Why do higher ranks defend much farther back? | OW2 Reddit Questions #62

[@justchilling007]

Something I didn’t realize until recently is that if an echo copies you and you die, if you try and switch heroes while her copy is still up you can’t switch characters

[@w0lfrunn]

They did add that in ow2

[@sol9057]

That has been part of echos kit since release

[@w0lfrunn]

@sol9057 interesting, I remember reading in patchnotes , has it really been that long?

[@GingerHoax]

I absolutely hate not being able to swap out of it. Why? Not like she can copy again to the new hero you choose. It's odd, and could be game winning if you copy someone so they can't swap to go tracer to touch at the end of a round.

[@cremenbutter3831]

I think its just there to prevent bugs from occuring as i would assume overwatch is coded to pull from the duplicate target's refrence id and having any data changed in it could lead to issues

[@Mopman33]

KarQ can I just say thank you for always uploading the hot take/suggestion, ect videos at noon EST every day I watch them on my lunch break pretty much every day.

[@loogiemusmaximusoftides8540]

Winston is the best counter to Zarya cause you force her to use bubbles for her back line and then she has no mobility or survivability so your team can just collapse on her

[@SecretlyStarscream]

Doom into Zarya really isn't that bad... yeah she'll bubble your dives once in a while but she will almost always give you punch

[@RustyRants]

Yup, and you’re really good at baiting her bubbles. You arent as committed if you slam/punch in as a character like winston or dva, you can force the bubble and get out

[@mickeyboy90]

Im mostly a gm dva otp (i play others just best at dva). I usually wont have crazy issues against zar without other counterpicks. Counting 3 bubbles is usually great. As long as you don’t commit both missiles and boost you’ll be able to effectively do something while bubble is up.

[@amyzappa1436]

Yeah but the real counter to zarya is maulga with Kiri cleanse, uhh cuz RAHH HAAAHHHH

[@lukasg4807]

Y'all are crazy, idk why zarya would always charge you, she has a beam that can easily stop shooting, and she feels like the hardest tank counter to doom outside of hog if your team doesn't help with him.

[@RustyRants]

@@lukasg4807 zarya isnt usually the one charging you, but if you dont just brawl her, and get her bubbles out, then you can roll over her with your team. If she decides to bubble her teammates when you dive them, then you get out, and thats bubbles she doesnt have for herself. Now you can just roll over her with your team

[@dash4800]

The thing that annoys me is that people watch gm players talk about where to defend and think they should do that but they dont have anything remotely close to the skill required to pull it off. Ive literally never had a successful high ground or far back defensive hold in thousands of games. 1 of 2 things always happens. Either they juat walk the payload eight by while your team ineptly tries to shoot them, or they take all the angles you have given them tonattack and overwhelm the lower rank players who cant handle pressure.

[@charleshaines9715]

I feel the learning Doom thing. Usually enemies emediately pick Sombra and do nothing but hack me. Mute chat and you'll feel a lot better.

[@TheShawnMower]

Mured chat 16 months ago, game is tolerable

[@Anonymous-mx8sh]

“Winston can’t dive zarya’s team” silver issue lol

[@khele2k]

Nerd

[@Anonymous-mx8sh]

@@khele2k you play the game with me lil bro

[@Real_Nutella]

I actually was a doomfist main back in OW1 and my most played and highest ranked role in ranked was tank so the swap to OW2 doom tank was incredibly intuitive. However it is a very difficult PLAYSTYLE to master because you can't play him like you could as a DPS and you can't play him like other tanks. That paired with needing near perfect aim to really make solid plays and rank up makes him a seriously difficult tank to master. I am either playing the best game of my life or just feeding and getting tank diffed. If you are learning to play him, go play some QP first and even open queue where there is significantly less stress placed on you to perform well and carry your team. That is probably to best way to learn his mechanics while not being punished as much. Then you can go into role queue and learn matchups and how to use his hyper mobility around the enemy tank since it's only 1-2-2 roles. Good luck everyone

[@adamsimpson2041]

The problem with diving back line to make a tank like Zarya turn around so that your team can capitalize, is that in lower ranks, your team just wont. They won't see the opportunity and you will just end up in a 1v5.

[@paulopacheco7768]

Deal with zarya is pretty easy for me. I just ignore her or keep track of her bubbles to know when I have to stop shooting her. People complain because they only think on capitalizing kills instead of thinking of what to do

[@waterrr6332]

Yeah for me, Zarya gets ass blasted when the enemy team has more than 1 Hitscan. Her range is cheeks

[@TheShawnMower]

Forgot zarya exists

[@milamber319]

She can be a pain. But once you realise if you force her to use the bubbles on other people she has to play scared.

[@iceghost97]

I usually never end up playing against zarya on tank but she just gets deleted against my junkrat 🤣 After that first bubble is gone im LOCKING that bish. She rolls over tbh pretty fast afterwards. Which is funny bc i recently saw a video that said zar is a counter for junkrat lol. But any good rat player would know not to random spam, and instead focus aim the squishys or burst the zarya.

[@paulopacheco7768]

@iceghost97 Zarya can be a counter for loads of heros if you play smart or the enemy play dumb

[@soccerburn552]

KarQ is aware that he says cardiac arrest. I was beginning to think KarQ forgot the real name was saying cardiac arrest unironically.

[@nikica0710]

09:40 I was under the exact same impression a while ago, that games during the day were "easier". And I started to pay more attention to myself. Turns out I was playing differently on a day off when I was fresh compared to night sessions after a workday. I got tilted more often at night, and obviously that became worse the later I was playing.

[@AloneInTheDork]

Oh KarQ...Games are always easier earlier in the day, Friday evening and Saturday afternoon/evening are always the easiest time to rank up. Sunday must be the homework rush. 😂 I've been taking advantage of this forever. Somewhere around midnight MST it starts to shift to normal to hard games. Then at 4:00 a.m. it gets easy again.

[@JoshuaRAWRR]

Mauga's Cardiac Overdrive only provides 100% lifesteal and 40% DR to himself, it's 50% lifesteal and 20% DR for allies.

[@ReivecS]

The best way to learn doom is to just one trick him on an alt account. Don't change heroes to win games because you will mess up your MMR and make the doom games harder.

[@josewolf9884]

I don't think i've had much trouble to play against Zarya as Reinhardt. Both want to play at really close distances and it is actually fine to trade some shield health against high energy lasers, as the decay is quite fast. You can also disengage by charging back in case your barrier breaks or if one of your supports dies. The only instances were this stops working is by a) the enemy dps can do spam damage and decide to focus on your shield. Or b) your teammates have an addiction to shooting Zarya bubble no matter what.

[@lucasproposch3079]

I feel like rein has too much trouble pressuring zar when she uses both bubbles. Definitely works great up until that point but she’s gonna end up out sustaining and dpsing you as the fight goes on

[@blaine4754]

@@lucasproposch3079if that happens then the fight was already lost. Zarya and sigma are my favorite tanks to see as a rein otp. Just the easiest games. I literally dial it back a little to make sure they stay on that hero

[@headecas]

In regards to the first question, lower ranks miss more shots, the farther away yhe harder the shots are, so for them it may be optimal to defend closer since in that case they can actually fight instead of giving the enemy team space for free

[@CypherOfSolace]

10pm is when real gamer hours start, only serious players are up late. dads are in bed for work, kids are in bed for school, normies are burnt out already.

[@daabearz123]

I've noticed people play with friends at night, which means one of them will probably be a lot better than the other person, but they always play together so they play at the same rank. Not saying this isn't always the case, but I have definitely noticed it many times. Because of this if that person isn't playing at their top level, you are probably going to lose. Or the worst case scenario when they both play support and look out for each other more than the rest of the team; RIP tank.

[@ducasse8473]

The fact that so little people are truly acknowledging the first question is wild. That's like 1 EXTREMELY easy way to improve the quality of lower ranked games immediately.

[@AbsoluteApril]

Always such great tips, enjoying this series, thanks KarQ!

[@skrrrtsusman3450]

dude i hate mauga, he should not out last a bastion turret form while also shredding bastion turret form, you literally cannot play if he chooses to suicide bomb you off respawn unless you have like two people backing you up

[@The_Dejected_King]

Junker Queen does take some finess against Zarya, but it's so satisfying when you track you bubbles well and just bully her. I've mained Zarya so I kinda have her timing down.

[@Potato_Tomato-od2lz]

Question: why do people call stuns and hinders CCs? Most stuns javelin, rock, flashbang, etc are single target.

[@michaelminnick-chavez]

Its just nomenclature. Crowd Control is the umbrella term for anything that stops you from playing the game, like a stun, root, or blind. Regardless of whether it's single target or not.

[@shawnskyeviews]

Everyone talking about widow needs a nerf but NO ONE wants to go a dive tank, or a flanker, or a support that can heal while being in cover. If widow was THAT good with ZERO counter play like yall claim the pros would be using her. If widow gets a nerf then all those widows will switch to Ashe and you all will complain about Ashe. Who is even HARDER to kill than widow and has a more dangerous ult that’s going to pop up every two seconds.

[@ItsASleepySheepy]

Adding "Mauga's Hahas" to my vocabulary immediately thank you Mr. KarQ

[@MatI-cc6ld]

Your zarya rant just makes me want 6v6 back

[@brelandgt]

poor doom player. i agree. just play him regardless of what anyone says and try to have fun. dont get too hung up on your kills and try to focus on cycling cooldowns while disrupting the team. the kills will come with confidence. limit test and slowly pull back. also most people will swap to "counters" for doom and just throw cooldowns at you without waiting for the right moment to actually punish you so you should punish that. so many times people will switch to sombra just to hack me randomly and do nothing. had they waited for me to block i would be in trouble.

[@johnsaunders7257]

Widow needs a nerf, i said what i said 🤷‍♂️

[@N3kur0_]

Based individual

[@josephbrown6623]

Coldest take this patch

[@oksobasicallyimmonky]

ur so brave

[@EDsHeem]

john saunders has spoken

[@mickeyboy90]

Character with 0 counterplay needs a nerf who could have guessed

[@charleshaines9715]

I have success with Sigma against Zarya. I play away from her and shield her off from heals depending on enemy supports. Rocking an opponent may force her to use her bubbles to save them. Or jumpy players can be goaded into using bubble if you aim rock at them.

[@ubacow7109]

Imo holding further up is if u wanna win, holding further back is if you know someone on your team is gonna suck or ur just tryna goof around

[@Bodgie7878]

There are just optimal spots to defend from my guy, top 500's holding Circuit Royale bridge aren't goofing around

[@ThatBoiDinky]

Overwatch doesnt lean into the hero part of their hero shooter enough IMO, give heros more a unique passive (make 2 per character to change out every now and again to shake the meta) give Cass a small shield on Elim, give Sombra CD reduction on killing a Virus infected target, Give mercy a small healing boost when arriving at a guardian angel target, let rein get movement speed when his shield is gone, give ana an increase in healing/damage if her last shot was used for the opposite. GIVE PASSIVES! ( these were not balanced suggestions, just something to get the ball rolling)

[@adsiz67983]

If map geometry can be abused, I rather play Dva against Zarya rather than force outbrawl her. Because Zarya's effectiveness drops sooo much if she has to split bubble cooldowns, attention and positioning between peel and agression. And it's easy to bait cooldowns if high ground can be abused as Dva, winston, doom etc.

[@Dovakinskywalker]

I respect that guy for not playing mauga. He is the worst thing that has happened to this game since brig.

[@TheShawnMower]

Early brig was insane

[@Bad3abdul]

i hope people like you go and play marvel rivals

[@samhamwich518]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a plat team hold the corner on Circuit first

[@ltsReallyHim]

Yea ur bad

[@divine1647]

11:01 “unemployed people who are tilted”💀💀

[@Charlie.G506]

4:17 funny how OPP doesn't mention ram...

[@user-hv6jk9mb0k]

Suggestion: Widow should charge her shot only when she saw an enemy and after a few seconds it should decrease. It will help against a widow who just wait until some squishy will pick out and earn insta kill

[@sol9057]

I mean snipers are supposed to hold angles

[@Hibiki_Io]

That how hawk eye works in marvel rivals lol

[@panini15]

11:40 unc karq

[@skrrrtsusman3450]

11:20 my psyche is always demolished

[@motokoko8045]

brigitte could totally have a light or LED component on her armor that shows the number of repair packs that she has. for a visual think of the three blue lights on fortnite V-Bucks thinking about it so many more heroes could use a system like zarya... for example dva could get two light bars on the back of her mech that show how much defense matrix is left

[@moleedaboi]

5:45 Relatable. It's worse for wrecking ball imo (It's all relative) whenever you try to learn a different hero, there's always assholes I quickplay talking shit. Like, yeah I'm playing qp because I'm bad, at ball deal with it.

[@horsesteam9173]

Idk what it is with Zarya but i have a much better time headshotting her than literally any other hero. My theory is many Zarya players tend to get out of position more, because they basically have two get out of jail free cards. Either that or she has a flippin ginormous forehead

[@CatiosPizza]

4:46 apparently the Reddit guy never heard of rein.

[@Hsotnas80]

Here are some stats from overbuff. DPS win rate on Console in competitive for last 3 months Out of 18 dps characters, on win rate widow ranks as follows GM - 6th Master - 14th Diamond - 11th Platinum - 14th Gold - 9th Silver - 13th Bronze - 14th If she was dominating and good- one would expect her to be higher. IMO it is just those mouse n keyboard masters and gms who are oppressive

[@TR-ju5re]

Something worth noting. Widow's good maps frequently have both teams with a widow. I would argue that mirror is one of the most common in dps category. So for every win there is often a corresponding loss. The win rate without a mirror would be very interesting. This is also the kiri arguement, her win rate is not good but her kit is loaded and is very frustrating to play against at times (I don't think she's at widows level personally)

[@Bad3abdul]

@@TR-ju5re 😂 😂

[@TR-ju5re]

@@Bad3abdul 🤣🤣

[@BunnyNinja23]

KarQ, doing any Marvel Rivals things in the upcoming week?

[@ramoziurx]

2:48 What counters zarya? teamwork lol

[@CometdownCat]

10:53 did kar key just associate titling with employment status? Plus don’t forget about us old folks who are mooching off the government dime and can play any hour….

[@Jaycielantern]

Biggest reason games are harder at night is definitely the fact you're tired. best advice i ever got for competitive gaming was from purplecliffe about getting 8 hours of sleep.

[@benlink202forever]

Bro said FOV when he meant LOD

[@Minisynapse]

Ironically, always attributing people's potentially legitimate observations with confirmation bias is itself a form of confirmation bias. The matchmaker is not perfect. It has hickups and systematic deviations from "perfection" depending on many factors.

[@NOVRE]

Fellow dutchie with weird alpha strats hell yea (disgusting pinkman tho)

[@joepaige8327]

I’ve never been this early, 50 SECONDS 😳 this feels weird

[@liamd3484]

Okay? You want a lollypop or something?

[@RefugeeKLicious]

Isn’t Reinhardt the Zarya counter? Or am I smoking crack?

[@claytonfry6586]

I agree, swing to force bubble shield up to not give energy. Long distance charge where bubble wears off before the pin damage hits

[@ReivecS]

The zarya question sounds like a bronze player. Calls the heroes champions so probably an apex player and playing OW like one, and then mentions JQ has 400 hp which is closer to open queue hp setting. I have no issues playing winston or dva into Zarya and I am a lowly plat player.

[@tylerbacoka4248]

Karq your sheet is so boosted if you don't notice how bad they mid day is, delusional.

[@NATIVE1605]

2:42 optuahvoid

[@cactus3051]

Ive noticed that when i play Winston he is unplayable, he dies so quick since he needs to get so close. Does anyone else have this issue or am i bad at the game? I feel like when the enemies team goes Winston it works for them

[@___Alina___24]

It entirely depends on your supports and whether or not they can heal you. Like are you going out of their line of sight?

[@Bad3abdul]

def bad

[@jaymolinski4789]

I am bad at this character too, but he's objectively a good character(always been meta in Asia since Overwatch 2). He just can't carry a game by himself because he can't ever get a solo kill against enemies that aren't bronze. Timing is very important.

[@Bodgie7878]

You really have to squeeze everything you can out of Winston, try meleeing just before you land on someone, the melee does 40hp, followed by the 50 from slam and then you can immediately follow up by zapping them, don't just sit in your bubble when you use it, weave in and out the same way you'd use a Sym ult, don't be afraid to jump out without a kill, if you've gotten damage that's still value and ult charge, and ultimately your life as tank is often the most important thing to consider

[@Bad3abdul]

@@jaymolinski4789 well said like Winston's been S tier for a long time he just almost always thrives on timed engagements, team follow up and squeezing out every boy if damage you can before engaging like whilst you are jumping you cab charge the secondary fire+ a melee after landing you could deal a solid amount of damage

[@jarredwheat7135]

Fix Sombra fix widow, or if your in metal ranks just switch Sombra she's still a machine that turns widows into junkrats

[@Under_Waters]

Just and idea, but what jf cassidy had no falloff on headshots

[@ltsReallyHim]

Would be insanely broken

[@Under_Waters]

@ltsReallyHim maybe just reduced falloff on headshots then? I know he doesn't need it, but the falloff on Cass just feels bad

[@ltsReallyHim]

@ his purpose is close to medium range and killing dives. He fills that role well. We have other heroes for the longer ranges. Hes fine

[@Under_Waters]

@ltsReallyHim no shid, I feel like I'm tickling the enemy when I'm out of that short range and that feels horrible. And none of this would change overall damage just change the falloff on headshots from whatever it is to something a little farther

[@ltsReallyHim]

@ no your idea sucks

[@tylerbacoka4248]

Games are harder at night, because the real actual team players come out. Believe it or not in a 5on5 game teamwork is pretty huge....solo warriors all day....zzzzzz

[@khele2k]

Games are sweatier at night because there's more "hardcore" aka nerds with no lives are the only ones playing. Normal kids/young adults with lives play sports in the evenings; they hang out with friends face to face and they have girlfriends. Adults take their kids to sports or go out and do fun things. Normal humans will play a bit during the day or in the afternoon before their active evenings start. Basement dwellers play all day everyday, but they're the only ones playing late nights so that's who you're playing against. They don't have lives outside of their preferred video game so while normies are out leading active lives they're in Mom's basement getting carpal tunnel.

[@8lackyj]

Juno mauga meta is so damn terrible. I hate watching and playing in it, actually brain dead

[@timscheuermann2554]

dva eats mauga

[@snoopystock6928]

Brother, confirmation bias? Even in a game like cod theres a clear difference in players at night and day. Same with overwatch. Instead of always victim blaming can we actually use our brain?

[@arutemisemtrai9769]

2:48 Thank you for reminding people this is a team game, This 1v1 mindset a lot of players have is the most stupid thing.

[@Gabytron]

RE: Harder games at night: By that reasoning, wouldn't you get harder games during the day because the unemployed sweats are the ones playing? Re: Understanding Mercy: I've literally had to remind my tanks that they adjusted healing received with DPS passive and ask them to use more map cover and that they really just can't stand out in the open and just tank damage anymore.

[@alext8060]

It isn't reasoning, it's an emotional response. Their brain is playing a trick on them as part of our natural pattern recognition.

[@mickeyboy90]

100% there are way more smurfs later on in the night. Idk if on other servers but for sure on mine. Or maybe im scitz who knows

[@alext8060]

@mickeyboy90 you're not crazy! Confirmation bias is a natural part of human psychology. We evolved to have to it as part of our pattern recognition capabilities. It actually protects us mentally and socially, but it does cause silly things like thinking games at night at significantly harder or thinking seeing a black cat is bad luck. Superstitions are very normal.

[@Gabytron]

I encounter the drunks and potheads at night, maybe that's why games are so ass

[@WhatIsTheMeta]

We love Mauga.

[@Lusive3]

Sup karq

[@davidcasazza2961]

Gg

[@santolini]

first

[@MyCommentsRMaturelol]

The comments on the first post were more informative tbh

[@1206mattdillon]

Second