In Defense of the "Worst" Cy Young Winner

[@dmlfan928]

I still think Britton should have won. Not because he truly deserved it over a starter. But because it would have made all that much more insane that BUCK LEFT HIM IN THE DAMN BULLPEN if he had then later been named the Cy Young winner.

[@ryanrau6714]

No it should have went to JV.

[@SmoothCriminal12]

Nobody: Buck: IT WASN'T A SAVE SITUATION

[@jeffreymerlino4613]

I agree with you. he gave up 4 earned runs all season. era plus of 803. era 0.54. he was the best pitcher in the american league that year. (ended up finishing 4th as a reliever which hasn't happened since)

[@DixonCider954]

Profile pic checks out.

[@Ryguy76]

@@ryanrau6714I’m gonna disagree here. Eric Gagne won the cy young as a reliever in 2003 and gave up 11 runs during the regular season. Britton gave up 4. It was one of, if not, the best seasons by a closing pitcher in mlb history

[@blank_echos]

Great video Jolly. That 2014 Phil Hughes walks stat popped out to me. Turns out 2014 Phil Hughes has the best single season SO/W ratio for a single season in baseball history..thats insane

[@christosioannou9628]

As a Cleveland fan, thank you for giving that shoutout to Carl Willis. The work he does with pitchers is incredible

[@michaelbaucom4019]

Porcello was a solid number 3 or number 4 starter who ate up innings. He had a career year, and got rewarded. It happens

[@randyisjerry]

Agreed! The man deserves it!

[@krog21]

Exactly

[@ipeeejz4042]

All I feel is pain as a Tigers fan at this point

[@santumi2298]

same like holy shit 9 Cy Youngs and 8 rings

[@hectorcastle1187]

I had to rewind the video when I heard that insane rotation

[@calraymond7756]

@@hectorcastle1187don’t forget about Doug fister either, he was a very solid pitcher for us the couple years for the tigers

[@dominicwanzer2057]

punched your ticket yesterday tho and def have the AL CY this year. Things not lookin as bad!

[@jackthetight]

Fun footnote with this Cy Young race, the ERA champion Aaron Sanchez places 7th in Cy Young Voting. That makes him the lowest placing ERA champion since 2004 where Jake Peavy won the NL ERA title and didn't get a Cy Young Vote. Most of it probably has to do with the lower IP for both but still a fun little stat.

[@PatDK]

I remember Sanchez had a freak accident in an airplane where getting his bag out of the overhead carry on, somehow his fingers got crushed between his bag and another persons luggage that fell when he wedged free his own luggage…. I remember this because I was so annoyed by this after the year before he did something stupid also to hurt his throwing hand

[@Collinized]

My fondest memory of Porcello as a Red Sox was a complete game one hitter in 2018 against the Yankees. Should he have won the Cy Young probably not but he still had very good stuff

[@Thefrakenkraken]

I’m from New England and there’s a furniture store called Jordan’s furniture and they were running a promotion that year that if the Red Sox threw a new hitter everything you bought was free, we were so close to a free living room

[@SirVyvin]

Fun fact, I was at that game, and had no idea he threw a 1 hitter until after we left the ballpark and I seen it on ESPN🤣

[@Collinized]

@@Thefrakenkraken My family was getting ready to go buy a new couch at that point

[@Aidanbrennan03]

I’m pretty sure I watched that game. He only threw 80 something pitches also if I’m remembering correctly

[@StefanWB]

Jolly mentioned this, but if anyone cares, fWAR is much more favourable to Porcello in 2016 versus bWAR. fWAR uses FIP rather than ERA as the main component in pitching WAR, removing the defensive factor from the equation, and Porcello and Verlander had very similar FIPs in '16 - 3.40 for Porcello, 3.48 for Verlander. And their expected FIP or xFIP was very close too, although Verlander comes out slightly ahead. This means that FG gave Porcello 5.1 fWAR in 2016, and gave Verlander 5.4 fWAR. Porcello actually finished third on the leaderboard in 2016 among AL pitchers according to fWAR, behind Verlander and Chris Sale, and ahead of Corey Kluber who was fifth behind Jose Quintana. Porcello also had the lowest rate of home runs allowed per fly ball given up, which again might have been aided by the defensive prowess of his outfielders but it's still worth highlighting. It's a shame that a couple of terrible writers had such an outlandish impact on such a close race, and it does kinda suck that Porcello doesn't get the credit he deserves for the season he had. Sabermetrics loves on-base percentage, so shouldn't they be falling over themselves to tell you about Porcello's incredibly low walk rate? It's impossible for me to consider the possibility that actual writers were still using wins as a tie-breaker in Cy Young voting in the year of our lord two thousand and sixteen, but fortunately we were only a few years away from deGrom winning the award for seasons where his win totals were 10 and 11. Anyway, the real point of all of this is that the real travesty is the 2015 NL Cy Young race. I mean c'mon, Clayton Kershaw had a FIP of 1.99, and struck out 11.6 batters per 9 innings, and still didn't win the award? Absolute disgrace.

[@shoukatsukai]

In 2015, the wins stat was still looked at, so Kershaw's 16 wins weren't as sexy as Arrieta 22 and Greinke 19.

[@bmac4]

Pitcher WAR is already pretty dang janky as is.

[@schroederk9086]

Pitcher war is ass in general but pitcher fwar is terrible, fip is a peripheral and I personally think the only things that should matter for cy young is innings era and park factor

[@michealconnell7499]

@@shoukatsukainot necessarily. 2010 Felix Hernandez won it going 13-12

[@shoukatsukai]

@@michealconnell7499 Jacob Degrom didnt get unanimous Cy Young in 2018 because his win total was 10-9 when he was far and away the best pitcher in baseball that year. The voters still looked at wins until that year because the sole person who didnt vote for Degrom was ridiculed to oblivion.

[@jds614]

Beltre and vmart are also two brief red sox many forget ever played there

[@jeffriesurgen537]

Love to see Jolly making a video about the offices favorite baseball team! Maybe a 2018 Sox outfield video could be in place?

[@TheJustusLeague98]

0:44 “I’m upset” just had me rolling

[@komickaze85]

I remember when Rick won. He had a great year that year. As a Sox fan, I think he may not have deserved the Cy Young, but he got it!

[@crazycano18]

I won't ever forget his complete game in Anaheim in 2016. I remember seeing him come back out for the 9th and losing it because I was so happy to see him coming back out; something I knew would become more rare.

[@bigred22ize]

Ya gotta appreciate the raw passion and determination to cover the Cy Young race from ten years ago.

[@sleazye7638]

I remember before he came to the Sox I was amazed when he threw a no walk, no strikeout CGSO, something that hadn't happened since 1989

[@reggiegarcia07]

I shiver anytime I hear the name Porcello

[@the51geese38]

As a Red Sox it was great to see him win and even though he was really good I did not see him winning the award. I saw Kluber winning it.

[@Brz99988]

Agreed

[@remaracs6283]

As a Red Sox fan I watched almost every one of his starts that year. The Red Sox often got him a few runs and his job was to give them innings. He didn’t care about giving up some hits and a few runs but if he could avoid walks to keep him in the game and keep throwing, that would help the bullpen and give the team the best chance to win. He simply outpitched the other team’s pitcher. It was a transitional time in baseball (different balls, higher strike zone, more scrutiny for umps) and he def capitalized on it, for 1 year at least

[@t.o.double9497]

Wow a Phil Hughes and Brandon Webb reference in the same video! NICE!!!

[@dillpi8866]

the craziest part of this video was hearing 2016 was 8 years ago

[@jethrojacinto2798]

2010 Adrian Beltre would like a word 1:32

[@braxton3556]

You made a great argument for why Rick Porcello deserved to be a Cy Young candidate but not for him winning it. No one ever said he didn’t have a great year, they just don’t think he had the best year in the league. You never really explained why the Cy Young should’ve gone to him over Verlander. Plus no one is, or at least should be, upset at Porcello for winning, they’re upset at the writers.

[@landongetreu3270]

With u mentioning Cespedes and how good he was with the Red Sox i kinda want a video on him. 2x derby champ, traded a lot in 2 years and then suddenly disappeared. And he was a Met 🤷‍♂️

[@david_donovan]

People quibbling about “small differences in awards” and “award robberies” is a fair enough complaint until you look at Bedrosian’s win in 1987, Vuckovich in 1982, and Hernandez in 1984 (who also won MVP and robbed us from a 10 WAR Ripken winning MVP).

[@garrettthemoviemann4686]

Votto vs Stanton 2017 MVP race would be a great video

[@KewlBrettC]

Thanks Jolly for another good one.

[@haloduck0533]

I understand why the win stat isn’t as influential nowadays in determining how good a pitcher is, but I have to say that there is value in saying that when a pitcher takes the mound that his team usually wins. I feel like there is value in knowing that your team wins when this guy pitches even if his other stats aren’t at the top of the league.

[@pathutchison7688]

Different sport, but look at the NFL defensive player of the year award this year. They gave it to Myles Garrett, despite the fact that TJ Watt was better in every way, including in every single stat category. Ridiculous.

[@Frysinger18]

This video has the vibe of the Making The Case series by Clayton Crowley on KZbin. I'd love to see something like that for the MLB.

[@jakeybball]

My mind immediately goes to 2000 NL MVP. Helton had .7 more WAR than any other player in the NL, lead baseball in almost every offensive stat while playing very solid defense yet was still 5th in NL MVP votes.

[@pathutchison7688]

He didn’t vote for himself. He should be proud. Great video

[@TheTEN24]

I have to agree looking back on things now his stats seem way better than I remembered I think a huge issue is it was truly a career year

[@astralflick]

I think Porcello winning was completely valid but I also acknowledge that when your lineup is Betts Pedroia Ortiz Ramirez Bogaerts Shaw Benintendi Bradley Vasquez You should probably win a lot of games

[@pikapal91]

I knew I loved Mr. Olive for a reason. He’s a short king like me

[@ILoveMisty1985]

I wonder how much of the vitriol regarding this race was over the fact that Porcello was quite mediocre in the years after 2016: 43-43 with a 4.87 ERA (93 ERA+) including a brutal 1-7 record and 5.64 ERA (76 ERA+) in that final 2020 season (even though his FIP was 3.33) and he never pitched in the Majors again.

[@jonahprate8192]

We sox fans rejoice everywhere. Appreciate this even though i also think JV was the “correct” choice

[@DetroitSportsFanSince2002]

As a Tigers fan I liked Rick Porcello but when he won the AL Cy Young over Justin Verlander that was funny as heck

[@cpa3694]

It wasn't just wins that helped Porcello. I believe the Red Sox led the league in runs per game (I wanna say it was something crazy like 7 runs per start) in his starts, meaning he wasn't actually pitching high stress innings for much of the time. It's nice to try and look back at these moments and try to justify the robbery or in this case, the win, but I think there's very little evidence to back Porcello's win, especially considering the wonky voting with the Tampa voters. Verlander has a much stronger case across the board, and I think one could even make as strong a case for Britton as Porcello.

[@yungshatter6671]

Matt kemp is still my #1 biggest robbery

[@johnmatthew8710]

@yungshatter6671 If you thought that was bad, check out how much better 1995 AL MVP runner-up Albert Belle's numbers were compared to that year's winner Mo Vaughn.

[@shoukatsukai]

@@johnmatthew8710 Honestly 1996 was worse. JuanGon winning over literally everyone else

[@johnmatthew8710]

@@shoukatsukai Agree to disagree. The writers who vote so obviously punishing Belle in '95 because of his attitude/personality/reputation when his stats were head and shoulders above Mo Vaughn in EVERY offensive category (have you compared their numbers from that year?) is the biggest travesty I've ever witnessed related to the award.

[@shoukatsukai]

@@johnmatthew8710 Its crazy you mention that because thats exactly what happened to Belle in 1996 too. Its just that this time, A-Rod and Junior were the better than Belle that year, yet all 3 of them were snubbed by JuanGon, who by all means had a worse campaign than 1995 Mo Vaughn.

[@johnmatthew8710]

@@shoukatsukai I see your point now that I've taken a more in-depth look at the 1996 AL MVP finalist information. I know there are people who view WAR as being a flawed statistic, but the fact that Juan Gonzalez won the award with 3.8 WAR when runner-up A-Rod was at 9.4, and Griffey Jr.'s 9.7 WAR was somehow only enough to finish in fourth place is pretty incredible. I guess it goes to show the value placed on power numbers (except for when a guy they have a grudge against like Belle hit 100+ extra base hits in '95), when Gonzalez's 11 more home runs and 19 more RBIs win out over A-Rod's 44 point higher batting average, and much higher defensive/all-around value (Gonzalez was likely also on PEDs at the time). 2000 was another season where I believe they got it wrong in choosing PED abusing Giambi over Frank Thomas.

[@Cheesefist]

Next award robbery is Paul Skenes stealing Merrill’s well deserved ROTY. Calling it now

[@RSanchez111]

Cry more

[@ihatetheantichrist9545]

Skenes deserves the award over Merrill who isn’t even the best rookie hitter in his own division

[@T_K7]

_Wait this isn't a video about Steve Bedrosian_ tbh this video title is better than the old one. Good vid btw

[@astralflick]

I feel like the fact that he did this at fenway is understated. Burnes winning over Wheeler was way more egregious.

[@ygf377]

Completely agree. Still think verlander was the best pitcher that year and I hate it when the guy who had the most 1st place votes doesn't win an award but just because he had 22 wins Porcello had to be a bad cy young winner

[@Linky]

Mets legend, Rick Porcello.

[@Alex-it7ms]

Is the Men’s Wearhouse line not copyrighted? Lol

[@BXMarathoner26]

I think Big Sexy over Johan still stings to me because Johan would be at 3 Cy Youngs and would make more of a case for the HOF with that 3rd Cy Young.

[@CharlesShabubby]

Zito getting the Cy over Pedro in 2002 is a bigger injustice!

[@jakegoeke4146]

“Eight years ago…” 🤯

[@gandix5516]

Cespedes had an ops + of 98 with the Red Sox. I think Carl Everett holds the title of best player to ever play for Red Sox that nobody remembers. Despite him thinking dinosaurs never existed.

[@SteefPip]

That Tigers rotation was rock solid, and got blasted 0-4 by the Giants.

[@Trillyana]

Shout out to my boy Chien-Ming Wang. Need him to show up to Old-Timers Day one year

[@AliceYobby]

Baseball Reference doesn't use OAA to weight Pitcher WAR, they're using DRS - kind of weird to pull up the OAA stats at 10:15 when discussing the weights (or to mention Park Factor when that is already weighed in, like, those weights are used specifically to make their WAR more accurate, not less?)

[@chriscreaturo8809]

The 2012 race was closer than 2009. 4pts to 6pts

[@g-magz9502]

1:31 Adrian Beltre kind sir

[@FireballTalksNASCAR]

When is the Skip Lockwood video coming

[@GoombaGuy1996]

It's his birthday today. Happy Birthday Skip!

[@OH_MY_DOGGG]

Id love for someone to win a major award and comeback award on the same season be it Cy Young+CPOY or MVP+CPOY. Why not all 3?

[@Bruh-Bot]

Britton deserved it he had an 803 ERA+ that will never happen again. Maybe the greatest season from a reliever of all time.

[@downrighttt]

I’m a Tigers fan from New England. All of my friends used to sarcastically thank me for “Porcell-blow/Por-sucko” and then he robbed my favorite pitcher of all time of the CYA. All I know is pain

[@asdfaeou]

Hmmm. Here's the thing. Typically, when awards go to the "surprise guy" it's because voters go for the Story over the Results. But Porcello didn't have the story. He didn't have either, and it wasn't a "voting for the story not the results" situation that got him there. He was overwhelmingly the second best. He just happened to be so much so the second beat that when it came down to obnoxious voting from people with no really finger on the pulse of the season, the slightest slip up got him there. That's why this result was always the worst for me. The math AND the reason why it happened are both ridiculous. At least with other situations, you can chalk it up to "that was the game at the time". But that wasn't the case here.

[@gus234]

Britton clears both of them

[@EonArashi]

You want to talk about the real robbery, Bartolo Colon’s 2005 Cy Young over Johan Santana is #1. Mariano Rivera had equivalent bWAR to him at 4.0, Santana had *7.2* bWAR and finished *third*.

[@imoorzy]

Ok but let's get real... Albert Belle ABSOLUTELY should have won MVP over Mo Vaughn in 1995. The only offensive stats that Vaughn had over Belle were PAs (by 5), ABs (by 4), triples (by 2), GDP (7 less), HBP (by 8), and intentional walks (by 12). Belle 100% got robbed.

[@that_baseball_guy1]

2015 Shelby Miller would like a word

[@Gravy_Jones22]

Julio Franco video. Man defied time

[@jameskreisler6083]

Judge should be about to win his 3rd MVP

[@KennyFrierson]

Pitching was real good in 2016

[@MrBlazemaster525]

Only reason he got that hardware is big-market bias

[@lebronakon2324]

Video idea: armando gallaragas second best game. It’s probably like 6 innings or something 😂

[@TheAtomicEwok]

Verlander fans shouldn't be complaining when Phil Niekro pitched 300 innings and lost to a reliever with a worse ERA among other stuff.

[@notthemauler]

Tiger legend Rick Porcello

[@DetroitSportsFanSince2002]

Yessir 😂 but I really like him with the Tigers not to mention he had a huge streak of complete Game shutouts in 2014

[@theJUBMonster]

Did you say eiGHT YEARS AGO?!

[@peterskrobola8753]

This ancient history Cy Young race look back is funny because this is the last season the Tigers had a winning record.

[@seankathman6339]

The goat doc Halladay

[@heyitswesty]

Gabe Speier: Still a big leaguer. Barely. but still...

[@JeffreySheeler]

Seton Hall Prep's finest

[@passdagabagoul4369]

My ACE

[@Murr48]

Do a video on 2014 Phil Hughes with Trev. Phil Fluke is what we called him but that year was gross.

[@SamtheWalrus2000]

Watching this made me more convinced Verlander should've won lol

[@jrodddtv2373]

Matt Kemp 2011. Not even arguably, he BAD the way better season….. and the other dude was on PEDs, that is INSANE.

[@chasebingaman]

Looking at baseball reference, i really do no understand pitchers with practically the same era and innings, yet a separation of 3 WAR. Strikeouts can't matter that much, can they?

[@Nobes2024]

If you all.want to see award robberies, please look at mvp races back in the 50s. I'd argue almost every single winner could've have been another player and some weren't even close IMO

[@OH_MY_DOGGG]

Oh henry rodriguez video where art thou?

[@thomasdimarcantonio956]

Where do you stand with the “David Wright was robbed in 2007” argument?

[@shoukatsukai]

2016 Rick Porcello wasnt as bad as 1990 Bob Welch: the most horrendous starter Cy Young robbery. Bob Welch wasn't even the best pitcher on his own team. Even the 1990 Athletics baseball reference page has him behind Dave Stewart. He won solely because he had 27 wins.

[@petegorman9547]

Pretty Ricky

[@NA47TES]

Britton should’ve won

[@EthanSchaner]

You've lost your MLB Power Pros background music privileges with this one. Nobody defends Rick Porcello in my algorithm and gets away with it.

[@dpm2515]

WAR isn't a perfect stat...the fact that it's used to justify or negate awards is ridiculous and overemphasized by statisticians who have a conflict of interest and fans who've accepted the mathematicians propaganda that a new shiny stat that they really don't understand is superior to every previous metric

[@sxekoolaid9904]

he point is that pitcher wins and losses have no place in baseball and that was the only reason he won. Without the 22 wins he wouldn't have even been top 5.

[@colebekeritis1729]

Disagree, because Rick is cool and it was fun

[@johnathanspore2378]

Zack Grienke should’ve won cy young in 2015. That’s the hill I will die on

[@Tsuny999]

Rick Porcello owns you

[@treysonmcgrady4750]

The under 5’ 10” brand is so funny. “Clothes for shorter guys” You mean, the vast majority of guys? 5’10” is not average height.

[@griffinhays2053]

I just want to know why in god's name that one writer had JA Happ as his third place vote

[@dannytrashmandavito5282]

Sigh 2019 Zack Grienke is underrated

[@og5466]

Alternate title: Detroit being a farm team for best pitchers

[@t.o.double9497]

Ok starting pitchers need to pitch more innings.

[@AcesShadows]

YES FINALLY RICK PORCELLO LOVE. (my fav red sox pitcher to watch when i was young)

[@WESsential]

Thanks, I feel extra old now. I remember when Porcello was drafted.

[@yahcrack]

Burnes robbed Wheeler

[@brute32]

As a tigers fan... 9 cya and 8ws rings chaps my ass

[@gmonmon77]

if by "going strong" you mean being injured almost all season than i guess youre right