X-Men '97 Episode 5 made me cry: a stunned review

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[@RefreshCinema]

"How often must the scoundrel prove himself a hero, before he believes it himself?" - Professor Charles Xavier's last words to Gambit.

[@cjayconrod]

I hope this series wakes the executives at Disney/Marvel up. Superpowers are cool, but it's the relationships between characters that keep us interested.

[@TimothyCollins]

True. Thing being, the X-Men were always at least half soap opera so this is kinda the perfect show to demonstrate what you are saying.

[@alexissandren1884]

@@TimothyCollins The Nando Cut said it best: "X-men when it works are three things: backflips, civil rights and soap opera".

[@TimothyCollins]

@alexissandren1884 never heard of that channel, but someone else said that to me recently. If I had to put percentages on it - 75% soap opera and the rest are split equally. Same with tge avengers. Over at DC, the justice league can focus more in action, but marvel needs to focus on the soapy aspects.

[@alexissandren1884]

@@TimothyCollins I agree. Although Avengers feel more like workplace drama than soap opera. :)

[@nomisunrider6472]

Honestly I haven’t seen nearly enough creators who acknowledge that the episode was based on two things: 9/11, and the Pulse shooting. The show runner used to go to Pulse and wanted to evoke that feeling of someplace where you went to be safe and to be yourself being violently destroyed, innocent lives cut short, people you loved dying senselessly, just because an extremist hated you for existing. The idiots who call XMen woke for having a non-binary character don’t get that it has always been our story.

[@RyanofPower]

A friend made the comments that they are nailing the 'our original viewers are now adults' vibes and I couldn't agree more. Acknowledging that this is a continuation of a show from the 90s and those fans are now in their 30s so they get to explore more adult themes

[@RainCityWhispers]

*cough* 40s *cough* :P

[@Immudelki]

@@RainCityWhispers that. indeed. I'm 32 so my generation is the one of x-men evolution, not 97' : D (for which I would love a continuation too, but hey, xmen97' is very cool already)

[@JeffHanke]

All the stuff you mentioned and so many other good moments in this one: - Someone pointed out there's a shot of the sky where you can see The Watcher. - Cable saying "I'm so sorry, mom." to Madelyn as he slides out. - A bunch of mutants getting crushed by a statue of Professor X. - Ever. Single. Thing. Gambit does wearing his white suit. So good. If they hadn't been knocking it out of the park so far I'd be more worried they'll just fix it all with timey wimey BS.

[@OldManFerdiad]

This was so well done I'm genuinely hoping for timey wimey BS to save them all... maybe Cable tries again and this time it works? Krakoa has made me soft and I just want them all to pop out of Arbor Magna, but I know it ain't so. But as I think Prof X said "heaven has a revolving door for X-Men", so I'm hoping there is a satisfying resolution. I'd be satisfied if they stay dead for a while and come back in the finale or Season 2, because this shouldn't be a cheap gimmick of an episode.

[@solvseus]

Me: Hm, was that the Watcher? Also me: oh no, the Watcher...

[@nick5661]

I don't blame you crying I didn't think I'd be emotional for 97 just a fun nostalgic trip but my god my jaw dropped for this.

[@evaserration6223]

I was okay with Jean kissing Logan (not morally but character wise) because it was an indication of her mindset that even though she is fully understanding of the weird situation with her, Scott and Madelyne, there is still the natural resentment that Scott had a baby with another woman. The understanding made it worse as she had no outlet for it. Logan (who overwhelmed her with emotion when she read his mind) became the only outlet for that. If only to ask the question of whether she can be her own person without Scott. And Logan for his part, doesn't bite as he knows this and doesn't want to be the rebound guy while Jean is in this messy state, he has a bit of self respect and walks away.

[@evaserration6223]

Even before then, this episode had many jaw dropping moments. Namely Scott losing it on national television and him and Jean really delving into where their relationship is. Mojo was wrong, people (me) would love to watch "Divorce Court: Grey vs Summers'

[@Starbush69]

Damn. Yeah, this was easily the best episode so far. Rogue’s line to Gambit at the end was so heartbreaking yet satisfying, cause it takes what you know and love about these characters with powerful imagery and symbolism that hits you with a flood of emotions. And the music during the credits was the cherry on top of this ballsy sundae…I mean ending. 😅

[@JenniferFuss]

Just watched the episode and I am totally flored :( For me the moment where Magneto says "Hab keine Angst" totally destroyed me. It took me even a few minutes to realize that he spoke German (I am a native speaker). I somewhat doubtthat he will come back. The other thing that got me was the report about Genosha, which had me instantly thinking about Gaza. Well and of course Rouges last words. Oh and playing Happy Nation from Ace of Base, cutting it completly out at a certain point, was kinda tough as well. (Though it gave me major 90s vibes)

[@Stargazer_Ley]

I agree with you on so much of this, esp the stuff with Scott/Jean/Logan. Though listening, I almost wonder if Scott was trying to work through his relationship with Madylene's help. She's helping him work through his feelings because Scott was calling her Jean. That aside, I also loved the maturity of the Erik/Rogue/Remy plot. The idea that both men could accept her decision and not fight her on was important considering how they had been. I do disagree on one thing but I think that might be a matter of perspective. Rogue never says "you can't touch me" only that she cannot touch him. The phrasing of this leads me to believe she wants to because that's the expectation. That's what people in love do, right? But Remy tells her some things are deeper than skin, once more trying to tell her that he loves her regardless of whether or not she can touch him. Again, she believes this isn't true, that he wants more and that love needs touch. When she turns down Erik after the kiss and dance where the only sparks are his powers, she tells hi that Remy was right, some things are deeper than skin. At this point she accepts that she loves Remy in a way that she doesn't love Erik and that the ability to touch isn't enough to deny it. I want him to come back, if for no other reason than to give the show the opportunity to show that love doesn't require touch to survive. That adults can be in love without expressing that love in what society expects. I think the reason I read their relationship this way is because I'm ace and because I see myself in Rogue. I understand the confilict of expressing love in a way society will both accept but will still be true to me. A woman who can't have sex and yet still finds love speaks to me. Not because I can't but because I don't want to but it took a while to realize that I didn't and that it didn't stop me from loving someone.

[@TimothyCollins]

I was getting the Mutant Massacre vibes from the start of this episode. But as soon as I saw the outline of the Watcher in the sky and Cable popping up, I kinda knew something BIG was coming. Plus... Kudos to this show for actually embracing the WWII origins of Magneto. And the plot point were pretty strikingly mature. Great episode all around.

[@RainCityWhispers]

You brought up something me and one of my boyfriends were discussing in that the depictions of the various love polygons in this episode are well done because it's really hard to fully side with one person over another. Everyone has both their points and their cracks in their arguments and everyone gets rightfully called out at different points for their varying shades of selfishness, dishonesty, hypocrisy, etc. These are messy, complicated, multi-dimensional characters much like people are in real life. One thing we brought up is the difference between DC and Marvel in that DC depicts gods trying to be human whereas Marvel depicts humans who have, mostly accidentally and/or unwillingly, become gods, and what happens when you put these ordinary, flawed, messy, and often traumatized people in these extraordinary situations and things still play out with a lot of the same beats, just with much larger stakes. It's hard to relate to the protagonists in Batman vs. Superman because they consist of a billionaire, an extraterrestrial alien, and a literal demigoddess. Here though, you have people trying to reconcile their shady pasts with their desires for redemption, people processing grief, abuse, and other traumas and damaging themselves and the people around them in the process without meaning to, people trying to swallow the harsh pill of the negative impacts their actions had, even if those actions may have been what they thought was the right thing in the moment. How even if you do the right thing, you can still absolutely screw up and it does not absolve you of those consequences. Another thing we discussed with both of us being queer and therefore part of a marginalized group, is the all too real message of how even if you are "granted" peace by the powers-that-be, that peace can be absolutely destroyed if the wrong people get ahold of any sort of power and are given half an excuse. *coughpalestinecough* ... sorry this crazy Seattle weather is messing with my sinuses I guess. They will use the well-publicized actions of a few as a reason to destroy an entire group/nation of people *coughfreegazacough* ... man these seasonal allergies are rough. It's why the queer community has such a contentious relationship with the police and why them being part of Pride celebrations is so controversial: they may "protect" us now, but the moment the wrong person/people get power and deem us illegal, they will absolutely turn on us. Their job isn't to protect us or to uphold morality, it's to uphold the law and if the law says we're wrong, we become targets. And while Scott going off did seem a bit odd, I don't think it was just a case of reverse engineering to get to a specific plot point, I also think there was a statement being made. How marginalized groups, especially queer people and PoC, can't just be "normal". We have to go above and beyond to be "model minorities" to get even a fraction of the respect that others do just by existing. And we're STILL treated like p*d*s and gangsters and criminals and thugs. Trying to play into the desires and expectations of the dominant power just to prove yourself is a game you can't win. Also also, HEY CIS STRAIGHT DUDES, PAY ATTENTION TO HOW GAMBIT HANDLES ROGUE'S REJECTION. He is obviously angry and hurt and frustrated and he DOES call Rogue out on her dishonesty and how he went out of his way to meet her expectations and respect her wishes for it all to seemingly amount to nothing, but at the same time, he respects her decision and never makes his personal pain her issue. He still agrees to remain friends as he would still rather have her in his life because he does love her as a person, not just a romantic/sexual interest and he leaves it at that. He doesn't pressure her to change her mind, he doesn't threaten her or get creepily aggressive. He expresses his frustrations, calls out some of her dubious behaviors, but ultimately gives her the decency she deserves as a person who is making a difficult decision, even if he doesn't like what that decision is.

[@RainCityWhispers]

*snaps out of my trance and looks back up at my post* Welp... I ADHD'd all over this comment section.....

[@LiableFilm]

I was crying through the credits and after they were done.

[@HDimagination]

Scott, Jean and Logan was NEVER interesting as a love triangle. As a polycule however...

[@davidblyth6886]

Poly still ain't interesting

[@OldManFerdiad]

@@treesoul00 I feel like this is riffing/referencing the psychic affair Scott and Emma Frost have during Grant Morrison's run on New X-Men just as the whole episode is a retelling of E for Extinction

[@nailinthefashion]

HOWEVER AND IN THIS ESSAY I WILL!!!

[@nailinthefashion]

@@davidblyth6886polyamory isn’t interesting. Polyamory amongst super powered individuals and especially telepaths INCREDIBLY interesting at least to me

[@MrFtpforlife]

@@OldManFerdiadI agree & I prefer this over the Emma storyline in the comics & I never go against comic continuity lol that’s how I knew this show wasn’t a fluke

[@sephirothii13]

it was such a powerful episode, I like how they were able to bring both plots back. When Beast says "Oh My" and then Rogue saying "Sugar I can't feel you" I was a bloody mess. I did enjoy the interview vs Jean talking and how well that intercut worked. I did also like the line from Jean to Logan about how old he is. it was really good... I hope they continue to not be afraid to do things like this.

[@pious83]

I was really getting into this episode and then when they showed the silhouette of the Mega-Sentinel, my jaw dropped. I thought no, they can't be adapting that. They did and my mouth was agape throughout the whole thing. The Genoshan massacre in E is For Extinction was already a powerful, iconic scene on the page. To see it animated, really hits home.

[@OldManFerdiad]

I'd been lulled into thinking they were doing a riff on the modern Hellfire Galas, then actually shouted 'oh shit, they're doing E for Extinction' at the screen when I realised. Honestly I now have a lot of faith that this production team knows it's X-stuff and just want to see where they take us next.

[@pious83]

@@OldManFerdiad There has long been a fan theory as to would the X-Men have made a difference if they were present in Genosha when the Mega-Sentinels arrived. I think '97 just gave an answer.

[@Trikeboy2]

If you paid attention to the sky when the fireworks started, you would have seen The Watcher. That was the clue that something massively bad was about to happen. Also, props to Wolverine for not taking his shot when Jean kissed him. He could have had what he wanted but knew it would have been wrong given her head space.

[@wolf_ceit_witch]

Tore my freaking heart out. When she said that she could feel him, was like Storm saying she couldn't feel the weather any more. I love Rouge I always have. I have a feeling that because of Cable's involvement that Gambit will be back, because in the original, they all died with grave markers. Remmber also Gambit could be an Omega level mutant and near immortal. Let's not count him out yet, even if Rouge can touch him. He may just need to recharge.

[@BreakRoomofGeeks]

Honestly, if they bring him back after such a good send off I'll be annoyed.

[@nancyjay790]

There is a comic book storyline that could bring Gambit back and still hurt like hell.

[@thegladve]

@@BreakRoomofGeeks if they rush to bring him back that would be annoying, if they play it smart and allow us to feel his absence like the death of superman storyline did that would be at least for me an acceptable outcome since I'll be honest I hardly remember anything plot wise from the original cartoon but I do remember liking Gambit and Rogue enough as characters and a will they won't they couple to return to the show every other day on Fox Kids.

[@FantasyFinalFiend]

@@BreakRoomofGeeksthis is the X-Men though, no one ever really stays dead long

[@FantasyFinalFiend]

@@nancyjay790you mean him as a horseman? I’d love to see that animated

[@JohnBainbridge0]

One of the best episodes of any series I've seen in a long time.

[@alexissandren1884]

I would say that X-Men 97 just got it's own Red Wedding.

[@epaul525]

The fact that none of us went “Hey the Watcher is watching this one. Wait, how often does he watch the stories with happy endings” tells you how engrossed we all were.

[@evaserration6223]

It's no coincidence that one of the stories from the previous episode ended with a character being told it's time for them to grow up. We've been reminded we are not kids anymore. And I dunno about you witnessing an oppressed population of small country (small number of which are dangerous) being systematically wiped out hits a little harder these days.

[@saphcal]

yeah....

[@saphcal]

This episode was INTENSE. I was not expecting it to be so HEAVY and emotional. This was special. Loved it.

[@bengraven]

What kills me about that final scene is that this is the voice of Rogue from our childhood. it’s the actress from the original series, the Capcom games, a voice we heard every Saturday morning. And hearing that voice with real pain in her tone, killed me. It’s like hearing your heroes cry. And finding out that the actress had a niece who passed away a few weeks before she filmed that really hit even harder.

[@Nejvyn]

I got the "something bad is gonna happen"-vibe from the beginning, but boy-o-boy I couldn't have seen this coming. The ballroom scene was so aethereal and stunning and then ... Well. I was crying from "Hab keine Angst" straight to the credits.

[@citrinedragonfly]

I cried for this as well. Because oh my gosh, they did THE THING. The episode as a whole was spectacular. Kudos to the animators and in-betweeners and voice actors and sound designers and literally EVERYONE who made this episode and this series, because this was glorious in its execution (no pun intended). I do wonder if this means a certain comic book villain is going to be revealed as being behind the master mold/mother mold attack. What really got me was seeing so many cameos of characters I loved or remembered from the comics - Pixie! SquidBoy! Herman! - and then seeing them terrified, and in some cases dying (Sammy Pare, you deserved better). The tears started when the light left Callisto's eye. That slight shift in the animation made me lose it. And then both Gambit and Magneto, with Rogue's clear heartache for both, and her final line at the end of the episode.... I'm hoping that Val Cooper's presence there, seeing the devastation firsthand, will have ramifications through the series, too. This series needs at least two more seasons for all the stories it could spin out of just this one episode.

[@phoenixrage1]

And on top of all the other trauma, "I can't feel you" took me right back to WandaVision, so THAT pain was dumped on top of the X-Men pain 🤣

[@mxmadifae]

Rogue repeating “I can’t feel/touch you Sugar…” is what destroyed me in the best way, thx for highlighting those lines 17:40

[@AceOThorns]

I've never been a fan of Gambit, so the relationship with Rogue was never a big deal for me. Despite all that, that last moment managed to touch me. Powerful stuff I hope they build on without diminishing this episode.

[@nancyjay790]

How can you not feel for a man who wears pink, bares his abs, makes beignets from scratch, and had his heart on his sleeve? Okay, just me.

[@OldManFerdiad]

@@nancyjay790 to paraphrase Jay Edidin, how can you not love someone so confident in his thief skills that he wears bright pink armour, metal boots and fingerless gloves?

[@NSzymszym]

It still gets me and makes me cry thinking about it as well. This was so powerful and my favourite X-Men adaption ever. No other animated episode comes close, no movie has managed to capture the spirit of the X-Men as good as this. Even the good ones were still way too coy and/ or cynical to embrace what the mutants are and what makes people love them so much. This episode did all that - while delivering breathtaking animation and action, nonetheless. Sometimes one may tend to forget that things can actually be this good when the people who make it actually care.

[@SpedeVesku]

I have my nerdy continuity nitpicks in regards to the way Nightcrawler was written here (the more usual fun-loving version) vs. the original series (fairly serious monk) and Rogue's age when she was dating Magneto, but overall... Darn, definitely the wham episode and I was not expecting this show to get me close to tears. Plus, while the soundtrack by The Newton Brothers has been great since the first episode, they were really giving their all during this one. If they can keep this quality up, this might just surpass both Spectacular Spider-Man and Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes as my favorite Marvel animated show, and I'm not saying that lightly.

[@PadraigG8]

I think Kurt was probably a little bit giddy from being in a mutant utopia where he didn't have to worry about angry mobs coming after him.

[@literaltruth]

For me I can justify the Rogue age thing with the fact that Magneto was very definitively evil at the time.

[@antrmar1]

On a slightly pessimistic note. Some of members of our community have suggested, idealistically, that we should get out own nation and all could be better. But, I just think about some people out there that would like all of us in one location, so they can do something similar.

[@pious83]

That's why the allegory of the Mutants is so profound.

[@ChaosqueenMaddy]

Spoilers: I dont know why but Erik's last words being "Don't be afraid" in his native German hit me pretty damn hard

[@superkid801]

What an episode! I was in shock after I finished it! The relationships were very interesting, I feel for Rogue at the end! Nightcrawler I met the guy who voiced him at a con, so happy seeing him! This was a great episode to watch!

[@saphcal]

he was great (nightcrawler)

[@thebitterfig9903]

The moment that breaks me: when Callisto’s eye dims as her dead body has been lain out.

[@Azure-Star]

I don't blame you for crying. I almost did. Poor Rogue lost both of them. And we're probably getting Cassandra Nova, which is very bad.

[@pious83]

I think they are bypassing Cassandra Nova. Which is easy to do, given Xavier is not present for this series.

[@Azure-Star]

@@pious83 Well she's showing up in Deadpool 3, so it could be a tie in.

[@pious83]

@@Azure-Star Extremely doubtful. In terms of timescale this show would have been well underway before Deadpool 3 was even announced. The rumour is Bastion is the main villain. Which makes more sense than a character that has zero context or purpose without Xavier.

[@Azure-Star]

@@pious83 Oh, okay.

[@sigyn3976]

Good to know I wasn't the only one crying at the end of this one. I was absolutely gutted by Remy's death.

[@PatheticApathetic]

Gambit has always been my favorite X-Man (once I grew out of the Wolverine obsession), and this episode is a perfect example of literally every reason why

[@jamesspires7092]

You reminded me of the scene, and now I'm crying again.

[@TheCyberQuaker]

I'm surprised you didn't mention this brilliant exchange: "Most nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader" "Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists"

[@solvseus]

Before: can't wait to watch the next ep, loving it so far! After: 🥺

[@draco_nyxieX]

I cried quite abit too it was so super emotional Especially gambits death that was powerful

[@keyblademasterclark]

My jaw dropped when I saw how much death and destruction that Sentinel caused.

[@Bloodyshadow1]

I think what works for me in the gambit situation, is that like in one of your babylon 5 reviews with Jessie, you talk about how when Sheridan is angry with delenn, he is angry but not mean. And I think that's what works with Remy. He's clearly hurt and angry, but he isnt' mean, even when he tells Rouge Magneto will break her heart, it doesn't feel like he's trying to hurt her, just stating what he feels is the truth to the woman he loves. He doesn't lash out or insult her, he just lets her know how angry and hurt he is and then lets her know how much he still cares by telling her that he'll just be her friend from now on.

[@trapsaltnburn]

Gambit has always been my favorite character. Always. I started taking French because of him, for goodness sake. And having said that, I really, really want his death to stick. There's been some online speculation whether or not some time traveling stuff might undo it because of Cable's appearance. But I hope it sticks, because it's so, so powerful. And I absolutely love that the line they send him out on is a callback to the original series. I'm gutted, but like you said, it's a good pain.

[@DuskyPredator]

Same on Kurt being a favourite. I was actually trying to figure out the other day why I like Kurt Wagner so much, and I think I figured it out. He is the kind of mutant that others are going to judge based on his looks, but he defies thise expectations. Kurt should be the poster child of hating himself and the world based on who he is, but he doesn't let him down and is a fun and hopeful person. At his best, he has overcome shame in how others see him, and feels like he just loves. Similarly, Mystique great that she could choose to look like anyone, but chooses to look like herself. I think I connected in some way as a non-binary person long before I was aware of why I felt certain ways.

[@gozerthegozarian9500]

I hear you on the trope-y nonsense, because the Scott/Jean/Logan love triangle is just Wuthering Heights copy-pasted into X-Men comics.

[@pious83]

But it has never been interesting. Logan and Jean only worked in AoA. Meanwhile honestly, I thought Scott and Emma were always a much more believable couple than Scott and Jean.

[@gozerthegozarian9500]

@@pious83 Agreed!

[@TAScottElstone]

Nice review. I found your perspectives on the relationships very interesting..

[@blackshard641]

They actually did name the position. They said they would prefer to call the role "Chancellor".

[@lucascecilio658]

Love your videos, just a small footnote: it's not double lenght, it's just that most 97 episodes are half an hour. You just have been under the assumption they've been 20min long because that's how the old cartoon was and haven't noticed (yet) they are a bit longer

[@BreakRoomofGeeks]

I just checked and it's 37 minutes vs. 30-33 up to this point. You're right, it's not double length, but it is still longer than any previous episode.

[@OldManFerdiad]

@@BreakRoomofGeeks it feels epic though, right? I checked too as I felt like there was going to be a cliff hanger when the super sentinel showed up but it just kept going. And you're not the only one who teared up.

[@Rmlohner]

Rewatching the original show when it was first put on Disney+, it really hit me that its portrayal of Gambit is by far the worst aged part of it. The way he's constantly trying to get women to kiss him gets intensely uncomfortable, and even weirdly has the effect of making the first season's teasing him turning evil a lot more plausible than I found it as a kid. So just the way this half-season was able to fix that and make me as emotional as I was at his death is a major accomplishment.

[@TimothyCollins]

PS - the age gap between Magneto and Rogue doesn't bother me. What DOES bother me is.. This episode found a way to make that maybe a bit more yucky. "My mother introduced me to him and he seemed like a nice man." - if your mother introduces you to an older man (That she is also involved with) and it's phrased like a 12 year old girl meeting him (As that phrasing makes it almost sound like) then... yeah, that was kinda yucky. Thankfully the show kinda resolved that with some finality pretty quickly. Still wasn't all that great but I have serious doubts that storyline could have been handled much better since it was inherently a problem either way.

[@Steef_Lee]

I think Scott said exactly what Scott would say. He let his true feelings slip and those are his true feelings.

[@jamesjackson8292]

With the rest of life death happening next week it's two weeks until we see any fallout of what happens and people are stuck stewing on the events or this episode.

[@leftoflibra]

I’m not crying you’re crying 😭

[@Calliborc]

I understood the reasoning beyond Cyclops' reaction and all that but, due to my general goofiness, I couldn't help but imagine the answer to the reporter asking why he lied about his son as: "Because this is a half hour interview and we're gonna need a loooooooooooot more than half an hour to cover everything.". For the record, I don't think there was an actual amount of time mentioned for the interview

[@OldManFerdiad]

Props to ep3 for seriously streamlining the Jean/Maddie story, or poor Scott would still be trying to explain... (don't get me wrong, I grew up on the original and it is great but a super-confusing mess sometimes).

[@Tuaron]

Before I jump into the proper reaction (which'll be spoiler-y, but avoiding too much detail), I will say the episode wasn't really longer than the others - it was only a total of 37-ish minutes (including all the "previously on" and credits), whereas most of the others clocked in around 30+. They've definitely taken advantage of the streaming vs. network situation to give packed episodes, not needing to cut it to the network standard 22-25 or stretch it out over multiple episodes, and they really could have for most of the ones we've seen. I can't remember the last time a cartoon made me cry (though thinking about it, it was probably the final stretch of The Owl House episodes), but I was welling up during this episode. I was terrified for some of my favourites (Kurt! Gambit! Magneto! Rogue!) and really did mourn those lost for a moment. I never did read the Grant Morrison storyline where Genosha was destroyed (it's on my list, I swear) but I've read a lot of the X line since, particularly Krakoa, and the Genosha Mutant Massacre weighs heavily at times, so I had an idea of what to expect. Giving us a Krakoa-esque Council & (Hellfire?) gala really hammered home some of the pain home for me (also, Magneto's death reminded me of his recent death during AXE, which capped a period where I really loved the character), as I still mourn the loss of that era of comics, but also everything else leading up to it already played so much with my emotions. Also, it was nice to see all the little cameos (Glob Herman! Pixie! Nature Girl! Boom Boom! Exodus! Dazzler! Others I'm forgetting!) and the very anime-influenced art style was in top form (looking more anime than ever, too). Oh, and the symbolism of people (I believe all/mostly mutants) being crushed under a Xavier statue amid Magneto's fight with the Sentinel...oh my. The Scott & Jean (and entire mansion/interviews) side of things was by far the weakest part of the episode, but it was at least passable - certain things felt too rushed/brisk, but it worked enough and Scott's blowup on the reporter definitely works for setting up a more radical Cyke in the future (I did kind of like the "Cyke becomes the new Magneto" storyline in the comics) even if I think a little more might've been needed to push him there (would've especially made sense if that happened at the end). The Jean/Scott/Madelyne thing feels like it has pulled parts of the Jean/Scott/Emma story, which is interesting and makes me a little concerned (I do like later Emma and worry that might suffer). I didn't have high hopes/expectations for this show when it was announced (I've gotten cynical about nostalgia bait, I guess), but this show has blown me away consistently, I'm glad we got it. Even if we never get another season, I'll be happy.

[@MalzraAirwynn]

I know this storyline is adapted from the comics. But part of me likes to imagine the writers were like 'okay we did 5 seasons of the old show not being able to say die or kill, and having to draw people jumping out of plans and tanks and cars before they get destroyed, and couldn't even explicitly kill Charles in the finale even though his final scene with the X-Men was clearly meant to be a tearful deathbed farewell, and instead have him sent off with aliens. Time to make up for lost time with our body count.'

[@savannahkrystall2698]

I feel like they broke these episodes up to really let the weight of events sink in. Everyone was floored by this and they’ve effectively given us a break until we get to see the fallout of this tragedy.

[@yogisie]

It was a typical episode, then the last ten minutes was WOW

[@saveversus]

I felt like the Mojo stuff was for us, like, "Remember this 90s stuff? Ok, now grow up." Then episode 5 knew kids weren't watching this and just went full adult with everything.

[@Faction.Paradox]

This is a "Wham episode" if I've ever seen one

[@saphcal]

No, they played "Ace of Base", not "Wham" in the episode :P

[@theshadowdirector]

I think Rogue, at least in mind, is more mature than she looks, possibly because of her absorbing the life experiences of Ms Marvel (Carol Damvers during this era). Though they don't clarify that here either. These kind of age gap relationships get even more complicated when you mix in the fantastical elements that make then hard to compare to real life. Invincible season session 2 also has examples of that.

[@RyanofPower]

I feel I see a big shiny time travel shaped reset button on its way as so far they have Charles, magneto and gambit dead and storm with no powers. But I'm fine if they end up resetting as while that can sometimes be cheap this journey there is looking to be worth it. This series is fantastic so far and you can tell it's being made by people who grew up loving the earlier show

[@HotDogTimeMachine385]

Wow. Just... wow. I'm so used to this show fixing bad futures with time travel like the Sentinel bad future and the Apocalypse bad future, but this hit... wow.

[@xHx23x]

I am still crying about it.

[@Polycomical]

Yeah made the mistake of watching this in the middle of the day. Going to sound weird but it was like after I saw Munich at the cinema, it really stayed with me after I saw it, so powerful.

[@shika15]

5:30 same! Not one day in my life…

[@bobmathis-friedman6742]

It's been over a day, and I'm still reeling...

[@lanalan4157]

Best TV episode ever

[@Moonbeam143]

This made me cry, too.

[@theshadowdirector]

Although I expect Gambit's death to be reversed, it's one of those situations where they sell June moment so effectively, I don't mind and it still ducks me in. It's similar to Spider-Mam being snapped in Avengers: Infinity War.

[@Gh0stbumbles]

this episode wasn't a double length. it was the standard 25 30 min run time. Episode 4 was just 2 mini episodes in one 25 to 30 min episode.

[@TheMommakitkat]

Total gut punch. Really got me.

[@jmsbnd]

It was the apple scene if that scene didn't exist we would have seen it coming.

[@Melaniy-un3kr]

Regular breathing should resume shortly

[@MsBryant33]

That episode went hard.

[@davidmacfarlane1763]

To be honest, Logan-Scott-Jean is kind of the beginning of the troupe in the comics.

[@mandelharvey3429]

Maybe Emma frost knew cyclops situation and gave him a nudge in the interview.

[@HotDogTimeMachine385]

Gambit died not knowing Rogue chose him over Magneto.

[@NextToToddliness]

As an X-Men Purist, I was at first upset that they screwed the continuity up, but then I had to keep reminding myself that the original animated series from the 90's did the same thing all the time. The attack on Genosha in the New X-Men run was one of the first times in my long history with the property where I truly felt the loss and devastation that these characters felt. You saw just how far and ugly prejudice and malice can go. The New X-Men is still one of my favorite runs of the X-Men comics, and what Grant Morrison did for the series was monumental. I preferred the elegance of his delivery, but that's sadly not possible in a cartoon that's 20-35 minutes long. That all being said, I'm a wee bit annoyed that instead "Killing their Darlings", every death we see in this episode will be undone with time-travel shenanigans. That thought makes the loses not feel like actual loses, which for me, lowers it in comparison to the comics. Grant Morrison had the cajones to put perfect couple Scott & Jean into complex marital issues, due to Scott Summers having a psychic love affair with the White Queen. He had the guts to kill off powerful and meaningful characters, while also introducing so many new and original characters. He set the stage for the House of M, and all the consequences of that event. He really changed the X-Men franchise for the better, especially by giving the characters real stakes. I'm still going to watch the heck out of this series.

[@pious83]

X-Men TAS was only ever beholden to it's own continuity and no other source. That is one of it's strengths. To be fair there hasn't been a single cartoon or movie for the X-Men that has slavishly followed comic book canon. So I don't know why you would expect it at all?

[@NextToToddliness]

@@pious83 Which, is why the comics often do it better. I was a kid when this cartoon first aired, so I'm well aware that it never kept the continuity. It was mostly just annoyance that they superficially put in things that were done better, and included characters that are huge parts of better story lines, like Blob Herman or Pixie. It's so vapid compared to what they're emulating. Yet, people are acting like it's the greatest thing to happen to the X-Men, which is a joke. "Oh right, you were there." No sh*t Jean, Wolverine was definitely there.

[@pious83]

@@NextToToddliness It's not about "better". It's about adaptation. For example, TAS version of Days of Future Past was more interesting than it's source material. Meanwhile, Time Fugitives clearly impressed Marvel. Which is why they adapted that story into the comics around the time of Second Coming. This adaptation is a strong episode, within the context and framework of this series. If you don't get that, the "joke" is on you.

[@NextToToddliness]

@@pious83 The adaptation was terrible, so you're absolutely right. The set-up was non-existent and the writing inconsistent. It's just bad writing. Just that line alone from Jean proves these writers don't trust their audience. If you prefer a subpar product that's you're prerogative. These images and storylines were better suited for comic book form. Adaptation is a hard, but not impossible, just look at the Lord of the Rings movies. They changed a lot, but they never sacrificed the strength of the source material. This show is for Gen-Z kids to fawn over an iteration of an iteration.

[@pious83]

@@NextToToddliness I see, you're trolling. The giveaway was "The set-up was non-existent". Because that is exactly what happened in E for Extinction. Also, the line from Jean ties into the conversation with Scott later, over Madelyne Pryor. It's not rocket science to understand such a leading statement isn't said at face value. If not and this spiel is somehow legit. If everyone else doesn't see this as "terrible" or "bad writing", maybe the problem doesn't lay with the show?

[@misterlau5246]

I didn't felt like crying, I was.... 😳 What... What? WHAT???? -The tenth doctor

[@tiagghho]

I cried too. Magneto is da goat

[@JusRaeDae]

I also cried.

[@junocrespo1774]

Jean, Scott and Logan are in a throuple lol

[@LydiaTarine12]

Does anyone know what Magneto said in German toward the end?

[@iconpepelepew7925]

Do not be afraid

[@MrDpool1]

They seem to be going in both an unadapted Chris Claremont way and a Grant Morrison way as this episode adapts E is for Extinction and the prior one hints at Fall of the Mutants. If it goes down the latter route, it will be sad but less impactful. If it continues going down the Grant Morrison route, the 3 episode finale is likely to leave people flabbergasted, very sad, and horrified because he’s the Doom Patrol guy.

[@nekusakura6748]

2 Things: 1. Grant Morrison is Genderqueer and uses They/Them pronouns. 2. Doom Patrol is not the Only Morrison is known for ('All Star Superman' and the Late 90s JLA run also come to mind)

[@MrDpool1]

@@nekusakura6748 I did not know about Grant Morrison’s pronouns. I haven’t read the JLA thing (Rock of Ages?) but do remember reading All-Star Superman. I went straight to Doom Patrol because that feels like the closest analogue to Morrison’s X-Men run; to say nothing of the…coincidental history of X-Men and Doom Patrol going back to 1963. In any case, they’ve done LifeDeath and the X-Men bit of Fall of the Mutants doesn’t seem likely since The Adversary wasn’t quite the big bad from the comics. Planet X in some form?

[@nekusakura6748]

@@MrDpool1 Morrison's JLA run was a massive influence on the DCAU version of the Justice League

[@MrDpool1]

@@nekusakura6748 I'm just glad that the last few years have given us more adaptations than just a series of video games loosely based on Arkham Asylum. Also the DCAU is definitive. RIP Kevin Conroy.

[@MrDpool1]

@@nekusakura6748 Incidentally, the way I and seemingly most people feel about Kevin Conroy's and Mark Hamill's Batman and Joker is the way that I feel about David Hemblen's Magneto from X-Men '92.

[@AdderMoray]

They broke it up because there needed to a breather and time needed to pass between episode 3 and this one

[@willbeaty6892]

They actually do mention that Magneto's position would be "Chancellor."

[@jaredg9159]

I cried so hard. I knew the show would be good but not this good.

[@DanielDiaz-um1xd]

The minor (?) theme tune only drove the dagger in harder at the end

[@robertjackson3552]

The only characters who stay dead in comic books are Uncle Ben, (Bucky & Jason Todd no longer apply)

[@BreakRoomofGeeks]

Uncle Ben, and the Waynes (only because them staying dead is too foundational to the heroes involved).

[@robertjackson3552]

@@BreakRoomofGeeks we have had alive in other earths but not back from the death just not killed.

[@nancyjay790]

I always felt that whenever Logan was brought in to seemingly push between Scott and Jean is annoying because it's always making Scott the wimp. I also kind of feel Jean is being unfair to Scott. He's had a baby with a clone of his first love, and he only found out the clone wasn't Jean not that long ago. She should understand his confusion and pain. I know it's more complicated than that, but... it's unfair for her to blame him as harshly as she does, especially when she's had at least one psychic connection with Logan who she also kissed.

[@OldManFerdiad]

This series is portraying all the characters better than the 92 series. I'm a bit older so I came to the series when I was at University and had been reading the comics for years and didn't like how nerfed Jean and Storm were and what a stuffed shirt Scott was. That said, because of editorial fiat Scott up and leaves Maddie with their newborn son as soon as Jean is resurrected in the comics, so he does come off as a terrible person (not to mention completely out of character).

[@AdderMoray]

"That doesn't feel like what he'd say." My friend, you've not followed X-men comics in the last 20-ish years, have you?

[@BreakRoomofGeeks]

Let me rephrase: "That doesn't feel like what THIS Scott would say at THIS point."

[@AdderMoray]

I getcha. Show's gotta run on a condensed timeline, though, even with 3 seasons greenlit, that's only 30 episodes distributed across an ensemble cast. Can't have 90s Animated Series Cyke flip over into Rightclops in season 2 without seeding that that's all boiling right under the surface.

[@literaltruth]

@@BreakRoomofGeeks I think you have to take that in context of the fact that THIS Scot at THIS point is only a month away from what, from his point of view, was the death of his son and the discovery that he had been in a relationship with a clone of his wife without his knowledge and that it was all caused by Mister Sinister - a human whose entire thing is that he's a non-Mutant who has used mutants as experiments and grafted their powers onto himself. He almost risked missing his son's birth because he was trying to hold of a marauding band of 1/6 style anti mutant racists and when he got to the hospital the human doctor refused to assist in the delivery of the son who died. Oh, and when he was gone, one of his closest friends has left because she was shot by one of anti-mutant rioters. He's also less than a year away from his mentor having been killed by a human anti-mutant extremist. And then there's this lady in his house who, well meaning as she is, is basically doing a story on "Mutants: do they actually deserve basic human rights? Let's see what their argument in favour of that is..." and she brings up his dead son who, again, was killed by a human who treated mutants like guinnea pigs and the doctor who refused his wife in labour assistance. I kinda feel Scott's current anger towards humans is very in keeping with everything that's been going on in his life up until now nd the fact that he's deep in grief (remember he doesn't know that Cable is Nathan, for all he knows he will never see his son again).

[@BloodyMary74]

Why cant Rouge just use a power switching off collar?

[@docweidner]

I worry they will cheapen this with time travel/alternate universe/dream shenanigans. Bit yeah, this was up there with Iron Giant and Mask of the Phantasm for auperhero cartoons that brought tears to my eyes.

[@damnrapunzel8130]

Well, Cable was briefly in the episode trying to warn people... Sooo

[@mariodpgodoy]

Nah, I got pissed by the way Rogue treated Gambit. Jerk move kissing Magneto in front of him.

[@Bloodyshadow1]

honestly, the scott, Jean, Logan love triangle is the most boring part of this show to me, it's the most boring part of X-men and every adaption I've seen in the last 30 years. None of the relationships between them are interesting enough to me to care about at all. Honestly the most interesting relationship between the 3 to me are between scott and logan when Jean died and they sort of form a warrior's bond/friendship

[@literaltruth]

In the comics they eventually have them get over it and they have three houses - Logan on one side, Jean in the middle, Scott on the other side and they basically just have a polycule that sometimes Emma Frost is also part of. IMO the best way the could have resolved that whole thing - they get over all the love triangle bullshit and decide maybe things would be easier if they weren't all so caught up on being monogamous.

[@Bloodyshadow1]

@@literaltruth honestly, while I think forming a polycule tends to be my preferred way to resolve a love triangle, for these three it's kind of meh for me. I don't have a strong attatchment to Jean as a character (outside of evolution) so i don't really understand why Logan and Scott fight over her. And I prefer them both with different characters. I ship Scott with Emma more and Logan with Ororo more.

[@pious83]

@@literaltruth Hickman may have alluded to that. But every writer since Inferno has swept it under the rug. Cyclops referring to Jean once again as his wife. Wolverine has been entirely absent from an X-Men team for some time now.

[@literaltruth]

@@Bloodyshadow1 for me the main advantage of it is just that it's a way to stop with the love triangle stuff that they've been doing since the 80s

[@Bloodyshadow1]

@@literaltruth completely understand

[@Ultraslainmonkey]

It was only 4 minutes longer

[@dnightwalker]

I get that the Magneto and Rogue thing is a little iffy, but the way I see it is that no matter how old you are or what gender you identify as... but if Paul Hollywood tells you he wants to date you, you don't say no! I'm assuming something similar is going on here.