Goodness, Truth and Beauty | Discussing with Fr. Stephen Freeman

[@festivalonearth]

Thank you, I enjoyed this conversation and thought of the poet William Blake - “Labor well the minute particulars, take care of the little ones He who would do good for another must do it in minute particulars General Good is the plea of the Scoundrel Hypocrite and Flatterer For Art & Science cannot exist but in minutely organized particulars”

[@JonathanPageau]

That's a wonderful poem.

[@RSanchez111]

Fr. Stephen's comments on politics also made me think of William Blake: "I am really sorry to see my countrymen trouble themselves about politics. If men were wise, the most arbitrary princes could not hurt them. If they are not wise, the freest government is compelled to be a tyranny."

[@maxwellhouse1362]

Very cool thx

[@festivetosho7376]

What do you make of the part about circumcision?

[@charzo118]

Every video is adding a piece of the puzzle for me. Thanks Jonathan and Father Freeman

[@TheRealRealOK]

I am so glad I converted to Orthodoxy.

[@FREEAGAIN432]

Beautiful wisdom shared herein. Thank you so much Jonathan for sharing this gem with Father Freeman. Very clarifying for me, especially the sections about how modernism has changed our vision of beauty and how Christianity is an embodied way of just being human. Inspiring and revealing on many dimensions.

[@faithfatherhoodfamily]

Fr. Stephen is such a blessing to all who find him. Wonderful conversation.

[@neildegraide2297]

This was a brilliant conversation. It helped me have a better understanding of the value of orthodoxy (which I’m not) and helped point out some world views I held that were interfering with my sense of intimacy with God. Thank you

[@verntweld51]

How long after this was your conversion? Interesting to look back at who we were and what changed / changing us.

[@behailumulugeta5062]

i really enjoyed the 3 of us.😊

[@Glassr91]

Jonathan Pageau and Fr. Stephen Freeman in conversation, awesome! You should interview David Bentley Hart next. my life will be complete. lol.

[@MegaVicar]

Thank you for this! I’ve been reading Fr. Stephen since about 2009 when I was in seminary. He’s been a wonderful companion in ministry.

[@solvitasperambulatorum8624]

The liturgy as perfect art! thank you!

[@jmstater]

Beautiful conversation - thank you both. I've lately been feeling the anger one can feel when watching the parade of news pass by, and this talk helped center me a bit. I don't want to be angry, I want to feel love and forgiveness, and I know that I'm going to have to work at it.

[@UserUnknown_333]

Thank you for this truly enlightening conversation from a "TLM Catholic"

[@breakonthru5]

Thank you Jonathan. This is great

[@lannyrayconnelljr]

Last Sunday on the Feast of the Dormition of the Theotokos I became a catechumen at St. Joseph’s Orthodox Church in Houston TX. About 3 years ago this video introduced me the work of Jonathan and Fr. Stephen and to Holy Orthodoxy. Thank you both very much for your ministry and witness. You have changed the course of my life.

[@lannyrayconnelljr]

I’m scheduled to be baptized on Holy Saturday 2023; this conversation was the catalyst that began my conversion. I will be forever grateful.

[@kingsessingdad]

@@lannyrayconnelljr Glory to God!

[@theodoremccarthy7031]

Ritual is play, and play is ritual. Liturgy is how we learn to build and embody the kingdom of heaven in this world.

[@veilofreality]

Great conversation, thank you, Jonathan. Fr. Stephen Freeman words are very profound and inspiring man.

[@franktank334]

It’s so cool seeing conversations about orthodoxy and it’s theology etc. even as an orthodox Christian myself it’s rare that I see these kinds of conversations or topics being discussed outside of the liturgy on sundays so this is really cool and appreciated

[@shawnhampton8503]

I don't think Jonathan or Fr.Stephen would disagree with this but there is a certain mystical sense of connectedness and union with all other humans, Christian or not, in the sense that we are each other, or share in the same humanity created in God's Image and Likeness. This is why we look at someone who did a good deed: something peaceful, loving, compassionate, kind, etc. and we can bless God for that. And yet, we can also look at someone who has fallen into sin, no matter how big or small, and instead of condemning them or judging them, as we are commanded not to do, we say "well, there I am... I have done/said/thought bad things too: Lord, have mercy".

[@Kolajer]

This man is absolutely stellar! Loved every minute, knocked the wind out of me a couple of times. Thank you Johnathan!

[@Hellyers]

The clarity here on the importance of the particular was very helpful. 👍

[@michaelparsons3007]

This was a very enlightening discussion thank you both!

[@lisaonthemargins]

It must be nice to have such sweet guests to talk to

[@zita-lein]

Loved this! ❤️💙

[@jonasdamion1627]

wow, LOVE this guy

[@julijanacvejic517]

Thank you for this beautiful conversation Jonathan, and for introducing to us people like father Steven! 💜

[@siochanaarandomhan5073]

I just listened to this again today and love it. (I know I have heard it before as I started reading Fr. Stephen Freeman’s blog at some point but I forgot the details.) Such a beautiful conversation and gives me motivation to go try to live the day with integrity and peace. Love how they make each other laugh.

[@KairosDBT]

I appreciate your work, Jonathan, and I'm a fan of Fr. Stephen, too. What a treat to view you two together.

[@Joshualbatross]

This was powerful. Thank you gentlemen!

[@vanessaa2301]

I loved this conversation so much. thank you Jonathan for showing me to Fr. Freeman!

[@RSanchez111]

Yes! Fr. Stephen's comments on politics and the culture war, and the proper relation of Christians to both are in my opinion Christianity at its most authentic. I think that is a message that is sorely needed today. 43:05-43:43 I think Pope Francis said pretty much the same thing recently. He took a slightly more confrontational tone, but he said that people who went to mass every day but persisted in hating other people were hypocrites, and even went on to say that it would be better that they were atheists than hypocrites. Needless to say the hypocrites were angered by this. Pope Francis said something similar a year ago, that it would be better to be atheist than a hypocritical Christian who exploits other people, leads a double life and engages in dirty business. I think that the "god" that hypocrites serve by acting out their hypocrisies is the same "god" that Fr. Stephen said he would tell atheists that he doesn't believe in. There's a very vocal portion of Catholics (especially online) who think that Pope Francis is following "liberal" morality. I think they're focusing too much on politics and the culture war, as Fr. Stephen said is a serious problem in Christianity today, and that Pope Francis is making a sincere effort to deal with the hypocrisies that Catholics (and Christians in general) are falling prey to today. Very great talk, I think Fr. Stephen is wonderfully imitating Christ!

[@joshuahottenstein6143]

I love listening to both of you, fantastic talk

[@w00t]

Thank you so so much. I was smiling the whole time while listening to this talk. I love and appreciate you both.

[@greatmomentsofopera7170]

Thanks so much for this - such an interesting talk - very grounding and a reminder of what is important.

[@squallada586]

What a wonderful man. Thank you so much for this fantastic conversation, Jonathan. God bless you both.

[@markcarey67]

"acting out outwardly something that is inwardly true" -> yes

[@Steven-nv7ho]

Wonderful talk! Thank both of you for having this conversation and making it available to so many souls!

[@michaeldavidnvitales]

What a hearty fellow. Good share brother.

[@rustybeltway2373]

Third time watching. Lots of good nuggets to chew on. Thumbs up!

[@ibelieve3111]

Thanks

[@TheDonovanMcCormick]

I enjoyed this one Jonathan. It’s so true, everything we take for granted in our society, everything that is true and good came from the judeochristian tapestry of values. Christianity completed everything but I still have to accept that Christianity came out of Judaism and I have to appreciate what that religion gave to society as well even though I am not Jewish. Seems simple but maybe that’s why it’s so difficult to grasp.

[@maxwellhouse1362]

Hahaha Une vrai belle conversation en or et j’aime beaucoup l’humour et la détente dans l’apprentissage ☺️

[@celesteschacht8996]

Fr. is soooooooo funny! Thank you.

[@guybrushthreepwood3054]

Thank you for the video. Interesting, I didn't know before that there is an ethnic American/Canadian Orthodox church (I'm from an Orthodox country). It's nice to learn about people becoming Orthodox by choice.

[@JoeWhettam]

Fantastic discussion! On the subject of particulars, for those of us who don’t have access to an Orthodox Church, some examples of how to connect with liturgy would be fantastic

[@williamdiaz2645]

Is there a disconnect between what the Bible says and what churches teach? Why is " beauty is essential to the human experience"? I'm a Vietnam era Marine who grew up in Spanish Harlem. Violence was central to my experience in life. Yet here I am a believer not in spite of my experience but because of it. If all paths do not lead to God then all is lost. Our bodies are always seeking an equilibrium. It cannot handle being in a continuous state of ecstasy or sadness. Why does he say this? Does the prophet answer an important question here? What is the context? "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

[@kennyblobbin]

Awesome stuff. Thankyou.

[@Tygryss84]

Wow! I didn't truly grasp all the concepts but it was Very worthwile conversation. Funny thing, I'm reading a chapter of the Bible a day, and today od 1st Corithians 13, where i'm verse 12 is the mentioned "face to face" 😁 Damn - I've read that so many times and still get to see it in a new light. BTW- what came to me, as I'm newly married, is that truth is the way to know someone in particular. Only if someone decides to stand in truth, can we know his/her faults, making him/her an individual, a someone to love. Thus Truth (Jesus 🤔), is a/the Way to Love (God 🤔). Obviously I'm wrong in many ways (I'm still seeing as if through a mirror 😅) but I love how it just clicks together. 😃 Thank You Jonathan for the work you do 🙂👍

[@fraukatze3856]

Some Protestants rejected music at first. But the congregations rebelled. In the Presbyterian Church they gave in, but the hymns had to be based on psalms. That was a long time ago. They’ve changed a lot recently.

[@IkeOg]

"... it's amazing how killing someone can really mess up a conversation" LOL

[@verntweld51]

I miss your comments on Vanderklay’s channel

[@thandoreviews8886]

conversion of the heart

[@dennisb1698]

Some revalationary stuff for me in this conversation!

Hi Jonathan! You talked about what love is in one of your videos. I've been searching for it, going through your videos but can't find it! Do you know? The explanation was so simple and so spot on!

[@georgexanthopoulos9085]

Thank you for this. Haven't watched the video yet, but it'd be fantastic to arrange a conversation with Father Stephen and Dr Peterson.

[@densaakaldte1]

❤️❤️❤️

[@DJ-fq2zu]

Another great video, thank you. I'm wondering if you could do an analysis of some kind on the painting by Hieronymus Bosch, The Garden of Earthly Delights? It seems like it offers up a lot of esoteric symbolism and I'm really curious to learn about it.

[@lonewolffullmoon]

Joseph Campbell comes to mind

[@djcorvette8375]

could you recommend your top 10 books to read regarding orthodoxy? please?

[@Aaron-xb4rq]

@JonathanPageau “The highest thing we encounter is other people.” What about the direct experience of God? The only way this experience is not higher than our experience of other people is because the two are not separate - that in our experience of other people we are experiencing the very incarnation of God. That is, we know experientially that everyone and everything is a manifestation of God.

[@kevin_heslip]

43:12 “Tell me about the God you don’t believe in, I’ll bet I don’t believe in that one either.”😂😂

[@valjrart6702]

Mr. Pageau. Thank you so much for your work. I don't have words to describe how i enjoy it. I would like to ask you something. How's that comicbook project going? God bless you.

[@julianw6604]

How do you reconcile your emphasis on symbolism (by definition, broad abstract patterns) with Freeman's emphasis on particulars?

[@forthegloryofthelord]

Hi I rarely comment on KZbin, but I need to express that I'm really disappointed with the recent blocking of you Matrix interpretation video. I appreciate your work here and wish you all the best.

[@lGalaxisl]

In this talk you discuss how the particular receives infinite value, and how consequently, the personhood of every human is being recognised. Instead of a "tax collector", he is Zacchaeus. I can understand how this is something at the core of the christian message, like Jesus saying that his body is a temple, and that our bodies can be temples filled with the Holy Spirit too. Can you give (preferably concrete) examples of how Christianity has influenced our culture in this way? How does it reflect on art, philosophy, or storytelling throughout history? Say I wanted to talk to a secular atheist about how his worldview is influenced by this

[@fraukatze3856]

lGalaxisl One big difference between ancient Roman pagans and Christians was the value of life. Pagans had no problem with leaving an unwanted infant exposed. The Christians were opposed to that. Once they got established enough to have institutions, people were told that they could bring an unwanted infant to a convent. They would take the child.

[@fraukatze3856]

lGalaxisl One huge thing was breaking up tribes and clans in most of Western Europe. It’s a huge topic with no one book written on it for the general public. But a blogger who studied it thought they found tribes and clans un-Christian. Ever wonder why so much else of the world is still clan-based? Here’s one example, citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.61.3711&rep=rep1&type=pdf

[@fraukatze3856]

lGalaxisl From the blogger (who is not a believing Christian AFAIK) hbdchick.wordpress.com/2011/04/04/whatever-happened-to-european-tribes/

[@joanturri5500]

@36:32 that's very important to know. Jesus will reveal your name and purpose. My true name is Peace and my purpose is Love.

[@ichtube]

So, in general, you can only know the particular. Honestly, I don't have an issue with that. Even if it happens to fail sometimes.

[@random_person6041]

27:55 🎯🎯🎯🎯

[@thenorth4705]

A topic & title for a new video : “What God is NOT”, lol. Thank you , Gentlemen. 🙏

[@stuckmannen3876]

I'm probably missing something but surely generalities have their place right? Men and women act differently... how would I recognize that fact without turning to generalities?

[@stuckmannen3876]

Don't get me wrong... He does have a great point when it comes to generalities in abstract ideological/ political groups. In other words, catagories that are not real. But other catagories are real; like men and women... different peoples (nations)... etc.

[@stevenyoung3752]

Can someone pls tell me what hes saying here? It sounds like "f*** that" to me 15:09

[@EmilyTodicescu]

He said “thought that”. Lol.

[@charlesvillarreal4705]

That's exactly a hundred and eleven views and it's 8:33 a.m. Divine timing LOL

[@cee3596]

That got me thinking . . !

[@ms.suzylee2932]

“When we reduce each other to abstractions..we can kill them. We find love in the particular.” I tend to generalize... can we say, generally is “figuratively speaking” and “particularly” is more literal ? Although we may have changed, inverted the meaning of literal and figuratively..

[@nc8982]

Jonathan do you put these interviews up anywhere as audio podcasts? If not would you like me to do it for you? I could PM you my email address. Free of charge

[@craigbirdwhistle8671]

I'm wondering how is liturgy in relationships to the leap of faith.

[@janeproctor5542]

The tradition of the litergy as you describe is unifying or creating / recreating a unity similar to a husband and wife kissing when they meet up after a period apart. Even the Church seemed to be a unifying influence upon a country, such as Britain and that Britain, itself had a similar influence as a part of the larger world, as if it was a mirror of sorts, though now its more like looking through a glass, darkly, as Charles approaches his coronation and is breaking away from liturgical tradition related to that event. There are political reasons but ....

[@MadolcheGabbana]

The simlicity of being like a child and "playing heaven" lol ... I likw that.

[@adamm137]

Get Jay Dyer on

[@michaelparsons3007]

What area of the south is he in?

[@JonathanPageau]

Oakridge Tenessee

[@annkellett7592]

Oak ridge, Tennessee

[@MargueriteInscoe]

Christianity is not a culture. God works within and through culture. 😍

[@theodoremccarthy7031]

The supposed "genocide in America" didn't happen, under Christian banners or otherwise. There were deaths due to disease and there were wars with Indians, but there is absolutely no evidence of a systematic genocide of the native population.

[@arnowisp6244]

Try telling that to those who say otherwise. Correlation isnt causation but it gets thrown out in this case.

[@theodoremccarthy7031]

It's not just a function of correlation. It's also a matter of "didn't happen at all". kzbin.info/www/bejne/qH2ViYuVZ9mBoZo

[@RSanchez111]

Oh it wasn't genocide of the Indians, it was simply war with the Indians. Thank you, that makes it soooo much better.

[@theodoremccarthy7031]

@@RSanchez111 Actually it's "The decline in native population over the past several hundred years has been small enough that it can be accounted for via out-marriage rates."

[@RSanchez111]

@@theodoremccarthy7031 oh, didn't move the goalposts far enough, thanks again!

[@Tullerman]

Video games are the highest form of art ;)

[@lzzrdgrrl7379]

You just did for the anti-theists. You poisoned their well of unbelief..... well done......'>........

[@miranda4583]

But there are some political actions that are more righteous than others, no? For example, where would we be if we had just allowed Hitler free riegn instead of getting involved? Or am I not getting the point here? It seems to me that part of personal responsibility is political responsibility -- to do our best to use our voting rights to influence the government, in what little way we can, for good.

[@thoughtbubble7546]

A great movie that illustrates this perspective is "A Hidden Life".

[@thehoundwarrior1701]

If playing at heaven is that boring and repetitive, I don't think I want to go there.

[@JonathanPageau]

Yes, that is important to understand. Most of us do not want heaven. We actually love the fire of our passions and so we should not be surprised when they devour us.

[@thehoundwarrior1701]

@@JonathanPageau I'm having a hard time understanding church and its purpose (a lot of window dressing it seems). Schmemann's books have helped a little, but I cannot help but feel annoyed and even angry when I go. It seems pointless. I loved your brother's book by the way. If there's any helpful resources you could point out for me I'd be extremely grateful.

[@caroldonaldson5936]

@@JonathanPageau most people want to go to heaven but few want to spend eternity in the presence of a holy and righteous God.

[@lydiamalone1859]

He sounds like a Calvinist when he talks about how we humans have no influence on the future. God will decide it for us. I thought Orthodox believed in free will?

[@lydiamalone1859]

@drag0nfly_girl Like Tsunami's, earthquakes, etc?

[@lydiamalone1859]

@drag0nfly_girllove how he elected Biden. God must have tampered with the Dominion machines and forced people to ballot harvest. . Lol. You sound like somebody who believes in monarchy.

[@lydiamalone1859]

@drag0nfly_girlI don't believe YOUR interpretation of it. In fact, I decided about 20 years ago to focus on ancient scholars and ancient linguists who don't seem to have the same sort of agenda most theologians do --who tend the leave out or twist historical context the power structure of humans. So, you think man's knowledge is the same as thousands of years ago. The same mentality of the political "state Church" that lasted for a millennial. I see Genesis creation story as not only an example of human CHOICE but God "speaking" as in the importance of logos ( free speech, truth and reasoning). Man chose death, of course, but Jesus Christ reminds us of another path. History is full of examples of man overcoming the elements, as one example. I sometimes wonder why people like you don't believe God gave us actual brains to USE for good. You are so hung up on God's power (which I agree with but don't agree with you how He uses it) that you fail to see how much ability he gave to individuals. You do understand that the Hebrews begged for a king like their pagan neighbors had. They did not see that God was their King. The moral of that story is be careful what you beg for- you might get a Saul. Good luck with your magic blood that is God anointed in Prince Charles. Lol. Your medieval authoritarian Christianity is a perfect fit for the state Church mentality.

[@lydiamalone1859]

@drag0nfly_girl lol. Now you sound like one of those people who write what they "don't" believe as what they believe. There are quite a few of you out there when challenged. It usually comes from parroting what they've been told instead if doing their own deep dive study.

[@lydiamalone1859]

@drag0nfly_girl what you wrote in your comment before this one is that I'm supposed to think that you believe something totally different than what you've written here. That is actually a very typical response to these sorts of interactions.

[@lydiamalone1859]

John named Diotrephes. Lol.

[@meridiancondos4898]

I agree with 98 percent of what this guy is saying but even Jesus got spiritually political with the rabbis who were teaching idol worship lol

[@ferreus]

So are you with Russia or Constantinople?

[@ferreus]

@Straight White Male the Russian Orthodox Church recently went into schism relative to the Greek (Constantinople).

[@ferreus]

@Straight White Male I asked which he belongs to. Saying "Orthodox" isn't sufficient information anymore.

[@guybrushthreepwood3054]

It doesn't matter, it's not like the Catholic church, there is no highest authority, the Constantinople patriarch has more of a ceremonial title since his own patriarchy is almost anecdotal in numbers (It's in a 99% muslim country). That is purely a political game and, in my opinion, it's played with bad intentions by the patriarch of Constantinople who is advised by and friends with...creepy uncle Joe Biden himself. Enough said about who is behind this game. This doesn't change anything except that his title will now have absolutely no meaning. Creepy uncle Joe obviously has no idea about the organization of the Orthodox church (he is also an antichrist himself).

[@djcorvette8375]

ignorant

[@kylej.whitehead-music309]

He's with the Christian church. Perhaps in a few hundred years your question will become relevant but right now the Orthodox church is the Orthodox church, and denominations are condemned in the Bible anyway so there is only Christianity.

[@alphabeta8284]

ehhh... kids kissing icons... probably saw their parents do it? This is why we need faith AND reason. Not everything can be chalked up to "mystery".

[@dimas2672]

Few strange ideas and info here from Fr: 1. Children kiss the icons because they see their parents and all other people doing it - it’s simple behavioral reaction of a child 2. Children don’t just hug their toys naturally - you have to team them to do it - any parent knows this 3. Liturgy is not a simple and natural process - it’s highly structured, sequential process with 100s of steps you have to do it right sequence with correct duration and also make variations based on time of the year and so on; people study this for years to get it right; the they apprentice I stopped listening after that ... it’s just does not give me confidence I usually find in Js stuff

[@simbabwe2907]

Ahhh. The second point is not true. Nobody teaches someone to hug a Teddybär.

[@mgkos]

The only children that need to be taught to hug are diagnosed to be in the Autism spectrum. All children in all cultures, hug doll like toys eg teddies, rag dolls & stuffed animals. If they don’t have those, they’ll hug a pillow or blanket.

[@gorequillnachovidal]

A couple points of contention I guess here 1) on guns. in the USA guns are for liberty. there are more cases of guns being used lawfully for protection than for crime. Not everyone can just move out of a bad neighborhood, it is not CHRISTIAN to allow home invaders to murder and rape your family 2) Saying that the conquistadors were doing things in the name of christianity is stupid and not supported, if you do something because of a religion then you need scriptural backup, just like if someone murdered 100 black people and said "in the name of MLK I do this" does not make it necessarily so; they did it for the same reason of the gold rush....MONEY!! 3) it is estimated that over 90% of native americans died from euro diseases and not war/genocide, if over 90% die from disease and there are natives alive to this day, then there was no real genocide. Sorry, just false info like this is bad.

[@RSanchez111]

1) Using guns in any capacity is a signal that something has gone seriously wrong. For a Christian, it's a signal that you have strayed very far from Christian teaching. If you're not building a community centered around the Truth, or cannot do so, then as Fr. Stephen said it would be better for you to move than to risk falling into the temptation to take someone's life. 2) The conquistadors were ostensibly Christian. It was very hypocritical of them to serve money over God. 3) War was still waged on them. Fr. Stephen's example of how Russians interacted with Alaskan natives is illustrative of the proper Christian way to relate to strangers in a strange land. It is not CHRISTIAN to exalt violence so much.