Johto Pokemon that should NOT be used in a GSC Playthrough

[@Genoci]

Let me know if you came from the RBY video! If you haven't watched that one yet, you can here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pl7Rg3-bpsamfMU

[@JayFallout3]

I have to disagree with the Marill line only because it would make a great Jobber type Pokemon, it can learn Strength, surf, Waterfall and Rocksmash.

[@snowyhyper2352]

This video fucking sucks

[@lazerbeam134]

@@JayFallout3 in Gen 3 Azumarill with Huge Power is pretty solid

[@kyubi_101]

Excuse me Mr.Genoci, is there like a pokemon chart for the Gen 2 mons? I know you did it before on your first video.

[@hv433]

I'm surprised you mentioned Girafarig for Stantler, but didn't for Espeon. Girafarig STOMPS Espeon in terms of benefits: STAB Return, decent Attack for Shadow Ball, Earthquake, Iron Tail, no need for Friendship, and the same time of availability - right before Morty. It also conveniently has an immunity to Morty, the one Gym that gives Kadabra/Zam a remote sense of trouble. The only issue is that it's not available in Crystal.

[@strain42]

Okay, but hear me out. I ALWAYS get a Gastly to use Mean Look on a female Phanpy and then breed that Phanpy with a male Wooper because Phanpy can get Water Gun through breeding, which while mostly useless, is quite possibly one of the most adorable mental images of all time! Just a little Phanpy spraying water through its trunk. Toot toot.

[@Genoci]

I feel like this should be art in a Pokemon card

[@CaptClaymor]

This reminds me gen 1 playthroughs with nidoking, i always teach him water gun when I get it in Mt moon and he's fully evolved at that point, and just completely overpowered compared to anything you will face. I like to imagine him just spitting on pokemon and it one shots them lol.

[@TehSeksyManz]

That is super cute, lol

[@expressive_mechanisms]

aww

[@dungeonmaster201]

Or having squirtle with confusion.

[@syaieya]

As an adult it's so easy to poke holes in the Johto roster, but as a kid it didn't feel like half of these pokemon even showed up in a natural playthrough. So the ones that did would get taken on as a novelty. With the levels being so low across the board after mahogany town the move pools weren't exciting but we weren't exactly pressed for power. I think because of that though, the gen 2 games end up feeling like a shared experience. The starter being an unstoppable force, Togetic showing up eventually, Ampharos because mareep is cute and electric on it's own is real good, strong bug from the contest, cool color Gyarados making me question if I really did see that grey snubbull earlier.

[@JayFallout3]

With such a low rate of encounter you probably wont run into any of those Pokemon. I have played Crystal so many times. Really you are given decent Pokemon already, a starter, shiny Garados, Dratini, and Sudowoodo. You can also just buy better Pokemon too.

[@josephbulkin9222]

Electric to me always felt like a one trick pony. Never liked the type. As for power, if you are being pitted against the stronger gen 1 pokemon(Gyarados, Dragonite) you ARE pressed for power.

[@taputrainer8463]

@@josephbulkin9222 At least Ampharos was bulky instead of speedy which was a first for the time. It also gets fire punch which was a first for electric types (until Electabuzz was caught with all three) and pairs well with the other starters in terms of coverage

[@PMar797]

​@@taputrainer8463Magneton was a bulky electric type in gen 1, so Ampharos wasn't a first for the time

[@taputrainer8463]

@@PMar797 Wow that’s really bad I forgot that

[@jjsponge1202]

I feel like some of the Gen 2 Pokemon were used more for marketing purposes, but in the games, they felt like an afterthought. Doesn’t help that they were easily overshadowed by Gen 1 Pokemon. I’m just glad that the later generations did the Gen 2 Pokemon justice with new evolutions, regional forms, Megas, etc.

[@Genoci]

That's also a thought I had while making this video. It feels to me like they made 100 designs and then realized they needed stats, moves, etc.

[@pikminologueraisin2139]

and with most of them having that kawaii style I feel like they were mostly intended to be sold as goodies

[@cmbaz1140]

That is not "doing them justice"... Having them become actually usable and viable on their own without an evolution etc is what would have been "justice"...

[@B463L]

*cries in Meganium*

[@Jugement]

Personally I think you're giving too much credit to early Game Freak. I think they just didn't theorycraft the actual movesets of the mons they designed in an optimal use scenario and just gave them moves based on their subjective idea of what made sense for them to have Fire dog will have flamethrower and bite. Metal bird will have Steelwings and Fly. Simple Modern GF places a greater emphasis on usability and balance, but it's still absolutely not their core design focus. Many new mons still have noticable holes even in their optimal movesets, which clearly suggests that they do not approach the crafting of movepools with it in mind for most Pokémons

[@grunkleg.2934]

Worth noting, getting evolution stones in Gen 2, especially Gold and Silver, is stupid difficult. You either need to talk to Bill's grandpa in Kanto, or if you're playing Crystal, figure out which trainer to add to your PokeGear that gives the respective stone. Genuinely laughable they thought that would be a wise idea

[@ianover6838]

That's when you traded with red/blue, but that system really sucks now.

[@Genoci]

@grunkleg.2934 When using the DST-trick in Crystal it's not that bad to get evolution stones once you get Fly. It's a dumb mechanic for sure, but not as bad as grinding evolution items with a 2% chance.

[@rarestpepe98]

​@@GenociI only spent an hour farming Magnemite next to Ecruteak to get my Scizor and Steelix before post-game 😭😭

[@MarioMastar]

@@Genoci True, but using an exploit you'd only learn about online isn't really how "casual" players play the game. If you're deliberately grinding for it, then things like rarity isn't an issue as Dunsparse looked like it would've gotten something. Plus while friendship evolution is slow, you kind of forgot this is a "Casual" playthrough. The Eevee you get in Goldenrod city (the third gym) WILL have max friendship and learn Bite before the Elite 4 and Espeon with powerful psychic AND Dark coverage is nothing to sneeze at with Will as an opponent (plus Espeon can deal with 3 of the 4 E4 members on it's own in that regard).

[@Genoci]

@MarioMastar I get your point, but we're not playing these games in 2001 anymore. Players look up things unless they're purposefully doing a blind run. Resetting your clock from the menu is a feature I didn't know existed as a kid. There are many Pokemon that you can only encounter during certain time frames, which can be very annoying depending on when you play (like, who the hell plays between 4-10 AM during a weekday?). And then you also have certain events that are linked to specific days of the week. For a blind run, I could easily write off mons like Lapras, Pokemon who depend on Return, Bug Contest mons, ... And on the top of my head, Pokemon that only appear in those rare headbutt trees is also something that can easily be found with an online tool nowadays. Imagine trying out every single tree in Ilex Forest until you encounter a Heracross. Without such a tool, Heracross would definitely make an appearance in this video.

[@essentures]

Kenya is the single strongest pokémon in any GSC playthrough lmao

[@musiyevonchilla6769]

Thank u warden for trusting a thief 😂

[@ASteveVaiFan]

Kenya look at deeznuts!?

[@edwardnowakowski5990]

I will say, friendship evolutions are WAY more easily accessible than stone evolutions in gen 2, especially if you aren’t planning on googling which npc you need the number of or doing the daylight savings trick.

[@taipaulsen4347]

And the stone phone call was only in crystal iirc

[@portwise23]

Yes, though gen 2's friendship mechanics are the worst of the series. Pokemon require 220 friendship to evolve, and start with 70. That leaves 150 points to fill by doing things that give diminishing returns, the higher the friendship. At 200 or more friendship, the highest friendship gain options are worth less than half their base gain, and certain things like using battle items or TMs don't give any. Along with the soothe bell not existing, gen 2 has awful mechanics for a core part of the gameplay

[@GreatestLeaf]

​@@portwise23 ngl, I also just don't like friendship evolutions in general... It feels like they take far too long, with the only exception being when I use Crobat, bc you get it as a Zubat, meaning it has a good 15-17 levels before it's ready to evolve, and it'll have a much closer friendship level than a pokemon that IMMEDIATELY needs friendship to evolve when you catch it. Especially considering a lot of the friendship evolutions that I can think of are weaker pokemon like Pichu, Cleffa, Igglybuff, Budew... It's just a hassle imo.

[@reillywalker195]

Jumpluff is a fast status-setter. I've used it in a playthrough and done well with it. The trick is to _not_ use Jumpluff to deal damage directly except via Mega or Giga Drain-or perhaps Headbutt for its flinch chance. Getting a Sun Stone is _easier_ than getting a Leaf Stone in Gold and Silver, so Bellossom is worth running if you're not playing Crystal.

[@danielcornwall1585]

Jumpluff goes well purely off the back of Sleep Powder+Leech Seed, a combo I don't believe occurs in any mon's moveset after Gen 2, probably for that reason. So, it's a grass type that is good....but despite the typing, not really because of it. You don't need any offensive grass moves, and are really better off keeping Tackle purely for the PP.

[@Genoci]

@reillywalker195 I know Jumpluff's role, but I'd rather not play exclusively with Sleep Powder + Leech Seed + Headbutt on one Pokemon all game long. It's great for competitive use, but I prefer offense over slowly whittling down the opponent. We're also speaking about the final evolution here. The road from Hoppip to Jumpluff is not good. Even if it had Absorb or Mega Drain early on, it still would appear on the list. Johto is just that bad for Grass types.

[@massivelegend6610]

Yeah I always use Skiploom to beat Miltank easily

[@musiyevonchilla6769]

I used Jumpluff in that exact way - flinch city with stun spore, leech seed, headbutt & Giga Drain

[@TheSandwhichman108]

Speaking of funny stories I heard a story about a guy who beat whitney in gold using an eggexcute. The strat was- Use leech seed to recover health Reflect to half dmg Sleep powder to put miltank to sleep And then spammed confusion.

[@ShneekeyTheLost]

As a kid, I actually enjoyed Bellossom's removal of the Poison type. Remember, in Gen 1, the Bulbasaur, Bellsprout, and Oddish lines were all grass/poison. And poison was a death sentence in Gen 1 because of the overwhelming power of Psychic in that generation. Besides, the only typing weak to Poison in Gen 2 (since bug was removed for some reason?) is Grass, which is practically nonexistent unless you picked Totodile as your starter. So losing the poison typing was, in my opinion, a buff. Also why I liked Umbreon. Immunity to psychic, I felt, was worth its downsides. Remember, this is still Gen 2, before fighting types started popping off, and I still considered psychic opponents to be the most dangerous.

It would have been great if they gave Bellossom Fairy Type in Gen VI. Getting x4 weakness to Poison would have totally worth it if it gained an advantage against Dragon or Dark-Types.

[@gabrieltyranitar647]

Bug in Generation 2 was still very weak, so it's still a advantage to Dark.

[@InfinitySevens]

@@gabrieltyranitar647 Bug is still one of the worse types to have to this day (at least in comp play), but resisting Bug is pretty nice to have because of U-turn being common.

[@milliethesillie]

@@gabrieltyranitar647 bruh dark hits grass neutrally and poison doesn't resist dark what are you going on about

[@darkdragon7210]

Still WISH they didn't sack Tsumubitto!

[@starmangalaxy2001]

23:06 While not recommended, this is suprisingly likely to happen as friendship is slow to grow in GSC so unless you were to minmax, Eevee might hit that level. Mine did while I was prepping for Elite 4 and hey, at least Espeon with Bite was a good Will counter. Edit: Also Vaporeon is once again only available before Kanto in Crystal, evolution stones basically don't exist in GS.

[@Genoci]

@@starmangalaxy2001 I personally wouldn't want to stick with a first stage Pokemon until the E4, unless it evolved into something worthwhile.

[@musiyevonchilla6769]

In Crystal u can get them somewhat reliable

[@starmangalaxy2001]

@@musiyevonchilla6769 Yeah, that's why Vaporeon specifically specifies GS and not GSC

[@MarioMastar]

@@Genoci but...that's not how people play Pokemon casually...at all. That's literally like looking up a speedrun and making your first game based on that. literally EVERYONE who played the game when it came out got Espeon or Umbreon as a pay off for sticking wtih Eevee, an already very popular pokemon. No one just chucked it in the box and said "Nope, it's a first stage, NOT worth it". I mean heck ABRA and the beloved Kadabra requires switch training to get to 16. You think a lot of kids went through that in the playground days? That's a very new-age way of thinking about this game. Like something I'd expect of an HG/SS run which has the poklethon giving you stones after goldenrod and a LOT more options for the early game due to new moves and such. but literally NO ONE passed on Espeon cause "Eevee's a first stage pokemon and thus not worth using". that's ridiculous....

[@Genoci]

@MarioMastar I specify in my intro how I do casual playthroughs and who this video is catered towards. The RBY video seemed to have that part poorly explained, based on the comments on that video. Catching an Abra or getting one from the Game Corner is two gyms earlier than receiving an Eevee and you can give it the elemental punches as early as Abra, so switch training is absolutely not necessary. My point with Kadabra vs Espeon was that Kadabra pays off big time with very minimal investments (level 16 with Confusion and elemental punches). I also see many people mentioning how useful Espeon with Psybeam/Bite is. Of course I understand why. But if you get an Espeon naturally, by playing the game, a lot will have happened before that. A lot of things Kadabra will already have been able to contribute to. I'm going to keep it at that, but that's mainly my view on it.

[@andreapareti324]

This just further highlights how Pokémon is also a collectathon, and Gen 2 took this to a whole new level: rather than falling into power creep and making the new Pokémon mostly or outright directly better than what came before, you have stuff like Xatu and Misdreavus which are obviously overall worse than Alakazam and Gengar but are instead used as rare, location-exclusive encounters to reward thorough players trying to complete their Dex. This doesn't mean that I didn't like this video, however, quite the contrary! I like seen these Pokémon comparisons strictly from the in-game usability perspective; in that sense, I'd love for you to continue with these, Gen 3 and onward!

[@Genoci]

Gotta catch 'em all was the name of the game back in the day. I feel like they've taken it into a different direction nowadays. I really like Xatu's design, but it's a Pokemon that doesn't even have the basics to perform like an average Psychic type. Every Pokemon should naturally learn at least one 60BP STAB move at a decent level.

[@andreapareti324]

@@Genoci They've indeed taken a different direction since then, and they've indeed fallen into power creep to a great degree... I personally found the old direction much more engaging than this one, including tbh more limited movepools, but maybe that's just me, as I can understand how especially the movepool part might not be for everybody.

[@cosmictraveler1146]

@@andreapareti324bad move learn sets aren’t bad if tms weren’t single use and rare pre gen 5, it can patch up some spotty sets

[@andreapareti324]

@@cosmictraveler1146 TMs can certainly help, but they were also pretty limited, back then; I do think making them infinite went a bit too far in the other direction, though, as it trivializes the game too much; making them all buyable (instead of just a few) after finding them once would have been preferable, imo.

[@Shyguymask]

The thing about Johto is that since there is no powercreep from later gens, their stats and movepools in the context of gen 2 games are actually not really bad in all cases at all. Meganium is pretty bulky for gen 2 standards and it's able to kill stuff just fine, it's the worst Johto starter but it's still very much viable. Jumpluff is very fast in-game and its support movepool can be significantly useful if you find yourself struggling. Zubat is basically unusable early but you're vastly underestimating Crobat, it is extremely fast while also being decently bulky. It's able to damage and kill stuff with Wing Attack just fine and Confuse Ray is very useful against hard opponents. Insane speed, solid bulk, average at best damage, good typing, it sums up to being a good Pokemon. Dunsparce has a cheese Glare + Headbutt strategy to be actually good against later boss trainers, but as you said it's luck based and just finding Dunsparce by itself is a grindfest. I could keep going but the point is that people exaggerate how "bad" a lot of Johto mons are and when judging Johto games on their own, the viability of the mons should be judged based on the context of the game itself, not modern competitive Pokemon or whatever. 29:33 I'm pretty sure Sludge Bomb TM is obtained after getting rid of Team Rocket in Mahogany Town, not Radio Tower which is a lot later in the game.

[@muratkulci9437]

I think the real problem with certain Pokemon I just that they are outclassed. With meganium. It’s genuinely just a fine pokemon to use, every starter is tbh. Good stats for how early you get it with a decent movepool. But the problem is that the other 2 starters aren’t just a little better, but allot better. To the degree that you should only really use meganium if you like it. Also other grass types like victreebel and vileplume (if you can get the leaf stone via phone call) are just mostly better. Jumpluff has its niche but can get very frustrating, with starting out slow and having headbutt as its only serious attack. I have used it and leech seed + sleep powder will make everything strong. But only recommended if you play on an emulator with speed up lol. Also it’s niche of sleep + powder gets done by vileplume or bellossom. They are slower, but outside of that outclass it in so many ways. crobat is another pokemon who has a use but just gets outclassed. Sludge bomb is only in the remakes so it’s has no poison type moves (only hidden power but that realistically won’t happen). It only learns wing attack at level 30, by then you probably already get the fly hm. So the gyms he is theoretically strong against he won’t really be doing much. It will end up just using fly, return and bite which is special (moves like steel wing, giga drain and hidden power are literally the only other “serious” moves it gets). So it just end up being a regular flying type attacker with normal type coverage. Who starts very very slow and also annoying to evolve. It will genuinely outspeed everything, and has respectable defenses . But its just so outclassed by fearow who hits harder with the normal stab, gets a better flying type move in drill peck, and is so much easier to raise and use. So there really isn’t any point to use Crobat other than wanting to use him specifically. And it’s not just these pokemon, I have played crystal a thousand times and can confidently say that some of these pokemon have no reason to be used over other pokemon other than a personally wanting to use them.

[@TheOuchGuy]

just use return man paraflinching is a copium for ingame

[@muratkulci9437]

@@TheOuchGuy I think it’s meant for really early game, return is only a tm in goldenrod if you have high enough affection which you most likely don’t. Dunsparce is just really good in early game in general, those base stats combined with rage + early glare and later on headbutt tm make it very solid for early game. When you get return you should just ditch dunsparce. Plus paraflinch cheese does happen, especially against miltank lol.

[@brendan6555]

​@@muratkulci9437sludge bomb IS available in GSC, same place you get it in the remakes. It's even better for crobat in the OG games since it's a physical move.

[@Shyguymask]

@@TheOuchGuy Using basic strategy in a strategy game is "coping"? What? And against strong foes, Dunsparce performs significantly better with paraflinch than with spamming Return, I literally recorded evidence of this lol. With above average luck it can outright singlehandedly kill Kingdra on its own among other things, even when lower than that its contribution is at worst comparable to mons that are considered "good".

[@matthewroberts198]

Looking them up, I wonder if Gamefreak wanted people to maybe use the new breeding mechanic. Cause some of the Pokemon in this vid (not all) can get stab from Egg Moves. Like Forretress can get Pin Missile as an Egg move from Beedrill, Gligar gets Wing Attack from Scyther and Hitmontop get Hi Jump Kick from Hitmonlee. Still an issue yes cause the parent Pokemon has to be a high level to get those moves (Beedrill Lv35 and Scyther Lv30, Hitmonlee decent at Lv26) but it could technically still make them a bit better. Edit: Playing Crystal on the virtual console a couple years ago I did this with Skarmory to give it Drill Peck from a Fearow.

[@syaieya]

@@matthewroberts198 gamefreak has always had a bit of "if you go down this path and turn over these rocks, i swear theres a cool something" not everything is useful or entirely baked but they try to reward experimentation.

[@alicevioleta3184]

people miss the point of pokemon: explore and have fun. i fucking HATE "this isn't viable within 5 minutes it sucks" types. impatient mother fuckers who cannot get immersed and have an adventure are not who this series was made for.

[@magma41158]

I actually have. In a few playthroughs, used a meganium that learned ancient power from breeding

[@MarioMastar]

@@syaieya Yeah but very cryptically as if assuming you'll be playing these games for YEARS trying things. It took them til Gen 6 to FINALLY explain what EVs were and that IVs exist rather than just telling you "Some pokemon are different when you catch them" and whatever Proteins and the like were supposed to do. "It said rose my attack yet it looks the same...and why can't I use any more of ANY of these vitamins? am I missing something?" Gen 8 is the first generation where they actually explained ALL the rules and removed any hidden mechanics so we all could FINALLY understand what we were doing. XD

[@yesthisislyra]

​@MarioMastar My Black and White game guide was kind enough to explain how EVs and IVs work in the Battle Subway section, so at least Game Freak would let you know if you paid them extra for a book 😂

[@Bearded_Bream]

As someone who's doing a current run in Crystal with a team that includes Meganium, Donphan, and Ariados, I've never felt so attacked by a video that I wholeheartedly agree with 😂

[@starmangalaxy2001]

35:35 I can immediately tell you what Gamefreak was thinking, these pokemon aren't really meant for you to use, but for breeding and trading to other players, this was still during pokemania after all.

[@SuperKingLeoGAMES]

I agree. The best runs for me were when I had someone to trade with along the way. And they introduced breeding so it's fair to assume that it should be explored in full. This game felt more multiplayer than single player.

[@starmangalaxy2001]

@@SuperKingLeoGAMES Yeah. That being said, since Pokemania is done and over with and most players don't trade, I absolutely understand romhacks implementing them into the Johto region... I just don't think that some of the pokemon being locked to Kanto is a fault or anything.

[@costby1105]

More to give players something new to catch in Kanto would be my guess. These games weren't that far removed from Gen 1 and people could trade from Gen before the fourth Gym unlike Gens 4 and 5.

[@trainern6601]

i don't think you should use friendship evolutions as a negative of a pokemon as that doesn't affect the availability of the pokemon, yes its a bit of a hassle but if you do get it the earliest you can, it does perform allright for most of them

[@mismagia]

I mean in gen3/4 where it doesn't take 60 years to gain enough friendship sure but gen2 friendship is awful so it's definitely a negative

[@musiyevonchilla6769]

Did u play the Gen 2 games as a kid / teen before YT were a thing Believe me, finding out how the friendship stuff works was a pain, while u dont have to think about anything in case of Kadabra

[@goldenduck7000]

Friendship evos even for kids getting into the Pokémon games nowadays is really confusing, we have guides and videos now, but even now and specially BACK THEN, it was impossible to figure how to properly evolve a Pokémon with friendship evolution

[@trainern6601]

this video is taking into account that the player know what he's getting into, this isn't supposed to be about teams you had as a kid. the player knows how to make friendship evolutions, they can grind for it and get it before a lot of things. also another thing i disagree with the video is an earlier mon being shafted for a pokemon you get later even when they're quite serviceable, like dunsparce, it's an amazing mon for the first part of the game, it can carry you until you find a better normal type, so why is it unusable?

[@musiyevonchilla6769]

@@trainern6601 he 7s talking about CASUAL gameplay, so no "grown nerd who knows which tram he picks" gameplay but more like "little Timmy gets his 1st game ever" type of gameplay. So there is no way little Timmy does have any knowleadge about friendship evolution

[@Majora_T]

I don’t mind the Zubat grind. In GSC, I’d run Crobat as a slow killer. Toxic, confuse ray, protect, fly. Granted, he’s not much of a tank but give it leftovers and now we’re talking!

[@-1.3.3.7-]

My crobat had this exact same moveset 23 years ago in Pokemon Stadium 2 lmao. It was better than people would think.

[@musiyevonchilla6769]

Great set 👍 I git my very 1st Crobat by accident bc I didnt understand how friendship evolutions did work

[@NeoAstrisk]

Female crobat with attractive is a amazing tank

[@septum_funk]

Crobat is one of the best gen 2 pokémon imo. Very powerful moves and cool design

[@gavinsummers618]

Playing Gold last year I caught a Golbat and the friendship took some time, but teaching it one good poison move and it's all set to be an unstoppable beast in post game

[@b1acksteve]

I think the biggest big brain movie is to make a new pokemon type (dark), then lock 80% to post elite 4 then lock half of that 80% to after 90% of post elite 4

[@EuroMIX2]

And making it a Special type when pretty much every Dark move and Pokémon are Physical-leaning

[@TheAzulmagia]

Not only can you give the Cianwood Shuckle back, he'll let you keep it if you have its friendship high enough. Also, you don't need to clear the Radio Tower to get Sludge Bomb. Just the Mahogany base.

[@starmangalaxy2001]

3:25 This may be true for Crystal and the remakes, but this is notably not true for the original Gold and Silver, which do not have the phone call gifts. If you want a leaf stone you need to go to Kanto. And when comparing Bellossom to Gloom, the comparison is more advantageous.

[@genarftheunfuni5227]

I still disagree with Espeon being "outclassed by Kadabra", because at the very least it has the capability of ACTUALLY taking hits, unlike Kadabra who just takes the "glass" part of Glass Cannon to a whole new level. Besides, Espeon has unique tools like Curse + Baton Pass if you want to open up the moveslots of a Curse user for more coverage.

[@reillywalker195]

Espeon is also obtainable without trading and a better Pokémon to use than Kadabra, so it's a solid choice for a pure Psychic-type and worth evolving the gift Eevee from Bill into in a Gen II playthrough.

[@MrtheFckface]

I mean to be fair, who really cares about taking hits if you're so much faster and stronger than your opponent that you'll never get hit, which is basically what kadabra and Alakazam do and do very well.

[@Genoci]

@genarftheunfuni5227 Kadabra is powerful enough to score OHKOs on many Pokemon. In my previous video, other people also pointed out that Kadabra was lacking in bulk, but does that even matter if you KO the opponent before they can touch you? And Baton Pass + Curse is a bit overhyped imo. The movepools in these game are quite lacking, even if you count breeding. Most of the time, I have a 4th moveslot that's filled by a subpar move that I barely use, so might as well give that physical attacker Curse.

[@matthewpippin2502]

There definitely is merit in playing with different mons and strategies to help keep the game feeling more interesting and fresh, but for the purpose of ranking effectiveness for in game playthroughs, every other strategy pales in comparison to "Go first and OHKO"

[@Billie-zx5vf]

Yep, dark glasses bite and it's got a strong dark move, psybeam smokes everything, there's hardly any dark types to face, Espeon is the best psychic type to get lol

[@Shyguymask]

After doing some in-game tests I can even more confidently say you underestimate Crobat a ton in particular, Golbat with Bite ravages Morty's gym, and then Crobat with Confuse Ray, its decent bulk & amazing speed lets it defeat many threatening mons like Clair's Kingdra and Karen's Houndoom on its own. Depending on the matchup it performs on par if not better than the supposed "superior" flying types. Friendship evos aren't even difficult or particularly tedious to reach.

[@FrenzyFanboy]

I love how you came out of retirement for this video lol

[@timesup6302]

Yeah i would just feed my my friendship mons vitamins and do some battles. Never had a problem getting my espeon

[@MarioMastar]

@@timesup6302 Yeah as I told him, the Espeon part of the video was just flat out wrong.... Espeon is one of the more powerful options in the game and it's REALLY not hard to get an Eevee's friendship up if you use the FREE one you get in GOLDENROD throughout the game. Heck I had to make sure I didn't evolve to Espeon BEFORE it got Bite so it'd have a powerful dark move (cause dark was special then, making Espeon's bite the STRONGEST dark move before Kanto, as the only other option was Umbreon who had paltry offenses and the other dark types are kanto only and Kadabra doesn't learn bite). Yeah it may outclass Espeon in elemental coverage and such.... but this is a CASUAL playthrough, not a min max... and I certainly don't remember NOT getting an Espeon when I played casually cause "friendship takes too long". (though in mine I got an umbreon on accident cause I didn't realize I was playing at night when it evolved but it's fine.)

[@pepsibIue]

I apologize for having nothing clever to say but I really like the graphics used

[@AlfredoPuente8]

Basically all Johto Pokémon getting new evolutions, show how underpower they were.

[@bleh491]

Quick correction about the water stone for vaporeon, its only obtainable (rare chance) in Crystal by battling fisherman tully after getting his phone number. In gold and silver, its completely unobtainable till kanto.

[@yoshineitor]

The reason why people loved Breelom on RSE is the obvious "non-starter grass types SUCKED" as Breelom was a fast offensively oriented grass type, something not seen in previous gens.

[@danielgloyd4529]

17:58 Did you know if you raise Shuckle's happiness high enough, he won't take it back and let's you keep it. I agree he ies way too slow and annoying to use for anyone without patience. However, Shuckle is great in Crystal's Battle Tower if you're into it. Sandstorm Toxic Rest Wrap will kill or outstall anything that isn't a Nidoking/queen or steel type.

[@zacharysavoy6138]

I know nostalgia is a powerful drug but I don’t know why people look back on gen 2 so fondly. The distribution of the Pokémon and the leveling was such an issue. The only thing I liked about gen 2 was getting to do gen 1 afterward.

[@TwilitBeholder]

Hi, nostalgic Gen 2 fan here. It's because going from Gen 1 to these new games when they first released were absolutely *mind-blowing*. Being the first mainline games to be in FULL COLOR, it looked amazing. Back then, color on handhelds was a new thing so it was our first time seeing pokemon in-game with their colored sprites and not just from guides/books/anime. Imagine going from R/B/Y and then seeing G/S/C where the pokemon look colorful and had animations for the very first time. On top of that, all the new mechanics we take for granted now (Eggs, Day/Night cycles, shinies, Happiness evolutions, Dark and Steel mons, connection features like GBC infrared, etc) were so revolutionary for their time. It made us so much more curious and excited to test all the "playground conspiracies". We didn't care if the stats or moves on pokemon were bad; we just wanted to use the cool new pokemon! And then, the storyline felt way more involved and interesting with little side events to make it feel like we got to stop and have our own little adventures besides fighting gym leaders! AND THEN, they gave us a whole ass post game to play with. We got our new game AND basically got to play in Kanto all over again. To a child, this was a MASSIVE game. What I'm trying to describe though is that back in the 90's/early 00's, games were still evolving. What seems so outdated and "bad" in retrospect was genuinely cutting edge in that time. It was such a huge leap in technology and as children, it left a lasting impression on us. It really is a time in gaming we can't ever experience again.

[@aminadabbrulle8252]

Wait, so you're saying that there are Johto Pokemon in Johto?

[@starmangalaxy2001]

8:11 I know these aren't exactly gonna blow anyone's socks off but high Power moves are a rarity anywhere in Johto, with really the exception of the water type. I mean the cyndaquil line has to cope with Flame wheel until it hits Typhlosion, and Fire Punch until it hits level 60. The only thing that Zubat really would want is for Wing attack to be before it evolves since it can't rely on Headbutt like most pokemon can. Edit: Actually, there's the big Achilles heel, Golbat doesn't actually get Fly, only Crobat does, which means that unless you get that evolution quickly, your bat won't actually have access to fly and you'll have to surf out of town.

[@ToxicWyvern1]

It seems that, at least in terms of raw stats and movepool, most Gen2 Pokemon are decent, or at least on par with the average Gen1 Pokemon. Many of them have limited movepools and middling stats but so do most Gen 1 Pokemon. Even the issue of Gen2 Pokemon often being behind new mechanics like headbutt trees and swarms is understandable from a lore perspective and help as more engaging ways to obtain Pokemon. Though nothing needed to be locked to the post game. . The real problem is that Game Freak’s Kanto obsession rears it’s ugly head for the first time, because gen1 Pokémon are so common, the very small handful of completely busted Kanto Pokémon that even most Gen 1 Pokemon couldn’t compete with, end up overshadowing many Gen 2 Pokemon Obviously some Gen2 Pokemon weee just plain undercooked, like Unown and Yanma. But the majority of Gen 2 Pokemon could be “fixed” by giving them some freakin’ breathing room and saving the more overbearing Gen 1 Pokemon for later. Put Abra later Have Misdreavus be in Sprout tower instead of the Gastly line Have Rocky holding a metal coat so you get Steelix (though in this case the trade might have to happen later in game) Just let Belossum be a strong single stage you can catch near Ecruteak instead of tacking it to the end of the oddish line it has nothing in common with Let the pokemail be carried by Murkrow or even Delibird instead of Spearow.

[@reillywalker195]

@@ToxicWyvern1 I'm of the mindset that the evolution items introduced in Gen II and onward shouldn't have required trading: they should've either been usable just like evolution stones or required Pokémon to level up while holding them to evolve.

[@BloxyReimu]

@@reillywalker195 Yeah, true. That makes them really awful to use, most fangames make them just regular evo items.

[@octopi3018]

0:50 I was just thinking "Hmm... Fearow must be their favorite Pokemon" 😂

[@Genoci]

I prefer Dodrio, but it's available quite late.

[@TheFatestPat]

I don't care how long I have to ride my bike in a circle, I'm using an Espeon. Karen knows what I'm talking about.

[@DrCoeloCephalo]

Karen talks big after she loses and beforehand says Dark Pokemon are sttong. People that misuse that quote ignore alot of context, don't they?

[@TheFatestPat]

@DrCoeloCephalo yes the leader of the elite four who uses a vile plume and a murkrow. Clearly I am missing the context of this situation.

[@DrCoeloCephalo]

Part of the issue with Pokemon being so easy is that it advertises the journey as something only the best of the best should pursue. Being a Pokemon Master or a Champion is touted as a big deal. So when the game becomes harder to actually be consistent with that, it ends up trivializing so many monsters with the game's awful overlap issues. The reason THAT is an issue is because Pokemon ALSO advertises itself with the idea each monster is unique and has its own strengths to stand out. As we know, this is just not the case and even I made an essay detailing this. Your video essays just go into greater detail on these contradictions.

[@xL0stKIlah]

It is the case. With the right play and or predictions you can make any pokemon work. Pokemon actually benefits from being highly simplistic

[@DrCoeloCephalo]

@xL0stKIlah Play a better designed game sometime. Yo-Kai Watch games have way more simplicity to the game design and yet the bosses are mountains and leagues harder, which makes beating them skillfully with the monsters you like a thousand times more meaningful. Meanwhile, the moment Pokemon forces even the tiniest amount of optimization such as Whitney or Ultra Necrozma, players that claim to be proud of how much they love and understand the game burst into tears lol.

[@travv88]

At least Entei learns flamethrower. Raikou doesn't even learn thunderbolt!

[@mikeyg144]

It does learn Thunderbolt by move tutor in Crystal version but in the other 2 games your basically right.

[@TheTrueFool]

I think improved learnsets and greater TM accessibility has been one of the greatest unsung improvements of the franchise. So many early Pokemon are held back in casual playthroughs because they of their movepool.

[@SkyNinja759]

Gen 2 was back before Pokemon have it's framework set. Johto was suppose to be Kanto 1.5. The game was more like a predecessor to what would be a modern DLC. The new pokemon were tag ons that were more about being collectables than proper regional staples. GameFreak notices the popularity of the franchise and gen 3 was a proper model for a reimagining of the regional formula, and the next few generations continued to keep adding more new pokemon in to replace older ones; especially gen 5 with it's hard reboot of having no access to older pokemon until the post game.

[@lazerbeam134]

"Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled trainers should try to win with their favorites."- Karen, Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal

[@residentrain7055]

Objection! Truly strong trainers win.

[@josharrow1111]

@@residentrain7055objection! Strong Pokemon doesn’t MAKE a stronger trainer it’s how you use your pokemons strengths and weaknesses to your advantage that makes you a powerful trainer

[@residentrain7055]

@@josharrow1111 Ooh! True!

[@DrCoeloCephalo]

She says that after losing and beforehand says Dark Pokemon are strong. People that misuse that quote seem to ignore alot of context, huh?

[@KusanagiZX]

@@DrCoeloCephaloThat doesn’t make the point she’s making any less correct.

[@FrenzyFanboy]

Imagine if this generation only let you use Gen 2 Pokémon

[@Genoci]

I always try to play with new Pokémon each generation. The GSC games have been the exception every time.

[@MeatbagSlayer]

Deadass would be the worst gen at that point, ngl.

[@josephbulkin9222]

I wish. I hated Sinnoh because there were barely any new pokemon. Kalos and the new regions are even worse in this regard. That's why I like Kanto, Hoenn, and Unova. They made full Pokedexes of new pokemon that didnt force you to use the old stuff.

[@josephbulkin9222]

​@@MeatbagSlayerwhy? I loved that Black and White made a full dex(larger than Kanto's) of brand new mons.

[@alyrolm5045]

@@josephbulkin9222 You'd have a pretty small regional dex since GSC only adds 100 new Pokemon (99 after subtracting the mythical Celebi) and most of the new mons are pretty underwhelming stat-wise. Even if you count the Kanto mons that have new evolutions or baby forms in Johto, the total available mons list ends up smaller than RBY.

[@matthewrowlett1564]

About Phanpy/Donphan... it may not learn many stab moves, but... it learns both defense curl and rollout at low level, in the game that introduced that combo... And about Unown: WHADDYA MEAN THEY HAVEN'T GIVEN IT A SINGLE W! ONE IS LITERALLY A W!(jk, i got your meaning.)

[@anlev11]

Phanpy and Donphan also learn dig, which tm is in the national park

[@Genoci]

@anlev11 The Phanpy line cannot learn Dig.

[@Genoci]

@matthewrowlett1564 Eh there are so many mons that can run Curl-Rollout. I tried to use it in a playthrough and it was inconsistent during important matchups. When you hit all of them it's huge though.

[@T____W____7777]

Gen 2 focused more on exploration and world building than viability. In the original lore these weren’t Pokemon from another region, but were Pokemon that had just unexpectedly shown up over the last 3 years. And they weren’t animals that were apart of nature, they were and invasive species that needed to be tracked down and documented. As a kid, you would spend a lot of time trying to find the next Pokemon and wondering what was everything that could be found in every patch of grass. There wasn’t the internet to tell you where everything was, what was everything in the games or even how many and what Pokemon there were. You saw a weird yellow Pokemon in that cave once but weren’t able to capture it, so now you’re trying to find it again. Except it hasn’t been showing up, was it even real? Did any of your friends find it? Was it in the anime or any other media? This was the feeling that GSC brought at the time. And it’s something that can’t be duplicated today unfortunately.

[@afonsoabreu1962]

Wise words

[@Super_Top_Secret_Area]

If you ever make a Sinnoh video, something that might actually escape your rules is the fact that so many people detour to get the Riolu egg, hatch the Lv1 Riolu and add it to their teams even though it appears very late, serves little to no purpose at this point, is difficult to evolve, will hog up valuable experience and... Huge Power Medicham is easy to come by in the wild and spawns at Lv36. Then you have people complaining that Sinnoh games are hard.

[@NigelsPad]

Nice video! Crobat honestly usually ends up bein my team MVP, my play sessions do tend to be shorter though so doing the friendship stuff (like haircut brothers) is not an issue for me, and I usually only have Golbat for one level before it evolves into Crobat immediately on its next level up. Supersonic makes Zubat at least a lil useful, once it gets Confuse Ray at lv 19, I find it holds its own quite well.

[@PyryKorh]

Jumpluff does have the niche of being one of the fastest sleepers available making it great for catching the legendary beasts at relatively early level making it so they don't immediately run away. That was mostly what purpose I use it for most times though if one has access to trading gengar can also fill this role. However just Haunter or Jynx wasn't cutting it at the level I was trying it.

[@PyryKorh]

To be fair I also bred drill peck onto a skarmory and trained the E-speed dratini into a dragonite during that playthrough while also getting the level 40 larvitar from celadon game corner and training it into a Tyranitar for red because crystal has that. Skarmory is really good if you breed drill peck onto it I noticed.

[@mr.sniffly5297]

Can’t the beasts still run away while sleeping or is that just gen 4 (I only have hgss)?

[@PyryKorh]

@@mr.sniffly5297 They never did for me in crystal so probably just HGSS.

[@rexempire3365]

In Cookie Cutter playthroughs, Kadabra/Alakazam is better due to a larger move pool. However in playthroughs with a balanced team of 6 Pokémon, Espeon still is a good choice. Your other 5 Pokémon should have good enough type coverage that you don't really need the non-stab coverage that Kadabra/Alakazam offers. Your title should really be "Johto Pokemon that should NOT be used in a Crystal Playthrough", as your video assumes everyone is playing Crystal (without trading there is NOWAY Gold or Silver players will have ANY elemental stone evolved Pokémon before Kanto).

[@hv433]

The alternative option is to use a Thief TM on Kadabra, which is just okay. I think Espeon is probably the best Dark type user in Johto, which is kinda sad... Since Houndour exists, but is entirely in Kanto.

[@IAmMissingnoMaster]

I honestly tend to use Qwilfish as my go-to Water-type in Johto games. Yeah, it's not great with the special attacks, but it can get all three aquatic HMs, which is a real rarity in Gen 2, and when the Sludge Bomb TM _does_ come into play, it's pretty awesome. In the meantime it can make do with TMs like Headbutt and Rollout, and in Crystal it even comes with Spikes, which is pretty cool. Also, I do tend to prefer Sudowoodo over Graveler. Lack of Ground STAB might not be optimal, but Sudowoodo lacks those nasty 4x weaknesses, and actual access to Rock Slide is a beautiful thing. It even gets Low Kick for coverage- granted, it's the early version of Low Kick that has a fixed base power and imperfect accuracy, but even decent Fighting coverage was a rarity back then. Besides, Sudowoodo doesn't constantly taunt you with the knowledge that it can evolve further but you're unlikely to ever make it happen. And Stantler... would it benefit from the Dream Eater TM being available in Johto? Yes. But there is another TM you can get in Johto that Stantler can learn that pairs well with Hypnosis- Nightmare. I have seen this do incredible things. Especially if you're up against an opponent who uses Full Heals- if the AI uses a Full Heal to wake up a mon afflicted by Nightmare, it only cures the sleep status, not the Nightmare, so it just keeps taking Nightmare damage even when awake. In one playthrough, I swept half of Lance's team with Stantler, thanks largely to Hypnosis and Nightmare. The Dragonite half. And as for Unown, yeah, it's not the best by far, I'll admit that. But even still, you work out the Hidden Power type, make sure you get one that's to your liking, choose its battles wisely, it can contribute more than most might give it credit for. Also Chikorita is best Gen 2 starter. I appreciate that you highlight its support options, I feel like that aspect of it is super slept on.

[@Billie-zx5vf]

Espeon with Bite and Psybeam till it learns Psychic is good enough lol it's stronger than Kadabra, faster and has more defenses. Considering there's about 5 dark pokemon and they rarely show up, Espeon just sweeps through everything. Also the team rocket hideouts are full of poison types so a lot of easy xp fights to level up with.

[@mismagia]

Espeon is Good enough but kadabra is doing just as good if not better for a lot less effort which is the point

[@Billie-zx5vf]

@@mismagia All to constantly die to beefy defensive Mons unless it's over over levelled to one shot them, sure lol

[@mismagia]

@@Billie-zx5vf i think id understand where youre coming from if you were talking about 115/95 haunter but 120/105 kadabra is stronger and faster than all 3 fully evolved starters and youre getting that at goldenrod when you still only have a middle stage hell Kadabra hits harder than Raikou does

[@Billie-zx5vf]

@@mismagia Okay but why are you hyping Kadabra way more than it is lmao so late game it can handle multiple bulky mons? No it can’t lol you can rely on Espeon or any of the three starters to take a hit whilst hitting hard back..

[@alexwells8610]

While i know hidden power is also a physical move in gen 2, it can get a fire or fighting type coverage move if you're lucky. Making it just as viable imo. (This is a must if you play crystal with the physical/special split rom patch)

[@milliethesillie]

- mud slap on donphan is still very useful because 60bp with an accuracy drop, along with usual headbutt and rollout shenanigans. - ledian is surprisingly useful in a gsc playthrough because it gets every elemental punch working off it (somewhat) better special stat, actually really underrated in nuzlockes since you're most likely not getting a better punch user - "better off using a furret or raticate instead of dunsparce" i'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you never use speed up in your games because with speed up a 1% encounter rate just becomes a minor annoyance instead of a time sink. on entei you dont bring up that you can't get magmar before mt silver in crystal if you dont reset for a magby egg which is magnitudes more annoying than finding a 1% catch you make good points here but you can really make anything you get along the way work honestly since these games are made for children

[@1buszybudy13]

Its almost impressive how many were given an evolution later on

[@Genoci]

With how much power creep has been introduced in later generations, it's needed.

[@1buszybudy13]

@@Genoci ...what? In this video, your own video, you go on about how many of the new mons are bad

[@Genoci]

@@1buszybudy13 Aren't we talking about evolutions that were introduced beyond gen 2? This video has nothing to do with that

[@1buszybudy13]

@@Genoci But u still dont like them here

[@franksony1992]

34:51 25:22 Tyrogue has Dizzy Punch if hatched from odd egg in Crystal. 27:52 It's pretty tough to get a Firestone (especially 2) and only 1 Eevee... There are certain a lot of quirks and plain failures within development of these Pokemon (like certain movepools), but the challenge of catching a Pokemon with a low encounter rate or have to put some work in it to evolve shouldn't be forgotten. That makes that particular Pokemon desired. A lot of Pokemon are availabe to use in early and mid-game. It's obviously dumb to compare them to

[@AaronL0905]

8:26 I don't think friendship evolution is a bad thing Only in Togepi is kinda messy for the structure of the game but for example Golbat to Crobat does go fast bc most of the effort to level up your way to Golbat puts you well on the way for Crobat coming fast Friendship evolutions are messy when you get a pokemon that ONLY evolves with friendship with not much else going on, like Togepi tho they could never make me hate the little guy

[@unnamed7485]

I think it's really telling how hard most Dark types got shafted in this Gen that Girafarig is a better counter to Morty's Ghost types than actual Dark types (Normal means immune to Ghost and Psychic beats Poison) Also...yeah i have no idea what they were going for with Sneasel, it seems like a Pokémon they'd add in Gen 4 with the physical special split but unfortunately it just gets the Hitmonchan treatment until then which is sad because its design is peak. Just wait 2 gens buddy you'll get your time

[@Xanit]

Man, I thought I was just unlucky with my Misdreavus not appearing in-game until Kanto, and the ghost type gym leader not even using it against me, but it turns out GameFreak was just terrible at designing/balancing their game across the board. Pokemon was never well balanced... At least my boy Quagsire is always king.

[@garchompelago]

There are many players today who thinks Skarmory is a Gen 3 Pokemon and I honestly cant blame them. -Skarmory is a Silver exclusive Pokemon -It has a very low encounter rate. -It only spawn on an optional Route which most players skip So even if you own Silver, theres a good chance you'll never find it. Also, guides from the Internet werent even a thing back then. Good luck knowing it exist if you played back then.

[@SunsetBear]

I disagree with the assessment on steelix. Thief is in this generation and works. Makes getting a metal coat much faster than described. I grabbed an onix from victory road and evolved it and it helped tremendously with my e4 run with hardly any training

[@Genoci]

@SunsetBear Thief is obtained in the Rocket Hideout. Onix can still perform decently here, but I had a run where I tried farming a Metal Coat afterwards and it took way too long to my liking. I could've cleared one of the 3 available gyms by the time I got one. I did say Steelix is a solid Pokemon in the video, but it's hindered by a pre-evolution that doesn't perform well past the mid game and also because the grindfest for Metal Coats is a pain.

[@xxcunninxx4882]

Isn't furet learn thief at 20?

[@opposumness3107]

Sadly, no polemon learns Thief by level up, except Mightyena

[@RedDragonForce2]

Given the “original” list was 210 Pokémon and 60 were removed and re-added for Gen 2, of course some aren’t good. They’re extensions of Gen 1 Pokémon, aka Babies.

[@dawk7]

6:52 Don't be silly, Johto's regional bird is also Pidgey. You can't go and imply owls are birds.

[@diode_wow]

"Gen 2 Pokémon, in a Gen2 2 game? Nonsensical!" - GameFreak, c.1999

[@Living_End]

These videos are amazing! This is actually a fun concept!

[@TehSeksyManz]

WOA. Fancy seeing you here!

[@notfabio9858]

Genoci: “Pokemon games are quite easy so you can play with whatever Pokemon you like, these are just my recommendations” The comments: HOW DARE YOU TELL ME WHAT TO DO

[@aj06rocks20]

I was just watching the RBY video yesterday and was wondering when this one would come out

[@zukrad634]

Shot outs to Marril tho, in the running for worst in game water type of all time in GSC, and just kept getting better in each generation

[@ReventonSpeed]

Oh hell yes this is the kind of Pokemon content I’ve always been looking for, I really hope there’s more like this in the future. This is my first time seeing your channel and I like this style 🌪️

[@chackle5002]

I disagree with your crobat take. Offensively, he doesn't get much with his poison typing, but defensively, he has 3 tyoes he quad resists. Fighting, grass and bug. Normal flying is neutral to fighting and only a 2x resist to bug and grass.

[@maverick5169]

Espeon is the only mon I am willing to defend because it can double team + baton pass or use Toxic on many fast and strong mons before going down, and since there is still no true counter to psychic types, one can run both Espeon and Kadabra/Alakazam Otherwise I am baffled at how much Gen 2 hates its own dex, it's too weak and I don't buy the excuses some people use to justify it. It's not "meant" to be weak or a hidden difficulty option, it's just a poorly designed mess, where gen 1 had lots of min maxed pokemon, gen 2 played around the concept of bulkier, gimmicky options that simply did not work

[@Genoci]

I'm not ready for the people that will spam Karen's quote about strong and weak Pokémon.

[@josephbulkin9222]

​@@GenociI mean, it seems like this is the gen that kinda needs it the most. Half the new Johto mons feel like a warning to not use them, so who would bother unless they liked how they looked or something?

[@Invisibool]

@Genoci I mean we're talking about casual playthroughs of GSC. I feel like if that quote works anywhere it's here lol Also I always say it but I see waaaaaay more people complaining about people quoting Karen, than I do people actually quoting Karen. I think y'all are a bit dramatic about it

[@Genoci]

@@Invisibool It's worse on my RBY video, but that one has been online for about a year now.

[@Trottskee]

Phanpy and Donphan is still worthwhile even with these problems. Quite honestly, The tankiness is still good and like you stated Learning Headbutt is useful. As someone who used this line in Crystal. It proved to be very Good and a SAVIOR To many battles. In these early games, Tanks are actually huge.

[@maneruloquendero]

There're no bad Pokémon, only bad trainers

[@DrCoeloCephalo]

Play a better balanced monster collector sometime that rewards actual skill and creative teambuilding. Pokemon's overlap issues that trivialize so much of its roster are laughable.

[@oniondesu9633]

​@@DrCoeloCephaloit's easy to beat pokemon even with the worst pokemon in the dex. the idea you have to think about "viability" in order to play an rpg is laughable

[@DrCoeloCephalo]

​​@@oniondesu9633 Pokemon lets you win by mashing A like a dumb monkey which contradicts how it advertises how going on a Pokemon journey is only for the headstrong, hence I say to play better monster collectors that reward actual skill and creativity.

[@khalilnoelgevana3915]

I don't know man Ledian is pretty ass

[@drewgarcia117]

​@@DrCoeloCephalo I think fanmade versions of Pokémon like Pokémon Reborn are the best ways to play Pokémon and have an actual challenge that rewards skill and thought. Otherwise, the main games are easy, I frequently watch people do solo runs in games and do just fine. That's the only time you can have a real challenge using the normal games.

[@FffDddd-lp1vc]

Its a Playthrough and not something competetive in fact, if you use a Bug Pokemon, it gets the Badge boost from the second Gym. I dont know why People taking Pokemon Playthroughs so seriously. A competetive guide for this would be better. Even the time has run out, Showdown has still gen 2 Tournaments. A playthrough is just childsplay even Pikachu can solo all those AIs.

[@-1.3.3.7-]

Many gen 2 Pokemon suffer from moves being bad AND not being able to learn the right moves. Stats are often not even the problem. Here are examples: - *Crobat* should have been able to learn Sludge Bomb and Swords Dance. - *Donphan* needed Agility and Rock Slide, maybe Reversal too. Even with Agility alone Donphan already becomes amazing. - *Quagsire* needed Recover. - *Heracross* needed Cross Chop and Ancient Power/Rock Slide. In the early stages it needed Leech Life or Pin Missile. Leech Life should have like 70-80 BP instead of 20 BP. - *Sneasel* needed Swords Dance, Crunch, Ice Beam, Cross Chop and like 90 Special Attack instead of just 35 Special Attack. They did Sneasel so dirty. - *Gligar* has a unique typing with very uniqe resistances. It needed Rock Slide and Swords Dance. It also needed Wing Attack to be a level up move instead of an egg move. - *Ursaring* needed Body Slam, Double Edge, Rock Slide and Cross Chop. - *Xatu* needed 5-10 more base stats on Attack, Special Attack and Speed. Maybe let it learn Shadow Ball too. - *Espeon* should have been able to learn Crunch. The move Growth should be a level up move instead an event move. - *Umbreon* should also been able to learn Crunch. - *Scizor* suffers alot. Scizor can learn Metal Claw but Metal Claw has only 50 BP, Metal Claw should be 85 BP instead. Scizor also should have had Leech Life as a 70-80 BP move and Mach Punch boosted from 40 BP to 60 BP. All of a sudden you have a very nice Scizor without the needs of boosting its stats. - *Entei* suffers also alot, especially because Raikou and Suicune are so good. Entei needed Sacred Fire, Earthquake, Ancient Power, Rock Slide and Reversal. All of these moves fit Entei and would make it very good. No stat boosts needed. - *Kingdra* needed Dragon Breath being 85 BP instead of 60 BP and Octazooka being 80 BP instead of 65 BP. Than the Dragon Breath/Octazooka/Rest/Sleep Talk set would be great. - *Houndoom* needed higher stats. 50 Defense is way to low, should have been 65 Defense. Special Attack 110 > 115. Speed 95 > 105. And all of a sudden you have a good Houndoom. Than there are moves like Razor Leaf (55 BP) and Bubble Beam (65 BP) that should have been stronger and would make weak Pokemon indirectly stronger. Why are they not as good as Thunderbolt, Ice Beam and Flamethrower? All of these moves are 95 BP and have secondary effects. Razor Leaf has a higher crit chance and Bubble Beam a 10% chance to lower the speed. Give them 95 BP too. Many other moves are also too weak. There are also gen 1 Pokemon who needed good moves like Aerodactyl not having Rock Slide, Gyarados not having Earthquake and a good flying stab move, Dragonite not having Earthquake and many more.

[@WiiFan-1300]

I love how you use the sprites. Great stuff!

[@Genoci]

Thanks! I'm already thinking of different ways to implement them for other videos

[@AzarathMetreon]

Counterpoint: Espeon is my kitty cat and I’ll always pick it over the other eeveelutions

[@Genoci]

Top tier in Colosseum though 🙌🏻

[@Rokutomaru]

Got that video randomly on the feed and LOVED IT. Thank you so much for making it

[@yuumijungle548]

corsola is actually pretty good, you can catch a level 40 one before red and it can 1v1 reds charizard without issues since it resists all of his moves

[@CratthewF]

i’ve played through gsc a ton of times and i nearly always use a jumpluff. leech seed and sleep powder being obtained at an early level with a high speed stat means that you can often take on leaders with little to no grinding, regardless of poor type matchups. not to mention access to poison powder. not only that, but sleep powder is also obviously helpful for catching other pokémon.

[@Genoci]

Jumpluff is a Pokémon I would definitely use in a difficulty hack (depending on my team, of course).

[@Ikiez_r]

This may be a very controversial opinion but i think Heracross is also a mon that i would not recommend for an in game GSC playthrough While it can be obtained pretty early, its going to be stuck using normal type moves for almost all of the johto side of the game or hope that fury cutter actually works, or use tbe 20 bp rock smash It wont learn any usable fighting moves until 44 with reversal, and its signature move Megahorn is a level 54 move, so it only gets used in kanto You also need to wait until victory road to get Earthquake Good pokemon in terms of stats, terrible learnset and only becomes useful until the last 3rd of the game where it can actually learn stuff At least HGSS gave it a better learn set so it can actually be of used early

[@Genoci]

@@Ikiez_r I was on the fence about Heracross for a long time. It's actually strong enough to use Normal type moves effectively. Pinsir does the same thing as Heracross, but with access to Swords Dance at the E4 and beyond. I decided against putting Heracross in the video because Endure + Reversal (in Kanto) is a legit strategy imo.

[@gydalf9490]

The thumbnail design is really pretty

[@User-floating_trash_can]

Theirs movepools gamefreak create make most of them worse, some are stats

[@jonaw.2153]

While I'll gladly agree with most of these, I will not have this slander of my boy Crobat! He carried my Nuzlocke all the way the E4! Anyway, back in the day I would not allow Togepi to evolve because I was afraid Prof. Elm would be upset that it wasn't a Togepi anymore. Yes, I carried it on my team. Yes, it was just a waste of a slot.

[@Freechasencobain]

Brooooo I literally just found your channel and just finished this video for Gen1 and bam here it is for Gen 2 in 30 mins lol

[@Genoci]

Hopefully there's more like these for the future! :)

[@nathanlamont9920]

I used Jumpluff in my last Gold playthrough. Using the paraflinch on seeded pokemon. Sometimes it is fun using the weaker pokemon. Unless it's one of the hacked games, Legacy or similar, just about any pokemon could work if you know it's role. Mainly because the AI is so dumb and very rarely switch. Which makes Skarmory and Fortress useless. Using the good pokemon tend to make all pokemon games a breeze.

[@Garvant_]

Aw FUCK YEAH been waitin on this video man!

[@ThePeasantRock16]

YEEEEEEEES WE ARE BACK BABY I LOVE THIS SERIES EVEN IF THERE ARE 2 VIDEOS SO FAR

[@josephbulkin9222]

I might never have played GSC , but I did play Heart Gold. My majir team was Typhlosion, Politoed, Togekiss, Heracross, Sudowoodo, and Ampharos. It was pretty cool.

[@wish_cave]

love seeing vids that have well-thought-out arguments behind them. keep it up! I generally agree that skarm is not that good for an in-game playthrough but there was one instance recently where it really shined for me. I'm currently going through a casual challenge where I play through all the mainline pokemon games in order with some restrictions, like no X items, set mode, and no repeating pokemon within a generation. one of the key rules is a soft restriction on grinding wild pokemon - I can only take encounter EXP if I'm close to a level-up before a major fight or on the way somewhere for story/sidequest purposes, and cannot otherwise go out of my way to grind. most of the EXP should come from trainers, making it a semi limited resource. walking into GSC I knew there was not enough EXP in the game so I would have to fight Red at a level deficit every single time, and would have to find 3 different solutions for the fight. gold I just threw curselax at him, silver I used meganium to dual screen and position alakazam carefully to pick off each of his pokemon, but in crystal, my main core (feraligatr + gengar) would not have done very much at a significant level deficit. enter skarmory, which has the raw stats even at a deficit to be able to take hits and live. a set of fly, steel wing, toxic, and protect with leftovers allowed me to eternally wall 4/6 of his pokemon and chip them down where my team would've otherwise failed. was a pain to level up, yes, but I don't think anything else would've gotten the job done as well as it did. ever since then I feel obligated to respect skarmory for its postgame prowess lol.

[@magnum_pig_2004]

Ah, yes. Generation II. The generation that (almost) everyone hates in the modern day. Everything seems to be wrong with them - the level curve, the new Pokemon, the story, the boss fights... It's common knowledge that the Pokemon franchise took a quality downgrade after Gen 5, but let's not pretend the originals were perfect, either.

[@Genoci]

Every gen has its own problems. Pre 3D graphics, I personally find Gen 2 to be the worst one out of the bunch because of the reasons you mentioned and more. It's a nice region that's plagued by some weird game design (new Pokemon are rare, level curve, etc.)

[@davigabriel783]

You either love gen 2 because it was your first game or you hated because of the terrible desing decisions in the game

[@Genoci]

@@davigabriel783 I played gen 2 as a kid, but Red and Yellow were my first Pokémon games. I was "too young" to really form a proper opinion of the region, but when HG/SS released, I thought they were THE best Pokémon games. That slowly went away over the years as I started to realise Johto's many shortcomings when replaying its games.

[@Finneagan]

Gen II is universally beloved by nearly everyone who wasn't raised on 3D pokemon

[@Finneagan]

The level curve is the only legitimate issue. Johto pokemon were never meant to be direct upgrades to existing pokemon. There are always weak pokemon in every gen that add to the flavor of the region.

[@kungfuzing1018]

Now, to be fair, Jumpluff has been a surprisingly reliable Pokemon in my most recent playthrough of Crystal, even without Grass or flying STAB due to its many strategic options. I do also like how the Pokémon destined to be the king of OU for all of its existence until recently, Tyranitar, was locked behind the endgame to make it special. Beyond that, though, I agree with most of this video.

[@chippedgoat]

For vaporeon, can't you not get a water stone until kanto? with Bills uncle? in at least gold an silver i think this is the case

[@Rydeman2]

There is an NPC Fisherman just on the East Side of Mt. Mortar that you can get his phone number. Eventually he will give you a waterstone after rematching him a few times.

[@Feroror]

@@Rydeman2 that is only in crystal though, OG GS has the elemental stones (besides sun stone) as all in kanto

[@Rydeman2]

@@Feroror Oh. I was unaware of that. Sorry about the confusion.

[@mannythelazyguy6529]

i hate how they refuse to actually buff weak pokemon like sunflora, at least stantler got an evolution, doesnt do shit but its something, but by far i would rather see a new evo or form for jumpluff than an already good pokemon

[@Genoci]

It really looked like S/V were going to give Sunflora something with its role in the first gym.

[@thetreyceratops]

Says a lot about Gen 2’s Pokémon when out of the top 16 in GSC OU, the only Gen 2 Pokémon are Raikou (when Zapdos is slightly higher), Tyranitar, and 3 Steel type tanks (Skarmory, Forretress and Steelix). And out of those five, the only ones you have any chance of using in an in game playthrough are Raikou (feels nearly impossible to track down for the first time) and Skarmory (which you probably want to breed because Drill Peck is an egg move)

[@lvl5Vaporeon]

I feel like every team in gen 2 ends up being: Starter Alakazam Ampharos (Gengar in crystal) Golem Shiny Gyarados/Random legendary Random HM slave Sure you can deviate from this but man, it is like the game actively HATES you for doing that. It doesnt help that in crystal Mareep is just....not there...for some baffling reason. I wanted to give everyone a fair shake. It is absurd though that to get a Gligar with EARTHQUAKE, you need to beat r2 of stadium 2. That by itself is NUTS!

[@Genoci]

Starter, Ampharos, Golem/Graveler, Gyarados, Legendary and HM slave was my team in one of my first HG/SS runs. The game doesn't punish you from using different Pokémon, though. You can make pretty good teams without these three and legendaries.

[@thuikippl5034]

worse part is HG/SS does not do enough to fix these shortcomings imo - great vid man enjoyed it and agree with pretty much all ur points

[@Genoci]

While the remakes do some good things, they indeed could've done more. I will never understand why they only made some cross gen evolutions available, but not all of them.

[@Alienldr]

As a note, the sun stone is actually much easier to get than the leaf stone if you are using a single game. In gold and silver, you only get access to a single leaf stone in the post game. Your options in gold and silver are bellossom or regular gloom. In crystal, picnicker Gina south of goldenrod can call you and give you one, but it seems very rare to get more than one this way. Making the sun stone still arguably easier based on how experienced you are at the bug catching contest. (You're losing the contest because lowering their HP lowers your score. Catch at as high of HP as you can.) If you have a gen 1 game, the leaf stone is by far the easiest since you can trade to it after reaching Ecruteak and Celadon in each game. Getting a leaf stone at the store.

[@lazyhippie6139]

I agree that Kadabra is a better pick than Espeon because of its versatility and immediate usefulness. But I don't think Espeon is a bad pick for a Psychic type at all. Friendship evolution is a pain in gen 2, but I've always been able to evolve Eevee before level 36, when you really want Espeon anyway, and when Umbreon gets Faint Attack. So, for Espeon, the friendship evolution is almost a non issue anyway. Its bulk is also better than Kadabra's, which can be clutch sometimes. Kadabra is still better in Johto, but Espeon is by no means bad. I also don't think Eevee is that bad in midgame. It does fall off a bit in the 30s, but Normal STAB is really good, and it can Flinch things to death for a good portion of the game. I think Umbreon is actually great in a playthrough. It sucks that Confuse Ray is at level 30, because it is challenging to get the friendship before then. Challenging, but not impossible! If you can manage to get Eevee to evolve at level 30, you get Umbreon with Bite and Confuse Ray, which is a lot of fun. Umbreon is so bulky that I've never seen it be OHKO'd in GSC. Bug and Fighting are both pretty lackluster still. Plus, a Psychic immunity is nice. I don't think Toxic is super useful in the Elite Four anyway, you basically just want to sweep them. I like having Umbreon and Kadabra on a Johto team. That combo is basically unstoppable and synergizes well with each starter. You make good points about all the others. Phanpy makes me so sad. Donphan is cool and has solid stats, but man, what were they doing with its movepool. It's such an easy fix, just give it Magnitude as a mid-game move. Magnitude may be less reliable than EQ, but it has great PP and I've always found it to be a good midgame move. It sucks that Graveler outclasses all the other Rock and Ground types, because the game should be encouraging the use of the new mons. I've tried to get that early Phanpy in Crystal. It is a PAIN to catch, can take over an hour (the 50% flee chance was too much), with honestly not great payoff. It sucks because the line is so well-designed with the right stats, but they just didn't give it the right tools and made it stupid rare (or stupid late) for no reason. This is definitely a problem in Johto games (seriously, why did they make Houndour a post e4 mon?), but I still love these games.

[@garg4531]

Not even halfway through this video I gotta say I absolutely love it I was expecting it to just be a short list of the worst mons but you really went above and beyond with your explanation! Can’t wait to see what other videos you have Also yeah, so many people swear by Crobat but it’s like, do they not know the amount of effort you have to go through to get this thing? And in a lot of gens it’s not even worth it, especially when you have so many alternatives that are so much better and easier

[@christopherballero866]

Shame that so many of the new Johto Pokemon in Gen 2 had: bad moves, bad stats, difficult to find/evolve, and/or were too late. The addition of Kanto really hurt the level curve & how much space could be allotted to Johto leading to its lack of development. I think when Gen 2 was released the only good viable Johto Pokemon that one could use without trades were: Feraligatir, Typhlosion, Ampharos, & Quagsire

[@tedgrove7775]

With Jumpluff, it's really satisfying to set up Leech Seed and PoisonPowder, then using a King's + Rock Headbutt flinch combo. It outspeeds damn near everything, too. I remember beating up Lance's Gyrados with one 😅😅 EDIT While we're on the topic, I have a quick story. One time, I took a Beedrill to the Elite Four. It was female, and it knew Attract. I took down Lance's Dragonite with it because many members of my team perished. The Beedrill tanked a Thunder. Then Attract + Sludge Bomb combo was able to ice it. 😎

[@DengekiVR]

Gen 2 sucked and I stand by it. Lore and music was good but everything else was meh.

[@minidialga64]

this videos are great and fun, they scratch the nerdy side of pokemon so well while not getting completely ridiculous plus i always wonder what people think the best options in each generation are since i always try to play with different teams and i myself have learned a lot about how the encounters were designed, i hold strong opinions with black and white but other games im not too experienced particularly older games so i look forward to a ruby and sapphire video

[@optimisticpessimist9724]

"Strong Pokemon, Weak Pokemon, That is only the selfish perception of people, Truely skilled trainers should try to win with their favourites"

[@parissyndromeuncut9414]

It's a little sad that GF wanted to make more support and utility Pokemon but everyone just wanted to sweep everything. Most of the mons in this vid are good just not "spam your stab move and win game" good.

[@Genoci]

The games are just too easy for actual strategy. I will happily put utility and support mons on my team in rom hacks that up the difficulty, but some (or most) of the mainline games make a well-built hyper offense team feel more rewarding to play imo.