Somebody finally made PID tuning make sense | Chris Rosser PID tune method | Part 2

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Somebody finally made PID tuning understandable for everyone. It's Chris Rosser! He's released two videos (so far) about filter and PID tuning, and they finally break down quadcopter PID tuning into a set of steps that nearly anybody can follow to get a great flying quad. I'm going to work through the steps and see what kind of results I get!
Chris Rosser's Filter Tuning video: • Betaflight 4.2 filter ...
Chris Rosser's PID Tuning video: • Betaflight 4.2 PID tun...
All videos in this series are in this playlist: • Chris Rosser PID Tunin...
Build the exact quad I'm flying! My complete tutorial: • JB's Perfect Freestyle...
-- TABLE OF CONTENTS --
0:00 - Discussion: what is P/D Balance
2:00 - Test flight with P/D balance 1.0
3:13 - What is step response and how to analyze
8:55 - How to adjust P/D balance
10:16 - Test flight with P/D balance at 1.1
10:40 - Analysis of P/D balance 1.1
11:37 - Test flight with P/D balance at 1.2
13:27 - Analysis of P/D balance 1.2
14:20 - Conclusion

[@PIDtoolbox]

great video Joshua! Glad to see more PID tuning vids! One thing I would suggest is minimizing the effect of FF for the step resp tuning. High FF values can mess with the deconvolution process, but also may dominate the curves such that the changes in PD may be masked by FF. I just add FF back later and look at the set point-gyro tracking in the traces. Anyway, I wish teaching was my forte, but you do a great job of distilling it down nicely for a general audience.

[@AGILISFPV]

Thats a great point. Thank you!

[@neekfpv7131]

this is exactly how you get me to watch to the very last second haha! that dab tho! hahaha

[@sylvanlight120]

Thanks again... Looking forward to part 3.

[@baggszilla]

I could watch 100 of these videos in a row of you tuning all different quads!

[@ratititat-rcflyer5139]

im so glad your doing this thank you! after watching Chris's video and also a lot of marks and your tuning videos i thought i was starting to get how to tune. Pid tool box was something new so i grabbed my freestyle quad did the process and got what i think is the best tune i ever had quad is running bata 4.3. and jbf7 stack so i grabbed a 533 race quad needed more filtering but i got to the same point as you over shoot 1 then come back but when i keep lowering p it over shoots 1 and never comes back i thought it was going to go the other way and go under 1 kinda dont get it need more flights next time out im going to raise p and see what happens again thank you guys Chris, Mark and Joshua this is some good stuff!!

[@lankoglot6015]

Love the outro and amaizing tutorial!

[@HDgodfrey]

Well, I learned something. Thanks as always JB.

[@Cappurnikus]

Thanks for another video Bardwell.

[@jesselopezdrones4396]

Lol nice dab at the end. Great tools for PID tuning. Thank you for sharing. 🙏👊👊👍👍

[@exinfernnus]

Exciting stuff. My last build was an F4, so I'm getting caught up. I just ordered a pre-built dji qav-s to get back into it. Can't wait to see how the new stuff flys.

[@strikerFPV]

12:22 actually opened my eyes. I sometimes had issues with my old build, not that strong as you showed there but it was audible in the motors and whenever I loosened the lipo strap and redid it it resolved. I honestly never really understood how that made sense because I couldn't imagine how the lipo strap could cause so much noise...

[@smokecreekstudio7320]

was watching this series wasn't really tracking at all till about 4:40 explanation and that boom light bulb went off and now i totally understand whats going on here thanks JB!

[@anti-popfpv4638]

In trying to PID tune my wireless panties. This guide made it so easy. No more runaways.

[@MrCrowleyandhisdrone]

Great Vid. Awesome explanation. Thank You

[@Jonnymule]

I'm so new to this that I have no idea what you are talking about. But man can you fly!! Hope I can do that one day.

[@HDgodfrey]

If you fall in love (become addicted) with it like we have... you will.

[@airflowfpv7791]

Yeah man, you'll get it! You are definitely on the right path, watching JB videos. Also check out Mark Spatz's channel, called UAV Tech. A lot of good info on tuning your quad in Betaflight. But don't let all of this pid tuning stuff discourage you. The fact is, Betaflight's default settings nowadays, are usually good enough to fly straight out of the box, with little tuning needed on a clean build, especially for a new pilot. So, all of that will come to you in time, don't sweat it, just concentrate on learning how to control the quad and how to charge li-po batteries safely etc... Mostly just have fun with it, it's a blast!

[@Jonnymule]

@@HDgodfrey too late...LOL. I'm living and breathing this already. 😁

[@Jonnymule]

@@airflowfpv7791 Just ran through ten batteries with the betafpv cetus kit in my basement (it's raining) and still charging. Already know I'm gonna need better gear. Thanks guys! 🤟

[@airflowfpv7791]

@@Jonnymule Yep, I believe you've been bit by the bug! Lol.. Awesome man, you are doing good with that set up. You have enough to get you going and then the imagination says, wow, if what I have now is this much fun just wait till I upgrade how much cooler it will be,,, and that thought never ends...lol I am envious of though because I don't have anything small/tame enough to fly indoors when its no go outside. The simulator helps out some but nothing like real stick time...

[@HolaACchillin]

What the heck! Best outro ever!

[@PhilipSAndrews]

This worked on my 3 inch tadpole & seems like it’s on Rails, but in filter settings had to raise the maximum to 680. Thank you Joshua & Chris! 😉

[@optic4ce]

I've been through the 3 videos today on my quads, although they were setup half decent already testing against the theory tweaked them that little bit more. They fly sharp now!

[@CeeDeeFPV]

Dear FPVcrate I would literally subscribe for a year if you do a JB dabbing shirt

[@bobmahbob]

Im following step by step on part 1. And my nazgul fly much much smoother.

[@kennyfication88]

Neato. Just wanted to say thanks and greetings from Germany :)

[@Krunked]

thanks for the content joshua -- this is a great update to your other pidtune tutorials

[@Llegando_Tarde]

Yup good one!

[@solen1849]

Im sorry, but after watching the other videos this really helps me to understand it way better. Went from rocket science to just science lol

[@rasta1979]

ROFL the dab in the end you killed me man.

[@TheStopmotionMovie]

That outro 😂

[@FailsafeFPV]

15:47, you're welcome 😅

[@creatorTWin]

it would be cool if one day quads had a better/worse tuning system some type of basic parameters for your setup (motor, size, weight, ect) and then the quad was almost tunable like an eye exam - 1 minute test flight and then prompted "did that feel better or worse" like an intro to a video game where its figuring out your parameters of stick inversion and sensitivity of your sticks ect.

[@jjenningsoh]

Or like when mom makes us hot pockets and asks if we want to be spoon-fed or fork-fed 😃

[@Rulusto]

That DAB tho!!!

[@FailsafeFPV]

15:47, you're welcome 😅

[@brianbutcher7409]

based on the video footage, the stock setting looked a bit smoother on straight acceleration when you punch out. It also seemed like the plot of the raised P tune actually showed a slower rise time achieving the target rotation rate.

[@tshirtfactory07]

yesssssss!!!!!!🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌

[@findler]

Waited for this! :)

[@youngbungalo6874]

Sheeeesh!!!

[@fpvraver]

I love the shirt I have one. I would just like to make a suggestion it might not be that exact shirt but it’s very close to that one big part but I have a suggestion maybe look up a higher quality printing service for the shirt. My Joshua Bardwell broken arm motor shirt started to peel the decal after one wash in my washer and dryer. Are used gentle cycle and turned it inside out to avoid this. Just a suggestion love your content!!!!!!

[@TESLA7512FPV]

👍✌️ Thanks

[@cgnfpv]

I think I noticed a little something that maybe many do. When I do a snap flip or roll, I pull the stick to 100% and then release it completely. As a result, the stick doesn't stay directly in the 0 position, but of course swings back and forth a bit until it ends in the 0 position. This can be seen in the set position logs. As soon as I "manually" move the stick back quickly, these jerks do not occur. The question now would be. What is an optimal snap maneuver to feed the blackbox. Release, or quick manual return of the stick to the 0 position. I would imagine some struggle with this even though the copter is already optimally tuned.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

Don't release the sticks like that. Manually return them to center.

[@MCsCreations]

Pretty interesting indeed, Joshua! 😃 Thanks a lot! Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

[@PrOpCiRcLeS]

Hey Josh what if you turn up your yaw rate to get more aggressive data for the perfect balance of p and d over and under over shoot ??

[@runpuppyfpv5744]

Lol nice outro

[@SensorDelay]

Are there any modules i could solider to a uart to give it blackbox?

[@lynxfpv]

Once I had a great tune set it was a nite an day difference in flight. Feels so dialed in it is amazing. Any seasoned pilot know what I mean. Big difference between default tune and a great tune.

[@RCRitterFPV]

all about the dip

[@TweakRacer]

Your yaw stick only 360’s actually look pretty cool. No need to coordinate with roll command.

[@Epic501]

sheeeeeeeesh

[@AxelC2020]

I can't believe what I saw at the very end...

[@PortalFPV]

Wooo... subscribe already. What's your problem. Dab out! 🤣🤣

[@SukSukulent]

Is the PIDtoolbox available for linux?

[@voodoo372]

The dab killed me.

[@Matraxea]

Interesting.

[@mohdaliff8259]

Can i know why when i edjust my P and D gain, value of yaw Proportional not same as yours, what a problem sir

[@cgnfpv]

You do all the tuning without dmin. So far so good! But do you activate it again at the end, or do you leave it deactivated even then?

[@JoshuaBardwell]

Personally I leave it.

[@squiblerfpv1326]

Sheeeeeeeeeesh 😂😂

[@OCD_FPV]

Hey JB, I think I have my tuning nailed down I would like somebody professional just a review my rates and filters. What do you charge for this and how do I get the payment and information to you?

[@pav2k]

If you turn off FF for the BB analyze, that would give you a better data

[@TheMadmacs]

........ i thought the d-term made it more responsive..... sum total of my tuning is adding 3 to pitch d' to increase its response.... this is why i don't tune

[@TurtleModeFPV]

I'm a racer with slow rates... My question is: When tuning for overshoot would it be better tune using fast rates to push the quad harder, or tune to the rates I intend fly with?...

[@JoshuaBardwell]

Always tune with what you fly.

[@TurtleModeFPV]

@@JoshuaBardwell Thanks man, great vids... The recent tuning vids done by you and Chris inspired me enough to start delving into black box, which has an obvious intimidation factor lol... Well worth the effort as my quad finally feels like I had envisioned I'd like it too 😁

[@RobertLeclercq]

Interesting! No wobbles / desyncs on them hard yaw moves. That would have done it for me. So these are the improved motor / bell?

[@JoshuaBardwell]

Yes. They'll be in stock in about 3 weeks.

[@RobertLeclercq]

@@JoshuaBardwell Crossing my fingers I actually get a set, and Bob ain't forgot about me. The Imperials are great motors, so much throttle resolution, insane power, but damn the fucking desyncs!

[@vacatedbroom6237]

Wow

[@GhostOfAnubis09]

Can't say I am a fan of your decision to split this up in so many parts. Especially for referencing back to it at a later stage, I'd very much prefer not having to look through 3 (or more) videos to find the information. Still appreciate the effort breaking the process down! (And yes, I get that from the algorithm's point of view, this is the right call. A shorter multi-part series will perform better, because it is 1) returning viewers and 2) less likely that viewers stop watching in the middle of the video)

[@JoshuaBardwell]

You're right about how it affects the algorithm. In addition if I put out 45 minutes of content on Monday then I have nothing for Tuesday. So releasing it in parts gives me more time to work on other videos.

[@jordanh3613]

When you put PD balance at .8 it says 1.2 in the video at the top, just a heads up

[@JoshuaBardwell]

Ah frick when I made the labels I mentally moved the sliders the wrong way.

[@AleLarosa]

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeshhhhhh

[@neilfpv]

I'm very interested to see the inputs from those folks who gave thumbs down. It would be nice to hear why they disagree with Joshua. This way, everyone who saw this video will both have idea if there is something Joshua is missing. Please speak up and let us know your experiences about tuning. Thank you.✌️

[@HunterplaysminecraftKove]

I wish this method applied to 4.3 a little bit easier bc with 4.3 yo dont have to move both of the P's

[@cafub2650]

How can you tell that the overshoot undershoot is not from your lack of timing or rates being too fast or too slow. Even with these data seems like alot of guess work still.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

Rates and stick movement don't affect the response curve in that way. Rates and stick movement change the setpoint. The response curve is the relationship of actual movement relative to the setpoint. So whatever setpoint your stick movement commands, the response curve is showing how well the PID controller achieved it. Rates do have some effect. If you are commanding a very high rotational rate, rise time may be longer and overshoot may be higher. But the overall character of the curve will be the same.

[@FailsafeFPV]

15:47, you're welcome 😅

[@minonim8749]

Any drone expert can you please help me with my receiver problem i cant get any links to beta flight even when theres a connection on my xtm+, i have a additional video please check it out and help me please

[@Louis-zd2lw]

In school we learn to set PID on system the easiest method (not usually math ) is to put Ki an Kd a 0 and set the Kp to the sweet spot ,the we tune Ki to make the line close to the command. The problem with Ki is it's an integral so it makes times to respond ,then to reduce the respond time we use Kd. My question is can I use this method (put Ki and Kd at 0)???

[@JoshuaBardwell]

The best quadcopter PID tuning experts don't use that method.

[@Louis-zd2lw]

@@JoshuaBardwell but nice video

[@Louis-zd2lw]

I also see on drl sim there is a fonction to set PID automatically by doing full pitch ,roll and yaw. I have a project for this summer ,is to use an esp 8266 or 32 and giro to make a "black box" that return the PID to use by put in input the current PID using a web page

[@RiloFPV]

Haha...... The lat part he sounds like a character on the Rick and Morty show xD

[@twinturbostang]

I think JB was on something in the outro.

[@lostdeath4202]

What's with the cow in Liftoff and then a UFO came and took the cow there was a sign "that said Take me away right next to the cow" too lol

[@skyweaver3199]

I just want to ask officially , are you using the new JB quad whilst tuning in these videos? (Ya know because I built it.)

[@JoshuaBardwell]

Yeah of course!

[@skyweaver3199]

@@JoshuaBardwell with Chris's filters...The JB QAVS flies beautifully. I am really considering building a few more. I also wanted to let you know something. I have not seen ANYONE say this , in any video yet. But , because of the shortage of low latency HD cameras , IE Cadx Nebula Pro. I used the camera from the air unit , on a vista , and it worked great. While it can be an expensive way to get low latency HD, many people buy air units by themselves. I say if you can't get one , buy an air unit, then pull the camera off , switch it out, and sell the Air unit module on FPVEXCHANGE.COM . (You probably already knew this , but I think it would be a good public service announcement.)

[@michaelwblade]

Omg did you just DAB 😂

[@FailsafeFPV]

15:47, you're welcome 😅

[@quasartv7233]

P is to springs as D is to shocks.

[@thecakeisalie7070]

That dab could use a little less P.

[@neo3exe]

I kinda miss you without beard

[@howitsdone5096]

I cant figure this out. After watching Chris's video and yours, you both must assume we all know how to hook up our quads to these graph blackbox things. I cannot figure out how to get my blackbox flash to be on this graph thing so I can use it. Super frustrating. I followed Chris's video step by step but my process didnt look like what he was doing. I didnt have log files and he didnt explain how to do it. Been spending a week on youtube watching and everyone assumes we allready know how to do it. How Do You Get pidtoolbox to read your blackbox flash??

[@JoshuaBardwell]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/m2XQYqp7mMiSj80

[@marlin-fpv]

Why you didn‘t remove FF?

[@JoshuaBardwell]

Because Chris didn't say to do that and we're following his method.

[@MurdersFPV]

I swear Chris said overshoot was suggesting you need more D and less P on the balance.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

That's correct. I was increasing P because I wanted to increase overshoot to demonstrate the effect it had on the step response curve.

[@MurdersFPV]

@@JoshuaBardwell oh got it. I thought I was crazy for a sec. Just tuned my quad after watching Chris' video and it feels great.

[@mokshpatel6986]

Last seen make me super laghing 🤣😂😂😂

[@brapler]

The mechanism of yaw decided less d term is needed ,it's really slow.

[@dominicklittle9828]

do mutlti gp racers use blackbox on their quads ever? i would guess they only do it by ear. pid tuning is the only thing im not good at and i have been racing with my friends for about 5 years now. i never tune my quads mainly because i dont know where to start so if somethin is wrong i never know why i just change stuff till it stops being weird

[@zlachannel8674]

did you win in every race u do,,how much cost you spend for sparepart

[@dominicklittle9828]

@@zlachannel8674 well me and a two of my friends tried going to a real race and we found out really fast it’s not fun crashing and waiting to go get our quads then wait for our next turn to race which is not fun. So we got our own gates and setup just us three and we can run out and play dodge quad to start flying again. So basically we don’t ever win or lose we just race till we run out of batteries. Each one of my dji quads is about 3-4 hundred bucks in parts (frame, motors, 4in1esc, flight controller, dji caddx vista,) props and batteries also. I have 3 catalyst machineworks Mercia v2s and 3 karearea plastic talon v2s.

[@dominicklittle9828]

Frames from catalyst machineworks are between 70-100 bucks for the frame but individual carbon spare parts are pretty cheap. In the beginning you break a lot of stuff but once you get the hang of it you stop breaking stuff pretty quick. It will cost about 1500$ to get started initially getting everything you need but if you start with one pre built quad and a charger batteries and the dji has system you will have enough to get the fpv bug to bite you then the rest comes easy

[@zlachannel8674]

@@dominicklittle9828 ouh my god,,,there is a lot of money

[@Khalinakhe]

WAIT UNTIL YOU SEE THE OUTRO.

[@Beeks81]

That outro tho

[@FailsafeFPV]

15:47, you're welcome 😅

[@Beeks81]

@@FailsafeFPV well, i mean, its the outro...its not that hard to find, is it? Lol

[@Mqzfpv]

Joshua. You cannot tune using pid toolbox properly when having FF so high. FF slider to 0.5 FF transition to 1. Then you can tune using it. You should be looking at blackbox for this data..

[@DronePlayground]

👍👀🇭🇷

[@ostrichrl6860]

OOHHHHHHHHH so D is like a deadzone almost... Weird

[@chknoodle2324]

JB: Somebody finally made PID tuning make sense! Spatz: Am I a joke to you?

[@JoshuaBardwell]

Chris's technique is the same as Mark's, but Chris's explanation is way better.

[@chknoodle2324]

@@JoshuaBardwell Lol I totally agree, just giving y’all a hard time. Hope you and Mark don’t mind. 😝 It’s nice to see Chris’s explanations, I’d stay that his videos combined with Mark’s give a very thorough PID tuning knowledge base to work off of. 👍

[@brucea.kenney7957]

LMFAO!!

[@Chris-hn4lp]

Your technical explanation of the D term at the beginning is not accurate at all, but overall the video is still good.

[@aztecjoe29]

Wu lol

[@burned_esc]

meanwhile in Britain: love for the sport grows intensively or meanwhile in Britain: caveman throws rocks at people facebook.com/david.maclaren.12/videos/227384472560466/ worth watching this is how safe is to fly drones in the UK surrounded by medieval prejudice, goblins, and witches.

[@simonbeattie6623]

A little bit of hhuh

[@furiousstylze1]

Real talk Josh I love you but you almost put to me to sleep I remember when this was fun now it's getting way too technical bring it back to the basics.....Happy flying!!!!!

[@jessefpv9217]

Honestly that tune looks really stiff.. the greatest way to tune is still stingy ole method

[@JoshuaBardwell]

If the tune was stiff, changing the iterm relax threshold would be the next step to fixing it. But we didn't go there yet. Correct me if I'm wrong but Stingy's method doesn't take into account the existence of feed forward, which is a major limitation (but FF wasn't around in Betaflight then I don't think).

[@DawnHub666]

Yeh. No.. This doesnt make sense..

[@MoppelMat]

everything is wrong about this video. I dont like to bash, but this vid is just bad. sorry... first: FF is not THAT sensitive, you cant tell the diff between 1.1 and 1.2. next: you do NOT disable FF by setting the transition to 0, you disable it by setting it to 1 (for tuning purposes, disable it until the end AFTER you got you PD balance), third: you got PD balance the wrong way, you went from 1.0 to 0.8 but tell about 1.1 and 1.2, what now? please, for everyones sake, just do it again properly, this is just garbage.