Does God Prefer the Non-Believer Who Does Good?

[@jamesdelap4085]

"To be is to do". . .Aristotle. "To do is to be". . .Sartre. "Do be do be do". . . Sinatra.

[@leanncrittendon3673]

now let's try Genesis and how God created everything...Be Do HAVE

[@home8630]

To be or not to be, that is the question? Shakespeare Do be a good bee, dont be a bad bee. Mr Do bee - Romper Room

[@Ariel-sv9de]

To be is to do... is God To do is to be... is man

[@AigleAquilin-fv4kj]

😂

[@anthonygeorge4011]

"Do be Do be Do bop". . . A. Gent. P.

[@liamdegnan5949]

We're saved by faith, not by works. But NOT faith in the absence of works. Faith without works is dead. This is the same in the OT and the NT. It says that Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness. But his belief ultimately overflowed into an unwavering commitment to follow and obey the words of God - even when asked to sacrifice his son, who was received by faith. The question in the video is a hard one, but it cuts to the root of how you find balance in your relationship with God. Without faith, it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6). Even our works are frequently corrupted by selfishness. We live righteously not because we love God, or because we desire to serve him, but because we want to earn something for ourselves. Or maybe it is motivated by fear. And there is no fear in love. But when you come to God with a heart that trusts him, and believes the words that he says, and accepts that his blood was poured out for you.... It releases you from all of that. Your works are no longer about yourself. They are an expression of your faith in something greater than yourself. That is what brings transformation.

[@phetmoz]

The works play no part in acheiving salvation. Only faith. The works come naturally as fruit, but they are not in anyway the root of faith or salvation. They can be evidence of faith for other men, but the works themselves or in combination with faith in not what saves.

[@SamuelWeigel]

​@@phetmoz Then why does the Bible say faith without works is dead?

[@phetmoz]

@@SamuelWeigel kzbin.infovsxil2-xqbI?si=rAs-1tZ9Lg-LEfhR

[@wintermooonwolf]

@@phetmoz ...that is your interpretation....the over one billion do not see it that way...

[@SamuelWeigel]

@phetmoz I agree, your works prove your faith. Obedience to Christ is necessary to be saved.

[@jackcampbell3133]

Missing the point here guys. The Gospel is about the heart and your works performed with selfish intent are rejected by God while your works that are motivated by Love and SELF LESS NESS are what Glorify God.

[@firstorder438]

Ding ding ding a bunch of pagans trying to explain the Gospel this is painful and embarrassing to listen to.

[@justinalejandro3126]

@@jackcampbell3133 romans 13:8-10 Love Fulfills the Law.

[@AdamLW01]

The problem with this according to the Bible is that we are corrupt; it's practically impossible for us not to sin, or act selfishly in our works, and so trust in Jesus Christ comes first and foremost as he died for our sins. This fixes the problem stemming from the Old Testament, where arguably good people who spent their entire lives proclaiming the gospel and doing good things were punished by God for acting selfishly and being unrepenting, despite their long life of good works. Therefore, it seems that the only "safe" way to truly glorify God would be to put trust in Christ first, *then* perform works motivated by love and selflessness.

[@billbrown1353]

What scriptural reference do you have for “works performed with selfish intent are rejected by God”? “…for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.” ‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11‬:‭6‬ ‭KJV Believing that God “is a rewarder” is “pleasing” to God. In addition, every biblical warning against sin, is literally warning the reader to take “selfish” care lest he be “rewarded” with punishment.

[@billbrown1353]

@@AdamLW01 it’s extremely important that people be more specific regarding to “trust” in Jesus. We are trusting Jesus to “do” certain things, lots of things. As a point of emphasis a human needs Jesus to take away / cover sins (1John3:5, 1Peter4:8) AND connect / add a completed righteousness (Rom5:19;Gal3:27). I often hear people talk about trusting in Jesus as though believing he existed is the “trust”.

[@PescadoDelDiablo]

Don’t fall into the trap of Cain. He conducted his sacrifices in a transactional manner believing that because he offered up X amount of goods, it would suffice to please God. Abel gave up what was most valuable to himself with faith that it was for the greater good. Thus, God showed favor to Abel because of the spirit in which he performed his works.

[@Sacrifice.Online.for.Offline]

Computation

[@DLac99]

@@castusaquila4306😂

[@DLac99]

I think this is the right take @pescadoDelDiablo

[@BeauUnderGrace]

@@PescadoDelDiablo Abel was righteous because he brought the blood of the Lamb, a picture of the Blood of Christ. What can wash my sin away? Nothing but the blood of Jesus...

[@MusicBlik]

True, but also, I believe that God _requested_ that Cain and Abel sacrifice the firstlings of the flock--that just like the later sacrifices of Abraham and the Mosaic Law, it was intended to prefigure the death of the Savior. Cain thought he could do better than God requested, and in his hubris he lost God's favor. See 1 Samuel 13:7-14 and 15:1-26 for comparable situations.

[@CarlosCruz-m8v]

I was thinking about this the other day. Rheres a pasage that says something like: The heavens rejoice when a siner changes his ways than when 99 believers do good.' Of course im paraphrasing, And i thought that was so harsh and some what kills your motivation, knowing that the good of heart and those who try to walk the narrow path are more attacked than those who dont. But then i thought Why? And the conclusion i landed in at was, When 99 good people do good, the World stays the same. But when a siner does good and decides to change his ways the Wolrd gets less bad and to those who are doing good the burden lessens.

[@sebwoz8766]

Interesting thought.

[@Kevin-sr8yx]

Good thought. Would you rather 99 people made the world minutely better or prevent 1 person from death? The 1 person’s life is worth more than anything we can do.

[@inspiringmedia3716]

X

[@nicewhenearnedrudemostlyel489]

​@@Kevin-sr8yxthat is a terrible sideways step that defeats the purpose. Their life isn't what's important... it's a gift, and WILL be given back... what condition it's in when they hand it back is what's important. As in, what you DO with the time you have is what matters, not the length of time you had to do it.

[@FFNOJG]

It has to do with the parable of the lost lamb. He already has the one doing good. He will not be forced at the end of the age to send them off to endless suffering. He is no longer worried, and weeping endlessly over the do holder as he still loves the sinner the exact same, and it hurts him to hurt the sinner. So whenever a sinner changes. It is SO much more joyous of an occasion of an occasion for him.

[@justinalejandro3126]

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

[@HonestBottom]

@justinalejandro3126 ...At which point I check out; I live by Christian principles without believing in God. Darnit

[@regeneratus-l2w]

Amen

[@terrorists-are-among-us]

I just scrolled past someone that quoted it out of context. Of course 🤮

[@JasonPruett]

i dont expect a reward anymore. i just do what i've been told

[@ForesCanada-e5k]

If you have faith you will do the works. That's the point. You cannot find one person who TRULY believes and Christ, but don't feed his sheep, but don't cloth the naked, but don't help the poor. When a human being truly believes in something, thet believe is evident in his actions even if he himself doesn't notice

[@fatalheart7382]

Well done. Well said. The thief on the cross had nothing to give, but himself: "Remember me when you come into your kingdom."

[@D-777i]

2:29 - "Put everything you have behind everything you do" That's a great aphorism to live by.

[@regeneratus-l2w]

No, because even the wicked and the evil can "put everything they have behind what they do." It is not simply your effort, but more importantly WHO you aim your effort at: "Whatever you do, do all to the glory of God." 1 Corinthians 10:31

[@David-dw2iq]

@@regeneratus-l2wyour spinning what he said. Obviously direction matters, but once direction is determined effort matter and it’s a good quote

[@justinhartnell6779]

You'll soon be exhausted.

[@illbeyourmonster5752]

@@regeneratus-l2w What of us who do good works for those/that which need help because we know that if we do not do them God wont either?

[@JaniceThompson228]

@@regeneratus-l2wAmen

[@Jude.Herring]

No one is righteous, someone can be more virtuous and act more morally, but no one is righteous, no one is above another in that sense, so faith is the ultimate testament

[@Cassander314]

This logic leads one to tolerate things they probably shouldn’t.

[@danielgomessilva8966]

Romans 2,:14-16 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

[@ghostfaceinspiration2780]

What amazes me with discussions like these in this format is the thought of what or who do you have to be in order to be invited to this half round table. Brilliant men.

[@duncanwalla7014]

To use Christian language for this analogy, if you are saved you will act saved. This is why it is said in shemot “נעשה ונישמע” or “we will do, and we will hear/understand.” It is in unity that your heart’s beliefs and your body’s deeds will be righteous, not opposition.

[@regeneratus-l2w]

No man can please God without faith in him. “And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.” Hebrews 11:6

[@georgeelvira551]

Understood, but what does the word "faith" mean? That same chapter in Hebrews goes on to describe the extreme faith displayed by actions. Faith by works as James would say. Mark 7:6 [6]He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me WITH THEIR LIPS, but their heart is far from me. I am not calling anyone a hypocrite, but merely referencing Messiah's words to show that words alone are not enough. Which is what I read Hebrews 11 as saying.

[@Les-i7e]

Rubbish.Some religios

[@guyfromaucklandnz]

Doing good for its own sake is true selflessness. Doing good because you want a reward is transactional by nature.

[@terrorists-are-among-us]

Which is why guys online freaking about getting to heaven is SO CRINGE 🤮

[@JasonPruett]

why promise me a reward then ? a +b = god owes me a great big apology

[@faithalonesaves]

The last guy said it best. Belief is trust not just assent. Not about behavior or obedience

[@UserBR-v6l]

You can't obey unless you believe. Try loving enemies without full trust in God and tell me how that went.

[@RM-jb2bv]

@@UserBR-v6lWho loves their enemies? Like 2 people. The last one I read about was a daughter who forgave her mothers murderer. And she lobbied for him to be released from prison and hired him to do work on her house. Then he killed her. Love your enemies. See how that works out.

[@faithalonesaves]

@@UserBR-v6l true. That doesn’t change the truth of what I said though.

[@UserBR-v6l]

@faithalonesaves You said belief isn't about obedience. It is. The disobedient are not saved.

[@blockchainbaboon7617]

Belief is trust in and commitment to Christ. Faith produces changes in behavior. Faith produces obedience. This is my current understanding lol

[@harderway8568]

Well can you imagine that, 2000. years later, people from all over the world gather at one place and discuss same old teachings that mean life to most of us. Just wonderful.

[@cowboyssawmillandwoodlot6343]

Jordan Christ was asked directly why He spoke in parables. The answer was that His Chosen ones will understand them. The perishing will not

[@mrman5066]

One could interpret that Calvinistically, or one could interpret that more simply; those who are already disposed to search for God will do so more successfully; like the Matthew principle found in Jesus' sermons. But an arbitrary unconditional election is a less nuanced interpretation. God can still enforce providence more highly than baseless arbitration.

[@cowboyssawmillandwoodlot6343]

@ how about interpreting that Biblically??

[@mrman5066]

@@cowboyssawmillandwoodlot6343 yeah I'm an aspiring Catholic who can actually get past the cognitive dissonance of the idea that the "Holy Spirit brings the correct interpretation to us"

[@cowboyssawmillandwoodlot6343]

@ find a Calvinistic church to actually see the difference

[@ronniebattle1310]

Jesus Encounter Ministries KZbin channel

[@johnwolfe1198]

Crazy how Bibleproject just went through the sermon on the mount and now JP is going through the gospels. Would be awesome to see Tim Mackie and JP talk ancient context and ancient truths through their mythology and stories

[@generose9083]

Not really that crazy

[@allvano]

How do you know what is good, if you do not know god?

[@Logan91S]

Is it possible for someone to know God better than a professing Christian? One man’s knowledge came from intellectual reading of the Bible. He knows a lot of information. Another man’s wisdom comes from a difficult life. He understands more.

[@JohnnyNada]

This is so silly

[@Michael-cb3uw]

God and divinity its all just a manmade story

[@JohnnyNada]

Religion is morally bad for a lot of people and makes them hateful and divisive. There were laws similar to the 10 commandments way before them. Everyone knows killing, stealing, fraud, lying is bad because you don't want it done to you and it's bad for society as a whole. Religion causes fear, guilt, hatred of other religions and sexual identifies and lifestyles etc

[@JohnnyNada]

What's bad is the genocide of the Bible, infant genital mutilation, homophobia, support of the genocide of Palestinians, religious wars, inquisition, emotional blackmail with hell, etc

[@Buddha.ThaGod]

Thank you for all you have done and continue to do, Brother!

[@cat_puncher8539]

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who draws near to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

[@KEVINMATHEW-nu8sv]

I wish Bishop Barron would get the chance to talk more. Jp should stop hogging the space

[@lucasanderson9143]

Jordan Peterson originally brought me to God, Christ connected me with god

[@DestinyAwaits19]

JP is the only guy with anything interesting to say about God.

[@UnworthyandGrateful]

This is a clip of a 2+ hour session lol just watch it all

[@judepagano159]

Respectfully, without JP this conversation likely wouldn’t be happening; let alone available for free for anyone to watch anytime

[@Datdankboi]

Peterson knows absolutely nothing about the Gospel. I can’t even listen to him talk about it. He starts blabbering about clinical psychology and seems afraid of the challenge of Jesus’ teachings.

[@mbgrafix]

_“Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit?"_ *-LUKE 6:39*

[@hildawilliamson6988]

This is husband to the picture.. We're just completing three years serving in East Africa as self-funded missionaries who read and operated as though Acts chapter 5 is still meaningful.. As grandparents, we now return to the US to start over with nothing, only the debt required to finish here as best we can, however imperfectly.. Judging from our limited perspectives, no matter how fulsomely degreed, experienced, erudite is problematic for all of us.. Good discussion, awesome discussion, but please bend down in the garden and get good soil into your fingernails again. That is the accumulated star-dust that God made us from. We cannot know what we are unequiped to know. Judgement must be God's because none of us has perspective great enough to comprehend even the intricacies of our own hearts let alone even one other person. Let God be God. We don't want that job. As Children.. Run with hands up in joy and trust to God as God's children.. No one else has truth big enough. Peace, Blessings, and thank you ever..

[@xrendezv0usx]

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest anyone should boast" - Ephesians 2: 8-9 "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" - Titus 3:5 "And without faith it is impossible to please God" - Hebrews 11:6

[@Kevin-sr8yx]

Belief is required for salvation. Works are required for faith.

[@joeobyrne9348]

Can you have belief without faith?

[@P.H.888]

Let’s listen to JESUS LIKE THE FATHER COMMANDS John 6 v 29 The Definitive Answer!

[@Kevin-sr8yx]

@@P.H.888So believe in Jesus and just wait for death?

[@billysolhurok5542]

Romans 2:12-16 deserves consideration,it fits this topic. Then also is the parable of the 'Good Samaritan'.

[@bobthrasher8226]

...add Rom 2:6,7

[@melissaaredfield5407]

A reminder for all of us: All if are probably more bad than good!! We lose our patience, we walk past litter on the ground, we look down on others (even if we mean it) we judge each other, we skip out on little things, we ALL have more stuff then we need, we spend more time being busy than time with God, we indulge, we waste………We do “good” maybe less then half the time!!! That is why Jesus came ❤️🤗 So we may life! God is great that way!!! He knows our hearts more than we ever could!!! Being good has absolutely nothing to do it. He wants our hearts and the fruits of the Spirit will naturally come out when God is part of your life. You will want to confess out loud when you know you hurt God, and you will try your best to stop or not do it again! You will want to thank Him everyday and you will start wanting less of fleshly desires, but want His!!!!

[@UserBR-v6l]

Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as Jesus is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil. 1 John 3:7-8 It doesn’t matter what we say. It's what we DO that reveals what we BELIEVE. And people will try to deceive us on this.

[@michaelchipwende931]

You can't be righteous or practice righteousness without Christ: Christ Jesus is righteousness itself. You deceive yourself if you think the other way round

[@HonestBottom]

So in that line of thought, if I act as a Christian without the belief / faith, does that make me worthy of saving? Christianity is quite confusing at times.

[@HonestBottom]

​@michaelchipwende931 So that requirement immediately makes me reject your religion, even though I follow the guidance of Christianity without the belief. I guess I'm doomed then, which seems silly. I'm but a simple human though.

[@lukefantini9770]

Perfectly said, someone who claims to believe in God, but acts in contradiction to that idea does not really believe in it.

[@HonestBottom]

@lukefantini9770 This is where I struggle, because I do live my life as a Christian, but without belief in God. It just naturally seems like the best way to be to me, but for whatever reason I have no faith. It causes me a bit of grief tbh

[@robenzos]

I love bishop Barron.

[@cal.5081]

Integrity is what's important.

[@bobthrasher8226]

Dennis is partly RIGHT! Rom 2:6,7 and John 5:28,29 say we will be judged by our works (many other passages support this). God first MAKES us righteous (the greek word translated "justify" literally means "to make righteous") when we are born again through faith so that we are "outfitted" to do good works - but it is our works, at the final Judgement, that are judged.

[@guyfromaucklandnz]

"Not all who say Lord, Lord will be saved." Very true.

[@brain1fluff]

The way it was explained to me is that I don't do good works, God does good works through me.

[@Simon_Alexnder]

So how do you explain good deeds by people who do not believe in Jesus' divinity or any of that stuff...

[@bobthrasher8226]

@@Simon_Alexnder The Scripture doesn't insist that non-Christians don't do good works. In fact, the first Gentile convert in Acts 10 had a reputation for good deeds and Peter said that "God accepts those who do what is right."

[@bobthrasher8226]

@@brain1fluff Maybe, but there's a of emphasis by Paul, Peter, and James on doing good works as though we are the initiators them.

[@vman9347]

Short answer is ur Works definitely matter. They validate ur faith, so without works you don’t even have faith no matter how much u profess to believe in Jesus

[@coondawg]

If you are counting on your works in any way, you aren't trusting in Christ alone. Our works are done of love not fear or to prove anything. Repent of dead works towards the gospel of grace

[@vman9347]

@ you missed the point. The Bible says faith without works is dead. So if all u have of faith and the lord but have no works you don’t even have faith. Ur faith is fake.

[@TheMetaHistory]

@@vman9347 Agreed

[@martanieradka4675]

Good works should be an act of gratitude to God! Not building one’s ego!

[@BJSal916]

I traveled to Los Angeles, @ the you tube theater. Great show sir! Appreciate your good works

[@Alex-trl]

One is a Christian at heart, the one who does good is more of a Christian than the one who remains evil although believes

[@s.r301]

Probably yes. All living beings are God's children whether or not they believe in God. And I do believe God would prefer good children who are non believers over bad children who are believers..

[@jmoore20121992]

“And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.” ‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11‬:‭6‬ ‭

[@MattisWell.20]

People who “don’t believe” and yet bear the fruits of the Spirit have more *faith* than people who “believe” and hardly bear the fruits of the Spirit at all.

[@MeatBlog]

Protestant liberalism nonsense.

[@everythingiscoolio]

This panel completely misses the point of the question. Very unfortunate.

[@johnnyzakka]

"..for they have received their reward in full"

[@bravowhiskey4684]

Both are required in the correct measure, but they are not mutually exclusive if you consider that all are children of the Most High. He likely prefers the conduct of the moral non-believer, but they will not be saved by their works alone. Likewise, the poorly behaved genuine believer will be saved by their belief and not condemned by their works. The caveat here is a genuine acceptance of Messiah, and not intentionally working things contrary to Him. You can be a lost fool, but you cannot be lawlessly evil. Both things must be in concert to please God. Faith without works is dead. Works without faith are fruitless. Works done in false pretense are no different than vanities, and result in a rebuke. Read Matthew chapter 7 for clarity on this matter.

[@dartskihutch4033]

Someone who calls themselves and believer, yet acts against their belief constantly and disregards the word of God and his teachings, is not much of a believer at all. Actions and their word must align. If you're a saint in your actions, yet don't believe in God, you are only doing it for yourself, yet if you say you believe in God, then do the opposite of what God commands of you, you are actively working against the God you claim to believe. Jesus died for our sins because even the believer who's action align with God can never act perfectly in God image. Jesus' sacrifice was not a free pass to do as you will. If you truly believe in your heart, you will naturally do your best to act in accordance and when you falter it will be a moment of weakness that you will know and feel, and is what repentance and Jesus's acceptance and reliquishment of our sins are for. Yes the believer is saved over the non-believer, but the believer who actively works against God is no true believer in their heart. Only the individual can know their own fate, their words mean nothing without the honest belief.

[@ikeyoung982]

@@dartskihutch4033 Well said!

[@dartskihutch4033]

@@ikeyoung982 thank you )

[@JohnnyNada]

If "God is Love", then God loves everyone you should love everyone.

[@Anne-MarieGardener]

Absolutely

[@wb6367]

Psalm 53:2-3 - "God looks down from heaven on the children of man to see if there are any who understand, who seek after God. They have all fallen away; together they have become corrupt; there is none who does good, not even one. John 15:5 - "I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing." We are saved from slavery to sin, and freed to do good works prepared for us in advance. This is the beauty of the Gospel: that God is author of all transformation and fruit in me, enabled by Christ on the cross. I can only thank Him for His free gift of grace.

[@sebwoz8766]

Yes, but we also have to accept the unearned grace willingly. For example, God may gift me with the grace of wanting to spend time with Him in prayer daily. God has also given me the gift of free will (however, limited it may be) to act on this unearned grace of wanting to pray daily. Eventually, the grace may disappear if I do not pray daily (or at least more days than not). I recently heard a priest say that when one accepts a grace through an appropriate act of the will, God will then be more likely to give them more graces. It's like when a parent gives a child a gift, and the child gives thanks and makes the best of the gift; We are then more likely to give that child a gift in the future. Accordingly, many great saints accomplished unthinkable amounts of good in their lives because they willingly and thankfully accepted God's grace, stone by stone. Sometimes these graces require action on our part, and other necessary times a lack of action. For example, Jesus sometimes told Mother Angelika to not act on an opportunity that she would normally act upon, as she was a go-getter. Sooner or later the grace of sitting it out typically bore greater fruit during her earthly life than she could even imagine. I am speaking as a sinner who has failed in this many times.

[@wb6367]

@@sebwoz8766 We do have to accept the unearned grace willingly. But we will! It is God alone who gives us the will to do so. And He does not fail to complete that work in us. "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand." (John 10:27-28) Did the grace disappear when David committed adultery? Or when Abraham went down to Egypt? Or when Samson went off track with Delilah? Free yourself! "For by grace you HAVE BEEN saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God". (Eph 2:8) Prayer is a gift from God as a result of Christ's completed work, for us to appreciate and worship Him. Relax, enjoy and bear much fruit! : ) (And I do not mean to endorse sin here. We are saved from sin. "Whoever says, 'I know Him,' but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person." (1 John 2:4) But His grace is always enough when we stumble. "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9))

[@wb6367]

@@sebwoz8766 We do have to accept the unearned grace willingly. But we will! It is God alone who gives us the will to do so. And He does not fail to complete that work in us. "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand." (John 10:27-28) Did the grace disappear when David committed adultery? Or when Abraham went down to Egypt? Or when Samson went off track with Delilah? Free yourself! "For by grace you HAVE BEEN saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God". (Eph 2:8) Prayer is a gift from God as a result of Christ's completed work, for us to appreciate and worship Him. Relax, enjoy and bear much fruit! : ) (And I do not mean to endorse sin here. We are saved from sin. "Whoever says, 'I know Him,' but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person." (1 John 2:4) But His grace is always enough when we stumble. "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9))

[@jamesdelap4085]

"Virtue is it's own reward".

[@sdalin33]

Ecclesiastes 10:14 ESV [14] A fool multiplies words, though no man knows what is to be, and who can tell him what will be after him?

[@XxKINGatLIFExX]

Someone who already does good and continues so is already a bastion of hope and light in the world. Yet when a sinner changes his ways and does good, there is less evil in the world. Remember Christianity is less about being good and rather about having a lack of evil. A sinner is someone who "misses" the point which is what the word sin means, to miss. Yet there is an abscence of good in evil as opposed to an abundance of evil in the sinner.

[@alphabeta8284]

Just need Bishop Barron and Pageau :)

[@Patto459]

Dennis is 100 percent correct

[@Bstone610]

"Behold, the Lord esteemeth all flesh in one; he that is righteous is favored of God..." Believing in God certainly makes it easier to learn to be like him, which is what it means to be righteous. But you can sincerely do the best you know without explicitly believing in him and such will also gain the favor of God. And more than those that know to do good and do not, for this is sin.

[@Treebohr]

We will all be judged according to our actions and the desires of our hearts.

[@fre7717]

the problem is some segments of Christianity have corrupted the references to 'works'. in context, this is works of the law- they have no salvatic value. However, Charity and love and mercy do have merit.

[@dontrushtohate]

What Dennis is saying cannot be true if God is our father. My child is much more pleasing to me and gets to enjoy the goodness of my house even when they disobey me over a really good and obedient kid down the block who not my child. It’s the relationship that defines Gods pleasure in us.

[@illbeyourmonster5752]

The sad reality is the average person shows their pets and stray animals more love and compassion than God does for us.

[@tadyt9267]

You can't have faith without good works and you can't have good works without faith.

[@markharrison4777]

Matthew 21:188-22 This inference is often drawn from the story of the fig tree. The fig tree, despite appearing healthy and being a fig tree by nature, is deemed worthless because it bears no fruit. This can be parallel to the concept of self-professed believers who may outwardly identify as Christians but do not exhibit the fruits of the Spirit or live out their faith in meaningful ways. In this context, the "fruit" represents the actions, attitudes, and characteristics that demonstrate genuine faith, such as love, kindness, patience, and good works. The lesson emphasizes the importance of not just outward appearances or declarations of faith, but the necessity of living a life that reflects true belief and discipleship. This theme is reinforced in various parts of the New Testament, where genuine faith is often associated with productive and transformative outcomes in a believer's life.

[@lyn7424]

Why are we even debating this? Our love for Christ naturally leads to us doing good work. The Grace of God leads us to do good work.

[@Brynson87]

Faith is exercised and proven through works - works that are done without the desire for reward.

[@LuigiMangione-b7i]

Ultimately there is no preference whatsoever. At the relative level of reality (“phenomenal reality”) good works and non-harm lead to happy outcomes. Bad works and harming others lead to unhappy outcomes. Happiness and material wealth are not very well correlated after a relatively low income threshold.

[@Jozeemoss]

Faith without works is dead. Faith comes first. The order matters!

[@joelobeck6214]

Actions define beliefs. We may fall short in sin, but it’s no good excuse.

[@aryagoes555]

I love you with all my heart Jordan❤ First comment

[@EthanWilliams-y2o]

Wrong. Love God first

[@hugster2000]

God is truth and there is no separation. If you understand this, you know the question is meaningless

[@keeponrockin85]

"For it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith, and this is not of your own doing, it is the gift of God, NOT a result of WORKS so that no one may boast" -Ephesians 2:8-9 So your works don't matter and are like filthy rags, in regards to being SAVED. Works don't save you, the only thing that saves you is JESUS. So if you are relying on your works to be "good enough" to enter Heaven you will be eternally disappointed. "Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."" -John 14:6

[@oliverjamito9902]

When no lands nor lots, nor houses, nor friendships at stake. When no mobs to mock you and you have no cross to take. Peterson thy faith the Son of Man recognize! Be gentle unto the comforter dwelling within thee! The HELPER "i" Am.

[@Denny-f8l]

Great discussion, thank you

[@sebastianalegria3401]

Peterson is the reason Why I'm not an atheist anymore, I am not saying he is a sort of God to me, but he might be a guideman, who made me change my mind about God. Moreover, I don't think God allowed Evil in the world, but he could have allowed the possibility of Evil in the world to create a better world.

[@entrugion8548]

Idk about Preference, but I've always enjoyed the story of Saint Manuel Bueno, Martyr

[@nathaniel5261]

An issue (non-belief and so many competing religions/sects) that would NOT exist if god, actually being consistent with his all loving nature, showed himself and just made his existence obvious to everyone in the world rather than deliberately hiding and making everything look as if hes not there.

[@christopherresch]

Jesus?

[@MrStreetninja007]

Me being an atheist I remember an old co-worker years ago asked me what do I believe in I simply said being a good person he told me that wasn't good enough I said oh well its good enough for me

[@firstorder438]

Proverbs 3:7-Be not wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD, and turn away from evil. Psalm 111:10-The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; all those who practice it have a good understanding. His praise endures forever!

[@MrStreetninja007]

@firstorder438 i never understood why us humans should have to fear him

[@nathaniel5261]

Youd think if an all loving god required you believe he exists as a criteria to not fry forever, he’d be decent enough to show himself to everyone so theyre sure hes real

[@MrStreetninja007]

@nathaniel5261 or saying we have to live in fear of him

[@Bubbadroid6502]

@@MrStreetninja007btw if you’re curious “fear” of God in the Hebrew actual means something along the lines of reverence and awe with submission involved. Not genuine fear and terror. So like a respect for authority.

[@Matticus_32]

its a question that doesnt have to be answered. nobody has to live in either state. we all know the clear best is the believer who does good. so pursue it.

[@babyjiren9676]

The bible is disproven in the very first page lol

[@Matticus_32]

@ ?

[@mattr453]

For many years I took pride in my good works and leaned on them for status before God. At least, that is, untill God slowly broke through to me and showed me my pride upon pride. The works and righteousness I lived by were impressive by all standards I knew of, but I was an arrogant pharisee and blind to my chief sin of pride. If we say works matter to God more than belief, unfortunately that position itself illustrates pride and likely blindness to our greatest sin, the root if all sins, the sin of pride. Now there are works that please God and glorify him, but these works flow from an individual who first trusts (has faith) in the perfect Lamb of God and the finished work he offers up for us. Works that truly glorify God flow from this faith and also simultaneously demonatrate that your faith is real. I pray you may know the amazing peace and rest for your soul that comes when you trust in His works alone, and not your own.

[@Patto459]

We don’t act, we follow

[@ronishchaudhary]

What makes One a believer?

[@Steelblaidd]

Dr. Mathew Bates argues that the best current word to translate Pistus as it is most commonly used in the New Testament is loyalty.

[@freesk8]

Abou Ben Adhem (may his tribe increase!) Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace, And saw, within the moonlight in his room, Making it rich, and like a lily in bloom, An angel writing in a book of gold:- Exceeding peace had made Ben Adhem bold, And to the presence in the room he said, "What writest thou?"-The vision raised its head, And with a look made of all sweet accord, Answered, "The names of those who love the Lord." "And is mine one?" said Abou. "Nay, not so," Replied the angel. Abou spoke more low, But cheerly still; and said, "I pray thee, then, Write me as one that loves his fellow men." The angel wrote, and vanished. The next night It came again with a great wakening light, And showed the names whom love of God had blest, And lo! Ben Adhem's name led all the rest. Leigh Hunt

[@TheSaiyanRace]

What's being referred to are works of "Faith". Faith in known promises of God. Faith accounts for righteousness. That's why doing works according to "goodness/deeds" are considered filthy rags. There's no righteousness in that. That's why there's no contradiction.

[@maciejrzepczyk6562]

Fairh is not the belief in the existence of a God only. Faith is agreeing with the principles of the Logos or The Word (dharma in other religions) and letting those principles act through your actions. St Paul encountered the Greeks worshipping an "Unnamed/unknown God", and said that this is "the same God that the Jews worshipped". "He who serves best doesn't always understand" Czesław Miłosz.

[@terrymanahan9586]

Did they ever get around to answering Prager’s question? It was an incomplete question, though, “Does God prefer the non-believer who does good” … to what? The believer who doesn’t do good? Or, the believer who still does something evil? I think Prager needed to define better what he meant by “prefer.” Perhaps they should have fleshed out his question more, b/c I didn’t really hear an answer.

[@peterlombard2292]

This sounds like a great exchange. I would like to subscribe to the Daily Wire but it insists on knowing my address which, honestly and frankly, I find weird. Why can't I just pay the subscription fee without giving my address?

[@JalonAlexander]

If I were omnibenevolent, I’d definitely care more about the good you do than whether you believe in me. Good deeds speak louder than blind faith, after all. I’ve met some incredibly gracious people in my life who knew I was an atheist and still treated me with the utmost respect-just as I treated them. If they, as imperfect humans, can do that, wouldn’t an all-loving God be even more understanding? Surely, they’d see that my actions and character outweigh my lack of belief. If there’s some cosmic scoreboard, I’m betting I’d score higher for decency and ethics than for playing along with theology just for the sake of it.

[@YourBoss5]

God doesn't exist but people are so afraid of life that cannot accept that

[@beowulf7992]

​@YourBoss5Wow...You guys are so utterly lost! Just. Wow!

[@Leutele33]

@YourBoss5I mean I understand not buying into the Judeo-Christian view but to say that a creator doesn’t exist is silly. This world is so complex. It definitely was designed by a higher power.

[@YourBoss5]

@@Leutele33 For sure something higher than us exists. The problem is that you believe in something that you don't know and you only hypothesize. When you know something you don't need to believe it. It's better to say that you don't know and believe in anything. Only then the possibility of knowing arises

[@JalonAlexander]

@@beowulf7992 I say this with no ill will, but your statement comes across as naive. If a god truly cared more about what people believed about him than about how they treated his creation, you might want to look up the definition of a narcissist. Believers often overlook certain contradictions, likely because reality can feel less exciting when their worldview is challenged.

[@alphabeta8284]

Faith without works is dead. Prots just want to feel good without helping anyone.

[@tylere.8436]

It also must suck for everyone who died before Christ and never met a single Jew or heard of God's covenant, according to Protestants, they just didn't make it.

[@joseph7105]

Easy question. "There is none good but one, that is, God" (Mark 10:18) The point is not to pretend that we can do the impossible and avoid sin (and evil work) - but that we acknowledge and repent the evil that we inevitably do that is what Jesus asks of us, and it is possible for anyone.

[@rabbitrun777]

if you believe there is some impartial and rationally deductible objective “good” you are already invoking something qualitatively identical to God in your value judgements

[@binhanh296]

Sir Jordan B Peterson, how would you consider this situation. A person, who did not know God, and he (suppose this is a he) is not a God rejecter, lived in genuine love, the love that let him to take care of others, works for the goodness of others, share others' pain and joy, comforting others' suffering... What do you think would happen to him after he pass away?!

[@batoulibrahima]

In orthodox christian we do not judge those outside the church... it's up to God

[@jarlsigurdstorvann9885]

The difference between a person who Does good and a Christian who does it in honor of God, is a person just being a good person does good things that will disappear forever in eternity, while the belivers doing Good in honor of God beings it back to eternity for God.

[@shogunshogun]

In the book of Isaiah, holy "qāḏôš" God that Dennis seems to cite is from chapter 5 verse 16, "... Holy God shows himself holy in righteousness." It doesn't refer to God's holiness internally, but it refers to God's external function as judge to people so that according to God's judgment of righteousness "Man is humbled ... the eyes of the haughty are brought low." (v. 15)

[@NiWdLES]

Everyone was set on their journey to be the best person they could be. Being a good person is not easy because we are fallen creatures. There is a fine line between walking the righteous path and following the teachings of Jesus. To be able to indeed view someone if they are genuinely trying to be a good person is to embody and embrace it. If your actions are not congruent with what you claim to believe, it will make people doubt; however, we have to extend patience to ourselves and others who wish to truly transcend our current selves.

[@williambranch4283]

Two brothers. One told the Father, I will do as you say but didn't. The second son said, I won't do it but did it anyway. Which was justified? What if we all share the same Father?

[@juniorwilliams66]

It's ACTIONS over WORDS every time!!! It's not what u say it's what u do!!

[@MrJamesdryable]

Doing good for its own sake is FAR more virtuous than doing good due to fear of a God.

[@AngelosTouTheou]

Matthew 21:28-32 The Parable of the Two Sons 28 “What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work today in the vineyard.’ 29 “‘I will not,’ he answered, but later he changed his mind and went. 30 “Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, ‘I will, sir,’ but he did not go. 31 “Which of the two did what his father wanted?” “The first,” they answered. Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. 32 For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

[@alangiaconelli2919]

Its not about the process and actions according to some preferred protocols. But good is based on your Believing God which is what you are doing , called Faith. And as a result of that obedience is met. By what one Believes one will do. That is the point of all scripture. The very definition of good is in relation to God what He said. So Cain was rejected because he did not bring an offering based on believing whatGod said, but on doing something good according to himself.

[@kengy1991]

Would love to see Frank Turek or John Lennox on this panel!

[@maverick7291]

I second John Lennox.

[@trollsneedhugs]

It's about truth. An atheist who truly loves truth but has misunderstood Christianity is closer to God than a nominal Christian.

[@Botoneous]

Facts the west think belief is a thought and not an action. The chief rulers even believed on him but were cowards and didn’t follow him and picked up their cross. Jhn 12:42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue: Jhn 12:43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

[@DogandWolfGaming]

God prefers those who do good works with genuine intent instead of selfish intent whether they believe in him or not. Those who claim not to believe but who do good works with genuine intent are believers whether they say so or not because their actions embody that which God preaches.

[@thetastyriff]

The BIBLE is God’s PERFECT WORD. Read it. Feed upon it. You will get your answers. God is ALWAYS righteous.

[@Knight-of-the-Immaculata]

Which one of the tens of thousands of modern denominations or the millions of Bible believers who don’t agree with each other has God’s one truth? Or are you saying truth is relative?

[@TJ-kk5zf]

Dennis is totally right... so is Peterson

[@JohnAtkinson-v5z]

THE ETERNAL prefers us not to use violent logic to avoid empathy.

[@peterv7258]

I do think there is actually some merit (maybe not moral merit) in affirming what is right and true and good in speech even if you don't live up to it. It is better than affirming what is evil with your speech.

[@Razear]

It's almost like our actions carry more weight than merely our words... Isn't this precisely why Jordan emphasizes that he "acts as though God exists"? It's also the premise of Pascal's wager.