Jordan Peterson - The Enlightenment Was Wrong About God and Religion

[@Liberty-Vault]

Do you agree with Peterson on the Enlightenment perception of God and religion? To buy my books, including Thomas Paine: A Lifetime of Radicalism, check out my online bookstore: davidbenner.square.site

[@GEMSofGOD_com]

He's blabbering BS that would be aligned with historical paths of these concepts if he knew about them. I would even argue against unity on top. Gods have always been creative powers of their sorts. Think of Egypt. Unifying? Cultures around gods have always been smth eventually developing directly into sciences, OK, maybe jumping over a few personal moments, but not the framework of scholarship itself.

[@GEMSofGOD_com]

So God has always been about the unification of physics and metaphysics* and not about ethos, logos or anything in the first place, and thank God we've gone far past that in almost 2000 years of the evolution of what's the most important for us. It's (*).

[@GEMSofGOD_com]

A good analogue of the en-lightenment event has been Akhenaten with the same monotheistic tendencies, with the new deus later arriving in the form of modern physics. It has all also largely been developed out of how powerful historical figures' works were vs cultural, collaboratively made role models (anthropic gods). And this is what will soon be replaced. We don't need historical namings in physics. We need immediate understanding of matter. Concepts are within a solid superstructure now that doesn't want anyone to have it in fragmented form.

[@scottmcloughlin4371]

"The Jews" were riffing on Plato's Laws and Plato's Republic. This was a world of scrolls copied by hand. We cannot project "canonicity" into the Old Testament. Plato's writings were canonicalized before Christian OT and NT were canonicalized. I'm a Christian. I'm a well read and educated Christian. Read Augustine's "On Christian Doctrine." Early Christian saints were worldly-wise. Read. We cannot "summarize" and "speak" their wiser words. Read.

[@GEMSofGOD_com]

@@scottmcloughlin4371 Absolute BS. We can and we must think of OT as of canons, of course with versions and editings; no changes at all would mean that words as reference frames never changed which is obviously untrue. Besides, most changes in OT were there to preserve the meanings in times where scrolls were getting lost and the Jews were oppressed. OT itself was a profound work of consensus on the millennia-long debates about effective scholarship, immediately becoming a canon even before getting written down.

[@tomlabooks3263]

I’ve never heard anyone make so many great arguments for God without saying that he believes in Him. May God bless his soul and ours, and grant us enough difficulties in our lives so that we can truly grow up and understand.

[@losdeldostacos8007]

Frustrating, isn't it?

[@tylerhall95]

Does it bother you that he doesn't because you're so attached that your confession of belief offers you some sort of scapegoat from where you fail to manifest belief? This is a genuine question.

[@siggyincr7447]

He believes that people need a belief in something greater than themselves and he's creating a definition of God that he can defend. Hence why he comes up with these definitions of God as a mental construct. Anyone actually listening to him can see that he doesn't believe in the God of the Bible, the creator of the universe who cares what you're up to in your daily life. To Peterson God is not a being, God is a concept, a mental construct.

[@tylerhall95]

@@siggyincr7447 not at all. That's your defensiveness speaking because you refuse to think very hard about God. If you try, you'll run into all kinds of fallacies in your stated belief. You're going to assign all kinds of more palatable definitions to what God was doing in the bible - that aren't in the biblical text or intent - so that you can deal with your mental construct of God. JP is saying that the mental construct of God is the very definition of reality. He's saying it transcends all other realities. It is the orientation of reality. Furthermore - if you think God cares what you're up to in your daily life, I think you're really not even trying to understand the God of the Bible. God is not concerned with supporting you in your life. God wants you to lose your life in pursuit of what He offers.

[@melaniestarkey7868]

A couple of near deaths I experienced, changed how I looked at things. Before the near-deaths I believed in a theory(my own), represented by the splitting of a cell. When the cell first split The FEAR* of being divided and TORN away from OUR WHOLENESS began And that was when FEAR was born. We are in fear because we truly think we are divided yet at this size, it's hard for us to tell that we're not divided at all. We are a part of something GREATER. If you were inside a larger body would you want to be the cancer or would you want to CONTRIBUTE to its WHOLENESS and HEALTH. Each one of us has the EXACT SAME PERSONAL NAME "me"to show we are CONNECTED. You are an extension of"me"living a different life. We are connected to everything. SO WHAT I DO TO> YOU I AM DOING TO THE GREATER PART OF MY SELF. OUR ONENESS, OUR WHOLENESS. When we look WITHIN We see WHOLENESS. When we look WITHOUT We see through a SPLIT SCREEN and think everyone is separate from us. The TRUE WAR is in between man's two ears. It's amazing The poisonous thoughts or (seeds) that are planted in the MINDS and HEARTS of children by the very ones who need DEEP LOVE and RECOVERY. Here's a little something I wrote: There will NEVER EVER be PEACE in >this >world UNTIL there is FIRST PEACE WITHIN THE INDIVIDUAL. WHAT'S IN YOUR HEART IS THE TRUEST INDICATOR OF WHAT YOU WILL MANIFEST. IT IS TIME FOR UNITY** AND FOR MANY OF US IT IS TIME TO DO A SELF INVENTORY AND CLEAN OUT THE NEGATIVE ENERGY THAT BLOCKS US FROM THE SUNLIGHT OF THE SPIRIT. We are like Humpty Dumpty trying to put our-SELVES* back together again and we cannot do this through FEAR and DIVISION. It's only fear that >disguises

[@Wolf-bz6kq]

It wasn't an Enlightenment, it was Arrogance

[@davidddd2001]

thank you for your stupid opinion, oh smart one

[@walesruels]

I find the haters' comments here hilarious!

[@kristiyankrumov1515]

What is hilarious? Did christianity abolish slavery or did Enlightment values abolish slavery?

[@kristiyankrumov1515]

Why do we need theological religion? What is wrong with buddhism? Or secular spiritual practice? All the benefits in the former can be found in the latter two.. without the side effects of believing fantasies.

[@paulaustinmurphy]

@@kristiyankrumov1515 Don't personify Christianity. *Some* Christian nations, and *some* Christian individuals, abolished slavery at certain points in history. *Some* Christian nations, and *many* Christian individuals, supported slavery for a long period of history.

[@rapidash1995]

J. Peterson is a hater of enlightenment ! People hate him because he is acting like a bible maniac ! He needs meds !

[@mathiusq9128]

Its fantastic that prominent figures are finally making these arguments

[@adamgates1142]

Jordan would have never made such terrible arguments before he suffered brain damage. Make of that what you will...

[@jorgelopez-pr6dr]

He's right as usual. They wanted a City of God without God.

[@MRMTAGGART1]

“You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.” Jesus “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” Jesus

[@ingridhohmann3523]

Don't argue with Jesus 😉

[@MRMTAGGART1]

@@ingridhohmann3523 yes!

[@christianblack9426]

4:13 "...that's the Logos, man..."

[@vmasing1965]

I was all about being _agnostic_ until in one quite ordinary day in 1989 God stands right in front of me as a pillar of... idk, a slightly shimmering air. It just stands there, about 4-5 meters from me. I wasn't high or drunk, fully awake at full daylight in the city. It just happened, without any warning, completely out of the blue. The energy was immense, it's like you're put into the centre of the Milky Way, and you're just floating there surrounded by all these quasars and supernovas -- all this insane radiation. I mean, if I would describe it that's the closest thing I could think of. Insane, mind boggling energy, you can feel it with your stomach, with your whole body. I was certain now I will die, I'll just burn to crisp the next moment. Terrifying experience! I couldn't think, I tried to run but then realized it's hopeless... just sheer animal panic. A second or two later I realized OK I'm still alive, somehow? How? And there's even no pain!? Was a bit confused but I just gave up. Whatever, I have no idea what's going on here. Maybe it's shielding me from itself, somehow? I calmed down a bit, I could think again. From then on it was magnificent, but still a little bit terrifying too. The fear of God is not a metaphor, it was meant quite literally. And then He spoke, directly to my mind. So, what do you make of all this? This wasn't supposed to happen. Yea you can always dismiss it as a hallucination or something, and it's not like I need to convince anybody. For you it's just a story told by a stranger, obviously. So take it as you will, I have no problem with that. And it definitely doesn't mean I know who or what God is. It's just that... _This world is way stranger than most people think._

[@glensmillie5101]

I'm glad to have read your story, thanks. I agree with you on your points, especially the final statement. The lord works in mysterious ways.

[@notloki3377]

schizo moments...

[@glensmillie5101]

@@notloki3377 you must seek to do better, your input is an insult. You aren't capable of an intelligent response?

[@notloki3377]

@@glensmillie5101 you insult my intelligence, i insult yours. i've had hallucinations and romantic feelings... i keep them to myself. i consider it rude to share unverifiable subjective information to people. this isn't a therapy session.

[@glensmillie5101]

@@notloki3377 it's a public domain. You cannot seem to comprehend this. As for your ability to discern the Truth. Evidently you cannot.

[@Piercetheveilnow]

Yes. Grow up and pursue a relationship with your Creator. You didn’t come from nothing and you don’t exist from random chemical processes.

[@davidm1149]

Someone likened the atheist's argument of the lack of a Creator to having a hurricane blowing through a junkyard and assembling a 747 (I'd say a UFO, it works better).

[@mariadelcarmenmiranda2499]

Totally agree.You have to go through the process of humbling down fiesta.You have to get rid of your pride and admit that you are not God, no matter how smart, how gifted you are you are nothing more than a finite, limited, flawed, biased creature and THAT HURTS

[@timothypye901]

Patronising...

[@timothypye901]

​​​ Stupid and ignorant. Natural evolutionary processes have been going for a fair few billion years. Hardly comparable with a hurricane in a junkyard is it?

[@timothypye901]

Yeo, you do...

[@gregfarrelly8377]

The truth always matters

[@vemarj2802]

Well. But then again, Lucifer had at least one foot in the doorway during "The Enlightenment," so...

[@CIA.2024-u9b]

Bingo!

[@jimyoung9262]

Lol. Yep.

[@ingridhohmann3523]

Two feet 🤔

[@BarrySometimes]

It’s not the problem of the perspective Pinker & Shermer adopt, it’s the “problem” of the theistic definition of God that's problematic to Jordan's perspective. Pinker uses the theistic definition of God, Jordan rejects the theistic definition & substitutes it with another definition that isn’t compatible with theism, & by doing so Jordan commits an equivocation fallacy

[@fredbeard7710]

Specifically in what way does Jordan’s definition of Unity on top of the hierarchy differ from a “theistic” definition of God?

[@BarrySometimes]

@@fredbeard7710 Excuse possible typos/grammatical errors, just woke up, super tired. Jordan defines god as a product of human minds, a man-made fiction. Theism defines God as nonfiction, & independent of human minds.

[@fredbeard7710]

@@BarrySometimes Do you watch Alex O’Connor? What do you think Jordan means by “fiction”?

[@BarrySometimes]

@@fredbeard7710 What do you mean by “watch”? What do yo mean by “think”?

[@fredbeard7710]

@@BarrySometimesYou made a comment with a lofty claim. Now you won’t defend it? He’s defined fiction before, I’m trying to figure out if you actually know what he means or not.

[@dominiqueubersfeld2282]

Jordan Peterson - The Bronze Age Was Right About Democracy

[@paulaustinmurphy]

No matter what Jordan Peterson is saying, he always makes it seem - through his delivery and the tone of his voice - that he's delivering the absolute portentous truth. It gets predictable and boring after a while. He needs to develop some nuance of delivery, and become less sure of every word he utters.

[@lukewagner8871]

He mentions covenantal relationship. Galatians 3:14-16,29 ESV so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith. [15] To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. [16] Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, "And to offsprings," referring to many, but referring to one, "And to your offspring," who is Christ. [29] And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise. Everyone who receives the Holy Spirit is in a covenant relationship with God

[@IAMLiamwalker4444]

“Whenever virtue subsides and immorality prevails, then I come again and again to help the world.”

[@asielnorton345]

its a mischaracterization to say the enlightenment was wrong about religion. enlightenment thinkers like Locke and Rousseau were definitely believers, as was Descartes, Spinoza, Berkley, Leibniz, Newton, etc. i also think its wrong to say that ones metaphysical conception needs to be unity. there have been more polytheistic advanced cultures than monotheistic. but i would say that in general having a ontological framework outside of material monism is beneficial.

[@WakefieldTolbert]

True, as far as what you just pointed out. Agreed. But I think here Peterson is responding to the *usual* dark letter simplified headline version of how the Enlightenment is generally portrayed to the masses, regardless of the faiths privately held among the men you just mentioned--of which the atheist historians and activists are certainly also keenly aware. In other words, they'd be happy to point out all that the above is utterly irrelevant to the overall narrative that Enlightened ideas and the mighty twin fortresses of Science and Reason soundly defeated the superstitions and baseless suppositions and rituals of the Church and faith in general. Thus the age of modern medicine is proven to work over the sheer mysticism of intercessory prayer. Etc. Also, they'd even point out that although early New England even hundreds of years after the Enlightenment got kicked off, later had a very religious culture regarding at least community and civic life and even legal norms, this culture fades or at least pales when we get around to the age of Jefferson and other Founders. So, for just one example, the atheist camp of Secular warriors would remind the "get prayer back in school" types and the "America was a Christian nation" promoters, that it was never truly so as far as the vision of the Enlightenment influenced Founders who actually put ink to paper in 1776.

[@lukewagner8871]

Sometimes, listening to Jordan Peterson, these scriptures come to mind. Acts 26:24-25 KJVS And as he thus spake for himself, Festus said with a loud voice, Paul, thou art beside thyself; much learning doth make thee mad. [25] But he said, I am not mad, most noble Festus; but speak forth the words of truth and soberness.

[@cyndirobinson2135]

Let the Holy Spirit call all unto Christ and mat they be taught and be saved.

[@IAMLiamwalker4444]

That Which is Everything Lacks being something in particular-Dr Jordan Peterson

[@claudiamanta1943]

4:27 Science that determines what is reality uses maths. *Cristians* ‘Yeah, god is definitely one. Having said that… it’s three, actually, but definitely one’. *Hindus who invented maths* 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

[@charlessudom288]

Many in our modern era follow the age of enlightenment movement unknowingly and without questioning the origins or probing deeper. In summary, this is why so many are agnostic or atheist as we are modern/rational and no need for myths and gods. However this is not rational as Jordan points out as the foundation is faulty.

[@gzoechi]

I think agnostic/atheist comes from God being made mystical. I don't see anything mystical about God as Dr. Peterson explains God. His is also the first explanation that makes any sense to me and it completely changed my view of religion. The mystical stuff is great to manipulate people and present yourself as someone superior who has the supernatural ability to connect with that mythical stuff. The only mystical thing about God is, that it's knowledge, understanding and logical conclusions instead of some physical thing that can be found using a telescope.

[@henpines]

@@gzoechi so stop using the word!

[@gzoechi]

@@henpines What word?

[@henpines]

@@gzoechi God

[@gzoechi]

@@henpines Why not? Because the Church tried to redefine it to make it more useful for their business model?

[@puddleglumswager]

Nothing comes from nothing yet here we are. It follows that Something must eternally exist. Let's call it "God". Atheists think God is more like a rock than a person. Energy/matter is eternal. Theists think God is more like a person than a rock. Consciousness is eternal. The question isn't "Does God exist?" God must exist. The actual question is "What is the nature of God?"

[@11kravitzn]

Atheists think it's at least entirely possible God doesn't exist.

[@gzoechi]

God is mostly what we are made of socially and the implicit and explicit knowledge that humanity carried over from our forefathers, like morale and what drives us like reproduction, love, power, .... The eternity stuff comes only from the assumption that humans always existed. At the time the stories the Bible consists of were "created", people had no idea that humans existed only for a short time. Using God as the creator of the universe is just a lazy reinterpretation.

[@suvorovetz642]

@@gzoechi, isn't your assumption that the universe - like physics and time, etc. - always existed is just wrong? Yes, it is.

[@gzoechi]

@@suvorovetz642 I don't have an assumption about that. I know that I don't know. I'm sure it's completely unrelated to the biblical God though.

[@suvorovetz642]

@@gzoechi, you sure believe in some things somehow.

[@maribethcondrillon1079]

I wish you happiness in our 7 years, all the struggles that happened, i never spoke to you but now I accept it. I know that's where everything will go because we didn't intervene to be appreciated. So as a good woman, you didn't respect me even for a moment. separationI'm a pure Christian, maybe you don't deserve to me. For me, we all grow old, no one remains a child, respect is important for each other, god bless. I hope this is the only desire for happiness. Elon, I'm happy for you.

[@timothypye901]

Personally, my wife and I discovered we can rub along, it's nothing to do with effing metaphysics! Peterson really is a master of the mumbo jumbo.

[@davidddd2001]

Jordan is one step away from becoming a full blown Hegelian lmao

[@mstcrow5429]

While speaking of definitions, there is enough undefined mysticism here to make me unsure of what he's talking about.

[@francismcglynn4169]

“In so far as we desire the definite reconstructions and the dangerous revolutions which have distinguished European civilization, we shall not discourage the thought of possible ruin; we shall rather encourage it. If we want, like the Eastern saints, merely to contemplate how right things are, of course we shall only say that they must go right. But if we particularly want to make them go right, we must insist that they may go wrong.” [Gilbert K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy. (New York: John Lane Company, 1909), 255.]

[@michaelbergfeld8751]

Not only about God: the sun the center? Does the center remain fixed with all the attraction on it! Surely it TURNS! And while turning, why not turning around the earth?! I'M NOT JOKING: ENLIGHTEMENT IS! It's main existence is build on anti-catholicism, because generally too smart...

[@FromAcrossTheDesert]

2:40 This is the problem with the Enlightenment mentality

[@adocampo1]

If you're a mystic and you could articulate as such, what more can you ask for? The mystics are always beyond the beyond, which means what? But is Peterson a mystic, a Zen master or yogi? Who read Jung taking off from the transcendent.

[@Conorthedad]

Mass and Modernity by Fr Robinson talks about this very topic.

[@timothypye901]

The defining aspect of the relationship between man and god is that your parents and/or the dominant ideology is formative. It's not covanental, that's just the religious medium of propaganda.

[@ijustwannaleaveacommentony6511]

i like michael, he seems a little bored of getting lectured to by jordan. i like jordan too,

[@notloki3377]

micheal seemed quite interested and engaged.

[@TheMacister]

JBP is in his core… a teacher.. so everyone know that they are getting is a free lecture. 😊

[@randywaldron2715]

Okay, so Jordan Peterson is not only wrong about politics, about where human morality comes from, about religion and the Western tradition, but also about the Enlightenment. He's consistent, at least.

[@justanobserver8283]

I know, it's frustrating that he's right.

[@S.J.L]

The Abrahamic religions were wrong about God and religion.

[@yew2oob954]

Maybe...but The Enlightenment was right about Truth, Reality, and Morality.

[@siggyincr7447]

Man he loves to make absolute statements about his opinions.

[@mosin9105]

Thanks

[@dion6146]

Wow.

[@mariadelcarmenmiranda2499]

Words express time-honoured wisdom.Words create reality. Christ was the Word of God made flesh. The etimology of words can help us conceptualize.Let's take the word RELIGION for instance. RELIGION from Latín RELIGO: BOND, RELATIONSHIP, FRIENDSHIP, FELLOWSHIP. RELIGARE: TO BIND, TO CONNECT, TO LINK, TO ASSOCIATE, TO BRING TOGETHER It is us, límited,flawed, human beings who have misconstrued the CONCEPT OF RELIGION and turned it into a source of HATRED AND DIVISION and just like Adam in the garden ended up putting thr blame for that on God and religion itself

[@ejenkins4711]

Wrong way to look at IT The enlightenment wasnt so light in comparisio

[@antiochiaadtaurum3786]

it didn't want therapy, it can't face itself

[@michaelyork4554]

If we do not have salvation in Christ Jesus, then all of our labors which are sacrificial, and provide us with what the world defines as a loss, and unsuccessful, then we are only pitiful fools by earthly standards. Since God knows our good works, done in love, we have merit of God, for our service, though in our lives we seek no reward, knowing that pleasing God is a greater reward. We cannot "earn" salvation, but our works done in love, and in service to Christ, which please The Father, are transcendent, and though they have no merit or worth in the world, they are our precious sacrifice to God. Without the transcendent, our sacrifices account for very little to the world as it is. I don't sacrifice for others, to gain reward, I do it because it is righteous, and proper.

[@IAMLiamwalker4444]

The (Nirguna Brahman)Self Alone is, That Pure Awareness with Form and qualities is the Supreme Personality(Saguna Brahman, God) whether manifest in the Form of Jesus, Krishna, or whatever Avatar God desires to manifest in. All Creation is really nothing other than The Lord’s Dream, a modulation of his Infinite Presence. God’s Being, The only Being(I AM)there is, That is-ness or Sat, Chit, Ananda is the Fabric Structure and essence of All individualized expressions of his One Formless Energy, Or Conscious Light which is taking the Form of All Sentient and insentient beings.

[@IAMLiamwalker4444]

God is Love. And Love must love. And to love there must be a Beloved. But since God is Existence infinite and eternal there is no one for Him to love but Himself. And in order to love Himself He must imagine himself as the Beloved whom He as the Lover imagines He loves.

[@IAMLiamwalker4444]

And it That way we can have a relationship with God❤, We are One Love, appearing to be a Lover and a Beloved

[@vivachristorey7622]

So is the man in love with his wife, or with his perception of her (recognizing that some of her is not known to her) ?

[@michaelgirodat6955]

No man is an island. Short version.

[@incaseinever]

😶‍🌫️..i...from the couch...have nothing to add😅

[@familyshield6405]

I'm too, men 😂

[@timothypye901]

"The Enlightenment was wrong." 🤣😂🤣

[@tgrogan6049]

Not a personal God!

[@johnnyllooddte3415]

well duhhhh

[@peterhobday]

If hell exists and we know it does, then heaven exists, and it's worth working for. But you probably have to work for a long time. Hard work.

[@SLAM2977]

Why is Peterson assuming that Pinker doesn't enjoy his day to day work ? Many people passionate about their work do....

[@jimmiferfreddette8583]

He’s not saying he doesn’t enjoy his work, just, the reason he claims to enjoy it is silly

[@kevivsinha5128]

Peterson saying that 'highest form of value being nothing or fragmented is not helpful so it should be rejected' is totally his opinion (not a given truth). Just presenting things emotionally doesn't makes the enlightenment argument any weaker. And by defining that 'all good one partakes in is god' leaves out a lot.

[@valhalla_1129]

I think what he's saying in that last part you mentioned isn't "all good one partakes in is god" isn't meant to define god as a sentient being OR trying to diminish the fact that religious people do bad things. I think it's more-so that the proper alignment with the concept of a highest good that we can all agree on is exactly how we should define god, and generally even if you listen to people who have radically different opinions on topics they usually agree on the core. Like, take a moderate left leaning person (like myself) and a moderate right leaning person. I think life is precious but abortion should be legal. It should be legal and rare, to be exact. Maybe a conservative doesn't want abortion to be legal for the same reason that I think it should be. We both value human life, but that doesn't mean the way I go about achieving that will be the same way someone else does and vice versa. But if the general concept of "we both want what's best for people" is out there and we take each other in good faith and assume the other person is truly trying to help, well then what we're doing is exactly what Peterson said. We're trying to talk to a transcendental version of the other person who we must believe is trying to do the right thing to truly talk about the topic and it goes from being about who is morally right or evil or mean to who might be having the best solution to a problem that exists.

[@politicz1973]

It's called the relational cause that is above and through all other causes explored in Aristotle's other four causes. I wrote about this in my essays at Notre Dame Fremantle in 2012 on the work of the Spirit. Today's struggle is that between being led by the Spirit of God and being led by the spirit of Baal Hammon was walking hand in hand with the spirit of Haman demanding more human sacrifices. Hence the union between the left and conservation and Hamas/Muslim Brotherhood etc. Amos 3:3-8-Jn 21 talk about the all pervasive power of the relational cause; "Can two wall together unless they are agreed." (Amos 3:3) The relational cause involves the struggle of entrapment & pairing passages/narratives above and through all that is the struggle of good and evil.

[@claudiamanta1943]

3:53 I thought you loved Tammy. Obviously not. ‘Higher spirit’ 🙄 really?… projection and sublimation is not love.

[@henpines]

wordsalad nonsense

[@Jerry-u3v]

Except it makes perfectly tangible sense to me and others. My friend, there isn’t a need to disrespect an idea because you personally can’t understand it yet.

[@henpines]

​@user-md2iy6gq5f if you can't explain It simply, you don't understand it well enough, or you are just talking nonsense. At least, recognize that that sounds so implausible and confusing. The enlightmen were right, God is dead, just put in its place the values that are more convenient for society and mankind. Don't use cristians people to get views and likes. Peterson is no cristian.

[@Jerry-u3v]

@@henpines Speak with humility on what you don’t understand. You’re not in a mood to listen charitably at the moment. Meditate a little on the philosophy of Parmenides or something and get a feel for transcendence. It’s not a superficial notion that’s explained in simple propositional language. It is however simple but deep. Ask which assumptions youre making, making this more complex than it has to be. I suspect youre using the wrong tools. Driving for hours on the road and expecting to go to the moon.

[@bradleymarshall5489]

He makes this far more difficult than it needs to be

[@18mvo]

Yea it's interesting

[@vmasing1965]

You can say that, yes. Then again, he's for the very specific audience. Intelligent and highly educated people who's heads are screwed on completely backwards.

[@bradleymarshall5489]

@@vmasing1965 Most serious intellectuals I follow think he’s a either a hack or extremely problematic

[@kennethalbert4653]

If you could simplify it for us it would be very helpful.

[@bradleymarshall5489]

@@kennethalbert4653 why the enlightenment is wrong about God? That’s easy 1. They start with a false conception of reason which necessarily leads to ideology as Hume demonstrated (not all of the enlightenment thinkers were bad) and 2 they started with thinking (epistemology) but being precedes thinking which is how you can know God exists (de ente argument)

[@mrshankerbillletmein491]

The enlightenmet sounds good like woke

[@joel4535]

negotiations

[@williamgreenfield9991]

The pomposity of Peterson thinking he is even in the same ballpark as the brilliant philosophers of the Enlightenment is staggering. Sorry Jordy Boy, but you aren't worthy to hold Voltaire's pipe and slippers. Stop making yourself look ridiculous. It's getting to be an annoying habit of yours.

[@siggyincr7447]

While I think he's speaking with far more authority than he warrants here, you're essentially just making an appeal to authority with your comment. It's actually not that difficult to make valid criticisms of the great thinkers of the past as people with the benefit of centuries of civilizational development after the fact. You need not be a greater thinker than they were in order to critic them.

[@maribethcondrillon1079]

I have later for elon breaking up its okay he is not deserve for me ❤

[@Thewonderingminds]

Jordan never mind biblical verbiage now, enough of such equivocal narratives. Please explain in your eloquent manner how that soccer player Ronaldo, I think, got one single year contract with the Saudis for a mere 360 million dollars to show nothing other than to kick an air filled ball.

[@ninatrabona4629]

Hierarchy of needs? History as cycle?

[@throckmortensnivel2850]

For an entertaining few minutes, turn off the sound, and don't use subtitles. I find Peterson makes more sense that way. If you actually listen to his words, well...

[@MOMASEUmigo]

The Enlightment made the internet possible so Jordan Peterson could spew out his garbage to the masses!

[@claudiamanta1943]

3:11 Why are you ignorant? It was the Ancient Egyptians who posited the unity (no, not Akhenaten), but their worldview and religions are way too sophisticated for anybody else’s mind. As for unity… you don’t have any Hindu followers, do you?

[@dannyharvanek3908]

The the enlightenment was the absence of the trinity

[@theronwolf3296]

He points out problems, but then assumes that 'god and religion' , actually which seems to magically correspond to the particular 'god' that he believes is the answer. Religion can have a function (byproduct of our evolution, actually), by stabilizing a culture to be more resilient to attack... but that 'works' for a large variety of 'gods' and religions. The gods in question do not need to actually exist (and most likely they do not)

[@gzoechi]

The question is what "exists" mean. When God is "the knowledge about how to live a life that's worth living or perhaps the best possible life", does God then exist or not. That God is an entity with an agenda is just complete nonsense.

[@kennethalbert4653]

Uh, no. He comes to it through reason and you have to actually demonstrate where his reasoning is incorrect or another alternative, not just an ambiguous, "he's wrong ". I'm not saying he is correct but you have only given a vague dismissal which is worthless.

[@drooskie9525]

Christianity is the only one giving any coherent answer that's any bit sophisticated. And quite frankly, given out utterly pervasive Christianity is, and how much its framed our sense of the world as we know it and shaped history to such a extent that you basically can't analyze history without referencing Christ and the causal links that stretches back to him, it's not a bad idea to re-asses it. Cultural stability is hardly the only argument and it's really a weird, niche one that is very post-enlightenment utilitarian way of thinking. Do you want to participate in reality? Christianity is your best option. Or, would you rather go the Descartes route (Cartesian Rationalism) that we currently live in, where instead of participating in and discovering reality, we see it as mere representation and we build a conception of reality and measure it against the standard of subjective certitude (which is literally the sin of pride in philosophical articulation).

[@theronwolf3296]

@@drooskie9525 Christianity is one mental framework. Which works in a way to a person pursuing it. But a Buddhist, or a Muslim, or a Jew and hundreds of others will frame the situation also within belief structure. Not necessarily a problem, but there is a lot of mythology in every religion (and philosophy as well). That is the reality.

[@drooskie9525]

@@theronwolf3296 So... the reality is that there is different perspectives? I mean, yeah. Though, Buddhists, Muslims, Jews and Hindu's also speak of much the same God. I.e. the source of all being, not merely "a god" (though they recognize those too, as do Christians)

[@paulkiernan3256]

"The fundamental mode of himan apprehension is relationship:": JP. Setms yrue intuitively but how could uou day yhis in other words? We learn through family, community and covilizayion'? We are sicual animals so we fundamwntaly learn/apprehend dthrough shared values and culture not only science? So our post christian nations are ideologicaly disarmed and vaccuous. No viable alternative in place. Hell ahead?

[@madolinereed8885]

Jordan is a dualist

[@iohuynh778]

A clinical psychologist has a brilliant mind of man but is foolishly knowledgeable about theology, "God/gods." I really like his arguments; however, he ignored the factual history of (1) slaves becoming a nation called Israel and denied the Bible text as an authentic document. Just like any modern atheist scientist, God/gods is a thing that thrives on psychological mysticism. (2) Jesus, a brilliant man in psychology, used the guilts and substitutions of sins to intertwine to pull off a Christian religion. For short, therefore, since Peterson denied (1), so (2) and all other Christians's beliefs about Jesus are delusional. I don't know much about Peterson's exposure to "theology" and his concept of "God/gods" or when and from which religious literature(s) he acquired the knowledge.

[@GottfriedLeibnizYT]

BS.

[@Wingedmagician]

source?

[@incaseinever]

I think JP said the source is God.. and the unity..😅

[@travisscott5422]

It's got a Daily wire watermark. I'd imagine it's one of their members only lectures. JP has lots of content on there.

[@notloki3377]

within and without...

[@Vykke]

​@@incaseineveroh my gosh

[@Fuzcapp]

I got distracted - did he say "fundamental" or "fundamentally" ???

[@kennycarmody3d]

Literally can’t listen to this guy anymore… This individual thinks he is some sort of messiah… Never heard a human being who is talking and confirming this nonsense with saying…. Right right right

[@garrettramirez428]

What drugs is he on now, do you think?

[@cosmicprison9819]

I could respect conservatives much more if you stopped using elusive terms like “god”, “good”, or “truth” and instead clearly establish the reference on which you base your suggestions: survival (own-group or global), well-being, or freedom. In other words: *life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness.* You can’t serve all three at the same time. Especially in the time of political converts (including atheists like Hirsi-Ali and Dawkins), a lot of conservatives now seem to treat religion as a tool to serve one of these three values.

[@vmasing1965]

You're so confused... Here's a scientific theory for you. Imagine, just for a moment, that those people _mean_ exactly what they say? No? That too far?

[@cosmicprison9819]

@@vmasing1965 The words “good” and “bad” are meaningless without a reference. Good for what? For what purpose? If people cannot name this purpose, it shows they’ve never thought about other perspectives of what can be constituted as “good” or “bad”, depending on the reference you apply. Instead, they treat their own personal idea of purpose as synonymous to what’s “good”. Notably, Peterson himself has always argued for “being concise in your speech”; yet, when it matters, he uses a bunch of complicated words to beat around the bush.

[@gzoechi]

You can serve all three st once. It's all about orienting yourself. Concentrating on what you can influence. If you need to change the outside world to achieve any of these, you are on the wrong path.

[@vmasing1965]

@@cosmicprison9819 "Good" in this context means just the general direction. Away from death, suffering and destruction. The context _is_ the reference. Some people always fall off the sledge and find themselves unable to understand the context. Why is this now everybody else's fault? When generic terms are needed then generic terms are used. When more specific items are discussed then more specific terms are used. That's how this works. You have all those great proposals to use different terms, how about you tell us simple uneducated people, your better word we should use instead of God? By the way, it's not lost on anyone how you're purposefully using the lower case there. Oh, you know, those are all just made up terms anyway, we can replace then with some other technocratic crap and nothing will be lost. Yea sure thing, buddy... You pretend to have an intellectual discussion but it's obvious you can barely contain the boiling rage.

[@cosmicprison9819]

@@vmasing1965 You said “away from death, suffering, and destruction”. Here you’re already stepping into the contradiction I outlined about “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”. Because Peterson for one will agree that life is suffering. So you can’t orient yourself “towards life” and “away from suffering” at the same time. In promoting life, you’re inevitably also promoting suffering. Also, the pursuit of happiness is often framed by Peterson & Co. as hedonism - and is thus once again put in opposition of what sustainably promotes life. This is already difficult enough to disentangle as it is; using generic placeholder terms only muddies the waters and obfuscates things even further.

[@18mvo]

😂

[@alijames180]

No one likes being preached to Jordan. Do start to become too self important because of your fame.

[@bigtomboye]

Hm i find him enthusiastic and excited here🤔 But i don't really know 🤔

[@Frankenstein-sc8rc]

why is it wrong to express oneself. Especially in a way that is for good purposes, it is the others persons ego that is in the way of facing what could be a truth.

[@johnloving9401]

I seem to have missed the preaching part.

[@Vagabond824]

This is a dumb and off the mark take.

[@vmasing1965]

You have been preached by every college professor and every Hollywood movie for decades. But you were too dumb to notice. Now you suddenly noticed there's a change in ideas being pushed. What you're saying is let me keep my old religion. Sure, be my guest. Just don't lie to yourself about being oh so rational and independent.