Windows on ARM TERRIBLE Software Support (Except for ALL These AMAZING Apps)!

[@FAT8893]

We definitely need more videos like this. We already talked enough about the X Plus/Elite performance, now it's time to shift focus on software support.

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

Still more to come. Gotta tackle some hardware compatibility too...

[@farishanafiah8461]

@@FAT8893 The only way for Windows ARM to grow is for software devs not to keep overglorifying macOS ARM. If it's not happening, then there's nothing much left. The chipset performance is already more than plenty for everyday use, no worries about it at all.

[@BrianGlaze]

Always happy to support Windows on ARM content!!

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

So frustrating how the only thing people seem to get traffic on is gaming or lying about VPN support or complaining about Adobe (but not complaining ABOUT adobe).

[@TamasKiss-yk4st]

Windows on ARM problem is not the lacking support for content creators, it's depends on developers, and they will rarely port their software to a deserted platform, because x86 Windows still have a way bigger market share, so more profit from 95% of the users like from 5% of the users.. this is what Apple solved it well, when they completly stopped to support x86 when M1 released, so developers doesn't need to choose between big market share or maybe to work for a dead platform (Windows Phone died because of the same reason, there wasn't enough native app in the app store, and why anybody should choose the more complicated way, when others offer a device with native app support for the same..)

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

And we dont want Apple's style in windows and Linux land. We dont want ONE singular authority to say "that's it, now everyone has to do it THIS way". But at the same time, this is also where we say "I choose to support the devs that do the work I want to see". It's not an issue with ARM. It's not an issue with having options and competition. Techies seem to want competition to be a bad thing. That's ludicrous. Intel and AMD wouldn't be delivering better chips today if it hadn't been for years of developemtn on ARM. More people should be using ARM.

[@MarxMarvelous37]

Thanks for calling out Audacity. I had similar good experience using the emulated experience for audio editing. I want an ARM version just for the geeky satisfaction of knowing it's running native (and a perf boost) but in all honesty it's more than good enough.

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

Yup. Same. I hope we'll see some good support for other DAWs, but I can get by with Resolve for now.

[@xmlthegreat]

Adobe shitting the bed on compatibility meant I had to move to Mac for video and audio editing recently.

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

And no one would blame you. Apple ARM chips are the best thing Apple is making right now.

[@TalynOne]

I moved onto DaVinci resolve, anything I can do to not give Adobe money is a win.

[@xmlthegreat]

@@TalynOne sadly, everyone else in the company already uses Adobe so I can't switch away. And we pay for stuff like Adobe stock on top so it isn't easy to convince the managers to drop all that.

[@farishanafiah8461]

@@xmlthegreat I totally understand you. Adobe still wins in terms of software integration. That's why I use both Adobe and BMD - the former for work purpose, the latter for personal use.

[@mozzinator]

I'm really liking your Windows Arm Videos. Supporting Xelite CPUs and not always complaining about them.

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

It's nice to have some real competition. AMD and Intel weren't getting it done until they got scared.

[@Yusufyusuf-lh3dw]

Most printers scanners multifunction devices dont have drivers for these arm laptops. And the generic driver for printers sucks big time. No paper selection, brightness, darkness selection etc. Its an absolute no go.

[@TalynOne]

Works fine for my multifunction laser printer/scanner out of the box. Then again it's 2024 and I use my printer maybe once a year, I don't think I used it last year at all.

[@Yusufyusuf-lh3dw]

@TalynOne Printers, scanners, Bluetooth devices are some very commonly used hardware by everyone. I haven't seen a snapdragon/arm driver in the download page for any device. It's very clear that you will hit multiple issues with compatibility if you use those snapdragon laptops as your primary PC. If you are a retired person who uses laptop for watching KZbin, checking emails, video call etc. Then yes, these are awesome.

[@TalynOne]

@@Yusufyusuf-lh3dw Because Windows uses standards based drivers. My bluetooth gamepads paired out of the box, no driver installs needed. USB devices are standards based, external drives, network adapters, hubs, audio devices, all of them just work. It's Linux where you have to recompile your kernel to get complex things like your audio to work properly. I'm a software developer and my ARM device has run everything I needed. It's usually people who know very little about computers that get stuck at the smallest hurdle or false information from others.

[@Yusufyusuf-lh3dw]

@TalynOne I know Windows very well because I'm a Windows system software developer. And I know that Windows generic drivers would only give you some common functions. Most devices will have their own tools and applications that rely on their own drivers, and none of those features will work. There are a ton of applications that have kernel mode driver interfaces, and none of those will work properly with snapdragon. Windows Bluetooth generic driver is absolute crap and any device that rely on that is sure to give you life long problems.

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

That's a pretty big jump right? "I dont see it EXPLICITLY mentioned that there's a standalone ARM app for this printer! That means the user MUST encounter roadblocks and pain points!" I have a networked Brother. It scans in high DPI. It prints. I don't know what else I'm supposed to do with it, but it worked seamlessly out of the box.

[@rainyd4293]

All tech KZbinrs only cater to those who work in the creative industry, those who are recording and editing videos only. Not a single tech KZbinr has shown how a device works well for those of us who are not in the creative industry.😒 On average, Windows laptops only last 3 years before they start to mess up. Nothing about this is ever mentioned by tech KZbinrs.

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

I mean, that's not really a thing? It is I guess if you always buy at the LOWEST end of the market, but I still have a Razer from 2016 that's still running well today.

[@Workaholic42]

Alex Ziskind for example has shown how these devices work for software developers. “Not a single KZbinr“ is a pretty bold statement, maybe search more thoroughly.

[@rainyd4293]

@@Workaholic42 I’m not a software developer. I have been searching high and low for full on proper reviews of Windows and MacBook devices that can actually handle my line of work. I use plenty of web editing (video and audio for work but we’re not like influencers), transcribing, heavy use of Microsoft apps and Zoom and Google meet. Not one of these KZbinrs ever address this. My Surface Laptop Go can’t handle my daily tasks, my Dell i5 slowed down after 2 years and is useless now, and the AMD Ryzen ThinkPad I’m using is sluggish (only smooth when web surfing or KZbin). So yes, not one KZbinr ever properly address this. The majority of us are not content creators. Duh!

[@rainyd4293]

@@SomeGadgetGuy Not all of us can afford the highest end laptops, duh.

[@Workaholic42]

@@rainyd4293 most reviews I've seen briefly mention that Microsoft Office, Teams, Edge, Visual Studio run flawlessly and fast on ARM. I can confirm that from short first hand experience. Zoom has a native client as well, so should be fine. Google Meet I'm not sure about. Maybe just give it a try and return the device if there are problems?

[@Dave102693]

I wish there was a laptop that can do gpu stuff on the level of Apple SoCs or dgpu, for battery life and efficiency

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

We're getting there. The new ARC graphics from Intel are pretty good. Radeon has been decent. I would imagine Qualcomm and Mediatek will both show off solid year over year improvements on integrated graphics in 2025. The Dimensity 9300 is out pacing 12th gen core i7 Iris graphics, and that's a fanless chip in a phone running at under 12W. Now that there's actual competition, this stuff will cycle pretty quick.

[@earncrypto5601]

Recents Ryzen igpu performance is awesome. I mean 880M can run AAA games smoothly at medium/high settings. It can compete with a midrange dgpu

[@SalivatingSteve]

@@earncrypto5601Yeah 880M is performing as well as a 4050.

[@josher14]

Hey juan! nice vid for sure.. I had the pro 11 x plus base model for 2 months and i'm still amazed that qualcomm has still not delivered on monthly driver updates and does not provide the level of gpu driver updates that amd and intel do for gaming.. and they are coming out with new skus of the x plus already and qualcomm's driver website page is a bunch of text saying go to the forums or talk to your oem

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

Yeah. That absolutely will be a challenge for Qualcomm. They did the same with phone chips. The SD865 in 2020 was touted as being more robust, and that Qualcomm would be improving performance with driver updates. I think we got 1. It's also why I draw that line in the sand, that techies SHOULD be able to understand, but keep purposely being obtuse about. I don't recommend it for gaming, but it can play a lot of fun games. That should be easy to grok. When MediaTek joins this space (potentially partnering with NVIDIA for their GPU) and when AMD considers an ARM line, and X86 catches ARM power efficiency, then Qualcomm will have to step up and compete, or they'll get buried. That's how competition should work.

[@sucafrutpi]

Soooo right about MS paywalling 4K support. I use the horrendously unoptimized Open Shot, because of that.

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

There are a few other apps to try now with good ARM support. Worth looking around 👍

[@saadshafi8649]

Hi Juan, With the release of the latest Intel and AMD chips that are geared towards battery life and efficiency, and have performances that are almost equivalent to the snapdragon X elite chips, is there still benefits left for the ARM chips on windows? Keeping in my mind that those won't have any compatibility issues with legacy software, and the consumers wouldn't necessary have to find workarounds for their cases while still having the benefits of an ARM chip.

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

I mean it's right there in you comment. "almost equivalent". Windows needs to get BROAD. ARM is working great, and will be a better option for more portable systems, and eventually fanless tablets. X86 still has a lot to offer for more workstation grade gear, and it's nice that it's getting better for power. We wouldnt have that improvement if ARM didn't exist. Lunar Lake is basically as close to an ARM chip (and fabbed by TSMC) as Intel could get. And on the horizon we might start seeing RISC show up. Techies SHOULD want competition. Being a fanboi for Intel or AMD is what got us into the mess we've been in for the last five or six years.

[@christianr.5868]

I say wait for nvidia’s arm chip. Lunar lake had to sacrifice a lot to get its efficiency, nvidias arm igpu could be awesome. That said, it really just depends on your preference

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

NVIDIA is going to be an odd duck here. I think their main ARM play will probably be Nintendo over the next year. I dont think they will take another stab at a mainstream CONSUMER chip again, but I've been wrong before. The other rumor that's interesting is that MediaTek might be working with NVIDIA on a GPU for their PC SOC. Given how awesome the performance had been on Dimensity recently, that could be a fun collab.

[@alex590263]

I have had a Surface Pro X for a few months and I am currently very happy with it, especially since 24H2. The only things I regret about it are the lack of support for the moment for forticlient and vulkan driver (Not the case on x elite and x plus) as well as the somewhat shaky support for versions of directX before directX 12. Apart from that, the tablet is still relatively powerful with very good battery life, even allowing you to play somes PS2 games without too much trouble, some slowdowns but it's okay.

[@RyRyTheBassGuy]

Until Cubase, Studio One, Audient and all the VSTs I use support ARM on Windows I can't even entertain the thought of moving over. Sucks.

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

I feel audio might be the slowest to make that trek. In large part because Microsoft is NOT helping pro audio out at all.

[@RyRyTheBassGuy]

@@SomeGadgetGuy I know Steinberg has a developer version of Cubase for ARM in production that they say MS is helping them with. Seems to be for plugin and interface manufacturers to test on. Hopefully we can see some progress in 2025.

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

It would be a nice change of pace, but working on UNIVERSAL pro audio, hardware, and low latency support would help a lot. Instead of going dev by dev, MS could shore this up for everyone like Apple did.

[@RyRyTheBassGuy]

@@SomeGadgetGuy I agree that MS needs the equivalent of Core Audio (even if a good ASIO driver has lower latency).

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

Yeah man. At least give everyone a better baseline.

[@thetechboyorg]

Wait davinchi resolve works on ARM? Hmm..maybe i should get an arm pc. Though, I want to use Adobe apps.

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

Yup. Resolve 19 is out of BETA. It's running really well.

[@thetechboyorg]

@@SomeGadgetGuy nice

[@TheTheShizzler]

Personally not a big fan of Ubuntu myself and have been LOVING Pop OS and you're right about the free office; it's great

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

I keep playing with other distros, and then practical things keep dragging me back to ubuntu.

[@jgj4430]

@@SomeGadgetGuy just keep using. I started out with Ubuntu when I was looking at Linux. Now I am a semi dangerous user of OpenSuse.

[@maddada]

Great video! Thank you for this. What are your thoughts about Windows on ARM now that Intel Lunar Lake is out and it closed the gap in terms of battery life and heat with snapdragon (while keeping full backwards compatibility and better GPU/Gaming performance)

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

It wouldn't exist without ARM. It's built as close to an ARM chip as Intel could make it, and Intel is in rough shape. People who appreciates competitive products should be thanking the folks who support ARM pcs because AMD and Intel weren't getting it done by themselves. From here we should expect chips from MediaTek, another gen of Snapdragon X next year, and rumors of AMD considering and ARM line too. Windows needs to go broad. ARM and X86 today, and RISC too in the near future.

[@maddada]

@@SomeGadgetGuy I'm totally with you. So happy Apple and Qualcomm lit a fire under Intel and AMDs asses, the jumps in efficiency (ppw, heat, noise, battery life) have been great! Speaking from a software engineering perspective it'll be hard to develop Arm and x86 versions of the same apps. It also doubles the testing load. That's one of the reasons Apple pushed everyone to move to arm in a relatively short period of time. On the windows side it seems that this isn't possible and we'll keep having this fragmentation issue.. Especially since the desktop users don't care as much about power efficiency and legacy apps and drivers support can be spotty at times with Qualcomm. Architecturaly ARM or RISC are the future for sure, but I hope Microsoft manages this transition well and don't let it take too long or the fragmentation will get worse and frustrate non-technical consumers.

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

It's always going to be the difference in platforms. DO business EXCLUSIVELY Apple's way, or accept that Windows and Linux will always be broad. It does tax developers more, but it's telling to me that smaller dev teams and FOSS apps seem to move quickly on ARM native code for Windows and Linux, and the companies with huge teams and TONS of resources and ALL the money tend to drag their heels...

[@maddada]

@SomeGadgetGuy depends on how the software was built.. If it's a newer or smaller codebase, or if it's using tech like electron then it's much easier to port than something like After Effects or Solid works for example. Let's see what the future holds but I hope Microsoft doesn't fumble supporting both or we'll end up in a very bad situation.

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

Oh I know I'm simplifying a bit, but your last comment should also be guiding this conversation. Adobe. People pay a HUGE subscription cost for the idea that Adobe will stay on top of the market and keep apps updated, and deliver the best polish and new features. You're PAYING THEM to adopt best practices and support devices. So if illustrator is SO difficult to port to a new arch, and Affinity (with far fewer resources) can get it done on older ARM dev kits, what are we paying Adobe to do? Your last comment there literally helps us evaluate which devs are taking their revenue and investing it back into their software, and which devs are taking that revenue to make shareholders wealthier. I know which company I'd rather support.

[@leonidas14775]

Haha the copilot key is shaping up to be another Bixby button. People's interest in it is limited to how to remap it.

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

It was a dumb thing to add, but that key has historically found no consistent purpose in windows land LOL.

[@FilmedbyFresh]

Hey Juan 👋🏾

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

😊👋

[@davok87]

Nice video! Does OpenVPN Client works on Windows ARM?

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

openvpn.net/community-downloads/

[@Dragonblaster1]

Norton 365's VPN works fine on my SL7.

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

Well yeah, but one guy said he saw a reddit post from three years ago about another person trying a VPN on Windows RT back in 2017 and it DINT EVAN WURK! So checkmate nerds!

[@sucafrutpi]

To be fair, a lot of apps aren't particularly well optimized even for Windows. Most developers focus on getting things to work, but not work amazingly well. It's time consuming and expensive and unfortunately most people are not actually testing their performance against each other. They just need to not be egregiously bad. It is especially insulting with Adobe, because unlike many smaller developers, they are a money press and have plenty of resources. But instead, the answer is "well just use the kneecappped online tools" from them 🙄

[@vin.k.k]

Not sure 7ZIP or any other program is needed since Windows already added native support.

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

Needed? Maybe not. I still like using 7zip tho, and it's a proper way to test the data throughput in ways you cant check just going through a file explorer.

[@vin.k.k]

@@SomeGadgetGuy at least there's an option for people who want to get it done. I understand your specific use case.

[@EZBlast]

I have the yoga - waiting for a Linux OS to try.

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

Same. Qualcomm kicked off a little chatter with an experimental build, but I'd like to see more progress.

[@JeskidoYT]

more love for powertoys! yes!

[@DScottMoore]

Excellent video! I just received a Samsung Galaxy Book 4 Edge yesterday, and this video was incredibly helpful. You have earned a new subscriber.

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

It's fun to dig into. A new architecture is a good time to re-evaluate how you work.

[@emo137]

hello sir,can you try to install metatrader 5 on arm? thanks

[@ragingtyga]

I have a surface pro 11 and I love it, does everything I need. I'm a reservist in the military and it supports my smart card login, Office runs great, my streaming apps run great, I tested OBS and it works fine with my go pro and camera capture for streaming, the ink to text recognition is super fast so I find myself using the pen way more than I did before, there's also a new Microsoft Journal app... I kinda of like it more than one note. In terms of gaming, I use it for light gaming, I instead a few Microsoft games through the store app like Gears of War, MVCI, Minecraft, and Injustice 2, and then Steam and loaded Bombrush cyberfunk and and Azure striker gunvolt for now. I have a game pass sub so I do some cloud gaming as well if I want to play games like Forza Motorsport 8, or Starfield

[@io_inc]

Give us developers time guys, the apps will come. Arm on PC is a good thing, trust me

[@GeetMadan]

I haven’t been able to load windows sub system for Android on my base model surface pro. Is that the case for you snapdragon elite as well?

[@farishanafiah8461]

WSA is going EOL in a few months time anyway.

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

There are ways to take WSA and "force" it to work on these systems, but I haven't taken the time to try and get that working. github.com/snickler/WSA-Patched/releases

[@GeetMadan]

@@SomeGadgetGuy thank you! I will have to check it out. I hope there are forks like this even after EOL. This is such a cool functionality.

[@gigamoment]

Even with the better support, the disaster here is the Windows OS itself. It's 2024 and nothing has changed in reality on Windows OS. It's Windows Vista with some tweaks in the UI. We need a completely new OS for the new era.

[@farishanafiah8461]

@@gigamoment There will be a new successor eventually.

[@gigamoment]

@@farishanafiah8461 I can't see any successor in the horizon. Can you? At this point MacOS is the only real "current-era" OS.

[@Dave102693]

If only Kdenlive was ready

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

WSL?

[@Kraszer]

Does emulating android apps work?

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

WSA isn't working directly from MS, but there are some projects reviving it.

[@impulsesystems]

Firefox? Hmmm…that’s not very Brave.

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

LOL I like Brave, but FireFox has my momentum.

[@IndianaRoy]

This whole "arm has no software" makes me remember when I switched to Wayland on Linux Instead of trying to force the old x11 apps to work I changed to native Wayland apps that did the same or better

[@SunsetNova]

Agreed many reviewers have been very snarky towards ARM

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

It's nice to have a good competitive option now. Silly to see techies trashing it.

[@farishanafiah8461]

@@SunsetNova Because there's no certain fruit logo in it. 🤭🙃

[@AgentZeroNine1]

Intel's Lunar Lake looks like a winner in terms of efficiency, compatibility and power. RIP Windows on ARM. Fingers crossed AMD joins the super efficient and cool boat Apple kick-started.

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

Maybe? Where can I buy one and really use it?

[@AgentZeroNine1]

​@@SomeGadgetGuyseems to be by the end of the month.

[@christianr.5868]

We can’t really say that because no one’s tested it

[@ragingtyga]

Intel isn't anywhere close to AMD's latest mobile chip in performance vs efficiency which isn't maching ARM. You're also forgetting other things like instant on and better and smoother wakeup that ARM offers. The primary reason apple jumped ahead in efficiency.... Is buy switching to ARM. It's just inherently better for mobile because it was designed from the beginning with devices like phones and tablets in mind

[@DizY_8]

​@@ragingtygaInstant on somehow manages to work just fine on SteamOS and it's forks. Windows is just a crap OS. Always has been.

[@jgj4430]

3 letters - PWA.

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

I KNOW RIGHT!

[@yensteel]

What does that mean? Please wait awhile?

[@Lollllllz]

​@@yensteelprogressive web apps

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

It's a running coversation we've had where if we got more consistent support for web apps, then a LOT of the issues folks have between different platforms would be a non-issue.

[@jgj4430]

@@yensteel Progressive Web Apps

[@ralphz3849]

I agree with the sarcasm/criticism in the reviews by other KZbinrs on ARM laptops. They are reviews by KZbinrs for other KZbinrs. Most people are not ‘influencers,’ don’t create content, nor do they run performance measurement tools for a living. As for the vendors who don’t move to ARM quickly, it is their loss as competitors will take full advantage to dominate a new market

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

It's the frustrating part right? I'd rather just spend more time talking about the fun things that work really well, than fixate on the small number of bits that aren't working great (but impact only a tiny part of the consumer market).

[@RAZTubin]

@@SomeGadgetGuy I purchased the Surface 7 with Snapdragon X Elite. I am loving it. I have it connected to two monitors. I get power from the monitor using a Thunderbolt 4 cable. My recommendation for anyone who buys a Snapdragon laptop is to upgrade immediately. Download the latest drivers and also upgrade the BIOS. Thus far, everything I need is running: MS Office (Word, Excel, PowerPoint), Quicken, Python, the apps for Netflix, KZbin TV, Hulu, Disney+, ESPN, Paramount, Spotify, Xbox games, Schwab’s Thinkorswim, and Fidelity TraderPro. To test I actually ran all the above apps at the same time. No issues. The McAfee antivirus works (I already had a license), but as everyone knows, it is slow. I noticed a performance hit with McAfee, so I uninstalled it. I am using MS Defender. I may try Bitdefender in the future, but for now, MS Defender is more than adequate. My next test is Hyper-V to create a virtual machine with a flavor of Linux.

[@david_wv]

still in dillema because i was going to change from nordvpn to protonvpn and at the same time i want to upgrade from surface laptop 4 to laptop 7

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

Wireguard? protonvpn.com/support/wireguard-manual-windows

[@david_wv]

@@SomeGadgetGuy ah thanks. didn't know I could use wireguard with proton

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

Yup. Been using wireguard on older ARM systems. It's worked REALLY well.

[@yensteel]

Can confirm that Autocad 2024 works to an extent, on parallels m2 Mac. So… It would likely also work on Arm windows.. I think.

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

I have ZERO experience with CAD software. I did try kicad, and that worked, but I had NO idea what to do with it LOL.

[@jimmyfiredragon8582]

First !

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

My man!

[@JudgeFredd]

DOA…don’t switch to ARM PC since Intel has just annonced new CPU

[@soberanisfam1323]

How’s the battery life

[@farishanafiah8461]

As if everyone is going Intel (which I don't).

[@JudgeFredd]

@@farishanafiah8461 fully x86 compatibility with same power consumption than ARM…

[@farishanafiah8461]

@@JudgeFredd I'll wait until I see the new Intel CPU in action. We already seen Intel CPUs with under 20W TDP before, but none achieved the same battery runtime as ARM.

[@SomeGadgetGuy]

Maybe if I JUST keep giving Intel all my money and ignore the competition from AMD, Apple, Qualcomm, and the potential of archs like ARM and RISC, maybe Intel will eventually give me the chip I want!!! Oh wait... It only happened because Intel has been getting CLOCKED for almost four years, and even QUALCOMM was able to work a Microsoft deal. Dang. Even if Intel delivers a great chip, seems the only reason they were motivated to do so was because of ARM...