Joker: Folie à Deux Ending Explained with Director Todd Phillips

After a five-year wait, Joker: Folie à Deux, the hotly anticipated follow-up to Joker, is finally out in theaters. While the original movie embraced ambiguity, this sequel is less opaque in depicting what is real and what is a figment of Arthur Fleck’s imagination. Nevertheless, there are still some things in the film that may leave viewers scratching their heads.
Like for starters, is Arthur Fleck even THE Joker?
So let’s break down the events and ending of Joker: Folie à Deux and gain some insights from director Todd Phillips along the way.
#Joker2 #Movies #IGN

[@FDR-ww6xz]

So basically Arthur’s Joker is not really Joker. He’s just someone’s inspiration.

[@ardhisjz1114]

yes, the first joker that inspires The Joker.

[@timstarockz]

yes and we all knew this from the first Joker movie but in this movie we get to see how far the "fans" are willing to go

[@carahiggs7157]

@@ardhisjz1114 that is the lamest thing I've heard, you got had and suckered into this scam yes you got had

[@jpbproductions3872]

Yeah

[@dereksavauge6613]

Why are people thinking this? Phoenix is this universes joker. The kid is just some kid, he’s not the joker.

[@Superheroes_United]

What’s he actually saying is that the *first Joker film didn’t need a sequel*

[@clipbang304]

@@Superheroes_United no that’s not what he is saying

[@RH1812]

No film needs a sequel

[@andrewcrow5979]

@@clipbang304 heard of sarcasm

[@Alex_Logan22]

Most movies don’t

[@pastense]

@@clipbang304 if you know Todd, he did the exact same thing with Hangover 3. This entire movie was intended to NOT give the people what they wanted. It’s an ENTIRE “fvck you” to the production company and the many sheep that keep wanting more. It’s a brilliant, very expensive waste. But I’m here for it lol

[@phaethonprime6427]

Movie should have been called "Arthur" as it sure as Hell isn't about the Joker.

[@renarc.gallery]

idk to me it seems more like "joker" is a movement, arthur "inspired" people with his alter ego and they started wearing clown masks in public rioting and stuff.

[@alasdairboswell4654]

@@phaethonprime6427 it never was…it’s always been about Arthur. The first film was almost called “Arthur”.

[@swallowedinthesea11]

Arthur the Aardvark!

[@birdflox1337]

@@phaethonprime6427 that's kind of the point, isn't it? Everybody wants him to be Joker, but he just isn't. And leaning into the persona does nothing but harm more people.

[@k-wizzy9010]

@@birdflox1337 lmao so the entire movie is Todd Phillips being ashamed of the first joker

[@omeezy718]

it seemed that the guy who stabbed Arthur at the end is the one who is actually going to take on and embrace the Joker persona. The hysterical laughing and the slicing of his mouth like the Heath Ledger character.

[@ankd956]

@@omeezy718 Suposedly in the script, the character name is Melvin and he's the brother of the Joker

[@CommanderLost]

It doesn't matter it's not like there's going to be a joker three

[@lionofthebluevale7170]

He isn't going to be taking on anything because this movie bombed

[@tigerpaws111]

unlikely it's him because the age of bruce and the character cutting his face at the end still don't quite match up. So likely it's actually the inmate at the end who inspires the Joker we see in the dark night seriesl.

[@MurderousJohnny]

The dumb part is he denied being the joker, when we the audience know that he is in fact crazy. Like he literally just gave up on himself. Like what was the point of it all.

[@zachstewart2946]

@@MurderousJohnny he had already given up at the beginning of the movie. Literally begging to die the first half of the movie. He was going to kill himself at the end of the first movie

[@birdflox1337]

We as the audience literally know that he isn't crazy. He was a miserable man who got his hands on a gun and was pushed over the edge. His laugh is a sign of distress, it couldn't be more obvious that he hates what he's doing. The Joker that we know simply hurts others for fun.

[@tcfilms8062]

@@birdflox1337 Arthur was indeed "crazy." He was someone who suffered from mental psychosis and delusions. He needed help and did not receive it. The other part of what you say is also true, but the two things are not exclusive.

[@sirreginaldthe8th182]

@@MurderousJohnny would have been interesting if they played on the idea of joker as a sona. While in arkham Arthur is the main sona but as he interacts with Harley begins to have conversations with joker

[@Ricksanchaze]

Arthur is crazy but not Crazy enough to be joker We seen many time real joker is mad psychopath So in the end he got what he deserved “ death” and the guy who kill him became real joker

[@osirisxvamp]

The guy who killed Arthur was the second in the shared delusion. He had been shown watching him a couple times throughout the movie. When Arthur stopped believing in the shared delusion, the recessive one killed the dominant one. Never meet your hero’s I guess:)

[@sixfeetunder0105]

like arthur killed his idol Murray

[@PictureProductStudio]

It's amazing how fewer people get this and don't fall for the red herring.

[@darkness2160]

@@sixfeetunder0105🤯🤯🤯

[@elonelzernandee1]

Great insight.

[@REAL_Infamous]

A Joker sequel that not only resents the success of the first movie, but actively hates the audience who liked the first movie. What a colossal miscalculation this was

[@RH1812]

No

[@gerryfegan3608]

Agreed

[@gerryfegan3608]

​@@RH1812go watch the movie doofus

[@gerryfegan3608]

​@@RH1812shit musical

[@Young_Dab]

It was predictable honestly. The first movie is overrated it did great at the box office cause of quarantine so a lot of ppl bought it digitally

[@steelwayne]

Many fans wondered why there was a big age gap between Bruce Wayne and Arthur Fleck in the first movie. It makes sense now why they chose this ending.

[@lakilakisorong8204]

@@steelwayne explain then about harvey dent? he was supposedly in the same age as bruce, he dated bruce’s gf…

[@Arissantari]

@@lakilakisorong8204Exactly

[@ricanman85]

@@lakilakisorong8204to be fair the age gap between Harvey dent in this movie and Bruce who is probably like at least 12 in the sequel, is probably 15 years only, it’s feasible a young Bruce could have a friend 15 years older, also it didn’t matter really because Batman was never going to exist in this world, therefore Arthur didn’t have to be THE Joker

[@maxxwimazal]

Joker should have taken over arthur at minute 40

[@LightningNation]

Did people really think we'd have Arthur's Joker vs Batman in this universe? 😅

[@a.s.raiyan2003-4]

They made the Joker sequel a Joke. Always rely on DC to fumble and ruin things. No one asked for this movie. And then you soured the taste for the first one too.

[@7wikDaBusta]

@@a.s.raiyan2003-4 I'm scared for Batman part 2

[@maxpowers4436]

No not really. What this proves is the "rumours" about the first movie. That it was never a Joker movie, it was created as some dude with mental health problems movie and WB caught hold of the script and slapped on the Joker title. These two feels at the core having nothing to do with the Joker character.

[@DouglasSilva-pu3jq]

Joker is an idea, Arthur was one of the inspirations for the three jokers

[@Superheroes_United]

You can always declare the sequel never existed

[@IAmTheJayster]

​@@DouglasSilva-pu3jqthat theory doesn't work after this film, Harleys presence makes that impossible

[@Dave.A.R]

Semantics, uh? So it was the public's fault to interpret the first movie as a "The origin story of The Joker" when it was, in reality, more of a "An origin story of some random dude who happens to call himself Joker as well".

[@TheHelderVinicius]

its the origin of the idea of the joker, but not the joker crime lord and batmans nemesis

[@siddriftwood9497]

It's titled Joker not The Joker, for me it was clear in the first movie. After all The Joker is a very intelligent and a master manipulator, Arthur is nowhere close to that

[@TheHelderVinicius]

@@siddriftwood9497I only understood now, but it makes much more sense

[@jchandlersabeast]

@@Dave.A.R it was a suicide squad. And now we have tTHE suicide squad. Lmao they should have just left this ambiguous. Like its better to choose your own ending in a way

[@phant0mpanda]

It's the origing of Harley Quinn not THE Harley Quinn

[@wmckinney4530]

Todd Phillips accidently made a good movie with The Joker. He said in interviews he hated how the audience took his message in the first film. So, he made a movie people liked by accident.

[@TheRealChrissCarver]

People salty because they all found themselves in joker, only to realize maybe they are just regular people...like arthur. And not the real.joker, who is a psychopath. Which these "fans" are not, nore anywhere close lol

[@MelissaLozano-jx2um]

@@TheRealChrissCarver that makes sense

[@zero-tension3180]

that hilarious

[@jelsonmorota1221]

so we have "The Clown, The Comedian and The Criminal" in the comics. in films we now have "The Comedian, The Psychopath and The Anarchist"

[@deseanmathieu3964]

@@jelsonmorota1221 this movie should of been a 3 jokers story or built up to one similar to how madara had nagato and obito. Imagine if Batman 2 or three was a three jokers story oh my god even if this is terrible there are other options

[@PHANTASMGODD]

I’m actually happy with this bc this means we still have a chance to get Willem Dafoe as Joker 😊

[@Zzzm517]

@@jelsonmorota1221 three jokers comic isn't canon to the main DC comic continuity and the idea of the "three jokers " has been retconed to just being three different personalities inside joker's head instead of three different people

[@almir506]

Wrong, in films we now have, "The Comedian, "The Psychopath" and "The Premature Ejaculator"

[@LightningNation]

You could argue that we had those 3 in this film. Arthur the comedian, his killer who refers to himself as the psychopath and the one who picks him up in the car and enjoys the chaos is the anarchist

[@justtoocringey.png.6324]

Im just upset how 90% of the movie takes place in prison and in court. like the trailers lead me to believe the he mightve escaped prison/court and did all sorts of things with Harley out in the streets with his followers when hes actually causing some chaos. But those were just the musical parts...in his head

[@epicghost1550]

I'm still confused. Like who EVEN was the guy who stabbed Arthur???

[@DouglasSilva-pu3jq]

@@epicghost1550 the next one to assume the joker persona, in the comics he got many aliases and in newer versions is stated that Joker persona has been assumed by different persons with different personalities.

[@kadosho02]

From Batman's mythos, a character named Joe Chill* (eventually would also cross paths with Bruce's parents that fateful night) But there is more than one Joker. It is just difficult to translate if this one goes anywhere. As it is an Elseworlds tale

[@afnan13122010]

It was Heath Ledger !!!

[@babybulllets]

@@kadosho02Joe Chill*

[@kadosho02]

@@babybulllets no worries fixing my comment, autocorrect is battling me today

[@green49285]

Hahaha nothing says a movie is good or even acceptable more then the director coming right out to explain the ending LOL

[@lepersonnage371]

endings in movies don't have to be transparent and have no secret or mystery to them

[@seaberry11]

Directors explain the endings of lots of movies. Especially today where people don’t want to think, or engage with art.

[@everettenjeze6276]

Todd really gave into the Warner bros bag💰 and gave us this. Tragic

[@conormcdermott-mt1nc]

@@everettenjeze6276 he gave into the bag with the first one too lol, it wasn't even meant to be called or really about the Joker

[@coolkillerr]

the joke is, movie is called Joker instead of Arthur

[@ardhisjz1114]

the first movie was initially planned to be called "Arthur"

[@lillybilly9954]

It’s a super villain origin story. It’s focused on Arthur because this is how Arthur dies. Joker is going to be the one who rises with no “good” side.

[@JoeFanik]

In a way it’s kinda nice that Arthur didn’t become The Joker. Instead of giving in to his demons and the obsessions of the people into becoming the psychotic Prince of Crime they imagine him to be, he chooses his humanity and to spend his final few days as Arthur Fleck; But for the first time, he’s finally at peace with himself. Of course this would’ve worked a lot better if Joker was treated as just a phase in the first movie instead of it being him becoming his “true self”.

[@Nugundamsisntforshow]

@@JoeFanik "finally finds peace" you mean spending the rest of his days miserable like at the beginning of the movie

[@RicardoSantos-oz3uj]

Is also possible that his "death" was a symbolic way to say that Arthur was no more and thus the only thing that remains is Joker. Much as Batman is the persona and Bruce is the mask. Except that Joker persona killed Arthur persona.

[@hoordeyah]

@@Nugundamsisntforshow abandonment of ego, and the worth others see into you is a very valid way of earning your peace tbh

[@BennyValdesMusic]

This Joker got killed by the REAL joker. Watch then end. He carves the joker smile on his face with the same knife he killed Arthur with. In the dark knight joker always lied about where he got those scares. Maybe the movies tie in?

[@AkiTerry]

That would be awful though. Why would Nolans Joker lie about how his dad cut his face when he was a child? He also never admitted in that movie that it was a lie. Nolans Joker was always "you get what you see", a crazy mastermind with a vision but always honest straight forward.

[@thelonelysponge5029]

@@AkiTerryrewatch the movie bro

[@folx2733]

@@AkiTerry in the Dark Knight he mentions at least 2 stories of how he got the scars.... One to the mob guy and another story to Maggie Gyllenhaal's character. The entire point of the Heath Ledger Joker was that nobody other than him knows the exact story bro

[@AkiTerry]

@@folx2733 okay, bro. It's been a few years & that sad story stuck into my brain somehow 😂 I need to re-watch soon. Thanks for letting me know & correcting me 🤗

[@thedefiant12024]

@@BennyValdesMusic It can’t tie in. The way Bruce’s parents are murdered is different and there is already a Harvey Dent in the Joker universe and by the end his face is already half burnt.

[@HelloFrisco]

The disrespect to Heath Ledger iconic Joker role is crazy

[@ScreenXplained]

Hate to break it to everyone here but the person who killed Arthur was Arthur himself. It was another one of his delusions where his entire personality was confused between being the joker or Arthur, when The Joker finally took over him, he killed the Arthur within. The Arthur who had a mother and a bad past had died all that remained was the psychotic Joker.

[@lillybilly9954]

Exactly

[@PunishedBrak]

Except that dude has a physical cell and you see him in the background throughout the whole movie, idolizing Arthur, until the very end when Arthur drops the facade and he was face to face with another who never stopped believing in the facade and wants it to be real. Bruce Wayne is only a man, but Batman is an Idea; he's larger than life and can do what others can't. The power is in the idea. Arthur Fleck is only a man, but The Joker is an Idea; he's larger than life, and can do what others can't. The power is in the idea.

[@ScreenXplained]

@@PunishedBrak tbh I’ven’t even seen the movie, it was just a speculation from all the comments. But if it indeed turns out the way you say, then the idea of a Joker movie leading to build up of a legendary character is utterly stupid. Because people follow originality, and this whole thing says that the idea of joker wasn’t original in itself but a second hand thought is simply destroying a character.

[@ivogoedhart1930]

I’m expecting this to get a cult following when years go by, like On Her Majesty’s Secret Service that divided fans upon release and now is considered one of the best Bond films. When the years go by people will see it’s underrated

[@KhalifaVlogs]

@@ivogoedhart1930 facts!

[@Implosion-Gaming]

Second this

[@maryolguin4372]

Third this.

[@supremel3vel469]

yeah great take!

[@pixelcount350]

Like with most movies and video games.

[@rykavproductions666]

My takeaway and theory is that Harley's baby would be the one to become the true Joker and the one to fight Bruce Wayne in the future since many had complaints about the huge age difference Arthur and Bruce in the first movie.

[@siddriftwood9497]

@@rykavproductions666 It's heavily implied the one whose murdered Arthur would become The Joker. He does it just as Arthur fantasies about having a successor

[@diegoswatch]

@@siddriftwood9497 but he offed himself a second later?

[@krushadevadiga6678]

@@diegoswatch no he was carving the smile on his mouth. He didn’t off himself

[@roachofdoom1234]

@@siddriftwood9497uhhh no it’s not? He’s just the next guy to develop the persona

[@siddriftwood9497]

@@roachofdoom1234 both ways are possible

[@curd9923]

I didnt even bother watching this one in theaters. I did not like the 1st joker movie as I thought it was too depressing. No one will ever beat the Heath Ledger Joker.

[@ashj0]

The trial was literally almost a play for play of the Ted Bundy trial. The weird girl he doesn’t even know is obsessed with him, giving interviews, “gets pregnant”. Then, him firing his more than competent lawyer, making a mockery of the court, the “first time a trial is televised”.

[@Acemont]

There the first movie is like a steak,, that's getting ready for BBQ. Well seasoned, charcoils are ready.... just for Folie à Deux to dip it into a bucket a cake glaze, throw it into the steamer, chop it down to small pieces and go: "Bon appetit!". Or in how the kids say now: you cooked. And not in a good way. Complete, identity-less, unneeded mess.

[@-441-]

COOKED!!

[@Username-ei4ff]

It’s ambiguity that made the first movie successful about Joker. The audience decided their ending and put you in Joker’s madness on what was true or not. Then the second one took that magic away and explained you wasted your time with that magic. The Joker character was then alluded to became an unoriginal product of the original Joker, creating an anti-climatic origin story. Secondly, Arthur’s new persona that was solidified in Joker was also deteriorated. Causing the original build-up as pointless.

[@gauthierkasongo180]

That was the point the audience is basically Harley who rejected Arthur for being him and only wanted the joker

[@kowsarahammad4807]

@@Username-ei4ff maybe Arthur wasn't actually killed, maybe the killing was in his head, maybe his "Joker" persona cerebrally killed his "Arthur" persona altogether.

[@Alex_Logan22]

Of course it would be pointless, he’s mentally impaired and practically disabled, he could never become a criminal mastermind and people only have themselves to blame for not seeing that.

[@commanderjor4043]

​@@gauthierkasongo180the whole point of the first film is that Arthur is The Joker he embraces the new identity that gives him everything he's wanted hes finally himself he literally stats this multiple times in the first film

[@gauthierkasongo180]

@@commanderjor4043 well that’s the point of the second movie. He never wanted to become the joker. As the trial goes on he hurts puddles and his lawyer the only two people who genially cared for him. The night before the sentencing an inmate that loved his joker persona his killed for being a blind supporter. He rejects the joker and just wants to be Arthur he doesn’t like chaos or what it means to the innocent he was just a broken man that wanted to be loved

[@iEricof]

Getting my popcorn ready to scroll down the comment section. 🍿

[@gwest7912]

Watch the ending closely. Arthur fleck is killed off. The psycho takes over

[@KidTokyo_]

Masterpiece film. Everyone is trending in on the hate

[@JohnnyTrece]

Agree.

[@Nugundamsisntforshow]

Good wouldn't call it a masterpiece

[@hoordeyah]

honestly one of the better depictions of ego, the true nature of self, and celebrity worship I've seen in modern media. people have tunnel vision though and expect everything to have predictable happy endings. they literally malfunction when given a dose of nihilism.

[@JohnnyTrece]

@hoordeyah Wow, that's a really great take on this film and the general audience. 🙂

[@couchpotato4515]

Lost all interest with the route the sequel has decided to do. It's not Joker anymore.

[@Roger-Bacon]

It wasn't ever joker let's be honest.

[@quokons]

It just wasn’t the Joker you wanted it to be. Was Arthur’s Joker really going to fight Batman? No lol

[@ffgcffg9647]

@@quokons fr Bruce was a kid in the first movie no way they wanted Arthur to be his joker

[@Oldschoolgamer13]

@@quokons Still sucked and was a movie that did not need to be made.

[@papidonpablo268]

Joker is a persona he is a version of joker not the real one he the one that brought the real joker out

[@westnile21]

I’ll never understand how these people capture lightning in a bottle (Joker 2019) and they somehow end up ruining something that wasn’t broke and didn’t need any fixing (or a sequel)

[@wondahquinn6825]

Reminds me of Game of Thrones or Dexter’s ending. Some directors just can’t end things right.

[@ThatGuy-vf1wj]

Joker 2 > Joker

[@doctorbob1223]

@@ThatGuy-vf1wj you can do better than that come on

[@ThatGuy-vf1wj]

it's an opinion on a movie. Not a thesis on Quantum physics, relax dude.

[@Bloodshotty]

The lesson here is never give Todd Phillips money, especially for sequels.

[@titan_fx]

Yeah, Joker should have been a standalone movie.

[@ericcartman2294]

"Joker" is a psychopathic character. In the movie Arthur is suffering from a disease which has nothing to do with mentality, he could just laugh without stopping and controlling it (forgot what it's called). And only thing he wanted is to be recognized by people, and to be loved, because he has never been loved nor by his mother in his childhood and never taken seriously by people around him. And at the end of first movie all those emotions burst out as a vengeful personality and called itself as "Joker", who would do the same as what everyone used to do to Arthur. Not giving a sh&t about others (especially bullies and careless ones). And as a result, all the people who felt the same they got inspired and took "Joker" as an idol. So, "Joker" himself is a psychopathic character, but Arthur wasn't. He was just a bit sick, not mentally though. But, at the end of the movie we got a real psychopath who probably suffered some kind of abuse in the past, but eventually was inspired by "Joker" personality of Arthur. After killing him, he cuts his mouth (like Hith Ledger's version). But anyways, probably we will have him as real Joker psychopath and villain in future movies.

[@ladzerty]

Bro you have actually no idea og what you are talking about😂. The first movie actually told us bout the traumatic past of Arthur and his sick relationship with his mother. Which in psychiatry and psychopath is often a common issue!

[@crgfx4887]

@@ericcartman2294 that’s right

[@jacky9961]

@ladzerty he's actually spot on and YOU unfortunately don't know what you're talking about 😅

[@MainHinduHun]

But did you see the deleted scene of the Batman(2022) where he meets joker he was same as this joker

[@PunishedBrak]

​@@MainHinduHun That's the only way they would be able to tie it in to The Batman, which, while a tad corny, sounds like something WB would do.

[@Luka__1]

Todd Phillips really killed his own career to "own the chuds"

[@samuelspace101]

Cristopher Nolan literally said not to do a face carving scene, BECAUSE THIS JOKER IS NOT HIS JOKER. This movie ruined that. Not every single good movie needs to be part of a massive franchise.

[@roemello639]

The people trying to defend this film in the comments are quite laughable .. this is not a good movie .

[@crater044]

That's a matter of opinion, not a fact.

[@macfly6237]

@@crater044the fact of the matter is that there won’t ever be another DC movie with a budget of 200 million and the DC franchise might be in the toilet because of Todd Phillips disaster.

[@doctorbob1223]

​@@crater044the user score of both critics and audiences for the movie is pretty cut and dry 😅😅

[@hoordeyah]

hot take: it actually is good. nihilism is a valid way to tell a story. the problem is, people have 30 IQ and want predictable, happy endings. I'm glad this movie ended the way it did.

[@bbkangs]

@@hoordeyah hot take… liking something most people dislike, doesn’t automatically make you smarter 🤡

[@Psyclonus7]

Pretty cut and dry ending that didn't need "explaining".

[@Travisaurus]

@@Psyclonus7 it did because there are very few people I’ve seen that actually get it. I’ve seen it explained as “the real joker killed Arthur so Arthur isn’t even the joker” or “it makes a connection to Heath ledger’s joker” which are both wrong. The joker is an ideology, as well as a character. These movies were about the origin of the joker as an ideology, Arthur was still the joker, there’s simply now a new one and he’s not heath ledger, that would be dumb.

[@Alex_Logan22]

@@Travisaurus While there is an ideology, there’s also Batman’s nemesis of which the title is much more known for, and the guy that killed Arther reflects him too closely to argue that the ending isn’t the real Joker killing Arther. Joker can be both an ideology and a character, culturally he’s much more known for being Batman’s intellectual rival. It’s not a disappointment that Arther wasn’t the real Joker because his mental impairment was practically disabling so it never made any sense for him to be Batman’s intellectual equal. The guy that killed Arther though showed all the qualities of Batman’s Joker in just seconds. Thematically you can say it’s about the ideology, plot wise it’s about the real Joker.

[@zombiezone2010]

Tired of people who said Joker 2 was a bad movie because they didn't get it. The movie is well made and a lot of thoughts went into the production.

[@shefalichow7917]

​@@zombiezone2010 It's one of the worst sequels I've ever seen.

[@PunishedBrak]

​@@zombiezone2010It's a decent movie, a horrible sequel, and an unnecessary extension of what we already knew and were shown from the first one; That Arthur is not Batmans "Joker", but rather the origin for a kind of archetypical persona that says "Do what you will"; we see Bruces parents shot by someone wearing a clown mask, and given the age differences EVEN THEN, this is also not very likely to be Batmans "Joker", further demonstrating that the idea and "Character", in-universe, is loosely defined and can be worn like a mask by many different people, also harkening back to Jokers own "multiple choice" origin story he tells in Killing Joke. It's all essentially an homage to the comics, not an adaptation, and for some reason people can't see that.

[@sophanphin4199]

What a dumb, cheap ending.

[@nymphykitti]

@@sophanphin4199 IKR 😂😭😭😭😠😠

[@nymphykitti]

IKR 😂😭😭😭😠😠😠

[@hoordeyah]

nah. unsatisfying endings are good and valid. we need more endings like this to train everyone's ADHD brains to stop expecting satisfying endings for literally everything.

[@rydgemolino]

Tbh after this hes right theres no joker because the fact that lee is actully not insane and willingly put her self in arkham says alot

[@vladt.4507]

Director/script mistake. Joakin desirves an oscar for how he plays. Director and script let down the movie. Such a waste of good actors

[@zv3456u-]

WB Joker 2 the musical 2024 Budget $200M 2 hours 19 minutes

[@nimirist]

6:30 is when the video starts 🙌🏿

[@Liminally_ill]

In the first Joker, Arthur is the little man and the system crushes him but he somehow comes on top in a way. In the second movie Arthur is the little man and the system crushes him. He loses to the system. The second movie is more realistic.

[@trifectakush]

Joker became a symbol and mantle just like Batman. 2 halves to the same coin. Sometimes Batman creates joker sometimes joker creates Batman.

[@jtsauce2749]

The ending you can see the dude who killed Arthur cutting his mouth he is the real joker it’s not that hard to understand

[@mustafasadmansakib]

Yeah but hella stupid

[@jak3y3]

Yeah but if they’re hinting at that being the origin of Heath Ledger’s Joker, then that’s incredibly insulting.

[@Buckethead_408]

Even after the first one, they were saying Arthur isn't the real joker.

[@jtsauce2749]

@@jak3y3 true very true

[@trephix]

but he doesn´t look like the joker at all

[@GibsonFender]

Excellent sequel, and completely different, and daring. Really good

[@motivusthesage]

They really fumbled the bag with this one 😢

[@Young_Dab]

The trailer alone should've let you guys know that this was gonna be a disappointment

[@weed3728]

@@Young_Dabexactly but ppl were blindly hyped about it

[@Corsetdollx]

It was a good movie but not as great as the first.

[@LostUtopiaFilms]

I’m usually not one of those that says “movies need happy endings” but this one could’ve maybe used one 😅

[@lormingo5259]

That was the happy ending for him

[@anthonyroberts7641]

So its the prequel of the Joker's actual origin story. Of a man who is an actual clown with a laughing condition, who is also a murdering psychopath, that inspires the real joker. The jokes on us.

[@asee818]

Arthur was laying down the same way he was when he gets beat down by those kids in the 1st one before the title card pops up

[@TheLastApostle]

People need to stop thinking of these movies in a marvel sort of way. None of this was "canon" thr dc verse doesnt even start until rhe new superman movie. Not even the batman is guaranteed to be in the dc verse. Probably but we will see. Because it doesnt even begin until superman. These joker films were standalone movies with an original take on rhe joker story. Youll never be able to "fit" them into an extended story. Theyre not meant to be.

[@PunishedBrak]

Finally, someone else gets it. The best ways to look at these films is as an HOMAGE to the comics, not straight up, 1 for 1 ADAPTATIONS. For me, personally, the way all this Batman lore could never fit into "Batman" because of Bruce's age, it's almost as if "Batman" the media series, comics, movies, etc. are like the dreams and nightmares of a young Bruce Wayne watching as all of this happens around him in Gotham. Or, that perhaps these are the dreams of Bruce, and all the people he knows are here in ways they couldn't possibly be. That's the best way I've found to interpret these films without trying to shove them into any "Canon". But it's clear from the entirety of the first film that Fleck is NOT "Batmans" Joker, his villain and rival. Arthur Fleck is just a man; the Joker is an Idea. Bruce Wayne is just a man; Batman is an Idea.

[@samuraigundam0079]

What a bunch of BS. Arthur was clearly meant to be the one and only Joker. That Philip’s took that away from him, demonized the audience that liked the first film, and had him die a pathetic shell of himself, as he was at the beginning of the first film, is a sign that he really didn’t want to handle the character, or know what to do with the character going forward. ThatWB even approved this script goes to show that WB under Zaslav and the DCU under Gunn is going to fall apart going forward.

[@ThatGuy-vf1wj]

How is Arthur "clearly" meant to be The Joker? Bruce Wayne is a child in this iteration. When he becomes Batman, Arthur Fleck will be well in his 70's. This movie is great, give it time.

[@DanFarrell98]

Arthur died as a good man rather than lived as a monster. Oh damn, another Scorsese film

[@jak3y3]

He wasn’t looking to make a movie about The Clown Prince of Crime aka THE Joker? So why even call it Joker in the first place? And build Arthur up as the same character, aka, an emotionally broken, insane man who gets beaten down by everyone and eventually snaps and starts dressing like a clown and killing people? At that point it’s not even The Joker, it’s just Arthur Fleck. Building him up to inspire someone else to become THE Joker is just stupid and contradicts that first movie. It doesn’t make any sense.

[@servesiro]

@@jak3y3 he didn’t build him like joker he built the movement

[@ThatGuy-vf1wj]

Go watch the movie again. Hint: it's about the idea of Joker.

[@NickyDoyle]

No..... Its like fight club. He says he is not the joker. She leaves him. He has a visitor (her) he kills the version of himself she didn't want. He cuts himself and creates the version of joker we all know.

[@jayhosh8126]

@@NickyDoyle yeah, something tells me although the movie was bad and the director only made this to make a statement, maybe he cuts his own mouth killing "Arthur" which means he's there to stay, scars don't heal and are forever, instead of using his temporary makeup.

[@Alex_Logan22]

They would’ve used Joaquin to play both then if that was the case.

[@tomfallon8930]

@@jayhosh8126 we literally see another inmate killing Fleck on screen.

[@tomfallon8930]

Wrong Fleck never was and never will be the fully-fledged Joker, we presumably see the real Joker killing Fleck at the end.

[@Yoni123]

What this movie should've been was Joker and Harley Quinn wrecking havoc in Gotham

[@wiggbuggie863]

That would of been a cool idea for a third film if the ending and direction of the second was different. Like Harley orders the 2 guys to blowup the courthouse and they both run off etc.

[@aesop1451]

Yeah! And it should have Batman, Catwoman, Bane, the Penguin, Poison Ivy, and Mr. Freeze! More capeshit!

[@ThatGuy-vf1wj]

In other words fanservice bs that we have seen million of times in the comics. boooooring

[@deckerhand12]

Wasn’t a fan of the ending I completely missed the formation of the Joker that we know and love from the dark Knight movie

[@tenebb]

the one who killed athur fleck at last, is the real jokers

[@SmokeOneAndChill]

Everybody named Todd is destroying media. Todd howard from bethesda is ruining the studio and now this todd is destroying Joker.

[@psychedelicpiper999]

Don’t forget Todd from “Breaking Bad”. 😂

[@PunishedBrak]

KOMM, SUSSER TOD

[@TheGamesZilla492]

Only way psycho can be Health Ledgers Joker is if he was actually much older then we actually realized in the dark knight, as at end of Joker he would of been age of a child, so ages dont match up as it is.

[@Karlwasright]

Y'all are missing the point. There's several genocides happening while we're waiting for Joker to entertain us. This wasn't the sequel we wanted or needed. This was the sequel we fuckin' deserved.

[@LordZedd123]

@@Karlwasright we deserve a shitty movie because there are genicides happening? WTF…by the way the movie was awesome, your take is crazier than Arthur Flek!

[@coreypearson4]

"Folly ah dooh" The French: 👺👺👺👺👺👺🤬

[@gwest7912]

We ARE taking a trip through jokers mimd.

[@jwkonigs1567]

But if Arthur is not the Joker. Why did they introduce Harley then? Oh, wait, Harley is not the real Harley either. So this Harley is an inspiration for the real Harley. Who also by accident meets this Clown persona. It is a bit of a stretch.

[@PunishedBrak]

That can't even work, because Harvey Dent is in this one. The best ways to look at these films is as an HOMAGE to the comics, not ADAPTATIONS. For me, personally, the way all this Batman lore could never fit into "Batman" because of Bruce's age, it's almost as if "Batman" the media series, comics, movies, etc. are like the dreams and nightmares of a young Bruce Wayne watching as all of this happens around him in Gotham. Or, that perhaps these are the dreams of Bruce, and all the people he knows are here in ways they couldn't possibly be. That's the best way I've found to interpret these films without trying to shove them into any "Canon".

[@nintendolover114]

Calling it Joker is false advertising

[@J.AshtonMorgan]

Apparently, the canon/official/real name of The Joker is Jack Oswald White. It's never been Arthur... Makes me feel a bit different about the ending, now. Very interesting... Still too many musical scenes. 🤮

[@Demystificator]

Where can the interview be read ? Tbh, it just says the movie is cynical as hell. Everything going wrong for a character goes wrong and... that's it. But since they put the name "Joker", it made cash. Cynism at its best.

[@coreyjackson1647]

To me the movie was dope that's a dope twist you don't get those anymore not like that dope set up dope flick

[@MrBounceoutboi]

Well there was three jokers at one point

[@PunishedBrak]

Get that moebius chair outta here!

[@chheurhengnaroth734]

Arthur eases his hallucination by turning into music after he had met Harley and it is part of the cure. This sequel is different from the Joker 1 that is the reason that makes Joker fans disappointed and it is even more disappointing at the end of the movie, even Harley feels bad to Joker in the movie too. This should be called "Folie à l'une" instead of "deux". Anyway, Harley acts so well in the movie which might lead to part 3 of her journey. This movie is a good one, not bad at all.

[@marcbenson4699]

first was better, regardless of the goal, it was sad ending. Hope he isn't dead.

[@xAwesomeGamers]

Hes not, this movie is based before because he doesn’t even know Harley Quinn that much

[@Implosion-Gaming]

How is death sad when he got what he wanted. Everyone he loved lies to him including his mother and Harley so he deserves nothing but peace after his killings.

[@jj1234346]

Change the title to “jokers influence” and it makes sense

[@Kleinvadder]

They should made him rise as Joker and rule Gotham with harley quinn (fight the evil rich people and the bad cops) until he fights his depression together with Robert Pattinson - Batman

[@mounir1064]

The one killing arthur was The Joker.

[@NathanielTheStoryGamer]

Cigarettes: The Movie

[@Cole-h7c7k]

It was a nice love fantasy to space off into with a harsh reality setting in at the end.

[@guillenvilla1]

First movie could be somehow connected to the character... Folie a deux is simply not joker... very disappointing

[@tomfallon8930]

it's not supposed to be The Joker, it's a film about arthur fleck..

[@andrew-dg7ln]

People getting mad that it wasnt really THE joker literally fall into what the movie was tryibg to say, nobody (including the audience) cares about Arthur. Like all his supporters they only want joker

[@Kliqkid4life]

Cameron monaghan to, Joaquin Phoenix: First time? (IYKYK)

[@Bloodshotty]

IGN gives graping individuality out of someone a 7/10.

[@s.s.secretsocietyprim2967]

Why in the world would they kill him off that was the biggest mistake. Hopefully the 3rd one he escapes from the hospital. Who knows

[@AnimalTree215]

that’s what i’m saying… hopefully he lives, the joker is not a role that can be recasted quickly, and wether the meant it or not, they gave Joaquin THE joker role, he was the joker, and they killed him for some bs

[@Duggy-vk8qw]

@@AnimalTree215 literally when he was joker in the scene with Gary it was the best part of the movie

[@tomfallon8930]

because he is arthur fleck, not the Joker, Arthur Fleck's story was complete by the end of the movie. The true Joker that will go on to fight Batman is presumably the psychopath who murdered Fleck and then carved a smile onto his own face.

[@AnthonyCenname]

Worst sequel than Mortal Kombat: Annihilation

[@DanFarrell98]

Those scenes where he fires his lawyer then represents himself are incredible!

[@brunono1987]

Full movie is just a Joker’s fantasy. They refer to 6 murders, and they were actually 7 including the psychiatrist from Joker 1. So, he is not dead, this fantasy occurs at the time he is kept in Arkham, at the end of Joker 1.

[@PunishedBrak]

The director said at the time, not wanting to do a sequel, that it was supposed to be "ambiguous" as to whether he attacked the psychiatrist or not; but, on making the second movie because WB didn't make enough with the first, he decided upon "Arthur was delusional" in that meeting. I don't agree with it; just saying what the director has said about that specific detail.

[@RicardoSantos-oz3uj]

So Joker is not a person but a movement? Like Anonymous. Anyone can be Anonymous. And anyone can be Joker. Is that it?

[@PunishedBrak]

Basically, yes. The tv series Gotham did the same thing.

[@fuggit4638]

Yall are slow. Arthur is the pioneer of Joker. Joker is an idea or a title not a person. Harley is a groupie for the ideology. The guy who kills Arthur in the movie wants the title of the Joker

[@PunishedBrak]

Bruce Wayne is only a Man; but, Batman is an Idea; He's larger than life and can do what others can't. Arthur Fleck is only a Man; but, The Joker is an Idea; He's larger than life and can do what others can't.

[@rozeriley6548]

@@PunishedBrak What other Batmans are there other than Bruce Wayne?

[@PunishedBrak]

@@rozeriley6548 Really? Dick Grayson. Azrael aka Jean Paul Valley. Gordon. Damian Wayne. Cassandra Cain. Thomas Wayne (alternate universe but I'll take it, wasn't his idea) Jason Todd. (Battle for the Cowl) Terry McGinnis (The "future" of Batman Beyond) Did you never watch Batman Begins? I'm quoting Alfred when he's discussing using Fear as a weapon against criminals with Bruce. The Idea can do what no "ordinary" human can, the concept that Batman, as an Idea, can achieve that which seems to be impossible for us with names; the same applies to the Joker. It's called "The Mantle of the Bat" for a reason; lots of people other than Bruce have been "Batman".

[@The1Romanator]

Arthur killed 5 ppl(3 Wall Street men, Randal and Murray) his mom is number 6. So what happen in the ending of part 1? So he didn’t kill the therapist? Cuz he walked out leaving blood prints down the hallway.

[@para5ito]

Why don't you gather 200 millions and shoot your own movie? Maybe that could possibly fulfill your expectations. I've read a lot of comments saying the failures of the film, but none telling what exactly they would change to make a better movie. The fact that a movie secuel don't responds to your expectations, does not make it a bad one.

[@psychedelicpiper999]

People didn’t want it to be a musical. They wanted more plot. And they wanted more character development from Harley Quinn.

[@PunishedBrak]

Less musical scenes which would've allowed the plot more room to breathe. Develop Harlequin a bit more; you could do that, by cutting those musical scenes. Again, they add nothing except "Arthur's delusional", which we already know. For me, personally, the way all this Batman lore could never fit into "Batman" because of Bruce's age, it's almost as if "Batman" the media series, comics, movies, etc. are like the dreams and nightmares of a young Bruce Wayne watching as all of this happens around him in Gotham. Or, that perhaps these are the dreams of Bruce, and all the people he knows are here in ways they couldn't possibly be. That's the best way I've found to interpret these films without trying to shove them into any "Canon". But it's clear from the entirety of the first film that Fleck is NOT "Batmans" Joker, his villain and rival. Arthur Fleck is just a man; the Joker is an Idea. Bruce Wayne is just a man; Batman is an Idea.

[@flouserschird]

Won’t be watching the movie due to terrible reviews, but I’ll watch this.

[@asee818]

Have your own opinion

[@AGFASANO]

The real Joker’s name is Jack Oswald White. From the very start, I always had my doubts about whether this version of the Joker was the true one-and now, it turns out I was right all along.

[@aronscott9698]

Let’s be honest here people. If the first movie was just called Arthur and it wasn’t set against the backdrop of a comic book character… would anyone been interested in seeing it? Would it have made!a billion bucks?

[@Van-w6q]

This made me love Joker 2 so much more

[@Arissantari]

It was never supposed to be the Joker… then why the hell did you call him Joker? Why the hell did you connect him with the Wayne family? Why the hell is the girl obsessed with him named Harley Quinn? ‘Yeah, but it’s obvious because of the time gap between…’ then why the hell is Harvey Dent in the movie?

[@MBay3131]

This movie shouldn't happen. This is a high school musical Joker

[@xskyzel]

High School Musical is Oscar worthy comparing to this movie

[@MyEagle50]

First joker always portrayed Arthur wasn’t joker …. Of course second one was bound to end like this. Dunno what audience expected honestly

[@tristanlambert658]

Such a perplexing film. At face value it’s awful and an insult to the source material, but from an artistic perspective, it’s really clever and well crafted.

[@maryolguin4372]

This!

[@ThatGuy-vf1wj]

Exactly. People who can seperate The Joker from the comics clearly enjoy it more than most people who come with expectations of the Mark Hamill Joker.

[@mickobee]

Didn't know ending explained meant fuck it well sumise the whole film

[@kitchenaidwhiskeyjones]

It literally said "SPOILER ALERT" at the beginning.

[@cryptozex]

@@kitchenaidwhiskeyjoneswell duh but even explaining the ending and the ending only would contains spoilers. Mick has a point lmao

[@kitchenaidwhiskeyjones]

@@cryptozex Uh, yes, that's why it said SPOILER alert, yet here he is complaining about spoilers. I've seen erasers with better points.

[@mickobee]

@@kitchenaidwhiskeyjones ? Did you even read my reply

[@kitchenaidwhiskeyjones]

@@mickobee Yeah, but it was a stupid ass reply, so... 🤷

[@RobMost]

The only good thing this movie brought, is the humour of hearing people try to pronounce French.