Loading 223 Subsonics

[@me2bfc]

If you just have one rifle for everything, but reload, this is great information. Similar loads are available for 308 and 30-06. Imagine hunting everything from hare to moose with a single 30-06 rifle.

[@bepropheta6665]

I’m disappointed... in the comments! I think Johnny scared all the idiots off with his opening. I’ve just started playing with cast bullets in rifles after loading them for 35 years in pistols. It’s very satisfying shooting your favorite deer rifle with less noise, no recoil and tight groups. Thanks for the great video Johnny!

[@upnorthreloading2214]

Yesterday was the first "sight in" day for 2021 hunting season; another guy and I arrived at the range before the rest of the mob did. He brought out his suppressed AR with some subsonic rounds he was going to try out - he lived on the outskirts of town and had a squirrel problem, but his neighbors don't appreciate the reports of any sort of firearm. That solved his problem on both ends. It was crazy, and he let me try a couple rounds. It reminded me of firing a pellet gun, and when I was back at my firing station with ear protection on I didn't even know when he was firing rounds.

[@Jk-go5lw]

What is a squirrel problem??

[@DimaProk]

It's great if you don't have anything else but really a 22LR suppressed bolt action is a better choice and it's not going to break a bank at $200+. I have Savage and CZ and both are very accurate. 40gr lead bullet carries less energy than 55gr if you happen to miss and I can't even imagine working the AR15 bolt and chasing brass. It's also much more accurate. There is a huge selection of 22LR subsonic ammo available too. With current prices, primers alone will cost as much as subsonic ammo.

[@bertkilborne6464]

I'm looking for a subsonic for rats. I'll shop around for some lead projectiles. Good video - I have some Clays and Red Dot and WST I need just enough powder to get the bullet out and hopefully burn up primer residue .

[@floridagunrat1625]

​@Jk-go5lw That's just another way of saying that you have a Target Rich environment!!!

[@kengilcrest8670]

I have loaded and shot tons of these over the years. Lots of fun and as has been mentioned: reloading for me is about playing around with all kinds of weird stuff. Not that it matters but this isn't a .22LR. Obviously the bullet weighs 15 grains more than a .22LR which is a significantly heavier bullet when you are talking about small bullets. I did a lot of playing around with subsonic 77 grain bullets also: so almost twice as heavy a bullet as a .22LR. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying these have any particularly significant role or purpose for me but again, they are fun to play with.

[@kengilcrest8670]

If there is a legit purpose for these, it would be the fact that you can be doing whatever with a 5.56 rifle and if you need or want to make an almost silent shot, it is just a matter of changing magazines and chambering a subsonic round. Or, if you have your 5.56 rifle and you want to shoot a small game animal or a varmint, you just change ammo and you are good to go. How many times have you been deer hunting and you see a coyote or something that you think seriously about shooting but you don't want to spook everything else for a mile around ? At the time I was really into playing with these, I was using an ACOG which was zeroed with supersonic ammo, but I worked out sight dope to 100 yards with subsonics using the ACOG's reticle so switching ammo and making hits was pretty easy to do.

[@jamiem5364]

what load did u find worked with the 77gn projies?

[@clinte9897]

Jamie m yes in deed? What was the 77 gr recipe for super silent sniper death?

[@reloader7sixtwo]

I shoot subsonic loads in ever single 30 cal. US and Russian rifle I own,in fact I use the same 90 gr.cast lead bullet sized accordingly and powder it every rifle. It's all about versatility an being able to take small as well as large game with one rifle,plus the kids and ladies that are recoil sensitive get to shoot the big calibers and enjoy it. As a reloader and caster for 30+ years this stuff never gets old.

[@MushroomStampGalactica]

Even an SKS?

[@Bittydog1956]

I’ve loaded a small amount of red dot in 223 and used pillow stuffing to keep the powder next to the primer it worked very well . This is all about loading what you got safely when things run short . Put your mind in you only have a 1/2 pound of power and thing are running out . I’ve loaded one #4 buckshot on the end of a 223 and it kills a squirrel no problem . With that said . Your not all ways going to have what you need so learn to use the stuff you can get. Be safe and try things out and learn to improvise. For a example one #4 buckshot gun shell can make a lot of 223s. the primers are the only thing you have to come up with. Be safe and be ready

[@alna2530]

For curiosity sake and not related to reloading at all but what would be considered a "Small ammount" of powder?

[@blackbirdpie217]

This is an interesting subject for me, looking to replace impossible to find 22lr with similar performance in a reloadable centerfire cartridge for a CZ, Savage or Ruger bolt. Looking at the 22tcm, 5.7 and 22 hornet the 223 gives you the added capability of handling full power loads, too.

[@davidunderwood3605]

I beleave if you read the specs on tightgroup you'll find it was designed to burn/work in the case no matter how it lays. This is a clue as to it's working so well. It just works well in just about every thing it's loaded into.

[@spyderxtra777]

Next video: .224 accelerator sabots loaded into .300blk cases! haha

[@rifleshooterchannel208]

DR Dan .221 Fireball

[@wkf57]

A really fun yet informative video. As others have repeatedly said, "Best reloading channel on KZbin!" You bet!

[@chicowize]

Thanks JRB for the video, I’m toying with the idea of 223 subs. Mainly DJ or the fun & so my little guy will enjoy shooting my rifle more.

[@mbizzle1801]

Ballpark counter, best part of the video, well played

[@leomortimer2565]

I thought this was a great video! I'm not sure why people would complain about subsonic loads for 223rem/5.56? It's basically turning it into a 22lr. Throughout the last decade or so, there have been severe shortages of 22lr ammo so this is a good alternative. The 1.6" accuracy leaves something to be desired. Wonder if those group sizes could be tighten up some to compete with regular 22lr rifle and ammo at 50yards?

[@chupatrupa8475]

Do your thing man, great videos.

[@PracticallySquared1]

Oldie but goodie. Love the video man. Gotta try some of those subs myself.

[@jpthomason]

Man that was scary quiet suppressed. Like "my wife better be good to me from here on in" scary suppressed.

[@yoteoboth8449]

Back in the good old days when powder, primers and bullets could be found.

[@daveb9370]

Very interesting. I have been pondering loading titegroup and trying subsonics @ 50 yds. You have made me want to try it. Might be a good pest load.

[@reelamor9950]

Thanks, was waiting for a sub video. Did a few for fun. I have a ton of trailboss.

[@pcbulletempire9872]

Be very very quiet I'm hunting wabbits

[@THutch556]

Great video, looks like a great time. Might make a good pest control or squirrel round.

[@casevideo9880]

I have shot with those powders for subsonic 223’s. I like Red Dot for my 223 subs. Please do another subsonic 223 video with Red Dot.

[@gilream]

Interesting...I have an AAC silencer for 22 rimfire and with my bolt action Savage 22 fvsr it is Hollywood quiet! I was a bit disappointed in the 300 blackout with suppressor...the metal roof of the firing line at our range may add to the noise but it's still louder than I like. Nice Video

[@jonjames4281]

This is great, my son was just asking me about subsonic 223 loads, I jokingly handed him a box of 22lr standard velocity rds. an said, here ya go. The look on his face was priceless. now I can show him this vid, even load some up for him. at least he can probably keep track of the brass with these.

[@user-ho5wz2mw6e]

Awesome work. Thank you very, very much )

[@tripplebeards3427]

I’ve found trail boss doesn’t geoup worth a darn in my rifles at 100 yard distances. Groups fall apart like yours after 25 yards. The powder works good for cast bullet pistol loads.

[@wildnorthadventures]

That was awesome I couldn’t stop giggling 🎉

[@garrettsteward7961]

Johnny I know this is an old video but I loved it! I think you should do 308 subsonic soon

[@mdaniels1980]

Reigning down silent sniper death lol nice video

[@docon1974]

Good fun video Johnny. Thanks for taking the time to make it. Just out of interest how far up the case did the trail boss come? Can't wait to try this with 69gr and 77gr smk's. If someone else watching this has tried heavier bullets than 55gr what made the best choice of bullet?

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

It was too far down into the case to even judge. Quickload says almost 50% for TrailBoss but it didn't seem like that much to me. It shows Clays=28% and TiteGroup=16%

[@religionispoison6838]

Johnny's Reloading Bench hey mate just a thought with the tumbling factor , maybe they were not tumbling but they just cut a different shaped hole due to the low velocity. Just food for thought??? Ps i do alot of sub loading myself and i have often thought the same things were happening . Need to get my hands on a phantom camera. Cheers mate keep up the good work

[@religionispoison6838]

@Danny Archer if there is a secondary explosion from un-uniform burn than 'maybe' but i would doubt it regarding the low powder weights used????

[@neilharris4462]

Cool video. Would make a pretty fun load for squirrels and such, especially in a short/light bolt action.

[@1k9sniper]

This an awesome video. Thank you for taking the time to make it. What would you recommend for a .308? Would you be able to create a video for us?

[@seantierney3]

I am glad you finally did a video that was just for fun. I was figuring you were going to load up some 38 special for your Henry and shoot some steel when you grew tired of load development. I don't have a suppressor but i really want to load up some of these now for my Troy PAR and shoot tin cans.

[@Spartan536]

Reloading is meant to be fun with safely experimenting with ballistics. Sure a .223 Subsonic is a glorified .22LR, that is not the point, the point here is pure NOVELTY. Great video like always and keep up the great work... Hope your retinas are still intact!

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

I was totally going to make a joke about not being able to aim because of spots in my vision, but these were so much fun I forgot.

[@elvisammo]

very cool JRB... Much enjoyed!

[@BoltActionReloading]

As always a interesting video. I know everyone seems to be critical of your first bob bullet video loading "slower" rounds but it seems that is where you found better accuracy? Seems for a plinking round who cares if its 3000 fps. 2500 and 3/4 MOA seems like a perfect combination to me. BTW I am interested how or what you needed to do to change the Forster seating stem for your 223 bullet seater die? Did you just have to call, send the die in? Interested how that gets handled. I just ordered some more myself and its always good to know what to expect if I ever have to call myself. Thanks again.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

That's a really great observation and I hadn't made that connection. The upcoming powder tests will give us a bunch more low velocity examples to test that theory. You might be on to something. I will let you know once I figure out the die. I expect them to just ship me a new seating stem but I will let you know regardless. The die also had a huge burr in it at the transition from the chamber part to the channel the stem slides in. I think I got most of it removed but I can't be sure. I might mention this to them and see if they will just replace the whole die.

[@briankite8887]

Be interesting to run this through a pistol length gas system and adjustable gas block to see if the gun cycles

[@boedude8496]

just curious as to why its kept to such a low pressure. shows around 4k when other powders go over 48k. surely tenths or even a half wouldnt spike that far

[@RandallMoore1955]

Iam still don't trust myself. Iam getting there. Thanks Johnny.

[@bigracer3867]

Nice, squirrel round>!

[@murphytoadster9864]

Weirdly enough there was an eclipse a day ago 😲 it's October 2023 and this video was 6 years ago. Weirddddd

[@nathanminich8549]

This was fantastic!

[@AvocaSingleTrack]

I tried this 55gr , cci400 small rifle primers , 16" bolt 1/8 twist , no suppressor elev 850ft , 35F . At 3.8gr TB I got one round out at 1015 FPS and the next shot was a stuck bullet. I cleared the squib, brushed and lubed the barrel and moved up to my 4gr loads. I got 2 more stuck bullets. I had no such problems in 300 BLK with 90gr and 110gr with TB ladders from 925 to 1070 FPS the same day . Not one squib . My 300 BLK loads chrono results agreed with what ive seen posted per each load...not sure what the 223 problem was but I just ordered some 1mg, 2mg, 5mg calibration weights. The one 223 round that did go was pretty quiet. Maybe 4.2gr TB be better ? Also have some 65 , 70 and 77gr to try next week.

[@fwa3387]

Hi Steve. I have been reloading for 20 years. I successfully loaded .308 subs using 8gr of Trail Boss with 150FMJ. Shooting out to 200 yards easily hitting steel with my suppressed Ruger Precision Rifle. Loaded some 223 rounds with 4 grains of Trail Boss with magnum primers and 55gr FMJ. Firing thru my Savage 223 LE model with Harvester Suppressor was not a fun experience. Lousy groups at 50 yards and WORST of all..... incomplete or slow burn occasionally. By slow burn ... primer strike followed by split second delay and a noise like a spurt/poof and watching the bullet exit the barrel and dropping into the dirt/grass about 25 yards instead of a "pop" and bullet hitting the paper at 50 yards.

[@surq0784]

Shit! I accidentally uses Clay's as Metamucil! Keep up the great work! I really enjoy your videos; keep 'em coming!

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

It really is a bizarre looking powder. In a pleasant way, I guess.

[@leadbulletjunkie2235]

any chance you could do a video using the clays powder to work up a load that would cycle your rifle? Ive got one kinda similar to your build with an adjustable gas block with a 16in barrel with a 1/8 twist and I use clays powder with just about all my pistol loads and I would love to see if its possible to use it as a plinking powder for my rifle. I dont have a chronograph or Id work it up myself

[@smokepole7525]

Great video Johnny! very enjoyable! Take care!

[@greenflame8398]

Might be worth working up that Tite Group load to 3.2 or 3.3 grains to get over 1,000 fps.

[@monster3478]

We just had another eclipse

[@rainmechanic]

Since the name of the game is achieving sub 1100 fps performance, I wonder if the objective wouldn't be better served by substitutings a heavier 77 grain bullet? I believe everything your trying to achieve here could be done better using a 77gr pill over (5 or 6?) grains of Clays. The heavier bullet should also allow for a more consistent burn rate due to higher chamber pressures. You give up nothing and gain everything.. Better terminal ballistics, higher chamber pressure, better burn characteristics, and with the possibly more stabilized 77 grain bullet, a high probability of better accuracy within the shortened limits of the cartridge.

[@AvocaSingleTrack]

That's what i was thinking. I tried this load with 55gr , 16" bolt, 1/8 , and was getting squibs.

[@gdog4323]

@@AvocaSingleTrack did you end up shooting a higher grain projectile with better success?

[@prepperbr]

thanks a lot man

[@OzarkSpirit]

I wonder if cast bullets, sized a bit over, would grab the rifling better to get you more in the ballpark.

[@SWMissouriOutdoors]

Old video but I am recreating a 22WMR type load with 45gr jhp 218 Bee bullets at 2250fps in a 223. Using Alliant 2400

[@tracycastleberry9040]

Injoyed. Wonder if a filler would help like when fire forming?

[@kennethberkley5501]

The good side of this is the 55 grn bullet over 36 or 41 on a long rifle..mass is still greater..

[@scottwilson1258]

We need to find a load that can run your action or my M90!!

[@mikemelina9607]

That was cool. It sounded quieter than a BB gun. There's your squirrel load.

[@TimKollat]

no need for any kind of wadding to fill the gap between powder and bullet? This should keep your pressure constant as well since it keeps the powder packed together rather than it loosely laying around inside the case. You may not get proper ignition

[@ApertureDG]

.308 Win subsonic? Please!)

[@GaryBlankenship96b40]

300 blk out is also good subsonic

[@hebrewhooligan5462]

I just loaded 200 rounds with 3gr of titegroup today. I use a intelladroper and it would throw over by 1 10th every other load. Even it was like are u sure you only want 3gr? lol its super weird going from rifle to pistol.

[@hebrewhooligan5462]

Just for an update for anyone reading. The Intelladroper is atchuley a great powder drop. The problem with it going over every other load was on me. I had done the powder calibration with the drop tube empty. If I throw 1 load to fill the tube then hit powder calibrate it works great every time.

[@Tony_Seed]

Trying this with heavier bullets would be interesting

[@Ghostrider-71]

I have shot some factory sub sonic .223 (Atomic) through an 18 inch barrel. It was so quiet it was unbelievable.

[@clinte9897]

Ghostrider71 F-14 what gr pill do they load ?

[@Ghostrider-71]

Clint E 77gr loaded to 1080fps. atomicammunition.com/ammunition/223remsubsonic.html

[@MyLonewolf25]

I wonder how this would do with say a 88 grain pill Set it pretty far back into the case to get under that 2.260 oal and it should help a good bit

[@SKIPPYISAAUSSIE]

$19 for trail boss, that's cheap even though it's in 255 gram canisters. Trailboss here in Aus only comes in 1kg tubs also 8208 last bottle I brought of both was $155. Powder is made here, yet we pay for it.

[@VincitOmniaVeritas7]

That’s a heavy .22lr you got there 😆

[@jeffh699]

I just ordered some 61gr tracer projectiles then found this video, I will be curious if they will ignite? Also, what is the twist rate on your barrel? Thanks

[@luxordeathbed]

Still waiting for the coveted cycling subsonic load that a company or reloader discovers. Companies have them right now (VERY few), but tight lipped.

[@Cholton222]

Nice vid dude. Lol. Love it. Its a big 22lr. Keep'em coming

[@henryvandervort9891]

Need a 223 sp at or under 2300fps who sells it thanks for all the great videos

[@robertshinenne1584]

Would you think this subsonic load with titegroup will be ok to shoot through a 22inch Mossberg MVP bolt action rifle? I would like to try some of this for sure:D. Thanks!

[@worldfamousgi86]

If you wanted to shoot quiet for some reason, and didn't want to pay for a conversion kit as well as the fouling and leading in the barrel and gas system is a valid reason for 223 sub? I don't use it, just an idea.

[@Rubicon-1]

Would you consider a filler such as polyester pillow stuffing to fill up the empty space in the case to keep the powder from sloshing around in the case?

[@hugobrantman6756]

Raw Cotton (loosely packed) would burn better than polyester and leave less 'smut'.

[@MrDrofinnah]

berrrrweeeeee intowesssting... thanks johnny...

[@jonleone777]

Now if you can get the weapon to cycle with subs,that would be awesome.

[@Oregun]

Awesome video!

[@Longshot762x51]

I want to squirrel hunt but I dont have a rimfire can. So for me this is basically a .22LR without the leading. 🤷‍♂️

[@solarfun2388]

Be a cool way to hunt squirrels with your ar

[@luketimmer6108]

Use this for cheap closer range practice

[@jimmyjohnson7041]

1072 is not subsonic........why you need suppressor if its subsonic ? And the accuracy ?

[@wesjwaandrews7524]

9mm!!!!! Loved this video though with the loads on Hodgson I could work my way up to a full power load using pistol powder

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

That would be a good way to blow your face off. These pistol powders are very fast burning. I would feel okay adjusting the recipe by a few tenths to tune in the exact velocity I wanted (1050-1100 optimally) but no more than that. Working up toward full power would be very dangerous.

[@wesjwaandrews7524]

Johnny's Reloading Bench We can't watch for pressure signs and symptoms? But there that darn learning curve goes again.

[@garrettowne]

Thank you for the video. I have the components but have been afraid to blow my face off. This makes me a feel a little better. I’m wanting to use Nosler 64gr Bonded Solid Base for a little more energy but it seems like most subsonic 223s are using 55gr bullets. Is this because heavier bullets are harder to stabilize at low velocity? Has anybody loaded heavier subsonic bullets? Would a heavier bullet increase the likelihood of the bolt being able to cycle?

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

I doubt it is about stability. My guess is that Hodgdon used 55gr FMJs because those are the cheapest and most plentiful bullets. Most people are going to use them as a novelty for plinking. You should be able to drop the charge weights just a touch and be fine with an additional 9gr of bullet, in my opinion. The charge weights are already very small, so don't drop them too much! This is a great excuse to buy a choronograph if you don't already own one. I don't think any 223 subsonics have a chance of cycling the action. It's been a long time since I filmed this video but I seem to remember that the bolt was barely moving.

[@SilverHunterIsHunted]

Can't wait to get my speedier I'm so I can make some of these. I've been saving a bunch of my 55gr fmj to make some subs with. Looks like I'll need an extra .2gr of Titegroup for my 16" barrel

[@TimKollat]

how do these sound without the suppressor? I can't always tell over a video

[@thesilverbullitt02]

What about using small pistol primers with this combo?

[@hebrewhooligan5462]

Hey also I had a question about .223 subs and you kinda touched on it a little bit, but what about using 80.5gr or 90gr projectiles so it takes up more of the case when put to 2.260 oal? would that work?

[@James28R]

don't see why not, only downside would be cost. would be a lot more powerful though.

[@miguelperaza6615]

I think the optimum grouping could maybe be achieved by mimicking the old .22LR top velocity , which is 1240fps 🤔 what you think 🤨

[@meetmyballs]

Hi, anyone know reloads data with tinstar N32C

[@preachersdayoff]

Ballpark is a great word, I use ballpark all the time. Ballpark makes great hot dogs too. Although I've never eaten a hot dog in an actual ballpark.

[@T1374]

How do low mass bcgs perform in cycling these?

[@AgileK9TopDog]

Sounds like the old 22 shorts we used at the fun park.

[@michaeladams7272]

Did any of those round cycle your action?

[@james-im1sj]

Have you played around with the 223 sub till you could get them to cycle in ar 15 ...? Supersonic they call it I guess.

[@RJ-sr5dv]

Please tell us about your barrel clamp

[@jerrylansbury9558]

Subsonic is below 1050 ft per second. Why you need a suppressor if its subsonic ?

[@alna2530]

The suppressor soaks up the expanding gasses from the shell so there's no or very little noise from the round being fired. TL/DR version. It makes the quiet round quieter.

[@allegianceammunition824]

How about a 556 Full cycling subsonic that can cycle 7'-16' uppers at 975 FPS using a 93 frangible, 95gr Solid lead core a 110gr and 130gr mag fed jacketed frangible

[@MyLonewolf25]

Allegiance Ammunition They make those in 224 cal?? I thought those were for 300blk

[@Drpermer]

Honestly, fffg pyrodex is the way to go in .223!

[@alna2530]

What GR would work with something like that?

[@haritchie3460]

Less talk be good just personal thought. Group went well.

[@mattdee9296]

1:12 twist, who has a barrel like that these days

[@imeprezime1285]

With 1:8 twist he wouldn't have oblong target holes

[@Turboy65]

It is absurd, it is comical, it's weak sauce and the reason why .300 Blackout exists. But it's fun to explore it. Good enough!