Why You Should Avoid Purchasing a High Mile Renault Zoe ZE50

[@TheRonskiman]

I'm a mechanic, been in the trade since 1986. This sort of thing really annoys me, deliberately built in failure points and poor design, there are some really good ideas out there, then manufactures do really stupid things. You got one thing wrong, they need to fit a beefier bearing in the first place, then it will last longer and not fail. I primarily work in the truck world, I see the same sort of problems and shortcomings, but trucks do last substantially longer. I see car gearboxes fitted to vans, no oil change interval specified, sealed for life nonsense (we always change gearbox oil in vans at about 3 or 4 years and 60,000 miles). Just last week I had to spend over £300 on a gear stick assembly, all it needed was a new plastic bush, but guess what, you can't get it anywhere. I know of two people in recent months, one that had a very close call on a wet belt, and another which failed completely at 60,000 miles in a Ford Transit just last week. I really can't fathom why someone who's supposed to be clever would put a rubber belt in oil, and then specify over 100,000 mile change interval. Golden rule, change all wet belts at 50,000 miles, always change the engine regularly, and use good quality oil. PS Thanks for the Hevra and EV Clinc links, added them to my EV list of info - will be looking for an EV in a year or two.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

What a great comment from a non ev mechanic. Thank you 😊 and yes check out HEVRA a great info source and offer training course's for EV repairs , and certification etc 😀

[@DefinitelyNotAGuru]

The bearing looks quite small to my untrained eye. Pretty shameful that Renault won't sell spare parts eh!? Great video. Keep it up!, Jim

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks Jim 👍 😊

[@johndoyle4723]

Thanks, there is a whole new oportunity for those in the car repair business, learn how to service and fix these cars. Your days of Clutch repairs, cambelts, exhausts,oil changes, DPF and ERG,engine rebuilds, head gaskets etc are fading, time to adapt to change.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Great point!

[@decimal1815]

@@johndoyle4723 would be good to see more govt funding going into free training for garages in UK. It's all happening a bit too slowly because EVs aren't breaking down enough!

[@Mexi257]

Exactly, reskill and prosper.

[@garysmith5025]

Absolutely correct. I remember 25 - 30 years ago digital engine management was going to be the death of the independent garage as only dealers would be able to run diagnostics, and the systems were too complicated for "traditional" mechanics. Tools were soon on the market for the independents, they trained and adapted.

[@thumper1747]

What I love most about this electrification transition is the sense of a transport ‘re-boot’ and the emergence of thousands of skilled people like those in your HEVRA approved garage all over the UK. I owned 19 ICE BMWs over 45 years and most were two or three years old and had it not been for a small but highly talented and utterly dependable independent garage, I would have been dependent on the totally untrustworthy rip-off merchants that were the ’franchised’ dealerships.

[@bernardcharlesworth9860]

All bearings have serial numbers on them and industrial bearing factors will supply bearings at a fair price .Once the pce is removed on this vehicle the bearings are an easy swop.If the windings are shorted there are many industrial rewinders that can replace the faulty windings. I have worked on a traction motor that was first built in the 1950s and has had many new bearings since then and is still going strong.The motor in an EV is nothing new.Any good industrial electrical shop can handle this job.This would not stop me buying this vehicle.Although the bearing does look rather small for the duty it has to provide.

[@Fastandpro]

Better bearings in an LG washing machine tub. I buy from SKF in bulk because they fail so often.

[@mrswinkyuk]

Why would they sell you a bearing when they can sell you the full motor for a thousands of pounds. This isn't just Renault, it's all modern manufacturers. Then they wonder why people are deserting them.

[@decimal1815]

@@mrswinkyuk as more EVs are scrapped the supply of parts will improve. There's just not quite enough EVs reaching end of life yet and ending up at the breakers.. but that should change now we're seeing cars reach 100k miles and above now

[@barrysnelson4404]

It's been going on a while. I remember 50 years ago Alfa Romeo wanted 80 quid for a bearing so I just read the bearing number and got one for a couple of quid from a bearing supplier.

[@Michael-qm5yc]

Indeed, need to make up for less likehood of requiring servicing aspects vs ICE vehicles. Also it will take them a while before they are able to get margins similar to what they use to get on ICE vehicles (as this has been declining over the years)..

[@hughmarcus1]

Actually not that different to ICE vehicles, where parts are often sold as units, despite only one tiny section failing. The advice on these Zoe motors is to replace the bearings around 60k miles

[@stephengreen8986]

That was very useful. I have a Zoe and in 10 months the PCP ends. I am cautious and didn't want the criticism from people who have 5 minutes of anecdotal experience behind them, thrashing hours of my pre purchase research. JP was part of this research before I committed. (I say committed). Renault were offering two year old Zoe's for less than half price on a two year PCP for 15k on a top spec GT line in a good colour. The dealer had 12 on display, half their forecourt, so they weren't living dangerously by discounting savagely. With a five year warranty, neither was I. They even threw in 2 year's interest Free no deposit and so it was too rude not to accept. Lately I'm not sure whether a 21 reg would be worth more than the Guaranteed future Value so and I will look for JP's monthly auction videos to decide what to do.

[@hughmarcus1]

Get them to put a manufacturers warranty on it.

[@arnoldasgurskis2945]

Thanks for sharing your story. It's not the EV problem, it's a mechanical problem, specific to Zoe. Oh well, glad I didn't buy it. Looking at different options right now, second hand obviously.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks for watching!

[@michaelgoode9555]

Fella washing it needs to be taught how to wash a car. You work top down but he went all over the front potentially picking up grit before moving on to the windscreen and roof as well as the bonnet and wing. I shall be checking out that website JP 👍

[@JonathanPorterfield]

It was prewashed before i filmed the intro !

[@pollywollydo]

Main objection is the amount of time just to get in there. What was the bearing ID number out of interest.? Some actually wear the housing . Garry C EV repairs is well worth watching for further interest 👍

[@01jvb]

Thanks Jonathan. What we all want to know now is - how much was the cost of replacing the motor ? (Depending on the cost, it could still be worthwhile buying a high mileage Zoe at the right price)

[@peteglass3496]

Opinion: what do we believe a motor life should be. I think a MTBF should be c.150,000 miles pretty much guaranting 125,000ml. We've been making electric motors for pushing a century and a half so, while there are clever magnets and windings, the core rotating shaft is hardly novel. I also think their should be better guarantees on the whole drivetrain, battery through electronics to motor.

[@tonywhite5883]

This exact fault happened on my BMW i3, recently, with around 76k on the clock. Replacement motor time, car is 9 years old, and being BMW that was very very expensive. Job was done and motor fine but being BMW another electrical earthing fault raised its head. My point is, this is not restricted to Renault, it’s, I believe, down to motor design and manufactures business model. The i3 has gone and been replaced by another EV, though I can easily see what this fault and manufacturer behaviour can and will put many off EVs. I always use HEVRA accredited garage. Anyways, just my thought as it were. Cracking video and thanks.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks, Tony, for your comments on this video 👍

[@johncrispin2118]

Thanks John , I am amazed that that feeble bearing did so well all things considered, a bit penny pinching I think. far too small imho, .. bearing (haha) in mind the one on the other end of the shaft was probably the same size for that v heavy rotor.

[@jdaley197931]

Thanks for sharing your experience.

[@grahambate1567]

Very useful video, thank you

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks Graham 👍👍

[@Goodchappy]

Thanks for this honest, yet worrying video. I wonder how long the bearings on the electric motors on trains last. 100,000 miles would be nothing for a train so why the Zoe 50 motor bearings are wearing out so soon shows a design issue. I'm very concerned as I have a 2021 Zoe 50. I hope Renault watch videos like this and have a serious rethink about supplying parts.

[@hughmarcus1]

They won't Zoe is a legacy car now. Only independents will keep them on the road. There'll be somebody who will be supplying recon drive units for them soon.

[@z00h]

@@hughmarcus1 ah the Apple support model in automotive application, 7 years and you're done. A dream come true, worth fighting for by those who like to lobby for EV's as the saviour of the planet.

[@EVPuzzle]

Previous owner got shot just in time then , such a shame but thanks for the honest update

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Just ex lease !

[@EVPuzzle]

@JonathanPorterfield which motors are the best and worse then. I'm guessing from milages out there Tesla and Koreans are top of the pile

[@JonathanPorterfield]

@EVPuzzle check out the ev clinic article , its a interesting read, link is in description 😀

[@WilliamLeigh-cl9bq]

How does Renault not selling the replacement bearings sit with the EU right to repair?

[@stevechambers8869]

@@WilliamLeigh-cl9bqyes as they offer a replacement motor. The regs don’t force micro component level availability.

[@bolwem50]

The Zoe is the only EV that does 22kW AC charging. This really keeps the cost of long road trips down. I'll forgive it the bearing issue but I'll be sure to listen out for bearing whine on mine and source a replacement pair in advance. Thanks. p.s. I don't think there's an air filter on the air intake of the motor cooling fan. I think I'll look into fitting one. I've just bought myself a space saver wheel and jack after being caught out wit a burst tyre. I can't believe car makers don't include a spare wheel anymore. A can of tyreweld only works occasionally.

[@timoliver8940]

I have the new Mini Countryman S E and 22kW AC charging is one of the things you get with the Level 3 option pack like I have. I’m not sure if the new J01 Cooper S E’s also have it in the Level 3 options pack though.

[@johniooi3954]

Motors can be rewound, had plenty done on machines at work. That bearing should be sourceable from somewhere, as clearly renault will not be making them. Time that parts like this, like in the past. Where you could get exchange on them & manufacture would recondition them.

[@davidquinn5906]

Similar thing with the PTC heater in Nissan Leafs. When it goes it tends to blow a fuse in the DC to DC converter. A Nissan main dealer will sting you a few grand for a whole new unit where a specialist will strip it down and replace the fuse.

[@PJWey]

GaryEV has a load of videos about this issue and resolution. Renault using cheap parts!? Never!?

[@sipart]

Yes, he is worth a sub 👍..... www.youtube.com/@garycevrepairs ... if you have a Zoe less than 5 years old and want to keep it, then probably worth taking out the Renault extended warranty before the 5-year warranty expires (too late after expiry).

[@bigbadthesailor5173]

thanks so much for posting this: was the other bearing NOT replaceable? I'd have thought somebody with a bit of cash to invest chould ship a box of those bearings and contact every Hevra garage in the country to let them know they can supply: there are a LOT of ZE50s around.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Good idea 💡 👏

[@martinweston8147]

At a similar mileage my last TDI a 1.9 Seat needed a dual mass flywheel a clutch and a new VV Turbo, I guess your Zoe was still cheaper

[@michaelgoode9555]

Shame on Renault but the very fact that it is repairable is good news.

[@BikingChap]

Anything's repairable but can you imagine the cost of the works in this video?

[@jasonallatt5410]

It’s not repairable though, they had to replace the motor. 🤔😂

[@Fastandpro]

@@jasonallatt5410 As garages get up to speed it will be cheaper than a timing belt. It is an Easy job after you have done 2 or 3 and you can charge a premium labour rate.

[@BikingChap]

@@jasonallatt5410 not in this case as it had chewed the windings but if they'd caught it earlier both bearings would be all it needed i guess.

[@MrEV]

Absolutely fascinating!

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks Andrew 👍

[@davidquinn5906]

110k isn't high miles. If a car's a little bit older it becomes low miles. That shouldn't be difficult repair. New bearings and a rewind. £7k for a new motor is nuts. Just need to get places established with the right skills.

[@SimonHollandfilms]

oh boy...as a ze50 owner....not only are renault trying to kill me, by removing a €20 side impact head airbag....they have bearings that fail! and cant be serviced. FFS renault.

[@hughmarcus1]

They can be serviced, not just by Renault.

[@Timstravels01]

Fascinating stuff. Cheers JP.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks Tim 😊

[@rhiantaylor3446]

Helpful input so thanks. A good tech dismantling a motor and seeing bare winding wire would be unwise to invest any further chargeable time to repair the motor. Looking on an auction site, a full 2020 R135 motor/gearbox/electronics stack can be had for about £1k and the labour to swap the complete assembly should be affordable. Renault do not manufacture in the US so the bearings are clearly not Zoe-specific though may be a less common size hence not easy to find - maybe £50 ? My take is that it might be prudent to change the motor bearings before they get so bad as to render the motor scrap but this would require splitting the stack so, for this job, labour might be more significant. In the US there are already firms doing a similar job on Teslas.

[@flamingteabag4572]

Bear in mind this particular Zoe has been absolutely thrashed. 100,000 miles in 3 years is not normal use for any car, especially one designed to be a city runner. This doesn't put me off buying a Zoe, its what I'll likely be picking up in the new year.

[@Jamesandkate]

Glad it’s sorted, pal. Great, honest video 👌🏼

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks matey 👍 😀

[@JenniferHall-o6s]

Rather than going to a main dealer, surely there must be other bearing suppliers in the uk who could supply the required bearing. SKF, although Swedish have a plant in Northamptonshire; could they not have been approached, or were these avenues tried before the USA?

[@markglanville6495]

This is a common problem with all Zoe's. Probably the reason you don't hear about many ZE50's having motor bearing faults, is most are repaired by Renault under the 5yr warranty. Watch the Gary C EV Repairs channel to see him repair many of these faults. Our used ZE50 is low Mileage so should last a while. A lovely car, much underrated. According to Gary, action is needed as soon as the bearing rumble starts so they don't seize and spin on the motor shaft or in the alloy motor housing.

[@00DaNnY000]

What type of noise is it? My Zoe is on 31k miles

[@decimal1815]

We need more honest reports like this about all EVs. They are repairable, but you pay the price in labour costs. Zoe seems to have motor issues in both ZE50 and ZE40 after about 10 years.

[@stuartburns8657]

Disposable EV's then 🤔

[@decimal1815]

@stuartburns8657 recyclable.. and more so than petrol cars

[@stuartburns8657]

@decimal1815 on paper yes. Very little happens yet though in reality. It's reality that counts, not potentiality

[@decimal1815]

@@stuartburns8657 batteries are always recycled, never dumped in landfill. There's already an industry set up around this in Europe. Other parts of the cars are recycled just like petrol cars. You can get parts for EVs just like you can for other vehicles already from scrap merchants in UK. Supply can't keep up with demand at the moment..

[@edspace_66]

www.youtube.com/@garycevrepairs seems to do a lot of Zoe repairs including the bearings, worth checking out.

[@mikadavies660]

Very practical video... Reminding all of us that things CAN BE FIXED without the need to buy overpriced items from the dealer. A pair of bearings every 100,000 miles is not too bad... 👍

[@daviddunmore7076]

I volunteer for a local repair cafe, it's (maybe not) surprising how many things seem to be designed to nto be easily repairable.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Thanks for watching and your comments 🙂

[@backwoodsbungalow9674]

Can someone clarify whether or not the second bearing at the other end could be replaced if that was done before the bearings failed? 🤔

[@conradknightsocksknight1590]

What was the full cost of the repair please ?

[@JonathanPorterfield]

£2050.00

[@anthonybrown4874]

Thanks JP good to know that particular weakness there us a bit of a tendency with modern car manufacturers not to build in repairability into their products be that wear and tear or post crash as it suits their buisness model to have a white goods equivalent product wears out after the warranty not worthwhile because of spares or cost buy a new product and Indebt yourself to them again smart practice but not very consumer friendly. Personally I think legislation covering such expensive products us well due you should have a reasonable expectation that a near £30k product is durable for 10 years or 150k miles as that equates to writing down £3k a year in value seems fair to me. I have had a couple of used Renaults a 19 and a Megane 19 was basic straight forward & reliable just didn't like restarting when hot due to fuel evaporation the Mrgsne on the other hand got to £70k and decided it was fragile and require lots of suspension components and other expensive maintenance. Had considered new Renaults before glad I never bit prefer almost anything Japanese to French, you are right about badly designed and built IC cars quite a publicity disaster for Ford and Stellantis with wet belt systems. Worst built car ever was a Ford Fiesta lovely once sorted but very trying to own initially. What's your feeling on the VW trio of Up etc? as if I take the EV plunge it might be a good place to start now prices are OK I appreciate low mileage Zoe might be good value but being a Renault might just be rolling the dice too much.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

VW e up a great ev , see evclinc,s write up about them

[@you_aint_seen_me_right]

TBH we've got a ZE40 with similar mileage and it's been (touch wood) absolutely faultless. Haven't serviced it for years, the front suspension rattles like a can of Halfords matt black, it's pretty bashed up, but it hasn't cost us penny in repairs for years and hasn't really lost any range either...

[@gordonmackenzie4512]

2 daughters, 3 ice disasters. Renault Clio 43,000 miles, turbo exploded. Honda civic 37,000 miles, new engine. Ford fiesta 28,000 miles eco boom, turbo, engine etc, totally fkd.

[@Fastandpro]

New stuff really is S%%t. My Tyota Townace did over a million thrashed and abused Kms and someone thought it was still worth stealing. I got the purchase price back in insurance but the new one was 3 times the price.

[@stumac869]

You should be able to find an alternative non-OEM replacement for that bearing and treat it as a service item.

[@nchristensen3309]

Are there hybrid bearings with ceramic balls and rings or traditional all metal bearings? I would have asked CeramicSpeed in Denmark to make a set of CeramicSpeed bearings. Lasts 4x longer than steel and is non conductive does not create electrical shorts.

[@simonreeves2017]

Hi Jonathan, greetings from Oxford. This type of failure of the motor is rather shocking. I’m 60YO and graduated as an electrical engineer back in the 1980s, there are millions of 3 phase induction motors in use around the world. The ones I encounter are found in the plant area of office buildings associated with pumps and air handling systems. These motors usually run 24/7 and often exceed 20 years of working life with no maintenance on the motor itself. So for Renaults motor bearings to fail like this suggests a fundamental design flaw with the rating of the bearing, or the way it is lubricated in use, or both. Very poor of Renault; the rotor bearings should not be a limiting factor for an EVs working life imho.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Hi Simon, thanks for your comments, im no engineer, but an EV motor has huge amounts of torque and a range of stress etc , whereas a heat pump motor sits at a constant and doesnt have huge loads ? I could be wrong ! ?

[@simonreeves2017]

@@JonathanPorterfield Hi Jonathan, I think the points you raise here are definitely valid. However these factors need to be considered at the design and specification stage for the motor to ensure the bearings are up to the job. A 3 phase AC motor does indeed make huge amounts of torque, but this torque is delivered evenly at 120 degrees apart (assuming a 3 pole motor, though EVs will often use 12 or even 24 poles to reduce the ‘cogging’ effect of the motor at low rpm). A lot of the strain on the rotor bearings comes not from the motor itself but from the drive component, as this force is asymmetrical. In an EV the rotor will usually drive a reduction gear to transfer the output to the transaxle and differential. In the systems I see, this drive is usually to a tensioned pulley and belt, but the asymmetrical force on the bearings is very similar.

[@alexdalgleish1061]

Don’t know what price difference was new in 2020 between a Zoe and a Model 3 but probably worth paying the extra, just a feeling. You should buy a Model Y if you want one, eNiro does nothing for me. I’m happy with 12 year old Yaris Hybrid for now. Would love a Model 3 one day.

[@robsmith1a]

Years ago I had a Porsche and the water pump had a small seal fail. No service kits available so I had to buy a new pump. Ridiculously wasteful and a similar situation. I get the impression that Zoe motor bearings fail so often that repairing them could be a good business for someone (In fact look around KZbin and it's starting to happen).

[@andrewpreston4127]

Shouldn't really be having to pull a motor apart at 110, 000 miles. One of the big promotional points of EV's is not just the day to day running costs.., but supposedly the engines don't go Kaput in the way that diesels, or badly maintained petrol IC engines do.

[@Fastandpro]

People replace bearings in motors every day. I would rather do that than an Eco boom Ford timing belt.

[@andrewpreston4127]

@@Fastandpro As I said, a significant part of the promotion of EV's is the expectation that they are far more reliable than IC cars. I'm not a mechanic, and given the huge push for EV's I would expect considerably more than 110, 000 miles before I had to pay for an engine out and machine shop job.

[@kjh789az]

Thank you for this clearly explained and filmed explanation. Are there other EV makes likely to experience a similar component fail? Pleased to smugly say I moved on from my two Renault Zoes before the mileage reached above 80,000. Renault are "merde" it appears. They sent early versions of the top of the range Zoe to the UK with a known tail gate fault. They even sent dealers a sound file so the dealer could identify the squeaky rattle and fix it. My dealer didn't fix it until I insisted loudly in the dealer's showroom in front of several potential customers, but it took three further visits and the dealership had to outsource the fix. Renault are merde! Merci. No I'm not a Brexiteer!

[@TheAllMightyGodofCod]

Curious, last 3 times I got in an Uber it was in Renault Zoe... All 3 drivers told me they were reliable and durable and the last one told me that he's was 380.000km, with the original battery at something like 95-98% capacity and with the original engine. He told me that basically, he had never had any repairs in the car.

[@richardforder8390]

Well my very milage 3 year old Zoe should be OK then(10,00 miles). As long as the battery repair (under warranty)at the end of last year doesn't fail. 🤞

[@NckBrktt]

I had imagined that the bearings on an EV motor would be massive things. I have very similar bearings to the Zoe motor inside my astronomy telescope mount which runs at 1 revolution per day ! Not sure about the state of the motor windings after a good rub down with that massive rotor though. Hope your Mum is an AA member.

[@mondotv4216]

I think once the winding shorts out forgettaboutit. Those windings are copper enamelled wire and once the enamel wears through, short of a rewire the motor's not much good. I saw in one of the other comments someone suggesting new bearings and a rewire - I think your starting to get over the cost of low mileage second hand motor by then. There's probably a market for refurbing these motors but I reckon your still looking at a 2 or 3 grand at least for a rewire and bearings etc. This seems to be a common problem on all Zoe's as there's another channel called Gary C EV repairs that's constantly doing ZE40 motor bearings. He's doing one now that's only done 77,000 miles. Considering the old Renault Nissan partnership this is pretty poor engineering because I don't think we see this happening on the Nissan LEAF motors. It's another EV I wouldn't recommend due to the lack of battery thermal management.

[@andyt1048]

My Nissan Leaf nearly 8 years old 54000 miles yesterday and full bars you don’t have to be a rocket scientist if you know what your doing thermally manage the battery yourself. I’m not that clever It’s not like I would ever put petrol in my diesel would I 😢.

[@martineamonnugent8378]

What year is it and is it the gt50

[@andyt1048]

Couldn’t you just replace the second bearing too or was it the burnt winding that finally did it in.

[@Mladjasmilic]

It can be fixed actualy more easily than ICE car. What are the part numbers, the cost?

[@tonyrest6714]

Bearings , just like any ice vehicle, they fail . Brakes , bearings , suspension ... straight out of ice . Most owners don't get to see the underside of their ev's ... till they fail or are advised at the first MOT.

[@FancyaBevMate]

I'm sure I saw a Zoe on sale at an auction for 1500?? Maybe this is why 😂😂😂

[@artursnitov4598]

Motor, gearbox and inverter cost 1k . Pay for dsg cluch replacement more like that.

[@pauldenney7908]

I was warned off buying a Zoe by an EV sales company, the motor bearing isn't the only issue it seems. It's a shame the Nissan Leaf suffers battery degradation because mechanically it's. far better car.

[@BikingChap]

As someone looking for a first EV that's the conclusion I've come to. Leafs are pretty solid apart from the short lived traction battery, the Zoes battery lasts well but everything else seems flakey at best. What other second hand options are there?

[@pauldenney7908]

@BikingChap So my Leaf dropped 6% in 6 years, it was a post 2014 model which had better battery chemistry. Not a single thing when wrong with it in the 3, years I had it. As for what's available then thst depends on budget but the options are starting to open up. Once you get to about £8k there are quite a few options, have a look on Autotrader.

[@decimal1815]

@@pauldenney7908 If Nissan would have made a leaf with battery thermal management, it would be near perfect EV. Instead they gave us Ariya, and killed off the larger battery Leaf to protect Ariya sales..

[@edc1569]

Which EVs have motors with serviceable bearings?

[@Jamesandkate]

Tesla, Nissan, MG and KIA/Hyundai which we have seen.

[@Fastandpro]

Which brand was the original bearing? I hope they used high quality and checked the supply chain to avoid fakes.

[@robertpatrick3350]

Product manufacturers often like to include nonstandard bearing sizes and use their supply to enforce designed obsolescence……

[@databeestje]

A german guy ran into similar issues with the original Hyundai Ioniq, same deal with unable to source bearings from Hyundai.

[@Fastandpro]

Why are people going to car makers for bearings? SKF have overnight delivery or a shop in every city.

[@databeestje]

@@Fastandpro They tried, some are speciality and limited ordering. Motor bearings needs 15-20k rpm bearings, that's not a standard model. This is here right-to-repair comes in to get the parts you need.

[@Lewis_Standing]

Check out Gary C EV repairs. His whole channel seems to be changing Zoe motor bearings

[@ianhailey]

How much did it cost to repair?

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Replacement motor and reduction drive was £1250, labour £750 , just over £2000. My HEVRA garage wanted to do R&D on this repair , so the bill was a fraction of what it should have been !

[@johnbrown3471]

Surely you would have heard the motor bearings whining way before they failed and damaged the motor windings?

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Not a whisper ! Totally silent!

[@martinwray7001]

I don't need to see this with my Hyundai Kona currently at 108k miles and the model reputedly 'enjoying' similar reduction gear failings. 😅

[@zilspeed]

Have you had a final drive fluid change ? Many are now doing this, I understand.

[@martinwray7001]

@zilspeed It wasn't part of the schedule on my 19 so I asked for it as an extra at the 100k service. Out of warranty now so listening for every squeak, although I still love the car.

[@nickline6888]

My eniro has the ticking noise from reduction gears/motor. Been in the dealership for 5 days last week to have some sort of bracket fitted which hasnt worked. Booked back in for motor or reduction gear replacement 😱 The cars on 72k and had the reduction gear oil changed at 65k. Never been serviced at Kia and they're doing it all under warranty but who's to say it's not going to happen again just out of the warranty period 🤷‍♂️ I'm still not convinced going electric was a wise move...

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Their was a faulty 'batch' of motors in the kia e niro , not all are affected !

[@nickline6888]

@JonathanPorterfield the dealership haven't admitted anything about a faulty batch but did say they've only had technical advice from kia uk regarding diagnosing and repairing the issue for a few months.

[@davidpickard9393]

Small bearing with no additional lubrication after manufacturing

[@martinwinlow]

What happened to the EU's 'right to repair' legislation...?

[@briangriffiths1285]

You would think that the bearing would have been big enough and strong enough not to fail! Big commercial motors run for years without failing or service... so it isn't rocket science. EVs have so few moving parts and you know the bearings are key to longevity you would just think ....

[@garycevrepairs]

Hi Jonathan, did CS Omand only replace one bearing? I replace both when I rebuild these as they won’t work if the rotor has sideways/up down movement. Motor rebuild here. Cheers kzbin.info/www/bejne/bX2ago1qhbRmpbM

[@PJWey]

Stellantis are even worse for making EVs that are designed to fail. Legacy Auto are desperate to shoot them selves in the foot

[@edwardbyard6540]

Aren't these Bosch motors?

[@cyclingthings]

these are used as taxis in colombia and they are at 400k kilometes without issues. i think he got a bad car or abused car. mine has been flawless for 100k kilometers now

[@JonathanPorterfield]

The ZE50 Zoe ??

[@cyclingthings]

@JonathanPorterfield yes 2020 ones

[@ianemery2925]

It would be interesting to know the cost of tearing apart the engine at say 100K, and replacing the bearing as a precautionary measure; making it an actual service item. Just because Renault dont give a shit (when did they ever?), doesnt mean the garages shouldnt be able to source bearings from the US and replace them at will. I had my own run-in with Renault, many years ago; when they insisted a part didnt exist, even though I had it in my hand, and it had Renault part numbers and the logo stamped into it; like you, I ended up having to source a replacement engine to get around the lack of a fucking 2 penny part. First and last Renault I will ever buy.

[@bertrandep]

Cost of bearings change : around 2000€ : because 10 hours labour to access motor/bearings + couple hundred € for New parts (mine had gear box fluide changed).

[@ianemery2925]

@@bertrandep ouch, OK, there goes THAT idea. Although, it is something a competent DIY'er could possibly manage.

[@StephenStyring]

That’s why Renault do not want you to get bearings ,if this had gone to dealers they would have scrapped it ,then you have to purchase a new car

[@BikingChap]

Not an EV hater but the difference with the wet belt ICE engines is that if you use the right oil, don't push the service intervals and change the belts earlier than originally advised they're fine. The trouble with these EVs is there's nothing you can do to make that bearing last longer, in short the 'engine' will last 100k and then you have to find a replacement. I'd love to know how much the repair cost of the replacement motor, ancillaries and labour came to...

[@eddiejones.redvees]

If you can see why Renault and Nissan are going bust you not going to buy a car that do not now look after it’s Customers

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Yup 👍

[@toyotaprius79]

Still better than any diesel

[@rickbaines8262]

Bet it would have trouble towing my 2.5t trailer

[@jonm7272]

Well, except that my 2008 Mondeo 2.0 tdci now has 160,000 miles with absolutely no issues, nothing spent beyond regular servicing, and will likely do another 100,000 miles with no problem. Ebay is full of them with 200,000+ miles. More modern diesels have been ruined by emissions regs (rightly or wrongly) but without that most diesels can easily manage 500,000 miles with just servicing. These electric motors could easily be made to last more or less indefinitely (see industrial motors). This bearing failure is just shoddy design (likely intentional since a never ending motor is obviously bad news for the company's business model).

[@thinfourth]

Can you take the bearing apart to see why it failed? Take the shields off the bearing and take pictures then remove the cage and pop out the balls and inspect the races

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Sounds like another geek video 🤣

[@Swwils]

It failed because it is not cooled.

[@dominicgoodwin1147]

That should be challenged under EU right to repair legislation, surely?

[@caterthun4853]

We are outside the EU. So, we cannot challenge standards

[@dominicgoodwin1147]

@ have we already lost all the consumer protections that the EU used to provide us? Anyway If Renault don’t provide those parts to workshops in France, then that ought to be challenged. If they do, then get it from there.

[@Ronick-Q-46]

Easy answer, Don't buy an EV or a wet belt engine.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Or a car with a dual mass flywheel , pfd filter ......

[@MichaelWilliams-mo1vv]

This is shocking. I'm sure I've read articles and seen videos where it's stated that ev motors can last 100s of 000s of miles? Most ICE can last 200000 miles.

[@redjohn20001]

You echo my thoughts on the Zoe. Take a look at Gary C ev repairs youtube.com/@garycevrepairs?si=9-xpElNgzYifrd3x. He has had many Zoes cross his path with failed bearings. Another "feature" of the Zoe is carbon brushes used to provide poer to the field windings. Good to see you flag that one up Johnathan. Great little car but with a limited top end mileage.