Joker: Folie à Deux - trailer reaction

✔ SUPPORT ✔
Patreon: / councilofgeeks
Tip jar: PayPal.me/councilofgeeks
✔ SHOP ✔
Merch: www.teepublic.com/user/counci...
Book that I Wrote: a.co/d/atfibBA
✔ SOCIAL MEDIA ✔
Twitter: / councilofgeeks
Facebook: / councilofgeeks
TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@verawylde?lan...
Instagram: council.of....
Twitch: twitch.tv/councilofgeeks
✔ OTHER PROJECTS ✔
Podcast feed: councilofgeeks.libsyn.com/
✔ CONTACT ✔
E-mail: [e-mail]
Mail:
Council of Geeks
PO Box 4429
St. Johnsbury, VT 05819

[@CriticalFangirl]

The subtitle Folie a Deux means "A shared delusion." Which honestly is a great subtitle for the film's story.

[@CriticalFangirl]

Also, will you review The People's Joker? It's an indie parody film that re-contextualizes Joker as a trans woman trying to bring humor to Gotham and Batman as an egocentric fascist. And it's made by and stars a trans woman, also features a T4T relationship which we rarely see.

[@davemeers37]

The subtitle means Madness for two

[@CriticalFangirl]

@@davemeers37 My bad

[@davemeers37]

@@CriticalFangirl it’s all good I had to look it up myself lol

[@TheSylda]

​@@davemeers37 literally yes, but in (pop) psychology it refers to a shared delusion, and I think it's more likely to refer to that

[@TechnicalOtaku]

I really enjoyed the first movie and thought the fact that it didn't have a super clear message to be a benefit of it. The movie sets a lot of questions and messages up and then drops them as Arthur falls further and further into becoming the joker. By the end of the movie he doesn't care about medication/mental health, finding out more about his family, the economic state of Gotham or anything else. He asks all these questions about himself and the world around him in the first half and then gives up asking or thinking them by the end. By not fully exoring the a certain message in the movie it puts the audience in the shoes of a man completely lost in life who doesn't know who to blame and doesn't have any way out which leads him down the road he goes. That's my interpretation of it at least and Im no expert on anything

[@sproductionsinc]

It hit me hard. Very realistic portrayal of mental illness & society.

[@scaper8]

That's more or less how I read it, as well. The fact that he basically started a full armed uprising and cares more for the pretty colors evidence of just how detached he'd become from, well, everything. Now, I can totally see why this doesn't work for many, but for me, I think the portrait of isolation works best without a clear answer as to what to do about it.

[@conorcrilly1304]

I think this film is going to flip the dynamic between Joker and Harley... I get the vibe feom this trailer that shes gonna be the one pulling the strings and manipulating Arthur, abusing him and taking advantage of his fragile mental state...

[@scaper8]

Oooo. That could be an interesting take!

[@zacclifford3419]

I don’t understand how not many people have picked up on this, as soon as I watched the trailer the first thing I thought was “oh Harley is the manipulator in this” See I think she idolises the joker because of the events of the last film, Arthur doesn’t care about revolution or being a voice for the people, he just wants to be seen. So she manipulates him into doing what she wants and they end up in a folks á dux relationship, and if you look into folks á dux relationships you can kinda guess how the film is gonna end (if you don’t know what they are like don’t look into it just in case of spoilers)

[@poeticsparrow]

I just worry that would feed into the weird incel idea that women are all narcissists

[@moyaxoxo5923]

Not the vibe I get at all. I see that she makes him see thing’s beautifully for the first time. He’s in love. And someone loves him for the first time. A man that is unlovable. He’s high on it. They both are , and they become addicted to the high they’re delusions being them. This version of their romance looks the least abusive and more so two broken ppl relying on each other hence the title shared madness. Seems way more equal. Less her worshiping him more them worshipping each other while being detached from reality . I can’t wait to see it. It’s definitely one to force myself into the cinema.

[@Starbush69]

I liked Joker…mostly for the visuals and Joaquin Phoenix’s performance.😅 I can see why people would call it overrated. And as unevenly paced as the first Joker movie was, I’m still interested to see what bizarre or unique elements its sequel will bring. I love Lady Gaga, and I like that it’s going in a musical direction. This should give leeway for more DC films to continue being more experimental, but with the way things are done at Warner Brothers atm, it’s unlikely.

[@craigcharlesworth1538]

You can see why they did another because the first made a billion dollars on a 60 million dollar budget. But they've spent $200m on this one, amid a shrinking market for comic book movies. This might come back and bite them on the arse, especially as the first one seems to have been reassessed in a more negative light by a lot of people since it came out. But then I said the same thing about the second Avatar, so who knows?

[@otakuofmine]

I liked the first, not because its any deep or great story - but it is relatable and it makes you root for him because of it until you realise you shouldnt. Given with how immature the director went about it and in interviews, we might never know if that was intentional or accidental, and that he indeed was just edgelording. I was quite shook after it, but more so on reflecting how it is as nihilistic and unjust as the real world, that it doesnt try any story or message. Did I "enjoy" it than? Kinda and mostly thx to the dialogue and Phoenix' acting. When it was announced that there would be a sequel, I wondered already why. Even if it would have been a great movie, there was no reason for it. Having seen the trailer now, they obviously dont even try anything with it. I am confused why Phoenix was on board. Gaga is an odd choice anyways and in this time, when the Harley persona has shifted I loathe the incoming "joker and harley best couple" people coming in... plus, already when I see the comments under the trailer - people who didnt have the least media literacy to understand anything more than "joker awesome" uurg.

[@sproductionsinc]

How is it not deep? The first one had a ton of depth.

[@otakuofmine]

@@sproductionsinc in sense of story. so depends what u mean.

[@arklestudios]

I literally only know how to pronounce the subtitle of this movie because it shares the name with a night club that the climactic scene of Book One of the 7th Son Trilogy by J.C. Hutchins takes place in.

[@robo3007]

The first movie is my favourite movie of the last decade, so I'm actually really hyped for this! I actually found the commentary the first movie made on mental issues in particular to be incredibly nuanced, and Joaquin Phoenix's portrayal of the Joker to have a lot of depth also. In regards to the controversy, I think Joaquin Phoenix said it best when he said "I don't think it's the responsibility of a filmmaker to teach the audience morality".

[@Moonbeam143]

I have a feeling that Joker in this will be like he is in the comic. He'll be abusing Harley in the movie, but of course in his head, he'll be thinking he's nice, and sweet.

[@andrewklang809]

Nah, that's not THIS Joker. THIS Joker is the Joker for the angry, edgelord white d00ds. THIS Joker doesn't abuse Harley (and if he does, she actually likes it). THIS Joker is a victim of The System. THIS Joker is the everyman. THIS Joker is THE ultimate angry, edgelord white d00d. And Harley is his faithful girlfriend, who understands him and lets him do whatever he wants. The first one grossed a billion. Warner Bros are gonna be slopping up so much red meat to the fanbase. They need a big hit badly, and they know this is their safest bet. There will be NO challenging the core audience.

[@Cybernautz]

Yeah I think Harley is gonna be the abuser in this one tbh Would be an interesting twist on their normal dynamic

[@sophiecooper1824]

​​@@Cybernautz there was a behind the scenes on the stairs where he shakes her violently. I'm very interested how it will come to this but I'm glad they keep that aspect of his character . I think they will show the abuse as well maybe they will do it to each other . We don't know yet. Also we got abusive Harley already in the Telltale game

[@meander112]

Engagement for the engagement god!

[@PhenomVR]

LMFAOOOOO

[@Daelyah]

I enjoyed the first film for the AU that it is, but I do acknowledge that Arthur is a villain, and the sequel is no more "romantic" than the main comic book version of the Joker and Harley pairing. Arthur and Harley in Folie À Deux are drastically different AUs to the comic book characters they are based on, though I think they have potential to be interesting characters to throw into bizarre fan fiction. I get that the first Joker film is divisive on numerous accounts, but I've had my share of horrible movies I loved regardless. I'm the weirdo who's dealt with maladaptive daydreaming for decades, and I looked at Phoenix's version of Joker and went, "another one for the pile of dubious blorbos!" Mind, that "pile of dubious blorbos" involves Skyrim's Cicero, Yakuza's Majima, Sir Anthony Hopkins' version of Hannibal Lecter, and even monster villains from across different media (like the average BG3 weirdo adoring Astarion-gotta acknowledge he's a parasite of a walking red flag, but my dumbass has no qualms with making the Dark Urge the vampirespawn's juicebox...though primarily with the intent to push those two murderhobos in my BG3 runs to seek redemption). I like enjoying the fictophile villain crushes, and can still acknowledge they are utterly ridiculous. It's a matter of keeping aware of *FICTION* not spilling over too much into reality; keep the fatherless behavior in check, and maintain tolerable goblin impulses...in other words, appreciating fiction as fiction with perhaps more gusto than is necessary, but still remaining aware of what needs to be left in fiction. I'm lucky my nesting partner can tolerate how much of a fangirling mess I can be, especially when it comes to the more villainous blorbos. 😅

[@thefragrantwookiee]

I'm a huge comics fan but I've had Joker on DVD and unwatched for more than a year for exactly the reasons you've stated. From the first trailer it seemed to be leaning into the blindingly obvious and ten-a-penny 'it's all society's fault, so it's okay that he's a bad guy' tropes. And yeah, this trailer definitely makes the sequel look like they're going to lean into the Joker/Harley dynamic being genuinely romantic, which misses the point altogether. This, in fact, is why I was never onboard with the idea of a Joker story without Batman even existing in that world. It is the dynamic between the Joker and the Batman which defines the villain... his relationship with Harley was never more than a sideshow and her realising that is the most important part of her character development. If you take all of that out, why bother using these characters at all (the answer, of course, simply being that they're a KNOWN IP and that's all marketing executives care about, not integrity to the narrative).

[@rachelbecknell4259]

My reaction to this is that Harley is the more interesting character. I loved the cartoon series where she tried and often failed to build relationships with people who aren't the Joker. We don't need another movie about him. We need more about HER.

[@misner1989]

This looks brilliant

[@Sourcoolness]

Sometimes, the people behind something are the best ones to deconstruct it. The Brady Bunch movie was made by the original creators and it's still one of the best parodies ever made. So, you never know.

[@Tuaron]

I was also mostly morbidly curious/wondering how they'd try to sell this film, as I was not a fan of the first and really didn't want a sequel (then again, I often clash with people on Joaquin Phoenix roles, my favourite of his is Inherent Vice). That said, I was curious enough to watch the trailer and found it better than I expected but also...oddly repetitious, redoing so many "iconic" moments from the first film, though I think that's part of the point. I might watch it at some point, but I'm not eager.

[@Hamzahasanlse]

The Peoples Joker is finally out if youre interested in it

[@scaper8]

Oh, is it? I was mostly interested in it for the fact that lawyers and executives were trying to quash it, but the general idea is still interesting enough to support it and give it a watch.

[@chaserseven2886]

the obsession with thing always needing a point is stupid

[@JohnBainbridge0]

Almost as stupid as making art with no point. That's literally pointless. Might as well be AI then.

[@salahlar]

@@JohnBainbridge0 It's a story, the story in itself is the point.

[@R.senals_Arsenal]

I liked the 1st film, but I didn't think it was as amazing as my sister did, she just went on and on about it. The title, translated as The Folly of Two (I know this cause a Japanese metal band I like had an album of this title) could mean it might be a slight deconstruction, or at the very least the characterizing them as both fools, but then again it might just be "fools in love." IDK. I think my major gripe will be it being a musical. I don't tend to like musicals.

[@jimmyrrpage]

I... I actually defended the first film when I saw it the first time, but I thought about it more, saw it again, and... it's not a Joker film. It basically a character study with the Joker shoved over top. This one looks exactly the same. It's not actually Joker... or Harley Quinn. They're just using the names for some reason. I don't know if I'll see it. I kind of agree with you, here, TBH...

[@stephennootens916]

The first one felt like a wannabe Taxi Driver without the discomfort that Taxi Driver had.

[@PhenomVR]

@@stephennootens916 because it was nowhere near taxi driver. It was more of king of comedy.

[@PhenomVR]

Yes and no… The film is trying to make you feel bad for Arthur through Joker’s “narration.” He’s literally just telling a story to us and the psychiatrist at Arkham at the end of the movie, which he ended up killing her and trying to escape. Joker has always been a massive manipulator in the comics when it comes to his storytelling.

[@shaunhouse8469]

In the first movie it's hard to see how Phoenix's version of the Joker had the charisma to get anybody hooked on him apart from the sole fact he murdered some people and it seems unlikely that a doctor working in a institute for the criminal insane which would have murderers everywhere would get the buzz for one in particular

[@crisvelundertale2159]

i always have faith in anything Gaga's on, so i feel hopeful with this movie

[@JoshuaMutant]

Well as a big big big fan of the first film, I don't harbor any resentment towards you for having a different perspective. All art is subjective. Appreciate your take on this even though I disagree. 🫶

[@benjamindavis4974]

I feel like the only one who really loved Joker

[@benjamindavis4974]

@@Alec_Collins78 But I loved it

[@benjamindavis4974]

@@Alec_Collins78 Joaquin Phoenix's performance gave me goosebumps

[@Nicholas_is_my_name]

​@@benjamindavis4974 Ok What do you want us to do with that information or did you just want to shout into the void for attention? I want a video of someone who clearly doesn't like it

[@robo3007]

Definitely not! It's actually my second favourite comic book movie of all time, just behind the Dark Knight.

[@booksvsmovies]

I mean it made a billion dollars and Joaquin Phoenix won an oscar for it so you definitely aren't alone.

[@bobmathis-friedman6742]

One of your colleagues theorized that the manipulation/abuse may be on Harley's part, this time around...

[@bryonstump8115]

Think you called it about right.

[@michellemoore7829]

I'm interested in the movie because it's absolutely a baffling choice to make this a musical, I'm interested in the point about the Chicago style choice because I think implicit in that framing device is portraying the characters detached from reality, so I don't know how you think the film will play this straight.

[@sephirothii13]

I watched this and while I normally don't feel a movie HAS to be "about" something, the first joker movie claimed it was trying to be "about" something. it wasn't but whatever, but what is this movie even trying to be "about" save trying to make more money on the fanboys from the first one? I also really have to question why Lady Gaga wanted to be a part of this project with fanbase from the first one... *shrugs* oh well.

[@sky1846]

I haven't seen the first film but I am interested in this one (mainly because of Lady Gaga though). Some of the gun shots like how it's mimed in the trailer (pointing the gun to the head) seem a bit too "edgy" for my taste though. I hope that the comments are nice to you on this, and your pets are adorable!

[@sproductionsinc]

The gun scene is a callback.

[@PhenomVR]

@@sproductionsinc”I haven’t seen the first film”

[@theshadowdirector]

Think you might see it if reviews are less divided?

[@BreakRoomofGeeks]

Unlikely.

[@starace4031]

I have very similar feelings to Vera. When I watched this trailer, I actually didn't feel very much about it. My initial feelings being that the first film will likely be one I prefer to this sequel. I would love this film to be more grounded - show the realism to the whole situation and deconstruct the Joker & Harley relationship. I would maybe enjoy it if the whole film is within the Joker & Harley's minds and they remain where they are. Like they picture being outside etc but aren't actually there. And show the impact of these dreams/this relationship on each of the characters etc. While I love and appreciate Lady Gaga & her artistry, I'm not entirely sure on her acting in this (based off the trailer). Obviously her singing will be fantastic no doubt. But I'll probably need to see more of the film to judge how well she portrays the character. Overall, I was probably more interested in the film when there were some set photos and clips released of Gaga on set. Now with this trailer, I don't know how much I really care about the film and it will be based on seeing more of it when it releases, unfortunately the trailer didn't make me more excited for it as I'd hope it would have.

[@stephennootens916]

The first one was more or less a rip off of taxi driver which is an amazing and King Of Comedy.

[@PhenomVR]

How?

[@notuptome]

Well, who knows how this film is gonna do in theaters? The first one made over a billion dollars. So who knows? But I'm wanting to assume I guess based on whenever everyone else is obviously coming to the conclusion is that if there are any actual musical sequences in the film that it's all in their heads. That none of it is actually happening as it's being shown. This movie very well, maybe a look at the psyche of delusional minds.

[@kevin10001]

Even though I enjoyed the first one even though it felt like they pulled from different eras of the character and mashed them together like the dark knight returns for author wanting to be on the talk show clearly inspired by the Johnny Carson era of the tonight show unlike the animated adaptation of the dark knight returns thst was inspired by Conan O’Brien’s talk show and I can’t see lady Gaga being a good Harley cause the dceu tried 3 times and failed 3 times to make Margo Robbie Harley and they couldn’t get it right cause we ended up get 3 different performances out of Margo with each appearance cause of not understanding the character and it looks like the same here they are not understanding Harley

[@stephennootens916]

To me Harley if she is with anyone its posion ivy. To me Joker is just an abusive asshole ex she finally got away from.

[@andrewklang809]

Live action Poison Ivy in the next Harley movie. Gunn would be insane to pass that up.

[@buffyVampslyr364]

Especially with the audience that's drawn to these movies, and the Joker/Harley pairing to begin with.. I wonder if a movie that deconstructs the first movie/the fan base would also severely alienate or anger that group of people, and despite probably being the people that would need to get that message the most, would lead to the movie failing anyway? Idk..🤔

[@NoahL_]

bold of you to assume they'd even get the subtext

[@andrewklang809]

The first movie grossed a billion. They're not going to risk angering the fanbase. This version of The Joker can do no wrong, and they'll want the fanbase to be reassured that he's their hero.

[@sproductionsinc]

What type of audience do you think likes this?

[@EnchantedEssays]

Lovely stuff as always! I agree with most of what you said. It looks interesting, but I doubt it will be able to pull it off. I liked the first one more than you did, but I do think it's overrated. There's nothing apart from the costume that makes Gaga seem like Harley Quinn at all, and I'm saying that as someone who knows very little about comics in general. Glad to see Steve Coogan in it though! Brilliant actor.

[@gozerthegozarian9500]

"I've allowed my memory of this movie to fade." Correct choice imho.

[@JohnBainbridge0]

I really dislike that Harley's not a psychiatrist in this movie. Way to remove her agency. Like, there might be a chance that this is all in Joker's head and Harley actually is his shrink... but I'm not holding out hope for that twist.

[@stephennootens916]

In my mind it makes no sense to change Harley.

[@andrewklang809]

Harley never had agency so long as she was with Mistah J. She was written to fall in love with him against her better judgement (like he seduced or even hypnotized her with his awesomeness) and be unable to leave him even when she recognizes that he hurts her and doesn't respect her wishes one bit. It's literally referred to by her creators as "Mad Love" - mad as in she is not responsible for her actions. Zero agency. Birds of Prey (oTFEoOHQ) was Harley with agency. And The Suicide Squad's Harley as well, to a lesser extent. She made hard choices and stuck with them.

[@sproductionsinc]

She still has agency as a patient.

[@pobstrel]

She is a psychiatrist in this movie. She uses music therapy to connect with the inmates.

[@pobstrel]

​@@stephennootens916They haven't. She is still a psychiatrist in this.

[@WhataName12]

I have always said that the first Joker is a really good movie but not a very good Joker movie. The director has made it very clear that he does not care about comics so he is just using the characters popularity to make movies that has the name and some of the imagery but very little else from the source material. I would almost be impressed by the fact that he managed that if he was not so pretentious about it. It really is a shame cause the director clearly has talent and can direct a good looking movie, but he does not understand the character and frankly seems embarrassed by the source material. I do hope when his trilogy is done(yes it will become a trilogy, mark my words) that we get a new director to make a Joker movie or series that is not an origin and more of a psycological dark comedi instead of a sad drama. But hey, thats just my opinion. 🤡

[@PhenomVR]

Damn, if people are really holding on to the “source material” for characters then The Dark Knight’s joker was garbage with that same logic. Also, Arthur giving a “narration” to the therapist at the end of the movie just to end up killing her sounds like comic book Joker to me 🤷‍♂️

[@oliversvoice4383]

I’ve seen the trailer a couple times, outside of this reaction, and all I see is the first film but with two leads & music… and, as much as I *hope* this isn’t the case, I can’t help but think Lady Gaga’s Harley will be Harley in name only, much like how Phoenix’s Joker (in my opinion) is Joker in name only; I can say the same for the first film in general. Will I see it? Yeah, and I’m looking forward to the trip itself, but this trailer doesn’t give me much to get excited about.

[@benjamindavis4974]

However I respect your opinion

[@calebmarmon1310]

The message of The Joker is that everyone is mean and bad to him and made him the way he is, but mostly his mom. And if you have any particular axes to grind socially or politically, you can totally read that specifically as the intended message.

[@superkid801]

Yeah, I'm not excited for this. I did not like the first one, my dad and I saw the first and went one and done. It just makes me not happy. Hope everyone else enjoys it

[@knitcrochettiger361]

come on....don't discredit that even villains can find love....Joker and Harley are NOT the only villains that found love....Thanos and Lady Death....King Pin (Walter Fisk) and Vanessa....and many others....even villains need to be loved :) :) :) :)

[@saphcal]

im on the fence about this because im not a huge fan of musicals...

[@PK-MegaLolCaT]

Yeah no, joker ain’t a superficial movie and it does have a point .. several points actually.. mainly about people being a bunch of narcissist that can’t imagine a world outside their own narratives .. and shocking displays and actions not changing a damn thing about it it also about how unreliable are the sources information we build does narratives with.

[@PhenomVR]

EXACTLY, the whole movie is from his narration, the movie is trying to trick you to feeling bad for Arthur even root for him, when in reality the real “Arthur” just killed a therapist and walked in her blood at the end of the movie. That is the whole characterization of the Joker, he manipulates you until it’s too late, walking/dancing in your blood. He calls himself the clown prince of crime for a reason.

[@jmsbnd]

I don't trust jukebox musicals in general why would it do any better when you add joker on top of it.

[@PaulAndroid]

Basically everything about the first movie except the screenplay was pretty great. I’d say that the best thing about this trailer is that Todd Phillips doesn’t seem to be ripping off Scorsese and ONLY Scorsese this time. If I can’t hope for any more depth, I can at least hope for something less derivative.

[@quinncrook6058]

The best way for this movie is for Harley to become disillusioned with Joker because she realizes that he's just an incel, grows and ultimately causes his death.

[@sproductionsinc]

How is he an incel? I've never understood this. Women had little to do with his story.

[@quinncrook6058]

@@sproductionsinc He has delusions of a relationship with his upstairs neighbor, and after she rejects him blames her because he's mentally ill. This whole subplot, if you can call it that, very much has that tone and is uncomfortable. It's filled with the male gaze and at best is stalking and harassment.

[@Benji567891]

Your comment shows a lack of understanding what an incel is. Your comment is a paradox because an Incel would never be in a relationship with Harley, that alone literally means he's not an incel, so she can't grow an realize he's an incel. He's mentally ill, lonely, but not an incel.

[@jamiedoe6822]

I thought I was the only who didn’t get the point.

[@michaelyapp3254]

Well as long as the Joker actually tells some jokes this time it’s already better.

[@jintym2951]

I completely agree that your pitch would be the most fascinating angle for a sequel to Joker. Unfortunately, they've already in this trailer basically announced that's not it. Because if it were that, the only title that would make sense for that deconstruction angle would be "Harley". They're definitely doing the Edge Lord dark and toxic glorification thing 😒 Like this depiction will be the anti "Birds of Prey (and the Fantabulous Emancipation of one Harley Quinn" movie. I'd be delighted to be wrong of course though

[@Nicholas_is_my_name]

The trailer just feels so extremely cringey to me It just looks like it's going for interesting visuals and cool moments instead of anything cohesive Like Harley with the finger gun headshot and the end with the lipstick

[@saphcal]

thats kinda the point afaik. you cant trust anything you say because it could all be in Joker's head.

[@marvellousm]

I absolutely hated the first film, I'm pretty bummed out that Gaga is in this because I think she's awesome.

[@Fantomaslives]

This movie is not made for you.

[@bedsidearts]

Yuck!!!! But pretty

[@jack_rabbit]

yawn

[@gozerthegozarian9500]

Uh...no. Just no. Not even for Gaga.