Jordan Peterson - What Made Harry Potter, LotR and The Hobbit so Successful?

original source: • 2016 Personality Lectu...
When your culture isn't providing you rich stories of that sort derived from your tradition, something has to fill that gap.
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[@paultuck558]

Dr Peterson always mixes up Bilbo and Frodo to check whether his students are paying attention.

[@liamlemkinanderson6512]

To make it look as if he hasn't read the book like 100 times...

[@Georgexb]

As a LotR nerd, I’ll add a little of the myth to expand on what Dr Peterson was saying for anyone interested: The point about Gandalf as a God like character is actually addressed by Tolkien. Gandalf (as well as Sauron for that matter) are Maia spirits- with their closest reflections in Christian mythology being angels. However, the Bible is woven even more deeply into LotR, as there are three characters that represent Christ: - Frodo represents the burden that Christ carried (the ring) - Aragorn represents the poor man (Aragorn starts out as a ‘ranger’) who is actually the rightful King of men - Gandalf, like Jesus is sent to guide men and the other peoples of Middle Earth. He also dies and is reborn, just as Christ is. In fact, the resurrection of Gandalf (which is undertaken by Eru, the Tolkien equivalent of an omnipotent God) mirrors that of Jesus in that he only returns for a short time to finish his task before returning to Heaven (Valinor in this case) It is also my belief that the Fall is represented in Tolkien (you have to read the Silmarillion for this). The once great Kingdom of men- Numenor strays from the path of good laid out by the gods. Eru punishes them by sinking their kingdom underwater. Men paid for this by over the years becoming weaker and shorter lived, all until Aragorn comes, the rightful King sent to redeem men.

[@toothfairy5352]

A movie loved by Atheists is about the story of Christ. Chuckles.

[@sadhu7191]

The great flood myth all over world even subconsciously. Then Randall Carlson sees evidence huge flood 12000 years ago. Whats going on here

[@drgoldman2906]

only that tolkin did not base himself on the christian faith but on the legends of northern europe and greek mythology

[@TomorrowWeLive]

Gandalf is a Maia, a sort of lesser order of Angel, who has been sent to Middle-earth by the Valar- a higher order of Angel who govern the world on behalf of Eru (God). So not exactly God, but an emissary of the Gods. Also, I wish Dr. Peterson would do an in-depth analysis of the Lord of the Rings, the way he did with the Bible. It merits it.

[@SanguineUltima]

I couldn't agree more.

[@donaldotterson1714]

I wonder how much Tolkien read Jung and Neitzche. Cause it seems he was attempting to recreate a meta-narrative that they said had been lost. An insane goal, but amazingly done. Heres some food for though kzbin.info/www/bejne/omfSmWRqq8uboqs

[@herc358]

Tolkien said “The Lord of the Rings is a wholly Catholic work”. Therefore the Bible is woven into the story quite brilliantly throughout.

[@TheClassicWorld]

@@herc358 Of course, it's not just that, and The Hobbit is even less of a Catholic work. A lot of Norse and British folklore in there, too, along with the human condition itself, so, not just the Bible or Catholicism. It's deeper than that, in a sense, and that's what makes it so universal and why it's the best-selling novel of all time.

[@vishvnaik2756]

And game of thrones

[@fuckyougeorgebush]

I'd argue that we are deprived of such stories because they potentially help us see ourselves as the hero.

[@Felix-pax]

Thanks for saying it. That may be it.

[@Sanguiluna]

On the contrary, the "democratization of the hero" is actually a fairly modern convention of the 20th-21st century. The traditional notion of the hero had long that of someone to be inspired by, but never to actually become-- they were always either a prophesied savior (e.g. Christ), a child of the divine (Hercules) or even actually divine himself (again, Christ), or a being chosen by destiny or by the cosmos (David, Samson, Arthur). This notion that even a simple nobody could potentially become a hero _without_ being special or chosen, having special or divine parents, or having a prophecy written about their birth--that ANYONE can be a hero simply through determination and choosing to be--is one of the newer evolutions of the notion of the hero. It's not coincidence that Bilbo and Frodo Baggins, Luke Skywalker (at least before the prequels), Harry Potter, Katniss Everdeen, or Rey are all products of 20th or 21st century storytelling.

[@sadhu7191]

Randall Carlson shows evidence of a great flood 12000 years ago....

[@BrandonSchleifer]

The Phoenix also blinds the Basalisk, which protects Harry from the risk of being petrified by it's gaze.

[@23wtb]

When did storytelling turn from heroes being competent, capable people who spent their lives improving themselves and who seek out things to challenge themselves, to bumbling, reluctant, accidental dopes who have an adventure fall on their heads as fate drags them forward against their will?

[@Fincarn5]

There have always been stories like that, but roughly speaking (hehehe), after the Romans/Greeks, while in classical mythology the heroes were sons of gods, physically perfect and confident, the anti-hero (as in the classical anti-hero, not the modern interpretation) was the opposite, mundane, insufficient and plagued with self-doubt. Over time people related more to the classical anti-hero because any honest person can see his own defects and how he falls short of being an ideal hero. The point of those stories is that despite how insufficient you are in your present condition, the potential to be a hero exists within each and every one of us if we are ready to make the correct sacrifices, now that is more easily said than done, however. Its the difference between Superman and Batman, Superman is the ideal hero to the extreme, invincible, confident and few weaknesses, Batman is the hero that has been hurt, completely mundane and many times is shown to not be a perfect human being (his exact flaws vary with the author but they are there). There is a reason why people relate more to Batman.

[@23wtb]

I'm not talking about flaws--I don't think anyone needs to be told what it is about flawed heroes that people find appealing--I'm talking about the completely passive protagonist who reacts to the entire meat of the story, the adventure, as a burden and a chore. The hero who not only hasn't done anything to earn the opportunity to do heroic things, but continues to muddle forward under duress, squandering their "chosen one" status. This seems to be the prevailing type too, no work, all reward.

[@Fincarn5]

That is because usually, people don't just travel trying to solve problems that are unrelated to them. Usually, because they themselves are all too aware of their own flaws and know that they just as likely to make things worse before they get better or are so tangled up with their own problems that they cant focus on something unrelated to them, which is understandable, and stories reflect this. Now I do not see the opportunity to be heroic as a reward in and of itself. That is because usually to be a hero there must be something wrong, seriously wrong going on that needs to be addressed, and the hero more often than not suffers because of it. Using the Harry Potter example, Harry had to go the nest of the basilisk, get mortally wounded and half dead to be the hero of that book, being saved almost by dumb luck. LOTR is more of the same, Frodo not only lost his finger but had to endure hunger, the temptations of the ring and in the books never truly recovers from when the Nazgul stab him at the beginning of his journey, and the wound is so disturbing to him that is the main reason for him to leave Sam and go into the undying lands. That is hardly no work, all reward.

[@user-sx5kx3pq2i]

Fincarn well put

[@ETBrooD]

William Burr To your second comment: It has always been this way. 90% of everything is crap.

[@michaelhathaway496]

Ginny = Virginia 🤯

[@defaultuser9423]

Ginevra actually

[@SlayPlenty]

Sex

[@NichtNameee]

Virginia and Cockorot

[@martin.pokorny]

I would say it is only a similarity. "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" hahaha

[@joeyacmilan]

I love this man

[@bid1998]

Dear Bite-sized Philosophy crew, I’ve recently took the intuitive to start a club in my school. When I joined college in September of 2017, I wanted to join a philosophy club of some sort. Unfortunately I found out that are no clubs like that. So I’ve decided to create one. I was just wondering if it would be possible to use the name “bite-sized philosophy club” as our club name? I completely understand if I am not allowed but regardless thank you for taking the time to read my comment.

[@TomFranklinX]

Bidzina Mosiashvili The name is not trademarked, unless you plan on using it for a similar business like a podcast or a channel, there shouldn't be any problem

[@MaskofPoesy]

Ginerva -> Virgin blew my mind honestly.

[@mtp1213]

You all should check out the mistborn series of books. Just as good as LotR and Harry Potter. Great fantasy series

[@RicoCilliers]

I've read them. absolutely the best thing after LotR imho

[@johncarton3023]

awesome. thank you for the recommendations.

[@horacefairview5349]

Read the first one, then stop. The rest are pretty terrible.

[@devinvanleeuwen1671]

@@horacefairview5349 nah that's just ur opinion I loved them all. The first is more of a heist book and more YA, the second is more political and the third is a mix of political, and war. The last two are harder reads tgo bc they are a lot more adult and yes if u arent into that stuff that's okay but personally I loved them, especially the second. Call me crazy but I loved the way we got to see Elend change and the schematics of dealing with a new political system after thousands of years of their aristocracy or caste system.

[@Lisa_MS64]

Harry Potter was based on every child's fantasy that the horrible, people they live with aren't really their family and someday they'll be rescued by their true parents (or their minions) who are rich superheroes.

[@bilalkhares9337]

As a kid I always found it strange that dragons hoard gold because it's not like dragons trade lol

[@charlescharliecharlotte]

😂😂

[@thornynettles]

Ginny Weasley comes from Ginevre, the French form of Jennifer, or the Guinevere to Harry's Arthur. Not Virginia. But at age 12 presumably also a virgin.

[@Last_Order14]

What's the word Ginny from... Ginger?🤔

[@1662ninja]

Verginius (springlike, flourishing). JP has said in vidoes it comes from Virgin, since the woman who gets kidnapped in the St. George story is in fact one.

[@SanguineUltima]

1:00 Apparently Dr. Peterson is not a huge fan of LotR- heh.

[@FF-oo8nz]

Archetypes, thats why

[@jamesgreenldn]

British authors wrote them!

[@Ficojepet]

didn't you say you were planning to upload clips of other people as well? whatever happened to that?

[@BitesizedPhilosophy]

Hi, I said that I want to finish going through all lectures first, before I start venturing into other things, so yes you are right, but the time hasn't come yet. I also spent many hours into looking into suitable material and material which I am allowed to re-upload legally, so it's quite a challenge, but I hope I find something once I consider the Peterson material as completed. What I know is that I certainly don't want it to be too political, even though I follow politics quite a bit. While I will continue to let my own interests be the guide for this channel, I am curious what you would like to see? Suggestions can lead me to things that I haven't considered properly yet, so let me know!

[@Ficojepet]

I honestly dunno to be honest, nothing really comes to my mind following Jordan Peterson the one thing I always thought he was missing was non-duality but topic so treacherous and slippery, delivered in a bite-sized fashion smells of a disaster I was hoping you would have some interesting people, with new ideas and all I love Jordan Peterson but I swear with every new clip I feel like I already heard him saying the same thing on like at least 5 other occasions I don't even click on the videos anymore I just read the title and go "yep, I know the exact thing he's going to say"

[@JamesCarmichael]

Now go watch Gender Wars: The Last Jedi and tell me what that is all about. People wonder why there's a big backlash against it. Well it's no mystery when you have a little think about it.

[@user-sx5kx3pq2i]

James Carmichael lol

[@MrYASpizza]

100% No meaning to be found with postmodernists

[@TheClassicWorld]

Maybe that's why the only meaning I have heard about it is the anti-capitalist theme and 'depth' in The Last Jedi? The work is either terrible or you are hopeless if the only thing you can say about it is that it's anti-capitalist and only at the surface level, too, no depth at all. Of course, they also point to the anti-hero nature of the main bad fellow and the connection between him and the leading character, but that's pretty surface-level, too. Not nearly as deep or profound as they claim. Then again, these people tend to love and find great 'depth' in the Game of Thrones and The Hunger Games, but don't care for The Hobbit or other deep works. Bloody post-modernists, they wouldn't know genius or true depth if it hit them in the face.

[@horacefairview5349]

Ginevra

[@inkterp5322]

Not particularly fond of jordan peterson but this was an interesting take

[@mrMacMilli2000]

Biblical Story ...

[@thehydrostore380]

He doesn’t understand The Lord Of The Rings. Hobbits are smart 🤦‍♂️

[@defaultuser9423]

Lord of the Rings is much superior to Harry Potter. It's a shame Dr Peterson doesn't spend more time analyzing Tolkien. More wisdom in it than Dostoyevski and Jung combined.

[@AliyahDayeVocals]

THIS x THIS x THIS = THIS!

[@AliyahDayeVocals]

Oh true...but better than Harry Potter in my estimation.

[@Greyfoxdbz18]

Personally I got much more enjoyment out of Harry Potter. I didn't even finish the books. the films are god tier.

[@AliyahDayeVocals]

I don't know about OP, but I'm not referring to "enjoyment" -- I'm talking depth and quality of overall mythos surrounding each world. HP isn't bad, and it is certainly more appealing to the youth of today and therefore I understand why JP fixates on it more than LOTR. Also he apparently isn't that familiar with it - I would say Gandalf is more like a Prophet of the Bible, not God himself.

[@Greyfoxdbz18]

@ShadowLeafAliyah My enjoyment comes from the depth and quality of the overall mythos of harry potter. And HP does cater to that feeling of wanting to stick your teeth into something and only come up when you know absolutely everything about it. Tolkien tended to prattle on a little too much for my liking to the point where it felt like you were reading a history book. Also peterson never said gandalf was a god himself. He said he was like a god. alluding to the fact that he was wise beyond measure and had abilities that were well above that of everyone else. I love the lord of the rings movies, and I know tolkien built a rich universe because I have often googled the things that i find interesting that aren't fully explained in the movies, but I did find that I kept losing attention when reading his books while harry potter had me gripped until I was done. one of those personal preference things I suppose.