Tarot Card Art Drama With TWO 40 Page Exposé Documents

Рет қаралды 22,121

Күн бұрын

Honestly this entire situation was just so messy :/ What are your thoughts on this whole controversy? :o
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Пікірлер: 78

@bakawaki 15 күн бұрын

Reasons to avoid getting into drama: You have to write a 40+ page essay.

@THATAroSpecWallet 15 күн бұрын

Just use a bigger font!

@Kyrmana 15 күн бұрын

@@THATAroSpecWalletAnd double spaces!

@yuki97kira 15 күн бұрын

Ok but consider...writing with spite

@M1kas..B0n3s 14 күн бұрын

Sounds like school 🎀

@ayajade6683 15 күн бұрын

Artist never get paid on projects like this expecting to get paid on a fan project is crazy

@tarotsushima3332 15 күн бұрын

Yeah unless it was stated to be a paid project, project collabs like zines and the like are usually non profit. The only thing I'd give was for the organizer to be clearer about that next time but otherwise this whole drama seems like a nothingburger with the person who started it all not really looking great at the end.

@triggerfairy4070 15 күн бұрын

Depends on the deal

@katliente 15 күн бұрын

that's very true! i've had friends that made zines and i've made art for them and it's all been volunteer :) but there is a debate on IF it does profit a substantial sum, as to whether the artists should get some financial benefit too :o

@HyattHyatt3179 3 күн бұрын

@@katliente If there is profit I do think the artist should get some of it, after all a lot of people but it because of the art. Stuff like this should have been talked about before the project though

@SketchingPandaRen 15 күн бұрын

BTW The likely reason the Japanese artists don't want to be payed is copyright laws. Japan's copyright laws are harsher and that's why Nintendo is so DMCA heavy. That's why they mentioned that the project looked too official.

@mk_gamíng0609 14 күн бұрын

Yea and then it seems unfair if you pay the other artists not the Japanese artists

@mimilapin 14 күн бұрын

this is probably why the tarot project was so cheap in Japan, it was sold at cost maybe?

@mk_gamíng0609 14 күн бұрын

@@mimilapin Most likely

@Cam-lg6rl 15 күн бұрын

havent watched the full video but i want to point out that most fanproductions and zines are NON PROFIT. if they were claiming to pay artists that should have been a red flag from the beginning, never join a fanproject as large as this if you are only in it for money.

@noreingravity 4 сағат бұрын

i have a question cause im not that well versed in these things- but if the project makes huge amount of profit, what happens with that? does it usually get donated or does it usually stay in the pocket of the organizer?

@scarletsletter4466 15 күн бұрын

I was familiar with this & setting aside the pettiness- there’s a very sticky question about whether artists should be paid after they “volunteer” to do fan art (or other free art) for a project if that project ends up making money. The answer has to be “no.” Now I agree the ethical choice from the big picture would be to pay people, but when you’re actually in the project managers shoes, it gets so much more complicated. There are important legal & banking reasons you can’t just send money to people/ accounts if you haven’t formally “hired” or contracted them for a job. For example, when you hire someone you do some due diligence to figure out who they are & whether you can legally pay them, & how. They expect to be paid & know how to get the money & pay taxes. With volunteers, not so much. This scenario sounds like they’re just complaining about PayPal fees, but it’s actually way more complex than that. You can end up creating tax consequences for people who didn’t want to get paid in the first place. Plus, what do you think happens to your PayPal if you suddenly start sending money overseas to lots of payees? It gets investigated/ temporarily frozen. Furthermore, WHO do you pay? If you’ve ever worked with subcontractors esp in Asia you know you can’t just send $ to any account. The US govt has sanctions on some places & money laundering concerns with other places. I’ve had situations where my studio’s whole bank account got frozen while the payees were investigated. Even from a local law standpoint, ideally you’d want to know the payee is old enough & otherwise legally able to work in their country & not in a forced-labor situation (sweatshop/ indentured). These might sound like far-fetched concerns but I promise they’re not. If work long enough in entertainment you realize that globalization has made our industry very complicated

@neondemons 15 күн бұрын

Oh my god. I read the title as “240 page” instead of two 40 page, and shocked myself.

@ABANDONINGACCOUNT123 15 күн бұрын

How does everyone always have 10000 page google docs- also EVER NOTICED HOW THIS IS ALWAYSON TWITTERR??

@tarotsushima3332 15 күн бұрын

Yeah like I get it if it's for situations where needing tons of concrete evidence is required which is often with serious allegations or callouts but people just be making 80+ page docs for anything nowadays. One of the reasons I don't put much stock in callout docs as well as how many of them get used maliciously to get people run offline with a big puff piece of nothing, sth so common when it comes to fandom drama.

@jojoslameerrand9305 15 күн бұрын

Its not about twitter, it was like this when tumblr was the artists hub, and when instagram was the artists hub, and way back when deviantArt was the artists hub- and deviantArt+tumblr didnt need google docs because long documents with images was a default post type. Every doc ive seen so far also has discord screenshots. Where all the artists are, communication -and muscommunication, happens especially when money is involved

@jojoslameerrand9305 15 күн бұрын

@@tarotsushima3332 long docs have been used in bad faith as long as i can remember. General rule of thumb is if its more than 10 pages it should be going to a lawyer or a beta reader, not the internet

@Sketchnificent 15 күн бұрын

I’m currently writing a 1 billion page google doc 📑 check back to this channel in 2034 🫵🏽🥸

@wheelsndealz 15 күн бұрын

wait, did someone misspeak? she said she wasn't gonna include taxes and shipping because that's not something she would pocket? what? you don't pocket taxes. that's a cost. it would drastically affect the profit calculations if you don't include the taxes paid and shipping costs.

@sweetroseneko 15 күн бұрын

If you volunteer to do free at then you don’t get paid…that’s like logic ._.

@spiderleamer5066 15 күн бұрын

This is so odd, normaly fan projects and zines are fully nonprofit and meant for either funraisers or artist collabs and any money does usually go towards funding future projects. This seems like a mass mix of a weird miscommunication mess up and also Japan copywriter laws are a lot harsher so paying an artist can quickly get you in a lawsuit or in general that's why fanprojects are often unpayed. Really seems like Momo just went into this blind expecting money without bothering to clarify.

@mk_gamíng0609 14 күн бұрын

The thing is , She had all the info , All she had to do was read . She is the only artist who has had any issues , the rest probably did read and accepted the terms since they are happy with them

@mk_gamíng0609 15 күн бұрын

More I learn the more i feel Momo is more in the wrong , it seems she was the only artist with issues , the rest of the artist seemed fine with it and as people have been saying when it comes to fan stuff like this its common for artist's not to seek monetary compensation especially with the Japanese artists. It honestly feels like Momo feels quite a bit of self-importance

@MakariAvalon 14 күн бұрын

Momo sitting on twitch exposing people's private dms on Twitter without their consent also doesn't make her look any better either :/

@mk_gamíng0609 14 күн бұрын

@@MakariAvalon Also If I am right, the Private DMS momo was talking about never even mentioned anyone's name (The ones where Gigi was talking about a artist not completing there art in time) So momo just assumed it was about her Luckily for her its turn out it was about her. Other people have come forward about her taking a long time to do commissions too

@telisia5168 12 күн бұрын

Here's my two cents from working in huge non-profit art projects especially in asia. If you're an artist and wants to be compensated when the non-profit artwork that you produced blows up, you HAVE to state it before starting the work, period. I have had artists requesting free copies of stuff from a non-profit project (this is not those cheap stuff btw, it's BJD parts that costs $1000 each, or custom-made cosplay clothes that have a very long waiting/production periods), yes, this is something we agreed on before the product is even made. You don't simply decide you want a piece of the non-profit pie when you didn't say anything in the beginning. This is often why people need to sign written contracts for miniscule things because people often back-track on their own statements. Momo is the one in the wrong here. If momo doesn't know how fan project works or wants to profit off of making art, then she shouldn't participate in non-profit fan projects. Yes, even those who keep profits to fund future projects are called non-profit 🤯

@mk_gamíng0609 12 күн бұрын

@@telisia5168 Cool info, Yea I think Momo is 100% in the wrong at this point Its also more evident when the info no how this project would work and compensation was laid out in a document that was easy to access, she was given that document and agreed to work on the project So either she did not read it ( The shes more dumb than malicious end) Or she did read it but felt like she deserved more ( The malicious end)

@ayajade6683 15 күн бұрын

Most of this is petty drama no one cares about it if it was bothering them so much they should've talked to a therapist not make a callout doc

@crystalprinceton9312 15 күн бұрын

Kamaniki/Gigi is a wonderful person and very passionate about other artists and Xenoblade. I definitely think there were a lot of misunderstandings and miscommunications. I don’t think Gigi expected Xeno Tarot to blow up in popularity like it did so they chose compensation with free copies of the decks+compendium and discount on wholesale, which is really nice to do. Hopefully there can be some monetary compensation for artists next time because I’m sure they will have a very successful next project

@MakkyMaks 15 күн бұрын

I think they handled it well for being new. Next time they will be better prepared!

@ayajade6683 15 күн бұрын

Artist never get paid on fan projects like this

@crystalprinceton9312 15 күн бұрын

@@ayajade6683 oh wow I didn’t know that! Still I think the original compensation was very generous and it seems like the other artists agreed to the terms, so maybe this was just a case of momo being salty or jealous and wanting more?

@ayajade6683 15 күн бұрын

@@crystalprinceton9312 it feels like Momo is mad over petty bs and trying hurt them by going see they're a scammer

@Beepbeepbeep12 8 күн бұрын

@@ayajade6683 ok but i think if the project blows up its fair to then offer atleast a little financial compensation to the artists because without them you wouldnt even have your project

@mallowtonmouse 15 күн бұрын

I guess there were a few valid points and some public pressure on the project owner to be transparent with the finances, but the rest seems like jealous friend bullshit

@MakkyMaks 15 күн бұрын

I haven’t watched the whole video but ngl I think Momo is the problem…it seems like a lot of the artists were in agreement on the terms😭 idk I’m so conufsed rn🤣

@MakkyMaks 15 күн бұрын

I feel bad for Kama tbh. Trying to have a conversation with someone with victim complex is useless, the conversation literally goes nowhere 🤣🤣

@Iwannarox 14 күн бұрын

Ok but like... 1000ish units IS a small project. And the artists participated without the expectation of getting paid but still got free books plus half price products to profit on. Even if she profited by thousands (thinking of the numbers, i doubt she really profited some insane amount), i don't really see the issue or why she should be pressured to start paying out a bunch of money as if her time and labour to get the products manufactured and shipped doesn't matter. She took on all the risk and momo wants to act like this was some evil money grab...

@SOSanimelose 14 күн бұрын

I think there needs to be a firm line between a community/fandom project vs. a for-profit project. This is obviously a community project, where it's super normal for the only compensation is a copy of what the project was making. Fandom projects are mostly, if not completely, on a volunteer basis. I've organized this kind of project and have participated as an artist as well.

@corvid_pest 15 күн бұрын

I'm so glad to have kat to read me all of these infos I wouldn't have read myself :'D

@katliente 15 күн бұрын

i gotchu xD

@alostkoi 15 күн бұрын

For someone who called people "professional twitter user", Momo should be the first to log out. What a petty attitude they have.

@zesty_n00dle83 13 күн бұрын

if money was not touched on when you agreed, always expect to not get paid or ask before signing up.

@plum6904 14 күн бұрын

Main issue is that a good part of it was personal stuff that should have been talked about in private. If it doesnt go smoothly then cease contact with each other.

@plum6904 14 күн бұрын

If I simply don't like how someone organizes their fan projects I just don't have to participate in it as an artist.

@whoahanant 7 күн бұрын

I mean Momo can keep crunching numbers all they want but these types of projects are typically all volunteer and free work. Additionally it causes serious problems to pay people for these because Japans copyright laws are REALLY strict. It's why the Japanese artists did not want to participate unless the project looked unofficial. Companies in Japan will strike down fan made stuff without any problems or care unlike other countries that have some leeway with fan content. Also no one else on the project seems to have any problems. Momo keeps saying they don't need payment but they're the only one upset with it all. "I'm standing up for artists" over and over agains but it doesn't really seem like any artists seem upset nor need you to stand for them so far here.

@thegryffindor1258 15 күн бұрын

What's the tldr?

@putz_june 15 күн бұрын

"too long, didn't read"

@thegryffindor1258 15 күн бұрын

@@putz_june no, ik that, I want to know the summary

@katliente 15 күн бұрын

gigi made a fan project tarot card deck for xenoblade, momo was an artist for it momo made a callout doc stating it made $100k in revenue and gigi shouldve paid the artists gigi made a doc stating all artists who signed up to make art knew it was volunteer work and were only gonna get a free deck or two they also used to be friends, so there's friend drama in the docs as well now there's a big debate on the ethics of volunteer art work and whether you should pay your artists IF the project makes a big profit (which fan projects typically do not)

@thegryffindor1258 15 күн бұрын

@@katliente bro you replied yourself 😭😭😭😭😭😭 tysmmmmmmm!!!!

@sorashiunin5287 13 күн бұрын

I've worked in so many zines and have only gotten paid in one once. I don't expect it when signing up for fan projects. 🤷‍♂️

@SenElric 14 күн бұрын

10:54 As someone who had participated on fanzines, mha & fma, they had always provided an option or say before application that you can ask for payment or leaving a % to the other artist to get, while also covering the cost of your merch (since the bundle is not magically be made by free 😅). Is weird if they don’t state how many sale were made? Yea. Is weird that artist don’t ask for payment? No xD In Japan is a big thing to protect IPs, even if it’s not overly policing on conventions, online is more easy to get in trouble, we like to think is a gray area and yeah in the big scheme of things selling 10 keychains of big ips with lots of official merch shouldn’t affect the big corpos, but still by law you’re on the wrong. That’s why many of the mods on fanzine try to make the cut necessary for the production and delivery and get a lil cut for themselfs and the artist that asked for payment, but is honestly not much for what I have seen.

@Seduisez 15 күн бұрын

Omg i love ur hr long videos, thank u for blessing us🙏

@mimilapin 14 күн бұрын

Truthfully most Japanese artists feel very strongly about making money off of fan works. They don't want to make profit, they just want to share their love of the show or series they're a fan of. If a fan project says it pays artists, some Japanese artists may decide not to participate because they don't feel comfortable being paid.

@mk_gamíng0609 14 күн бұрын

Its more to do with Japanese copyright law Its SUPER SUPER strict , Things like Fair use do not exist in Japan as we see it Its like how youtubers from Japan ask permission to play games .

@dinner1232 15 күн бұрын

Im in the middle of the video and im sooo confused

@Goner_Hanged_Man 14 күн бұрын

1. I remember being accused of whitewashing because I drew Chell from portal with a tan skintone. I made this drawing for my friend’s birthday. I never played portal so I used official renderings which are were with a bunch of shadows like she was in a dark room. So I had no idea what her skintone is. I just assumed to make it slightly lighter cuz of darkness on rendering. 2. As a person with BPD I feel like people should understand that sometimes mentally ill people behave irrational. I never want to hurt someone but my brain just go feral sometimes. I’m spending 60 euros on meds just to work properly please do not attack people if they “use mental illness as an excuse” sometimes mental illness IS a reason why people can behave aggressively