M...and that's it. EDIT: And I mean the short-haired version, not latex suit Barbie.

[@dungeonmaster3464]

@@TimedRevolver People always complain about the "latex suit Barbie" thing, and to this day I'm still confused because that's what Samus always looked like. In every other game (baring the NES) she was always a well endowed lady with long blond hair tied back. And under her suit she always wears a skin-tight bodysuit or leotard.

[@HaplessNerd]

@@dungeonmaster3464 In the first two prime games, while she was still well endowed she also had a much more muscular and athletic appearance. She looked like she could be competing in the Olympics. However instead of sticking with that as graphics improved they went with more traditionally attractive "model" approach.

[@TimedRevolver]

@@dungeonmaster3464 It's the fact that they're emphasizing the suit and made her slim and 'endowed'. Before, she looked like someone who exercised frequently...which is expected of someone who exerts themselves like she does. Now, she literally looks like someone put a latex suit on a Barbie doll and said "That's good enough, let's get lunch."

[@smashmaster521]

@@dungeonmaster3464 What can I say? We're like Johnny in that we're simps for Amazonian Samus.

[@fillerpoint555]

I never got the whole “actually good in the Japanese version” thing. Look, I don’t know a single bit of the language, but even the worst translations are still based on _something_ and I doubt they pulled all of this game’s issues from thin air.

[@SirDanFilmsUnltd]

I feel like it’s less a case of “the story is good in Japanese” so much as it is a case of “the mismanaged localisation makes a flawed story worse”. There was a lot of nuance and context that was lost in translation, but fixing these issues doesn’t ultimately salvage the story, because there are still some strange creative choices.

[@Mekboy_ComputerMonster]

Terrible Story, Japan>Terrible Story

[@lynxfresh5214]

I think its a case of some people getting translations and localisation mixed up with each other. A translation is an one for one conversion from one language to another (With some creative liberties due to certain words/phases simply not existing in other cultures) while a localisation (roughly) keeps the base foundation but alters the structure to fit the social norms of a different country (Brocks infamous "jelly donuts" line from Pokémon being a prime example).

[@UltimaKeyMaster]

It's still not a *good* story, the only real difference is it actually gives a bit more reasoning behind Samus being an idiot: Yes, she's willingly being an idiot to get Adam to notice her to make him think about their past. And in the Japanese version, Power Bombs aside, he's not authorizing anything. He's just yelling at her to stop restricting herself when he sees she's not using something. There's a direct comparison using the full-length movie mode the game has where the translation of "authorizing" Missiles is just telling her to back them up, not turn them on.

[@esmooth919]

@@UltimaKeyMaster And that's why I prefer the Japanese version... But the story is still ultimately stupid.

[@AVGNROCKS1996]

The argument for the translation also falls flat because Metroid has always performed better in the West, so prioritizing getting the English dub working should be essential.

[@alexanderadams9058]

Fr. It makes no sense. Did the English translation team forget that Metroid was more popular? I kind of doubt it...

[@OsamuWuVT]

i would say watch gaijingoomba on this he actually gives really key points on the translation aspects

[@DirectorOfChaos9292]

@@OsamuWuVT Sakamoto HIMSELF directed the english dub! Shut up!

[@OsamuWuVT]

@@DirectorOfChaos9292 yes, i know that but even then theres something known as TONE for translation, theres a reason why a lot of things in terms of tone doesnt fit well translating from english to japanese and vice verse: Sarcasm being one thing; hence why i mentioned it to the first comment because everyone goes one way with it when there is a person who is a gaming youtuber and who's JOB it was to teach english in Japan and has mad 2 to 3 solid videos on this.

[@tanookijumpman1139]

@@OsamuWuVT The other poster claiming that you needed to shut up was totally unnecessary. While I mostly agree with Johnny this IS the authentic English translation of Other M (doesn't make it good though), it's also true to a limited extent that certain aspects of the Japanese script and VAs possess intangible qualities unable to be replicated for Western audiences such as the Japanese language itself featuring more concise words spoken much faster than can be accomplished in English and cultural barriers. What I'm saying is essentially a short summarization of what GaijinGoomba spoke of on the topic, but shaming people for bringing it up when this guy is extremely well informed of Japanese culture is sad. To reiterate, conceeding the game is marginally better in its Japanese translation doesn't automatically redeem Other M's script as a whole and shouldn't be viewed as apologetics to say that.

[@TheGoldenBolt]

I was typing this before that very kind shout-out, fuck. You nailed it near the start: Sakamoto screwed up, but I don't feel he deserves to be crucified for it over a decade later, especially as he's acknowledged many of those shortcomings and moved away from a day-to-day directorial role for the last two Metroid games. I get it, the game sucked to many #gamers and functionally killed Metroid for the better part of a decade - and I get it, Sakamoto's auteur vision probably should've been questioned more directly by higher-ups at Nintendo that had the pull to do so. Folks have every right to be upset if they spent full price on this mess of a game, BUT if you're the kind of person that still calls Sakamoto a fraud hack talentless loser on Twitter or wherever every time his name or Metroid is mentioned, even this far down the road...grow up and learn to have some goddamn empathy. I'm sure you haven't tanked a beloved franchise that you yourself may as well have created, but I'm also sure that you wake up in a cold sweat at dumb things you did 10 years ago. Mistakes happen, everybody gets _at least_ one pass, especially in a hyper-creative, hyper-stressful field where it's easy to get lost in the sauce.

[@MetroidLord99]

I would agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that he himself said if he had to do other m again he wouldnt change anything

[@TheGoldenBolt]

That goes back to empathy: Pride is a hell of a thing, especially in Japanese culture, double especially for public figures in _any_ culture. Admitting a failure publicly is hard, and in some cases it's career suicide. Admitting a multi-million dollar failure which itself followed your own cancellation of a project that was almost completely finished (Metroid Dread v1) would likely spell the end of your livelihood, with no chance for you to make it right. Whether he chose to step back back into a producer role or if he was forced to do so isn't known - but I believe it's in the very same interview where he said he wouldn't change anything about Other M, he also said he wasn't the right person to discuss directing Metroid or bringing it into other mediums such as film. Considering he'd wanted to push Metroid as a movie as far back as 1990 with Super, and considering that he's moved into a broader oversight role, leading to projects with equal levels of cinematic direction to Other M but _without_ Other M's emphasis on monologues - well, you do the math.

[@TheZebbga]

@@MetroidLord99 I mean even if he is proud of it and hadn't changed and would do it all again, it is no reason to bully the guy on Twitter.

[@giygas_9577]

@@TheGoldenBolt Well said. From my perspective, the man also directed Super (my favorite game of all time), Fusion, and Zero Mission. That's three amazing games, not to be invalidated by one less than amazing game.

[@isauldron4337]

@@TheZebbga you'd think people would have let it go after 10 years

[@benwasserman8223]

Well now that this hurdle is cleared, Metroid: Dread is right around the corner. Rejoice friends: we MADE it!

[@Mekboy_ComputerMonster]

*HADAR...* *SEN* *OLMEN*

[@natoriousthehopeful2786]

Nice 👍

[@giygas_9577]

I am SO bloody excited to finally hear his thoughts on it now that we've all had time for the game to stew in our heads. I've played it through like 5 or 6 times now. I hope his review is long!

[@matthewbuckley7757]

How do you feel that Metroid Dread is one of the nominees for GOTY?

[@natoriousthehopeful2786]

@@matthewbuckley7757 Incredibly happy 🤗

[@JomaXZ]

I found the retranslation interesting when I watched through it myself, but yeah, it doesn't magically make the game better just because the story is rounded out slightly. It IS better than the English final product, but not by much.

[@kingdomkey2262]

Not to mention it makes Samus come off as an idiot with that whole Varia suit thing with the orginal script.

[@JomaXZ]

@@kingdomkey2262 Yeah, that part is tied to her infantilizing herself (or whatever she is doing in her monologues) and trying to make Adam senpai notice her, or something like that. Other M really likes driving that Motherhood theme into the ground...

[@AlexRN]

The English version being “worse” was because Sakamoto the creator directly contributed to it despite him not speaking English. Johnny made the right call for this video.

[@kratosgow342]

@@JomaXZ it’s so much about making Adam notice but more like she tired of everyone see her as a child even after Super Metroid she couldn’t get that thought out of her head for some reason

[@JomaXZ]

@@AlexRN Yeah I know, I'm not faulting him for it. The English version we got doesn't even have dual audio, so it would be silly to say "The Japanese version is good so the game isn't THAT bad" when we can't even experience a proper translation without the internet.

[@MozillaVulpix]

It's definitely interesting going back to Other M's story after recently playing the remakes of the Famicom Detective Club games, which were also written by Sakamoto. The stories for those...aren't incredible, but they're written competently with clear themes and subplots that are answered in satisfying ways. So he even knew how to write mystery back in the 80's, and didn't do anything to screw the remakes up.

[@UltimaKeyMaster]

Hang on, if Sakamoto was able to write that shit back on the Famicom, how in the mother of FUCK did he think he'd get away with that Ridley scene when clearly the NES could've shown that?

[@MozillaVulpix]

@@UltimaKeyMaster I assume it's because the FDC games were inherently Adventure Games from the beginning and were built from the ground-up for that purpose. You didn't have to worry about having a player-controlled moving character or anything, all you could do was select options from a command window. But I have no idea how game development works and what's actually possible.

[@theskyknight1002]

@@MozillaVulpix You should look up "The Metroid Other M that never was" It's a lengthy video, but it makes it sound like the original story (while still quite flawed) wasn't as bad as what we got over here, and that the localization is actually responsible for a number of things not liked about the story, I didn't think it was a good story by any means, it's themes for what Samus had to grow past still don't work inbetween games 3 and 4, but it gave me a much better appreciation for what it sounded like Other M wanted to be. The video even has a link to an HD upload of the game's movie mode with the retranslated subtitles the guy who made the video did.

[@OnlineVideoSurfer]

@@theskyknight1002 That is a very good video in trying to clarify what the story was trying to convey. I don't think it saves the writing mind you, and some of it is still speculative I think. But I do think it potentially helps people understand how the flaws came to be, and what we possibly could have seen as far as Other M's story. And in that sense I do think it's worth watching for anyone that wants to dissect this game. Or, hell, possibly worth watching for anyone who wants understand how a series of small flaws in a story can collapse into a writing tragedy.

[@orangeslash1667]

@@UltimaKeyMaster Remember the FDC game were also written by Toru Osawa and Nagihiro Asama. Sakamoto wrote Other M by himself, with no one telling him is this a good idea?????

[@Khrene]

One easy fix they could've wrote in for the disabling of the Varia and Grav suit: "Samus, your Varia and Gravity suits emit high degrees of radiation, and were looking to bring back as many civilians and scientists as possible. Our soldiers are disabling their equivalents." As for the lava run, they could've had a hurt/exposed scientist (possibly with a failing varia suit) on the other side of the super heated room.

[@NombreGenerico89TF2]

I was thinking the same stuff during the story. Like how Samus couldnt use her upgrades because the space station was in very poor shape or it was easily prone to blow to space bits, so in order for her to use all of her weapons, the federation would make sure offscreen that they would reduce the risk by disabling faulty tech or shutting off some parts of the station. For example, in the lava run, she couldn't use the Varia suit because the temperature is too high for her to use it, so the federation would somehow try to seal some lava entrance so she could use the varia suit instead of relying on her normal suit because it was "the lesser of two evils".

[@Melkac]

Or just "Samus, I WILL disable your upgrades". That way the Varia suit being deactivated doesn't come off as Samus being an idiot, but Adam being an asshole.

[@goferinzero]

There's a mod out there that explains it away as a general recharge after overcharging from the hyper beam upgrade she got on super. Something along those lines. I'm fuzzy on it, but I remember that mod fixing a lot with the game.

[@SystemBD]

Mmm... I fear that decision would have introduced continuity errors across the franchise. Like when Samus hands over the baby Metroid to the scientist (in her full gear) at the very beginning of Super Metroid.

[@propheinx2250]

@@SystemBD or the sentient animals she saves while fully decked out.

[@BradTheDead]

Indeed, Sakamoto's more than made up for this game in my eyes.

[@Triforce9426]

Samus considering Adam a father figure has always confused me since she kind of had not one but TWO bird dads while growing up with the Chozo.

[@BlazetheCat130]

11 years since his old review of Metroid other M. And Johnny has grown alot since. My goodness I'm getting old.

[@Dragonsamuari]

"It's MAN!" Love that Sweet Home reference Johnny :P

[@misterzygarde6431]

For as much of a misstep this game was, I wouldn’t mind Team Ninja getting another go at a Metroid game, especially that they have the Switch and them having more buttons. Also imagine if Adam stopped Samus from deactivating her defensive upgrades. “Samus, I said to deactivate your weapons until ordered to use them, I didn’t say anything about the Varia suit.”

[@EmeraldLance]

I feel like TN gets an unfair brunt of the criticism for this game. The parts they touched (gameplay) works as well as it could given the limitation they were put under. The parts that everybody hates (the story and Samus's portrayal in it) were all due to Sakamoto. I definitely agree that they should be given another go.

[@TimedRevolver]

That was a terrible idea in and of itself. Why in the hell would any commander want someone with an arsenal like hers to basically shut all of it down? Would have made more sense to have her warned not to overdo the weapons when not necessary.

[@UltimaKeyMaster]

The funny thing is Adam didn't tell her to deactivate anything other than Power Bombs in the Japanese script. The order to not do shit until he says so was well AFTER she did it herself. So, you either get the English version where Adam makes her turn shit off, or the Japanese version where Samus is risking her life to make her Senpai yell at her.

[@SaiyanGamer95]

I would absolutely LOVE to see this game be released on Switch! I would buy it day 1!!

[@TimedRevolver]

@@UltimaKeyMaster Either way, it screws up what her character is meant to be. This is the second Japanese dev to do this. Koji Igarashi (IGA) made Castlevania: Lament of Innocence because, in his own words: "A woman can't be the first Belmont." Some devs seem to have a huge issue with strong female characters, so turn them into idiots seeking a man's attention, or just remove them from canon completely.

[@saltbaker8683]

Just like Ridley himself, *he ALWAYS comes back!*

[@JJ_R]

You haven’t played Dread yet?

[@HeroesRiseUp]

RIDLEY IS THE PURPLE GUY?!?!?!!?!?!

[@striker1079]

@@HeroesRiseUp that was also the first thing I thought when I read that comment.

[@shis1988]

@@HeroesRiseUp ew supremacist reference

[@DoctorMinjinx]

@@HeroesRiseUp Well, he IS purple You may be on to something

[@andrewbaxter64]

It's like what Johnny said, I think Other M would've been perfect as a prequel. That way, many things like Samus' need to please Adam, Adam's condescending attitude to a war hero, her PTSD at Ridley, and her overall inexperience would've been a lot more understandable. I think giving Samus PTSD is not a bad idea as it would make her more human, but this was not the way to do it.

[@isauldron4337]

Hah no If You want to make other m a prequel You have to rewrite pretty much everything

[@andrewbaxter64]

@@isauldron4337 I get that, but just keeping the essential elements I mentioned could still make it work

[@orangeslash1667]

@@andrewbaxter64 It's like Sakamoto wants to tell a big story but he's not very experienced in writing a good story outside (Who the Frog Bell Tolls).

[@tracyndiyob162]

had the same though when i 1st saw it's trailer in e3(especially the scenes of her on earth.) thinking it was going to be a prequel as it could've explained her attitude toward adam(just scrap the stupid heat section/shooting her in the back and give more to the other members as i loved anthony that i legit would love to see him return.) showing more of the 2 alongside her actual parental figures the chozo(really love her moments with them in the manga as it felt very nico robin esque at times.:3) and her overall inexperience starting out instead of being an superfluous idiot. think the ptsd would work if had been given buildup throughout showing samus thinking he was gone for good after encountering the "moogle and chocobo's one night stand" or not have her stand around enough that her teammate dies and show it affecting her after(like her reacting to a recreation of mother brain with how the baby risked it's life to save her sacrificing itself.)/even just a flashback to super metroid's story outside just the finale(show her reacting to ridley after having defeated him in nes/times he defeated him in snes.).

[@Bladezer3000]

On the translation, I'd say, that yeah a game translation must stand on its own, I do think knowing why a translation is the way it is, can help people better understand how something became bad, and find ways to criticise it, so the next product cam be better. Basically Other M is a game, where director should have trusted the translation team to do their job. While other m would still have problems, at least it's story would make more structural sense.

[@StormsparkPegasus]

The story is still bad even in Japanese, it's only slightly less shitty.

[@ramonandrajo6348]

@@StormsparkPegasus Nice try, dude. XD

[@victorhugocosta1127]

@@StormsparkPegasus yeah Japanese still has 90% of the English plot points and presentation. Aside from some lore recontextualizing and Samus' submission to Adam being softer, the Japanese script still suffers from this game's terrible narrative

[@Kingdom850]

I mean again, considering the same guy oversaw both versions of the game, it's not a surprise that it still sucks no matter what language you play it in.

[@ramonandrajo6348]

@@Kingdom850 Both versions? Really?

[@marshmardgames9884]

Would’ve been better story wise if Samas’s suit had all the abilities, but some kind of virus got into it and was preventing her from using most of her powers. Adam could’ve been connected to the suit and slowly fighting against the virus and unlocking powers as the story went on. Would’ve made the lava room much better story wise and just make Adam feel better as a character in general.

[@Tayvin4042]

And it would've connected better with the Deleter plotline and make him a more credible threat. Like 'damn, this guy can remotely hack Samus' suit?? That guy's dangerous!'

[@DemonofHell48]

An idea I had is the station is falling apart and being held together by a thread. So Samus has to limit herself while rescuing people and data. As more missions are completed more powers can be unlocked.

[@bdpickett]

Makes more sense than most other excuses why Samus loses her stuff at the start of the game and then regains the stuff somehow, plus copies of whatever stuff she didn't have on her at the time.

[@orangeslash1667]

@@bdpickett Funny Fact: Yoshio Sakamoto work on Tomodachi Collection right before woking on Other M. A former being a social game that was never localized and it sold well. It makes sense why Sakamoto really wanted to appeal to the Japanese.

[@DannyJS1]

Being a longtime viewer, I would like to see if Johnny still rates Other M higher than Prime 2, as that completely baffled me back in the day, especially since he said he hated it more at that time.

[@jerryborjon]

Excuse me, what did you say?????? He did *what?????*

[@Pwrplus5]

This sounds like forbidden knowledge I can not imagine a universe where he said that

[@gameman250]

@@jerryborjon You know it's kinda surprising that there's this divide over Prime 2, where most don't care for it but other love it so much, maybe even moreso than the first game. Me, I like the concepts, though in execution the whole Dark World element kinda makes the game drag, when you're spending 30 seconds in those light bubbles to recover the health you lost in the 5 seconds it took to dart between them.

[@jerryborjon]

@@gameman250 - It’s way more fun than you remember. There are enemies in those sections, you know. The mandatory drop in health that comes from darting through the evil smoke puts you on edge for those battles. Those monsters are way stronger than they seem.

[@giygas_9577]

@@Pwrplus5 He gave Prime 2 a 6/10 and said you're better off renting it. I'd definitely love to hear his thoughts on it now, but we'll have to wait until Prime 4 is about to come out.

[@andrewkos5560]

I really appreciate how much mileage you got out of the Samus thumbs down clip.

[@zaneheaston8254]

This game hurt the Metroid series more than Sonic 2006 hurt the Sonic series At least the lead up to Sonic 2006 made it obvious that it was going to be shit, that and 2006 didn’t start a 5-7 year hiatus for its series

[@lynxfresh5214]

(Looks at F-Zero).

[@GenerationZ313]

@@lynxfresh5214 Chibi-Robo Zip Lash anyone?

[@mjc0961]

That's just because SEGA craps out Sonic regardless of quality, they literally do not care. See Sonic Colors Ultimate for the most recent example. Oh boy I can't wait for SEGA to lie to us about how they're going to focus on quality with Sonic games again. That one never gets old. Also I don't think it's fair to say that Other M started a 7 year hiatus for its series. There was an 8 year gap between Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion? Did Super Metroid cause an even longer hiatus than Other M? Or maybe it's just that Nintendo putting Metroid on ice for a while is a thing they do regardless of how well the last game released was received.

[@Gnidel]

(Looks at Sonic Forces hiatus)

[@tripodranger7873]

@@mjc0961 I would say the gap proceeding Super comes from a completely different context. Before Super, Metroid had one game on NES and one game on Game Boy. It wasn't a hugely established franchise, especially compared to the likes of Mario and Zelda. There being such a long time after Super before the next game wasn't any more unreasonable than Kid Icarus having a long hiatus after its Game Boy game. The fact that Samus was included in the first Smash game is more of a surprise than anything. Compare it to when Other M was released. Metroid had two games on Gamecube, two games on GBA, and two games on DS (even though one was a pinball spinoff), plus already a previous game on Wii with re-releases of the two GCN games. It suddenly going on a lengthy hiatus, after having such a strong period of releases, is a lot more strange. Nintendo even made it clear that Other M's paltry market performance was making them go back and evaluate their values and priorities regarding the series. The fact it was such a high-production game and did as poorly as it did definitely had an effect on how Nintendo wanted to handle the franchise going forward.

[@Lego3400]

Apperntly in the Japanese version, Samus keeps the Varia suit off out of pure spite for Adam. Which actully makes her dumber then the english version I think

[@mistersonic93]

16:08 I been saying the same thing for years! I always felt that Other M was just a worst re-telling of Fusion. That's probably my biggest gripe with the game.

[@AkuTenshiiZero]

All I can say is thank God we got Metroid Dread to completely repair Samus as a character. She has so much personality through her animations alone, and it paints a completely different character than Other M.

[@anothenblue2630]

The funny thing is that it's essentially what she does in Other M when the story doesn't have her monologue for two hours about how firm Adam's buns were. She's the same killing machine that gets close and personal with enemies. Even when you fight Ridley and shoot him in the mouth, she remains calm and collected like it's an everyday affair. It makes the actual cutscene kinda jarring because she doesn't come off as angry at him or anything (though he does look beaten within an inch of his life).

[@Melkac]

I just hope they have her talk more in subsequent games, it really does feel like they chicken out on making her talk solely because of what Other M did.

[@anothergamer112]

@@anothenblue2630 "monologue for two hours about how firm Adam's buns were." That got a good chuckle out of me. Well done.

[@quint866]

@@anothenblue2630 Sorry to say but I humbly disagree. This was nessecary to Samus development. It doesent change that this "Less expereinced rookie samus" is not as cool as what we get later on but I appreciate Other M showing us what Samus was and how she became what she is now. You also cant exactly convey Samus is "Calm and Collected when shooting Ridley in the mouth" Theres no proof of that. For all we know in Metroid 1, 2, and Super she could have been terrified under that armor yet we wont know since she doesent give off any conclusive cues to being scared or calm

[@seanfisher6904]

@@quint866 Except Samus isn't a rookie in Other M, and "less experienced" is a relative term that's kind of meaningless without context. In the context of when it released, Other M was chronologically the second to last game in the series; taking place before Fusion but after every other game and the manga. Even now it's the third to last game chronologically and takes place well after the entire timeline's halfway point. How exactly is this game showing us "what samus was?" In comparison to what? Fusion, the game that takes place immediately after these events? We aren't seeing "how she became what she is now," because Other M takes place after the events that define Samus in audience's minds.

[@NidorinoAlliance]

I feel Sakamoto should be recognised for his high points, but also that this game’s different direction showcases his limited understanding of his own franchise and its main character. He’s steered clear of trying to delve deeper into Samus as a character since then and people have been happy with that, but that wasn’t because we don’t want that to happen. It’s because, when he does it, it becomes this lowkey sexist story of maternal instincts and her insecurities around the dad in her life.

[@isauldron4337]

Samus originally was mostly a blank slate It's just that a Lot of You had a Ton of preconceived notions of what she was Like don't take this the wrong way this is not an insult

[@isauldron4337]

No this comment shows people know little about The background supplementary things of metroid They never got that samus has been portrayed in a Lot of games and mangas as compassive and emotional Those mangas i just mentioned they were all written by DIFERRENT AUTHORS

[@victorteste5325]

Another case of creators following a good idea with terrible execution and then pulling back hard from it, because "they already made X idea, and people hated it".

[@orangeslash1667]

@@victorteste5325 Funny Fact: Yoshio Sakamoto work on Tomodachi Collection right before woking on Other M. A former being a social game that was never localized and it sold well. It makes sense why Sakamoto really wanted to appeal to the Japanese.

[@PianistTanooki]

Nintendo didn’t partner with Team Ninja because Nintendo R&D1 didn’t have experience making a 3D Metroid, but more so because of the fact that the Nintendo R&D1 team was dissolved when Iwata restructured the company in 2004. Many of the key people of R&D1 were scattered across a new division called Nintendo SPD (which had since dissolved and merged with the EAD team in 2015 into “Nintendo EPD”). The SPD team was the Nintendo division in charge of managing second-party developers. Sakamoto was appointed the head of one of the SPD groups. Basically, the only real reason why Sakamoto had to seek outside help was because he didn’t have a proper staff anymore. He has to partner with an outside studio to make a new Metroid game. This is also why we’ve not seen a new Wario Land game made in-house by Nintendo. The Wario Land (and Super Mario Land) games were made by R&D1 as well.

[@DaBlueJay2001]

I remember when I was 10, I was scared of clicking the thumbnail because it was a realistic scary space game, 10 years later as an adult, nostalgia hits. Thank you John

[@OliverKlozzofff]

14:28 nail on the head my dude. My biggest gripe with Other m was always how uninvolved it makes the player feel for most of the bigger parts of its narrative. Dealing with the metroids is usurped by Adam. Stopping the bottleships colision is handled by Anthony. We don't directly confront MB outside of cutscenes. And other story beats like The Deleter or Samus' newfound Ridley ptsd are dropped without any resolution. All and all just a very blueballing experience.

[@skyhawk9710]

The 3 important things in this game: 1. Adam 2. The Baby 3. Plasma Beam

[@jacobmonks3722]

You forgot Anthony

[@giygas_9577]

For some reason I got a bunch of laughs out of how many times Johnny called Samus stupid, an idiot, or a dipshit.

[@vouvusbovus9100]

This game is the reason I am alright with not explaining lost weaponry.

[@Armydillo62o]

Can we talk about the amazing page at 12:00 ? Samus has located the target and demands payment. Adam says it’s too much, and that his platoon will take care of it instead. So what does Samus do? She blows it to smithereens on the spot and forces Adam to pay up. THATS Samus Aran. When she’s faced with an issue, she blows it up, even if that gets her into trouble later. They got it right the first time, still baffling that they took this step back.

[@neroultimate1]

Sure the story wasn’t up to snuff but I really like the approach they went with this game. In terms of gameplay.

[@kurtwerber8729]

I mostly agree. The gameplay would need a lot of work to make it more engaging and put exploration at the forefront, but I definitely agree it was a good test of a potential new formula for the main series

[@ShermTank7272]

I like the gameplay in concept, but 3D movement with a D-pad should be an absolute no-go

[@memnarch129]

Gameplay fine I can concede that. But thats not where the arguement usually occurs. Its in whether it is or is not Cannon to the Metroid story arc, now being the OG Metroid to Dread. And sorry people who say "But there is a Other M title card in Dread so its Cannon". No its NOT Cannon. The story is so absolutely brain dead compared to every other Metroid that I wont sully the series by allowing THIS to be cannon. So no its NOT cannon, end of discussion.

[@phil2160]

As someone who has trouble navigating in first person game, it's certainly more appealing

[@orangeslash1667]

@@memnarch129 Fun Fact: Samus and Ridley's designs in Smash bros are inspired by the Other M design. So Other M does serve a purpose!

[@carbodude5414]

Unsurprisingly for a game that had Team Ninja's help, we're treated to these lovely moments of empowerment from one of the strongest female characters in video games: - Samus, even in armor, is made shorter than she is in previous games so that the men, especially Adam, could figuratively and literally look down on her - The Varia Suit, now tied to Samus's emotions, is frequently turned off whenever Samus experiences extreme emotions as if to say that women are "too emotional" - Samus's entire character arc is all about her fixation on an older and emotionless man who treated her, at best, like a co-worker - Young Samus being anti-authority and constantly disagreeing with Adam is framed as a _negative_ trait - Samus willingly lets Adam micromanage her Varia Suit, an *extension* of herself, in order to earn his approval - Samus is made to look like a scared child when confronted with her archnemesis, that she has defeated regularly before without issue, so that she could be saved by a man - The game repeatedly hammers you with the message that "women should have babies", in a series where its protagonist is a woman who is clearly content with her successful career

[@jacobmonks3722]

That second one seems like a reach, but yeah...it still looks really bad.

[@Bucket_Buffoon]

@@jacobmonks3722 Samus, prior to Other M, was put under not once but *TWICE*, both by LITERAL SPACE CANCER, and by John Carpenter's Ditto invading her suit. BOTH times, her suit stayed on, despite being near comatose on both occasions. It's been noted to essentially function as an added organ for Chozo, hence the biomechs that need surgery to be modified. Yet in Other M it flies off on multiple occasions in the heat of the moment for the sake of fanservice. Because Team Ninja- I can't even blame them for this can I Sakamoto approved everything.

[@jacobmonks3722]

@Bucket Buffoon I meant the suggestion that they are saying something about women being too emotional. Not the part about it making no sense in universe, which I agree with

[@LunaGropeAnnelotte]

You sound like an angry feminist. Holy hell, i could feel the passive aggresiveness from this comment from a mile away.

[@Antonio-is2cn]

Theory: Samus is a anime magical girl?

[@theprodigaltraveler6942]

I don't know, from what I've seen Sakamoto seems to be stubbornly holding out that Other M was good and misunderstood, even if he still learned from it and isn't letting it happen to new titles.

[@kingdomkey2262]

He can think whatever he wants, just keep those thoughts out of any future Metroids please.

[@brandonlyon730]

I’m sure a lot of artists feel that way after spending years to develop there big “masterpiece”, and then have it be constantly getting shit on. They might move on from it but it probably still eats at them to have in there eyes there best work to be criticized like it is.

[@UltimaKeyMaster]

I'd like some actual proof of that so this doesn't come off as being salty about something 11 years later.

[@darthcerebus]

The concept is good, there ARE good points in the story to consider, but overall there's a lot more that drag it all down entirely.

[@LoliconSamalik]

Once again, as stated earlier in the video, there's a language issue with the script. What could be praiseworthy in Japanese got lost in English. So grains of salt are needed here.

[@toanuva6178]

I feel like they should've leaned into a similar vibe as Roy Mustang with Adam, since on the surface at least both characters have a similar kinda synergy between them and their Blonde rebellious subordinate (heck the bounty part sounds pretty accurate to what Roy would do)

[@Hyper_Drud]

At least Hawkeye got to smack Mustang when he said some really stupid stuff.

[@toanuva6178]

@@Hyper_Drud was referring to Him and Ed, but I guess he has two Blonde Rebellious Subordinates

[@Hyper_Drud]

@@toanuva6178 ahh, my mistake. Now that I think about it, Riza is less rebellious and more only puts up with so much of his lapses of insanity.

[@ibraheemali7028]

Fma reference! men of culture i see.

[@doubleasworkshop1692]

Ed ain't blonde. He has golden hair like all his xerxian ancestors :v

[@Delzethin]

Other M, a.k.a. the game where Sakamoto pulled a George Lucas and didn't understand when to rein himself in and listen to someone else.

[@michaelrhett4958]

Other M SHOULD be called Metroid: Adam’s Authority

[@ramonandrajo6348]

Play the Japanese version then.

[@kingdomkey2262]

@@ramonandrajo6348 I'm not authorized to play that version.

[@michaelrhett4958]

@@ramonandrajo6348 Nah

[@michaelrhett4958]

@@kingdomkey2262 Same

[@TheZebbga]

@@ramonandrajo6348 Why? The gameplay is still shit (to me) and the Japanese version doesn't fix that.

[@megasoniczxx]

I'd really like it if this gameplay style could be revisited in the future with Team Ninja behind the helm again. It just has such a fun and kinetic energy to it that only a developer like TN can really deliver and I think it fits pretty well with the franchise. With some updated controls, actual level design to explore and combat that has a bit more depth to it I think this could turn into something truly great.

[@RH_54321]

I feel the same way. I love the Ninja Gaiden and Nioh games as they're fun 3d action games. Replaying the Ninja Gaiden games with the collection and replaying Other M just made me all the sadder with how that turned out. I'd love to see TN get another chance especially since it seems like Sakamoto has since learned his lesson.

[@sonicfan2403]

Unfortunately I doubt Sakumoto probably will ask them again due to the reception.

[@orangeslash1667]

@@RH_54321 I think I may have found out why Metroid Other M was not great, It's mostly because it was made by Team Ninja. What was the biggest complaint about Other m outside of the story, it was the fact that the game was linear. The problem is Non Linear games are not easy to make, which means that the game might be delayed. The second problem is that Team Ninja is known for Ninja Gaiden and Dead or Alive. So delaying Other M would mean delaying Ninja Gaiden 3 and Dead or Alive 5, especially since Yosuke Hayashi worked on all three of those games. So it makes me question if delaying Other M was an option???? Mercury Steam on the other hand is thankfully a different story, they were originally hired to make 3d Castlevania before Konami put all of their focus on pachinko machines and mobile games. This meant that Mercury had nothing to work on and that's when Yoshio Sakamoto came in and asked them to make a Metroid game. The point is unlike Team Ninja, Mercury can be trusted to delay Metroid because they were less busy.

[@legendarycryptid2629]

0:02 Never thought you could compare that event to Black Friday, but it fits.

[@Silent_Mochi]

The wildbeest/stampede: All Gamers Mufasa: Limited ps5 stock

[@Underworlder5]

@@Silent_Mochi i prefer waiting until the hype dies down. the PS4 works just fine

[@Silent_Mochi]

@@Underworlder5 I already got a ps5, im just making a meme hehe

[@stevenhedge2850]

Johnny, I am glad you brought up this constant reference to the Japanese translation. Ever since it came up, everyone always seems to use it as a way to excuse the bad writing. You are right, Sakamoto directed the English version. that's how he wanted the story told. All the Japanese translation does is add in just a little more context, but not enough that it completely fixes the entire story. The problems are still there.

[@esmooth919]

I don't disagree, the story still sucks, with all its head-scratching moments within. I just think the Japanese versison is a hell of a lot more tolerable, and I am _not_ one of those "subs over dubs" dudes.

[@orangeslash1667]

@@esmooth919 Funny Fact: Yoshio Sakamoto work on Tomodachi Collection right before woking on Other M. The former being a social game that was never localized and it sold well. It makes sense why Sakamoto really wanted to appeal to the Japanese.

[@VoidedMirror]

A 3D third person Metroid game is a good idea. Just not in the way it was implemented in Other M.

[@Destroyah5000]

I felt that look of long-awaited content in Johnny's face just as he walks away with Metroid Dread in hand.

[@LeafRazorStorm]

"Other M was Sakamoto's baby" Wait... THE baby?????

[@googamp32]

@@ramonandrajo6348 You're a bot, aren't you?

[@UltimaKeyMaster]

...I didn't even think about that joke.

[@ramonandrajo6348]

@@googamp32 Try again.

[@TwilightWolf032]

Some people say Samus has more of a character and changed dialogue in the Japanese version. I work as a Japanese translator and saw no difference between the two versions. If anything, JP Samus sounds more natural because Sakamoto does speak the language and got her to not sound like a robot in the original language, but that's just it. The dialogue is still the same. The intent behind it is still the same!

[@ElvenRaptor]

Finally, someone says it.

[@TwilightWolf032]

@@ElvenRaptor And I don't know who spread the idea that Samus had more of a character in the JP version, but possibly it was someone who understands Japanese nuances and attributed that with her being more fleshed out as opposed to that being the inherit differences between Japanese and English.

[@ElvenRaptor]

@@TwilightWolf032 I had a feeling that was the case.

[@orangeslash1667]

@@ElvenRaptor Funny Fact: Yoshio Sakamoto work on Tomodachi Collection right before woking on Other M. The former being a social game that was never localized and it sold well. It makes sense why Sakamoto really wanted to appeal to the Japanese.

[@ElvenRaptor]

@@orangeslash1667 Yes, but a series with a large international fanbase like Metroid requires a very different approach. Thankfully, Sakamoto seems to have realized what the majority of the fanbase wants from Samus Aran as a character.

[@salarycat]

I was binge watching the Johnny vs Metroid series as you uploaded this, nice timing!

[@seansachs6105]

Very glad to see the return of the "man!" sting chord. One of my favorite gags.

[@t.funkthecoolmunk5472]

7:33 You heard of Negative Nancy and Ambivalent Agnes. Now get ready for… Positive Patty

[@selder_7]

It’s amazing how a game like Dread does so much more with the character with so little

[@isauldron4337]

Politely disagree Dread samus

[@solidskullz5736]

Oh boy the infamous entry. I remember watching my friend play this and how pissed he was with the final boss

[@shis1988]

@@ramonandrajo6348 what Johnny said here. Weebing won't help this game.

[@mjc0961]

Which final boss? The Metroid Queen, where if you didn't play Metroid 2 and already know that you need to use Power Bombs when you get swallowed, you die and have to redo the whole thing? MB who you never actually get to fight because they off her in a cutscene? Or Phantoon, the secret final boss?

[@lynxfresh5214]

It's seems to be the status quo that every long running videogame franchise needs to have that ONE game that's either bad and/or controversial.

[@GenerationZ313]

@@lynxfresh5214 you mean like Sonic 06, Zelda II, Animal Crossing Amiibo Festival?

[@dukemon6163]

@@lynxfresh5214 I wonder what would be Mario's controversial game, the real one, not a meme joke.

[@Wayneisboss]

Glad I'm not the only one making the Fusion comparison, it really is bizarre how similar the narratives are in some ways while managing to be in opposite worlds of quality

[@jaggedbrace1263]

I like how in the post game Ridleys corpse is gone, implying it was moved to BSL where you see him in Fusion.

[@JacktheLightningRipper]

You handled your own feedback and criticism towards the game way better than almost everyone else I’ve seen handle theirs towards it, some very recently. Most people completely let their feelings get in the way almost like they want to be angry because anger gets clicks, or completely make Sakamoto look untrustworthy just because he didn’t do that well with one game, which is just a terrible thing to do. Other M is absolutely flawed at the end of the day but this was a much better dive into it.

[@BugsyFoga]

Honestly, if someone was developing a series for this long they were bound to slip up at some point, and that’s ok, cause it helps you learn from those mistakes and improve for the better.

[@sebastiancintron29]

I'm just glad Sakamoto is one of those who learns from their mistakes.

[@theotherjared9824]

The worst part about Other M is that the final product is technically perfect. There were no major development hurdles or controversies pre-release. This was the team's uncompromised vision they saw from beginning to end. You have to respect the game for that, but it also makes the problems that much worse. The game works as intended and the crippling problems it has were intentionally created to be that way, and conceptual issues like those can't ever be fixed.

[@TheSegaKoolaid]

I remember getting this game while on a family trip about 9 years ago and for some reason I was super excited to play it despite not having much experience with the Metroid series. I never got too far in the game, either. One thing I love about the game though is the box art, always thought it looked cool.

[@RiderOmega]

I think part of the reason people bring up Other M's translation issues so much is that with Sakamoto not knowing English but having taken such an important role in it, it is very likely he prevented his own vision from being properly executed. Languages are skills too and they're very important for localization and him not knowing English would impede his ability to execute his own vision in the English version.

[@Spiderdude93]

That same situation happened with the original Resident Evil. The director didn't know a lick of english but still directed the pronunciations and delivery of the lines on how he thought sounded good and not on how naturally it would sound to an english speaker. Samus speaks like a robot because Sakamoto probably thought that sounded good and didn't know how stiff she sounds to us.

[@jeremyabbott4537]

Any cutscene without Anthony is a cutscene not worth watching

[@Hc2p3n4t4rp]

For some reason, when I saw Johnny holding the Metroid Dread box, I saw his as Kuma from One Piece

[@axelwoni.m.8940]

I literally just wanted this video to come out not because I wanted to see Johnny revisit Other M, but because now the Dread video is right around the corner

[@icedcapplord710]

How we went from a bunny to a fucking pterodactyl with laser breath is the real wtf moment of Other M lol

[@ProjectJ007]

3:20 my favorite somecallmejohnny out of context clip

[@Jackelbeaver]

Something that made my playthrough of Other M much more enjoyable was playing it in dolphin where i could just bind everything to a controller and just play it like a normal game. (I even used a mapping that i've used in every metroid game since playing am2r, some of that being the result of learning how to do fancy stuff in joytokey but hey...super metroid with a missile hold and a morph ball button feels damn good.) My controls in Other M are bound as followed: Y: Shoot B: Jump A: Morph Ball X: Concentration + Recharge L: Free Aim Type 1 (Snap to Center) ZL: Free Aim Type 2 (Drag Cursor) R: Search View/Missiles Hold + Free-Aim Type 1 ZR: Sense Move Missiles are hold R and press Y. The cursor starts at screen center so it's actually fast and easy to use missiles during action seamlessly, making it feel good to use every time. L and ZL lock you forward facing, but R allows you to rotate your view freely. If i need finer aim i can just also hold ZL to drag the cursor around slower for investigation segments. X works by just combining the Concentration inputs into a single button. When you need to heal or refill missiles, just get out of the way and hold X to bring your shit back. Feels snappy and easier to integrate into your fights than raising your arm up IRL. ZR, because of how I rigged it in Dolphin, actually has a drawback for if you mash it. If you miss the dodge timing, Samus freezes in place and raises her arm cannon for a half second as a failed dodge input. It can also be used in first person mode to backflip when the visor turns green (otherwise she just shakes her arm cannon). You can still tap the dpad/stick relentlessly if you want (Dolphin makes it easy to use both, though you have 8 directional movement lock with no sensitivity, but it's better than nothing). It also makes the counterattack charges alot easier to pull off, which I think is a good tradeoff for having dodge be slightly more timing intensive. (Holding shoot while dodging with a separate finger) All in all, it's a pretty solid way to play the game and just makes it a funner experience overall. ---------- Story wise, I do think they fail in alot of ways and don't followup on manga stuff well enough. Because we didn't get the manga, people didn't realize the first shot of the game was showing her infusion of chozo dna, making it more than JUST a heavy handed baby metaphor, as it's showing her remembering her beginning as a chozo warrior when she thinks she's about to die fighting mother brain. Because that context is missing, the secondary theme of the scene becomes people's observed primary purpose of the scene, making it entirely cheesy, rather than a scene that suits multiple purposes. I think one of the things they were trying to go for, having looked at aspects of the Japanese version, is that they wanted Samus to be in a state of self doubt, seeing her return mission to Planet Zebes as a failure of her own ability. She fails to secure her target (the baby metroid) and is unable to even defeat Mother Brain using her own abilities. Had this been emphasized properly in the localization, it could have given the script we got a little bit more nuance, as Samus would actually be going through being celebrated as a hero for what she sees as a failure, personally. The authorization thing, I think, could have been handled better if Samus's suit was damaged from the fight with mother brain and the use of the hyper beam function. Having Samus trust her suit repair protocol management directives to Adam could have been seen as more of a personal connection mechanic, with Samus focusing on more important things than prioritizing which repair system gets self-repair prioritization first. It could have lead to anticipation as other suit functions appear in your menu with a completion bar so you as a player would be looking forward to the moment when the feature is finally ready to be used, and it would lead to a different take on the Sector 3 moment where Adam could be all "I'm redirecting your suit repair systems to prioritize Varia Suit functionality. I would normally advise against you going into Sector 3 without a functional protection system, but we need to prioritize the mission. I trust you to make use of your quick repair systems (Concentration) when needed until your environmental protection systems are online. Proceed with the mission, Lady." And then when the boss starts Adam could immediately radio in saying "Samus, the Varia Suit is back online, activate it now!" and it would make it feel like they're a team that are reasonably relying on each other, where Samus is doing what she can with what she has, and Adam is helping out from a technical perspective to improve mission efficiency. It'd reinforce him as a perfect military mind and father figure to Samus without feeling like she's a submissive, helpless idiot. Their strengths would be reinforced and they would have a natural gameplay connection that makes the player look forward to the next time they hear from Adam, because (without changing game design) he would be helping the player, rather than hindering them. Another problem is that the ice resistent metroids are handled in such an unclear and clumsy way that the player isn't likely to even realize that the metroids in the metroid queen fight are freezable until they've died a few times. What the game needed to do would be to let you into Sector Zero, have the unfreezable metroids show up AFTER Samus has defeated one or two normal metroids on the way there (as a confidence booster) before tearing you down with the experimental strain of unfreezable metroids (with a different visual design to distinguish them) ambushing Samus deep into Sector Zero and pursuing her as she is forced to escape, with Samus barely making it out of Sector Zero before running into Adam AFTER realizing the danger of the threat he sacrifices himself to destroy. It would be more of a tragedy and be able to reinforce how much (in my earlier change suggestion) you would have depended on Adam directing suit repairs, as the remaining suit functions would just recover at a flat rate every time you check back in after a major event, leaving the player feeling like they lost a mechanical benefit, reinforcing the loss of the Adam as a personal connection from Samus's perspective. Making the player feelings align and parallel what Samus is supposed to feel is how you fix this messy section of the game, I feel. The last thing I want to touch on is that the PTSD could have been handled better. Alot of people misunderstand it as just fear, when it's more complex than that and a result of other factors in a person's psyche coming together to bury complex emotions. Considering how much time we spend in Samus's head, they dropped the ball in terms of selling this as being a more complicated and interesting moment for Samus. What could have been the frustration at being unable to put the past behind her (as Ridley just KEEPS finding a way to haunt her despite her watching him die for good in Super) could have actually given depth to that hard exterior as her actions to fight it prove fruitless after having thought she'd finally defeated those demons once and for all, only for it to just show up right in front of her yet again. There's a way that scene could work as a Samus who has multiple missions and Ridley fights under her belt, but it's definitely not so in the way they handled it. Other than that, the two endings of the game is weird because the Phantoon boss has no buildup (despite Phantoon seemingly having connections to powerful psychic beings like Mother Brains dying), despite being one of the funnest fights in the game. Maybe there would be a way to have this Phantoon fight represent Samus fighting MB after you lock on to her (as a weird mental space to have a cool fight in) and then after MB is dead and Anthony shows up to escort Madelith Bergman, Samus says she has one last thing she needs to do and you make the trip back to get Adam's helmet, but then when you do, Anthony radios you that the other Federation Group rigged the space station to self destruct and to double time it back to the ship, allowing you to still have the kind of cool Zero Suit escape sequence and then still end the game on the actual ending instead of the weird long first ending then second ending thing we have.

[@harlannguyen4048]

It's possible that Phantoon IS MB. In the Japanese manual for Super Metroid, Phantoon is mentioned to be the first Mother Brain's lingering spirit.

[@KeijiNoSora]

Johnny: you can get the game dirt cheap now Links crossbow training: *FINALLY A WORTHY OPPONENT, OUR BATTLE WILL BE LEGENDARY!!*

[@smashmaster521]

You can get it dirt cheap, but do you really want to?

[@CyberDragon10K]

@@smashmaster521 Exactly. I saw it for $6 CAD once and didn't even _think_ about dignifying it for use as a drink coaster...

[@googamp32]

@@smashmaster521 If you want to find all the copies and destroy them so they can no longer hurt anyone.

[@King_Luigi]

_"I don't even know who you are!"_

[@smashmaster521]

@@King_Luigi You will.

[@shadeknight6537]

Just to very briefly touch on Fusion's translation, it's less that things got muddied in the water and more that the script had to be simplified to fit in the cartridge, as English isn't as terse as Japanese, which led to certain nuances being lost. A more extreme example is Mega Man Battle Network 6 - in that game, an entire post-game area was cut in the English version. The reason? The English script would not have been able to fit otherwise. Honestly, my biggest gripe with Other M's story, once you look past how absolutely pointless it feels, is the reveal that a faction of the Feds was cloning Metroids because it undermines the reveal in Fusion. To me, Other M's biggest sin as a story is that absolutely nothing happens - zero progress into the plot is made, and the characters are essentially the same at the end as they were at the start. It is completely forgettable. Lastly, from what I've heard, Dread has been doing pretty well in Japan.

[@BenBoyee]

"Point-Blank Love" sounds like a hit single from the 80's or a damn catchy OP for an anime

[@zeroXshinobi]

Nothing better than waking up on a Saturday morning and watching Johnny. Thanks for the content dude it’s pretty comforting.

[@PainCausingSamurai]

I love how clone Ridley is handled in this game from what I've seen.

[@sussy3778]

This game's story and stuff with Adam made me think the unthinkable... it made me think Samus is a simp.

[@Mekboy_ComputerMonster]

Dear _GOD..._

[@brandonlyon730]

She was apparently even worse about it in the original Japanese translation of the game.

[@sirhenrymorgan1187]

@@brandonlyon730 “Notice me senpai!”

[@orangeslash1667]

@@sirhenrymorgan1187 Funny Fact: Yoshio Sakamoto work on Tomodachi Collection right before woking on Other M. The former being a social game that was never localized and it sold well. It makes sense why Sakamoto really wanted to appeal to the Japanese.

[@TheTrueKnight01]

Get someone who looks at you the way Johnny looks at metroid dread at the end.

[@CrasherX2000]

8:07 Loved the return of this joke

[@FletcherReedsRandomness]

2010 Johnny: I hate this game! Also 2010 Johnny: I’ll give it a 7/10.

[@BH-98]

I still can’t believe he gave it a higher score than Prime 2.

[@SnipeMD]

Bit of a correction: Samus doesn't actually have any inner monologues in Other M. She is recounting her events after the fact like she's writing an entry in a journal or giving a after-action report to a Galactic Federation official. Every time Samus is seemingly going into a self-monologue, she's actually talking in the past-tense about the events that happened in the main game while heading back to Bottle Ship for the post-credits section, which is the point in time she is currently talking from

[@KingCasual1986]

The only thing I really like about this game was the ending cutscene where Samus had her hair let down. She looks absolutely STUNNING with her hair down!

[@Fjaloeat1]

"James, the dude with the evil mustache," Oh god you're so right I never even thought of it that way but it's true.

[@GameGod77]

If you've seen the DYKG video on cancelled metroid movies, you'll know that Other M essentially came about when Sakamoto was asked by potential film directors "What is Samus' personality and backstory?" and he didn't really have an answer so wanted to tell that story himself.

[@UltimaKeyMaster]

But...but the manga...the manga already DID. God, it's so weird how Other M piecemeals the manga story only when it helps Sakamoto's weird vision back then.

[@lylatfox4]

@@UltimaKeyMaster manga/books and film are inherently different mediums so I can understand not wanting to go 1-1 with it, but he probably struggled with what he wanted to keep and wanted to change, like alot of the story made sense if it took place before or even right after zero mission, and since the last Metroid game that wasent prime 3 was zero mission he probably didn't want yet another game that didn't technically move any story forward since the remake of the 1st one. It might also make sense if he thought that concentrating on more human characters would look better for producers at the time looking to make Metroid into a movie, which would explain the lack of intelligent aliens and no mention of chozo, but a dramatic increase of humans, I mean even mother brain got a human form.

[@DirectorOfChaos9292]

And he failed. HARD

[@soopakoopa6461]

I don't know how many people here are subscribed to the same channels, but I'm suddenly remembering the geek critique's tirade about how Samus had not one, but TWO father figures among the chozo before she met Adam.

[@jacobmonks3722]

3 if you also include Rodney Aran.

[@leethompson-kolar6333]

17:47 That message on the right... The Chozo have such a way with words.

[@henrysecen1436]

I've been watching you since middle school dude. You're an iconic youtuber in my heart bro.

[@flyingbatteryzone6011]

it’s been more than 10 years. god i remember when your video first came out.. i feel so old

[@SatansBestBuddy1]

14:10 - You forgot to mention, not ONLY does Adam shoot Samus in the back, SHE THANKS HIM FOR IT. I use this specific scene as the single bullet point anyone would ever need to understand how screwed up the story is in this game. It's just everything the game does wrong boiled down to a single cutscene, where Samus is shot in the back and THANKS HIM for shooting her in the back. I remember being insanely hyped for this game before it came out, I even got Ninja Gaiden 2 and played that to death so I could get a feel for the combat because *of course* Team Ninja would develop a complex combat system, that's what they *do*, that's why Nintendo hired them. And the first time I picked up the game you could definitely feel it's using the same engine as Ninja Gaiden, just from the way Samus moves and turns and jumps, it's almost the exact same speed and grip that Ryu has, so that just made me more excited to get further into the game and really unlock the combat's potential. And then I finished it. And there was no potential to unlock, the combat you mastered in hour one is exactly the same as the combat in hour ten, which is a far cry from basically any other stylish action game out there where typically the first playthrough is just a warm up for the depth the combat system has waiting for you. This system, as is, has no depth, no real depth. I suppose you can learn how to get better as switching to missile mode to kill things faster, but there is no timing to dodging to learn, you can just button mash, there's no aiming to manage, it's all auto-aim, and no rewards waiting for players who did want to learn the system and get better at the game, beyond just finishing fights faster. This game has less depth to it's movement and combat than any given 2D Metroid, which were not exactly high bars to clear, at least not until Dread. And the story had me seeing red every time this game was mentioned for at least a decade. Thankfully now I can just say "it's bad" and move on.

[@theavatarofinsanity]

The footage at 19:30 pretty much sums up what most of the combat in this game amounts to. Dodge - Charge Beam - Repeat.

[@AthrunTalan]

That Dread special edition in the background *chef kiss*. I have my own copy, its a beautiful package.

[@bippabidoof3004]

I just realized how ironic it is that Samus left the Federation but still literally works for them as a freelancer because of that bank

[@StardustWhip]

Y'know, every time I see discussion about Other M, I start to regret even more how, as a kid, I decided this would be my jumping-on point for the Metroid franchise.

[@Hyper_Drud]

On the bright side, nowhere else to go but up.

[@AuraNova26]

What is the music playing as Johnny is doing the introduction about Other M? It sounds really nice.

[@victorgonzalez6887]

Yay! Happy Tuesday when there's a Johnny video!!