Kaioken: Better Than Super Saiyan?

Is Kaioken Better Than Super Saiyan - #DragonBallZ introduced a lot of things to the #DragonBall world including the likes of Kaioken and then Super Saiyan later on...however, with Super Saiyan Blue and beyond getting all the more tired, would a Super Kaioken and its return with Kaioken x20 Blue be enough to make it useful again? Is King Kai's technique actually better and more impactful than the inate Saiyan power? #DragonBallSuper
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This video is about whether Kaioken is better than SSJ.
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[@MasakoX]

Thanks for watching! Hope you enjoy it and please be sure to share this out to all your pals!

[@johannedesir9536]

You welcome thanks for the content

[@jirenthegray6401]

Well Yeah Kaioken Is Kinda Better Than Super Saiyan Because It Is Indeed Faster Than Super Saiyan And Stronger Cause The Damage Increase Of Kaioken Compared To Super Saiyan...Yeah Kaioken Wins. But It Was Forgotten About Until The Universe 6 Saga..Thats When Everyone Realised How Strong This Technique Is.And If Goku Mastered It During The 5 Year Timeskip Somehow I Believe Goku Would Body Vegeta And Decimate Frieza...Who Knows Maybe You Could Make That A What If...

[@michaelbalcom5233]

I had always thought kaio-ken required complete self control and that getting angry risked losing control and exploding your body

[@Smarfton]

Hey, I know this is all about fun and whatnot, but colors mean drastically different things. Red for example in Asian cultures means luck and life. Chinese brides wear red whereas in western culture brides wear white, because it denotes purity. In Chinese culture, white, means death. Colors in DBZ might be needed to be interpreted from a Asian perspective rather from a Euro-centric one.

[@DanJetro]

Masako, there are a technique called Kuji in and is a compound of meditation techniques that are aimed to control ki and the first one is Rin, is like, basically, kioken. Hope you can find some about it and practice it. It is much more related to kioken than any other martial arts technique out there.

[@TheWarmachine375]

*thumbnail* Oh my Kami! Kaioken Piccolo vs Super Saiyan Goku looks Pure. Unadulterated. Badass!

[@guardiantree8879]

Unless it’s the mastered SS form Goku had, Piccolo could keep up with regular SS without Kaioken... with it just with times 10 he’d probably be stronger than SS2 Gohan

[@Original_Icegod101]

Looks more like king piccolo from the face lines

[@thundergozon6439]

Maybe we'd have got that if Toriyama went through with his original idea and did Majin Piccolo vs Goku

[@MisteRRYouTuby]

Yeah. More like pure unadulterated ego.

[@TheWarmachine375]

@@MisteRRYouTuby I HEARD THAT TRICLOPS!

[@superior2096]

If you had immortality. Or extremely strong regenerative abilities. "Cough Cough Majin Buu cough Piccolo cough."

[@devilfromhell8546]

bro,majin buu could maybe go kaioken times over 9000!!! (if he learned) and I'm not joking

[@businessproyects2615]

I really don't get why doesn't krillin wish for immortality, or even Piccolo before the cell arc, Future Trunks would have had an easier time if piccolo was immortal, with dragon balls and all hopefuly. Then Kaioken on top, that would be incredibly powerful.

[@عبداللهالحربي-ث6ج7ن]

Cell too

[@superior2096]

@@عبداللهالحربي-ث6ج7ن sorry I forgot about perfect boi. He's been gone for long I forgot he technically could have the spirit bomb/kaioken, I miss him.

[@bulbasaur15]

#001 Let's all be glad that Cell didn't think to take advantage of utilizing Kaio-Ken.

[@ThatOneMotherfucker]

We all know Kaioken is superior: It gives you one free hit while your opponent is trying to figure out what you said.

[@carlwebber4094]

Kaio what

[@iSTEFIXi]

(punch)

[@bahaedablackaceenthusiast9955]

TFS refrence very epic

[@NeoMetaI]

No u

[@thundergozon6439]

Unfortunately, that one free hit is also never a finishing blow.

[@sohamsharma9439]

This was in my mind since I started dbz glad you talked about it. I think kaioken , the original one is really cool and should be used more.

[@PittsburghSonido]

Goku’s Kaioken x 10 in DBS against Hit was some of the coolest parts of DB I ever watched. Lowkey, Kaioken is slept on, imo. The only problem I have with it is the wordy mouthful it is to say. Lol

[@sohamsharma9439]

@@PittsburghSonido as for me whenever I hear kaioken, the legendary goku vs vegeta comes to my mind. I feel kaioken sounds cool too, uk the way goku shouts out the name along with the numbers. It's epic.

[@mtlztt7396]

Me too

[@EndoClaw]

Plus kaioken could go higher then SSJ witch is 50x kaioken can go infinitely if you can deal with the backlash of it going higher and higher.

[@PittsburghSonido]

@Miro Stolt And? I wasn't talking about the overall damage Kaioken outputs. I am talking about the animation, the music, the voice-acting, the hype. Come on, man. You know what I mean.

[@crisisamonginfinitedarthsa4220]

You are never going to get as much King Kai from Masako as this video. Even if he doesn't use voice acting.

[@MasakoX]

I feel like I am channeling his spirit.

[@gohanblack1406]

@@MasakoX I am good in my voice of Goku in Japanese

[@jordyplaysgamesAUTISMYEET]

You keep ending up as top comment lately, good job you!

[@crisisamonginfinitedarthsa4220]

@@jordyplaysgamesAUTISMYEET It helps to be the first without saying first. Not to mention I'm witty.

[@DreadLockedCipher]

It kinda bugs me that King Kai didn't teach the fallen Z-Fighters the Kaioken during the Namek saga. Sure, they'd probably turn to mush if they went past X3 or X4, but at least they'd be able to put up a better fight.

[@mgmg116]

Maybe he didn't know there were severe drawbacks. He told Goku not to go over Base Power x2, which is an incredibly specific number - it kind of implies King Kai may have trained a fighter long before Goku, and tried to teach them Kaio-Ken and it possibly ended badly. On top of that, King Kai couldn't actually use it himself, as he told Goku, so maybe once Goku started using x3, x4, x10, etc, the drawbacks and problems with Kaioken became more clear to him and he could have figured it was useless to teach the Z Fighters. Maybe he figured training to raise your power level permanently was a better strategy that forcing your power level to go higher during a battle. I'm guessing this, based on the fact Goku and Gohan did the same thing with Super Saiyan in the ROSAT (ie Vegeta and Trunks = forced power boost during battle vs Goku and Gohan = permanent increase through long-term training) But these are just my thoughts. I could be wrong

[@DreadLockedCipher]

@@mgmg116 Fair point. Also, if using the later multipliers contributed to Goku staying in the hospital for a bit longer until he got some beans, it'd definitely be torturous hell for the human Z-Fighters, maybe even Piccolo.

[@mgmg116]

@@DreadLockedCipher Yeah, that's definitely a possibility. Like I said, I was just guessing though. I doubt Toriyama ever thought about it as deeply as we do

[@Maximus4587]

_"Kaioken..._ *_UP TO TEN TIMES!!!"_* - *Actual line from the infamous Speedy dub (and yes, they actually pronounced Kaioken correctly...)*

[@supereststinger]

KiNg KaI fIsT

[@MasakoX]

At least that's accurate somewhat. Unlike Big Green saying Kamehameha to everything

[@Maximus4587]

@@MasakoX Yeah, the "Big Green" dub pretty much turned "Kamehameha" into a battle cry...

[@a_bionicle6635]

MasakoX Vegeta: uses final flash Big green dub: KaMeHaMeHa!

[@Maximus4587]

@@a_bionicle6635 Anyone: *_[powers up to Super Saiyan]_* "Big Green" dub: *_"KaMeHaMeHa!"_*

[@roxtechs]

Why didn’t Piccolo use the Kaioken. His body is perfect since he can regenerate.

[@sleepyboilogan5754]

Good idea Finally piccolo would not be worthless

[@romhacher5160]

@@sleepyboilogan5754 piccolo can regrow limb not much else kioken would effect him like goku

[@melon6444]

He can regrow limbs yeah, but I don't think he can heal stuff like his muscles overstraining themselves. Besides, regeneration takes a lot of stamina, even Cell and Buu showed signs of being worn down a bit after regenerating higher damage levels. Piccolo would arguably do worse than Goku with Kaio-Ken if he tried to regenerate as he'd be simultaneously battling fatigue from the strain Kaio-Ken puts on your body as well as fatigue from attempting to undo that damage quicker than it can happen. I'd argue the only ones who could handle Kaio-Ken with no damage would be either the Androids (due to their infinite energy and seeming lack of an ability to feel pain), or someone with immortality like Zamasu (never getting tired, all injuries healing almost instantly).

[@pavlo5783]

@@melon6444 He has to grow the muscles to grow the limbs so I do not think it would affect his body but I feel like it would affect his stamina heavily

[@melon6444]

@@pavlo5783 No I'm saying I don't think he can just like, repair muscle damage unless the muscle has been completely removed from his body. But yeah even if he can just heal internal wounds he'd still have a stamina issue

[@crossbones116]

King Kai kinda blows as a teacher if he only passed his lessons onto one single guy.

[@TheLuconic]

Well It's Goku's fault for not really sharing it with his friends.... The guy.

[@TheWarmachine375]

1:10 It is even more weird that the Beastmen just quietly disappeared from DBZ, leaving the humans as the dominant race on Earth as if they do not exist and it sucks. At least we see some dinosaurs in DB Super.

[@ShadowWolf767]

I think the game "dbz kakarot" explained this alittle, that beastmen was more like a body drug or something that people used, but after the popularity dropped, people used it even less and less

[@briansellers8840]

@@ShadowWolf767 Which means the king of the world was a drug user.

[@possibly_ben]

@@ShadowWolf767 furry drugs?

[@forsetigodofjusticeexcelle7506]

@@ShadowWolf767 I think it was "Animorphine" right XD? I have heavy doubts any of that should be considered a canon explination, but the game needed a reason to go through Goku's story in a short time and explain where the beastmen went suddenly. But then again what is "canon" it certainly makes more sense than "They live with Launch now"

[@MisterBluewind]

@@ShadowWolf767 wait what....!? O_O

[@ojpickle5923]

If piccolo actually got kaioken he would be a BEAST

[@supereststinger]

he would prob train it to the point where he would use x2, x4, or x10 like how goku used ssj in cell saga

[@adamcarranco142]

He could actually last longer with it. Being a slug man who can regenerate.

[@Kruegernator123]

I think it would be cooler if Piccolo got his own transformation derived from his Namekian heritage. Kaioken should be reserved for the humans.

[@edrickhuge4637]

@@amuroray88 even 5 should put Him on super perfekt cell during the cell saga. In the buu saga he should have been able to compeat With the likes of dabura easily and done better against fat buu

[@majinbuu8972]

@@Kruegernator123 you see I kinda thought the same thing.

[@Pioxys]

Thumbnail makes me wish others learn side power ups/forms like these. We'll get that Ultra Instinct Krillin someday.

[@supereststinger]

If yamcha got ui then the show would be over since he could defeat zeno

[@izackpakynte7456]

You should watch devil artemis we got ultra instinct cell yamcha an ulta instinct saibamen lol xd

[@izackpakynte7456]

Guess who could defeat mui yamcha an mui saibamen

[@izackpakynte7456]

And I really like cell vs super man in which cell says super man paid death battle to win against goku

[@gamergamer7508]

Considering DBS writing by the time krillin gets UI half the cast will already have about 6 new upgrades better than UI

[@MortimerZabi]

I'm just as interested in the implication that Ultra-instinct is not race-bound, meaning a sufficiently-talented earthling can learn it. The thought that some incarnation of Krillin elsewhere across the universes and timelines of Dragonball might be capable of it makes me giggle.

[@Banchoking]

Agreed. Also, I like your avatar. Zaku lovers for life,

[@MortimerZabi]

@@Banchoking Zakus were great. Always preferred Zeon designs over Federation ones.

[@BC08]

UI Krillin would still lack power.

[@MortimerZabi]

@@BC08 That's the fun part. He'd be untouchable but would still need help putting foes away. Also, he could make up for the power gap by being ludicrously good at targetting weak, unguarded spots. I mean, a simple ray gun was able to take down a Super Saiyan Blue.

[@TheLuconic]

Yet too many idiots want UI to be Saiyan exclusive. I heard them.... I just think how stupid they are.

[@Eric-gp3hi]

Great discussion Masako. I always felt that the Kaioken was better than Super Saiyan in the long run especially in the regard of balancing power scaling between the other members of the Dragon Team. I wish Krillin, Yamcha, Tien and Piccolo would have learned it in the Cell Arc to be balanced with Super Saiyan and it’s various grades and forms.

[@starwarsnewsandmemes8289]

It would have explained how those 4 could hold their own against the Cell Jrs. Also, could you imagine when those 4 jump in to help Gohan in the final beam struggle they look like they're doing nothing then suddenly they all for Kaioken and actually do enough damage to distract Cell and give Gohan an opening. Gohan doesn't take advantage, and realizes his missed opportunity, and won't get it again. THEN Vegeta jumps in, Gohan notes the similarity between the two distractions, and wins. Would have given those 4 some payoff for when they jumped in and helped.

[@sphjinx1448]

They should’ve learned it during the Namek saga.

[@Londonlink]

I think they said that everybody who went to King Kai Planet actually knew it so Tien Yamcha and i believe learned it

[@_Shield_Master_]

You really should do a "What If Piccolo learned Kaioken?" At this point

[@StaunchMT]

The fight against android 17 would be cool

[@_Shield_Master_]

@@StaunchMT yup

[@Cookberg]

Yes please!!!

[@thundergozon6439]

@@StaunchMT but short

[@_Shield_Master_]

@Luis Suazo link?

[@crisisamonginfinitedarthsa4220]

Masakox's statement of yellow is true. I had the sudden urge to punch something just my looking at the yellow background provided. I am not kidding.

[@MasakoX]

Too much of something and all. It can be convey happy emotions and cheer in limited quantities but then it can become obnoxious.

[@lunasilvermoon2283]

@@MasakoX Apparantly, McDonalds uses the colors Red and Yellow in combination as it's suppose to induce hunger. With this.. I deduce that a fight between Super Saiyan Goku and Kaioken Piccolo is going to have everyone watching the fight craving for Big Mac's

[@zerokura]

In Dc yellow become fear in the yellow lantern.but ya to much yellow blinds me to bright.

[@TheWarmachine375]

3:53 That would be a really awesome idea for human Z-Fighters and Piccolo to learn God Ki and take new levels of badass. And there was no rule against them from learning God Ki either at all in the first place.

[@devildavin]

"Yellow is a happy, joyful color, really makes you happy" Sinestro wants to know your location

[@cliffjumpercc3261]

Power: kiaoken>SS Stamina: Kaioken

[@BC08]

Super Saiyan is a 50x multiplier, Kaioken is Max 20x. Unless you are considering the fact that Kaioken was used on SSB in the anime.

[@decimation9780]

B C 08 *Cough* Plot BS *Cough Cough*

[@thedevilsleutice]

@@BC08 Correction Goku only ever trained it to sustain 20 potentially it has unlimited potential, so a Kaioken times 50 could be equal to a Super Saiyan power up.

[@BC08]

Majin Leutice KKx20 20 wrecks his body even with training, I think Kaioken was meant to have limits

[@headcannon5105]

@@BC08 kaiokwn dosnt have a limit the only limit is your body so if like buu went kaioken 4000 he would probably be on par with the grand priest. ( cause buu has infinite regeneration )

[@magNICKal]

Kaioken Piccolo sounds like a great idea and his green skin would clash with the red quite nicely, too!

[@TheWarmachine375]

3:35 And it was a wasted opportunity for Toriyama to actually not have the Z-Fighters (Tien, Yamcha and Chiaotzu) and Piccolo learn Kaio-Ken while they with halos on their heads were training on King Kai's planet and spectating the events on Namek during the Freeza Saga. It could have been useful and come in handy when there's the threat of the Androids coming for them especially the Cell Jrs fighting them too as well.

[@jorixpalorn3738]

Agreed. Other than the other saiyans getting the occasional pity handout, everything special has to go to goku, and only goku. which sucks

[@guardiantree8879]

Dragon with Internet connection But after SS Goku didn’t even use it anymore (except rare times in the super anime). Better to have others use his techniques so the concept isn’t lost rather than Goku being the only one who uses it but never does. Goku also has UI to keep to himself now.

[@geekhammergamer1438]

@@guardiantree8879 it would have been cool if each of the z fighters learned a new technique unique to them only from king kai

[@guardiantree8879]

Curse comment That would have been cool as well

[@unvoicedapollo3318]

@@guardiantree8879 And then Yamcha could be useful. Like wtf is he even doing on the battlefield when they basically ignored him for the Tournament of Power

[@saac3042]

Do i sense a what if piccolo learned kaioken coming up? 👀

[@TheWarmachine375]

1:48 In fairness, that was a Mythology Gag shoutout of Goku telling Broly to call him Kakarot after finding and befriending Broly and then provided housing and supplies for him, Cheelai and Lemo on Planet Vampa. In the DBZ OG Broly movie, Broly gets triggered over the name Kakarot into going LSSJ which Team Four Star had made fun of it on its only abridged adaptation of the said movie.

[@WizardMouth]

I'm pretty sure he knew that part about DBZA, considering he, you know, voices goku, gohan, etc.

[@shiningmissingno.8788]

You mean team 4 stars only adabtion? Because ssj9000's adbridged was pretty good too

[@thaisennj9781]

Shining MissingNo. Giving ssj9000 his dues I see you cuh

[@CoolJ4zz]

Yo love your work Masako! Can't wait to enjoy this!

[@5Mordecai]

Hold on a second. You're saying kaioken is derivative or rage and anger, but isn't that super saiyan that relies on anger? I thought kaioken required a good degree of focus to use?

[@LloydTheZephyrian]

I think it's concentrated anger versus feral anger. Basically, the difference between "pissed" and "absolutely livid".

[@MercuryAlphaInc]

@@LloydTheZephyrian Hm... That would explain why you can't mix Kaioken and Super Saiyan but you can mix Kaioken and Super Saiyan Blue: Super Saiyan adds onto the anger, causing you to basically explode with it (literally), while Super Saiyan Blue is all about calmness, so adding on a bit of focused anger works.

[@EpicGamer-ff8hl]

Bumblebee 24 Goku was able to go kaioken with grade 4 but I don’t think he can use it with grade 1, 2, 3, ssj2 ect

[@martijnvanweele6204]

I'd say it's more _angry_ than anger. It's a transformation that rages through and ravages your body, and in order to not destroy yourself with it, you need to be calm to balance the transformation's inherent angry nature out.

[@tylermclaughlin772]

Epic Gamer in the games he can use grade 2 kaioken and ssj2 and 3 kaioken

[@englishtwister]

Awesome Posted and appeared in my stream four seconds ago. :) Green Lanterns are weak to the colour yellow and Batman used this to his advantage to defeat Green Lantern Hal Jordan with a yellow coloured room and costume.

[@DL6778]

KaioKen would be a better training implement for powering up yourself instead of using the gravity chamber. You just have to remember to have at least a couple of senzu beans on you. Then make Yajirobe show you how to grow them. As long as you promise you won’t sell them to the main population no one will ever know and you will be 10 times more powerful than Super Saiyan in probably 3 to 5 years.

[@DanielC-vz7ki]

I absolutely loved this video comparing the kaioken and super saiyan! I'm going to rewatch goku and vegeta's battle because of this video, i had no idea the kaioken could be THIS complex!! Thank you for making this amazing video!

[@jaberawad3241]

I like Kaioken because the concept of getting it the consequences from it and the power most super saiyanSure it’s cool and getting it but it doesn’t have consequences Goku don’t know how he did it

[@invidofinp1828]

Well it was created by a god, I'm just Saiyan.

[@yorickdelange6453]

Thats an old joke

[@dragonballgacha]

-infinity respect

[@Banchoking]

Imagine an AU where Kaioken was actually how they unlocked god ki. Each level produces a little more, amplifying the user's own ki. Once fully mastered, the wielded becomes a god. I can imagine King Kai developing the technique specifically to create Beerus' replacement as revenge for shrinking his planet.

[@richardwood9784]

I think Kaioken is super cool, I also think it's only ever been used correctly once; in the fight against Vegeta. Every time after that it's just been treated like a powerup and not a multiplier. Had Goku actually multiplied his Super Saiyan Blue power by ten against Hit, he would have probably disintegrated him with single punch.

[@sharpielighter4580]

Exactly, I'd say it was used correctly during the fight with Frieza too but the way they use it in super it should stack with super saiyan blue I wish super had official multipliers

[@justanothercommenterwithan9089]

supers p-ower scalings dumb just deal with it

[@kingkurok3149]

Kaioken piccolo vs ssj Goku Probably my favorite what if match up

[@gigaphoton376]

You know, technically, with enough training you could definitely reach SSJ's power with Kaioken. But it would definitely be much harder than the insanity that is the increasingly stronger and ever changing SSJ forms. Not to mention, Saiyan physiology not only gives you access to the Super Saiyan forms, but their bodies just "react" better to training. Unless someone could increase how further they could go with Kaioken on a daily basis, it would be quite hard to keep up.

[@edrickhuge4637]

Earthlings are better at ki Control as well. So maybe that is a + to it and they seem to archive bettrr Results through Training than Sayins do. Seeing as Their base forms easily supassed sayian saga vegetaa With some training with King Kai. Of course that's for plot Reasons.

[@galarstar052]

Eh. Goku got like, what, a 30 x multiplier from training with King Kai? Using Tien as an example, he'd be around Vegeta's strength after a zenkai boost. After three years training, he could probably get to around 100,000, using the max power kaio-ken he could get to slightly above Goku's base form strength. With his improved Ki-Ko-Ho which could already hold back Cell when he was much weaker he'd be really powerful. If only the androids weren't arbitrarily more powerful than Frieza, and Cell didn't get such massive boosts in power, along with Vegeta getting Super Saiyan as early as he did we might actually have a version of Dragonball where humans are relevant.

[@edrickhuge4637]

@JBcoolbreez what are you talking about. Piccolo can just revover easily from whatever danage he is taking from the kaioken. And there stand to reason that he can get just as far goku when usung the kaioken. There is legimatly no reason for him to not be able to use the kaioken times ten or twenty. Even at a kaioken times 2 he would have been able to fair better against the likes of perfect cell and at 10 he would have been easily stronger.

[@wamrainc176]

It’s sort of like Christmas to me when I become curious about something look around on KZbin then find out one of my favorite KZbin channel covering that exact topic

[@KeysofIDproductions]

If they do the time skip to the time when GT would start, Uub would be the best candidate to learn Kaioken from Goku to pass on the torch. Uub would've caught up to the power he had when he was Buu before being reincarnated, and now surpassing him through rigorous training. Handling Kaioken with the kind of body he inherited with the same power (now pure good) would make a lot of sense. Shame Uub got wasted in GT though.

[@Vandalia1998]

If Picilo could do Kio ken with body regineration then so could cell aka android 21 from wi cell turned good and then get the Sayain Zenkai boost from it too

[@JirouLierge]

Make a "What If" out of it. "What if Piccolo learned the Kaioken?" I think him learning it in the 3 years training for the "Androids" would make more sense.

[@ghostwriter5795]

This is the best analysis of these two iconic forms.

[@bluekirby64]

I think Piccolo using Kaioken would be awesome wonder why Toriyama didn't do that

[@sleepyboilogan5754]

He regenerates too so he could be in the form longer

[@zetatetraedre7732]

To not put Goku in the shadow

[@realfallengang]

Ah this is a beautiful thing to wake up to, thank you!

[@mawatts40]

I do wish more people can learned kaioken or spirit bomb other than goku. Tien could used the spirit bomb to make a powerful tax free tri-beam. Or yamcha using kaioken to make a God version of the wolf fang fist. Kaioken is very useful for piccolo, since he can heal faster than goku.

[@then.w.a-nerdswithattitude7125]

Luffy gear 2nd is very similar to Kaioken and that monk thing you mentioned. Great work as always. Kaioken is our favorite technique.

[@CCodenameken]

Saw this pop up had to click my guy

[@MasakoX]

Thanks for popping in!

[@CCodenameken]

I got a heart yoooo from one of my fav dragon ball KZbinrs let’s gooooo

[@____________838]

Thanks for bringing up the Piccolo connection.

[@gd_godmarc8027]

What if the androids had KaioKen? They have unlimited energy and stamina. Imagine how crazy that would be. How high could they go?!

[@darkscot1338]

My thought aswell but androids don't have ki so they would need to manipulate their unique energy source if possible.

[@dutchnamekian256]

Even still they could still explode because of the energy surge maybe they can start with x3 training to x20 but if the start with x20 they would destroy their body

[@AnonymousSaiyan]

@@darkscot1338 according to tHe AnImE they have unlimited ki in Super

[@AnonymousSaiyan]

Luis Suazo they were humans who were modified into cyborg androids they’re not machines entirely. Adding such concepts that are realistic is too in depth of an analysis with your own personal head canon, this is an anime, it’s not real. When they created these characters and these stories they did not have these points attributed to them.

[@evanvinet8773]

good to see you back masako

[@alluringming]

I think for non-super saiyans I think kaioken would b best. I always thought earthlings could master and possibly perfect the technique, I mean people forget the earthlings are martial art prodigies and we're able to master techniques much faster than their own masters. If given the chance I do believe the earthlings and even piccolo could take kaioken further than goku could. Also here some heat if scenarios lol 1. What if gohan and videl were the main focus of Dbz and videl was on Roshi island at the time raditz came to earth andshowing to b e natural prodigy. 2. What if zangya was good. 3. What if puar potential was unlocked and what if she trained like goku and others. How far could she push her shapeshifting abilities

[@alluringming]

Also what if universe 6 had earthlings instead of saiyans who used kaioken or kai Ken like technique that rivaled super saiyan and super saiyan blue?

[@devastatheseeker9967]

You know what people also forget about earthlings? They slapped the ginyu force easily when vegeta struggled

[@alluringming]

@Morbid Angel is better than Death I know, but because all his voice actors ar female and some of the English dub had refed him as a her or she. So I view puar as female

[@alluringming]

​@@devastatheseeker9967 that was filler but I consider it canon, besides when earthling finished training from kami they became a lot stronger than goku when he received training from him. So I think makes sense while training under king kai they became stronger than goku after he trained with king kai. If earthlings trained with goku during the three years or even had the gravity chamber they may be on par with saiyans. In the bojack movie base form trunks was even with tien and he had to change into super saiyan to beat tien. Now if a base humans with enough training be on par with base saiyan then if they learn, perfect, and master kaioken they could become on par with super saiyans.

[@devastatheseeker9967]

@@alluringming it isn't filler though. It was a cononical episode that fits in through fthe frieza saga. Seriously what the hell do people even classify as filler?

[@DekklinOfDeath]

Sounds like the start of a new What If series that would be awesome to see. Oh I could see having fun with that one.

[@AlfredFJones1776]

Now I’m thinking about how broken of a character Ghost Rider would be if he knew Kaioken. Due to GR not having the strain limitations that normal people have, he could stack Kaioken up past 100 and beyond if he had to.

[@JackTheDarkVampirePrince154]

Ghost rider would be unstoppable lol His body is unfathomed by physical restraints

[@themanwiththeplan1401]

@@JackTheDarkVampirePrince154 just pour water on him :D

[@JackTheDarkVampirePrince154]

@@themanwiththeplan1401 lol the hellfire wouldn't be phased Although piccolo would have been op with the kaioken and probably would have been the strongest non fused character up until super

[@themanwiththeplan1401]

@@JackTheDarkVampirePrince154 I think gohan would be stronger with ss2 in cell saga. This is because kaioken only last for a few seconds, and even less at high levels. Goku was using it for split seconds at a time with freeza and that was at 20x. In the time skip picollo could actually become stronger cause 7 years is a good amount of time to practice.

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

Another way to get the rest of the cast back on board and in an interesting creative way would be to have them train in different ways to get different forms that suits their character: Tien and Piccolo learn the Kaioken (the risk reward type fighters) Krillin and Roshi pursue Ultra Instinct (the wise enlightened fighters) Yamcha and Yajirobe get their Potential unleashed (The lazy under achiever fighters)

[@matthiasthemagician6803]

Masako: Could Kaio-Ken be better Super Saiyan ? Toriyama and Toyotarou: Nope

[@alpolacci]

I don't remember where I read it, but the most convincing explanation of Kaioken was that it basically is an application of the Genkidama technique. The first question that comes to mind about the Kaioken is "where does the power come from?". Fact is, it really works as a contained Spirit Bomb (hence why king Kai teaches both techniques): instead of gathering and compressing the energy of the environment in a huge single blast, with the Kaioken the user becomes a conduit for that energy, thus becoming vessel of a power much bigger than his own. The catch is that your body is not used to that kind of huge power, so you must be extremely focused (and pain resistant) to avoid the destruction of your own flesh by the environmental energy.

[@nedcurfman3486]

I misread the title as “Kakyoin: better than a Super Saiyan” and was really down for that hot take. Darn.

[@tobyclain9467]

So Kaio-Ken x20 Emerald Splash?

[@galarstar052]

20 x kaioken is nothing compared to the 20 meter emerald splash.

[@leonardovergara5620]

Broly's rage attack is literally the Emerald Splash.

[@matthewbreytenbach4483]

Great video! As for the technique being called a "fist", iron shirt and iron palm are both considered martial techniques and both are methods for enhancing a persons abilities for combat.

[@prachetasnayse9709]

I feel like Kaioken is broken on a Namekian. What if boosts their regeneration? xD

[@supereststinger]

imagine if cell got it

[@mark04anthony]

The_Stinger_0113 Cell should technically have it. Gero was monitoring Goku during the Saiyan Saga after all...

[@LloydTheZephyrian]

@@mark04anthony There are 2 reasons Gero may have not taken it. Either Gero didn't think it was worth the risk (perhaps the androids could hurt themselves if they used it because their bodies couldn't handle it despite their infinite energy engines), or Cell *does* have it, but Cell doesn't think it's worth burning through his energy during the Cell Games.

[@businessproyects2615]

Not on most namekians, Piccolo is a legend, he is two people the nameless namekian, a literal legend plus Nail a prodigy, he was overkill from the begining, there's a point in which he will probably reach Jiren's level, the guy won't get old easily and keeps on getting stronger.

[@Zerum69]

Getting to Kaio-ken x50 takes years and years of constant training, but Majin Buu could do it relatively easy in a few weeks tops since he got that magical understanding of ki, fighting and that perfect regeneration in the rare case he messed up

[@gegor41311]

I'm Early! Gotta make a joke : Kaio-what? Vs The Super Muffin

[@johnny1086]

Kaio-ken... times THREE AND A HALF

[@Robinator1103]

Is it taking place in the Hyperbolic Lion Tamer?

[@devildavin]

when you were talking about how people perceive the color red, i read an article a while back that was saying that people see the color red and we do have a reaction to it, say if you were in a fight and your opponet wears red, you might on a subconcious level be more intimidated but in the reverse if your wearing red your opponet may be indimidated by you and you would feel more confident

[@BrotherRoga]

If Piccolo did learn Kaioken... Would he not even bother fusing with Kami? Hmmst.

[@AJVulpes]

Years ago, I made a half saiyan character fro a forum rp thing. I had planned that she wouldn't have been able to go super saiyan, but somehow learned the kaioken technique. As time progressed and I developed the character a little more, it Kinda became a part of her identity as a character. Was fun time with that character too.

[@ziongamer6905]

Imo? Kaioken, I’m certain that if trained, our heroes could handle excruciatingly high levels casually.

[@supereststinger]

dbs goku could prob handle kaioken x1000 by itself since he can handle: ssjbkkx10, ssjbkkx20, ui omen, and mui without instantly dying

[@oflameo8927]

megakaioken?

[@ziongamer6905]

@@supereststinger Word. I wouldn’t be surprised if the same could apply to the others. Even if Goku was holding back against him, Krillen could so go Kaioken x500 at LEAST

[@ziongamer6905]

@@oflameo8927 If it was a final fantasy spell it’d be like Kaiokeraga

[@ziongamer6905]

@JBcoolbreez My idea was more like if Krillin had Kaioken from the Saiyan saga and had been training it nonstop, you know to get his body accustomed over time. Of course if he got it right now? He’d be single digits, probably strain himself to times 20 since he is around super saiyan Namek Goku level now I’d believe.

[@gabr.7878]

I'm glad KaioKen is finally getting some love, it is like my favorite thing in dragon ball, and with if my OG favorite character Piccolo learned it, oh my ...

[@supereststinger]

Funny thing is, i created a villain to go against my oc that mainly uses kaioken! Heres how he works: He managed to spy on the kais and finds out how to use the kaioken technique and the healing technique the kais use. Hes a smart villain so he focuses on mastering the healing technique to the point where it prevents him from aging. So for the next 453 years he keeps enhancing the healing technique to the point where he can stack it on kaioken, preventing no stamina drain. He eventually trains the healing technique enough to the point where he can do kaioken x10000-100000 with little to no drain what so ever. To put it in simple terms, hes an actually useful sakura from naruto. ONE QUICK NOTE: My oc isnt insanely busted, he only has ssj, ssj2, and ssj4. So for my villain and my oc to be equal, my villain doesnt have a high base power AT ALL, his power comes from the kaioken. If my villain was in base form against my oc, it wouldnt even take ssj in order to take him down.

[@oflameo8927]

Give your villain the ki blade too because it would be awesome.

[@supereststinger]

@@oflameo8927 well since healing and kaioken take a lot of ki control he would most likely have one

[@supereststinger]

Luis Suazo besides motives yes, don’t really know his motives yet

[@greyborg3846]

This is all I could ever want from Dragonball would be for the non-saiyan Z Fighters to all learn Kaioken. Even if their powers were still much lower it would at least decrease the gap. My greatest hope is to see Piccolo and Krillin be useful again.

[@AlfredFJones1776]

I like Super Saiyan better but what’s cool about Kaioken is that anyone can learn it. I’d love to see the Androids learn it so they can become much more powerful.

[@itsRhodi]

Ooh! Interesting! Since the andriods have 'infinite energy,' do you think they'd be able to push incredibly high levels of Kaio-ken for extremely long periods? Hell, that's how they could've gotten 17 and 18 to be on par with Goku during the ToP. Goku would've just taught them the Kaio-ken.

[@پوریاصحبتزاده-ب3ب]

they can't,Kaioken raises your Ki and androids don't have that energy yes Ki no.

[@darkscot1338]

The androids are able to mimic ki so it wouldn't be unfathomable to think they would be able to alter their energy in a similar way.

[@پوریاصحبتزاده-ب3ب]

@@darkscot1338 That's.......a pretty good point actually,good job.

[@themagicalonionfairy7455]

well according to goku it multiplies his strength speed and attack power not his ki@@پوریاصحبتزاده-ب3ب

[@brianshull879]

Nice video dude :) loved it. Would be interesting to hear how kaioken interacts with zenkai boosts.

[@technomorphtv5834]

Those dislikes prove that people are jealous of Masako's super saiyan swagger

[@VaeVictus17]

Absolutely agreed. Kaioken deserves more room to grow and learn.

[@TheWarmachine375]

2:18 I don't know who is that guy but he looks so unimpressive and uninteresting.

[@darkscot1338]

I don't know what this "Wang-Tang" is but its sounds just like Raditz.

[@JustaGuy_Gaming]

I do believe the draw back is one of the better sides of Kaio Ken. It seemingly damages the users body as they lose control of the technique and try for a higher level than they can manage. Tearing muscles, breaking bones, possibly more if you go really crazy. With normal users it's obviously bad but with Sayians it only makes them stronger. The harder the training, the more their life is on the line the more their boost kicks in. So assuming a Sayian had a quick means to heal up after a failed attempt at Kaio Ken be it Senzu beans, healing pods or Dende they could rapidly increase their base power with every failed attempt. Which in itself is a massive gain over Super Sayain as after a while they become super reliant on the transformation. While in theory this growth to their base form with Kaio Ken could make base form Goku strong enough to contest with SSJ forms of others.

[@tobyclain9467]

I'm assuming you've watched Hyourinjutsu's SSJ4 Goku Black vs. SSG Evolution Vegeta?

[@JustaGuy_Gaming]

@JBcoolbreez I also wouldn't be surprised if the strain increased with your power level as well. Doing x2 is probably a lot easier if your base power level is say 100. But if your base power is 1k it's tend times more energy to be compressing and working with. Which is why I really don't think insane multipliers are really going to happen with Kaio Ken. Instead your base power would have to slowly increase to make much sense, which is why Saiyains would benefit far more than a human.

[@adroushan69]

Find someone who doesn't know about the forms? I'm sorry I don't think I can find a unicorn

[@mythicalthings1796]

Thank you for that thumbnail and that bit at the end!! I was discussing this before but Piccolo should have learned the Kaioken! He would be the perfect one to do it with his regeneration! I'm sure muscle strain would be totally easy to regen or just straight up ignore! He could have beat second form Frieza easily!

[@leytonnc1047]

The colour yellow means coward or mocking ness hense y scorpion( from mortal kombat) to mock sub zero and call him a coward

[@leytonnc1047]

Razgriz the Mandalorian it means many things I guess

[@ShadowPicturesJay]

That's actually a fascinating What If idea. What if the super saiyan tranformation and its variations didn't exist? However, other transformations like Mystic, Kaioken, God Ki all exist.

[@dr.d4025]

Kaio what?

[@CoolJ4zz]

Gotta respect the DBZA references

[@Darkman9000]

I'd say that once we got to Super Saiyan 2, the transformation's lightning really did help convey that it was something quite formidable, whereas the original transformation doesn't have much going for it other than the scene and the character who is transforming. Had the original form come with the lightning and sparks, I think that might have helped it stand out just as much as the Kaioken. Granted, that still leaves the issue of non-saiyans not having their own super forms that aren't a power up like the Kaioken, Potential unleashed, or Ultra Instinct. But it does bring to mind a question about what the Super Saiyan transformation truly is, especially after Freeza managed to create a mock imitation of it with Golden form. Like, is it perhaps possible that a kind of mutation or evolution can be induced within certain beings if they push themselves hard enough? And that it's just been a simpler affair for those of Saiyan or Freeza-race lineage due to their species. Maybe there could be Super Humans if the right conditions are met.

[@puggo3938]

kiao what?

[@TheWarmachine375]

Kiao? KAI-O-KEN!

[@samuraibeatzz]

I always liked that Goku came to embrace his Saiyan name and heritage. To me that shown a growth of character.

[@twojonzt.v.6865]

Kio-piccolo would be amazingly badass. Why was this never a thing?

[@mittensfastpaw]

I like the more versatile power for each situation over the one and yellow done.

[@krystaLuvin]

That explanation of Kaioken sounds exactly like reinforcement in Fate Series. Reinforcement is pouring energy (in this case Mana/Prana) into all the small imperfections in something, like the cells of a person's body or around the molecules holding a lightbulb together, increasing effectiveness and durability. You can make glass unbreakable for a short time and in the case of a human's body increases the performance of a person's organs and muscles as well as their durability but if you overload your body, or the lightbulb, they explode. Basically there's a drawback to using it if not careful. It operates on some of the same principles which is kinda cool.

[@montecristosmith2343]

Love that you referenced Power Stone. Wang-Tang also had a power pole and a spirit bomb esque finisher I believe. His moveset was one big love letter to DB and Journey to the West.

[@pmgvictor4625]

Even when I think of yellow or see it, it does make me feel for energetic or happy; but when I see the "Super Sayian" and see it's Golden Yellow color I am reminded by frustration, anger, and power that wants to make change for the better. I think what makes Super Saiyan so impactful to me is that they gave the Color a New meaning, when you see/think about the associated color you think of that feeling. Super Saiyan made it's own feeling into the Golden Yellow color. I think, culturally impacting a new meaning into something is quite powerful indeed. This is just my view and opinion though.

[@kitsunesden8085]

Me: Kaio-sama, please teach me the Kaiodez! Kaio-sama: Sure, but you first have to make me lau... "Kaiodez"? Me: *KAIODEZ NUTS*

[@Parto5]

With Naruto, I always thought that Eight Gates was a great analogy to Kaioken - it even makes its user red. I didn't think so about Choji's technique until now.

[@kinganarkzie]

I'm hoping Piccolo will become a God of Destruction apprentice in future episodes but more Kaioken in the series would be cool.

[@SSB_Master_Hand]

*The easy combo: Immortality + Kaioken* Gather the Dragon Balls, doesn't matter which set, and wish for immortality. If the set you're using has another wish available, use it to bump up that new healing factor of yours to instantaneous flawless regeneration. Next, learn the Kaioken. With that, congratulations, you're a nigh-unkillable fighter that, with the Kaioken, can grow immensely powerful! The only reason I say "nigh-unkillable" is because of God of Destruction can use Hakai and the Omni King can just erase you with a squeeze of his hand. Aside from those two (and maybe the angels), the only thing you have to worry about is being sealed away.

[@_.d.st06]

YOU SHOULD MAKE A WHAT IF WITHOUT NO SUPER SAYIAN! :o that would be so cool :) also I love your videos :D

[@Milennin]

I'd think Tienshinhan would do well with the Kaio Ken as well, since he's already been training his body to handle the Kikoho for so long. He's got the experience with techniques that are damaging to his own body.

[@TheRealMichelozzo]

I love Kaioken simply because of the kickback to it. The fact that it does have a cost adds to the drama and tension of using it. It makes it more special than just basically a buff before a raid - sure, Super Saiyan and its many variants are pretty damn cool as far as 'just buffs' go, but Kaioken has that bit of edge to it to make it interesting. Coming from someone who is very heavy into video games, I love a similar power at a cost mechanic in games too which likely spawns / reinforces my love of Kaioken as it is very similar. Plus we all know we want to scream the name of the technique, confuse the hell out of an opponent by doing so, and crash into them so hard they go soaring before they even know what's up.

[@birdup2141]

When I played sonic I really loved super sonic because it seemed inspired from dragon ball while also still seeming like it’s own thing despite looking very similar, when you play as super sonic you honestly forget sometimes it was dragon ball inspired because it was executed pretty well and it wasn’t shoehorned in as much as humanly possible usually only being reserved for final bosses or completion rewards and sometimes not even being in the game which made it feel special because you’d get those dragon ball transformation moments

[@redhiney6666]

i imagine an advanced level user as being able to turn it on and off again in the time it takes to throw a punch. It has so much wiggle room as a concept

[@Odinfang]

I love them both and if goku got the time in to master them both specifically, super kaioken, he’d be a powerhouse before god ki could have been a thing. However, your very correct in also saying piccolo kaioken would be terrifying in its own right. That’s a special beam cannon I desperately want to see that’s got that kaioken spice lol

[@nonamegiven202]

yeah do I do love Kaioken more as it's more of an technique, an nice double edge risk/reward aspect to it and where timing is important.

[@jahjahstar7641]

I agree that the other Z-Fighters who doesn't have any transformation should learn it to see how far they can go and decrease the power gap.

[@creeperdudeguy]

Created a 'Perfected Kaioken' for a Frost Demon I wrote called Broadsword, basically allowing him to use stupid levels of Kaioken and having the heat and external damage neutralised by a God 5th form called 'Winter God' that generated intense cold across his body, later learning how to manipulate the frozen temperatures to cancel out the burning of Kaioken Also spent large amounts of time in lower levels of kaioken to make it more efficient and toughen him against its adverse affects to raise his base level of Kaioken for the increases his ceiling Along with other techniques as Dimension edge,( a form of Sauzer Blade so intense and energy dense it can cut space similar to Buu's scream) Winter God (Frost Demon equivalent of Super Saiyan God) a Broadsword that absorbs Magic, all the overpowered kinda stuff

[@quietpianoguy]

This video actually got me thinking, we definitely know Dr. Gero's drones were still around during the Vegeta fight (Cell even used the Galick Gun in his second form against Super Vegeta). And it's not like Cell has rage-induced transformations like Super Saiyan; every Android/Cyborg absorption just increased his base power I'm assuming. And he presumably got a Zenkai boost after self-destructing and regenerating - on that note, he also has Piccolo's ability to regenerate. Just imagine what Cell would've been able to do had he used the Kaioken...

[@Godoflegos]

With the notion that the energy gets denser with each level, I like the idea that EVENTUALLY it would become so dense that it would implode on itself. Having a hard limit prevents the "Schoolyard Argument" effect. "You've got x100? WELL I'VE GOT xINFINITY".