Why Routers SUCK (At Details)

Routers have an undeniable place among the furniture maker's core tools. However, that doesn't mean they're the right choice for every task. In fact, in some cases, like edge details... routers SUCK. Why? Let me count the ways...
Items I use:
Dewalt Trim Router: amzn.to/3LbCbTF
45 deg Chamfer Bit: amzn.to/3KRRejU
Veritas Spokeshave: www.leevalley....
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[@shawnkirsch]

This video is me. Once I learned how to Spokeshave, my router getting way less usage.

[@ENCurtis]

It’s a game changer 100%. So much more enjoyable in the right moments, too.

[@apistosig4173]

Q: how many spokeshaves do you have? Do you also employ scrappers?

[@shawnkirsch]

@@apistosig4173 I think I have 4 now. A curved, flat in both large and small. And yes card scrapers is important!

[@ENCurtis]

@@apistosig4173 absolutely I do. And more than is necessary 😂 maybe 6?

[@dannielfriedrichsen7226]

Good timing. This idea/technique is just right for my current project. Also, good reminder of Krenov's thinking.

[@ENCurtis]

Love to hear it man. And yes, Krenov's philosophy is one I keep in the back of my mind with regularity.

[@thenext9537]

The struggle is real. I hate routers. I’m finishing a table (walnut) and doing a 1/8” round over. I feel like the tool is designed to murder you. The second it’s made it’s designed to kill you. Like a helicopter.

[@UnbreakableIcePick]

Stumpy knubs once said "what a router takes off, you can't sew back on" and now i think about that line every time i have to start up a router lol

[@thenext9537]

@@UnbreakableIcePick Yea, basically. I have a Bosch 2.5 hp, it's heavy and when I put the 2" flattening bit on it, I have to make sure it's tight on it's metal rails for sled. I much prefer the smaller palm routers.

[@Aaron-nj4ou]

So true. Router makes quick work but it can also destroy something very quickly. I also hate the amount of dust it spews out. Seems to be one of the worst for such a small tool.

[@emerald1587]

What a convincing demonstration of the difference between artificial production and an artistic finishing touch. Very inspiring, thank you!

[@ENCurtis]

I’m glad you like it! Thanks for watching 👊

[@andydaoust2030]

That was a transformative change in what was an already awesome design. Thanks for making me think about buying some hand tools!

[@ENCurtis]

Thank you!

[@bradalden6520]

Great video Erik! I found your channel a couple weeks ago and I'm really enjoying what you're doing. The videos are entertaining and educational. I really hope you show the table once it's complete. Looking forward to more videos.

[@ENCurtis]

Thank you so much! And yes, will definitely show the table when it’s finished

[@TWC6724]

Huge fan of the details! Especially with hand tools! One of my favorite additions to some of my projects is scalloping texture with smaller gouges.

[@ENCurtis]

I love me some texture!

[@AlbinacersGaming]

Love watching your videos. Highly informative and thought provoking. Don't ever stop making them. We learn a lot from them, from you. Thank you.

[@GregJorgo]

Go the hand tools! Nice work mate!

[@IQLion]

I find this quite interesting and definitely see what you mean by difficulty with doing this using power tools. I just did something similar when building a desk for my wife and wanted a dynamic roundover that transitioned from about 1/4 inch roundover to a square corner. The router part was simple, but at some point I had to transition to hand tools, then eventually to sander and manual sanding block to blend it all together.

[@quickerways2965]

Great - was working on picture frame and was just considering what to do to that's subtle ... this has inspired - thanks

[@ENCurtis]

Love to hear that!

[@quickerways2965]

@@ENCurtis The plane of choice, this time, was compass plane, about time I blew the dust off that plane... must say it does a nice edge detail.... rather easily.. it will get more use.... look forward to your next take on woodworking...

[@ga5743]

You don’t have to convince me about hand tools….I rarely use my router because of the noise it makes. I consider it an outside tool. Love my planes. Enjoy your day.

[@ENCurtis]

It certainly is a useful tool but it has its place. And sometimes you simply need to be quietly present in the work.

[@walterrider9600]

thank you . interesting point

[@mikeandlucky]

Thanks for the beautiful and extremely well produced instructional videos. I love to watch an artist at work. There is definitely beauty in a skilled woodworking artist with a spokeshave and a block plane.

[@ENCurtis]

Thank you, my friend. I really appreciate the kind words 🙏

[@RayFromTheHayclan]

Hello Eric. I just found your channel and subscribed. In the process of watching all your other videos. You did a very good job of explaining this concept and showing how to use it.

[@FredMcIntyre]

Awesome stuff Erik! 😃👍🏻👊🏻

[@ENCurtis]

Thanks, Fred!

[@jimrosson6702]

Amazing video such a beautiful table can’t wait to see it finished. Thank you for sharing your amazing talent and craftsmanship and artistic talent I hope someday day that I can learn how to use hand tools in this way I’m new to woodworking and just starting out its videos like yours that give me inspiration thanks

[@ENCurtis]

Thank you so much. I’m glad you’re finding value in my videos 🙏

[@jimrosson6702]

@@ENCurtis I definitely find value in your videos for sure thank you for sharing

[@georgetumillo446]

OK, I’m sold. Using the spokeshave, definitely gave more character to the legs, then could be achieved by simply using a router. because there are four identical legs, do you concern yourself with making each of them nearly identical?

[@davidjones8070]

Stick with the original theme and your statement on detail...details to me are huge in the type of artwork your producing. Yours is in the fine art wood pieces. Most will still use the router because doing it your way takes skill and practice. Im a total nut for detailed work. Those that take the time are rewarded with something special that brings a sense of pride to a piece and becomes an heirloom.

[@SamsTopBarBees]

Very interesting, I did think the base looked boring a flat, kind of lifeless, the way it was before. It's surprising how much life a little edge profiling added. It's so important to mill clean flat and square surfaces that I think it's easy to forget that such things aren't natural and end up only focusing on machine perfection. Very helpful, thanks :)

[@ENCurtis]

Wharton Esherick said that there are no straight lines in nature. I hold to that philosophy where I can. And using the details to impart movement can make all the difference.

[@SamsTopBarBees]

@@ENCurtis I hadn't thought of using edges to imply motion, it makes sense though. I'll have to do some experimenting.

[@apistosig4173]

Electric Routers have their place - and in their place they should be kept. Their strength is the myriad of cutter profiles and those old hand tools that do the same are difficult to come by.

[@BakerVS]

Very nice approach!

[@ENCurtis]

Thank you!

[@biscuittreewoodworks]

Great job explaining the concept and I love that you showed the application in an actual project!

[@ENCurtis]

Thank you!

[@Crushwokery]

While I agree whole heartedly with your wisdom I feel the artistic touches you implement to your pieces is wasted on the average pair of eyes. Your work is art. Put 100 people in front of a painting and if your lucky only 2, 3,4 of them will see and appreciate it's quirks, details and joy it conveys. My wife is a prime example. I could repaint a room in the same colour to clean an freshen it up. Not a word 😡 won't notice. I get a hair cut, even a baaad haircut, not a comment 🤣 Put that amazing table your working on when finished, she'll see the table, may say that nice but would never in a million years spot the subtleties you've incorporated. It's sad. Love your work and how your mind works.

[@Swarm509]

Love what a spokeshave can do. I'm just starting out but built one of Paul Sellers "bench stools" and all the legs are straight and square, but using a spokeshave and some a few curved lines to take down the feet you would swear I carved sweeping legs carved from larger stock, but if you put a ruler to it they are are still dead straight. Probably nothing new for experienced furniture makers but it was amazing to see it come together, and whenever I see the stool I still admire the effect. All from just using a spokeshave to take down some edges and corners in the right place. That being said I built an outdoor Adirondack chair and used a spokeshave to try and round all the wood edges the same... mistake. A router would of been ideal here as I wanted it all uniform, and I had a TON of edges to do and was not looking for a "flow" to them. Luckily the chair was for myself but those edges all look very hand made and different across the piece once you get up close.

[@ENCurtis]

It's all about picking the appropriate technique for the piece. A minimalist, contemporary design may look odd with hand shaped, sweeping profiles. Glad you'd found some enjoyment in the process of hand shaping though!

[@jsmxwll]

I find myself hitting things with the router then coming back with a chisel or spokeshave to add dynamics. I'm just making things for me, but I like the speed or removing the bulk and hitting key dimensions via machining and then tuning the result to taste by hand and eye.

[@mikeabrahams3686]

gonna buy a spoke shave damn

[@Griffinwoodworks]

And just like that, I’m in the market for a spokeshave 😂. Beautiful work sir.

[@ENCurtis]

😂 love it!

[@williamshaffer2562]

Eric your artistic talent is amazing. I whole heartly agree with your reasoning. When i was a much younger lad used hand tools much much more. However, as I have aged my old body doesn't work as it did in my youth. Routers have become easier to use. So you be you bud and keep making fine videos for old guys to watch and remember. Semper Fi brother.

[@ENCurtis]

Thank you for the kind words, brother. Routers absolutely have their place and if they allow you to continue work, I say they’re all the more brilliant for it. The joy of making things, after all, is the goal. Our process is our own to choose. Keep on making, my man. Semper Fi 👊

[@CarlYota]

Hand tools are just so expensive though, in addition to the thousands we’ve already spent on table saws and power tools. Several hundred for each plane. And a dozen different specialty things like shoulder planes and router planes and chisels and spokeshaves. Hand tools are cool AF but I don’t want to spend another $3000 on woodworking stuff. 😂

[@1deerndingo]

Thank you. It opens the world of detail design that's missing in my hobby pieces. I'll watch this a few times to "get" it.

[@ENCurtis]

I’m glad it resonated 👊

[@grahamcameron7628]

The lost art of craftsmanship, very nice. A paradigm shift for me. Well presented. Thank you.

[@ENCurtis]

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it.

[@spycedezynuk]

Love this take. My thing with a router chamfer is it’s great on external edges. But where the inside edges meet it adds a round and doesn’t always fit with the sharpness of a nice chamfer. Like the result from mitred profiled pieces are much cleaner looking.

[@ENCurtis]

Agreed. They both have their applications for sure.

[@diveparis]

Totally agree. I am currently working on a Sam Maloof style rocker and have used the spoke shave extensively throughout the build to form gentle curves and flowing lines that couldn't be done with a router. It has become one of my favorite tools that before I hardly used. Can't believe what I had been missing. Plus it has just been so much fun working with it.

[@tomhoworth9768]

That internal profile is very Morley-ish. Well done.

[@ENCurtis]

A compliment of the highest degree. Thanks Tom 👊

[@SuperWingman69]

Eric, Can creativity be taught?? I love woodworking/making but I don't feel creative. I can copy other peoples designs really well, I have difficulty coming up with my own designs.

[@frostavetur]

As much as I love the spokeshave. I would not trade it out for a router in my professoonal setting making 30 - 40 pc. Batches of windows and doors out of jatoba....🎉

[@mikegrier2829]

The two pieces of pine didn’t convince me, for some reason. I guess because I don’t yet make beautiful things. I’m just not yet that far along in my evolution as a maker. But, as soon as you started with the table supports my brain was immediately saying no way in heck would I touch that with a router spinning at a million RPM. If nothing else it would be super easy to ruin the piece. Add to that the lack of artistry and it became a sacrilege to do anything but what you did. Many thanks.

[@juansolana8457]

Buenos días from Madrid. Any chance that you made a Spotify list with the songs of your videos?. Love those raw guitars…Saludos!!

[@fredpierce6097]

And it should be understood that curves and facets from hand work affect how light reflects off the piece……and ultimately, reflected light is the only reason that something looks the way it does……☀️ 🌈

[@steverochon1620]

Kudos for your decision to feature an often overlooked tool in the spokeshave. I’d love for you to expand on this if you’re so inclined. But brutha, you need to stop digging into the Katz-Moses soundtrack!

[@NewmanSpecialsWoodwork]

Another great video brother. I like the look of this piece and the info! 🙌

[@ENCurtis]

Thank you brother 👊👊

[@NewmanSpecialsWoodwork]

@@ENCurtis you are the man brother

[@bluewren65]

It can be hard to appreciate these subtle differences on a video where even lighting is required to make it filmable. However, in a a real world interior, where the light moves and changes those subtle curves and profiles make the furniture come to life as light bounces off it in a myriad of ways.

[@bluewren65]

What is that bendy, long ruler thingy and where can I get one?

[@rednekokie]

I have seen it over and over again in these videos, and finally have to ask: What the hell does COW DOG AF mean??????

[@Wolf-yw7en]

Recently discovered your channel. Like your style mate. W🇦🇺

[@j10001]

This was profoundly insightful. Thank you!

[@ENCurtis]

I'm really glad you took something from it 🤘

[@dryerthackston7088]

I really enjoyed the video and the way you lay out your thought process. How would you suggest that a total noob like me gets started with hand planes?

[@aumike66]

The same story with guitar and piano. Much easier to play a scale on the latter tolerably well, but if the bend is what you want ...

[@clemoniii]

That was a fabulous video! Thank you. It is clear you've become a very creative, accomplished furniture design/ builder. That said, I'll always think of you by the tribal name "Stick on wall". 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@ENCurtis]

Thank you. And hey, stick on wall works well enough for me 😂😂

[@dekim631]

The play with light and shadow lines through edge profiles give the piece, personality. Pekovichs Tansu cabinet a a play with 1\16ths. Where as just an extra 16th on just the face of the door rails gives it character. Using a spokeshave if fun, but restraints to not over doing it is important.

[@ENCurtis]

Restraint is one of the more important skills to develop from a design perspective. It simply comes with practice.

[@davidshirk2024]

Amen brother!

[@randsipe224]

To me the router, I use it, but it feels violent as opposed to the zen like feeling of planing with a well tuned plane.

[@RetrieverTrainingAlone]

A faceframe 1/16 inch too large and a flush trim bit router!

[@anthonydtobias]

I have a Japanese chamfer hand plane that I love, but I suppose that falls in the router category, It leaves a perfect chamfer but with the use of a hand tool. Lol it's funny, the older I get the more I like hand tools... Power tools are just so loud and violent when using ha ha ha using hand tools is way more enjoyable and rewarding.

[@ENCurtis]

There’s nothing wrong with consistency if that’s what the piece calls for. And if you enjoy using the chamfer plane, I say use it! I use consistent edge breaks regularly. But they for some reason just strike differently when done by hand. Perhaps it’s the imperfect angle or inconsistencies that make it more human… 🤔

[@rattlejake0422]

double points for using the word "synergistic" ....

[@simonmills2375]

Mate. I think you are right. I did know this somewhere in my subconcious. Very much appreciate you pointing it out and showing us how it works. Brilliant. Cheers

[@ENCurtis]

I’m glad it resonated with you my dude. Thanks for watching 🙏

[@RMCD73]

Thanks for all the intel and tips. Much appreciated by a Belgian weekend woodworker. Your eye for detail really transfers to me. I can feel your passion for the art in these videos. It has caused me to invest more time into learning how to handcraft with some basic tools and trying to master the art instead of endlessly buying expensive machines and novelties. On the other hand, you're giving me 'YOU' vibes though.. I don't know why.

[@bluewren65]

Erik is handsome and charming (like the guy in You), but I doubt he is a serial killer. Or at least, I hope not 🤣

[@TwoMooseDesign]

Woah 🤌🏼

[@ENCurtis]

Eh thanks buddy 😎👊

[@nagranoth_]

Oh great, now I have to rethink the details of my table...

[@Hawk2phreak]

My man. You look absolutely swole! Great video as always

[@Old_Man_Pete]

Two types of woodworkers, those who work with wood and those who craft something out of wood, power tools have taken the craft out of craftsman and you sir, are a craftsmen.

[@ENCurtis]

Thank you, sir 🙂

[@mariehankdueck8125]

Not to mention how noisy and dusty those screaming banshees are!

[@rollingstone3017]

One thing I'm learning in my woodwork is just how philosophical one can get. I learn as much about myself as I do the material. Creating things is truly a gift from God. Never thought it would lead to personal growth.

[@ENCurtis]

It is a parallel for personal growth, absolutely. As you increase your level of craftsmanship, you increase your patience with self and grace for inevitable human error. It’s a meditative practice, if nothing else.

[@Mark_Wood]

Really enjoying these man

[@ENCurtis]

Thank you brother 🤙

[@petercorney3125]

What do you listen to when you’re working?

[@christopherharrison6724]

Do you set your spoke shave slight to heavy?and yes details make all the difference

[@ENCurtis]

I tend to set mine with a skew, yes. Heavy to medium. And I keep a second spokeshave set for finishing cuts.

[@Mikey__R]

With more and more of our cultural output being generated by AIs, these human details in hand craft will become more and more important to people who care.

[@ENCurtis]

Could not have said it better myself.

[@deadbungeejumper]

God help me, brother you won me over with logic and eloquence! Through the whole intro I was thinking, “Eh it’s not a significant enough difference to forfeit the time savings of the router.” Now I’m going to get a spoke shave from Woodcraft on Tuesday, ha.

[@DuncanEdwards.]

I got a spirograph feel to your idea

[@terrytopliss9506]

I see your point Eric.👍👍

[@cherylridone2155]

Delightfully entertaining while being instructive. You point out how little details can(do?) alter our perception of a piece. Thank you. (David)

[@Pete-77]

Great work. And I love a good pun. For both reasons, you have inspired me "to pick up a sharp hand tool and start PLANE around a little bit."😏

[@chrishunter2097]

I like how you explore different ways to subtlety enrich your work, it inspires me to get away from just square and flat…but it hurts. Thanks.

[@robertedwards5843]

Love it, modern day Arts and Crafts.

[@jonesey1981]

Whelp, now I have to get a spoke shave, thanks!

[@christopherharrison6724]

I use my no 4 or the block plain much more satisfying

[@ENCurtis]

The no 4 is maybe my favorite shaping plane and severely underrated for the task.

[@quirkygreece]

Your music taste is great, Erik.

[@twiho]

Honestly it is difficult for me to see the diff in the video.

[@kennethreynolds1847]

The music is too loud otherwise I love you channel

[@ENCurtis]

Thanks

[@Monkey_Snot]

Every single word that came out of your mouth today was exactly what I've complained about in the past about your last few videos in me head, but I couldn't express it in words properly without coming off as an asshole lol, THIS is how I woodwork, thank you for being compassionate in explaining how you work both ways. 👊😎

[@ENCurtis]

I appreciate you trying not to be an asshole my dude 😂 I’m glad this video resonated with you 👊

[@karlviolin]

that so works !!

[@JoRoBoYo]

handtools is very expensive for some reason

[@bertbert2725]

luckily the spokeshave isn't. you can get them for very cheap and still have a good one. (just make sure to sharpen the blade well)

[@KD-hb8zi]

Relax, hand tools had me at no electricity.

[@ENCurtis]

😂👊

[@dpmeyer4867]

thanks

[@murphymmc]

Good stuff. Those little details, while looking simple, add a different dimension of complexity that flows. The other beautiful thing about using the hand tools, no dust that ends up on every surface in whatever size room you're working. Shavings are so much easier to clean up, particularly for those of us who don't have superb dust extraction systems.

[@ENCurtis]

Agreed in both counts!

[@JeffFontecchio]

Love my Saturday mornings with your videos! Thanks for being a great teacher.

[@ENCurtis]

Thanks as always, Jeff! Truly appreciate you sticking around for each video

[@RobSHoglund]

Nice guns, dude! 💪🏼

[@ENCurtis]

Haha thanks my dude 💪

[@henrysboy2]

An artisan explaining his process. Very cool. TY.

[@ENCurtis]

Thank you, as well 🙏

[@jefflavenau]

what was that little bow you used for the curve though?

[@ENCurtis]

A drawing bow! They’re fantastic. That particular bow is from veritas.

[@johnschillo4452]

oh, those are beautiful design features

[@ENCurtis]

Thank you 🙂