Bardwell Wants to Talk About Motors! FPVCycle Still The Best Choice? - FPV Chat

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[@Kabab]

Solid wire does tend to hold up better to those cooking situations. A partial cook is still okay too. Otherwise multistrands are technically better but it's really hard to compare due to differences in wire quality mattering too. The weight is definitely annoying but durability has to improve and we changed how the magnets and bells are made which added more durability and weight unfortunately. I'm always investing all the sizes still but I keep going back to the 25mm motor. Bench tests are useful sometimes but they also don't explain everything. The wasp motor is fantastic too. It is a super efficient and effective overall package. It's gonna be very interesting to see what you discover with your latest tests.

[@LowetheTechGuy]

Yeah, this dude is testing motors that have different KV all on the same voltage! Now set them all to have the same KV. Which means set the output limit to equal the lowest kv out of the motors being tested. Then compare thrust output and run time. I think the Test Data is wrong. Anyone who ever had the same size/brand motor with a different KV knows that lower KV will give you higher thrust at the same voltage. Just look at any manufacturer test data which shows the same size motor on different KV and same voltage.

[@rawpicsfpv3516]

bardwell is so diplomatic, i love it

[@bwcritch]

This why I started running the VELOX motors from T-Motor. Based on my skill and the abundance of these motors everywhere, I felt it was the best move.

[@TheBrianCloud]

Second that. They have been solid motors for me for quite some time. Plus, the shiny blue is 😎

[@thewhitedillard]

solid strand holds up way better then the multi strand crap like t-motor likes to run.

[@josh8106]

The ending LOL

[@mudkipz3213]

Bardwell the beast

[@glytch5]

I almost NEVER crash... but as soon as I fly in front of someone BOOM! I feel ya.

[@LenfredDueck]

I fly both the Xing V2 2306s and 2506s and the Wasp Majors. Both are excellent motors. But if I had to choose one to fly the rest of my life it would be the Xings hands down. It's just little things here and there that make me prefer them. Such as the Xings have a slight thread pilot feature on the tip of the prop shaft so your prop nuts spin on quicker, and as well a little motor wire guard to keep them from rubbing on the bell as well as keep the wires from getting too close to the motor mount screw holes. The shorter prop shaft on the Wasps as well as the low profile prop nut is probably the biggest issue I have with them. And the durability in my experience isn't quite on the same level as the Xing2s. Not to mention that are more expensive than the Xings. But they look sweet. 😁

[@flapjackfpv]

Xing2’s are the only ones I’ll run on my bashers especially in bandos other than my DXA Motors because when I bend the bell that protruding lip at the top helps me bend it back no other motor has that ability

[@lililililililili8667]

I smashed my xing 2 2306 motor bell right up against the stator and the cut outs on the top were just the right size and shape to bend the bell back out with a can opener. Doesn't even seem slightly out of balance and can't tell it ever happened aside from the scratches.

[@FreshPanda97]

@@flapjackfpv WTF I have so many xing2 at home all bended😭 I thought about trying other brands now because so many are fucked

[@flapjackfpv]

@Psychonaut97 Unfortunately. That's always going to be a major issue and even more sensitive with most other brands. The best performing brand hands down is RcINpower smoox and wasp motors. Wasp motors are insane power for 1860 kv but the feel and control at low throttle is phenomenal with both... if you need durability and willing to sac performance get the amax motors. A bit high on cost but pretty tough. Performantés are my favorite at 1850kv but u have to order that kv from amax directly but shipping is decently fast for living in SoCal... I ordered the 2207 1850 kv bandos But I immediately swapped the bells to the performantés because they were so heavy and running hot.... rn they're on my 65amp fettec g4 fc build and they're doing OK but the performance is 7 of 10. But they're on a basher intentionally so I'm willing to sacrifice the performance for durability... It's actually the thumbnail of my most recent video.

[@havoc_64]

I have the same problem...I keep ending up with Xing's...... Wish they'd bring the camo bells back..lol

[@ductgoosefpv]

Wasp majors are spectacular. Been running the same set all season.

[@nils_vo]

Been flying the xing2 2207s for a couple months now and I love em. Pretty cheap for the specs, good performance, they can take a proper beating AND you can buy Bells separately, unlike many other motors.

[@fearlessflyersfpv420]

I haxe xing and xing2 motors. One zing2 went south for some reason, out of 8 original and of the older zings none have died. But I like them both, the xing2 have more zing!

[@steviefpv]

Most my friend who have tried the xing2 hate them. Yeah performance is good but they tent to snap at the shafts a lot

[@nils_vo]

@@steviefpv I've probably gone through 20 or so bent bells and messed up bearings, never a snapped shaft tho

[@fearlessflyersfpv420]

@@steviefpv still haven't seen that I crash pretty good sometimes too. I did have one start making a weird clicking sound, replaced both bearings but it still happened.

[@fxrc3086]

The zing 2207 1855 with a 94% to 98% moter output limit is my go to moter. I have them on like 10 quads. Best moter for the price

[@su_K3N]

Why the throttle limit because of the high kv?

[@fxrc3086]

@@su_K3N yes and I ment to say moter output limit not throttle. Some of my quads I run down to 94% it depends but at least 98%

[@definingslawek4731]

Why do you do motor output limit instead of just doing throttle scale ?

[@fxrc3086]

@Defining Slawek I think limiting the moter to 94% makes them around 1750k. I'm not sure if throttle scale has quite the same effect, but it very well might.

[@monolith2001]

Sorry Josh. I picked up a set of WASPs after seeing Rosser's video so I am the one of the reasons for low stock.

[@ThirdEyeFPV]

Been racing with Xing 2207s for the last year or so on all my quads. They’re super tough and in that sweet spot for performance, weight, durability and price

[@GibRealistic]

Imo you should give a try to 5,5" with something like 2208 motor.

[@michaelwilson3946]

Newbeedrone flow v2. Regardless of test results. I feel like it has the best low end throttle control 2306.5 Previously flew tmotor velox 2306, xing e 2207, and 2208s. Hard time spending the money, but Newbeedrone all the way

[@Brian-S]

Been running 2107.5 GTSv3 since the start of this year with the J37s/j40 props and they're pretty solid

[@illicit_fpv8208]

Cool. More imperials left for me! 😊

[@skyweaver3199]

Been flying those xings for the last year at least. I immediately took the fpvc 25mm off my quad after the first 2 or 3 days...

[@metaldirtnskin]

The guys who restore antique electric fans often spray the stators with new motor winding varnish (McMaster-Carr sells it) to deal with potential shorts in the ancient windings. I've wondered if that could rescue a burned motor or at least prolong the life of a near-burned one... might be worth a try next time I cook one. Just mask off the bearings and/or anything that might rub.

[@rcdieselrc]

If a winding is shorted, only rewind will repair it. Varnishing an old motor, hard to say what they are actually achieving. The only thing I can really think of is extending life by securing windings to prevent further wear (shorts) from vibration.

[@ericaschner3283]

Clearly you need to make a dozen identical quads with different motors on each and blind test them

[@Speeding_FPV]

I have a 5” quad with T-Motor Velox 2207 2450kv (4s) and they are top. 👌 I’m building another 5”. I was undecided which engine to buy... 😮 But with this video, I think so: I will choose the Xing 2550kv or the 2750kv (4s)! 🔥 Thank you JB

[@Marcus2750-u1t]

“Sorry you got to fat for me” 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣 classic Bardwell line

[@Rich-pe1tk]

I also wanted the wasps but were out of stock in the uk and went for the xing 2

[@zachcarrizales5038]

Bench top static thrust stands compare motors in that environment, not in a flying environment.

[@swartzfpv2020]

Hey bud I tried these and I'm not going to lie every time I crashed I bent a bell. Like 5 times in a row! I'm still running them but I'm going to end up replacing them with something else. I've also been trying tmotor velox on same quad crashed just as hard and haven't bent a bell yet

[@creationlabsinc.189]

Crashed into what? Concrete? Be honest. “Crashing” is a very broad term to use when describing durability. I’ve been running then too and I crash a lot trying crazy out if my league tricks and never bent a bell.

[@TheTherumble32]

My problem with the xing 2 wasnt bells bending because when it happened it was from a crash into concrete. My problem was they kept dropping magnets randomly as in i would fly a pack land change battery and arm and there would be a dropped magnet. I switched to the tmotor velox v2 veloce the royal blue ones and honestly they seem just by feel to be better made than the Xing2 and they cost a couple dollars less. I haven’t had time to really crash them so i cant speak on their long term durability but so far they seem great.

[@swartzfpv2020]

I didn't crash into concrete with the zings it was mostly like hard dirt. But I did crash the tmotor velox 2307 into a metal building and some concrete and I'm still using them right now. Honestly I think my luck with the zing is just bad because I had one crash in the yard and a stick or something jamed into the windings on a motor and cut just one winding wire into. The reason I think it's my luck is bc everyone talks about them being the next best thing since sliced bread and I'm over here trying to just get through a flight without breaking one lol

[@swartzfpv2020]

I know the ones I got was made on a Monday or a Friday lol 😆

[@MadDragon75]

We do the same thing with car audio. We test the power output of amps with a SMD power dyno.

[@RCOverKill]

Everyone said your 2407/1700kv we're too big for 5 inch, but I always felt it had the best throttle resolution of any quad I've built I was just flying about a year, but it felt better than the other 2. 2207/1800, and 2208/1800 kv.

[@flapjackfpv]

This is not an attack but a very serious statement. If Chris Rosser actually knew how to fly his opinion would contradict So much of the things he says and puts in his videos. I 100% disagree that 25 mm motors are overkill. I fly literally hundreds of packs through damn near everything and I can definitively tell you there is no motor out there that can perform nearly as well as kababs motors do (ALL OF THEM) A very close second is RcINpower then Xing2. The Xing2 2207 1855 kv... for sure my favorite basher 2207 ever. I’ve run three separate sets on my 2yr old iflight Cidora hd bnf And I can do things with this quad more consistently than I can with most of my other quads. Not including my kabab 25mm builds... but the Xing2 line has that protruding lip at the top of the bell which gives you the ability to bend the bell back (keychain style bottle opener works amazing) if you ding it which most other motors don’t...

[@complicatedbreakfast7645]

I got hooked on the NBD flows and still am

[@DarrenAllatt]

I’ve been flying motors that are a bit charcoal and haven’t noticed anything. Done it with the RCInPower 2105.5 and TMotor 2203.5

[@dmt_fpv61]

I run xing 2. 2207s and i love them

[@RCRitterFPV]

Think the Height width ratio has more to do with cooling. the wider motor can be pushed harder longer. possibly tuned higher. the 2107 might be good flor light cruising with the occasional punch out. but I suspect in a 700g quad with a gopro 9 on it... going to get bad heatsoak. the FPV cycle certainly have been getting heavier with the unibells. I use the FPV cycle on 5-7" frames. the 7" has biprops and about 500 auw.

[@brandonwoodford579]

I'm sorry I love kabab, and all his frames, but the fpvcycle 25mm are not my favorite due to weight. They for me are amp hogs, and makes my quad way way to heavy. I end up crusing them more than anything.

[@sgcdialler]

I honestly have a hard time recommending anything except the ECO II to most people. It's a middle-of-the-road motor with respectable specs and durability for a great price.

[@bearbeefpv]

As an amateur freestyle pilot it just doesnt make sense cashing in on higher value motors. In my experience a 30$ Motor doesnt live as long as two 15$ Motors. And you always have a risk of losing your drone. I wouldnt feel as free surfing some bando roofs as i am with my budget drones.

[@DonGFPV]

100%, it’s what I fly and when I need to replace one after crashing don’t feel bad at all since it’s so inexpensive.

[@cobynweston8124]

Unfortunately they’re only $3 cheaper per motor than Xing2 motors in Australia

[@the_reaper_fpv]

I love them, durable, cheap and look good.

[@BowOneFire]

They're good but a bit heavy

[@slogan9105]

#'s dont lie , nice work

[@cotees]

This channel is great btw!

[@tinexdFPV]

buy xing-e pro...they are perfect for freestyle...i had this xing2 and killed all in a short time...the bell slipped down and scratched the windings

[@mikeallenfpv]

Now I'm about to wash these f60s and see if I benched them for no reason 😅

[@galacticwolf5942]

I did a bit of math... comparing a couple of motors to the most efficient motor (2208 Xing) the wasp 1860kv motor is 111.2% efficient (thrust/W/gram) to the 2208 xing... and that is the most efficient as far as power efficiency to weight ratio

[@galacticwolf5942]

this does not take into consideration availability/price/features at all... it is just the most efficient as far as raw data goes

[@migstoledo3690]

Rcinpower all the way, ran the gts v2 in 2020 and never looked back its a tank btw, since then started using the smooX, wasp major series and the gts v3 2107 gts v3 2207 and gts v3 2004 for my 3.5" build oh yeah i still have 2 sets of brand new imperial motors which was free replacement from emerald due to desync 2107 on the apex build is fire@689 grams and thats with a hero 8

[@josephnewton4170]

When you flew them you did say it wasn't a bench test and was just a fly-by-feel experience.

[@nwfpv8681]

I fly pyrodrone e series motors, less than $20 a pop and I feel nothing when I shear one off lol and they fly great

[@user-vr1qv6qe7f]

Funny enough I got 2207 xing2's when you first suggested them. I don't really like them and prefer t-motor f40 pro v's on my bardwell build. I like the throttle response from the f40's better

[@MCsCreations]

Excellent choice, Joshua! Doesn't iFlight makes the Xing-E motors anymore?

[@DennisSattler]

Well dah. I've been using x-2's ever since they came out.

[@Hallenbeckjm]

@0:11 you reference a "JB Perfect Freestyle build" but on your channels all I see is older builds. Are you done with the new perfect build?

[@NOIZYB]

Josh you ever come by a pulaski Wendy’s In VA you’re meals on me lo i’m a store manager there

[@runpuppyfpv5744]

Fpvcycle motors are the best i have flown yet i have them on my 5 and on my 4 quads

[@IronMaidenless]

i might be the only one with a freestyle 4 inch nazgul with 2004 emax motors on it lmao

[@mikespeedyfpv321]

Great Video One Love

[@richardheedfpv9626]

Rcinpower/Geprc all day long. Budget motors have to be the emax. No brainer.

[@FreshPanda97]

Any Tipps? I Flow xing2 2207 1855 for 2 years now…BUT I hate the durability if I crash they always bend so badly that I have to switch them….i ask myself if the Rcinpower or Tmotor are more durable…I don’t care of the efficiency. I care for durability

[@justinslaight]

I have a lot better experience with full size GoPros with 25mm motors

[@akselamsrud8299]

I really want the Xing2 2207 motors, but I fly 4s and they only make a 2750kv version of the 2207 motor. Isn't that a bit high? Is going for 2306 a valid sacrifice to get 2550kv?

[@redfpv2787]

I may be a late to the party on this topic, but I want to give my opinion. Going to the 6 minute mark when you say that you will take bench results over the feeling you have when flying the quad, I personally disagree. I think bench results give a good baseline of information, but I always consider that a bench test is measuring the output of 1 motor, linked to a dedicated battery (meaning less voltage sag), and using a prop that is being loaded heavier from static thrust. In real flying situations, the motor's performance will change when all 4 motors are powered from 1 lipo and using props that are being loaded as they were intended.

[@jr_inc2249]

I bought 5 of those for my apex build from rdq last night😂

[@bentprops_]

LOL the fat girlfriend comment at the end

[@harleyqueen1337]

Is 2050kv the best for racing? Why not the 2500kv ?

[@brianlangford7278]

Curious about comparison of hoobywing motors,couple of which I own

[@2_hottieScotty]

I wonder why you didn’t just buy 3 different sets of the ones that you thought you might like.., as an experiment???

[@LalapopApple]

Smashed 6x amax performante "tinbucket" ....Xings still stay strong 😅

[@fabiom7078]

I think the FPV cycle motors might still have a better feel: The lower kv makes them more linear, but the bigger size makes up for the lower power all at the cost of weight. Another theory (not actually based on anything) is that the better ability to pull out of dives without the quad popping up that many people report is because these motors don't accelerate as fast and so when you punch the throttle too far after a dive, you have more time to correct and put it back down where other motors would already have sped up enough to make the quad jump up. Just some thoughts.

[@ShebanFPV]

Bench test and these graphs have nothing to do with real flying, the feel of aircraft. Kababs 25mm are 🔥 second are Rcinpower Smoox 2306, very similar in feel.

[@NOIZYB]

😂😂😂same i love these motors

[@deice3]

This reminds me: I've always been curious, why is smoking motors on FPV drones a thing? Surely the limits of the motors are known /can be tested, and the output limited below the threshold where it burns? I'm asking this with an open mind, I'm assuming there is a reason I just don't realize. Anyone know what it is?

[@bearbeefpv]

Because of Burst. You can send a motor with 40A for a sec but not for a min.

[@sgcdialler]

Every motor has a wattage rating, but every motor model has a different rating. There is nothing in the ESC that will artificially limit the power output, because the ESC doesn't know (or care) what the rating of the motor is. Things will also change when the motor starts to age or take damage too--any resistance will start pulling more current, more wattage, and can start to exceed its factory rating. Wattage ratings are also not a hard cap--it's a rating that is based on sustained output. You can exceed the rated output of a motor for short periods of time as long as the heat generated doesn't melt the wire coating. Heat really is the limiting factor of a motor's output, the wattage rating is correlated but not 100%, it's just a rule of thumb, if you will. There are motors out there with temperature sensing, but we don't use those in FPV, I think mostly because we don't want to carry the extra weight, and there's no real advantage to it when you're pushing machines to the limit like FPV pilots like to do.

[@creationlabsinc.189]

@@sgcdialler good explanation

[@JoshuaBardwellLivestreamClips]

Heat buildup in the motor is a function of the amps through the motor -- that's true. But amps sent by an ESC are not continuous. You can send 60 amps briefly and then 20 amps for a while, and the motor cools down. If you were to limit the max output of the ESC to the safe continuous amp rating of the motor, then you would severely limit peak power of the motor.

[@deice3]

Thanks for the explanations, I guess it makes sense that its difficult to make an perfectly accurate limiter. I guess I should think of it like sports cars: its up to the pilot not to redline the engine for too long.

[@slamonfpv]

What about t-motor ?

[@creationlabsinc.189]

I tried so many times to make those work for me. Durability was my main issue

[@slamonfpv]

@@creationlabsinc.189 oh really I've not had that trouble with them but I dont fly alot of concrete I have crashed them hard into trees and rock solid dirt they haven't skipped a beat

[@rctrix9063]

It's amazing watching how FPV has gone from sciencey to techy to enthusiasts. Not much design just tweakers.

[@Bri3051979]

RCinPower Fo life 🧬 GTv4