Joseph Smith, the Only Witness seeing God? Bible says 2 to 3.

[@mahonrimoriancumer9932]

Sincere question, was there another witness when Moses received the 10 commandments?

[@CadenMcMullen]

The difference between Joseph Smith and all other Biblical authors is that Joseph Smith brought a new "revelation" about a identity of God that was contradictory to what was already established. The writings of all Biblical authors are complimentary about His nature which is a display God's infallible, inherent inspiration.

[@prayerwarrior7778]

@@CadenMcMullen exellent point

[@vintageyellow71]

Dave, As I’ve been watching your videos here today and I remember watching some of your interviews with people on Temple Square some years back and as I watch I can completely see why you were a member of the church at one point. You just have that demeanor of integrity and honesty about you and I appreciate watching your videos in listening to your commentary. So please keep it going and keep sharing your opinion and your feelings about issues I find common ground with you on these things.

[@vintageyellow71]

Thank you for your perspective on the witness or a witnesses doctrine. I have considered that in the past as well and thought about it frankly a lot as I served in my mission in Texas back in 1991 to 1993. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established. I think that that doctrine is fundamentally important. I do though look at other pivotal moments in the Scriptures where things were delivered to one individual and that made a difference in my opinion about that. I do believe that Joseph Smith through the power of God and through revelation did Exercise the principle of witnesses when the priesthood was restored as well as the authenticity of the plates and or the book of Mormon. Anyway it can turn into a very long conversation but I thank you very much for sharing your perspective. It makes me give more thought to it and I appreciate that you did that today. Thanks again and look forward to more videos.

[@psilomanhernandez6655]

Glory be to the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. thanks brother

[@swensonbailey]

I'm sorry Dave this argument doesn't hold up, and is quite weak. Where are the others that saw Moses talk to God? Who else saw God write the 10 commandments with His finger? The logic you use in this video would discredit Moses and Isaiah as prophets, because they both saw God and there weren't other witnesses present. Your argument also doesn't make sense when brought before the fact that Christ appeared in the Kirkland Temple to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdrey and the Vision in D&C 76 that was seen by both Joseph and Sidney Rigdon.

[@TEA-fj3ut]

One of the biggest red herrings for me from the Bible is not so much a witness seeing God. It would be more like Rev 2:9 and Rev 3:9. LDS members with PB calling themselves Jews when they aren't alongside of and having the Aaronic and Melchizedek preisthoods. Nothing Biblical there.

[@TruthSetFree-zm1ep]

God Bless From Kamloops Bc Canada 🇨🇦 Thank you

[@goingtothetop55]

Greetings! Do you know an Andrew Lamb from Kamloops BC Canada by chance?

[@TruthSetFree-zm1ep]

Mike No I don’t Can you be more specific? Is he a believer?

[@BaseCampWV]

Glory to God in all things

[@MrPanchoak]

So, I'm also an Orthodox Christian. Having traveled a very similar path. But originating in Adventism rather than Mormonism through varying degrees of non denominationalism to Calvinism, Lutheranism and finally Orthodox. How do you now see Mormonisom's legalism against similar appearing Orthodoxy? I think that this would be a good topic. Why on earth would we leave this American religious scheme for the "Freedom" of Evangelicalism only to return to what APPEARS to parallel the very thing we left? I'd really like to hear your assessment of that.

[@pollydunn3191]

MrPanchoak I think you and Dave are the kind of people that like structure and probably rituals. I think that is what keeps people in Mormonism orthodoxy catholicism 7th day Adventist and I even see it among Messianic Jews. Does God have a problem with that. I doubt it. There is freedom in Christ for us free spirit kind of people and He loves us too. We can argue until the cows come home but will not know everything until we get to the other side. I have been reading books that talk about Jesus visiting India from about 13 until he started His ministry. The claim is some of the monastery's in India have scrolls about His time there. Did He or did He not. The bible doesn't tell us about those years of His life. I've also been reading some fascinating books saying how the early church fathers believed in reincarnation and that we progress to perfection by coming back and learning more each life that way since the bible says to become perfect like our Father in Heaven. That way everyone is saved eventually. True or made up--Who Knows. I have heard NDE people say Jesus showed them previous lives and that they got to choose their life experiences. Like I said we can argue until the cows come home but no one has all the answers. I personally put my trust in the shed blood of Jesus on the cross and His righteousness but I love to learn everything I can while I am here on this Amazing earth that He created.

[@MrPanchoak]

@@pollydunn3191 I can't speak for Dave. I can only speak for myself. I do understand how that you might think like that. But my journey into Orthodoxy was the result of reading Holy Scripture. As a late teen I became aware of Adventist leadership's blatant willingness to lie in order to maintain viability as a corporation. It looked then as it does now that their own bottom line was far more important to them than my eternal life. So, I left that cult and after learning of my own deep need for Christ I became an evangelical Christian. But there remained serious inconsistencies in very key issues. Issues that no pastor could answer. These inconsistencies were compounded by really odd verbage found within the text of very important passages. "Was not Christ portrayed to you as Risen?" being one of those oddities. Why would St Paul state his basic question like this? I would have asked," haven't we taught you that Christ rose from the dead on the third day?" Why would he begin as he did? When I first attended an Orthodox Church, I felt completely out of place. And incredibly uncomfortable. But in spite of my personal discomfort all those little shelved items of scripture began to reveal themselves the the pieces of the great puzzle began to fit into place. The Faith began to solidify from little pieces of wisdom into one immense treasure. So incredible and huge that I can't comprehend it's breadth. The ritual that looks to you as a sort of primal need, is for me a reliable method of ascertaining original Apostolic Doctrine across the span of two thousand years. How is it that Orthodoxy is unified in doctrine even when across the span of time there has been a great gap in it's fellowship. Both Siberia and Ethiopia hold the same dogmatic beliefs and sing the same basic liturgy. In truth ritual held very little appeal to me. But the treasure which the Divine Liturgy brought through is worth everything to me.

[@jimmymendez9995]

I totally agree with you

[@bxxj]

Jesus DID later appear to several other people in the beginning of the church. The doctrine and Covenants details several of them.

[@LadyMaria]

Or did He?

[@tammyc766]

In the beginning was the word, and the word, was with God and the word was God!. There are no gods before God or after God.

[@Rem-Lee1003]

⚠️⚠️⚠️GALATIANS 1:8 KJV⚠️⚠️⚠️ But though we, OR AN ANGEL from HEAVEN, PREACH ANY OTHER GOSPEL UNTO YOU than that WHICH WE HAVE PREACHED UNTO YOU, let him be ACCURSED.

[@prayerwarrior7778]

But wouldn’t they say the D and C is one and the BOM is another?

[@prov25two66]

Great point.

[@lightwalker2655]

Joseph Smith clearly was alone .. that equals one. The math is clear.

[@prov25two66]

@@lightwalker2655 correct

[@prayerwarrior7778]

@@lightwalker2655 I agree. Just playing devils advocate. That is probably the logic they would use. At least I have heard it a time or two.

[@TravisWayneGoodsell1970]

Hi Dave! It's been awhile until I commented. Having been born and raised Mormon, our concept of 3 witnesses is different. In Mormonism it is more effective to question why was Joseph was able to physically see Heavenly Father and Jesus "face to face". In Mormonism, our Temple ritual is to prepare Mormons to enter the presence of God face to face, yet Joseph wasn't even baptized, received the Holy Ghost, let alone received the Temple Endowment of Mormonism. FYI - there were many others during Joseph's day who claimed to see God, even Thomas B Marsh's 8 year old boy who told this to Joseph in 1838, right before Joseph then wrote his 1838 version of Church History with the 1st Vision. Good to see all is well and I see you have the Assumption of Mary coming up on Sunday.

[@LadyMaria]

Dormition of the Theotokos, not Assumption.

[@TravisWayneGoodsell1970]

@@LadyMaria I try to be kind and respectful to Dave and you interfere with error: the feast held in honor of Dormition on August 15, corresponding to the Assumption in the Western Church.

[@LadyMaria]

@@TravisWayneGoodsell1970 I'm not in error. We do not celebrate the Assumption in the Orthodox Church. I was offering you a bit of correction and you insult me. Roman Catholics celebrate that, we do not. It is Dormition for us. You could just say, "oh okay, thanks" and move on instead of being irrational when someone of the Faith has let you know your error.

[@TravisWayneGoodsell1970]

@@LadyMaria You could have just said "oh, okay, thanks" and left it alone as my comment included a direct quote about it. Dave is of the Western Church; but apparently you are not, so you could have just let it be, but nope you couldn't do it and thus you are the irrational one. Beam and mote.

[@LadyMaria]

@@TravisWayneGoodsell1970 Dave is Eastern Orthodox, Byzantine Rite. I've seen him at my old Parish before. Now you know the difference. 🙂 You're welcome. God bless.

[@pollydunn3191]

👍 also John 1:18 says no one had seen God but the one and only son. Also John 4:24 God is Spirit and to be worshipped in spirit and truth. It doesn't say anywhere in the bible (word of God) that God is made of flesh and bones.

[@LadyMaria]

God the Son is flesh and bones. 🤷‍♀️

[@prayerwarrior7778]

Pearl of Great Price says that God told Abraham to lie. But James says God does not tempt any msn to sin. So many contradictions.