E-bike Motor Buying Guide: Bafang BBS02 BBSHD, CYC Stealth PRO Photon, Tongsheng Tsdz2, Cyclone more

[@MarioGoatse]

Great video Johnny! People like you are the foundation of the e-bike community. You’re helping to get people onto an e-bike, and hopefully out of a car, at least partially. You’ve already helped me immensely and I’ve only watched a few of your videos. Can’t imagine how many others you’ve helped through consultations. Keep up the great work bro. Cheers

[@dave.willard]

Just finished install of CYC Photon on a Catrike Dumont. Super smooth power delivery. Up to 1200W programmable and if you select unrestricted mode you can get 2000W, but only for a few seconds before the controller safeguards shut down the fun. The 1200W and 110Nm max torque gets the trike to 30mph pretty quickly. The App is excellent. You can pick the basic rules set, i.e. USA, EU, Unrestricted, and the wattage/speed is limited to the maximums for those laws. Then you have complete control over the pedal assist and torque amounts in two modes, street and race, with 3 levels in each. Really nice programming ability. The best I have seen on any motor. The choices of 165mm or 175mm crank arm length, three different chainring sizes, and three different display options make this a sweet deal and justifies the slightly higher price. Oh, and it is very light, sealed and high quality machine finished. I have already bought a second kit for my wife’s trike. You will sell a lot of them once the word gets out.

[@waltk7624]

How did the install go ? I’ve been thinking about doing the same thing on my catrike

[@dave.willard]

@@waltk7624 the install of the motor was very easy. I bought a battery bracket and T mount that holds the display, thumb throttle and keypad. I had to make an extension cable for the battery and I spliced an extension to the speed sensor cable. I can send pics if you are interested.

[@ridefast0]

Been running a CYC photon on a vintage Marin road/trail full-sus MTB for about 6 months. On a 48V 20Ah battery it will run 750W continuous without overheating but can peak at twice that for maybe 1-2 minutes for a hill. Torque sensing is brilliant and everything is adjustable. Very happy.

[@cosmiccharlie8294]

I did a BBS02 a year ago and your videos were very helpful. Thank you! Have not had a lick of trouble with it and happy that I did it.

[@tjts1]

I learned more from your 15 minute video then I did from hours of research online. I will be buying a bafang motor from you shortly. Thank you

[@olegpetelevitch4443]

BBSHD ! For me ! When ,I bought the Bafang ,I also bought second parts and park tools and Bafang shop tools too ! I do all myself been ripped off to many times ! Thank you m8 ! Im after quality and speed !

[@84imreplica]

This is the best video I've watched which covers all of the common DIY ebike kits. Well done!

[@SimpleMeFPV]

I’m 220lbs and My BBSHD build took me up the steepest street in Pittsburgh pa. It might just be the steepest paved road in the USA. I ❤ it!

[@wapiti128]

What battery are you using and what kind of riding do you do? I'm close to 220 myself and I want to do a build for a daily commuter to work (4 miles) with about a half mile ride at the end up a steep road. I'm not looking to have the motor do all the work because my goal is to still get cardio, yet I also want to take the bike on long rides like 20-25 miles 1 direction.

[@leoguzynski]

Thanks for the consultation. You directed me to the Tsdz2. I've only got 20miles on it so far. No indication of drain on the battery and plenty of power for me to zip around town at up to 35mph! I'm a strong cyclist so YMMV. The bike/battery is heavier (feeling) than anticipated. And the thick frame did provide some challenges in mounting (cannondale trail6). I'm hoping for better longevity than others are suggesting but also I have the skills to replace broken parts. I appreciate your advice and business.

[@bibekgautam512]

Hey, How is the heating and noise on the motor?

[@MarvinWestmaas]

@@bibekgautam512 There are cooling kits available, I have them installed and heat never been an issue. If you run stock firmware you don't need it really ( unless you live in a very hot place, then I would still recommend it ). It's not really noisy imo, at the speeds I'm riding wind and tire noise is way more prevalent. But you will hear it when you're accelerating.

[@2001Artfull]

This is a year later but I still find your commentary helpful.

[@bikerider4326]

Been touring for almost a year now and I think it’s time for an upgrade! Excellent video! THANK YOU!!✌️😀✌️

[@ehudkirsh766]

Thanks Johnny, you saved me from hub motors. I watched your previous videos and got a BBS02, converted it myself and I love it :)

[@ASLunar]

How difficult was it to do it yourself? Any problems with the bottom bracket?

[@ehudkirsh766]

@@ASLunar Yes, first time is hard. I can do it 'easy' now. I used a crank arm removal tool, lengthy (torquay) wrench (adjustable is fine), my legs, the bike's brakes, bottom bracket removal tool, a long and thick bolt with a nut and washer, and a plastic hammer.

[@popsbents3542]

As I understood the issue between Tongsheng and Bafang had to deal with the internal clutches used. The new TSDZ2 (TSDZ2B) has different internal clutch mechanisms than the older one

[@arnehusby1420]

My BBS02 had never give my problems and i use it in Norway int cold, snow and dirt. The install is easy too.

[@topherlou3250]

How is the bbd02 in deeper snow when you can't go fast? I was thinking of getting a tdsz2 for winter commuting, but im not sure which one to get..

[@arnehusby1420]

@@topherlou3250 The BBS02. Is a more powerful and expensive motor. The Tdz is also a good motor, but it need more maintenance than the Bafang. Both motors will be good in the snow if you have Tires with spikes. For ordinary Commuting, the TDZ is OK. On my Tdz i change the Nylon drive gears with a Brass drive. The Nylon wheel melted. But nor any trouble after that.

[@briw4647]

I must admit, I'm heavily leaning to the cyc photon. I like the torque assist built in

[@johndopamine7614]

You should read through their warranty page. Nothing but excuses not to honor the supposed warranty

[@treimar]

I also like the look and features but there are some issues. Bafang is still much more consumer friendly and convenient.

[@eXTreemator]

@@johndopamine7614 lol chainese don't honor anything. Well maricans are not good either

[@andy-the-gardener]

@@treimar bafang are a non starter if you want torque sensing. its most frustrating they refuse to upgrade the hd with torque sensing, when its so obviously the thing to do.

[@treimar]

@@andy-the-gardener There's twoseven DM01 now. Which is pretty much a bbshd with torque.

[@gmgrammer9851]

tsdz2 36v 500w tq sensing!!! have mine set up as cat I, has 4000miles love it

[@charlies418]

My BBS02 has turned me into a cycling king! Essential points are: (1) Make sure that your bike is in full working order BEFORE fitting the kit and fit a new chain (2) Ensure that you regularly check the tightness of all your nuts and bolts - after 200 miles my bottom bracket had loosened and also a few spokes. (3) If you're going to do 30mph then fit a larger front brake rotor and hydraulic brakes. (4) 30% battery actually means almost zero - okay on the flat but forget assistance on hills!

[@wapiti128]

what battery do you use?

[@charlies418]

@wapiti128 My battery is 48v 20Ah. I get nearly 35 miles on it.

[@Mountain-Viking]

I have a BBS02B 36V 500W that I've been off-roading for +/- 6 years now. Reprogramed it for 25A, so it's more like 900W. I send it "jump", go through rock gardens, make crazy climbs, and back down again. A little heavy on the bottom bracket, but It's AMAZING, very reliable, never had a problem. Of course, I dont go full throttle for more than 10-15 seconds, and I always down shift to let it go to at least half of max RPM so it dont overheat it. I did hit it quite a few times on rocks, got the scars to prove it, but it hold up perfectly. I do maintenance each year in the winter, like clean and re grease, check bearing and if there was any water infiltrations. I did use a little bit of sealant because I had water creeping in the final drive plastic casing, "I do ride when it's wet and muddy" but apart from that, it's perfect. Changed the plastic gear three years ago it's still fine, but next year it's going out. Finding parts is easy. Got a new gear on AliExpress for $17CAD and noticed that spare parts are readily available for fair prices. Currently thinking of buying the M600 and building a carbon bike around it. Or just buying a cheap bike with it and swapping frames. For me, Bafang are awesome.

[@aryaprincess2479]

I have the exact same one, I am waiting for my usb stick to reprogram the presets and make better use of it. I like it for my normal city-line bike. I do not want to over-amp it but mostly make better usage of the presets instead of the super aggressive battery draining presets it has with the stupid speed limits.

[@djVania08]

What battery have you used so far? Did you need to change it already?

[@emigrant4life]

My bike was stolen in Canada on the first day. Police officer said - "I am sorry about that". Thats all. So I said bye-bye to Canada and move to Europe. Here is everything okay ❣️

[@IdrisFashan]

@@emigrant4lifeas a Canadian, this breaks my heart. I’m so sorry about that.

[@mathew7835]

I have a Truckrun motor installed on my bike. It is Lekkie spec and sold by Converted here in NZ (Lekkie retail arm) 48 volt system (300 watts, legal for the roads). Had it year, used most days, been reliable and a natural feel. It is installed on Trek Dual sport 3. A similar Trek prebuilt bike (Allant) would have cost about $3000 more!

[@woodywong76]

I really love the TSDZ2. It is a great way to get started. For me, torque sensing is a must and it gives a natural feel. Flashing the open source firmware makes it ultra customisable.

[@marthamryglod291]

I'm looking at that motor. Can you point me in the right direction for flashing the firmware?

[@stvsmith1791]

I had heard that the tongsheng lost a lawsuit from bafang and wouldn't be in production anymore?

[@MHH3180]

@@stvsmith1791 no, they just could not stay in China and sell on major platforms like Amazon. Bafang won the right to produce their torque sensor and ta dah, it is in their integrated bikes and Tongsheng (also being sold as Truckrun) is being mfg outside China now.

[@szakadimas2]

@@marthamryglod291 1. Thermal protection: - after exceeding the alarm temperature, the engine reduces power, - after exceeding the critical temperature, the engine cuts off the power completely, - it is possible to check the engine temperature from the display, - it is not possible to use the throttle, 2. installing a cooling system (use of aluminum receivers heat and thermal pads in the right places, as well as the installation of heat sinks - lowering the temperature by an average of -30 degrees C. - significant improvement in quick and effective heat distribution throughout the housing and heat sinks. 3. Uploading alternative software: - more intuitive and user-adapted pressure sensor and differences between modes, - several support operation profiles, - the ability to display voltage, current, cadence and temperature from the display (temperature reading if thermal protection is inserted) 4. Calibrated load sensor, (For clarification, most sets have a factory incorrectly calibrated strain gauge and unfortunately it cannot be calibrated from the display. To do this, you need to upload the OS, put the motor in the frame, take readings without load and with, re-upload the OS with new settings ). 600+shipping

[@mitchellmonaghan6164]

I did the tsdz2 open source firmware and I was happy with my choice. More than enough power for me. Halved my commute, and a great price.

[@larryb4122]

A quick thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience with us. I booked a 10 minute to get your help with my project. I look forward to our chat. Thanks for sharing.

[@Icehso140]

Got my 750W to play with and later swap to my wife's old mtn bike which is the exact same bike but smaller. Also, we're getting ready to open NerdOut EastCoast. Time to expand Johnny. Come to the grand openning...cut the ribbon. LOL We front the cash...you supply the stickers.

[@rayjohnson4285]

Thank you, thank you! Great way to start us off for 2023. Definitely needed this info, keep up the great work J.❤

[@noe616]

I'm building my first dream Ebike using a good Motobecane X2 gravel bike. I ordered the CYC Photon 750 watt from Canadian Golden Motors. It's 52 volts.

[@MHH3180]

The TSDZ2 can be 750 nominal, but you are correct that peak is the same as the 500. I like the fact that it is so lightweight and parts are cheap and available everywhere. Range is astounding! If you add a throttle, reliability goes out the window. Working with a Photon right now. Super quiet, stays cool, slips over everything and can't wait to see what this nominally legal motor, with a peak approaching BBSHD and torque around 120 os going to feel like. I'm really excited about it. I'll sell it with the same profit as I make installing a TSDZ2 to keep thebcost down and get a few more super satisfied customers.

[@umz_786]

Have you got the photon? Im confused about the power. The website says 750w but 1200w in north america and then an unretricted mode of 2000w. Is the 750w motor same as the 1200w motor? If I am outside N.A. can I set it at 1200w? thanks

[@Shimanothtrailslayer]

sign me up haha.. I am itching to get my hands on one.. my broke ass wallet says no though

[@MHH3180]

@@umz_786 they are just talking nominal (750) vs peak power (1200) with the 48 volt battery. It is a little higher with the 52. I'll be selling it as a 48 for range and reliability vs peak performance

[@albertmonsieur7832]

sir if u got rough roads a throttle is insane! u dont need to sit while driving. reliability decreased about 20% i would say. because tsdz2 is super cheap and parts, i would say throttle can be used

[@MHH3180]

@@albertmonsieur7832 not if I have to warrenty it

[@Falasi4]

I ended up converting 2 greenway bikes with TSDZ2 open source firmware kits using the 960 displays and 52v super shark batteries. Really great for greenway riding up to 20mph with good battery economy and typically only need to be on level 2 (of 9) for greenway uphill grades or headwinds. Very interested to see how the new Photon turns out for some builds and how loud it is - only complaint with TSDZ2 so far is after only a few rides the noise on it gets quite a bit louder than when brand new.

[@russellzauner]

I've been looking at Grin Tech's "universal" controller as a way to cover all my PEV projects, from an open framework and tunability standpoint. Right now I'm still running the default FW on the TSDZ2 (upgraded my Fat Tad CXS/TLDR handicapped need pedal assist, internal torque sensor and throttle capable) and it works okay but it's rough and inefficient in the upper ranges - needs tuning, but it will *launch* in the top two modes. I haven't bothered to install the throttle yet, it has been working so great I've been destroying my drivetrain (currently building a new wheel that has a CVT hub and pricing belt drives) and should probably upgrade the suspension since I do take it to the skate park and BMX track here. Yes, I got full air on the downhill and smashed the idler and derailleur again - both twice - all the upgrades are going to save me money and hassle on what's functionally my wheelchair/transport. I let it run around with its torque to the upper accessory bout and lashed it to that, for now - yes, it's not only away from the ground it's self pinning while running - ended up working so well that I really *really* need to do it right (mounting a bracket/bushing with JBWeld) but it's so much fun I keep taking it out as soon as it's limping again.

[@glukes9]

Thanks, that was a very helpful video, everything in perspective makes it easy for me to make a decision. I will be going for the Bafang BBS02.

[@Haasinger]

2022 had some heart issues for me following covid so i got an excuse to get some power on my bike. After wachting a bunch of you videos i grabbed the bike of my wife and mine and built in two BBSHDs and kinda programmed them street legal for Germany and left some buffer using it only at 25A just to have long time fun with it. Since there the german police does not own a dyno for bicycles i just set them up für 27kph and had a heck lots of fun with it. Went for 48V and 17.5Ah and drove like 50km with 20% battery usage in January. Wasnt pretty sure if i should use a hub or mid drive but u made the decision very clear for me in your guides. Thanks mate!

[@lukewalker1051]

There is a ton of BBSHD's in Europe that are running full power with 52v battery at 1700 watts. This is where the fun is. In America, the cops could pretty much care less about e-bikes. You just use common sense and ride them practically around people and other slower bicycles. When road opens up, you let them eat. I come from the world of bicycle rating. Europe's power restrictions on ebikes are outrageous. Most top amateurs throughout the world can paceline in a group of road bikes without motors at 25mph.

[@Haasinger]

@@lukewalker1051 in germany its actually an issue. The police weekly catches dudes going 70kph trough citys on selfmade bicycles today. So if they spot a DIY bike they always gonna double check if its really going just about 25kph. So i set my HD to 26kph and im pretty happy with it.

[@RetroMancer242]

gets heart issues from vaxx, blames the flu. lol

[@Haasinger]

@@RetroMancer242 idc where i got it from, still happy with my bafang during my recovery

[@Kattbirb]

I've been leaning towards the Grin Tech All-Axle direct drive motors. It really looks like an easy to use motor with a lot of useful features.

[@ados1980cz]

Great overview, had Bafang on my wish list for couple of months but wasn't aware of Tongsheng. Should be much more convenient with torque sensing in UK, legal at 250W. So Tongsheng it is for me. Did't now even know that there was such a thing as torque sensing ones. Thank you.

[@davidlegard9814]

I just got a Tongsheng 500W and it gives a much more natural bicycle feel than the cadence sensor bikes, where you just flick the pedals a bit and the bike takes off. You'll be doing more work with this thing, no ghost pedaling and sightseeing. For off-road work, and people who like a genuine workout when they ride, torque sensing fits the bill. For commuters and lazier individuals, cadence sensing makes for a more comfortable ride.

[@ados1980cz]

@@davidlegard9814 Well, I just ordered the 250w one as that is the one you need to have to be legal in UK. My intent is mainly to commute to work and back. Mostly downhill to work but uphill back home, so it is to help me uphill when going back home. You don't want to exert yourself too much in busy traffic to breath in all those car fumes deep into your lungs. Hope I will like it :-)

[@pompeymonkey3271]

@@ados1980cz I've had the higher power version for about 4 years. The top speed is software limited, but you just get there sooner! The torque sensing assist gives me Wout Van Aert legs. I hope that you are enjoying it. :)

[@ados1980cz]

@@pompeymonkey3271 Enjoying it a lot. Just did not use the VLCD 5 and sold it right away. Using XH-18 where the assist top speed is easily adjustable up to 45km/h (approx. 28mph). Love it.

[@o00scorpion00o]

@@ados1980cz not even the Bosch ebikes are "legal" in the U.K or most of europe and neither are most ebikes with decent power, the Bosch is more like 500-700+ watts. You get nothing for nothing, if Bosch are increasing power all the time they're increasing the power testing to see what they can get away with, the most important thing for the so called legal bikes is speed and acceleration and not allowing a throttle.

[@Silver4567z]

I think I will go for the CYC Photon this spring. Me hoping that you will do a install video like you did with the BBSHD.

[@lukewalker1051]

He will.

[@GorillaZillas]

So far, the best of the best for me here in the UK (hilly wales) is the Cyclone 3KW matched up with a Grin technologies Cycle Analyst to manage the combined input from a half grip Throttle and a Torque-sensing bottom bracket. Unlike ANY other mid-drive you get to keep your front derailleur and Hi/LO range with the triple chainring kit, so you use one chainring for the drive to the motor and the other 2 chainrings for epic gear range for any hill and towing stuff. Easy to limit it to 15MPH too for legality, with the Cycle analyst reading the RPM of the wheels through a spoke-mounted magnet without losing the torque to effortlessly glide up any hill on the lowest gear. If you don't have a torque-sensing bottom bracket, you will want to use the handlebar-mounted button RPM/PAS limiter included with the LCD version of the Cyclone controller so you can add in your own leg power in any gear easily, without the additional motor RPM limiter the motor will try to spin the cranks too fast for you to keep up when you are in a low gear climbing a hill unless you carefully manage the throttle. The 5 settings RPM limiter on number 2 or 3 lets you peg the throttle and just enjoy the ride. Also made in Taiwan rather than mainland china, so you are not sending money to Winnie the Pooh and his totalitarian dictatorship too (those guys are actively undermining your freedoms and messing with you by buying their way into all your countries institutions using the money you send them by buying made in china stuff, then using that power to influence what can and cannot be in your movies and on TV and even setting up Chinese police stations in your own countries, seriously weird and creepy that that is even possible and happening IMO). Little more chain maintenance due to running mid-drive, but I've found the best is to wax your chains rather than oil, The channel "oz Cycle" has an excellent video on this, search youtube for "ultimate chain wax - make it yourself" and you should find it Makes your chain last a lot longer, does not get dirty, so you can touch your chain without your hands coming away black, and is generally a lot less hassle than trying to degrease your chain thoroughly and get every last bit of dirt out with toothbrushes or a chain cleaner tool (and good luck getting the INSIDE of the chain clean unless you repeat half a dozen times and even then it's unsure) Easy enough to Wax, thoroughly Degrease your chain with Petrol (best to do this with a NEW chain that is clean INSIDE from the factory) For the first time degreasing a chain for switching to wax lubricant, Petrol and chain in a long HotDog glass jar and shook around, many repetitions with a small amount of Petrol does a much better job of degreasing the inside of the chains rollers than fewer times with a large amount of gasoline. Once the chain is wholly degreased inside and out and completely dry, Store the used Petrol in another jar and dispose responsibly at a garage. (or strain through a paper coffee filter for re-use, up to a point) Then melt 500 Grams of food-grade paraffin wax in a slow cooker set to low, or a pan suspended in a larger pan filled with water to heat the wax no more than 100 degrees, then mix in 50 grams of PTFE (Teflon) power with the smallest particle size in microns you can find. Then make a wire coathanger into a large flat-ended hook to thread your chain onto, to dip into and swish around in the melted wax for a few minutes, to ensure the chain itself has heated up thoroughly to allow the wax to creep deep inside the chains internal components to do its job of lubricating the chain properly. Also of note, the PTFE powder will settle to the bottom of the wax quite quickly so make sure to mix it up again with a whisk or similar before the moment you dip your chain in, as the first wax to touch your chain is going to be the wax that will be the stuff that ends up inside the chain to do the main lubrication work and if this is the clear PTFE free wax sitting at the top of the pan with the PTFE powder settled at the bottom then the wax in the place where you want the best lubrication will be lacking in PTFE! Once you've whisked any settled PTFE back into the wax, and then dipped your chain for a few minutes, swishing out around generously. Then, raise the chain back out and let the excess wax drip back into the pan. Once the chain has cooled it will be stiff as the solidified wax will not let it move, get a pair of chunky gloves so you don't hurt your fingers as you work each individual link loose so they rotate freely again. Now your chain has the ultimate form of lube on it (and more importantly INSIDE IT), suitable for around 400 km or more of riding. Make sure to also degrease your Front Chainring, rear Sprockets and derailleur sprockets before you refit your chain, otherwise your chain will get contaminated with dirty oil from them and you are back to square one. Chain waxing is better if you wax three or more chains at once in one go as it takes the same effort to wax three chains as it does one. Then cycle through them, always carrying a spare chain with you as you cycle in case, as mid-drives put more strain on your chain and you don't want it to fail and not have a spare with you. Once your chain needs rewaxing, it's a lot nicer than the process with an oiled chain. Just boil a kettle of water, hold your chain on the hangar and pour the boiling water on it to strip away the old wax off the outside of the chain, no need to overdo it as you want to remove only the outside layer of wax that has dirt on it, so you don't contaminate your Wax/PTFE mix when you re-dip it, then hairdryer it till it's bone dry. Then dip and swish it around the melted PTFE and wax mix in your pan/slow cooker for a few minutes, as before. Again, ensure the PTFE is whisked up into the was before the chain goes in. Nice clean process, and a joy to do compared to the dirty job that oiled chain maintenance is.

[@whiskeykilmer1866]

Was this an excerpt from your book?

[@GorillaZillas]

@@whiskeykilmer1866 How did you know? Would you like a signed copy? There's a preview of my audiobook Biography if you paste this: dQw4w9WgXcQ After the watch?v= part of the address in the Address bar Oh actually wrong video, this is the right one: 37MwpDRKnZQ

[@joesiph8021]

Yeah right

[@GorillaZillas]

​@@joesiph8021 Generic response? No imagination? Ahhh so you one of dem Skyrim NPCs I's be hearing about, you must be lost. You will find your people here, NFxS1gitGFU Or if you are not programmed with the copy-paste youtube fu to use that string then search youtube for Skyrim in Real Life (Season 1) Now, unless you can come up with something that passes the Turing Test there's nothing more I can do for you. Guten Tag...

[@paul340mopar]

@@whiskeykilmer1866 I'm waiting for the Movie! 😎

[@paulschmidtke425]

Excellent content , hope your personal advice service goes well for you, I'd certainly use it if I hadn't already given myself grey hairs on my build

[@EBikeBuilder_]

agreed on the BBS02 hard to beat for the price. I would have tried a CYC by now if they weren't so loud, and the company leveled up a bit. Not a fan of their marketing. They tell you the new motors quiet, and its not. They start taking pre orders for the Gen3 before it even exists, Lol its like a kickstarter without any pictures or anything. They post vids on YT and then take them down, cuz everyone is making fun of their motor for overheating in a few minutes of riding. Every time CYC post or do anything its like cmon what are you doing. If they can barely market their product i wonder how their support is

[@russellzauner]

It would be cool to see in gear hub demos for mid drive shoot out or at least comparison - Rohloff, Shimano, Enviolo, Sturmey-Archer, et al; there are several internally geared hub manufacturers and a few are being used in PEV. Belt drives would be good to see more demo/info on too. Thanks for putting up the content you do; it takes time to produce and publish useful things for us to watch.

[@wild-radio7373]

Fantastic I love this idea♡

[@garybourke468]

Exactly my thoughts. Seems like U Tube is 2 years behind on everything.

[@Timberius]

Any reason not to mount the battery under the downtube? (for a lower center of gravity - assuming it's a non-suspension fork of course and that there's clearance)

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

Just make sure the tire doesn’t run against it when the fork compresses. Other than that, muck and road debris will get flung to it, but it shouldn’t ruin it, just make it messy.

[@chartphred1]

I'd like to see some reviews and comparisons of various digital displays and controllers out there. Confusing as to which ones are the best

[@dexgray4581]

750c or egg rider seem to be two I always seem getting recommended 👍

[@Rowganlife]

love my cyc pro on my marin full suspension....so cool.

[@frag999]

I have 2 bikes that I have converted. One with tsdz2 and one with bbs02. I really like the natural feeling of the torque sensor on the tsdz2, but I wish it had more power. I really like the power of the bbs02 and the cadence sensor on it is just ok. I am excited to try the Photon in a 3rd bike this spring that I just picked up off of Craigslist this past weekend! I hope that it is the best of both worlds and it is also quiet and reliable. The one thing I am dumbfounded by is the chainring option for the Photon; why do they not make an option in between the 38T and 50T !? Keep making these great videos Johnny!

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

I found that strange too. Maybe there will be another option shortly

[@holotekor]

@@JohnnyNerdOut any reasonable idea if you are getting the Photons soon? this video convinced me to try it vs doing another BBSHD and I am happy to preorder from you as long as its not a long open ended wait :)

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

@@holotekor I can’t give a date but I am expecting them any day 🤞

[@mattdeeney1169]

@@JohnnyNerdOut Any update on the Photon's being in stock? I think I'm sold on them and I want to give you the business.

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

@@mattdeeney1169 I have the 68-83mm coming tomorrow 👍

[@petervu9773]

so happy i found your channel !! will be booking a consultation soon

[@chriscardenas5398]

Love your channel ❤️ can't wait to schedule a consultation with you for my 1st eletric build

[@bjnslc]

I'll eventually put a Photon on my old Cannondale Rush full suspension. I've already converted it to a one-by drivetrain, and the Photon has a suitable small chainring option. And I really hate cadence sensing on my BBS02 converted bike.

[@russellzauner]

Don't need cadence sensing with torque sensing. Ask anyone who's motor comes with a torque sensor built in - me personally I haven't bothered to install speed or cadence sensors that came with mine. Torque sensing motors Just Work(TM) when you hit the pedal.

[@holotekor]

@@russellzauner do you bother with brake sensors?

[@charlies418]

@@holotekor I wasn't going to bother but now I appreciate that working brake sensors are ESSENTIAL on an electric bike to instantly cut the motor. Lets say you're waiting at a bike crossing and you move forward and the sensor kicks in, it will force you forward into traffic. As a bonus, activate the brake sensor by gently pulling on the rear brake as you change gear - this saves wear and tear on your drive-train even if you have a shift sensor.

[@johnminichielli8957]

Bafang M635 is a game changer!

[@jbandt]

I think I need to book a consult eventually. I want to convert my hybrid bike to mid drive, but not sure where to start. This video helped as I noticed a bunch of recent videos on the new cyc motor, but wasn't sure if it was any good.

[@tomnorton8218]

Johnny, I am a bike mechanic and did a Bafang middrive conversion last year. It works great! I want to do some preventative maintenance, luring the gears. I see some videos where they totally disassemble the unit so that the nylon gear can be lubricated. Thoughts? Thanks!

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

You pretty much need to disassemble it (remove one case). I recommend removing as much grease as you can and replacing it with Mobil one synthetic gear lube that they sell at any auto store. Should go quicker than a car oil change 👍

[@tomnorton8218]

@@JohnnyNerdOut Thanks! I have the grease sitting on my bench!

[@toooldforthis3838]

@@JohnnyNerdOut Do you have any videos on this?

[@wapiti128]

​​@@JohnnyNerdOutPlease make a video of this if you haven't already.

[@lukewalker1051]

Nice review Johnny. To me, BBSHD is the sweet spot for power and reliability. I can live with cadence sensing. To me, the Photon is already coming in too expensive for what it is. PS. I am a power and speed guy with a bicycle racing background. I choose the BBSHD for its power because I don't want to lose to human power elite cyclists. Btw, they are my friends. I am aging and why I am leaning more toward custom e-bikes. I have buddies who train with a coach, compete in national competitions etc who can hold my wheel on my bbshd bikes at 30 mph in my draft. They fall off my wheel at 35mph but that is what it takes for elite level cyclists. More average cyclists get dropped at 25mph. Also, I want an ebike that is faster than you can buy in a store. My BBSHD bikes...I have a road bike and 29'er with that motor have been rock solid and you have built a ton of them on your channel.

[@holotekor]

curious what road bike you put it onto? I have a bbshd on an old gary fisher hardtail that I love but am thinking about going rigid on to be more of a road bike. I am thinking about preordering a photon w/Johnny to put on a full suspension 2005 titus. Will probably book a consult with him soon but his only available times are always dinner time :)

[@jasonrivers7518]

Photon is wonderfully quiet, smooth and gives linear acceleration, in my experience. Saying that, my daily ride has a bb's...

[@InfiltrateIndustries]

I run a tsdz2 36v motor at +52v - it’s able to do decent wattage for a while - maybe 1k? With custom firmware it’s well configurable - easy to repair, sort of

[@ttp_007]

I own CYC and other brands 750W plus. If you are looking for reliability, performance, natural feeling, and you are riding in an area with lots of steep hills, and if you are a heavy guy CYC hands down.

[@baetis]

I have a question about my bafang 48v 20ah battery. The other day I got home from a ride and took my battery inside. Later I wanted to check a setting on my EggRider so I took battery out, plugged it in, tuned on battery power then hit power button on the EggRider.Display didn’t light up. I’ve sense tested battery output and it’s reading 54 volts which is indicating a full charge. I plugged in the original display and same result. I’ve also unplugged all brake sensors, shift sensor, speed sensor etc. with no change. I’m thinking controller failure but am not convinced.. Am I missing something obvious?

[@emigrant4life]

250w mid drive is the best choice for the city - it is light and non battery drainer

[@nickturner4150]

I like that front wheel halo you got going on there, St. Johnny

[@MrChucknorris1975]

Just the video I needed to see. Thanks man.

[@johnnylong2049]

Also high voltage has an upgrade for bbshd using a asi bac855 that allows for a 72v making 4400w plus. Just something to note I guess. Shout out to John at high voltage. 52v can get you 2500w I think.

[@eXTreemator]

They are not only ones selling controllers. And bac is also not the holy grail controller either

[@akudamatada1]

Which is the best to use for full suspension frames?

[@rickmesta6033]

Hey man. Appreciate the vid and all of the info. I’ve a northrock fat tire that I got during the pandemic, that I want to turn into a commuter (to/from work 13miles). What kit(s) would you recommend? Bike weight: 35lbs. My weight: 25bs (add another 10lbs for my work bag). Also, id need to climb hills on the return.

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

I always start with the Bafang motors with the decision tree and work out from there. Did you mean 250lbs? If so I’d say the BBSHD. Feel free to email me [e-mail]

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

I always start with the Bafang motors with the decision tree and work out from there. Did you mean 250lbs? If so I’d say the BBSHD. Feel free to email me [e-mail]

[@patbaker2199]

you can change the wattage through the settings in the tongsheng afaik

[@capt.lennymiller6524]

Given your knowledge and experience and NOT based on what is more profitable, with the currently available torque sensing motors, what would you consider the best choice for 2024? And why?

[@capt.lennymiller6524]

@@ADayWithFrank Thanks for taking the time to offer your opinion but the BBSHD is not torque sensing.

[@samhiggins9122]

I HAVE A 5 YEAR OLD CYCLONE, AND IT IS SO QUIET, IS THE MINI JUST AS QUIET?

[@motorsportguy]

ive beeb trying to get a consult with ya for ever, your you have nothing available or I'm busy, one day Johny, Youre my Ebike DIY Master Yoda...

[@stvsmith1791]

Splendid! I've been waiting for this one.

[@StarEssences]

I found my bicycle, but it is in a range where it is non-affordable. Benno's 46er ($5000); that is exactly what I need for fitness riding e-touring, and cargo. What is your recommendation for a mid motor to be used for e-touring (lugging a total weight of 330lbs) and fitness riding? (2-n-1 bicycle).

[@davidmatten8519]

can these motors be installed into a threaded bottom bracket whose threads have been damaged? I had an M2 StumpJumper that got "cross-threaded" when the bottom bracket had seized and could only be removed with an impact wrench. Even a breaker bar couldn't remove it. One of the cups of the replacement BB wouldn't seat exactly right, maybe 1/2mm from being flush on one edge (of the same cup). Re-threading it wasn't really an option. The guys said those tools really only work for steel, or BBs that come uncut to begin with. I held onto it for a while, contemplating what I might do with it, but eventually had to give up the storage space so it went to recycling. It hurt to give it up... This was several years ago, but wondering now if it could have been converted. The chain stays did come in at a steepish angle, so I'm also wondering about he clearance for the chainring, even if there would only be the one. Maybe I can rescue one that someone has left locked up and let rust.

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

Yes that won’t be a problem because they don’t thread on using the bikes threads at all.

[@richardbritt3611]

Also it needs to be able to pull me and the 180 pound cart up a hill! Is this possible?

[@Shimanothtrailslayer]

Easy

[@jonyfany8763]

With the correct gearing it should work.

[@JohnSmith-ch9lp]

9:55 Tongsheng "Supernatural feeling" 😂👻

[@JoseMGomez-hg1hh]

I have a 750 Monday motor anza I want to upgrade it it hits 27 but I want 45 mph at least and I’m willing to spend around 1500 the bike was 2000 so I think it’s worth it but it’s a fat tire bike do these mid drives have the power to deleiver 45mph

[@adolfovontraction3780]

Hi Johnny any new rear DD hub for 12mm DROPOUT right now? My frame is DH OLD 135 but It'sfine up to 138,9mm Kind Regards

[@timburk6097]

Such great info. Thanks so much. Building my knowledge to prepare to convert my stump jumper.

[@Falsiva]

I have a stump jumper as well thinking of converting, how'd it go?

[@vp5228]

Id like to add a mid drive to my juiced scrambler with a 750 w hub motor. The bike I believe is 60 to 70 lbs. Its a 20 inch fat tire bike. Would the BBS02 be sufficient? I just want to add climbing power and maybe increase the speed of the bike to 40 mph.

[@LA_USA]

By the way, the sound of the motor in Bafang HD is very pleasant and futuristic, not at all annoyed.

[@jasondundom1390]

Seems to me its been about a year since i bought the 750 fang mid from your site.. 916 miles latter still happy, my top speed at 25amps.. is 46.6 (Peddling my ass off of full throttle course) At these speeds my chain jumps the bottom derailleur pully (Wheel side).. my fix is to buy a chain tensioner.. the XLC Guide Roller CR A02.. you should add it or something like to your your site :)

[@thebeaglebeat3615]

Jason dundom I have a 52 tooth chainring, this means I can use the 3rd ad 4th cassette gears for road cruising 40-55 kms, more teeth on the larger gears, no problems with jumping, using deore derailleur & cassette, & 52 tooth bling ring.

[@mChav34]

Do you have a recommended kit for converting a DH bike to a lightweight MotoX bike- no cranks and pedals, just pegs and a throttle ?

[@educosta21]

Also, what kind of chain and gears you can use with more than 2000w? Single speed? Thanks for the content. I'm a long time bbshd user and I like that they just go on forever.

[@germanfandino598]

Hello Johnny !! I have one cargo bike with to front wheels and a single wheel in the back, with shimano 8 gears, my customer want to converter to E-cargobike, my question is what do you recommend with this setting for DYU installation !? And how much W for carry 2 children’s and grocery’s 😅. Thanks for your help and support !!

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

I like the Bafang BBSHD motors for cargo bikes that will be doing a lot of actual work

[@aMotoheadsGarage]

Can you add a throttle to the CYC?

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

Yes it comes with one

[@DaveWarnock]

Is it possible to use a BBS02B without having a throttle connected? I want pedal assist only so it is not so obviously "illegal" in the UK (pedal assist only is the legal option)

[@Keithjmcc]

I have a Canondale Jekyll. It’s got fat tubes and that shock it uses just takes up a lot of room. What do you suggest for that? I used to do a lot of downhill but I’m 54 and my knee is destroyed, I need some help with the hills around here. My days of downhill are over though.

[@ritcheymt]

Thanks @JohnnyNerdOut! Hey, why is there no option on this video to save? I wanted to save your video in a folder of the very most informative ebike videos I've seen.

[@colincampbell4261]

The tsdz2 is a lovely wee motor, very natural feeling but a little bit underpowered for really big hills, heavy riders or cargo.

[@o00scorpion00o]

which version, the 250 watt, 500 or 700 ? I'm thinking about getting the 48v 750 watt, currently using a Haibike powered with a 2013 Gen I 50 Nm Bosch, I will never spend 2500 again and to get the 85 Nm Bosch you can only get them in mountain bikes and pay 5000+ euro's I prefer trekking bikes.

[@TheRaman1962]

Thank you so much, for this video. Very useful information, about mid drive motor kits, available in China. I have to order my first BAFANG BBS 02 from China. Very practical and good video

[@sleepingbearffg5008]

I bought the cyclone from ya. And I love it! Going on 3k hard miles 😂 going strong💪💪👊👊 one tough motor.. dependable.. and powerful. Why not on your list?

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

You are the exception my friend. The cyclone is too much for the average builder IMO. I also like the cyclone, but I’d say 75% of people have mana or install/ operation issues with it 😮

[@sleepingbearffg5008]

Thanks for complement 👍👍 I found thicker braket for holding motor.. big help!! Stock braket.. bent way to easy.. chain alignment was biggest issue.. but my bike needs to chains together for right length.Long. Cyc solved allot of problems with installation with there braket. And they use great controller. Why cost more.. I definitely see why I wouldn't sell cyclones Lol but you made clear not easy. If ditched that braket and used thicker one? Machine shop said could make 5 for 100 bucks. I paid 80 for one! I'm thinking a smart guy.. lol could design there own version of cyc but use cyclone motors.. keep controller separate so more affordable? Hey I can hang with harleys off start!! Got a ticket! Arrested (I dont answer questions 😂) But I bought a 750w befang sticker. 😂😂 so was dismissed.. our secret!! Wish I could work with ya.. I dont need a job. Landlord already. But I love building.. met a couple who you built for. They were happy with big time! Might start own gig? Or at least ebike upgrade and repair shop? You my brother enjoy the day! Will make video when done remodeling rentals.. live in Washington state.. love to visit this summer? God bless 👊👊👍👍

[@luminousfractal420]

Wondering how safe pedal sensing is on a mtb. If you put torque down to pop a kerb or something how would it behave?

[@tristanedwards7521]

Hi Jonny love your channel just found you but straight away I new this guy was very knowledgeable and honest about what motor to use and why I currently have a 500W Hub Motor rear bafang on a standard dropout I was wondering how to install a torque sensor bottom bracket as I hate te feeling of got pedalling even in pa1 it ghost pedals so could you tell me the best option. I think all motors should have built-in torque sensor systems pas is old outdated technology

[@Random-ji5sy]

Can you do a video showing how to add a keyed ignition to the Bafang mid drive motors?

[@usmenapropaganda]

Hey man, awesome channel, I appreciate your videos, watched a lot of them before I bought my BBS02 750W. I was wondering what's the life expectancy of BBS02... I'm a bike messenger and I do 50km a day, 1000km a month so I was wondering for how many years might I be able to use it if I do 12.000km a year.

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

Just change out the lube when it’s starts to make a grinding noise. The motor itself will last forever if you replace the parts that’s fail when they do. It’s rare and cheap to replace the internal parts.

[@kencook4956]

Excellent video, but when you were talking about the BBS02 you mentioned 52 w battery. Aren't they limited to 48 w batteries?

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

No, (mine at least) work just fine with either 48v or 52v batteries.

[@educosta21]

Just another question occurred to me: how those torque sensors behave when you are simply standing up on the pedals?

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

It won’t apply power if you are standing on both pedals.

[@Gyllbonus]

Hey Johnny I was wondering if you have tried any of the asi bac controllers? I'm looking at the bac855 paired with a bbs02 using just a single gear on a belt drive 29er platform. Any thoughts...thnx

[@stevepadilla9729]

I have a YT enduro bike. I want an Ebike but dont have the money to spend on a complete e-bike. I was hoping to find something not so heavy and don't mind a 250w motor or if there is something more that isn't so bulky. plus what is the thinnest battery to look for? Thank you for your video, and do you sell to consumers as well?

[@mamgura]

Hi Johnny. Thank you for the great content once again. I am thinking about getting a bafang bbs02 and putting it on a siskiu T7 ..I'm a little bit concerned about the ground clearance in the bbs02. do you think it's a good idea to use that motor for technical more aggressive riding? Single tracks, technical trails etc... Thank you!

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

If you do a lot of rolling over fallen logs, I’d get a bash guard for the motor 👍

[@jaybriault]

hi i just got my bafang bbs02b but it does not fit on my 2022 salsa rangefinder my bb is 73mm do you have any idea what one will work?

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

If it’s 73mm it should fit. Just use the longer bolts, assuming there’s enough thread on the spindle for the lock ring to thread onto it.

[@dimab4331]

Hi Johnny Thank you so much for your reviews. I have 2 questions 1) is it better for the battery to get a lower watt motor like a 250w to 500w. 2) Also please comment on this motor for reliability which puts out 95nm and is it good for reliability and parts?

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

1- yes. Less strain on battery will make it last longer. 2- which motor are you asking about?

[@dimab4331]

@@JohnnyNerdOut The Bafang MMG520

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

@@dimab4331 that’s a great motor. I wish it was available for diy conversions ☹️

[@JamesTsividis]

Just the video we needed. Thanks Johnny!

[@integra8502]

Hello Jonny, I have a vintage looking Tandem bike I would like to Electrify, could a Bafang motor be used even if it's a 3-speed Hub gear.? Thanks.

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

Yes

[@integra8502]

@@JohnnyNerdOut the only problem is like I saw on your video,..one of the passengers pedals will not be free when motor engaged

[@romanlevoshevich246]

Hello, if the motors have a differense on bbs01 and bbs02... in appearance its is the same... may I put controller bafang 48v 750w in my bbs01??

[@Hoggdoc1946]

More great information from Johnny.

[@educosta21]

I prefer cadence/throttle sensor as I use the bike more like a motorcycle, to be honest. Torque sensor might be dangerous without brake sensors, specially with high power. Also, I never got those gear shift sensors to work well, I rather go for a light touch on the brakes to shift

[@dexgray4581]

Curious what you think of the Lightning Rod- Large Block motors 😮😮😮😮😮 ??

[@JohnnyNerdOut]

They appear to be an in between of the cyclone and the CYC motors. Kind of like the futon version for good and bad.

[@SkyGizmmo]

ToSeven better choices, the QC and issues with Photon and repair constrictions pass until worked out. Bafang rules in the price and variant tunes and upgrade support in community. The Greek unit is cool but very pricey. The other CYC stuff is definitely power and sheer performance option. As the offerings mature and get really time tested as the various Bafangs have been.

[@michaelquimby5631]

so what bikes do these motors fit on that can handle the torque and weight? I want to build a bike for hunting and fishing so i'll want to be able to haul a small trailer.