Is Abortion Murder? | Middle Ground

[@kvnxmars]

jubilee really has to understand that we wouldn’t mind watching 75minute videos of these discussions and stop editing so aggressively when the discussions become interesting update (2024) : jubilee has been incorporating 50-70min videos of these middle ground discussions & i'm addicted😭

[@catherinelabrooy5606]

Totally agree

[@dub4life777]

Seriously!

[@MissShellGrimes]

Agreed!

[@noidea2568]

Maybe they could make a 2nd channel where they upload almost unedited footage (almost, because there could be situations where you need to cut something, like if someone gets a nosebleed or something like that), so we can see the whole thing.

[@dma0828]

Yesssss!

[@cantiphernelia]

when none of the pro life people walked up for abortions to be accessible to victims of rape or incest, my jaw dropped to the floor.

[@TheSugarPlumGirl]

Yes! This!

[@matt1325]

How should the value of the fetus change the way its conceived.

[@lukemorrison4658]

In a rape conception situation, there are three people involved: the perpetrator, the victim, and the baby conceived. Who deserves to be killed? The perpetrator? Maybe... The victim? Certainly not! The baby? Certainly not as well. Innocent parties should not be killed.

[@thefirstchampster]

@@lukemorrison4658 you're only looking at one half of the equation, and it's a pretty black and white view of a complex situation.

[@xiphosofficial]

@@lukemorrison4658 and when the baby gets neglected because the mother cant stand looking at the result of her rapists actions?

[@msi8311]

I would never want to get an abortion myself, but I would never want that right taken away from someone else. No one should force me to have an abortion, I shouldn’t force anyone to have a child.

[@mrbaeman39lolman60]

Then protect them from rape kekekekekekeke

[@elmstreet2036]

exactly i personally would never have an abortion but im hardcore pro-choice.

[@justlol7281]

Should you have the right to murder?

[@bookmilla8616]

Exactly.

[@toyosioyejobi309]

If that child doesn't deserve life because it's weak and dependent and troubles someone then aren't we all doomed. Please don't be shamed into thinking you are controlling anyone's body. Take a stand!

[@auroradazed]

when i was going through a miscarriage i had to go to a women's clinic, and there were a bunch of prolifers outside yelling and handing out little toy embryo babies trying to get me to "stop," when i wasn't even there for an abortion. i don't think prolifers realize that women's clinics aren't just for abortions, women go there for normal checkups, medicine, breast screenings, menstrual issues and more. even if a woman was going there for an abortion, that's her choice to make. but the last f*cking thing a woman who is miscarrying wants to see is a bunch of people calling her a monster and then trying to hand her tiny toy babies. it's so traumatizing. prolifers don't ever consider the lives of the people they're screaming at and trying to control, and it's almost laughable how much they contradict themselves.

[@progenderrole1329]

fizzickle or a.. 🔁kimmickoll!!😬

[@feliciatholen]

I'm so sorry that happened to you

[@Aubrey2004-j4k]

Hope you doing ok now

[@iluvsubliminals]

Wow smfh

[@christineharris7950]

Which abortion clinic dies breat screens?

[@elizabethblythe9009]

I think whether you agree with abortion or not, people are always going to do it. So allowing them a safe manner to get it done, will ultimately lead to less deaths.

[@nala6846]

^This

[@akshaykamasamudram6983]

Based

[@HaHeiX]

While that is true and I am pro-life, I think more thought should be put in the process of intercourse, how often you do it and how careful. Usually abortions happen when both parents are careless

[@tn1340]

No law should allow any taking of human life. Abortions are 100% unsafe for innocent human life

[@wamsly2334]

That is the stupidest logic. Ur the kind of parent that says, it’s going to happen I’d rather have it happen at my house. Instead of educating your kids to where they decide to not do things because they understand the right thing to do.

[@taeminislove]

"That's why I'm pro life because many women are pressured to abort when they don't want to" So pressuring women to abort is bad but pressuring women to give birth when they don't want to is okay? It should go both ways.

[@teofilamadrigal2931]

I don't believe she ever said the second part.

[@taeminislove]

@@teofilamadrigal2931 Like I said, it goes both ways. If you think it's not okay to pressure women to abort, it shouldn't be okay to pressure women into giving birth when they want to opt out of it due to their circumstances.

[@flashstar1234]

I think what she means is that many women who deep down feel like abortion is a moral wrong are coerced into having an abortion. Not to say that this is true for every women but she really just wants those women who deep down think abortion is wrong to be pressured to having one which is what the pro-abortion side would advocate for.

[@hiteshbhagat8437]

There's a simple solution, if you want the baby keep it, if you don't want the baby, if you're not ready financially or emotionally or physically to take care of another living being one should be allowed to get an abortion. It's really not that complicated.

[@teofilamadrigal2931]

@@hiteshbhagat8437 it is that complicated, your acting as if an abortion is a simple choice, like if your not deciding the fate of a human being.

[@cuban360]

I think it would be great to bring a person from the scientific community into this conversation, for both sides. I feel it would bring in a POV of science into this and would further evolve the conversation.

[@THome92]

How can there be a person from a scientific community for both sides? You wanna bring an Astrologist (not a real science) to the conversation on the side of the anti-abortion community? lmao

[@blahblahblah6898]

@@THome92 nah bro the morality question only comes into play after defining what’s actually life and what when said life being ended is considered a murder. For instances does life start at the first second of conception when it’s almost guaranteed a baby will come out at about nine months forward? Or does a life start when that being has any kind of brain activity? Science does not have an answer to that question but it could still enlighten everybody present about the specific weeks brain activity occurs what’s actually happening with the fetus before and after that moment etc… I personally believe that abortion (at legal period) is morally acceptable and even more important that that is socially necessary… At the same time i think that people should be educated abt and it and ONE HUNDRED % know abt the potential risks AND trauma caused by abortion which could be explained by a medical worker etc…

[@abraarhuq9221]

@Collegestar prob jus less experience with abortion itself

[@abraarhuq9221]

@@THome92 lmaoooo there are plenty of pro-life doctors, I dont understand why yall think pro-choice is science-backed

[@toonasty6939]

@@blahblahblah6898 lmaoooo get the pope

[@ChanelStar1]

*The hardest period of my life: I had a miscarriage where I would not stop bleeding. I wanted to go the natural route so I opted for the pill. When I went to pick up my prescription from the pharmacy, the pharmacist would not release my medicine because it was against his beliefs. I had to call the hospital to get in touch with my doctor who had just went on vacation. After two hours of crying, being in pain and sheer embarrassment, my medicine was released. I took the pills and continued to bleed for two months. After two months I was scheduled for D&C abortion. Abortions are now banned in my state. I can't even think of what I would've had to go through if I did not have the option to protect my health by having the proceedure.*

[@TheLegendOfRandy]

Look up the tragic death of Savita Halappanavar. That's where we're heading with these barbaric backwards laws. Thank goodness you survived and I'm sorry for your loss!

[@brownbrownbrown2938]

@@TheLegendOfRandy running stop signs causing a T-bone accident has the EXACT same cause and effect that a vaccine leads to a 20th booster

[@ChanelStar1]

@@TheLegendOfRandy *Thank you for your sentiments. I just looked it up and that is so sad. These are the reasons why history is so important. So that we can adjust and make effective changes.*

[@progenderrole1329]

@@ChanelStar1 fizzickle or a.. 🔁kimmickoll!!😬

[@progenderrole1329]

@@TheLegendOfRandy fizzickle or a.. 🔁kimmickoll!!😬

[@facewednesday]

When we filmed this episode I was extremely nervous because I didn't want to reveal certain details due to fear of my loved ones being criticized on social media, but some of the things that I did reveal that ended up being edited out of the video would of definitely given more perspective as to why I'm Pro Abortion, as well as add to the dialogue of this sensitive conversation. At the end of the day, I'm a bit disappointed with this final product of a video, and I wish we could of came to some sort of breakthrough / agreement pertaining to what's truly wrong or right when it comes to abortion.

[@elliegrant3838]

I loved how you put yourself in a women’s shoes thinking how they would feel. I feel like a lot of men don’t take the time to think about that when it comes to abortion. I really wished that I could’ve heard you talk more but I felt like you kept on getting cut off. It’s really upsetting hearing that you had to fear about your loved ones getting criticized. I wish that everyone could be as open minded and accepting as you.

[@madeleinewalker838]

Yeah I do feel like there could have been more explanation into people’s stories and conclusions. I really liked your perspective in to the video. It is hard to look at a perspective other than the own with your two eyes, but doing it shows you a much greater picture of the world.

[@etelvinauacunzo2185]

Hi Asher, I dont know if you will read this but please, some of the comments you made about the fetus developing were very offensive. I do not know your personal experience or why you had to have two abortions, but please be a little considerate of life, all life beggins there, in the womb as a little cell, but then this becomes wonderful people who may or may not grow to be great humam beings, such as yourself. We all were just a clump of cells as you said, but some woman respected you enough to allow you to live, is it really asking too much for other women to at least take that into consideration, pregnancy is not just about someones body, it is also about a new life inside of you, being considerate of other's rights including a fetus is also a form of love and respect. I love how the black girl called it for it is "a baby" at least she is aware that she chose to take the life of a baby away, and I personally believe it is important to aknowledge that.

[@jeremysmith9694]

You're clearly on the fence and don't completely stand for much of anything

[@iimdone]

@@jeremysmith9694 he wasnt on the fence at all. just because you might agree with some opposing points doesn't disregard the fact that youre still on the side youve always been on.

[@athmaid]

I like that yellow shirt guy is taking his time, even reconsidering his decisions. He is constantly re-evaluating, he doesn't have everything set in stone

[@cool28990]

He had two fuckin abortion. Why couldn't he use contraception. Are you being fuckin serious.

[@athmaid]

@@cool28990 we don't know what happened, maybe the mother said she was on birth control but she lied or it didn't work. Don't be so quick to judge

[@razing717]

@@athmaid thanks gorden

[@razing717]

@@athmaid i meant gordon ramsay

[@syviiiia2812]

@@cool28990 you realize those don’t always work right?

[@proudestmonkee07]

Why did Jubilee select the term "pro-abortion" instead of "pro-choice"? Many people who are pro-choice do not consider themselves pro-abortion. Little Dove explained this well - that the choice is what's important - not that we encourage abortion. It should be a choice of what the woman will endure.

[@acorns269]

You're 100% right. I've heard of pro choice people who dont like abortion but believe people should still have the choice for one

[@qais3323]

Well they probably asked them if they were pro-abortion and they said yes. Nowhere in this video does it say that they are pro-choice. Most of these people, especially that despicable women (Rockie) celebrate and like abortion.

[@franknstein5376]

Conceptually being pro-choice means being in favour of the legalization of abortion, even if you personally wouldn't use it. Honestly I prefer factual terms like being pro- and anti- abortion to the use of pro-choice or -even worse (because completely dishonest) - pro-life

[@kirirolls]

@@acorns269 my mom is like that, she acknowledges that ppl should have a choice even tho she doesn’t like abortions !

[@proudestmonkee07]

@@franknstein5376 I understand what you're saying though disagree. Many people who believe it should be a choice are anti-abortion and prefer "pro-choice" (though of course, not all). For instance, people who believe abortions are wrong because of their religion but also understand that their religious belief should not determine the laws of a secular country.

[@fbyagami]

Taking away a resource for women ISN’T supporting women.

[@miffynic]

Yes! I can’t believe one of the pro life supporter in this video claims she’s a feminist 😧😧 like make it make sense

[@yellowyellowyellow7894]

No eating cereal from toilets

[@henryb.7723]

Tearing apart baby girls in the womb (literally limb-from-limb) is NOT supporting women.

[@Mars-5103]

It also is supporting women by preventing more women from being born.

[@raymondotoole2600]

Should we support women more and encourage them to not have an abortion ?

[@thefrenchiestfry8147]

Something that bothers me about people who are anti-abortion is when they say 'I know someone who was raped and became pregnant, and they love that child,' as if one woman's experience should or even could speak for all the others'.

[@jamorains]

When pro-choice people cite extreme circumstances they are merely trying to exploit your moral position. For a pro-life person to not advocate for the unborn IN those extreme circumstances would be morally inconsistent, which is untenable.

[@jackmiehoff7530]

Honestly I don’t think it matters wether the mom loves that child or not, the child deserves a life regardless of the sins of the father.

[@teeciewalk]

@@jamorains 👏🏾

[@MH-be6hr]

You are blatantly ignoring the rights of the pregnant woman. That is morally untenable and violates the Constitutional ban on involuntary servitude.

[@ricardofalcon7889]

But here you guys are brining up one woman’s experience of rape and how that speaks for all women getting abortions

[@angiekahler2600]

I find it hilarious that Christine is Anti abortion because she was pressured to get an abortion. It’s almost like no one likes being told what DECISION to make.

[@AdelTheForsaken]

I'm perplexed that she's lost on that herself.

[@laurie7267]

She said she heard his heart beat and there was NO DOUBT it is a life and then she also knows women are coerced into getting an abortion and she wants to help those women. She said multiple times it is her mission to essentially help girls before they abort. ❗️Confirmation bias, you hear what you want to and twist words❗️

[@x.lamaschingonaa_]

Yet pro abortion people don't like to be encouraged to keep their babies so who really likes not like being told to what decision to make 💯

[@ashurahisaacs7568]

The irony 😂😂🙏

[@frieza2235]

A lot of pro life people are hypocrites

[@beatricedorian9908]

Yknow, I'm really happy Jubilee brought in people with actual experience with abortion. What I hate about some of their videos is that they often bring in average Joe's with an opinion and little to no facts. Bring in Doctors who work at abortion clinics or used to, bring in people who have spent years studying these controversial issues.

[@kristianprigl7895]

I totally agree with you

[@ShavonMersing]

I would love to hear from doctors who perform and doctors who used to and don’t and doctors who don’t agree with performing it.

[@Shamuto7]

That is a notable debate I would like to listen given their experiences along with other people who are involved in it rather than a random volunteer with their baseless opinions.

[@malayrobinson7633]

Sometimes it must be really hard for some topics to find people who want to openly share their stories on KZbin. With this one particularly people might not want to be looked at different differently in their own personal communities by sharing their views.

[@daxthecatofwales4645]

Like they did with the one of COVID and Flat Earthers. They brought in scientists and doctors who laid down straight facts

[@loveemillyy]

I agree we need an uncut version of this, it seems that there was so much that was said and the video was cut short

[@ccole742]

I laughed out loud out loud as a part about government resources! I’m surprised nobody talked about maternity leave. six weeks is not enough time with a newborn then finding and paying for daycare which can cost more than rent. it’s ridiculous

[@kristinccha]

That is so true

[@ぼじん-o5r]

I SWEAR

[@richardabayomi3247]

Well six months is very generous considering the fact that a company is losing money for that

[@loopymomy2532]

@@richardabayomi3247 not really considering companies have no problem dropping extra work on the other employees

[@richardabayomi3247]

@@loopymomy2532 you are getting free money without work and still complaining ...... you don't seem to realise companies are a business not charity

[@ashleysmith7632]

I’m sad they didn’t discuss what happens after the child its born in more detail. I think it’s a key component to the discussion.

[@JoeyB0b]

It really isn't.

[@ESCL2004]

@@JoeyB0b how come?

[@JoeyB0b]

@@ESCL2004 Because it has nothing to do with the ethics of abortion. The relevant issue is personhood and competing rights.

[@eveliinahannele]

@@JoeyB0b you can't just ban something and not look the bigger picture and issues it will cause. Studies show banning abortions doesn't lower the number of them. But it will increase the death of women and illegal business etc. around this subject. Forcing women to go through pregnancy is mentally damaging not only to women but it will also affect the development of that fetus and the wellbeing after the baby is born.

[@JoeyB0b]

@@eveliinahannele If it's a person it can be murder. I assume most people have no issue with laws against murder. I think you are misunderstanding me some too. I am for abortion until 20-23 weeks or so because until that point I wouldn't consider the fetus a person.

[@srujanam5911]

Bro I lost my trust in society when they asked "abortion should be accessible for rape and incest survivor" and they said NO

[@ussypussyfussy]

Lmao you should see the presidential candidates interview in the philippines. There's this one guy that keeps justifying everything from his personal experience and religion

[@srujanam5911]

@@ussypussyfussy that's fvcked up

[@connordoesexist1807]

@@srujanam5911 What's even more fucked up, is that while birth control are not 100% effective and all, what about sex education? A lot of people simply don't know anything about sex or about the other sex's biological stuff. Which reminds me, the people who are putting anti-abortion laws are extremists. On that thought, what's fucked up is criminalizing natural miscarriages and stillborns. Having miscarriages and such are already traumatic. Being put into jail is the cherry on top. Back to politics and the law, it's not about having common welfare anymore. It's simply power.

[@deanonfire7503]

What I hated was in the previous segment, Sebastian was open to the idea of legislation to keep it as an option for rape & incest. And then didn't come forward.

[@siesie8827]

you didn’t understand the question. those ppl are in VULNERABLE states. what if that was their last time to actually have a kid ? not only that could happen. but now they gonna regret not having the child and is gonna re live that trauma because they had a “choice”

[@Alex-ch7cd]

10:44 you cannot say "scientifically" and "I believe" in the same sentence without contradicting yourself

[@calmite]

You can believe something based off of scientific analysis

[@Alex-ch7cd]

@@calmite I agree, however she is trying to state it as a fact, contradicting herself in the process

[@a41randomglitch38]

@@Alex-ch7cd no she just worded it weird. she used that word believe meaning "i base my opinion on" these scientific facts

[@yellowishgreendragon.-.]

She lost any validity the moment she tried to claim people who have been assaulted are worse than their abusers for seeking abortions.

[@zoyadulzura7490]

That wording bugged me, too.

[@JaedumDiaries]

I would love if middle ground had a cut version and uncut version.

[@cadavi9512]

I would love a bigger, longer & uncut version too!

[@enrijuan96]

I think it would show bias to one side.

[@JaedumDiaries]

@@enrijuan96 I don’t think so cause everyone has a chance to talk and get all their thoughts out.

[@treycoble4331]

stopp

[@Lilys0609]

@@treycoble4331 ?

[@Orange56222]

“As a Christian” should never be in the conversation when it comes to legislation

[@Slader77]

Not very freedom of speech and freedom if religion of you. Religion is just organized sets of beliefs. They are just as valid as non-religion based beliefs. You think muslims forget about islam when deciding on who they want to vote for?

[@robertculling7514]

why cant she speak from personal experience ?? everyone else was sharing their personal experiences !! 😊😊😊😊😊

[@badussywar8938]

@@robertculling7514 Yes but, when passing LAWS, religion cannot be a part of it. We have separation of church and state btw

[@zachman5150]

@@badussywar8938 That clause prevents the state from establishing the church, and you seem to fail to realize that this isn't that

[@robertculling7514]

@@badussywar8938 yeah duhhh but they weren't arguing for that 😂😂😂 just let them have freedom of speech to explain their lived experience and personal beliefs

[@NeroMai]

I wish they talked about the foster care system more, discussed the effects of children in unstable households, and brought a doctor to discuss the abortion process. Also curious what their takes on the death penalty would be. It's silly for them to say we should get rid of abortion and then fix all of the other issues afterward, as if the government is capable of solving all of those problems in the first place. Edit: To the people who are desperately trying to make up some false equivalence to slavery, you are comparing the life long torturing of entire populations to a medical procedure that saves the lives of women. Your ignorance is part of the problem.

[@bree7080]

thank you!!!!

[@Kkelys]

The foster care system is brought up so many times in pro life and pro choice debates. And how I see it is that it is wrong to end a human babies life because of the possibility that they will end in that system or that they might have a bad life. Everyone deserves the right to use the right to live their life. And I can’t speak for every pro life person but I do not for an instant support the death sentence and there are many others who agree with me

[@nathanmosqueda3185]

That doesn’t matter.

[@LM-ix7pk]

But isn’t it the government’s job to take care of its people? I see so many pro choicers be leftist say that and fight for it, yet when it comes to abortion they suddenly change their minds

[@nalanimendoza6092]

they did talk about it. they just edited it out.

[@LinCalc]

Can we just talk about how so many people here had stories about rape? That's absolutely disgusting and it's a problem in and of itself that we need to address as a society.

[@vodka65]

the guy in the orange shirt being so indecisive is so funny to me because thats totally how i would act if i was apart of one of these videos

[@toxicperson8936]

I thought it was actually ridiculous & immature of him, but to each their own I guess. Being a bit unsure at first is one thing, but actually going & sitting down for a few seconds, then walking back up is absolutely weird to me

[@Fishofftheperc30]

@@toxicperson8936 that’s what happens when people are given thought provoking questions?????

[@rickmarr9634]

Treading carefully

[@bvnny1379]

@@toxicperson8936 yeah okay

[@Bo-tr5yx]

Also he need to be using condoms especially after the first abortion Wtf

[@aliceswan6487]

This would have been a great opportunity to have an abortion doctor or ob-gyn at the table to teach about the scientific end of things and clarify abortion misconceptions. The pro-abortion people on the panel are great for the social and experiential explanations, but I would have also loved to see someone who can speak to what specifically occurs medically.

[@gracedicken8708]

I agree. Having a doctor would be great

[@leme9006]

THIS!!

[@Ok-lu8gx]

ok

[@chris1z142]

It’s not something you could solve by explaining it medically. If you had a doctor describe a post first trimester abortion it would hurt the argument significantly.

[@MrMitchellb10]

doctors for/ doctors against abortion would make for a great middle ground episode.

[@1loyaldawg]

If you can’t take a dead person’s organs without prior consent, you can’t force a woman to give birth. Body autonomy is crucial

[@methenjoyer4090]

We agree on bodily autonomy, the disagreement is whether or not those rights also extend to a fetus. People against abortion believe its murder, which is why we want it banned.

[@1loyaldawg]

@@methenjoyer4090 until a fetus would have a chance of survival outside the womb, it’s still the woman’s choice. I think this is the cleanest definition for legal purposes because it would allow for early term abortions and would allow for compassion abortions (where there are major defects detected in the womb that are known to be incompatible with life)

[@benjaminreyes3624]

But you can take the life away from a human being on command.

[@EC-jd9ej]

*or any other AFAB person, but yes :'D

[@RimZeime]

A child cashed survive without its mother even after its birth, Does that mean it's the mother's choice to let it live?

[@heathernks8]

I'm pro-choice for others..to a point. When Rockie said she "LOVES" abortions, I was as shocked as when nobody stood up for rape/incest victims. It's wild how both sides agreed that the rhetoric is extreme, bc you know it will continue.😢

[@Cultured_Ayato]

Also pro choice, I was confused by Rockie's statement as well tbh. If she said that she loves the fact that abortion is a possibility or that she thinks the women who are brave enough to go through with an abortion when they know it's best for them despite all the stigma should be celebrated rather than attacked I may agree at least to a certain degree, but the way she said it and did not elaborate sounded weird to me...also yeah, honestly the people that say that even incest or rape victims shouldn't be allowed to get an abortion if they choose so are genuinely some of the most scary people in the world to me...

[@mause9999]

that question and their responses also threw me off a little. ive seen plenty of women on tiktok and other platforms throwing parties for abortions, celebrating it, and are very pleased with themselves for doing so. there are so many women using it as a form of birth control rather than other methods. to them, its just another doctor's visit.

[@kataminedj]

@@mause9999 celebrating an abortion helps deal with the trauma of it. It’s a horrible and yes physically painful experience. Trust me, no one uses it as birth control. Once you have had one, needing another one is a mistake not a choice.

[@moriyarose3587]

​@@kataminedj I've heard women say this before, even saying that it was emotionally traumatic. If it's just a clump of cells, then what's the big deal? What's so "emotionally traumatic" about having a tumor removed? It's because we all know the truth, even if not all women are willing to admit it. We all know that the alleged "clump of cells" is a baby. A living, breathing human with value and dignity. Every mother knows this. Every human being on the planet knows this, even if they refuse to admit it. THAT'S why it's traumatic.

[@dianaaaa931]

@@moriyarose3587no lol

[@iamshweta96]

Ayala needs to realize that her experience is not universal for SA survivors. Ppl deal with trauma differently.

[@SVINTFC]

So? Lol

[@skoshxx]

@@SVINTFC wtf do you mean "so"?

[@chr1st1.]

totally agree. her situation is quite rare, and for obvious reasons, doesn’t occur often. she seemed to only focus on her experience with rape, rather than trying to listen and understand the view of people who don’t want to live the same way she decided to. it comes to show that experiences differ for every situation or person, but the majority of pro-life individuals can’t and refuse to understand the logic of individuals who want or have had an abortion.

[@hawkeye1247]

I'm sure she's aware...

[@leilanibutler7661]

@@hawkeye1247 clearly not

[@brooks2785]

When you say “I scientifically believe”…it’s not science it’s a belief.

[@rutakassa5631]

@Disappointment perfectly put

[@brooks2785]

@Disappointment I don't believe the grass is green..it is.

[@houseofmatrix6174]

That is truth

[@pauloalex4899]

@@brooks2785 And that's your belief.

[@jasminelu3202]

​@Disappointment There isn't a need to 'believe' in a fact, if it is a fact then you say something like, "the grass IS green" and not "I believe the grass is green" especially since using the word 'believe' in this kind of context makes it seem unsure and not a fact. A way you can say believe in the using the green grass thing is (in a scenario that you can't see the grass but you have to say something), if your actually not sure that the grass is really green and could maybe be yellow, you can say "I believe that the grass is green". However, when something is a fact - something that is true, (in the scenario maybe you can actually see the grass), you can say "the grass IS green".

[@Ziya-Cerezci]

This really shows internet is not a real place, these people were nothing but respectful. There was no violence or shouting, just well thought out arguments. We should have more of these and i congratulate Jubilee for hosting these.

[@samonesandidge1107]

I guess you didn't notice how many times the black dude got cut off and was never able to finish what he said.

[@jerminho1070]

They know they're being filmed for youtube, so 90% of the people on there are not always saying what they want to say simply cus theyre afraid of the backlash they might face of the public

[@miliba]

On the internet people can hide behind their screens

[@hex1275]

Half of them are there because they dont respect women and bodily autonomy so wtf are u on about.

[@crydowc]

would you act like that if you knew you were being recorded and thousands of people would watch it? please think

[@theman5614]

The guy with the orange shirt, he may be indecisive but in a way I think it's actually nice to see someone like this in an important topic and actually shows he is open minded and someone who is willing to change his mind if someone can give him logical reasons on their perspective opposing his views. Though I must admit, I'm indecisive so it kind of reminds myself.

[@GarageStudio7]

Please explain "someone like this"

[@itswhatever7264]

I think they merely meant someone who is a fence sitter on the issue.

[@edwinpaduafontan4036]

It’s really black and white, abortion is the termination of human life, goes against our natural human rights. Medical abortion is never the necessary medical procedure to save a woman’s life, ask a OBYN they now do a C-section which has a 99% survival rate. Additionally, rape cases and incest are bad but we don’t push the baby, we push the rapist.

[@drenchmeinlavender]

These people need to realize that your experience is not everyone else’s experience. Taking someone’s choice away is wrong and entrapping.

[@zachman5150]

No one took away the choice not to risk pregnancy

[@leonardodtc1493]

Taking someone’s life is even worse

[@mariec3733]

@@leonardodtc1493 Not really. You want forced birth but you don't wanna give the already born people rights? Odd.

[@hooliganlexx]

@@zachman5150 So you're saying every time you had sex you had a plan? gtfo

[@zachman5150]

@@hooliganlexx Yes, genius. I'm saying, if women don't want to risk being pregnant, they can avoid it by planning ahead-- Yes. Believe it or not, my wife and I planned to have 1 kid, and did. He's now grown in his 30's and doing well.

[@laribabs]

“Many women are pressured to abort when they don’t want to” Ma’am that’s pro-choice. You are pro-choice. Giving women the decision of whether or not they want an abortion is pro-choice.

[@catherinebrassard4453]

Exactly what I thought when I heard her say that!! She’s clearly the least educated person there. She did not bring up any valid points, bringing religion into the conversation. Which by the way, shouldn’t be brought up in discussions about abortion since it has nothing to do with religion. Istg some people need to realize that there are religions outside of Christianity and that people are allowed to have different beliefs than you.

[@embae9114]

@@catherinebrassard4453 I rolled my eyes everytime she said "as a Christian"

[@nattyadams352]

Literally!!! And now since she was pressured to abort it she’s pressuring others to go full term 😭. She didn’t learn anything.

[@kurapikaisnowdrowning4339]

@@catherinebrassard4453 You have to have this conversation with religion. Religion is what our morals are based on and to decide whether abortion is an ethical option it all comes down to what you’re morals are

[@Rhubarbb95]

@Mary Beth birth control can fail, both hormonal and condoms. There are many many reasons women who are already trying to protect themselves from pregnancy may become pregnant.

[@dieterlesch]

CHILDFREE VS PARENTS - WOULD BE A BRILLIANT MIDDLE GROUND EPISODE. VOTE WITH LIKES.

[@tanyabernadette1909]

upp

[@madisonpoitras]

I’d love to watch this

[@dieterlesch]

@@madisonpoitras Absolutely!! Lets make sure that Jubilee sees this!

[@dislikebutton4486]

Omg what would be the point? What’s next Petfree vs Petowners?

[@BaileyBlurbs]

YESSSS

[@vexahilia_rose]

My mom is a doctor. My dad is a biologist. They are both super pro-life. But I would love to see a pro-life doctor and pro-choice doctor discuss this matter. My mom's cousin (an alcoholic) had a horrible living environment for his children with the mom on the streets. In this situation, others should get involved. As difficult as it may be to work through hardships, you can't just give up. "You can do hard things." I can see how this would be hard to believe in if you are not religious.

[@yellowyellowyellow7894]

Byawluhjee

[@vexahilia_rose]

@@yellowyellowyellow7894 What...?

[@redredred8408]

@@vexahilia_rose fizickle or a kimickol chainj

[@vexahilia_rose]

@@redredred8408 Ah...alt account I see- Really though...What...?

[@m.z1256]

what

[@EllieStrums]

When Jubilee understands that we'd rather take these discussions as podcasts than heavily edited videos, they'll really prosper.

[@remypelzman2362]

Well.. both for the reactions we see and the appearance of these people alongside their argument.

[@KikiMeowKitty]

I actually hate podcasts, I prefer the way they do it

[@adrianortiz6640]

I disagree, I’d rather watch a person physical reaction when confronted with tough questions. Gives one more perspective.

[@imhereforthetea2849]

who’s we? before you i’ve literally never seen anyone complain

[@alexandrapalacios3955]

I mean, they're already prospering this way tho. Drama gets views

[@averymagana2072]

No one is addressing the fact that EVEN IF there was a perfect system out there to aid unwanted children and underprivileged families, the richest, most privileged and educated people will still seek abortions. Being pregnant and going through childbirth and postpartum can be a struggle for anyone regardless of status.

[@Keijiko]

Also, even if there were no financial issues or housing issues or whatever, people should still have a right to bodily autonomy. Women and other people with wombs should be allowed to make that choice, and not be forced to have a child

[@rachelkocmoud3113]

Bodily autonomy doesn’t justify murder. Abortion should not be used as a contraceptive. The unborn shouldn’t have to be the victims of people’s poor decision-making. (This is in regards to your comments about the privileged and educated seeking abortions. Those who live in poverty / have lower education deserve a more nuanced conversation.) If you have the resources to prevent pregnancy (understanding your fertility, contraception, self-control, etc) you have no excuse to utilize abortion and make another life suffer for your mistake.

[@averymagana2072]

@@rachelkocmoud3113 actually yes it does if you’re justifying not preserving life as murder. By your logic, it would be murder for me not to be an organ donor. Maybe my organs would save countless lives but I decided against donating. If I can choose to not save lives with my dead body, I can choose to not save a life with my living body. But I don’t see abortion as murder. I see it as a person choosing to not sustain another life with their own body, and that is okay. I agree that prevention and education are important and that it would be great if abortion rates were reduced. But you don’t reduce them by banning it. You just screw over desperate women and the practitioners trying to help them. Birth control isn’t 100% effective and telling people to “just not have sex” is impractical.

[@krasmasov6852]

@@rachelkocmoud3113 It depends on whether or not the other person's life is dependent on using your body. Even if the answer is yes, you don't have to use your body to support them if you don't want to. That's not murder. And of course abortion shouldn't be used as a contraceptive, but only because it's inefficient to do so. Should still be an option though.

[@agathachris9722]

So??? Just because rich people can and do get away with murder, rape and other heinous crimes, those crimes should be made legal??? What's your logic here?

[@Wraiven22]

Little Dove seems like a really intelligent, well-spoken person. I wish we could've heard more from her.

[@lwmaynard5180]

Little dove isn't into Maternal LOVE ? ? ? But rather VULTURE CULTURE ? ? ? ?😢😳😱😵 👐 👐 👐 💔 👎 👎

[@ぼじん-o5r]

@@lwmaynard5180 ?

[@isabellaseretti5094]

hahah your kidding right

[@lexisotheraccount1567]

@@lwmaynard5180 wdym

[@Katie-tw9nd]

She seemed like a pick me tbh

[@MentalWellnessWithWaihiga]

If you KNOW that you are not ready, willing,wanting to be a parent you SHOULD NOT BE HAVING SEX PERIOD. an abortion is not a contraceptive option how selfish can people be? Stop having sex. Stop having sex. The answer isn't go have an abortion every time you have an inconvenient pregnancy due to your recklessness. Come on. Embrace celibacy.

[@RatIceCream]

Damn Ayala’s story caught me completely off guard. I’m shocked she went through something so horrific and still having the views she does on abortion.

[@uvwv]

It's called maturity.

[@FeralCat123]

I think it just means that everyone has different experiences with things which is why people need to understand that everyone’s story is different. Just because you can take care of a baby or want a baby doesn’t mean that everyone can. Everyone’s experiences are different. Also this is another point that I don’t see anyone making but I’m going to put it here for people to see/interact with. TW RAPE and SUICIDE MENTIONED I constantly see people saying “Well what about the baby.” “It’s a life.” But what about the mother’s life or the father’s? I hardly see (not saying people don’t but I’m saying I personally don’t see this a lot) people wanting to provide care for those parents. What about the victims of Rape or etc? They are all “pro-life” when it comes to abortion but what about the people who are suffering? If someone is truly Pro-Life then they need to put as much time and effort into helping people as they do talking about the wrongs of abortion. What about a child who was raped at 13 and they get pregnant? They never wanted a baby and still don’t. Should that child really go through 9 whole months of labor when they didn’t even want it in the first place? According to some people they would say yes. Yet what happens after that child is born? Are they going to help? Probabaly not. They only seem to care about life when it comes to abortion. What about the thousands of people who die from suicide? What about people who have lost their homes and are now on the street? No one seems to care about those people but as soon as someone wants to get an abortion they care about life?

[@T_Cup]

@@FeralCat123 Agree, like George Carlin said, "they're all in favour of the unborn, they will do anything for the unborn, but once you're born, you're on your own". And you see it all the time, anti-abortionists are like "life is precious" but once the baby is born, they're like "you made your bed, now lie in it." And if a woman dies in childbirth or as a result of pregnancy, who is going to answer to that woman's parents and explain why her life wasn't as important as the child she was carrying, and justify why her parents have to live without their child, whom they were given the choice to bring into the world?

[@ernie5036]

@@uvwv its called being in denial

[@uvwv]

@@ernie5036 Grow up.

[@bbrynnaa]

Anti-abortion really doesn’t take life after birth into consideration. I was raised by a mother who never wanted children and who was not maternal. She was forced into keeping it. I am a grown woman now and have been in therapy for years because of how I was raised. I couldn’t accept love and didn’t know how to give love.

[@thegreatbenis225]

then why didnt you leave this planet? how is that even an arguement, "their life is gonna suck and they might be depressed we should end their life early"

[@snakebitepellehue]

I'm pro-life because I believe your life has as much value now as it had back then, and that it is NOT defined by whether or not someone else wants you. I can't even imagine how you must have felt, but I'm glad you're getting the help you need. Please always remember that you are worthy no matter what your mother or anyone else says.

[@PrincessSage777]

@@snakebitepellehue Amen

[@lunamiku4166]

@@snakebitepellehue It's easy to say those words since you aren't the one who is battling the fight

[@snakebitepellehue]

@@lunamiku4166 Everyone battles fights of their own. I may have been wanted, but was still diagnosed disabled before birth and encouraged to be aborted. My point is that, regardless of what you may (or may not) face, only YOU can decide if you like your life and make whatever changes you need to live better. Nobody can make this decision for you imposing their own criteria.

[@user-ze9zk7qu7u]

That blue shirted girl was really educated and humble towards everyone. While i do not agree with pro-life, i definetly respect her, but the way NO ONE from the pro-life side walked forwards when asked if it should be legal to rape, incest, etc victims, i was blown away, and dissapointed. Immediatly lost all my respect.

[@tonyonaperky2128]

I personally think that is one if the only time. But damn. Its just so low if a percent

[@Incanceble]

So because someone is born from rape, does that make them less human?

[@jasminespencer2872]

I mean if your belief is, abortion shouldn't be legal because it a human life that is ended then how that life comes to be wouldn't change the belief And many respect those who hold to their convictions, regardless of the situation

[@marcxworld5708]

@@jasminespencer2872 doesn't incest make a baby like... Super deformed? Also, why even care that a human baby is dying? It's not like it was ever alive, it's not like it felt any pain

[@HiTianshi]

@@marcxworld5708 You're giving a eugenics argument.

[@jMichaels878]

Abortion access literally saved my life when I was 14 (TW: I was SA'ed by 3 guys in a hs bathroom after a pep rally) and I am forever so thankful for it and have never regretted it for a second. Just putting this out there- to any other women/girls who are in the US (or outside) and are terrified of what the future may hold for themselves or their daughters or mothers (or men who are worried for the safety of their gf, wife, sister, etc), Aid Access is legit organization that provides ahead-of-time care (meaning you don't currently have to be pregnant for them to send you the medication, no questions asked). I have both a friend and relative who've ordered from them to have it on-hand in case of emergency, because they both have suffered life-threatening pregnancy complications in the past and currently live in a state where they are trying to prohibit abortion EVEN if your life is at stake. Please be safe, think ahead for your safety and those you love, and take care of yourself.

[@anika8030]

im so sorry that happened to u im glad u had access and support

[@mytestimonytojesuschrist]

You should regret it, abortion is wicked and evil. Repent.

[@KBeez]

I'm so sorry this happened, dear. I wish you a long, wonderful life with people who will treat you like a treasure. ❤

[@joebobble2644]

So you chose to slaughter the innocent unborn child. Despite the circumstances of conception, what makes the child not even worthy of life?

[@artsplats]

@@joebobble2644 Bro do you feel any sympathy for this girl?

[@ryant107]

The way the “pro-life” people kept saying we need other options, but didn’t give any other options says a lot

[@cathalhendron3941]

Not killing an innocent Human Being is always the best option

[@kaylakuhl1680]

@@cathalhendron3941 that’s not what abortion is bozo

[@cathalhendron3941]

@@kaylakuhl1680 every abortion kills an innocent Human Being that is a fact

[@emmu3722]

@@cathalhendron3941 for you

[@afroxfairyxxx8382]

@@cathalhendron3941 to you

[@c_kaoi7660]

"Im going to dedicate my next abortion to you" To me that sounds like someone wanted to piss you off. To hurt you with those words just as much as your words hurt them. I cant imagine any woman walking into an abortion clinic with a YAYYY! attitude

[@taysresilient]

Same thoughts yes!!

[@AJ-lm5dl]

Go on tik tok and Twitter. You'll be surprised

[@britneythomas7965]

@@AJ-lm5dl I see it all the time!

[@emrod9577]

It was definitely for this purpose😂 they get so offended thinking they mean it

[@in_sun4746]

Which is probably why they should have an abortion because they display so much immaturity by trying to get back at someone like that. But that might be a hasty generalization.

[@Idolbottle]

Love that the decided to do this topic again. Some topics are endless and can be talked about forever and I’ll still gain something by watching it Edit: they could try adding someone who isn’t necessarily on either side and see what they do and don’t agree with. And then see if they will choose a side at the end.

[@AxxLAfriku]

I am thinking about dropping out of school to focus on my career as a star on KZbin. I already make a lot of money on KZbin. School bores me so much. I need more opinions and since I don't have any friends, I gotta ask you, rxan

[@Idolbottle]

@@AxxLAfriku ay always follow your dreams. Have you ever thought about getting a GED? It’s actually pretty easy to pass.

[@g_g...]

@@Antonio-cm8gi wait but you need academy education to be a vet

[@g_g...]

@@Idolbottle dude he’s obviously a self promoter, you can’t really trust anything they say

[@Idolbottle]

@@g_g... i wasn’t going to respond at first but they put my name at the end so i was like “screw it, might as well”

[@isisdunston6031]

I think the issue I have is that everyone is focused on the fetus and not the person this is actually happening too. Why are we focusing on something that hasn’t even entered this world opposed to someone who is currently living in it .If it is not your body it’s is not your choice.

[@isisdunston6031]

Also confused as to why there are circumstances in which abortions are okay. Either you believe it’s a women’s decision to make or not. Why are we making these decisions for women?

[@altaccount9716]

If may ask, were you pro or anti mask mandate? Because that's the state forcing somebody to give up thier choice over thier body. But for a reason, because it could save lives. Just like how not having an abortion saves a life.

[@deisygonzalez9480]

@@altaccount9716 mask < general public health (is greater/more important). Unborn fetus < living adults/community (greater/more important). each situation is different

[@calmite]

Why is a fetus less valuable than a human being?

[@Zizians]

​​​@@calmitebecause a fetus doesn't have a consciousness, and you have to define what is value at the first place to futher establish a better statement why a fetus isn't as valuable as a human being.

[@ripst1ck.]

my biggest issue with this conversation was none of the pro-life stepped up for abortions should be accessible for rape and incest victims. Especially the 18 year old who was raped and wanted that child, that was her choice, but she should not make that choice for every other woman who has been raped and got pregnant due to that. Pro-choice isn't pro murder its pro if you want/need one get it & if you don't want to don't get one. Another issue I had was the dude who's mom was told to have an abortion. "I was almost aborted so I want to save all the other lives" I can't handle that. I just don't like when people try and shove their religious rights on others regarding abortion

[@pcprinciple3774]

Because it's a red herring, what percentage of abortions do you think fall into that category?

[@EC-jd9ej]

Yes, but adding in also that trans men and non-binary people also get abortions (some people reading through the comments might tink it's a women-only issue)

[@qiucher879]

@@EC-jd9ej well only women can get pregnant so if you have an abortion then you are a woman

[@nagito177]

@@qiucher879 no you are wrong

[@caelielove2653]

Nobody should be able to access abortion. Just like Alaya was saying, instead of continuing the cycle of violence, you can choose to end it. I understand rape is a terrible horrible thing that no one should have to go through, but along with that no one should have to go through being murdered. Rape is a violent crime that is not consented too, so why is murdering a helpless baby okay? There is always the option of adopting, which I feel like is being hushed. There are many couple who want to adopt for many reasons, including not being able to have their own children. I personally think it is very selfish to murder a child because it will be "inconvenient" for you.

[@nicoisbored3376]

i love how asher gives a personal anecdote because it shows that men don't always have to be against ideas that specifically target women

[@MrRezitinas]

Oh yeah when men support abortion then they have a say

[@lilyniejadlik3348]

Yes but not only woman have babies :)

[@gorg7884]

But when has anyone said that “men always have to be in support of ideas that specifically target women”? I think it’s already clear that they don’t and aren’t praised if they do.

[@EgaTehPro]

Damn that's crazy cause Sebastian also gave a personal anecdote and that "idea" specifically saved his life.

[@labro1330]

well said

[@katiewatchedyoutube754]

Little Dove is so impressive dealing with conflict. Calm and eloquent. I was taken by her grace and empathy.

[@CrystalDoggoIsMissing]

her name speaks volumes for her lol

[@tiffanycompton8267]

At 19 mins thru 25 secs she mentioned empathy.

[@brittanymacdonald396]

@@CrystalDoggoIsMissing so true she is so beautiful inside & out

[@brittanymacdonald396]

@@lwmaynard5180 i love when racists call themselves out so we dont have to🥰

[@lwmaynard5180]

Abortion clinic , no color bar ? We take all races ! ! 😱😨😲 👐 👐 👐

[@ZacharyWilliams-r7r]

victims of rape have no responsibility to remedy the broken nature of society that caused them such great harm. tasking rape victims with rectifying their trauma through childbirth is horrendous that girl should be ashamed. it’s not about life to them at all it’s about feeling they have the moral high ground

[@angellynx9484]

Aborting a child doesn’t take away the experience of rape. Nor does an abortion cure you of that experience.

[@monstertj9861]

​@@angellynx9484it prevents the woman the trauma of giving birth to baby of her rapist.

[@JohnDoe-jt5lb]

​@@monstertj9861 true, but it also takes away the baby's life.

[@jovanichaparro7259]

@@JohnDoe-jt5lbI think everyone know the ending result of the abortion. They shouldn’t bear the responsibility of carrying a life they never asked for. Complications can occur in pregnancy and can turn the situation into a life for a life. Regardless of the law or religious beliefs it’ll continue to happen so why not have them do it in a safe professional environment.

[@edwinpaduafontan4036]

@@jovanichaparro7259 abortion is never the medical procedure required to save a woman’s life… you can’t find a source out there at shows a woman would’ve died without an abortion. What’s they do is a C section which has a 99% success rate

[@tbsummerly91]

I’m 9 months pregnant and it has been an incredibly difficult process. I could not imagine forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy that was unwanted for any reason or potentially very wanted but dangerous. This experience has done nothing but confirm my prior pro-choice beliefs.

[@carthy2024]

Don’t have sex then

[@flamingoxe5984]

How about make more responsible choices

[@taliarachel7193]

@@carthy2024 that is literally not what its about.

[@harper2]

@@carthy2024 then tell men not to have sex either.

[@choose_happyxo]

@@taliarachel7193 yes it is…? If you have sex you can get pregnant. If you don’t want to get pregnant then don’t have sex.

[@meganchichester9000]

Those who say “why not adoption” clearly don’t understand how traumatic adoption is. I was adopted and I’m a birth mom and both sides are….mega traumatic

[@macias7125]

still better than taking the life of an innocent baby

[@ivecomeforyourpickle5470]

Right so, death? That's the option the baby has?

[@annaliese9453]

I understand that ,but you wouldn't be here right now.

[@fortnitegameryo200]

Better to be dead?

[@erincarr9411]

Why does everyone think death or non existence as bad? They wouldn't know any different. Death is not the worst thing. And why are we so obsessed with human life above all else. There is so much life that we destroy, life that exists on its own outside of someone else's womb.

[@mililanirosas3888]

Riddle me this. If consensual sex is seen as fine and nonconsensual sex is a crime (rape) then why are people trying to force nonconsensual motherhood? If someone consents to having a child then just like having sex that’s is perfectly fine, it’s when consent is taken out of the picture that things start to get twisted.

[@goodbye6676]

because the mother is avoiding responsibility and unwanted fatherhood is supported so why not?

[@goodbye6676]

it takes 2 to tango however that argument only applies when the child is born..sad

[@missprettyschannel]

no one wants to talk about that cause they know you have a valid point.

[@zachman5150]

@@missprettyschannel It's not a valid point AT All

[@lulu..moonlight3442]

@@zachman5150 It is a very valid point which the person is making actually

[@sinatrabone]

Every one of these people had a fascinating story, and one worth listening to. I appreciate that they were allowed to speak openly, disagree, and find commonality on a few things as seemed appropriate.

[@francescafernandez3885]

As someone who was born and raised in one of the only countries in the world where abortion is completely banned (Dominican Republic- since 2009) I would have loved to contribute to this conversation, especially when it comes to people's perception of what would a world where abortion is banned look like.

[@daisyedeaghe8523]

Great idea!

[@teenytries6290]

Could you elaborate? I’m genuinely curious what that is like in practice

[@emmanuellepadilla1426]

Im Dominican and it’s mostly because our culture tends to be somewhat religious. So most peoples moral compass is in line with Catholic/Christian values. Also poor people DR is a struggling country so even if it was legal only a small percentage would have access to it.

[@Devi_ka]

@@teenytries6290 In practice women still have abortion but it's not done safely.

[@ManifestBest]

contribute in the comments, love

[@lindsey386]

"I love abortion" is a very strange statement if you ask me (and I'm pro-choice). Being pro-choice is about a woman's right to CHOOSE, whether that choice is abortion, adoption, keeping the baby, ... It baffled me how not everyone came forward for the first statement "nobody likes abortions" because no one is undergoing an abortion just for shits and giggles and it most definitely is not an easy choice.

[@genericbob5518]

Tik Tok would say otherwise. Sadly.

[@paulina4925]

THISS!

[@g_g...]

I agree Although an extremely low amount of people do probably like abortion. And i mean like a 0.000001% or something like that

[@katyusha_3012]

i mean I don’t know if they meant it that way. I think they meant I love the fact that women can have abortions. Not sure tho

[@alyssak3714]

I thought the same thing

[@augustvirgo26]

Christine kinda confused because she agreed that the biological father should have a say but then talked about how the biological father of her child told her to have an abortion but she didn’t.

[@TheVMbros]

Well, he did express to her that she should get an abortion... but at the end of the day it's the woman's choice. If your partner wants you to get an abortion (or not), you should take that into consideration when making your decision, but most importantly, you should asses what is best for you as an individual. Edit: Men should have a say, but not the final one.

[@akazienoel2009]

@@TheVMbros is it a say then? They can max give a suggestion

[@TheVMbros]

@@akazienoel2009 You're right it's not a say... but I guess men shouldn't have an active and participatory role in a decision that a woman has to make about her own life. But I do believe that women should at least listen to what the father of the potential child suggests.

[@akazienoel2009]

@@TheVMbros Oh yea, the father/partner can make suggestions, the final say is hers though. The only problem is that some fathers or family members (without knowing) manipulate her into getting or not getting it

[@thanoswife1254]

I am confused too, and at the end of the day, it is the woman's choice since it's her health and body at stake but at the same time, if she chooses to have the kid and ignores his choices, i don't believe he should have to pay child support if he did not want the child but if he did want the child, he should get paid a bit of compensation for the emotional trauma that he may have suffered when the abortion happened since fathers often want the baby too and are hurt or scarred when it's aborted.

[@leifrausch9517]

The pro life people not walking up for the rape being accessible to victims of rape and incest is disgusting asf

[@RJH755]

Do they know not know the birth defects that come with inbreeding? Anyone who thinks abortion shouldn't be allowed for incest cases needs to watch Soft White Underbelly's interview with The Whittakers

[@Opalescape]

I am staunchly pro-choice because of this issue. It completely baffles me that there are people in the world who will dig in their heels (usually for religious reasons) preaching that life trumps SA and incest. A minor or adult forced to have the baby as a result of SA and incest is evil, and nothing can change my mind about this.

[@y3graj]

​@@Opalescape what if I said ur value of life depends on certain conditions how would u feel?

[@Opalescape]

@@y3graj Can you rephrase the question? I’m not entirely sure what you’re asking. Thanks! ❤️

[@y3graj]

@@Opalescape let's make an exception for those cases ( rape and incest) would you still support abortion?

[@Diane_666]

I really like the way Asher thinks. His respect for women combined with honesty is very admirable. I feel happy for his girlfriend, it seems like she has a very considerate and open-minded partner.

[@aimee-leighkelly2906]

I loved that guy ! Really great conversation from him

[@Nyabennah]

conflicted.

[@joannaoduleye4042]

OR boyfriend dont assume !!

[@coffepot4800]

@@ceIosi trans men?

[@jessicai7096]

@@coffepot4800 hence why they said male and not men.

[@solvorine]

As an adopted child- who survived an attempted abortion by overdose- I do not hate my biological mother for trying. For all I know, she could have been a rape victim. Carrying that trauma with you, knowing that a horrible person had put themselves *in you* and created something your never wanted inside you is horrible. Seeing the child (if born) would be proof of that horrible event. Pregnancy is not easy. It hurts. Your body changes. So, especially if you are a rape victim, you’re in pain for the next *year* or so. Although I’m extremely grateful to be alive, I wouldn’t have wanted to make somebody suffer.

[@solvorine]

@Pink Valentine I'm not exactly sure, I only know that I'm extremely lucky to be born 'normal' by today's standards.

[@democraticrepublicofzibers7112]

Abortion gives a woman more trauma than not having one.

[@sunflowered314]

@@democraticrepublicofzibers7112 that is up for debate as yes there are women who regret getting abortions and end up having trauma in regards to that, but there are plenty who don't, weren't ready or couldn't deal with seeing the product of their trauma day in and out. I personally know a women who was raped had an abortion because of her trauma but then went on to have a wonderful family. She has told me many times that while it was a hard decision she felt she made the best one for herself and she has told me that she would be a much worse person today had she had the child as she fears if she was forced to have that baby she would have taken her own life. so I think that you are uneducated about the topic and come back when you have learned more about it

[@democraticrepublicofzibers7112]

@@sunflowered314 It's killing something, obv there's more trauma than that

[@juanj9616]

You view your life less valuable than a couple months of suffering?

[@arijeanz]

my main issue with anti abortionists is the INCESSANT harping about how "well if i was raped i would keep the child" or "i had an unplanned pregnancy and kept it" or "i was an unplanned child myself" LIKE THAT'S FINE. IM GLAD FOR YOU. BUT THAT ISN'T HOW EVERYONE FEELS AND SHOULD FEEL. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF PRO CHOICE. YOU CAN DO WHATEVER YOU WANT.

[@consent2breedingu]

Why the fuck would you want to have a rapists baby in you? That’s so ducking dirty.

[@consent2breedingu]

When you get raped the first thing they do is take you to hospital where they give you morning after pill and do a rape kit.

[@tylawsbennie4990]

But to respond, yes ppl get raped and invest happens but those aren’t the reasons a large majority of women get abortions. Even in this, the black women said she had two abortions because she just “wasn’t ready”. Ppl have abortions because a kid is disruptive to their current lifestyle. You end a future and you end a persons contribution to the rest of society.

[@consent2breedingu]

@@tylawsbennie4990 if a child isn’t wanted then their parents aren’t going to help them contribute anything but misery and ugliness to society. We have an abundance of that. Why is there so many tradies and so few surgeons? And that’s selfish you just have kids to contribute? You have kids cause you are in love and want a family. Africa has heaps of kids and look how awful their time on this earth is? They just suffer while the west does duck all. All those donations only a tenth actually reach the people who need it. Most of it goes to pay people to demand money from other people.

[@consent2breedingu]

@@tylawsbennie4990 it’s not your body. If you don’t want something in side of your body such as a dick up your arse no one is forcing that to happen to you, and I’m pretty sure a baby is bigger than most penises. So yeah to ban abortion or to even be against it is sympathising and supporting rape and the misuse of women. I understand you feel that it’s unfair that you don’t have a uterus but it’s really a blessing, it’s dangerous and painful. It’s like being jealous of someone who got stabbed.

[@georgiaryan5972]

It’s interesting that none of the pro life stepped forward for the rape/ incest question. I guess a child that was raped and forced into pregnancy suddenly loses the rights they had when they were a unborn fetus? What about their life now?

[@miadanielle114]

Something I wanted to hear about was the fact that some women don’t know when they’re pregnant. People sometimes miss their periods and it be normal for them. There’s still this uncertainty where it’s like oh wow I didn’t realize this was happening to me and I don’t want this. The anxiety from figuring out something is happening to ur body and not being able to do anything about it is wild.

[@destinygalindo1854]

I totally agree with you 💯

[@Hashem1271]

wtf, if you ask me, that's irresponsible. If you have unprotected sex, you should regularly check to see if you're pregnant. If you have unprotected sex and you miss your period, that means go get a check up. Tf is wrong with you. 1+1=2.

[@bigandhappy420]

@@Hashem1271 people still can get pregnant with safe sex…

[@smhsav]

@@Hashem1271 People can have "protected" sex and still get pregnant. Sometimes condoms break, and birth control does not work. Getting pregnant does not automatically mean irresponsible. My aunt got pregnant even though she was on birth control. It can happen to anyone.

[@Hashem1271]

@@bigandhappy420 I was referring to people who choose to have unprotected sex. -.- Cmon bud try to keep up.

[@lorrymartel]

Christine talks about how many women are “pressured” into having an abortion when they don’t want to. But what about the women who are pressured into having the child when they simply don’t want to…?? The reasons for the abortion doesn’t matter. It should be the choice of the women about what happens to their body.

[@aidanaldrich7795]

People should be pressured into not murdering people 🤷‍♂️

[@lwmaynard5180]

So you are saying your mother should have had that option or choice with you ? ? ? OR ARE YOU THE EXCEPTION TO THE RULE ? ? ? 😁 😨😱😲😢👀👀👐👐👐💔👎 👎

[@lorrymartel]

@@lwmaynard5180 Yes, she should have had that option of choice. The difference is my mother was 30 when she had me, I was planned. My parents were ready and wanting children.

[@zacharyunderwood5232]

@@lwmaynard5180 EVERYONE should have the option, in no way did that person imply they were an exception. The foster care/ adoption system is a mess in the US is overcrowded and it's unfair to put a child through that torment when you could have painlessly prevented it with 1 medical choice. The ability to choose may be abused by some but by that logic guns need to be totally removed from the country because there's a few bad people that abuse that power, that's just not how it works and it needs to be a medical option for whatever situation arises.

[@fiitz1252]

it’s the responsibility of the woman to use contraceptives if she believes it’s her responsibility to have an abortion simple as that. if you have a child you either weren’t careful enough using contraceptives or you wanted a child.

[@_iongaf.]

I was raped at 12 years old which ended up in a pregnancy and i aborted the baby because i wanted too i was a literal child how the hell was i going to look after another one. And in the video they did touch on it about the child reminding you of the perpetrator and i was scared of the same case too i was also most likely to die if i had gone through the pregnancy since my body wasnt fully developed so how the hell are these so called ANTI-ABORTERS calling abortion murder but wouldn`t mind if the person giving the baby dies iam so upset right now Thank you very much for all the kind comments iam doing much better now but still going to therapy and recovering and hopefully in the future i would be much better❣

[@hieronymousblackmane9152]

Blessings to you woman, stay strong and keep fighting. I hope you're in a better place now.

[@_iongaf.]

@@hieronymousblackmane9152 Thank you very much iam still recovering and doing much better❤

[@pandabear6313]

Sorry for what you’ve gone through. I’ve not watched the video but 99% of abortion procedures happened in the US (I can’t speak for other countries because the law might be different) due to inconvenience. The abortion due to rape and incest cases make up less then 1% of all abortions. And if the pregnancy is too dangerous like in your case, the abortion must happen. And you were a child yourself so that was beyond terrifying. I think what the two sides usually get mixed up is that they don’t have a common ground For example, in what specific country are we talking about abortion? Canada, China, Korea, India, USA? Like where? You have to be specific to stay consistent with the data. And as I mentioned, your situation is very rare. What anti-abortion side aiming for is the other 99%. And again, I’m only talking specifically about the US. I don’t speak for anywhere else, that’s their business. NY city has the highest abortion rates in the US and you can guarantee most abortions were done by Black women. 25 millions Black babies were killed in 10 years period by Plan Parenthood. Estimating around 60 millions babies in general were killed through abortions because those babies were considered an inconvenience, not because of rape or incest****** . If that is not murder, I don’t know what you call it. Again, your feelings are relevant but your case is rare. Your experience certainly does not best represent the general public. Because again, pregnancy itself at such a young age is rare, pregnancy through incest is very uncommon. And I hope pro-abortion group can shift their focus 99% of the time on the elephant in room.

[@_iongaf.]

@@pandabear6313 Thank you very much for explaining your point in a very understanding way it makes sense but iam sure the people aborting the children may of had different inconveniences that could have affected them badly if they did have a child but then again who am i to be speaking for all of those people . Btw iam from the UK and don`t really know if they care about abortions here all i know is that it was accessible for me . Again thank you very much for your POV.

[@darkdevilshadowqueen7366]

Seriously right know people don't think with their heads. Everything is black and white. There are no grey area. I hope you are doing well sis

[@roxayneochs1298]

Imagine saying women are triggered by those outside the clinic holding up pictures and signs, and not by the actual procedure that rips their baby out of the womb. Insanity

[@Mewhenthewhenthe-x7j]

Tbf, some pro-lifers are just yelling at women instead of trying to help them

[@denzellmovies]

Nobody enjoys getting an abortion, yet people should still be free to get one. That in no way justifies harassment

[@autograndeunlimited]

​@@denzellmovies showing pictures of peoppe whi have done mirder just like you isnt harrassement

[@bingus4901]

They don't like the reality of their actions to be shown to them.

[@asaint8741]

I like Asher he actually tries to put himself into the woman's perspective and the man's perspective and he actually knows what he is doing like he knows the needs for the children and he knows the maturity that is needed to raise a child

[@blackblackblack7773]

*20TH BOOSTER*

[@Bulbmin_Enjoyer]

@@blackblackblack7773 ????

[@MiVidaBellisima]

YES!! Some of the pro and anti abortion people just sounded selfish af. It annoyed me so much I didn’t want to finish the video. Empathy and intellectual reasoning really are the answers.

[@bogartmotomoto8222]

Did he put his perspective to abortion survivor??

[@ftftyffghfvghfcht6701]

you are disgusting. he even said that men have no say in abortion and being forced into parenthood, and yet you glossed past that as if it drifted in one ear and out the other. yet made a remark that exactly couldve, and shouldve been applied ton men as well

[@saradodson7840]

The woman who said "the doctors don't explain what is going on during an abortion" actually yes they do they yell you EVERYTHING. I had one years ago and remember it clear as day. People who have never been in the situation should have no room to talk on the situation

[@hiteshbhagat8437]

The pro lifers say that the women who undergoes abortion carries that toll on for life. You have been through one and I would really like to know how you feel about this argument.?

[@chrissylana3757]

@hitesh, I had one years ago and tend to forget about it. I also have 0 regrets. When they forced me to listen to the heartbeat, I was like “Wow cool!… now can we get this show on the road?” Sometimes, the emotional arguments that pro-lifers try to use are extremely exaggerated which is why I advocate for personal choice. Like stop pretending you, living your life, care just oh so deeply about the clump of cells in my uterus

[@magnum_mulch]

so with this same logic, people who have never commited a crime should have no say on the fate f those that have? mhm.

[@hiteshbhagat8437]

@@magnum_mulch but abortion isn't a crime, it's a simple medical procedure. And if you are not able to understand this trust me you are in no shape or form to judge someone.

[@magnum_mulch]

@@hiteshbhagat8437 I didn’t say it was a crime i was just making an example 💀

[@sleepylena7411]

Sad how none of the anti-abortion people walked forward when the literal statement was "Abortion should be accessible to rape and incest survivors" the keyword in the statement was "should be accessible" NOT they "should get an abortion". The statement simply meant that sexual assault or incest survivors should be able to have access or the option to have an abortion

[@b.1162]

They'd be complete hypocrites if they did. They don't believe how a fetus is conceived matters when it comes to the legality of ending its life. It's the one thing I agree with them on as a pro-choice person.

[@sleepylena7411]

@@b.1162 The impression I got or how I understood from the reaction is that the anti-abortion people either A. mis-interpreted the question/statement or B. just don’t believe that survivors of rape or incest should have the option or access to abortion. Just from my understanding

[@b.1162]

@@sleepylena7411 It's B. They believe abortion is murder. Murder is a criminal act, no exceptions.

[@caelielove2653]

Nobody should be able to access abortion. Just like Alaya was saying, instead of continuing the cycle of violence, you can choose to end it. I understand rape is a terrible horrible thing that no one should have to go through, but along with that no one should have to go through being murdered. Rape is a violent crime that is not consented too, so why is murdering a helpless baby okay? There is always the option of adopting, which I feel like is being hushed. There are many couple who want to adopt for many reasons, including not being able to have their own children. I personally think it is very selfish to murder a child because it will be "inconvenient" for you.

[@sleepylena7411]

@@caelielove2653 Who are you to tell what someone should or should not do with their body? Are you going to adopt it? Are you going to contribute and help ALL the people who are seeking an abortion? People have abortions for all types of reasons and everyone’s situation is different. Pregnancy itself is not a walk in the park, it takes a toll on a persons body physically and mentally. Please be mindful that abortion will never end only safe ones will. The fact is that 1 in 4 women will have an abortion at some point in their life

[@drewmixalot]

Hey Jubilee, there are many viewers who would really like to see the whole, unedited conversation. Would you consider releasing it?

[@laymellonc]

I've lived in a country where it was criminalised. I had friends at 16 ask to get pushed down the stairs to abort. Another friend tried overdosing on medication, and another used a coat hanger. Abortion will always happen. But to criminilize it, we are saying the fetus has more value than the life of the woman.

[@agathachris9722]

It will always happen, jist like murder, just like rape. Should we create safe environments for the rapist so that they don't feel their lives are ruined by prison time?

[@rachelnkemokoro2004_]

@@agathachris9722 you're so true wow

[@rachelnkemokoro2004_]

fetes means small child in latin. there's a human inside of the mother....

[@bekon6520]

@@agathachris9722 abortion is not the same as rape and murder. murderers and rapists have victims and are a danger to others which is why they need to be locked away. over 90% of abortions in the us take place before 13 weeks. at 13 weeks, fetuses cannot feel pain, they do not have developed brains, they do not have consciousness and they do not have memories so they cannot be considered victims. abortion is not something that a 13 week old fetus can "experience". also women who have abortions aren't more likely to be dangerous to others like murderers and rapists are.

[@ankitaravajan2517]

@@agathachris9722 Bruh what?? Are rapists forced to be rapists? For the women who are raped and decide to get an abortion... are they equivalent to murderers and rapists? You can't even draw such a parallel because the circumstances behind either are not the same.🤦‍♀️

[@maddenmarin5645]

I love how the blue shirt girl said “I’m pro life becuase of science” and then says her personal BELIEF is that life starts at conception

[@Anna-nf6ku]

‘scientifically, I BELIEVE’.. cmon now

[@paru-chinbaka5214]

Is this satire? What is conceived in a conception?

[@zachman5150]

Do you believe that your understanding of the science involved in explaining reproduction and specifically the reproduction and fertilization process is true and correct? There you go

[@jaydenjbryant8665]

No it’s a fact an anyone who doesn’t agree with it is wronf

[@giovincomaz2175]

Vast majority of scientists agree that life begins at conception. They dont agree on when personhood begins(when baby gets human rights)

[@shaygray4552]

The girl that stated that abortion following rape is continuing the cycle of violence failed to also take into account that forcing a rape victim to stay pregnant as a result of rape is also continuing the cycle of violence against the body of the victim. Pregnancy can be brutal, the baby is sapping away the nutrients from the food you eat, pushing your internal organs around, altering your mental and physical state.

[@travisjohnson7065]

Allowing life is not violent. Taking life is violent. There is nothing violent about a pregnancy, about the nurturing protection of the innocent unborn child. I can guarantee that bringing life into the world is a lot less brutal than snuffing that life out in the very place that is designed to be its sanctuary.

[@sammierose1150]

@@travisjohnson7065 maybe we should teach *men* not to R women then? 🙃

[@travisjohnson7065]

@@sammierose1150 Not really something that needs to be taught. That's like saying we should teach people not to murder. It's just basic morals. But two wrongs don't make a right. If something bad happens to you, that doesn't give you the right to do something bad yourself.

[@shaygray4552]

@@travisjohnson7065 pregnancy is literally known as one of the most painful things anyone can ever experience. Women tear from their vagina right through to their anus, they take weeks to heal. Nature can be violent. And it can be traumatic. A woman’s body is not a sanctuary for a man’s desires.

[@travisjohnson7065]

@@shaygray4552 Just because it's painful, that doesn't justify killing the unborn child. It isn't their fault pregnancy is painful. It isn't their fault that they were created by their parents, and they don't deserve to die just because their parents wanted sex without the responsibility that comes with it. You're right, a pregnant woman's body is a sanctuary for her child. Not a man's desires, but her vulnerable child's life. This isn't about men, it's about that child and their right to not be slain in the very place designed to be their sanctuary.

[@fireflymiesumae]

Who else is here because the prolifer got an abortion?

[@ripewatermelonlol]

which one lol

[@bresea702]

What? 😮

[@pigeon00002]

​@@ripewatermelonlol Ayala. It really disappointed me.

[@Erlymroz]

@@pigeon00002what? When and how did you figure it out?

[@pigeon00002]

@@Erlymroz Yep. I can send you a link to a PDF of her substack post admitting it if you'd like. Really sad stuff. She's completely 100% pro abortion now. She also removed the initials of her miscarried babies from her IG bio 💔

[@bluebubble612]

Lost faith in humanity when none of the anti-abortion people walked up for victims of rape and incest having access to abortions. Lost it even further when that girl in blue tried to justify it with "but you're continuing the cycle of violence". In my opinion, it would be cutting the cycle of violence. In order to fully move on and heal from a traumatic experience, i need to cut off everything that has any sort of linkage to whatever caused me the trauma. I don't understand how she couldn't see it from this perspective?

[@jamorains]

because "abortion heals" isn't a sound moral argument..

[@whereaboutsunknown3822]

She’s trying to say there is violence being done to the unborn child. But what I have a problem with is …..is that these anti-abortionist value a small unborn fetus over the life of an actual living being.

[@jamorains]

@@whereaboutsunknown3822 a fetus is an actual living being..

[@someone3401]

so you’re saying taking away the sufferer is better? the child is in no way at fault for the fathers deeds.

[@jackolantern6631]

@@someone3401 but that child is going to suffer because of it. that mother is gonna resent the child, and not fully love them. it would hurt the child way more than for it to be gone before its an actual person.

[@lei5912]

I don't think any woman would be excited to get an abortion. It is a difficult choice that every woman has to make for herself. Having the right ressources to raise a child is not sufficient if you aren't mentally and emotionally prepared for it. The life of the woman matters too, so why force her into something she doesn't want...

[@missawsum4918]

exactly, people care more about a baby that isnt aware of anything and probably cant even think yet more than women that have been here for a long time

[@georgekatkus5162]

You'd be surprised the depravity of humans. We haven't changed in the thousands of years we've been around. At least 3 different times people said they're going to name their next abortion after me. One time was just while I was praying while sitting down at a bus stop. 2 lives. One will be happy if the other dies. Or, both can live, with one at a shot of happiness, and one also at a shot of happiness, provided she's steadfast

[@ChabelaFlips]

Then don’t get pregnant if you don’t want a baby! (It should be legal tho if raped or risks during pregnancy)

[@Make_Australia_British_Again]

@@missawsum4918 both lives are important. That’s why it’s only prolifers who are actively doing things. Pro choicers just say get the abortion end of story and act like the baby has no rights. Then you have the woman feeling upset and traumatised because she was told she was just “aborting a clump of cells’ until she realised that her choice affected another human being’s life.

[@Vi0let_crystal]

@@ChabelaFlips you honestly think men and women will stop having sex till they are ready to be a father or a mother

[@taylormatthews7488]

“I don’t understand how anyone can justify their personal beliefs to take away the rights of others” she obviously hasn’t seen people on Twitter 😭😭😭

[@Treyvlog]

She is one of those people on Twitter

[@sukunawillstillwin]

what rights do twitter to take away? explain

[@miti342]

@@sukunawillstillwin I want to know to 💀 bc if it’s other ppl on the app, then she’s just easy to manipulate 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@jeirinchannel2889]

@@miti342 twitter ?! lmao just log out

[@elizabethharrison3765]

Others like ... The unborn?

[@kari8634]

I can understand both sides but it is NEVER okay to completely take away someone else's rights just because you don't agree with them. It's important that everyone gets to make that call for themselves bc at the end of the day it's not affecting you personally if someone you don't even know gets an abortion or not!

[@zoyadulzura7490]

Exactly. People can believe in souls, or the value of the life in a clump of cells, or some variant of those, but to say that such beliefs should prevent a person from doing what they want with their body is unconstitutional.

[@sophiavalenzuela4901]

It's really interesting the fact that pro abortion talked about others, how more people would feel, and the anti abortion people talked mostly about what they believe, but not about how others would see the experience

[@sumranduminfoguydanklolsof5309]

Pro lifer here. These pro lifers were kind of a bad group of representatives. They weren't really the best. Sorry if this gives you the idea that all pro lifers don't care about other people. I'm sure we can agree everyone in this video and comment section cares about other people. But their words kind of jumbled up the message

[@robertculling7514]

and yet multiple pro-life people in the vid talked about their experiences too ... this isn't a religion issues its science and science cant say when life begins 😊😊😊😊 yet you go to an IVF clinic and they will say it all starts at conception 😂😂😂 the irony of the world

[@motorheadbanger90]

Great observation!

[@lwmaynard5180]

Pro Choice is a compromise of the UNWISE ? ? 😴😩😦

[@flashstar1234]

@@sumranduminfoguydanklolsof5309 So true

[@jacklake3740]

Asher is the only one I agree with he’s honest and he was constantly challenging his own opinion the whole time where a lot of the others weren’t willing to even consider another person opinion

[@nicholasbourcier]

nah, the guy was a straight clown.

[@jacklake3740]

@@nicholasbourcier how so ?

[@all4joffrey92]

@@jacklake3740 -- Because if a person isn't ready for the consequences of sex, s/he shouldn't have sex.

[@777Skeptic]

@@all4joffrey92 Here's a crazy idea: just like with any health-related consequences, they can be allowed to seek medical treatment to remedy the consequences. If you crash a car, you don't just accept and live with the consequences. You go to a hospital to remedy them.

[@sarahe.3107]

@@all4joffrey92 so if ur not ready to be the 50% of sexually active adults who get an STI, you should never have sex?

[@Emlyn1133]

I honestly wish that Little Dove had more time to speak, she was super well spoken and her counter arguments were great.

[@Eira436]

Maybe she takes more time to construct her ideas in her head first.

[@non0n704]

I also really liked Little Dove and her perspective

[@merrimankaylynn]

Agreed!!! She seems SO kind

[@gabrielacastillo2930]

Totally agree!

[@jeremysmith9694]

What's with her name though?

[@afeministandafangirl928]

4:27 For the fathers having equal rights in the pregnancy. 100% agree. Let fathers have 50% say in the pregnancy by carrying the child for 4.5 months and going through half of the childbirth as well. 😊😊😊😊

[@BaileyBlurbs]

Little Dove is a gem and I appreciate her maturity and empathy.

[@improbablyacomment]

Americans are really naming their child "Little Dove" bro 💀

[@user-jt7xw3nm3q]

@@improbablyacomment She stated she's native, her name is probably translated from another language. It will sound funny to you if you're not from that culture. Names like that are not really an American thing.

[@improbablyacomment]

@@user-jt7xw3nm3q oh alright i didn't know that thanks

[@SaiyanMonkeyDude]

I thought that was Blaire white for a sec

[@HutchHere]

She supports murder.

[@Account-xm6vj]

8:50 I don't understand how Christine didn't like being told to do with her pregnancy, yet being on the anti-abortion side, disagrees with women doing what THEY want with THEIR pregnancies (i.e. aborting). No hate, just worth mentioning.

[@lyricmarriott530]

Exactly. You can be pro life for yourself and pro choice for everyone else too

[@deokspatch8458]

Prudence. You know that word?

[@christinecao4499]

I was just about to comment this,definitely weird

[@annettebogart]

Because she's a hypocritical religious person what do you expect?

[@EC-jd9ej]

Yes, but adding in also that trans men and non-binary people also get abortions (some people reading through the comments might tink it's a women-only issue)

[@kathygmz]

idk, being pro-choice doesn't necessarily mean you should get an abortion, it just leaves an opportunity for those who need/want it. i never really understood pro-lifers.

[@crazychimp1039]

I never really understood pro choicers

[@leahclaret775]

@@crazychimp1039 what do you not understand

[@leahclaret775]

@@AJ-lm5dl that’s completely ignorant, you should probably educate yourself on the topic before you start comment things like that

[@AJ-lm5dl]

@@leahclaret775 What's inside the mother is completely unique *human* DNA, created from *human* reproduction, and is *growing* from the moment of its conception. That's called "human life". Abortion is the process of chopping up that organism and throwing it in a dumpster. And people go through with that process because it's "inconvenient" for them to let the baby live after they recklessly had sex. I'm well aware of what goes on. But, your lack of addressing any of my points alludes to the fact that you have no actual argument. Just selfish emotions at the expense of the lives of innocent and defenseless human beings.

[@amilakristensen9889]

@@AJ-lm5dl You do know it isnt a baby till its born and while its legal to get an abortion ( like how far the pregnancy is) it has barely even become a fetus so there for its not murder

[@Godisgood3789]

Grotesque images? You mean REAL images?

[@goodmanisgood705]

I respect everyone’s choices but what bothers me is that almost all of the conversation stops at abortion/birth and lacks intersectionality. You care about life but what about the pregnant person? What about when the child is 5? What about when the person is 40? There becomes less and less empathy and compassion for the lives that some people fight so hard to “save”.

[@matts5164]

Forced pregnancy and forced birth can be life-threatening for anyone, not to mention the emotional trauma. It's sick to force someone to carry it against their will when we have access to safe abortion.

[@anthonystuart5724]

While I definitely think we should all be more compassionate of children born into rough circumstances, I don’t think that it is a necessary condition to oppose abortion. For example, I don’t give money to every homeless person on the street. However, if I saw someone stabbing a homeless person to death, I would still object strongly to it (to put it mildly) even if I didn’t personally help him earlier. We don’t have a moral obligation to help every person we see, be they a homeless person or a baby (although we should try to help whoever we can). However, we DO have a moral obligation to not take someone’s life.

[@anthonystuart5724]

@Valentina I hear this argument a lot. I think we should definitely have charities and organizations to help single mothers struggling financially (many pro life people have them). The problem with this argument is that it sounds like a hostage demand. Remember, pro-lifers believe that a fetus is a person deserving of moral worth, just like a newborn baby. Imagine if a woman held a knife to her six month old child’s neck, and said she would slit his throat if she wasn’t paid a certain amount of money. We would obviously see that woman as evil for using her child’s life as a bargaining chip, regardless of how dire her circumstances are. We should strive to improve life for single mother’s, but using the threat of abortion as a means to motivate that improvement is not the correct way to go about it.

[@christopherlin4706]

Banning abortion, even if abortion is wrong, is tyranny

[@Antoine7000]

Maybe because there's no campaigns for killing 5 or 40 year olds....

[@neodidi]

I like Little Dove's perspectives... She doesn't just argue based on her emotions or so.. She says her bits trying to understand others..

[@rachelshaffer6293]

I was gonna say the same thing. She is so wise with her words and acknowledges everyone.

[@ruelongcha]

they really should have had a medical professional on this panel to talk about this medical procedure... almost every discussion held here was subjective, which is fine and important, but only paints a tiny portion of the picture. I was tearing my hair out hearing people say "embryos are scientifically people," even though personhood is inherently subjective. or people repeatedly saying "abortion is a right," even though rights are often just determined by legislation. nothing here discussed medically necessary abortions (they are not as rare or unimportant as people seem to think), high-risk pregnancies, unviable fetuses, when a fetus develop neural activity that can be considered "cognition," the physical risks and impacts of pregnancy and childbirth, statistics, real-world impacts and implementation of legislation, etc... a lot was lacking from this conversation. there were many sound bytes but tbh not much was actually said.

[@miles1747]

trust me, someone describing the abortion procedures would not help the pro-choice side at all.

[@dcmarvelcomicfans9458]

I agree with you they should have talked more indep about this

[@gamemode6526]

all the things you described are pro choice weakest points.

[@randomperson-de1rs]

@@gamemode6526 How is “embryos are scientifically people” for pro choice? Please explain.

[@ruelongcha]

@@gamemode6526 I didn't describe any "points", I was listing real-world issues that medical practitioners deal with on a day-to-day basis and have knowledge about. but go off I guess...

[@jayceecollins9078]

I don’t understand saying that you shouldn’t continue the violence cycle with the rape thing. Like you didn’t have a choice in being SAed so you shouldn’t have a choice with what happens to your life? That’s gonna be even more traumatic for the victim. Basically saying you don’t get a choice ever and that’s messed up.

[@letmebetheoned5648]

Not to mention that at least 12 states allow a rapist to sue for parental rights whether they ate convicted or not and the could win. Are we ok with rapists now being able to choose the mother of their offspring? I’m not. My SIL was raped. She had an abortion because she truly felt that the trauma of the rape, the exam, the trial and all of the other negative possibilities that could happen, she would not be able to go through with having it. The morning after pill was not available yet. It was the worst thing she could ever go through.

[@compulsivenamechanger]

When she said that, I was completely taken aback and disgusted. The victim blaming is crazy.

[@SoSickRick]

So you punish the son for the sins of the father?

[@anisaantoinette6381]

The fact that there are people who would give more rights to an embryo than the adult human being that has to carry that embryo to term is insane

[@travisjohnson7065]

What do you mean, more rights? We're talking about simply allowing them to live, rather than legally killing them. How is that giving them more rights just by legally protecting their lives? It's the same right to life that all humans are supposed to have.

[@conor.3875]

@@travisjohnson7065 No human anywhere has the right to live inside someone else's body. Be serious.

[@travisjohnson7065]

@@conor.3875 Name one other way any human life is possible.

[@conor.3875]

@@travisjohnson7065 A consenting woman carrying one?

[@ranenaschemann8782]

Your moral equation of tearing someone limb from limb and sucking their brain into a vacuum and forcing someone to live with their own personal choices by not tearing someone limb from limb and ducking their brain into a vacuum is insanely misguided.

[@daenerystargaryen1440]

I have a problem with the wording "equal say". Biological fathers can absolutely have a say in it, but not equal. At the end of the day, it's the woman who carries the baby. Therefore it can't be equal

[@MysticHannah]

It can't be equal unless pregnancy occurred outside of the womb. Men need to stop pretending like the burden of pregnancy isn't entirely on the woman.

[@Lapinporokoira]

Between the conception and the Birth, it's 100% all on the woman. Those that want equal say never consider that.

[@Faikakala]

THIS! Ugh, there is no equal say because both do not have equal responsibility nor equal bodily changes when going through a pregnancy.

[@mr.multiverse1087]

Thank you for reinforcing my theory that feminists are hypocrites. We want EqUaLiTy but only when we are getting something.

[@dracarysgirl2048]

@@mr.multiverse1087 the situation isn't equal so how will it be equal?

[@songbird6414]

The guy saying “no one jumps for joy for abortion” hit the nail on the head from the beginning

[@TheDoubleJ]

i mean i have seen people act happy that they got a abortion

[@kashatnick]

the women doing "shout my abortion" kind of disproved that one.

[@liamjaeb20676]

Yeah if you jumping and screaming for an abortion, that's messed up

[@keoni_6375]

Let me introduced you to an app called "TikTok"

[@homosexualitymydearwatson4109]

@@TheDoubleJ people that are happy they get an abortion are happy they avoided making a mistake.

[@pt820]

Alaya the anti abortion girl just had an abortion 🤨

[@autograndeunlimited]

Proof?

[@pt820]

@@autograndeunlimited go on r/ destiny someone posted her article

[@pigeon00002]

​@@autograndeunlimited I can link screenshots of her substack post admitting it.

[@sofiaestaenlaluna]

“I don’t understand how anyone can justify using their personal beliefs to take away the human rights of others” wow girl I love you

[@Crimson_Grin]

I’m all for guilting and shaming women who get abortions , it also should cost upper of 10k $$$

[@hithere4324]

@@Crimson_Grin You should work on your empathy towards others.

[@Crimson_Grin]

@@hithere4324 I have empathy for the children that are murdered by irresponsible women . so accuse me of being a sociopath, I’m holding women accountable.

[@Nothing-37125]

Killing a human life as murder is a personal belief to you? Girl this comment is not it

[@acebinko1]

Abortion was never a human right to take away.

[@bad1788]

I wish there was more education on how dangerous pregnancy and birth are. There is such a cultural notion that it's a magical process and risk free, which has serious impacts on pregnant people. Including wanted pregnancies, people carry to term feeling like failures because of how difficult this major body process is.

[@samkelly4132]

The US has THE HIGHEST maternal mortality rates in the developed world (And these rates are even higher for pregnant people of colour) But this fact is ignored and people are told “just do the 9months, give birth, and then move on”, but it’s SO dangerous!

[@ClaraRodriguez16]

THIIIIIIS

[@mark1.]

@@samkelly4132 I sort of agree. 2.01% in 2019. Scary, but not SO dangerous like the way you said it.

[@boopyournose5698]

Agree. And unfortunately, there is nothing magical about it. And society doesn't even want to talk about how often complications happen during childbirth. And when it comes to mortality rates for women, the fact that abortion could have prevented it alone says that abortions should be accessible. A person that is fully functional and aware is more important to me than an unborn child that probably would die together with his mother anyways. We have to see a bigger picture of things.

[@evantomski3171]

You're talking about pregnancy like it's some sort of disease.

[@ahtzirirosales1899]

When none of the pro life people stepped up when they asked if abortions should be available to incest and rape victims I started to cry. It’s horrible how they want to take that choice away from them. Horrible.

[@zee3924]

I know that was awful

[@AJ-lm5dl]

You want to take the choice of life away from innocent defenseless babies because of the crimes of their fathers. *That's* horrible.

[@zee3924]

@@AJ-lm5dl no we want to give the mother a choice

[@libertynolan357]

@@AJ-lm5dl We don't think that at all. We think that it's unfair and cruel to force the mother to endure the pain and suffering from it

[@khadijahjones2460]

@@AJ-lm5dl so you don’t think it’s damaging for a child to learn they are the product of rape or incest ? You guys don’t care about the well-being of the child it seems. Very limited selfish view

[@ZoeBarboza1999]

I think it’s interesting that people tend to say “if it’s medically necessary, or if the woman’s life is at risk” but there are many many situations where a woman doesn’t even know that her life is going to end up being at risk. Pregnancy is always a risk to the mother.