Jon Snow in The Winds of Winter - livestream

[@jlworrad]

Great discussion. I’m looking after an empty hotel right now (Yes, I know, very Shining!) and this livestream filled a couple hours most wonderfully.

[@Lukerbts]

James Worrad Keep a very close eye on the hedge animals, bud. Oh and maybe go ahead and send ur wife and kid home now.

[@210SAi]

Where is the hotel?

[@jlworrad]

O G Outside of Leicester in the UK Midlands. The Riverlands, if you will. 😁

[@OneOnOne1162]

44:30 - I think one aspect of Davos as Jon's hand that might be relevant is Rickon. On the show it felt a bit odd that Jon would suddenly trust Davos so much and Davos would suddenly be so invested in Jon. It felt a bit inorganic. And I think the reason why that is, is because the showrunners were trying to follow the book but never included the "Davos goes to rescue Rickon" arc that the books have. I think Davos' rescue of Rickon and his protection of Rickon will endear Davos to Jon and in reverse I think in his travels with the boy Davos will come to somewhat care about Rickon (perhaps seeing one of his sons in him) and be upset when he dies and that will give him common cause with Jon.

[@lisarood9509]

I SO , SO do not want to see Rickon and Shaggy Dog die, but if we have to see this, I'm hoping it will be in a blaze of glory. Both Rickon and Shaggy Dog are wild, savage and fierce. So I'm hoping they die as they have lived: wild, savage and fierce. Taking as many with them as possible!

[@makhabolikate1252]

Robert is so charismatic and calming, argg you are a definite go to for us book fans, you helped me grasp the books entirely

[@garretthenry2733]

Shortly before he was killed, Jon also sent 6 of his best rangers to search the North of any remaining Wildlings, as well as any sign of the approaching Others. Including Ser Alliser Thorne. I have a feeling, for good or ill, Thorne will have major role to play in Jon’s (expected) resurrection.

[@matorchiana]

Jon has dragon dreams, in Dance of Dragons, chapter 8 "« Dragons again. » For a moment, Jon could almost see them meandering in the night, their dark wings clipped against a burning sea. " They are Targaryen symbolism.

[@skdewolf7606]

Your commentary is my solace thanks.

[@lancekyser14]

If Jon comes back and his blood isn’t flowing because he’s a fire wight, he’s the perfect one to blow dragon binder

[@210SAi]

Isn’t dragon binder all the way over in Meereen?

[@IceSnake201]

Your Solo Streams are awesome, love them so much

[@samuelleask1132]

I've been looking forward to this livestream so much!!! I've just joined your Patreon (long overdue), and looking forward to this video was the only thing that got me through a whole day of studying... thanks so much Robert for all your amazing work!!!

[@InDeepGeek]

Thank you, I really appreciate it. And welcome to my patreon community!

[@FirstOfTheMagi]

lol around 13:48, in reference to how Jon will likely be post-resurrection, it just sounds like he'll turn into Geralt of Rivia I definitelyl agree though. He'll be a darker, more brooding Jon. He'll be harsher in temperament and likely calloused to death, which may drive many decisions and character moments

[@carlrood4457]

Another reason saying "Jon is like Ned" doesn't make him Ned's biological son is that Lyanna was Ned's sister. They had the same parents raise them (at least until Ned's fostering). There is very much a "Stark way" of doing things, even through members who have very different personalities and experiences. Jon's "Ned-like" traits could be simply from the different ways boys are raised from girls within the same family or from the fact that Jon, like Ned WASN'T raised to become the Lord of WInterfell.

[@Airehcaz]

My favorite videos on the topic of Jon’s resurrection were made my Lucifer Means Lightbringer & Quinn’s Ideas (a.k.a. Ideas of Ice and Fire) Check ‘em out! Basically they also believe Jon will she resurrected using his innate Warg powers (but perhaps with help from Bran) via the body of Ghost; Jon’s spirit will be housed by Ghost, whose skin he has already worn, and somehow will find a way to return to his own body. I agree with that idea, and also believe Jon will be a changed person. He’ll be more fiercely loyal, and protect his “pack” by any means necessary.

[@fernandosimon5621]

I want to see a wolfish Jon. But according to GRRM there HAS to be a big price for resurrection otherwise is cheap. So I wonder what negative aspects this new Jon will have...

[@fernandosimon5621]

@Stannis Baratheon I think so as well. That's why I can't see him very interested on the political side of his true identity. But I feel his main goal will be to battle t The Others and retake Winterfell. He had read the Pink Letter wich prompted him to abandon the watch to go fight Ramsay right before his murder.

[@fernandosimon5621]

@Stannis Baratheon True. I think that it will depend on how much time he spends in Ghost. Catelynn was dead for a few days and what came back was only hatred. But Jon's soul may stay more "whole" since he will probably warg into ghost right after.

[@fernandosimon5621]

@Stannis Baratheon That's right! Man I can't wait to see how it all plays out!

[@stormcutter59]

I love Jon so to see him lose part of himself is gonna hurt me very much. I can't help but wince at the thought of him bordering on evil as he tries to complete his goals.

[@AndrewK23777]

Great stream as always , can't wait for TWoW and so many concepts / arcs & plot lines within it but Jon's character & arc in particular is near the top of the list. Looking forward to some excellent very clever writing from GRRM pre, during and post resurrection with Jon. The whole resurrection in the books will be much more complex and well thought out than the show for example and i do expect a degree of change and alteration with Jon (unlike the show). Anyway we look at it there is going to be some change and cost , Jon's body died in a very violent treacherous way so it will take some cost to remedy that and i expect some alteration, possibly physically (potentially white hair / red eyes) but more likely his character and personality. Beric and LS have shown change , and even with Jon being preserved in Ghost as a soul jar , believe Varamyr explained the more time spent warging into an animal the more the animal spirit takes over and more interconnected the spirits become; so that alone should yield some changes. There are various magics at play to accomplish this resurrection , although fire magic from Mel (the same magic we have seen work with Beric & Stoneheart) who is at the Wall makes the most sense and probably one of the few things the show got right in terms of book canon. Not only the magical cost possibly Shireen's sacrifice which could fuel Jon's guilt , anger and rage post resurrection (if she was part of it) but his personality as we have seen with other resurrections , as well as after the time spent in Ghost , will be somewhat altered. I do expect a more wolfish Jon - likely more aggressive , harsh , ruthless , more alpha , even more protective of his pack , possibly more driven and ambitious etc . I would not say ridiculously altered but i do think we would get some heightened wolfish traits in Jon compared to previously. Perhaps partly minimized because Ghost is a direwolf of a somewhat different ilk and disposition. I just hope based on what we learned from Varamyr this action does not cost one of Ghost or JS' lives ; on account of Jon spend too long in Ghost to the point it becomes too hard to properly separate their spirits. I would prefer both of them make it out of the resurrection and instead of being too interconnected to separate , they actually become more interconnected and in sync than ever , Jon's warg powers likely taken to another level as well.

[@AL13NM]

There is a difference between those that have died and been resurrected and John who is killed but has a living vessel to preserve his essence. Catlyn and Berrics essences apparently are drifting out into the void and what is resurrected is what is left. John should come back basically the same having not actually died in the conventional sense. I would not be surprised if Bran is the guide to help john return, the way Bloodraven has been a guide for Bran.

[@goatmc]

Do you think Stannis’s essence warged the air per se when he kills Renly.

[@davidjones272]

Yeah, bran has already done this for Jon, appearing in his dreams in book 2 and helping him to see through ghost's eyes for the first time.

[@fernandosimon5621]

This is spot on. Jon will become more "wolfish" though. As stablished by the ADWD prologue, the more time he spends in Ghost the more wolf-like he will be. And there has to be both positives and negatives about that. GRRM said it himself that resurrection at zero cost is a cheap way to write.

[@stormcutter59]

@@fernandosimon5621 Funny cause this resurrection is the one time I would tell him to F off with that philosophy. 🤣 I can't bear to see Jon changed into something worse because of this resurrection lol. God it's gonna hurt

[@elsamendes1]

I listen and watch your live streams ... They're great! Congratulations...

[@Pranrss117]

I hope he is the same as in the show I don' wan' it , u r ma queen are possibly the greatest pieces of dialogue in any medium

[@tammichenard1024]

Great video In Deep Geek! Keep up the good work! This quarantine is driving me up the wall...a very necessary thing, but this plague sucks for everyone...so thank you for helping us all get through this trying and unprecedented time. (Well, there was that other, black, plague I suppose...) We are in this together. Apart. Love and Light!

[@210SAi]

55:00 it makes me nervous when you discuss the difficulties in bringing everything back together for the final ‘2’ books. I just don’t want it have a rushed feeling like seasons 6-8 of the show were.

[@annawisdomsdottir4947]

Not to worry. George RR Martin has taken these many years to write The Winds of Winter. The Dream of Spring will likely take 5 to 8 more years once The Winds of Winter is published. Hopefully GRRM will live long enough to finish both books - he is 72 you know.

[@210SAi]

Anna Wisdomsdottir nothing we know about GRRM’s writing style indicates he will release the final book within 5-8 of releasing WoW

[@Jennifer-di4nl]

We need another one of these

[@eric2500]

Tyrion has been everywhere and met everyone - even people who have low status. Bran will soon be able to SEE everyone and every WHEN - perhaps even some possible futures. They are the characters with the widest knowledge.

[@twopaintings]

And if they say the second life is simpler, maybe Jon wants to keep that feeling of calm, of a simpler, sweeter life, and be closer to his skinchanger identity. As a parallel to Daenerys, she will return to her dragon blood identity, but also longs for the calm of the red door.

[@benjaminschamp5966]

Rickon will blow the horn of winter and will go out in a blaze of glory with the dead starks. I have no reasons but I've decided it must be so.

[@Jennifer-di4nl]

It is known!

[@amandaherbert4194]

It’s better than his legacy calling him an idiot for not “zig-zagging.”

[@winterchild6120]

Fitz is not killed, he takes poison with the understanding that he has to go into his wolf, and his body will be revived. It is actually quite complicated, his friend who also has the animal bond, heals the body, and coax his spirit back into his body. His spirit doesn't want to return, because they have become to integrated. In got the equivalent would be Bran or another skinchanger helping him back after his body is healed.

[@reginaldtyroneshort]

Illyrio friends in the Reach are House Peake. The horn of winter was captured by the Others. There will be a POV of Jon through ghost. I see Jon being King beyond the Wall though the Gift will be his. He will build a port city by Eastwatch and a mining town by shadow tower along with multiple large villages by rivers BTW. Also turns New Gift in to farmlands; The Old Gift becomes forest, orchards and pasture lands. In the North he’s called the winter king,Jon the Builder, or The Ice Dragon, in the south The Bastard King or possibly as Garth Greenhand reborn and across the sea The Prince that was Promised. Also everyone says Shireen will be burned by Melisandre but what of Her Mother. She has Queens’ Blood and would be a better sacrifice.

[@jodysheridan604]

I'm catching this after the fact but, what's happened to Ghost while Jon has warged into him? Did he lose some of his wolfness or pack drive?

[@coreydemaster218]

At around 40 minutes the discussion about Jon being like Ed . . . Its interesting cuz Catelyn compares Rob with Brandon more than Ned . . .This parrallels with Jon & Ned since they are both like their uncles

[@Lukerbts]

I thought u were talking about Jon being like Ed, as in Dolores

[@210SAi]

Luke Roberts I thought he meant the famous Mr Ed

[@nischal4337]

@@210SAi I though he was Ned xD

[@shivavereen3222]

Let’s explore another aspect of Jon’s resurrection. What may he gain? I have pondered on whether Jon’s Targaryen half will come forth and in a prominent way. He will be more decisive, absolute, and even more authoritarian. Ice incubated in Fire. Whereas beforehand Stark Ice encased the Targaryen Fire.

[@210SAi]

Why would he gain anything? Gaining something after being resurrected is in complete opposition to what’s happened in the books and what GRRM has said about being resurrected from death

[@mr.clymate7489]

@@210SAi I believe the Gain component should not be seen as something positive, but more so a gain in character development. Losing pieces of himself will change him and probably for the better to match this cruel world where Magic has returned. He will be prepared for Winter.

[@Nihilanth]

can't wait till jon and dany meet up and conquer everything. jon always dreamed about being a conqueror and leading men to glory and dany always wanted to have a family to look up for her and to be by her side. a song of ice and fire

[@eric2500]

On the imPORTant matter of dessert wine, yes sir, you are correct...it simply has to be ruby port!.

[@flimflam945]

Great stream...GGMU!

[@JoniukasVader]

In Deep!

[@oscargustaverejlander.]

I get the feeling Robert is kind of over LML's take on ASOIAF

[@danfranco6938]

Do you think Arya has anything to do with his resurrection? As she was me ruined A lot more during Judi final chapter? Or maybe that will be his calling after his death to find aryA

[@ekehernandez]

I haven't heard any of my ASOIAF youtubers talk about the posibility that Littlefinger wrote the letter, and that's exactly Littlefinger's style.

[@tammichenard1024]

Ooh. Never thought of Littlefinger. Interesting, and as you said, it would be his style.

[@210SAi]

Little Finger would have to have his own spies in Winterfell to pull this off

[@ekehernandez]

@@210SAi Right! If only there was somebody who hates the Starks (specifically Ned) in Winterfell...

[@210SAi]

ekehernandez and who have been shown in the previous 5 books to be collaborating with LF. All these new conspiracies showing up when things should be getting tied up is ridiculous. Exactly why these books will probably never be completed before GRRM dies.

[@darrenjaxen1019]

Wait why are you assuming things will happen like the show? In Book world it currently seems pretty silly to assume Sansa will be Lady of Winterfell or Queen of the North. Or that Bran will be King of Westeros.

[@henrychinaski5938]

How are you this lost when he’s fully explained it ?

[@TGJoeyT]

Ugh, missed another one!

[@HoofHearted88]

Damn, I missed this one live. I was wondering how you think Jon knew he was stabbed a fourth time when he was on his belly and he couldn't feel it. How did he know he was stabbed when he couldn't see or feel it?

[@fernandosimon5621]

Maybe he was already warged in Ghost and saw it happen.

[@HoofHearted88]

@@fernandosimon5621 Isn't Ghost trapped in Jons quarters because he made Stannis' wife uncomfortable? Jons quarters were in the armory, I have no idea what the layout of Castle Black looks like, but for me, I never pictured the armory with windows at a height for a direwolf to look out of. And I don't really think that's how the story is written, really.

[@210SAi]

Fernando Simon Music maybe he initially Wargs into something or someone else. It does not have to be only Ghost that he’s warged into at the end of his chapter

[@fernandosimon5621]

@@HoofHearted88 Right, I forgot that detail!

[@DarrowofRhea]

Check out the red rising series its greatest one of my favorites

[@humayunkabir5837]

I think Jon snow is like Frodo baggins who will get alive again and will kill the night king the main villain and will go west or beyond the wall how the show ended. But this time he will kill night king by himself not Arya probably that the only change. Remember Frodo was almost killed by nazgul and he probably never healed fully and in the end went to the west. I also believe bran will become the king and Dany will also die. Iron throne will be destroyed just like the ring in lord of the rings. But the whole build up story will be different and will make lot of sense.

[@JLCRH]

I can't believe that 2nd half of 2022 we still don't have Winds of Winter. GRRM has done us all dirty while he chases fame and $. I have almost no faith that ASOIAF will EVER be completed. Not only because he is undisciplined, but he has just had C19 and he is old. I pray that his helpers Elio and Linda know enough to give us the answers we have been waiting 10 + years for, because George doesn't care about the fans.

[@jerimeyperry3282]

Fire consumes, cold preserves

[@liberTvalance]

Hey Robert sorry I missed this live. I work 2nd shift shipping food. Do you think twow gets darker because of the recent real world event? Grrm locked away scared of social contact could make the plagues in the book come to the front in a bigger roll? I know it depends on what he already had done but pale mare and gray scale and the shivers just became characters.

[@210SAi]

No way if he’s able to alter WoW to comment on COVID19 this won’t be out for another 5-8 years.

[@MyMomo17]

Been listening for years I had no idea you were so handsome.

[@hilariamagalhaes238]

He really is

[@justincurll1110]

Robert, I'm absolutely LOVING the Well Told Tale, and my suggestion might be a bit long, but I suggest the Hobbit.

[@alexb3604]

Justin , could be wrong but as of now i think Robert is only covering books that are in the public domain which I do not think the Hobbit is anymore per court decisions restoring its copyright , which i believe were mostly within the last decade or so.

[@Steve-bm3cq]

The direwolves could represent the Starkishness of the children. Jon's Stark ancestor saves him from death, Sansas stark idealism gets killed by lanisters, bran's roots lead him deeper into history, arya's is untamed...rickons is off screen...

[@gavomorg762]

Maybe sgireens deadth with pave the way for Jon's resurrection then hopefully when hes back and gets his justice well hear that badass line again "edd fetch me MY block "lol and possibly he might come back more like brandon Stark

[@jerimeyperry3282]

I hope he goes out killing whoever the great other is in a great one on one on dragon back battle. The same way rouge prince went out. Dragons locked together, biting and clawing as he jumps and sinks longclaw or lightbringer into the great other before they hit the ground. I want him to rule as king of westeros and beyond the wall, but he is the king of winter, not summer and this won't end how I want.

[@goatmc]

Over/Under 19.5 (-110) Robert takes off his glasses in this livestream? I’ll take the over.

[@shaunw.7299]

Harrinhal is large enough to house danny's bfa(big f!@#$ army) if it came down to it. To me there is forshadowing for this. But will her army be so big by that point

[@mjean6762]

All this talk of what Jon is going to do after his resurrection, I want to know what he does while he is in Ghost! After seeing chat comments...I don't think Arthur Dayne could be Mance. Ned would have recognized him when he was at Winterfell.

[@tammichenard1024]

Yes! I want a whole book of Jon in Ghost! However, I will happily take a couple of chapters.

[@carlrood4457]

Well, Ned would have been in on the secret and kept his mouth shut.

[@reneebarger5194]

If Mance is not Arthur Dayne, he is at least a member of the Prince Prophesy Protection Plan (Commander Mormont, Maester Aemon, the Half-hand, Tormund, Benjen & Bloodraven). It is great fun to think of the Kingsguard trio at the ToJ as the three Musketeers. We could then supposed the Musketeers went to the north to watch for their “prince” to arrive & help him fulfill his destiny (Tomund, Halfhand & Mance ).

[@210SAi]

In reference to Mance being Arthur Dayne... why would he have spent so much time beyond the Wall with the Wildlings?

[@darrenjaxen1019]

It is easy to say Jon has plenty of fire symbolism. It's harder to actually quote the book to demonstrate it though. Or that Jon Snow is going to be King of Westeros.

[@patriciarainey4497]

I think Jon will still go to Winterfell. He can go while he is warned into Ghost!!!

[@joseMartinez]

What if since Jon got stabbed in the heart he comes back heartless, cold, more ruthless

[@mesaana1112]

I'm glad you don't subscribe to ghost dying for Jon's resurrection like David lightbringer. Such a stupid idea.

[@pinkbunny6272]

Imagine if people could skin change into their cats? Someone goes into a coma and comes back with a catititude... John will be wolfish, a mix of two beings.

[@darrenjaxen1019]

It is definitely a mistake to assume Jon's role is to be the balance of Ice & Fire and shoehorn your theories around that idea.

[@mitch1833]

Regarding Sansa and warging. Sansa is often referred to as little dove or bird. My guess is that she will learn to warg a bird.

[@210SAi]

To crap on LF

[@bjworm8078]

Jon isn’t skinchanging he is being glamored By Tormund. and he is glamorizing Tormund

[@ralphiegeorge9460]

Bj Worm you can’t be serious.

[@210SAi]

Jon is Dr Strange

[@bridgethammond7]

As it’s mentioned by other people below, I really hope Jon is guided back to his body through either BloodRaven or Bran. But he has to change. Yeah, he wasn’t dead for long like say Catelyn. But I wonder if they’ll be a small time skip and Jon’s body is kept in the ice cells

[@210SAi]

He’s been dead going on a deCade and counting now

[@bjworm8078]

What do you think about the theory that it wasn’t Jon that was stabbed? I was told another you tuber came up with this theory. Instead of being Jon it was Tormund. Melasandra glimmered Tormund to look like Jon and Jon to look like Tormund. She used Jon’s long claw and Tormunds arm bands to make the glammed the stronger. Also, Jon describes looking down at his body, which we assume he was looking down at his dead body, but it was a Jon seeing what was happening to Tormund (looking like Jon). When you are being glamored that person can feel and hear what is going on to the part of you, your essence being glamored. I actually think this is brilliant. It’s much more likely then a Jon surviving the stabbing by going into a Ghost and them being able to return to a stabbed body. Those were fatal stabs and I don’t think George would bring Jon back in someone else’s body. What will stink is we will be losing Tormund.

[@jarnobrofelt1891]

That was Jon point of View, so no way that was Tormund. That would be just bad writing, so i dont think so.

[@SHARKVADERS]

IDG!!!

[@Nga_Babaye]

What if Danny's role is to save Westeros from Jon?

[@apacalypsagon3758]

Do you acknowledge that jon has alot of jesus traits. 3 kingsguard at the tower joy. 3 kings...

[@chippersonsencyclopediaemp1318]

😂

[@tammichenard1024]

Jesus has no place here. Or anywhere, as far as I am concerned...

[@conors4430]

Just the traits of a saviour that have been used time and time again throughout history.

[@oscargustaverejlander.]

"LiTTle Finger", not "Lidle Finger""

[@darrenjaxen1019]

And In Deep Geek jumps the shark at 36min mark. "RLJ is pretty much beyond debate based on the current evidence". Ok In Deep Geek, can you list the evidence?

[@magnuspeacock5857]

Several videos in the R,R,L&AT series do that

[@darrenjaxen1019]

@@magnuspeacock5857 True. I'd prefer if they gave us evidence to examine after making such claims. RLJers whp make the claim that Geek did, without fail end up providing several pieces of false info, if they ever do provide any.

[@darrenjaxen1019]

Such as a claim that Lyanna had gray eyes. Or that she was in TOJ. Or that R+L were anywhere near eachother after Harrenhal Tourney. Or that Rhaegar ordered the KG to stay at TOJ. Or that Lyanna was pregnant. Or that more than Howland and Ned left TOJ alive. Etc. None of this is canon but they will state it as if it is.

[@magnuspeacock5857]

@@darrenjaxen1019 what alternative do you follow?

[@210SAi]

Beyond debate 🙄

[@machomadness4522]

Really worried George got sucked into woke culture and changed a lot of his writing for it. That's why it's taking forever for the next book.

[@conors4430]

Nonsense

[@ikesweitzer9815]

I dont know.. I think Jon might be dead forever. In his last chapter it says that he gets stabbed. He is probably dead.

[@IceSnake201]

😄

[@AndrewK23777]

Ike , very likely Jon will be resurrected , can't be a coincidence we have examples like Beric and Lady Stoneheart coming back in the current narrative via likely the same fire magic Mel will use who is at the Wall in close proximity to Jon. Also "Ghost" as his direwolf , with the Stark direwolf names almost certainly tied to their fates , the name and concept of a ghost a manifestation after death can be construed as a sort of resurrection post postmortem. Ntm Jon's arc just seems has much more to run on numerous levels , bloodlines likely another heir to the Iron Throne , role against the Others , likely the figure head uniting the North if / when Stannis dies & many other textual clues in general. Extremely likely Jon comes back.

[@AndrewK23777]

Dave , probably so but there were some deniers in the live chat as well and yes I did not give every clue which is why I said “many other textual clues in general” . Mel asking to see Azor Ahai and seeing Jon , capitalized “Snow” in the text , part Dany’s vision where she sees the blue rose are also both further evidence Jon’s arc has more to run. Between his arc not being finished and a bunch of textual evidence for both that and the resurrection it’s nearly a certainty he will be resurrected in a similar manner to the show , albeit much more complex with more moving parts , via la somewhat different method with likely some differing results , consequences and alterations.

[@210SAi]

RIP Jon Snow You knew nothing

[@趙明-n6n]

If in the end, like GRRM has confirmed that Bran will be the King, and Jon will go back to the true north, exile or voluteeriy. I think I will stop following any sequels that coming. GRRM certainly is not a gardener type writer as he himself and some other commenters proclaim.Instead he's a manipulator trying to catch readers' surprise reactions to build his credits and nonsense. Jon Snow has already been designed as a doormat and a fool for lies and betrayals in the name of honor, so his Targaryen heritage means nothing but a curse to only have stupid romance with Dany and ride a dragon. He's not unburnt nor has or hatches dragons, but still a pathetic Bastard, in Starks' or in Targ's sense. A bastard will be stay as bastard that's the main idea what GRRM really trying to convey.