Judging the DANUSER LEGACY | Pyro Reacts to T&E's Trial of Steve Danuser

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Original video: • The Trial of Steve Dan...
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[@uninhibition31]

Accolonn loves Steve Danuser, he has so many videos of him 🤣

[@VegardLaur]

🤣

[@Desolaytore]

Wasnt mad about the burning of Tel, it was just a terrible choice in cities to be attacked and amounted to nothing. Half the Horde wouldnt attack it anyway cause alot of them are members of the Cenarion Circle and such. Attacking UC ended up being pointless too, no new territory has been taken by either faction, atleast ingame.

[@OhNoTheFace]

This. It was so pointless, and if they were writing their characters correctly 80% of the horde should have abandoned her right there

[@rsmith8113]

It would have worked if the Horde had no other choice or if they accidentally burn it during the battle. The “Horde bad, they burn tree” was really dumb.

[@Desolaytore]

@@rsmith8113 They could have really done some cool shit. A huge naval attack of Azsuna, massive southern barrens battle, anything. The devs are just uncreative.

[@youtubedeletedmynamewhybother]

And it sucks because they COULD have had ingame territories change hands/be conquered. Instead they seemed to have backtracked and realised they didnt want to go through with it and just forfeited all warfare for like... 2 expansions...

[@andrecseta]

what a legend, the ammount of damage done in 12 months will never be replicated

[@hobosnake1]

It was also Alex Afrasiabi. Arguably the worst decisions (burning of teldrassil, sylvanas, Arthas in shadowlands) were afrasiabi. You can't blame it all on Danuser. Also, Danuser wrote a lot of the lore in Legion that gets extreme praise, such as the whispers of nzoth in the Emerald Nightmare. I think Danuser is a good scapegoat, but it was blizzard as a whole that sucked during shadowlands.

[@TigernachVT]

"This book-this 'chronicle'-is meant to bring it all together and reinforce the overarching narrative that LIES at Warcraft's heart." The preface has numerous hints; 'lies at Warcraft's heart' LOL

[@guinness12691]

RE: the primus and jailer, im sure its been pointed out ad nauseum but man that statue of the primus in maldraxxus sure looks a hell of a lot like Zovaal after he was empowered particularly the head portion. also always hated how the runecarver was supposed to be the primus when it was so clear that it was meant to be the jailer chained up. it might be nitpicky but the primus' horns cannot fit in that mask. it is all far too plain at the last considering the jailer concept art that their positions were meant to be switched and may indeed still be the case.

[@Dadbot]

I couldn’t agree more. This is a huge problem I’ve always had. I need transparency. I need to know ow exactly wtf happened with the silhouette behind sylvanas. And primus and runecarver and zoval. None of it makes sense. And everyone just seems to look past it

[@blueshoals]

28:47 There is nothing I love more than watching a HUGE NERD talk passionately about hardcore nerd stuff.

[@preds43]

Taliesin does realize that the Shadowlands stuff is gonna be expanded upon a fuck ton, yeah? Hell, there is a fucking Progenitor spider that got leaked in TWW's files

[@Ozraevun]

Before Dragonflight I liked the Red Dragon Queen... After DF I legit hate her. And this is ONLY because of how she's been written for this expansion. This is exactly what happened to me with Malfurion during Legion. Didn't really like Malfurion before that, but I can't STAND him AFTER Legion.

[@DefenderX]

Just wanted to comment that the thumbnail is awesome! 🔥

[@nERVEcenter117]

To address the beginning, moving to a realm you're not built for: Engineers and programmers face this problem all the time. Most just want to keep engineering and programming. Some see the poisoned fruit of "promotion" as too juicy, and end up in people-oriented management positions doing endless meetings when they'd rather be making stuff. A lot of companies actually lose a massive amount of energy and productivity from their best talent by taking "the ladder" for granted and putting people in positions they shouldn't be in. Companies should pay people more for the job they do well and the institutional knowledge they've accrued; people themselves should understand where they do their best work.

[@Tubular1845]

Diablo 4 was absolute garbage at launch outside of the main campaign. That D4 was an 8/10 at launch is kind of an insane take. There was no endgame, the itemization was absolute garbage, the skill trees are boring, every class is just builder-spender, nightmare dungeons are a bad system and its a full-price game with insane prices in the store. I liked the campaign even if it meanderered too much about halfway through but as an ARPG and a Diablo game it was absolutely disappointing. If anything Diablo 4 is a prime example of a game that needed more time in the oven, not a game that they held back on until it was ready.

[@patrikzotaj4528]

will danuser's creepy obsession with sylvanas as her fan come to an end.

[@Kross415]

This is why I love they're going for a trilogy now... Narrative CONSISTENCY, I'm fine if they want to kill off characters or burn cities or whatever they want but make it make sense. I know a lot of people that don't want to touch wow because they think it has no story at all. Even people that have been playing for years don't even know what the story is.

[@AchillesofOblivion]

FINALLY!

[@davidm4025]

I just had an idea to speculate on :) . I heard you or Accolonn say, one of the wow devs. said, that colors in cinematics are very important. I just looked at the 3 expansion globe colors orange, blue/purple, and bright goldish colors for each one respectively. Any thoughts on what those colors might represent? (Sargeras, Elune, Aman’Thul?)

[@Pallyforeva]

Mfers real quiet until B-Zerith shows up at A-Zerith's door

[@Zantetsudex]

Which book was it you tore up to wipe with? That may be worth a read.

[@stephaniec3759]

I am of an age now, which is old lol, that I could care less who F'ed it up, Just FIX IT. Legion was absolute fire.

[@DracoSuave]

By the time Legion dropped, everyone should have clued in that WoW's good storytelling was happy accident and not actually out of technical prowess that they slipped from.

[@youtubedeletedmynamewhybother]

@@DracoSuave No they had forethought. For YEARS. You're forgetting everything leading from OG RTS Warcraft all the way to WOTLK. And even leading up to Legion we STILL had smart story tie ins and references etc. Then you transition into the "modern era" and suddenly the writing is pretty mediocre for multiple expansions with almost no real tie ins. It wasnt a fluke bro, its the same corporate fucking nonsense thats ruining every other entertainment industry as we speak. And they clearly noticed this themselves or we wouldnt know the names of the next *Three* expansions.

[@TheGrey08]

One thing overlooked a lot is that Danuser left Blizzard around the same time they were forcing people back to the office. He lives in Minnesota, not Cali.

[@maximad5997]

Honestly Steve Danuser kind of ruining a lot of good characters, storylines etc. Resembles his tenure and how much the lore community/playerbase hated him. There was no 'narrative design' if at all in terms of lore not in BFA, Shadowlands, Dragonflight. Good example was a good beginning at Dragonflights expansion though I rather wish they should've kept Raszageth alive since it was super interesting character especially her 'scolding' Wrathion for defending Alexstrasza and sparing him in another cinematic like her basically telling him indirectly 'they been lying too you a lot.' But then we get to 10.1 where the Story was so badly designed while it was there it felt like a crap ton of things was missing and it was a rushed story. You didn't find out much about anything until you read the Dragonflight Book later on what happened that Alexstrasza probably made a big mistake in basically allowing titans too kidnap Primal/Proto-dragons eggs too forcefully convert them into Dragons in WoW. You also have a deeper understand and feel even sorry for Neltharion/Deathwing when you realize his motivation, his doubts about even being afraid of disappointing Alexstrasza and he was thinking too deeply as a 'general' that he basically started his own downfall especially Void finally latched onto him during his Battle against Raszageth and his own Dracthyr. In-game? It doesn't exist if at all. You're going into something blind or don't even know what or why characters acting this way and that. Also apparently Raszageth while....'vicious' (That's putting it lightly) towards Dragons and dragon aspect. Held a greater respect towards the Primal dragons and was quite revered amongst them, hence her being imprisoned by Neltharion started the war.

[@tythealkemist9856]

Great video, and then another great video at the end with the snippet of Alan Watts at the end lmfao

[@OhNoTheFace]

I do thinking exploring the afterlife ruins a lot of better stories, with some many ideas n after life in wow. But no, no death has to mean anything if we can still go talk to them every once in a while now. Dunno if they could have just skipped out, but the whole of the expansion as an idea seemed poor. I only want to acknowledge it for Anduin's trauma and ignore it from now on haha

[@youtubedeletedmynamewhybother]

I kinda think blizz got too excited about sending us to crazy realms and realities outside of azeroth without actually thinking about the longterm implications. Even if they try to tie old SL stuff into the new story its just going to feel weird. Who's going to be excited when they announce Korthia round 2? No One.

[@Dadbot]

I like hearing what you think… for some reason lol. I’m quite glad you’re back to WoW

[@afishynado6812]

I just feel like people want some canonical canon to latch onto, and feel like it's a bait and switch.

[@gasolinefires]

Danuser needs to be blacklisted and put into prison

[@Haplo2006]

I can't fucking stand Taliesin's goblin smirk.

[@chedder9999]

Hate that Taliesin.

[@TaliesinMyrddin]

Never met anyone who does that when they're nervous/anxious?

[@youtubedeletedmynamewhybother]

@@TaliesinMyrddin name checks out

[@TaliesinMyrddin]

@@youtubedeletedmynamewhybother Always a pleasure to see takes from people who don't know their mythology

[@spaceyzane9275]

I liked ardenweald, it still is today, the best looking forest/ jungle in WOW’s engine.

[@charlayned]

I like both the takes in this. I've felt the same, that there was just something "lacking" in Shadowlands. It didn't feel right, especially Bastion. Even Ardenweald was getting drained by the anima, the first scenes with sacrificing some for all was heartbreaking, but the story didn't really carry though the zone. I play for the lore, for the story. I'm not into raiding, dungeons, PvP, I want to do the lore. As a writer, watching how others do it gives ANY writer an education, even if you think you have it down. I also think some of the cringy dialogue wasn't vetted properly. Metzen's the lore guy, but he's also the Thrall guy and the Varian guy. He knows the "voice" of those characters, he knows what they would and wouldn't say. You could say he IS them. It's easier to do in a novel, but with a game and a cast as big as it has, those voices get muddled. If I ruled Blizz, one thing I would make sure of is that each major character has a consistent voice, which is checked by the designated "character". You can have multiple writers (and yes, they do), but the dialogue needs to be read out in a conference with all the 'desgnees" in the room doing that part. Metzen is Thrall, someone else is Anduin, another is Jaina, and so forth. Their job is to know that character, his flaws, the good parts, a back story that reflects the changes the character is going through. So, we do a table read just like in a movie/TV production, where people get together, read the parts out loud and critique. Thrall wouldn't say "Bro, you need to snap out of it." That's not the way he talks. The "Disney" ending to the Blue Dragonflight saga might have been improved by a table read by the characters. And yes, I agree with your and Tali's conclusions, but Pyro, dear, please don't blow a vein getting upset, I worry about the blood pressure aspect. But I love your passion (and you're why I bought Chronicles).

[@Terrados1337]

I am not against the way Chronicles is written. Tho I was stumped when I found out about it at first. I still feel like we need at least some reliable information - objectively true information - about some of the core inner workings of the WoW universe. What are titans? What are void lords? Is the cosmology chart showing something abstract or are there spacial representations of them? It looks like we get some answers in the coming trilogy so I am hopeful. By all means, make Aman'thul the BBEG. Or have some unknown force attack the seat of the pantheon while they play jailer (ugh) for Sargeras. Have the Naaru turn on the living or show us an actual void lord. Have dagger lady resurrect all old gods and bring the hour of twilight. Have Murozond revert Azeroth to the time of the Sundering, or the Troll wars, or the Black Empire. Anything. Literally tell any story. But please not another Naruto style puppet master of a puppet master of Hogger's left testicle.

[@ScarlettSpitfyre]

This is exactly what I've been commented on many Pyro's videos or Accolonn. This type of writing is bad writing, the level of bad like in J J Abrams movies/series, where he started with really good stories, but he can't continue or end them on the same note. He did it with series like Alias, Lost, Fringe, Almost Human, Alcatraz, Revolution, Persons of Interest, Westworld and movies like Star Trek, Star Wars, Mission Impossible 3 (after that they never let him touch the director's chair again, only producer), Cloverfield and many more. And his explaining of doing this is how he makes films by having, and I quote: "mystery boxes upon mystery boxes into mystery boxes about mystery boxes". He introduces mysteries and never explain them and after it continues with a rehashed story from other creators, he ends them badly. The exact same thing is in Warcraft: you can't advance the story, without explaining some of the big mysteries of the universe and instead introducing other mysteries. This is a trope, used by the writers to hide the fact that they don't have an idea to explain or close something and they are using more mysteries to let the audiences think for themselves, which is not a bad thing to let the audiences decide for themselves about a mystery, but when you want to advance the story you can't have that many mysteries and never explain them and introduce others. I'm not saying that all the Warcraft mysteries need to be explained, but there are some of them that really needs to be explained to advance the story like who is Elune and what is her thing or what is the relation between Old Gods and Void Lords or what is the relation between Titans, First Ones and Eternal Ones, are they like the same race, but from different points in time or are they like creators of creators of creators or ??? Or some big explanation for all the cosmological forces... Anything...

[@OhNoTheFace]

The Nathanos thing was just people taking old nerdy tweet he made and combining it with just how shit and lazy Nathanos was as a character. Baseless, but Nathanos was really that unliked, and for good reasons. It's dumb, but people were just annoyed at how shit the character was

[@ShinPG]

I have not read chronicles myself, but I think the easiest fix for the consumer (to make it more obvious if you will) would have been to have some points in the same book not fit together or not fit known wow fact. You can see this in texts like the Bible for instance, where it’s clear that parts of the old testament were later rewritten by a different author to conform to latter narratives that don’t quite fit previous ones. just needed an extra push to make it obvious to the consumer that it's biased history and not fact.

[@thegamemattster]

Any chances Vyrranoth is still actually somewhat Evil? Like what if Metzen originally had a Primal Incarnates plan and needs her for later? What if she goes wild in The Last Titan and joins Iridikron and TwoFaces Alexstrasza

[@aidanfedorochko3728]

Don’t know if this is a hot take: Nathanos is fun and is one of the better parts of shadows rising and the Sylvanas novel. He is funny, is witty, and actually has good character development of slowly realizing Sylvanas is losing herself. I actually like him and Sylvanas to come back in Midnight to help defend silvermoon.

[@bonefetcherbrimley7740]

I like Nathanos too.

[@AchillesofOblivion]

I liked him because he wasnt a kiss ass

[@youtubedeletedmynamewhybother]

@@AchillesofOblivion 0.0 Brother he was *Very Literally* sylvanas' simp. His ENTIRE existence as an undead and even when he alive, was in Direct service to her, Thats not even mentioning the sex. Dictionary definition of an in-universe kiss ass lmao. Literally.

[@AchillesofOblivion]

@@youtubedeletedmynamewhybother to the player i mean obviously

[@dankiusmemeiusmaximustheth1648]

What if the classic team re-releases WoD or the live game does WoD remix, but they actually develop it and fix the missteps they had taken? Would be cool

[@bonefetcherbrimley7740]

That would be cool, yea! Give us the missing raid tier!

[@PrecisionPony]

Pyro missed the 2 minute video of Chris Metzen saying that Chronicles was meant to be hard canon.

[@KC-py5vq]

Well link it then

[@nathaliemlromer]

A bit off topic... I was just doing a random soul bind in Bastion. Do you realise that soulbinding with Pelagos might also mean that the Crown of Wills is going to affect the mortals who did this... Future consequences can be blamed on Danuser too. LOL

[@stevencurtis7157]

_"A definitive tome of Warcraft history"_ _Definitive_ history. You could hardly make that more strongly worded to say it's the actual history without making the description unnecessarily awkward. If you tripped on a literally invisible wire, is that your fault?

[@natewelch1643]

Problem is you have people so used to skipping through the game at warp speed that they probably skipped reading the preface. Sadge

[@natewelch1643]

Also history is always correct and never biased and you’re a bad person if you think it is. /s

[@gampie13]

frankly, wow does a terrible job delivering lore and story to the player. The massive wall of text of nothingness trains the players to NOT read the massive nothing wall of text. So when you actually have something important in that wall of text, no one will give a shit about it

[@OhNoTheFace]

Some of us still read and watch, and it still lacks telling you what is actually needed

[@TigernachVT]

I truly believe they cut expansion short. Danuser had to sacrifice the plot and tried to fit 20 pounds of plot in a 5 pound bag. I wonder if pyro should ask danuser about that on or off the record.

[@TekharthaMondatta]

Definitely a call to look back at past misgivings, this. I was in the "Danuser sux" crowd and I'm not proud of it anymore, similar to a lot of people. Guy got laid out by the fandom and I hope he's happier with a lot of this behind him.

[@badgertom6153]

3:50 The Burning of Teldrassil was his Finest work 😀. No joke. Shadowlands was dogshit though, they ruined Arthas, Sylvannas, Nathanos....

[@patrikzotaj4528]

it was danuser who ruined arthas.

[@DataCymru1701]

I never liked Denuser, terrible narrative director, in my opinion!

[@ProfessorBinks]

Man thinks LOST is bad. This proves he lacks critical thinking and therefore shouldn't be taken seriously on his opinions about anything.

[@bonefetcherbrimley7740]

I am not a man of Lost. I liked it right up until the ending when it was revealed that they've been dead and in limbo the entire time. That killed my interest in the series entirely.

[@ProfessorBinks]

@@bonefetcherbrimley7740 you need to rewatch at least the ending of you think they were "dead the whole time"

[@OhNoTheFace]

Not bad, but definitely overrated

[@bonefetcherbrimley7740]

@@ProfessorBinks Can you elaborate? So far as I remember the ending, (and this was years upon years ago.) They all died on the plane crash and were stuck on the island as it was a sort of purgatory for their ghosts. Which I think was pretty stupid personally. Ruined the series for me entirely.

[@ProfessorBinks]

@@bonefetcherbrimley7740 that's the common miscommunication with the ending, so I don't blame you. In the last episode they are dead, but it's due to a time skip. Basically everything you watched does happen and they're alive, and then when they die, they go to that building in the last episode to meet up one last time before they move on to the next life.

[@Moonshainu]

Regarding words used in dragonflight..spmeone had a fetish for "above and below" said slow.