Jordan Peterson and Jonathan Pageau Q&A at Seattle Conference - Oct. 2017

This is the Q&A given at the Northwest Catholic Family Education Conference on October 27-28, 2017. The speakers in this Q&A are Jordan Peterson, Jonathan Pageau, Dr John Patrick, Dr. Lynne Bissonnette-Pitre. nwcatholicconfe...
The discussion ranges from the question of life decisions in terms of career to post-modernism and the solutions we can propose to the post-modern dilemma. There are also discussion on grace and many more subjects. This version of the video is edited to focus on myself and Jordan Peterson. The full video is posted here: • Unedited Q&A at Seattl...
The other talks I gave at this event are the following:
- Sacred Art in Secular Terms: • Sacred Art in Secular ...
- Sacred Space in Secular Terms: • Sacred Space in Secula...
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twitter: / pageaujonathan

[@TheGerogero]

0:08 What resources would you recommend to students who would like to pursue a career in your field? 8:15 Is deconstructionism and gender theory the final phase of the iconoclasm heresy? 14:39 Is there any hope for postmodernism? 26:02 Do you see any correlation between innate temperament, personality, and religious experience? 30:33 Is contemporary art a route out of nihilism? 34:00 How would a scientist talk about grace erupting into a person's life? 56:55 How could one apply the analogy of a pillar, i.e. a reference point, to the lifestyles of great thinkers and artists? 1:07:00 Being born into a pathological family, how does a person forgive their family and not adopt a victim complex? 1:21:11 Is the postponement of getting children good for women? 1:34:55 To what extent is the educational system the cause of society's problems? 1:43:37 With respect to your efforts to make the world a better place, what are your next steps?

[@CVsnaredevil]

Thanks!

[@juradoalejandro5261]

Thanks!!

[@Future_looksbright]

Thank you

[@evolvingerinb]

Jonathan, you shined today. Excellent.

[@dang0tt]

he's one of the few who can teach JP somethig new..

[@villiestephanov984]

Evolving Erinb : Indeed. Especially on 8:15 question, the way he portrait Revelation' 12:1 sign. Amazing :)

[@joshranowsky8083]

He shines everyday!

[@RonaldDPotts]

I have to tell you Jonathan, I'm immeasurably grateful for to you for stepping out and being a part of this incredible movement and moment in history. It is in no small measure that your work has given me an explanation to the truth of Christianity that I could never find before. I have always had the impression that doing these things, for you, has been a bit of the reluctant hero role, and I do see you fulfilling that role. Most simply, thank you.

[@rx88088]

"I think I should answer this question." "You are already doing a good job". Haha. Yes indeed. You and Jordan make me laugh so often. You guys work so well in cahoots.

[@paxnorth7304]

What a wonderful and glorious time to be alive. Plenty of work to do here folks ! Plenty of work for everyone !

[@mcnallyaar]

What a *marvelous* discussion!!!

[@ibelieve3111]

Thanks

[@OptionallySavage]

This video is so great. Very engaging - your comment about "tapping Derrida" was profound.

[@Mas0o0n]

I think it's brilliant how the first question was a personal one, great way to get to know the speakers

[@marianam8643]

Thank you Jonathan. Excellent. Will watch the longer one.

[@Onlinesully]

it is very useful and important that Peterson discusses and clarifies the child abuse statistics, looking at it from both ends

[@bluesentinel3129]

Excellent Stuff Johnathan, great Q&A. Thank you for your time

[@Onlinesully]

Peterson says it's not that useful to give advise to people as they have to figure out their own pathway. But he does give a lot of advise and it's really good stuff.

[@rx88088]

Great discussions. Thanks Jonathan. :)

[@youkokun]

your insights are always challenging Mr. Pageau and I'm glad you had room to elaborate so much. I hadn't thought that way about Derrida, for example, and your perspective as an artist was enlightening

[@RonaldDPotts]

youkokun yes, I thought his comments on Derrida were great.

[@malpais776]

Pageau gave one of the best descriptions, and prescriptions, for getting out of Echo Canyon.

[@allex7009]

Saw this ripped on another channel and saw your comment. Thought I'd view it here instead. I was really interested by your analysis of postmodernism at ~22 mins. Subbed.

[@Xanaseb]

Great stuff - thankyou. Intrigued by Dr John Patrick's contributions especially

[@JonathanPageau]

I will post the full discussion soon and so you can see a lot more from Dr. John Patrick. You will be able to find the link in the description.

[@DennisKelly12]

1:11:50 - This portion on the beatitudes is awesome

[@leoleo2336]

just wow... thank you Sir Jon...

[@malpais776]

Dr. John Patrick gave one of the best interpretations of the beatitudes and the concept of "meekness" I've ever heard. Recognition of common humanity before God. A higher order ontology.

[@mombex]

Hi Jonathan, I just subscribed. Your comments on the panel were exceptional. Thank you.

[@spavle]

Thank you.

[@teronjames7457]

god bless........ all of you

[@Topher_san]

"I never thought the end of the world would be so funny" XD

[@TheControlBlue]

We live in the deepest of timelines. Trump 2020 XD

[@tracjerdoc]

articulate bastards. we have a clinical psychologist and an incongrapher/artist having meaningful discussion about things on a very high level. this is great and encouraging.

[@greatmomentsofopera7170]

Great, great discussion.

[@Jerkasaur]

This is awesome 👏🏼

[@Onlinesully]

im not being a smart ass, but I'd love to be as wise as Peterson and I'd love to have had a living roaming around having wonderful discussions and debates.

[@LHill0607]

This is epic, let's say.

[@Xanaseb]

LHill0607 Let's say that let's say is a great term used often nowadays, let's say.

[@Milestonemonger]

Great panel.

[@Milestonemonger]

I'm not religious, but I welcome the psychological approach.

[@TheClassicWorld]

Well, if you accept science then you have to accept psychology. I have found that with the New Atheists types, they reject a lot of science to fit their beliefs and agendas and the two sciences to go for the atheists these days is psychology and Darwinism, which really tells you that they don't care for 'science' and 'truth' at all.

[@agaperion]

One doesn't even need empiricism to undermine relativism; it's self-refuting. P: _"There is no objective truth."_ R: _"Is that true?"_

[@Onlinesully]

Dr Lynne talks about the magic of having a baby and wanting to stay home with them. It's just so hard listening to somebody like this when ones own life has been very much tragically the converse to this.

[@tommore3263]

As Aristotle and philosophers like Ed Feser show.. and I do mean show.. God sings the universe. And we are starting to listen.

[@trindiemus2426]

I need a clip of @45:00 because this makes sense to our "follow the science" rhetoric today.

[@rhysoliver227]

That gamer gate thing. Totally happened to me. And it was seriously confusing. Being very high in openness And fairly low in conscientiousness. These people I more or less agreed with on everything started fighting In a way I had never seen before. Then also obviously Peterson the metaphysical stories and your content.

[@OptionallySavage]

Rhys Oliver Same here.

[@ColinJWiens]

It's hard not to get embroiled in the culture war when the war arrives on your doorstep already in the process of destroying your passion

[@JerseySlayer]

3 years later... All game journos still hate most of their customers, almost every company wants to shoehorn identity politics in its games, and every narrative has to follow the prevailing moral orthodoxy. Those that don't are bullied into submission or made into industry outcasts.

[@mcnallyaar]

At 50:00, watch Jordan listen to the Doctor's story.

[@sjl5187]

I completely agree with the discussion towards the end about children and how our society perceives them. We treat children as inconveniences rather than investments, or sheaths of arrows as the Bible puts it. My family in particular tends to demean children, mostly by demonizing them for expressing emotions. Then we wonder why so many in our family suffer from anxiety and depression.

[@Stevenmulraney]

16:15 Gigerenzer is criminally under represented in the discourse online and everywhere else.

[@paxnorth7304]

1:12:00 Yup. (paraphrasing) "If you ask God to show you what you look like through his eyes, at first glance, it's not gonna be pretty".

[@Onlinesully]

We need a piece if curriculum in the schools on this type if topic Young kids could do with help understanding this stuff as early as possible

[@lGalaxisl]

I would love a reading list on symbolism in (christian) stories and art! Any great books to start with? I'm also interested in orthodox theology

[@AnselmoFormolo]

lGalaxisl For Orthodox Theology i recommend The Orthodox Way by Kalistos Ware

[@Javier-il1xi]

Jonathan recommends "Hymns on Paradise" by St. Ephrem the Syrian for Christian symbolism.

[@Xanaseb]

I aim to start by reading a selection of the Church Fathers. St. Maximus the Confessor especially - whom I am only now aware of thanks to Jonathan's talks

[@FashioninExile]

Dictionary of Symbols (Penguin), Man and His Symbols (Carl Jung)

[@jurchisrazvan4814]

For good introductions to the essence of the Orthodox theology: 1. For the Life of the World - Alexander Schmemann; 2. Ages of the Spiritual Life - Paul Evdokimov 3. The Freedom of Morality -Christos Yannaras 1 & 3 are, on places, a bit difficult. But are essential for understanding some central pillars of the orthodox theology. For a more accessible, but good, introduction (aimed at Western audiences), see Philip LeMasters - The Forgotten Faith: Ancient Insights for Contemporary Believers from Eastern Christianity

[@danthefrst]

Great. Thanks Would be very interesting to hear you reverse-interpret Derrida!! Please :)

[@JonathanPageau]

Ha, if you watched my discussion with Jordan, the first one I did called "Tradition and things that don't fit" I am actually secretly doing that. My definition and understanding of the effect of the monster comes from Derrida, so does part of my understanding of periphery as supplement. I did a talk at Furman University a few weeks ago where I quote Derrida directly about Zombies and so that should be coming out soon.

[@danthefrst]

Ok, gotta watch through that one again with other eyes then! Its just that it is a little easier (yes, I as most other else wants to be spoonfed the easy way) when it is structured "a little straighter". It gets easier to digest and separate whats this and whats that, but I'm certainly gonna watch that again and looking forward for the Furman Uni vid. Story: Had time to loiter around after my appointment at the doctor/physician. Went to Engelbrektskyrkan to just se how it looks. And there I came just as a mid day Bach concert started. Awesome music awesome church. You should do some church interpretations. It's so much going on within them. Images, angles, quantities, patterns, meanings en masse (especially medieval/catholic/orthodox churches). The one I visited: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engelbrekt_Church

[@rhettmelton]

29:15 So we're defining the relatively undefined, and we do that individually by confronting chaos and transforming it into habitable order, and in doing that we become more complex and therefor articulate (to an ever greater degree) the character of the cosmic Self. Like Alan Watts says, the Maya is the game of the Self playing hide-and-seek forever and ever - the Cosmic actor, getting lost in a maze of thy own creation. Amazing. It's so enjoyable to ramble in this way.. it's like logically infused glossolalia.

[@MoiLiberty]

“Post-post modern era” Jonathan Pageau That should be the name of the next philosophical era. Seems fitting! Reminds me of New-New York from Futurama.

[@TheClassicWorld]

Post-post-modernism is already an idea, in fact. Also, they had a New New York in Doctor Who, as well (and a New New New York).

[@shaft9000]

Some great content here. Thank you for sharing :) The presentation is however, startling. I am not complaining, as the production is still better than many. C'mon, spill - David Lynch shoot this or? ;-) These things caught my attention: The camera tilt, a shock of leaning vermilion tablecloth against the bleak (and strangely decrepit) backdrop. While the audio 'pops' off the walls in a mass of rapid Early Reflections.

[@gordonbman2911]

Thanks for uploading, but why are Dr. John Patrick and Dr. Lynne Bissonnette-Pitre cut out at the end ? is there the an unedited version ?

[@misanthrope37]

Is there something to be said of the hierarchical positioning of Christ as the Way, the Truth, and the Life? Or rather, the subordination of Life to Truth and Truth to Way? As in: first the Way (head the correct direction) then the Truth (learning actual, greater, and fuller Truth through correct orientation with forward movement as well), and finally, the Life (achieving Life eternal as well as experiencing a True, full, properly oriented Life now with forward motion). Or, is this just a skewed reading based on how it's generally translated in modern English? Or is that positioned translation a happy coincidence in re-orienting today's Westerners?

[@misanthrope37]

*meaning, is the sequence of a metaphysical relevance, is it practical, or is it inconsequential? I say this as JBP and Pageau alike are giving primacy to 'Path.' Also, JBP's mention of ducks makes me think - Is the frog as maybe a symbolic predecessor of the duck? Both are between worlds, but the frog seems to be an emblem of mirror or mocking, whereas ducks are basically impervious and have access to not two planes, but three (water, land, air).

[@misanthrope37]

I think in alpha order in the Greek, it would have needed to be truth (alētheia), life (zōē), and way (hodos). But as is, it still reads way, truth, life in all the Greek texts mentioned in Strong's.

[@greatmomentsofopera7170]

You make reference to what was talked about yesterday - are those talks online too?

[@Costcoduck]

I was at the conference and have been trying to find a recording of Jordan Peterson's speeches. If you have them or know where I can find them I would appreciate it.

[@TheControlBlue]

Loved the part on Gamergate, was exactly on point. Gamers are a particular breed and I am proud to call myself one because of that. I think those games have exposed to us all those concepts without us even realizing it, the dangers and necessities of Explorations, Win/Lose conditions, the need for rules and constraints for a game to happen, and being the one who can play and make happen multiple games over time. To sum it, the Post-Modernists poked the hive of a very peculiar type of bees long enough that the bees noticed something was happening and years later Trump was elected LUL

[@michaelparsons3007]

I’d like to know who the woman is. We need more voices like hers. If anyone knows please tell me. Great answers from all btw.

[@shaft9000]

Dr. Lynne Bissonnette-Pitre , per the video description.

[@Onlinesully]

just find it hard to listen to everything Peterson says Cause I wrecked my life so so badly by just not having a clue how to live. The parts I've heard most are his words in different discussions about how to live

[@deedlessdeity218]

~1:28:00 If you couldn't possibly stay home with your children, who could? Because a childhood, alone, without your parents, is not pretty. It's lonely, is silent, it's without any knowledge about or bond with your parents. In my youth my country was a Socialist one. Everyone had to work, all day long. A Kindergarten or crib for those under 3yo, was not the same, especially with as negligent and incompetent staff and horrible cantina food, until you're 6 and the same thing continues in school. When Socialism went away, both still had to work full time, and there's noone there from 6 or 7am to 7 or 9pm, because money has to be made, just to get along. Weekends are time of exhaustion, so nothing happens. Still no parents, really; and what's their bond between one another when they never see each other either? When grandparents are dead, who's there for the children? Who are your parents? Who are you? Where do you go? How does the world work? If problems arise, it's only you to deal with them, noone to help, noone to explain, noone to pass on wisdom. Some kids may make it, others are crushed, others simply grow up incompatible with the world, no matter what their potential may have been.

[@iantstaley]

Is there another Q and A like this set for 2019 in Seattle?

[@jimmydane34]

I have a degree in biochem, but everytime i listen to jordan speak and read his books really noticing sentence structure, puncutation, grammer as well with the meaning/premises. The way he communkcates to his audience explaining the logos, science, mythology or using characters in a movie to completely enlighten peoples mind and make them understand the purpose of a stort is very inspirational. At times however, i feel like a complete imbecile due to the mere fact that separation in IQ or just baseline in intelligence level between jordan and I are so vastly far apart i would need 2 or 3 lifetimes of readinf philosophies and pschy just to even have a discussion with him let alone ask questions or even wiorse attempt to have a debate on small particular topics. I feel inferior mentally.

[@jenesaisvraimentpasquoimet8473]

Do you still feel that way?

[@PivotGuardianDZ]

A criticism I have, which admittedly is easy to have as a backseat driver in youtube comments, is nonetheless that I sometimes find it hard to follow the ideas that Jonathan puts forth. This may perhaps be because Jon hasn't been trained to lecture on these topics in the same way that JBP has, and the criticism isnt anything major, just something I've noticed. To his credit though, not many people could do a better job even if they tried, and its also hard to not be outshined by King Lobster. I keep watching these videos every day, mostly JBP and people associated with him, and one would think that watching these people rehashing the same subjects over and over would be boring - and it is a lot of the time. But even at the most boring points of these discussions they are interesting still, in one way or another. Why do these videos speak to me in such a profound way, I wonder. Maybe I'm half lobster and just don't know it yet.

[@filida]

I believe you don't understand Jonathan well because you don't have the same background as he does. I understand him very easily because I am an orthodox, just like he is, and I already know his framework of thinking. For example when he speaks about the heart unifying etc, etc... I dont have to conceptualize what that means, because I already know quite well, and I also lived it to a certain degree. Perhaps he should take this into consideration when he speaks.

[@Kolajer]

Somehow, Jordan sounds totally like Saul Goodman, and Jonathan sounds somewhat like Jesse Pinkman. Synchronicity anyone?

[@deedlessdeity218]

1:23:00 Shouldn't this disparity between pleasure-pool and marriage-pool lead to a reduction in population as a contributing factor over time as well? Shouldn't this, over time, bear the likelihood that the pleasure-pool among the sexes might diminish, or at least the two lead to an equilibrium, assuming the men in the pleasure pool wouldn't procreate to a larger degree than before, over the coming generations, as their strategy of life is not as easily leading to procreation anymore?

[@Prietory]

33:32 .. PEWDIEPIE !!! and he has read Jordan Petersons book ! I would love if Pewds interviewed him , being an Atheist and all

[@albeit1]

It's 1989 and post modernism is the Berlin Wall. And people are looking for the Goddess of Democracy.

[@barres5584]

Does God exist? In order to prove an answer you have to define God and the definition is either undefinable or at best “All”

[@MrMilla103]

What is the doctor's name on the left.

[@Onlinesully]

StretchingLogic Dr John patrick

[@lisaonthemargins]

1:21:12 Her whole answer :,(

[@jessskywalker4157]

Wow man... pretty off put by Jonathon pegeau advising young people to not become artists because there are too many already.. that is some horrible advice

[@illbrizzil]

"Nobody wants a post moder surgeon" hahaha what a perfect comment.

[@kekistanipatriot1644]

will be up for 24 hours drive.google.com/file/d/1QOFaWohtAxqlzLHpqWwxpQHfJcNHOYkB/view?usp=sharing

[@ivymikebushmann9100]

3rd!