7 Deadly Sins of MMO Design - 3: Greed - Excessive Monetization

[@Savvian]

9:54 "...and i have no problem paying for it- But!'' The character on screen raised his finger with perfect auditory timing, made me chuckle.

[@excaliburofgachagames9241]

I had to rewatch that part🤣🤣🤣. I love it when that happens

[@LuvzToLol21]

"And not excessively mixed" (holds up sweet roll) Because mixing and kneading dough for too long develops gluten which makes your bread tough.

[@Metrikon9000]

I was just about to comment on this. Amazing timing on Josh's part.

[@bennyblubman9476]

Thank you I would have missed this

[@thecompanioncube4211]

What an amazing edit... Perfect timing.

[@Eqvil]

This item that you want to buy costs 25 sugar points! You can buy sugar points for real money! Want to buy? Ok sure! You can buy 23 sugar points for 5$ or 50 sugar points for 10$ (46+4 bonus). That is what makes me drop a game.

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

Thats actually going to be one of the things i talk about in the next episode

[@PlazDreamweaver]

It's worse when you change the 50 sugar points for $10 (46+4) to 55 sugar points for $10 (50+5) and all items cost 23 or some odd amount to where you'll never be able to use all your sugar points and will always have some left over. They're literally artificially creating a permanent sunk-cost situation to where you'll constantly want to spend more just to get use out of the money you've already spent. You'll never get use out of it. You'll always have 1 or 2 or 3 sugar points left. Elsword is a game that comes to mind with this. It was amazing before Nexon acquired it in full. Nexon ruins everything they touch. Their greed knows no bounds. It truly does know no bounds. It's abhorrent.

[@jonathanb8735]

I hate this so much

[@h3nder]

Valorant does this. Which is funny as LoL doesn't.

[@Eqvil]

@@h3nder Because League was made 70 years ago and it's too late to change the pricing model without a huge backlash. They would, if they could.

[@Reggie2000]

3:58 I'm not horrified by the 10k option, because anyone who will do it, clearly is so rich that they don't care about price. The more astounding part to me is that not until that 10k option for you even get a full year subscription thrown in! Even the 3k only gets you six months. Unbelievable!

[@mikeloeven]

All i can say if your selling a 10K game pack it had better come with some stocks that pay quarterly dividends

[@trinitydraco4698]

For 10k I'd damn well expect shares in the company and a lifetime membership. It is horrifying because it's just so unnecessary.

[@fw--kx6sk]

Thats more than 3x my first car + the repairs i paid...

[@louiseogden1296]

Yup. I gave £1000 of my husband's legacy to a convention we went to together. They gave me a lifetime membership -- I never have to pay an entrance fee ever again. I'd expect a lifetime sub for thar sort of money.

[@justrobin8155]

Absolutely love this series! You've been properly explaining a lot of the "gut feelings" I get when games pull this stuff

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

Glad its been interesting so far, hope the next 4 are just as good :)

[@excaliburofgachagames9241]

I watched all seven and he hit every nail in the coffin. And out of all seven, the worst is greed and the passable one is gender locking. I have quit mmos and many games for all but gender locking really. Warframe: Pride Cod and battlefield: Greed Gacha games (Except honkai impact 3rd since I still play it but specifically pvp gacha games): Greed and feature creep Neverwinter (Odd how honkai rarely gets affected the same way): time gating Bdo: forced pvp Tera: terrible servers Eso: Terrible community Never quit on gender locking once and I pretty much always play female cause I do not like looking at dudes that I'm gonna play as for 1000s of hours.

[@jakubj2827]

Ikr sometimes u play a game and there's just something that u don't like about it. You don't know what it is but you don't like it. Now I'm starting to realize what these things are.

[@KaybeCA]

Star Citizen are creating an in game VIP lounge for players who have invested over 10 grand. Yes, really.

[@thesteaksaignant]

I had to google it to make sure... this is crazy

[@spartanv0]

That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard.

[@naturalistmind]

well i guess we can confirm that game is never going to release properly at this point.

[@KaybeCA]

I look forward to reading all about the biggest class action lawsuit in gaming history.

[@Rei-Rei]

Well they *say* they are going to do that. Since their revenue model appears to be based on never actually releasing the game, they can add anything they like to it.

[@alexpayne5914]

"You can give them $10,000 so you can work for them".🤣 If only grocery stores worked that way. Take their food home, and they pay you.

[@BlueSparxLPs]

Crowfall is one of those games I remember being controversial a couple years back, because player housing in that game costs thousands of dollars. It was justified by the reasoning that you're meant to pool money with your guild and give it all to the leader, but since there's no way to store this investment pool in-game last I checked, you have to trust the guild leader not to just take it and run.

[@williamhououin]

Amazing series, and i can't imagine there's anyone better than you to explain those things, everything becomes crystal clear! P.S. Star citizen will make more money not existing than being released, IMO

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

Glad you're enjoying it William :D

[@josetrujillo2394]

Ditto on Star Citizen

[@bobsonny]

The singular of "series" is still "series", not "serie"

[@williamhououin]

@@bobsonny actually I was unsure for a long time about that! English is a second language as you might have guessed. Thanks for the explanation :)

[@alexanderzadoroznyj]

Can we all just admire the moment from 9:53 - 10:01 ? There's some serious perfection in the narration and the animation.

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

Im so glad someone noticed that

[@alexanderzadoroznyj]

@@JoshStrifeHayes I was watching that thinking "no fucking way was that not done intentionally." ace job, bro. Glad I found this channel.

[@remi3246]

I hate how there is a small piece inside me that wants to go "But they are giving you free pets now and there are events to get pets in Black Desert" when i know what a load of bs that is and how much money has been spent on pets ;-;

[@transopticon13]

I never used the pet I got for free, is it really that important?

[@fernandauxton824]

it really helps you during long grind session as pet will automatically loot mobs for you without having to loot them manually thus saving more time to bash more mobs in the process. If you already have a bunch of pets you can still trade them to make money or fuse two pets to potentially have a higher tier one.

[@spiceywolf15]

That, my friend, is exactly what the borderline abusive system wants tou to think. That thought process is exactly what they try to condition into you.

[@TheAgourosalata]

I never expected anyone to remember Adventure Quest Worlds when talking about MMO's, good job.

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

I've got a whole video on it :)

[@tankofnova9022]

I played that game when I was in elementary school[U.S] I am 21 Y/O now. I even had my dad buy me the guardian V.I.P pass because that armor looked sick! I'm surprised you didn't mention that game in sin 2 bloat. There's so many stats to keep track of for a game aimed at kids. I think there are like a dozen elements which there are several armor and weapon sets plus pets to use them all, not to mention 'faction' sets such as dragon slayer and paladin. and the map system that had you pull up a map to another map to get the map you're looking for was god awful.

[@tankofnova9022]

@@JoshStrifeHayes What about its predecessor Dragon Fable?

[@blackice9088]

"Create the problem, sell the solution" A perfect description of paywalls. Excellent series, Josh, total thumbs up! If I personally could put 1,000 likes on each of these videos, I'd do it! I sincerely hope the game devs/distributors out there are watching this series.

[@percept707]

9:56 damn that editing is on point lol

[@MsJazbren]

Paused at 9:58 to see if anyone else commented on that. Sovietwomble-level editing.

[@Faith-lj4ex]

@percept Yeah the character looked like he was saying that didn't he?

[@z1mt0n1x2]

I just bought a present for my mom today and I sort of knew the salesman as I've worked with him years before, and I know he's good at talking. He tried to sell me 3 things ontop of the product I wanted, a later model I didn't need, a package deal, and extra warranty... But I already knew what I wanted so I said no. Some, or should I say, most people don't have my skill of saying no, and this is the root of the problem, as companies sees this as a usable exploit.

[@Ehh.....]

Unless youre getting a stake in the company's returns I dont even grasp how someone could pay 10k.

[@jakerockznoodles]

Children who steal their parents credit cards and people with compulsive mental disorders manage it quite easily.

[@excaliburofgachagames9241]

Ikr. If I had that 10k I'd probably... hmm

[@hangmingzhang5067]

I have heard another analogy that might apply. "a lot of people would spend money on movies, or traveling. Most of you would, actually. It is good entertainment for a few hours, or a few days in the case of traveling. Now, you can also take that money, and invest in a video game, or a console/pc that you like. That would last you at least 60+hrs, if not exponentially more, at any time you choose to play. So, that is why people buy games." that was an argument made on why people buy games. While I would not think any game is worth 10k, but I think it might be a similar mentality, that they will get more enjoyment out of the game after 10k than they would if they spend it elsewhere.

[@Rei-Rei]

Some people have a lot of money. You can look at almost anything for sale and find a ludicrously expensive version of it because there are people who buy that stuff.

[@JohnSmith-kb4re]

@@Rei-Rei biggest example being abstract "art".

[@kulovicz3152]

Finally, someone talking about MMORPG game problems in a serious direct way.

[@excaliburofgachagames9241]

And not getting copyright striked because of "Harassment" It's a merical

[@R0MULUS97]

The business model of today is: Promise a product that some egghead in CA hasn't even finished yet, and charge money for preorder or early access. Release is often lukewarm or disastrous. Promise to patch later.... Unfortunately, too many people are fooled into the scheme b/c of the "hype" and that'll keep feeding this predatory practice.

[@ХристоМартунковграфЛозенски]

Or the "Early Access" craze. Not that all "Early Access" games are crap or get such a treatment by their devs (e.g. Verdun), but still.

[@nathannewman6555]

And then after the game is release and patched, continue with pay to win microtransactions.

[@SaschahiGG]

WoWs excessive monetisation was the entire reason I never started playing it. I played the 14 day free trial, liked it, but couldn't afford to play it. buying the game + buying expansions + the most expensive monthly subscription of every game (I knew of at the time) made me choose runescape. since that's something I could reasonable afford myself with my allowance without having to bother my (already financially struggling) mother at the time. I wonder how much more popular WoW would've been without such a ridiculous monetization structure.

[@qq84]

I even payed for all of that. But as they added the ingame shop to that it was just greed and they lost me.

[@Vexxa_]

i know this comment is 2 years old but at its peak, wow with its ‘buy game and expacs, then subscribe’ had a subscriber count of around 12 million people

[@CloaksCosplays]

This seems to usually be the problem with MMOs that are free. This is why I turn my nose up at anyone saying "but it's free!" or "theres no sub!" as a selling point for their MMO. You're going to be paying for those server costs sometime.

[@Shinnouryu]

Recently, WoW classic offers a "copy character" service from Classic to Burning Crusade Classic. It was 30$ then reduce to 15$, people were happy. Oh boi that is wrong. First, if you choose to copy from Classic to TBC they basically copy your character from Classic to Burning Crusade Classic... Then they DELETE IT. And ask you to pay a fine to restore said character on Classic. They could have freely copied the character, which is a no brainer, but instead choose the option that could kill Classic. Second, they put a price so high on purpose to lower it and looks like heroes. If it's not the pinacle of greed, what is?

[@clayxros576]

We are talking about Blizzard-Activision.

[@Missingno14]

Yep, and that's exactly what it did. Permanent Classic-Era servers are ghost towns.

[@bobbyhill6828]

i think a lot of people see through things like that. Especially when they are long-time fans who felt like they were being milked for something that should absolutely be free.

[@henryhunter9643]

@@Missingno14 it's the company's fault you say? I disagree. It's the player's fault. They were offered a choice, and they made their choice. The problem isn't the game, it isn't the company, it's the players.

[@daisymaizedotjpg]

Smite is one of the only MOBAs I've seen with a reasonable monetization system ($30 to unlock all current and future characters forever, otherwise a free rotation of one of each class each week -- super realistic, happy to pay for it), and it's been a while since I played so it may suck now...

[@davidmitchell2421]

Yeah I bought that same pass for smite. It's nice when i want to get back into the game and there's a bunch of new characters I can try

[@bobbycrosby9765]

Let's be real: some random person "helping" professionals design a raid or dungeon will make things harder on them, not easier.

[@Aasha]

"Okay guys I brought with me this old Duke Nukem 3D map I made 20 years ago and I think it looks great and will be a great fit in our new MMORPG dungeon."

[@DiscountViscount]

Of course haha. Realistically, it's likely not necessarily going to be harder than their normal job: at the end of the day, the team is going to do 99.99% of the work with the rando basically just dumping a bunch of ideas on them. So aside from the rando dictating the concept for the dungeon, the team is basically just doing the work to design a normal dungeon at the end of the day, just while having to humor a rando's constant unhelpful suggestions.

[@FenexTheFox]

Well, the Kickstarter bosses from Shovel Knight _were_ very good

[@paulmahoney7619]

@@DiscountViscount There is that one quest that EVERYONE hates in Pathfinder: Kingmaker that was designed that way.

[@wesleyorth4663]

I just LOVE the timing with the word 'but' and the missing sweet roll emote in ESO! Well done! xD

[@joey6417]

"Artists should be paid." Artix Entertainment: "In-game cosmetics take it or leave it. Oh, and can you work overtime next week? Hihi :3"

[@Thor-Orion]

@Transdigitales Metawesen höherer Existenz false

[@justascarecrow6988]

@Transdigitales Metawesen höherer Existenz Therefore they do not require money. Simple.

[@bdrago5420]

@Transdigitales Metawesen höherer Existenz And exposure. Frankly, they should be paying the company for the opportunity to put something on their resume.

[@MarriedMule]

I still remember a few years ago for the regular AdventureQuest, one coder was working on the Christmas gift box set so much that they were basically up for days at a time, while dealing with a family medical issue, and nobody else would take over for them because that would have required paying someone instead of this person volunteering their time.

[@krauthammer8274]

Just discovered your channel today and I'm glad I did. Your content is very well produced. I don't understand how you have so few subscribers.

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

Cheers hamme, and im glad you're enjoying the stuff. The MMO world is quite small and im still a small creator so, I'm not advertised much, i just made the videos i like and i don't really jump on trends so i miss out on 'trend surfing'. Ill just keep doing what i do. Have a good day dude :)

[@Kitsunekone]

@@JoshStrifeHayes That's the way to do it anyways. If you're aiming to be the next big thing, you're setting yourself up for disaster from the get-go.

[@J3assbox]

9:55 that perfect synchronisation between the "but" and the charakter pointing is so damm smooth and satisfying. Guess it was on purpose and i love it.

[@lelamego4952]

Amazing video! This, particularly, is the most dangerous of the "sins" an mmo can be for itself and for the community to the point I'd say the entire serie of videos was made with this as a "core". Thanks a lot

[@TheMrFishnDucks]

Fantastic series. Hopefully it can educate a lot of people. Looking forward to the next video. Keep up the good work.

[@michaelcoffey1991]

Love this series Josh and your take on the mmo is amazing even still as a sub for years. An your following quote I HOPE more an more gamers echo it until it is the norm. Charging for your game is fine. Having a monthly sub is fine. Having a cash shop is fine. Having all of the above is not fine. Truest Statement yet

[@ХристоМартунковграфЛозенски]

Don't you have all three in ESO ? Even though you can buy the base game and play and finish the game without even looking at the Crown Shop or considering ESO Plus.

[@TheEpsilonExpirement]

As a Destiny player, I really started sweating at 11:45. Annual (usually) expansions that lock out both gear and activities, season passes which... also lock out gear and activities, and in-game cosmetics. It's gotten more and more egregious as time has gone on, and now transmog has been monetized and I've really hit my limit with it.

[@boobah5643]

The thing that really irks me with _Destiny_ is that that content you paid for gets retired whenever they feel like you might have too much to enjoy without slopping more money their direction.

[@ComedicRick]

I'm actually of the opinion that cosmetics are just as important as mechanics in game-play. There are a lot of games where customizing how my character or environment looks are the core reasons they are enjoyable. Clicking on an enemy to attack and getting dopamine as your XP bar goes up, is not fundamentally different to clicking to equip a new outfit and getting dopamine as your character looks cool. Take XCOM for instance, designing your soldiers names and personalities might not seem to affect the strategy mechanics, but the psychological effect of being attached to those custom soldiers and the fact they could face permadeath affects how you play, whether you're more risk-averse etc, and increases the tension during close battles. Or Code Vein, a game I bought solely for the insanely powerful character creator. The mechanics were forgettable and flawed, but the cosmetic aspects kept me engaged. So if a game is pay to play, cosmetic charges are just as bad as mechanical ones.

[@duncanlutz3698]

Yup. Jim Sterling has repeatedly said "cosmetics ARE gameplay." And oh boy, did they get a huge kick out of Code Vein's extensive customization options. Remember when unlocking cosmetics were just in game rewards you'd find by just playing the fucking game (you had already bought?) How just having fun in the game unlocked even more fun without being nickled and dimed for every swanky hat? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

[@Xmaster1990]

9:55 I love how this is just so on point

[@sanderooh1834]

4:53 Did you know that in the Friday Night Funkin' Kickstarter, if you pledge $10,000 the creators will personally call you and tell you that you suck. (est. delivery Dec 2025)

[@joshy541]

I think that's the most morally correct way to reward a 10,000 pledge.

[@Voldrim359]

Ok, that sounds funny

[@BigPuddin]

I like to imagine they actually spend the money on tracking you down and having you institutionalized due to you being so emotionally and mentally maladjusted as to the point wherein spending 10k on a fucking videogame Kickstarter seems like a good idea. It'd be like a cry for help, and you would actually end up getting what you paid for in getting the rehabilitation you need.

[@sanderooh1834]

Lmao

[@zombiejesus7445]

Damn! I do miss WildStar!

[@superghost6]

You are the voice the MMO community needs! (And also, the only one I can hear right now)

[@fernandocarmo532]

This is two years old, but man, you are simply reading my mind out loud.

[@DarkDiavik]

Amazing series man! Can't wait to see the rest of them! I originally subscribed to you from your old school Runescape guides (which are fantastic) and I am waiting/hoping you make more!

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

Thanks Aidan, glad you're enjoying stuff. I will likely return to runescape at some point, i very much enjoy the gameplaybof both OSRS and RS3

[@DarkDiavik]

@@JoshStrifeHayes I use to play runescape all the way back in 2006 and onward then it started to change and get wierd and I quit until they came back with old school haha. But yeah, can't wait to see your other guides and videos on OSRS. Especially boss and raid guides would be sweet!

[@fonarte]

LOL I don't know if that was intention but the timing at 9:55 is perfect!

[@RobbyRaccoon]

Top-notch video as always

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

Cheers bobby, I'm enjoying making this series :)

[@MrGoofyGooberson]

I think we have all experienced the greed sin in some way in mmo’s

[@IshioRamo]

Im out of word on how real this episode is. Create a problem, Sell the solution, if they do that, instant drop. They dont even deserve anyone giving them time and time is money for them. I can deal with the other two without too much issue on my end but the Illuminati method is just way too nasty. I wonder if you have a video on player fidelity and daily activity to generate revenue.

[@shinami3758]

So, a friend got me to play Realm of the Mad God. Long story short, I lasted about 5 hours before quitting and leaving a review. Then, I started reading reviews and someone linked Josh's video where he updated his review of RotMG. This is the fourth time I've been drawn into listening to not only his content but part of a series he does/did. I don't sub easily but I am now subbed.

[@DemonicAkumi]

9:50 the timing of that "but" with the character sticking his finger out is perfection.

[@oosha2000]

lol

[@vizthex]

gotta love how equipping a hat strips you for some reason

[@Jrpogi98]

Very informative and easy to digest. But that finger lifting on point, you sir earned my like. Lol

[@GPEtana]

watching this video i got my two first ever barrows pieces back to back in osrs thanks man

[@josefrey4755]

I really like your seven deadly sins videos!

[@sherb1750]

I could listen to Josh talk about cash shops all day. It’s fascinating hearing about the insane predatory pricing in these games.

[@behzadmirmozaffari2563]

Buy the game! Buy the expansions! Buy the monthly subscription! Buy the season pass! Buy from the cosmetics shop! Buy loot boxes! Oh...they joys of modern MMOs!

[@canolathra6865]

I am fine with a Buy-2-Play or a Subscription game having a paid shop as well, *iff* that shop is purely cosmetic. But if there is even a single item that directly affects gameplay in a way that a free option cannot, then I view it as excessive.

[@Schmaglow]

Very surprised Wizard 101 didn't show up here 😅😂

[@kariissmol9172]

I remember when you didn't have to pay to get to about anywhere.

[@ryokuhasu9699]

Black desert now gives 3 looting pets through 1 time quests, there are also free pets given for seasonal quests, and pets are given out regularly. you can basically get 3 pets from the start, 4 pets within a few days, and a few weeks to a few months you got your 5th. While they do sell the solution they make it achievable to get them in a reasonable time without paying. BDO has made an effort to reverse course a tiny bit.

[@TheGrifhinx]

Don't sell weapons and armors as part of the monetization. Don't sell any causes of direct player advantage just because said player has money we actually want. That's pretty much it.

[@mikfhan]

And since management often demands the cash shop be always accessible even if world servers are down, you can often gauge the quality inversely by its cash shop scope. Does this game have a big cash shop? Then it is an unambitious game you can safely avoid before even getting started. No need for a trial account if it smells bad miles away.

[@Mizerious1184]

I like the way u talk to me English man, Keep it up ole chap XD !! great series so far

[@thomascollette6322]

Let's face it, at this point it isn't "greed" so much as "the standard business model." I challenge you to find any MMO out there that doesn't use one or more of these practices.

[@HumanityAsCode]

5:00 *hysterical laughter that turns into hysterical crying*

[@kailashbtw9103]

rs3 also sells legendary pets that autoloot, for irl money, they arnt required per se, but if your training without one and picking up loot your wasting a lot of time and xp. so people either buy the pet or dont loot and miss out on in game gp

[@DECHEFKING1]

8:45 looting pets? i thought about Flyff - Fly For Fun it had the same cashshop pets with lootstuff

[@serenity3157]

Really good explanation bro.

[@calltothekindred1147]

As someone who watch neverwinter fall deeper and deeper into greed I am glad it is getting called out. Sure I bout a mount, a pet (fit my ig name), and the monthly, but I put almost 1.5k thousand hours into that game. I was happy to pay the monthly subscription because I got my $10 a month out of it. I hit the top 5% of the player base in IL/gear and was at one point waiting for content. I then watched as the game descended into P2W. For those that know I remember when coalescent ward were not just in the zen shop and where a fraction of the price on the AH. When I played coalescent ward s were like 100k AD. That wasn't bad. In theory (I did) make that in a day. When I left they were climbing 400k and everything that needed them with it. Those enchantments were REQUIRED for late game. Then they became astronomical in price. I tried playing again with Ravenloft, but when I had to get rid of my Dragon Flight gear (was BiS for multiple expansion) for trash tier gear that I replaced in a week I almost cried. I know that is dumb for a bunch of 1s and 0s, but I think back to all the work the guild and I put into getting that gear. That is what hurt when I lost it.

[@jukemaid]

former bdo player here. bought three pets just to loot bc it was absolutely necessary due to the flow of combat, since if you wanted to pick up everything youd need to stop and manually comb the area for a painfully, tediously long time... or pay a lot for individual store items to have all those items instantly, thus being able to go from place to place quickly. its messed up how not only was paying real money for a loot pet necessary, but that it was unanimously agreed YOU NEEDED THREE OF THEM to fully catch all those drops. and i did. and it changed my entire gameplay experience.

[@AshernCaelia]

The Adventure Quest series was a serious culprit of the "Create the problem, sell the solution" factor of this sin. Almost all of the powerful and mechanically useful classes are either completely locked behind a paywall, or the way to get them ingame is so ridiculously difficult to get that it's impractical to do.

[@SoulFoxie]

Him saying that "You've actually removed all potential revenue from that one person" reminds me of PBG in his Roller Coaster Tycoon 2 video where he tried to charge someone everything in their wallet and then the Roller Coaster he tried charging them for had a freak accident, thus saving that person's life XD

[@nickkyg]

BDO gives you 5 different pets throughout the main quest line playthrough. There are specific cash shop pets that can help you do a single thing gooder, yes, but its not required.

[@leme686]

Yes, like you wil be fine with 5 T1's. Buying pets, either from marketplace (takes a while and only 1 at a time) or cash (most consistent option) is a necessity. If all you needed were pets there wouldn't be different grades of pets and restrictions to marketplace purchases on cash items. It's designed to appeal to the cash shop for the easier progression..

[@Francois424]

Greed, Excessive Monetization... but before we begin, let's present today's sponsor : Raid Shadow Legend ! (That didn't happen in the video's beginning, tho I could not resist, lol ! )

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

Ive actually turned down the raid sponsorship email twice.

[@Francois424]

@@JoshStrifeHayes Haha... there you go ! Good series (7 sins) by the way !

[@excaliburofgachagames9241]

Everytime I need a laugh I just say "THIS VIDEO IS SPONSOR BY RAID SHADOW LEGENDS." Thanks Raid for the memes and on to the video If I make a KZbin ima jabate everyone by doing this 😂😂😂

[@Voldrim359]

@@JoshStrifeHayes that's some guts

[@zealot9262]

I noticed a thing like this in Guild Wars 2 (Like you mentioned), The in-game Gem shop where you can buy any of the cosmetics, Mount skins, Bag/Bank slots etc. Except, you can exchange in-game gold for those Gems so technically you can get everything completely free to play (After you've bought the expansion, because GW2 is Free to Play with mini expansions coming out every few months and then the major expansions at times)

[@naseweis6105]

i guess blizzard did not watch this

[@michaels7079]

Shoutout to anyone who remembers when GW2 released custom loadouts... but you need to pay for each loadout

[@WolfShroom]

I think ESO does this well. The base game is essentially free, buy the yearly expansion and it comes with all the previous ones ($50) and a non-mandatory subscription with a lot of quality of life improvments. It's on the edge of greed, but doesn't edge into it. Anything you can buy from the crown shop is attainable ingame (buy it from another player with gold) and most of those things are entirely cosmetic. They do have loot boxes, which yea are kind of greedy, but to people who want those super fancy cosmetics it's worth it.

[@Justanothermusicnerdxo]

I watched the entire series (not gonna say spoilers), and I went back to review comments to see what people thought were the MMOs. Surprisingly, I didn’t see a lot of people call out the monetization of ESO. My personal thoughts are that ESOs biggest Sin is greed. The monetization isn’t unplayable by any means but I have a certain level of disappointment that all the coolest weapon appearances are paid for and that I’m regularly buying every chapter, always subbing every month, and buying crowns frequently. Overall I’ve been starting feel with the last few years that ESO is my favorite MMO of the roster that I play, but I would advise ZOS turn down monetization just a bit.

[@marcusdranz]

I've played a number of Nexon games over the years - Maple Story, Dragon Nest, Mabinogi - and they're all fairly well-developed, if not actually kinda fun. Dragon Nest comes to mind for that last one. The problem is Nexon's warped idea of acceptable monetization. The most egregious example comes from Mabinogi. In Mabinogi, as you rank up all the various skills and trades, you gain raw stat bonuses that match the skill's related stat. In order to rank those skills and trades up, you are required to perform an ever-increasing number of actions; making so many of a certain item, performing so many critical hits... it's all things you do in the course of using the skill or trade, so it's not that bad. ... except for refining. (probably some other trades too, but I didn't get that far in them) Ranking up refining requires you to fail when smelting metal. By the time you need to fail upwards an obnoxious number of times, your dexterity has been boosted by refining - and a number of other trades if you're like me and enjoy crafting - to such an extent that those failures are few and far between, if they happen at all. But Nexon is there for you. For in their cash shop, they have a PRODUCTION FAILURE POTION for you to buy to _force_ yourself to fail by an extra 20% chance. I hit that wall and just fucked off.

[@jackfoxx6351]

the only video ive purposely liked before watching

[@Noitanis]

Regarding the second instance of MMO greed, I recall a free to play game many years ago that I tought: "Hey, I like this, reminds me of the good things I like about WoW and it's free". It had this astral dimension hopping ship asthetic that was not unheard of but unusual enough to be pretty interesting. So I played a few characters in the tutorial area to see which one I liked and then proceeded to the main game area with the one class I chose. When I landed on the starter main game area the game mentioned a mechanic regarding the end game legendaries. If you so happened to die with them equipped they might become cursed, making the stat bonueses become stat reductions instead and you can't unequip them either. There are scrolls that remove the curse and returns them into their original state. How to get those scrolls? Through their ingame premium currency shop of course! And as many other shops with premium currencies, the amount you can buy is never quite enough for that one thing you want. When I saw that I immediately quit and uninstalled the game. It is to this day the most egregious monetization attempt I've seen in a "free" MMO.

[@DiscoPickle102]

First thing that came to mind for the first point was Star Citizen, so, glad to actually see it pop up.

[@Duskaria]

Thumbnail be like "Steve! Steve, get over here!"

[@ZBott]

I wonder how well balancing on a sort of Rock-Paper-Scissors works, then if on a freemium model the extra classes add on like Rock-Paper-Scissors-Lizard-Spock? I've been told something like that exist but never heard if they actually work or suck.

[@inquisitorichijou883]

In Warframe, you can pretty much buy any piece of equipment with real money, if you don't want to grind for the blueprints, componenets and materials. And you need to pay if you want to have more inventory slots, meaning storing more weapons and frames in your arsenal. The only things in the game aside from those slots that you have to pay real money for are cosmetics. (tho there are also quite the array of cosmetics that you can earn from playing)

[@pronounjow]

4:38 Yugioh Abridged? I love that series!

[@Rengarsus]

Another great episode :0

[@ThunderJunkOC]

I used to think Star Citizen was pretty greedy, but I played during a free fly event and realized I could easily make enough money to buy any ship in a few days. Buying with real life money just waves the insurance fee if you blow your ship up. Not worth it usually since the insurance fees are pretty low.

[@GameGod77]

After playing FF14 for a month, easily the biggest problem I have with it is inventory management. There simply isn't enough space for everything the game wants to give you, especially on the free trial! You can easily lose 20 minutes of your life at a time moving items between different inventories, running back and forth between a shop, your grand company, and your armoire. This video encapsulates why the inventory management annoys me so much. It'd be such an easy problem to solve, but Squenix want to make extra money by selling you retainers. Literally selling you additional inventory space that you have to pay $2 for per retainer PER MONTH! With the amount of money that's making them, it's no wonder they don't see any need to overhaul their terrible inventory problems!

[@thecompanioncube4211]

Same with ESO. If you want to do crafting or basically picking up loot for more than couple hours, good luck spending 10 mins or so managing inventory, deleting/selling items or forgetting about crafting mechanic. If you want to do those things? Pay $15 a month. Granted that $15 gives much more than inventory management freedom, and I also understand creating expansions, managing the game requires continuous revenue, but locking a literal array size in the background behind $15 a month is downright scummy. And the worst part is so many people will defend such tactics it's crazy.

[@curiousfishie]

Honestly speaking, the artists should be the ones profiting, without them these games wouldn't exist. They are sorely undervalued.

[@ScottGarryFoster]

9:50 Did Josh time that on purpose? I doff my hat to you good sir.

[@starlaraxan]

7:51 you talking about fiesta online? has all of the above and then some

[@byrey3]

I would have added the "exces of cosmetics and objects to pay for", specially when they used to came in bundles and slowly are getting sold separate by +10€ each, and they keep pumping them in "limited time period". This includes making it harder to get thing from lootboxes (increasing the number of comon and rare drops, so the odds of getting the legendary slim even more, or at the very least making it difficult to get the complete set of rare items, or just the only one you want) And so many more examples from the ESO

[@SteelHammerTTV]

I found it really funny, that 2 of the 7 sins have WoW as thumbnail

[@ColdNapalm42]

Okay...BDO is B2P...technically...but it is 10 bucks normal price...almost always on sale for 5 dollars and free often. Also the pets...they give you free pets now so you don't have to buy them. They also give costumes so you don't look like a Christmas tree with boss armor on for free. So they have backed off of lot on their monetization problems. I actually started to spend more money with them when they started to do these things.

[@excaliburofgachagames9241]

A lot of my pets, actually all of them, are ftp. The only things I purchased was VIP pack (I usually get at least 1 sub in an mmo when I plan on playing it) and outfits (Got to make my female characters look sexy... and I mean that or why am I afking here... or fighting mobs). P.s: Last time I played nova just came out and she was fun to play. And I quit because I got killed while afk so yea forced pvp kill the bdo

[@erikloganer428]

They 'give' you tier 1 pets. Loot every ten seconds, meaning you either stand around and wait, loot yourself, or leave loot laying around. The 'only' way to increase your pets abilities is to do what? Do they give the 'same' type of pet for free every month or so? Nope. Is there a way 'in game' to increase your pets looting speed or add more abilities? Nope. You have to 'buy' more pets of the same kind, and destroy them to 'breed' a higher tier pet. And unless you 'buy' several of them, you're still at the mercy of their horrible RNG. Now lets look at the first pet they 'give' you as a quest reward. It's a tier one 'event' pet, meaning the 'only' way to increase its abilities is to destroy another 'event' pet they 'might' decide to 'give' you a few months later, and even 'that' isn't a sure thing. Yeah, claiming they 'give away pets' doesn't even begin to cover the greed factor of that game. It's one of the worst in this area.

[@dharkbizkit]

10k dollars.. and only 3 months subscription included.. damn, lotro had a lifetime account for around 200 bucks

[@atothetaco]

The more I watch this series the more destiny 2 fits these

[@RecklessInternetting]

If EVE Online has taught me anything, those Javelins are going to be constantly under attack and will be wrecked in the first week of release

[@Ajan-X]

I was hoping for a picture of Bobby Kotic in there somewhere.

[@midori_the_eldritch]

Honestly something that I think would be interesting to try is pay to make harder, where you pay to get extra challenges in game play, like a pade new game plus challenge.

[@jasonbenjamin401]

I watched your review on Defiance 2050 and it made me start playing. That game is fun as fuck man! I hope it stays alive a while longer. The player base is cool with noobs and are helpful and polite. I think I want to watch the show now as well. They should give you a sponsorship check for that...

[@JoshStrifeHayes]

Glad you're having fun dude :D

[@wolfsruhm]

i do agrtee the gunplay of Defiance was/is really nice, although the story is rather mediocre, and their attempt to tie it into a tv/streaming seies fell massively flat. Atill quite an enjoyable gameplay loop

[@Talarue]

I took getting to end game in neverwinter without paying a dime to be a personal challenge. It took an unholy time commitment and like a year but I did it, and 6 months later I had maxed Mastercrafting. Then I felt like there was nothing left in the game but the friends I made then while they were still fun people that eventually was not enough to keep me playing. I miss the friends I made. I do not miss Neverwinter and likely never will.

[@jpteknoman]

in defense of BDO pets, in the game you can have a max of 5 active pets that loot for you and by doing the main quest you get these 5 pets. granted they are not top tier pets but you do get the bare minimum without having to pay and they are handing out pets in events all the time. with a bit of patience you can get a full set of top tier pets without paying anything.

[@frikyouall]

6:36 - See episode 1 for complete opposite argument.

[@DemonicAkumi]

The biggest sin to this is inventory. "Here's some inventory." NICE! Wait... my 30 inventory space is full already... "Not to worry, here's another backpack you can use for more space." Thanks! Wait... you're still giving me too much things, the extra 20 space is full already... "Ooh! Here you go. You can use this. 2000 more space!" Thanks! "That'll be around $30." You mean gold/gil/meseta/zeni? "No. Actual bucks. Pay up if you need space."

[@octapusxft]

The caravan brutosaur...

[@gamithemighty5932]

as Jim sterling once advised to the budding community of Conscientious wanna Be game developers, "Make a Good Game First, Then think about how you are going to monetize it." a good game is forgivable, but a bad game is just downright wrong, and you know it... instead of worrying about how much money you need to make from your product, focus on making it so good on its release that what you ask for in exchange from your consumer, feels fair to both the consumer and to you. that is the essence of fair trade. and that is ethical business modeling 101. and I don't even know if that sort of educational course even exists... but if it doesn't yet. it should, it really should...

[@hardlines3312]

Not saying you are wrong but I would like to point out that Star Citizen's ship prices seem excessive however buying them ingame is a realistic option. Making money is reasonably quick and you can purchase 200 pound ships after a couple of days of doing genuinely fun activities. Especially now that the game is gaining some real momentum with massive updates every couple months. Also, massive ships like the Javelin are not meant to be bought by single players because it is borderline impossible to pilot alone, they are designed to be clan hubs and paid for by multiple people like high ranks/clan leaderd and all chipping in. The only inexcusable thing in my eyes is the constant fear of character wipes that deletes everything you bought in game but not through the pledge store although there hasn't been one for a while. Just my input, great video as always!