How The Internet Fell Out of Love With Lin Manuel Miranda

have you heard the scuttlebutt?
0:00 Intro
1:22 How does a bastard, orphan, son of a whore...
6:11 Tick Tick Boom interlude
7:48 Moana & Encanto
10:20 Not Every Character Can Rap
14:25 Colorism & Criticisms
Background music:
• Copyright Free Lofi Hi...
Follow me on twitter:
/ kaylasaysyt
End slate:
• Satisfied (8 Bit Version)
More on Lin Manuel/Promesa
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The Little Mermaid is a 2023 American musical fantasy film directed by Rob Marshall from a screenplay written by David Magee. Co-produced by Walt Disney Pictures, Lucamar Productions, and Marc Platt Productions, it is a live-action adaptation of Disney's 1989 animated film of the same name, itself loosely based on the 1837 fairy tale of the same title by Hans Christian Andersen. The film stars Halle Bailey in the titular role, alongside Jonah Hauer-King, Daveed Diggs, Awkwafina, Jacob Tremblay, Noma Dumezweni, Art Malik, Javier Bardem and Melissa McCarthy. The Little Mermaid follows a mermaid princess Ariel who is fascinated with the human world and makes a deal with a treacherous sea witch Ursula to trade her voice to human legs in order to impress Prince Eric, who is saved from a shipwreck, before the time runs out.

[@Housewarmin]

There aren’t many people like Lin. I’d rather him be cringey and overly excited about rap, than a horrible person.

[@Rosaisabellas]

fr i met him a few times, he was a total sweetheart!

[@fmadiva]

Still about slave masters rapping tho 😬

[@tsukitanuki101]

@@fmadiva I’d love to see this energy geared towards true crime works. Or movies ABOUT slavery that allow white men to drop the hard R in the name of “Acting” instead of a musical that mentions slavery..once? Twice in a cut song 💀 it’s not his job to end racism Yall 😭

[@EastmanEditing]

@@fmadiva That was the entire point though...so while I don't think everyone has to like it or feel comfortable with it, to many, the anti-slavery message was clear. The only thing I have a problem with is that there's no mention of George Washington owning slaves, so he does come across as a true hero. Though, I do think because the story only focuses on his war efforts and grace/humility as the President, it gets a reluctant pass from me. Obviously, Thomas Jefferson is seen as an absolute clown/villain, so that character doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'm sure there could've been a way Lin could've at least acknowledged GW's major moral flaws without merely hinting at them.

[@star_baker]

@@EastmanEditing Slavery is only one aspect though, Hamilton glorifies a war that exploited the poor. It makes these capitalist founding fathers appear as heroes when they were barely on the front lines - poor people were, like it is with all war. Yes it is history and Americans feel pride toward the founding of the US. We are a patriotic nation that rarely takes accountability so it makes sense that Hamilton is a hit. But the Revolutionary War was not pretty or entertaining. Hamilton glorifies war and glorifies people that created and nurtured crimes against humanity, such as slavery and the displacement and destruction of all Native American tribes. The fact that Lin saw himself in Alexander Hamilton honestly creates a dangerous narrative. I don’t expect the average person to understand any of this though even if you are liberal or a democrat, only socialists and anti-capitalists recognize and care about this stuff.

[@kilimenjiro3753]

I remember a tweet re:Lin-Manuel from a few months back that was exasperatedly saying, "You can find him cringey, but cringe is not a moral failing."

[@cor289]

this!!

[@austinlam1172]

I'm always saying, lmm is *the* poster child for the phrase "I am cringe but I am free"

[@gogopartytime]

Agreed. His cringe is what makes him Lin-Manuel. He wouldn’t think it’s cringe because it’s his passion.

[@mozorellastick2583]

To our generation being cringey or being a loser is a bigger deal than being an actually bad person. Being cringe IS a moral failing to us

[@sporer_]

@@mozorellastick2583 that is remarkably stupid and anyone who truly feels that way needs to reassess pretty much everything about their lives

[@lex9313]

lin: is known for rap lin: continues to do rap everyone else: WHY WOULD HE DO THAT

[@zandgall1837]

rap can be done in a lot of different styles

[@russella90]

nah you forgot something. everyone else: why would he do that... when he's so bad at it?

[@cm9241]

Yes, he should have given it up.

[@ryanatkinson8757]

@@zandgall1837 Rap is but patter is not. Even then WDTAB doesn't sound like A. Hamilton nor does that sound like You're welcome

[@ladyeowyn42]

Encanto is about intergenerational trauma, it’s not a thin plot at all. As a parent who is breaking cycles, I loved Encanto.

[@Siren9609]

A plot that would have been better if it was a tv series. It's the Eternals all over again

[@aliluv7816]

@@Siren9609 yeah encanto as a tv series would be much better

[@Jorge-kd7ww]

@@Siren9609 no it wouldnt

[@Jorge-kd7ww]

yea but she cant say that cuz that doesnt fit the narrative of the video

[@angelicabasque1749]

I love the complexity of the characters and their dynamics with each other. It was very comforting to see that other's struggled with familial expectations (especially as a Hispanic person). Like others said, where the movie dropped the ball on exploring all of that, a TV show could definitely pick it up.

[@tatehildyard5332]

I don't even think Lin himself is the problem or that anyone actually has an issue with him or the quality of his work (which is still pretty solid). It’s the overexposure. It’s the fact that Disney has his nose to the grindstone and is writing/acting in like 6 things at the same time. It’s over-saturating his media presence and making people think he’s less good than he actually is. And he won’t voluntarily stop or slow down because he’s someone who’s so grateful for the opportunity to work in this capacity and be in demand that he feels compelled to say yes to everything and anything without thinking about long term career impact or making him look corny or out of touch (which I honestly find more admirable and earnestly authentic). Yes Lin is a corny man without a lot of charisma and he’s always been that, get the hell over it because he’s clearly a hard worker and he deserves his good fortune. Once the public officially gets sick of him, Disney is going to drop him immediately and in 10-15 years everyone’s gonna realize I’m right and realize this backlash was incorrect and unfair.

[@desdar100]

Exactly this. However, people make these arguments about lmm, but all of his stuff does numbers so there's clearly mixed signals going on here. He gave Disney one of their biggest soundtrack since the Disney Renaissance in Encanto, a movie that in itself didn't actually perform financially well but was Vindicated by how big of a billboard hit it was.

[@saulshellokittyphone]

Like you said in 10-15 years you’ll be seen as a prophet I think too much criticism gets thrown his way for the stuff he produces but he clearly loves what he does and cares deeply about his work and I have so much respect for the man for that alone.

[@hectornerioiv4069]

Hopefully Disney doesn’t drop him but I have a feeling he is gonna have a lot of work

[@noelletakesthesky3977]

LMM can always say NO. The problem is that he won’t.

[@desdar100]

@@noelletakesthesky3977 I mean who would? He is a composer and an actor and he gets money from being attached to prolific projects. Bemoaning an actor or whatever for not taking specific jobs is kind of silly

[@kierangrossman1814]

The thing that fascinates me about Hamilton in hindsight is that if the show were developed even a few years later, it would have had a much harder time getting off the ground, and could have been somewhat different tonally. It was very much a product of the Obama administration era, and I struggle to imagine that same optimistic tone if it came out in the Trump era

[@desdar100]

The 2020 release came out in the trump era and after the BLM protest and was still pretty big

[@ames-inthe-grass]

@@desdar100 that’s because it was already popular and written before the trump era

[@desdar100]

@@ames-inthe-grass that's why many people would assume that it's falling out of favour or at least why it would but it really hasn't. It's surviving as long as it had despite how much has changed over the past couple years I think it's a testament to how Evergreen it is

[@TheBizzle1984]

I think most plays are products of their era though. Rent, for instance, is a very specific snapshot of a very specific time and place, and so was it's production. So are hairspray, and Chicago, and Wicked. Cats literally would have been (and is) considered a crapfest in any other era. I actually think that's one of the coolest things about live theater.

[@evanabbott2737]

I think a lot of the ticket sales came from people who hated trump.🤷‍♂️

[@misfits9294]

Honestly, one thing I will give him is that he actually addresses when he does things wrong and acknowledges it. Yes, this bar is extremely low, but given how terrible celebrities are at apologizing, I do respect his doing so.

[@oliverdelica2289]

That is true

[@amybess]

He didn't use a ukulele, either

[@dabatman5187]

Yeah, and the wrong thing wasn’t him trying to fuck a minor. Which is surprisingly rare for Hollywood

[@ivnwng]

That just means he has a good PR team.

[@mariic2]

Hey, at least he's honest with our money!

[@amybess]

What I despise is when people say it's Lin's fault that people made Founding Fathers their "uwu soft bois". No, he didn't. No creator says, "hey, make these people your uwu soft bois and ship them." If thats what you're making The Founding Fathers, you got issues.

[@gollygeewillikers]

or you’re very young and don’t understand how weird it is to make the founding fathers your soft uwu bois

[@manifestgtr]

I don’t know what a “soft boi” is but looking at the (embarrassing) etymology, I can only imagine it’s something that would make me sick to my stomach

[@Haverlock]

​@@m780dffperhaps this kind of behavior in fandoms should be discouraged

[@scritoph3368]

Honestly I think it’s fine as long as you understand that the characters in Hamilton are fictionalised versions of their real-life counterparts.

[@reveluvly]

HOLY SHIT YES, Lin should ABSOLUTELY focus more on directing movie musicals. Because he has a genuine skill for that because of his skill in writing and producing musicals, and he understands how to translate musicals to the screen very well

[@HalE14]

YES! Tick tick boom is my favorite movie and his direction is a BIG reason why! I want to see more!

[@katherinealvarez9216]

I wouldn't mind seeing more musicals from him.

[@carolinemcgovern4488]

Yep. Movie musicals are Lin's bread and butter- he's so good at it, and I wish he'd be able to focus on that more.

[@JamesLawner]

I was surprised to learn he didn’t direct the In the Heights movie.

[@cheesecakelasagna]

@@JamesLawner Probably a scheduling thing... or that since he's basically exhaled everything into the In The Heights musical (which artistically speaking is still the definitive medium of that story) he probably didn't want to work on something he already did.

[@linkjag]

I don't think Lin made any of the decisions regarding little mermaid. Every project he has actual creative control over is still very good.

[@desdar100]

It was actually Alan Menken who has full control over the creative choices, and Miranda was just bought in to work on new stuff while the former oversaw everything

[@fergie42069]

they're just like hey Lin write a few bars to add to this song and then they back the money trucks up to his brownstone

[@gretazimmerman8299]

Let's all just agree that this wasn't his idea, let alone his fault. The guys at Disney made him do some things he probably didn't want to do. I'm trying to stay neutral on this, but I believe that Lin deserves another chance, and Disney needs to learn that money and adoration aren't everything.

[@Kimmaline]

I cannot live in a reality where ALAN MENKEN was responsible for Scuttlebutt. Just.....NO.

[@desdar100]

@@Kimmaline we can just blame Disney because clearly they're proud of it.

[@heboy7298]

Encanto is incredibly layered, and even the happy songs are really sad. The “gifts” are normalized results of their traumas: emotional deregulation, people pleasing, perfectionism, adultification, daydreaming, no sense of self, etc. when they “lost their gifts”, they were healing. The reason Mirabel didn’t have a “gift” in the first place was because she was the cycle breaker. Bruno was the scapegoat, because he told people what they didn’t want to hear. He also happened to look the most like his father, so I’m sure his mother resented him. I could make a whole video on it. Paper thin!?

[@adrianamrodriguez-vazquez4860]

THIS. The movie is not about the fantastical powers, you could take them away and the movie could practically still work on its own.

[@schnozz4301]

I like the theme and there definitely was a lot of heavy topics touched on in there, but personally I think there was too many people and too much character growth that had to get rushed through in just 2 hrs. Would've liked to see how it worked as a tv show where a lot more time can be dedicated to individual characters and their complex relationships

[@adrianamrodriguez-vazquez4860]

@@schnozz4301 I get where you’re coming from, but it’s based on latinx families who usually have a lot of people

[@schnozz4301]

@@adrianamrodriguez-vazquez4860 Oh I completely get that. Sorry about the ambiguity, what I meant is I wish there was the screen time to show them all in depth, not that they should have just shrunk the family.

[@crystalchampagne]

i agree that the symbolism in encanto is poetic and full of gorgeous metaphors, and the message that it tries to convey is touching and profound. i still also think that the plot was weak. both can be true at once

[@WoefulMinion]

You have to remember that Lin Manuel Miranda had time on his side when he wrote "In the Heights" and "Hamilton." It's really unfair to expect something with a deadline of a few months to be a Hamilton, which took five years to craft. Also, I'm sure he's constantly being asked to include things he's known for whether they fit the work or not, like the rap in "The Little Mermaid" live film.

[@ethanreyes2631]

This along with those projects being his brain children. I think he’s also being limited by all the other cooks in the kitchen who are working on the projects he’s doing who want a specific sound from him. Scuttlebutt sounds like a song that Disney told him to write that would be catchy for little kids instead of something that shows his true skill. Compare that to Tick Tick Boom, which was successful towards its target audience because Lin was directing and it focused on his vision for the adaptation.

[@bleaf_]

Fellow cookie dough ice cream liker, I see you are a woman of taste. But honestly, I think the ideas "LMM is talented and Hamilton is, on the surface, a good musical, and you're not a bad person if you like it" and "PoC, especially black people, are completely valid in being uncomfortable or even angry about someone making fun lovable characters out of slave owners" can coexist. I do think people take the LMM hate a little too far and some just seem to be actively looking to find anything to condemn him and it's... I'm not sure that's healthy.

[@randomthoughts0829]

Also considering the fact that Hamilton was (to my knowledge) one of the first musicals to really start the diversity talk on broadway, leading to where we are now. Not to mention that it basically launched the original cast to stardom, giving them all much more limelight and opening the doors for them to take on more projects

[@lemoniieeee]

I am both of said people as a black womanly lmao,, I love lmm and belt out these songs

[@austinterry2343]

I matched with someone on hinge who hated Hamilton and when I asked why he said because it romanticized a slave owner and "proto-fascist". I also had problems with Hamilton but proto-fascist is a little ... much.

[@jamie1602]

@@randomthoughts0829 That answer is very complicated. You'd have to go back to Rogers and Hammerstein, if not Gilbert and Sullivan. You can't just start with diversity when white, colonial countries had laws in place to screw over actors who weren't visibly white. This would require a detour for Hollywood's population of POC actors that you don't even know are not white...because it all factors into stage performance. While LMM is part of this story, it's huge. And each piece is important or it all falls apart and is an incomplete answer. So... YES BUT ACTUALLY NO meme. But fascinating to study and quite a rabbit hole.

[@JayAlstonArt]

“Actively looking for any reason to condemn him” is the very thing that made me take a big step back from cancel culture. It’s become this disgusting mob creature that just wants to be fed, no matter how big or small the offense. It’ll never be satisfied (pun intended)

[@SaraGrossbarth]

I give Lin a lot of credit for mostly getting out of the way for the In The Heights movie and allowing younger stars to take center stage - it strikes me as the right move, compared to the strange Dear Evan Hansen movie adaptation and its determination to center Ben Platt. I've seen Hamilton three times - Chicago 2017, then Broadway tours in 2019 and 2023 - and I feel like it changes every time I see it based on whatever is going on in the world. Ultimately, I think it has staying power, though I am curious to see if they will ever restage it/rework it for later tours down the line as the zeitgeist changes. And I'm also a big cookie dough person!

[@egg_bun_]

Yes! He could have very easily taken over the role

[@missybarbour6885]

A+ casting as Piragua Guy

[@amandac.s.9452]

The thing that gets me with the colorism criticism of In the Heights' cast is that LIN DIDN'T CAST IT. I'm sure he had some input as a producer, but at the end of the day, he didn't book those actors. The criticism is valid, but it's aimed at the entirely wrong person.

[@peterlewis2178]

I'll always defend the Dear Evan Hansen movie, no matter how much it was obliterated by critics. I think it's downfall was mostly due to misguided shifting in cultural attitudes and tons of negative pre-press. I actually did a whole comparison at one point, taking notes between the Broadway version and the movie trying to make a video essay on it. Never quite got around to composing it, but I definitely have a lot of thoughts and arguments on it.

[@peterlewis2178]

@@amandac.s.9452 It's also worth considering that if it was actually somewhat race-blind casting (in terms of the darkness at least), it's still possible for there to be that lacking just by who auditioned and was best for the roles.

[@hollybrownvideos]

I am forever a Lin apologist- he’s a great person and has made beautiful music. He’s a talent and I know it’s cringe to enjoy some of the problematic aspects of Hamilton, but it really invests people into US history by humanizing founding fathers. Regardless if the IRL Hamilton was a good person or not, it gives intrigue into political and personal dynamics to a point in history few younger generations care about. It will lead people to find the source material for greater understanding. This isn’t the 90’s where kids don’t know the great injustices that created this nation.

[@cameronfield4617]

Its not that he makes a slave owner a fun guy that most Historians have an issue with. Like he still cheats on his wife so Hamilton isn't exactly squeaky clean It's more that Hamilton the musical perpetuates 'founders chic' which is a real phenomenon that seeks to deify the American founding fathers and thst they are the only worth while individuals of note to talk about in this point of history. I agree that Lin took an interesting approach, but still it does continue to highlight the lives of white slave owners who already have loads of material written on them, and brushes other people under the rug

[@fordprefect5967]

​@@cameronfield4617Here's the thing right, it's honestly pseudohistory, not discounting the criticisms through the founding fathers but it honestly does show to the rest of the world the viewpoint most Americans believe and show the founding fathers as untouchable super heroes. It brings the actual conversation of that into the cultural zeitgeist, which let's us talk about them and actually start giving a platform too the good and a lot of the bad those people did.

[@khadeejones1136]

He’s extremely talented and Hamilton was extraordinary good but the slave people never needed to be humanized. I think that we can admit to likening problematic things without justifying the nonsense

[@Origin820]

I don’t think any American has an issue with their eternal adoration for their founding fathers

[@EriKilljoy]

Let's just ignore how detrimental his words and actions have been to the entirety of Puerto Rico just because you think he's made "beautiful music" that isn't totally just great man history in a musical format (specifically re: Hamilton). LMM has done my people and my country a great disservice with his bootlicking and pleads for PROMESA. There's a reason why so many students protested him when he tried to bring Hamilton to our country.

[@peterlewis2178]

I hate how people tear him apart for his singing. I love his singing voice. Is it typical Broadway-level singing? No. But he sings everything in tune and he expresses the emotion through the singing very well. I think people mostly attack it because it's so unique and unfamiliar, and so they don't like it for that reason. But I don't think that's really fair.

[@awadrozda6489]

🎉 exactly! I love his voice, so true and sincere

[@larissamenezes1525]

ikr, it’s so unfair

[@aaronburrwaitsforit]

so much yes! I'm still not really over Hamilton (as you can probably tell from my account) but my zero formal musical education ass loved Lin Manual Miranda's voice and style of singing best out of the original cast of Hamilton, because it's so distinctive, unique and extremely expressive emotionally. I never got to see Hamilton live due to a combination of being broke, living in a non English speaking European country and also having been a young teen at the time. I fell in love with Hamilton the musical before it was available on Disney plus, so just from listening to the soundtrack on repeat, with zero accompanying image. My only indication of who was speaking was if I could recognise their actor's voice. My only way of reading the characters' feelings was also by the emotion infused in their voice, I didn't have the visual aid of their body language or facial expressions. And with Alexander more than any other character I was easily able to pick his voice out of overlapping singing and to tell what he was feeling in each song. I don't have the knowledge of singing to question the claim that Lin Manuel Miranda isn't as good at singing as the rest of the cast, but ultimately I don't care either way. I think most Hamilton fans would agree that what the voice of Alexander Hamilton needed to be was charming, unique and emotive, not academically perfect and LMM certainly delivered on all those fronts. You could cast the world's most critically acclaimed singer as Hamilton and the musical wouldn't work as well as it does with LMM because it simply isn't perfection that most of the public was looking for with him.

[@bellowingsilence]

Actually, I think most criticism of his singing comes from people not all that familiar with actual Broadway musicals. His voice really isn’t that unusual. He plays the sort of parts that seem pretty clearly written so they can be played by a guy without the best voice in the first place. There are plenty of Broadway roles like this, and there have been plenty of successful Broadway performers who weren’t any better at singing than LMM.

[@peterlewis2178]

@@bellowingsilence I don't know, I feel like I mostly see the complaints coming from musical theatre people. The same people who complain about the singing voices in the Les Mis movie adaptation (which I think are also good).

[@iain9757]

With Lin being Disneys “guy” it’s hard because how many of us were alive during the Alan Menkin/Howard Ashman disney era? Or Andrew Lloyd Webber or Stephen Sondheim takeover of Broadway ? Would we have gotten fed up of them if those projects came out now ? I don’t know , but the internets lack of understanding for how musical Theater works shows because so many issues people have of his online are basic musical Theater things such as random characters singing their own lines and then come together

[@noelletakesthesky3977]

Menken and Ashman gave us such different sounds for each movie. LMM’s stuff all sounds the same. I’m not talking about the structure of musicals, but the songs, the beats-LMM’s stuff is too similar.

[@desdar100]

@@noelletakesthesky3977 that's because those to represent the classical music structure and Miranda is the guy that modernize that sound. Yes, he's known for patter but that's not all that he's capable of

[@lilac3266]

@@noelletakesthesky3977 lin also has range it’s just the ones that get popular always sound similar. Songs like dos oruguitas or burn are very different

[@user-xb5bz4fu9o]

@@noelletakesthesky3977 I disagree. Even just in hamilton, he covers a wider range of genres than a lot of modern shows. What'd I miss vs burn vs guns and ships vs it's quiet uptown are all radically different in terms of instrumentation and style, and it does a disservice to his writing to say that he doesn't have range. He writes with a similar sound, but so does every artist, his just happens to be very distinctly nontraditional broadway. I think the issue is that we've seen back to back projects from him with little space in between for him to grow musically, and what he's best at writing and tends to get the most popular are his overlapping melodies like we don't talk about bruno or nonstop. we've been flooded with the same stuff because he's been going, well, nonstop.

[@lisah8438]

@@noelletakesthesky3977 That is because he is modern and more "urban". If you don't like that type of music it is going to sound the same to you. His music is latin, r&B and hip-hop influences.

[@SilverTheLover]

people get mad about his responses to criticism, but one must remember the shear volume of feedback he’s probably gotten through his rise to fame. at a certain point, you have to protect your own mental state and not worry too much about everybody else’s opinion. he’s a creative guy, and he can’t please everybody, but he seems to take a lot of pride in his work, and i admire that about him. people saying his songs sounding samey is valid but like.. he’s one guy, he has a distinctive style. i don’t see anything wrong with that, lots of songwriters write many songs that sound similar.

[@briberrymuffin]

Yeah, just reading a lot of these comments is annoying and overwhelming and I'm not even LMM. 😂

[@missybarbour6885]

But I also feel like it's not that all his stuff sounds the same, it's that people pick out the examples of stuff that sounds similar and ignore stuff that sounds TOTALLY DIFFERENT. Like, you would think none of them have heard Dos Oruguitas or Para Siempre

[@janeedooe]

100%, beside from his ignorance and inconsideration surrounding PROMESA, i kinda feel bad for the guy tbh. like he has been in controversies in 2015-2017, 2019, 2020, 2021 (in the heights colourism) 2022 (scamilton) and 2023 w this goofy ahh mermaid remake. he can’t catch a break and istg, most of it is unintentional, sum is him setting himself up for it, and the rest is disney is holding him hostage. he needs to get out of the disney basement asap, no rocky. turns out being a disney princess isn’t allat afta all☹️

[@EastmanEditing]

Perfectly stated. I have yet to know of a single human being who is capable of writing completely original songs that all slap and all sound unique. I personally do think he has a very unique sound for each project he works on. In the Heights sounds nothing like Hamilton, Moana or Encanto or Tick Tick Boom. Evidenced by the fact that I really only like the soundtracks to 2 out of 5 of those musicals. I also think The Little Mermaid sounded great with his Caribbean additions, but hated Awkwafina's voice in the Scuttlebutt like everyone else. I really can't criticize his one "bad" song, because I don't even think it's a "bad" song. When the LMM imitator redid the Scuttlebutt in LMM's voice, it is a pretty decent kid's song, especially if someone other than Awk OR Lin sang it...it needs a less "sqawky" voice, which both LMM and Awk happen to have lol. But still, this version is WAY closer to a kid's bop: kzbin.info/www/bejne/o4Ocf3-uZ7idoq8

[@alyssab3411]

right? its like lustening to one punk rock artist and then suddenly expecting them to sound like pop. its doesn't work that way

[@happywithdrawal]

I've never followed Lin Manuel Miranda too closely, but I've always respected how you can tell he really loves music. I know people have turned on him now and have started calling him all sorts of "goofy" and whatnot, but I'll always like him and have some admiration simply because the guy gets to do what he's passionate about, and you can tell that he loves it

[@Whatlander]

I'm noticing with Encanto (and more recently Nimona) that stories about trauma specific to a certain population get criticism for not having "more." These films tell a story about healing that some people badly need to hear. The nuance is in the context for the person who's living the same trauma being addressed. It reminds me of those "healing cartoons" in Japan whose entire purpose is to be soothing. I love me a fleshed-out narrative, but I also love these films that are tailored for people to have space to explore their own experiences and feel seen.

[@katiehusband1505]

I think the real problem with Lin is that hes sort of oversaturated in media. This isnt a bad thing. And i can see where it comes from. Look at his 2 original shows, theyre both about immigrants who work stupidly hard to achieve their goals. I think thats true of Lin. Hes taking all the opportunities that he can while he is the big thing because he knows that it won't last forever. I think hes doing rhe best that he can and he seems open to conversation. With the debt restructure, i think the way it was promoted at the time was different from the way it was implemented. He engages in conversation about critisism which is more that can be said for a lot of artists Like the best comparision i have is like 2013 John Green. I think for the most part hes a good dude, but hes inextricably linked with that teen girl tumblr fan girl mentality and that was exhausting for us all

[@desdar100]

I do think it's a case of overexposure because nobody complained back then about the styles of his two plays. Although I do think it's a little unfair that people are holding scuttlebutt against the guy since it's not like he had any say on how everything in the Remake went

[@amycox5733]

Damn, the John Green comparison works so well

[@pretelquetzal]

I think the same can be said for Taylor swift in 2016 when snakegate happened

[@andybrice2711]

Yeah, can we just agree to stop hero-worshipping people as though they're the new messiah because they produced some good work? People are flawed. Maybe Miranda's ego did get a bit inflated. But I think it was more cringey the way people were fawning over him.

[@shelbymckinney8888]

Lin Manuel Miranda is a talented man. But I feel like he is way better at project that he has time to work on and not rushed out. I don't want him to stop doing what he love's and its kind of annoying that people are using him as a scapegoat.

[@alexamichelle8915]

Agreed, and it’s totally true We can just look back on to his career and every single masterpiece he has created took time and meditation Him being in Disney isn’t bad but it’s clearly not making a favor to his work

[@mollymo1490]

I think you said it perfectly when you mentioned how Lin keeps getting used as a scapegoat. Especially with the little mermaid remake, there were a lot of things that in my opinion were done beautifully, mostly the addition of Eric’s song. It was obvious that Lin had extensive knowledge of the stage adaptation to be able to bring similar themes into the movie. Scuttlebutt felt like the studio exec’s wanted another Bruno moment, and forced Lin to throw in one of his catchy ear worm rap moments, even when it doesn’t fit the theme that he was already doing a good job creating around. I think because he has such a unique presence in everything he works on, the public finds it easier to blame him for everything they don’t like. When it comes to movies, especially Disney ones, we aren’t “in the room where it happened” and therefore can’t say with confidence what choices were his and what he was even allowed to touch. Ultimately, I think it’s time we back off and focus on more important things. Let the man sing his songs, have a giggle, and let it go.

[@natfrog]

nah I still love Lin! his musicals are incredible live, I love Moana and Encanto soundtracks, Tick Tick Boom is great too. I think a lot of people are jumping on the hate train- but he was just contracted to work on Little Mermaid- all decisions were still made by the production team. They definitely asked him to include a goofy rap song as they were the most popular ones in the previous Disney movies he worked on.

[@mareebee7046]

Frrrr!

[@deo3367]

Thank you! He is a musical genius. A great composer and writer of our time. People want to find something to dislike, and want to be mad about things. This person has no clue what she is talking about in this video.

[@fll42]

Kayla, the video ended and you left us with a very important question unanswered. Did you buy Brian dinner? I find your silence on the subject speaks volumes.

[@FuzzyKittenBoots]

I too need to know this.

[@mulle0930]

Give us the answers

[@missybarbour6885]

I really think people are gonna come around on all of this, tbh. It feels like the internet has a reflexive need to hate on anything it loved 5 years ago, so Hamilton just had its moment on the hot seat in 2020-2021. But the quality of the work stands, and once we look back on it as a piece of art and not a piece of content we liked a few years ago, we'll all have much kinder eyes.

[@jonathandansem]

Exactly

[@ktlg1423]

I agree. People are already revisiting hamilton songs on tiktok. There were many times in pop culture where something was considered cringe/weird but then came back as "Why were we hating this? It's actually good." He still has his whole career ahead of him and will probably continue to make great music.

[@Vivian-ks7jr]

It will be so fascinating to watch younger kids “rediscover” Hamilton later

[@EastmanEditing]

@@ktlg1423 Also, as someone who actively avoided Hamilton because I had only heard one or two songs that seemed "cringe" to me, I JUST saw Hamilton for the FIRST time a year ago. And now, I am now in my dorky, obsessed LMM phase 8 years behind everyone else. It's taken the spot as my favorite musical and that is saying a lot since Rent has held that spot for me for the past 25 years. Just some perspective...everything gets tired and old after a few years, and then we take a break (pun) and return to it. But as a new fan, the songs are still stunningly beautiful, haunting, catchy, complex, and exciting. I have never listened to a musical on repeat so much without skipping a single song. So...I'm anxiously awaiting this resurgence in Hamilton without it just being mocked for it's cringe factors. I don't even think the opening song is cringe anymore, and I really used to "hate" it. (Though I had never even listened to it all the way through, so I don't think that's fair)

[@ktlg1423]

@@EastmanEditingSimilar story! I was into hamilton a little bit when it came out, but never paid much attention besides one or two songs. However, I really got into it recently as well. The lyrics may seem sorta cringe at times, but overall the music (and story) is something that can't be overlooked. I've come to enjoy songs that I didn't before and have been streaming the soundtrack like crazy too lol.

[@emmeoliver5007]

Say what you wanna say about his work but Lin is a genuinely sweet guy. Some friends and I picketed in New York during the writers strike. He brought donuts for people, he waved to fans who recognized him, he waved and smiled at my boyfriend who adores him, it was just really sweet and you can tell he cares about his work. I think sometimes when studios get ahold of people and expect them to churn out hit after hit using the same mold it can wear the person down and stifle their creative liberty.

[@its-MK...]

This was going to happen no matter what. When someone gets that famous that quickly, you can guarantee a backlash eventually. But he's such a ridiculously talented person & a gift for everyone. We've ALL been cringey in life but I'm pretty sure none of us wrote Hamilton.

[@ThisIsMeMorgan]

Scuttle butt is really Disney executives not being able to read the room and Lin is there EMPLOYEE. “And I’d do it too for a check”😂 but legit I think he needs to direct more because Tik Tik boom was a masterpiece

[@Mildredpotka]

CITE YOUR SOURCES. YOU HAVE HIS CONTRACT?

[@satinahall]

The thing is, I'd be intrested to know if it's Lin pushing for this style of song or Producers. To me Scuttlebutt REEKS of Disney asking for this style of song because they know how recognisable his style is. I think he's just written himself into a corner where he can't escape his own creation

[@ashlinrose4542]

Scuttlebutt wasn’t even that bad, if I were still a little child I would’ve wanted to memorize that entire song. I feel like it’s a song aimed more towards children and also to work as a sort of comic relief

[@jotunfalls4026]

We also need to appreciate this man's range more. Like, yes there is a very tipical hip-hop/rap sound that we recognize as LMM's style, but he's also got other songs that are completely different. Like Dos Oruguitas, Burn, What did I miss?, It won't be long now and We know the way.

[@nateds7326]

I personally refuse to believe that it was Lins idea to remove the "body language" line. 1. That sounds way more like a studio note than anything, especially knowing Disney. 2. This is Lin "you see that was my wife who you decided to fuuuuuuuu" Manuel Miranda. That just doesn't seem like a Lin move to me.

[@desdar100]

It wasn't, and it was mandated by Disney via Alan Menken. The entire philosophy of these remix existThe entire philosophy of these remix exist to to quote on quote "fix" the problematic things that people in the early 2000s complained about

[@bellowingsilence]

@@desdar100 yeah. Lemme just add that Alan Menken explicitly said that this was HIS [Menken’s] decision.

[@desdar100]

@@bellowingsilence are you concurring with me?

[@bellowingsilence]

@@desdar100 yes. Getting tone across in text is hard lol

[@desdar100]

@@bellowingsilence Oh my bad lol

[@neivilde.1242]

he has a very distinct style as a composer just like everyone else, and i like that i can hear a song and know he did it. even in bring it on the musical, which no one ever brings up, it was already there

[@achewy7700]

imagine the whiplash i had when i realized this during a pbs kids show's theme song

[@missybarbour6885]

People always say this, but I feel like if you played "Shiny" for someone out of the context of Moana nobody would clock it as the Hamilton guy

[@Fbisdbjf]

Exactly, me and brother watched encanto and he didn’t realise going in that LMM wrote it until that first song then it’s clearly his work. I think you can tell when something is sondheim or Menken or Rodger’s and Hammerstein or Andrew Lloyd Webber. It’s a signature. What I appreciate him for is that he is very clever at getting a lot of information into a short song while keeping it enunciated. Family Madrigal was a very clever song that allowed him to have a large family introduced with their powers and their quirks. Hamilton got a lot of plot/background history into songs to keep it clear what was going on for an audience who might not be knowledgable or totally ignorant about that period of history. As a Brit, I had very little knowledge or understanding about the war of independence and the birth of the US government because it’s not history that British people learn at school.

[@allytheartist]

So incredibly distinct. After I saw hamilton for the first time I had to dig through archives on npr's site to find a show I'd heard over a decade prior on the radio because it reminded me so much of that style and i could only remember one full lyric...turns out it was very early lin-manuel Miranda show 😅

[@TheCanderemy]

​@@missybarbour6885 its in the lyrics sometimes and the rhyming structure. He loves his internal rhymes. You might not clock it the first time, but once you really listen- it's so LMM

[@ElfInTheFlowers]

As a Puerto Rican I had a very particular reading of the Hamilton musical that had more to do with a young Caribbean person seeking independence from their colonizer… as Puerto Rico is a colony. I became sorely disappointed and later livid at Miranda for throwing his whole people under the bus and advocating for the PROMESA bill with then president Barak Obama, going as far as playing Hamilton in the White House in 2016. He has always been seeking validation from the US and ended up doing great harm to Puerto Rico. It would take forever to explain PROMESA but I encourage people to read the law and the legacy of consequences. My profound distrust and disgust for his actions were only compounded after Hurricane María. He meant well and gathered a lot of money but was advocating to bring Nestle (infamous for destroying landscapes, child labor and general exploitation) to revive the coffee industry on the island. It gets complicated because I do love his writing style and Moana has I’ve of my favorite soundtracks. I also can’t blame him for getting a contract with Disney. I can blame him for destroying pension plans and the shuttering of schools in his family’s homeland.

[@a.j.barton6917]

Absolutely THIS. PROMESA was cruel and twisted.

[@thotsandpears]

Thank you for this. The lack of interest towards this very real issue is apparent in the comments here.

[@midnightrant7487]

I remember back in high-school telling a friend, "Shouldn't have expected less from a _no sabo_ kid" I was *livid* back then.

[@leavemealone802]

I am trying to find more information on this bill, but I fail to see why Lin is at fault for not causing positive results to Puerto rico. As far as I saw, it was a bill to help Puerto Ricos economy right? How was his support became detrimental to the country? And how was this support? Was it a tweet saying 'I support this', or he made a investment on it? I am still looking more about it, but since you are Puerto Rican, I would love to listen to your thoughts I am a huge Lin fan, and is the first time I hear this argument against him, and I want to understand why this is his fault

[@thotsandpears]

@@leavemealone802 It doesn't matter if they claimed it was to help Puerto Rico's economy. That's just the classic US strategy to keep a colony in a stranglehold.

[@madamemimosa8325]

Just came here to say that Encanto tells an amazing story of how well meaning adults, (here it’s Abuela Alma), form both glorifying AND hurtful family dynamics. So many of us grew up in families where the children are pigeon holed into roles that are both flattering and limiting. The smart one, the pretty one, the athletic one, the fun one, etc. While I do love the music in Encanto, I disagree that it’s the best thing about it. The story is wonderful and important, IMO.

[@manders8698]

Completely agree. I cried watching this movie because of how much the characters’ expressions of their feelings hit home with me, and I rarely cry during movies.

[@mammoneymelon]

​@@manders8698 SAME OMG i think encanto's music appealed to KIDS. the teens and adults that like it are fans because of the themes of dysfunctional families and intergenerational trauma in a way that wasn't just "family evil". disney music doesn't have to be masterpieces, they just need to convey a message and be catchy while doing it. i think some people think everything has to appeal to them specifically. not liking something doesn't make it bad. the way people talk about art is so strange to me

[@Mistardmuster]

Lin's ability and versatility have impressed me since the first time I listened to Hamilton. That being said, I remember watching Moana when it came out in theaters and actually being really upset over how lazy How Far I'll Go was for a LMM song. It wasn't bad, but considering the same guy who wrote Hamilton had written it, I couldn't help but feel weirded out that he would write a song with the most basic 4-chord progression and rhyme "island" with "island." THEN I found his demos for Moana and it was an entirely different movie: it was far more musical theatre-y with an ensemble opening number and even a song that was basically Moana and Maui doing a haka (which would have made the movie so much better and I'm still angry they cut it). There wasn't even a demo for How Far I'll Go, probably because he wrote it in 5 minutes out of spite after Disney cut his original work and told him to write another Let It Go. What I think is happening is Disney can't leave a good thing alone and is purposely asking LMM to write the same song over and over again for their remakes even when it makes no sense for the story, and he's doing it because it's Disney and a paycheck. If they just let him write the music he wants to write for the projects he fits into, I don't think he'd be considered as poorly by audiences.

[@nicolegorring9761]

Where did you find the Mona demo's?

[@giantpinkcat]

Fun Fact: Lin Manuel Miranda was on the Electric Company reboot back in 2009

[@chocolatesouljah]

That is a fun fact indeed!

[@friendlyblvckhottie]

I was obsessed with that show! Also how I immediately recognized Chidi from ‘The Good Place’

[@base4yrface]

That show was my shiiiiit from the ages of 3 to 7

[@najawin8348]

@@friendlyblvckhottie I'm so happy that William Jackson Harper is doing good now. I think that makes like two of the protags/antags that are actually getting work, lmao.

[@harryfranklin1263]

@@najawin8348 Shockwave is a beatboxer for the group Freestyle Love Supreme (which Lin was also a part of). They even had a limited run on Broadway a few years ago

[@craisins95]

I was on tumblr when the Hamilton OBC came out in September 2015 and my friends and I were into it. By 2017, we and the internet at large it seemed were on the “Hamilton is cringe and Lin is cringe” train. The younger people I know (under 30) still feel heavily this way while those over 35 don’t treat it as harshly. The justified criticisms from Black and brown writers made me rethink Hamilton and my enjoyment of the show now is on an “I recognize what is problematic about this but I still enjoy much of it.” The music, the leitmotifs, the way the story is told are all good imo. The OBC cast is brilliant and I’m glad that Ariana Debose (who ironically got the cringe treatment as well) won an Oscar for a role she won a few years after her Hamilton run. Completely agree with you and Brian about Tick, Tick…BOOM. Easily the best film released during the pandemic’s first two years. It really impressed me and I would love to see Lin direct more movie musicals. I liked Moana and Encanto but did not like the movie adaptation of In the Heights. It felt longer than the stage musical did and some of the narrative choices made for this adaptation weren’t my favorite. Overall though, Lin is fine idk. By all mean point out his shortcomings and make critiques, but he’s not Henry Kissinger. The man isn’t committing war crimes just because he’s a nerd who’s really into musical theater. Oversaturation isn’t anyone’s best friend and I think, apart from the legit criticisms of Hamilton, that that is his worst “crime.”

[@Jessica-ch1yi]

It confuses me when people complain that someone’s stuff all sounds similar or that they all have similar themes, yeah he’s an artist. Every artist has their own distinct style, if you ask a painter to do your portrait it’s still gonna be in their style even if they usually do landscapes. Lin manual Miranda seems like a very nice and genuine guy, he’s passionate about his work and he’s super talented in a lot of areas. If you don’t like the way his stuff sounds that’s fine, but why hate him for it? Also I happen to think his singing is good, his character in Mary Poppins returns was a lot of fun 🤷‍♀️

[@KristenK78]

He definitely got some vocal lessons between Hamilton and MPR, and it SHOWS at the end of the opening number. Also in the Hamildrop “Cheering for Me Now”.

[@ashlinrose4542]

I love Mary Poppins returns

[@Jessica-ch1yi]

@@KristenK78 what’s a hamildrop?

[@crimsonmaverick8237]

I owe a lot to Lin; as I’m going to school to do musical theater because of him. Before Hamilton, musical theater never quite did it for me. I thought it was boring and obnoxious. But when I heard the album for the first time I was utterly stricken. Never had I heard musical theater have this kind of energy; and I learned that I wanted to express myself that way too.

[@theDK468]

i hope you’ve since realised how wrong you are about musicals. the versatility in musical theatre is crazy… lol. hamilton was fresh but was not actually that revolutionary, especially you were already familiar with musical theatre

[@EastmanEditing]

Agreed, even as a theater nerd who sees about 8-10 Broadway shows a year. Hamilton changed my life. It has become my favorite musical of all time and even knocked a few classics down a notch. I'm still not sick of the soundtrack, and I've seen it live 5 times now and counting. Each time I see it live, I ride the high for days. I'm so happy to hear how much Hamilton has impacted your life! I think a whole new generation of theater kids will be born solely because of this musical alone. And to me, that is pretty damn revolutionary ;-)

[@crimsonmaverick8237]

@@theDK468 ok

[@Starburst514]

​@@theDK468This is true, but it's also true that despite this musical theater is represented in a very certain type of way to people outside of it, mostly by the old classics (which I love by the way) so most people's first experience with musical theatre tends to be Rent, Les Mis, Carousel, Cats, Phantom, maaaaaybe Wicked, which on thier own are great, but they're also what is expected and flanderized in wider media. The whole "showtune, why is everyone singing and dancing, this is weird" image people get a lot of them just aren't interested in. Hamilton isn't the first if it's kind to do rap/R&B music but it's the first major one to get into the public consciousness. I know a lot of people who hated musical theatre but after Hamilton gave it another shot and discovered other shows and how versatile it is There's literally nothing wrong with finally finding something that speaks to you and finding a wider interest because of it. Also let's be real, drama people can be stuck up and exclusionary, Hamilton with Lin was a down to earth guy who just liked getting people interested in new things, he loves sharing his interests with others. He was welcoming and hyped to see all the new people getting into the theater because of Hamilton.

[@crimsonmaverick8237]

@@Starburst514 Absolutely; dead on the mark.

[@Serioslump]

After I finished Encanto I literally had the thought "this concept would have been bettter executed as a TV series". I'm so happy to know someone else found it a little thin. Good and appealing, but definitely light on content.

[@RaisonLychi]

Even the arrbook doesn't give any extra details on the characters they didn't have time to flesh out like Camillo and Julieta how did Abuela view the use of their gifts?

[@Unpoeticirony]

I hope it gets a broadway run! I think it would benefit from extra songs and exposition where some of the other Disney projects feel bloated when extended to 2.5-3 hours.

[@Serioslump]

@@Unpoeticirony yes!!! I also like this idea!! If the movie was a bit longer they could do so much more

[@d.o.m.i.]

I made 4 people watch it and 2 of them said the same as you, and I agree. from what I've read, LMM made the songs and the screenwriters made the plot after, meaning they had to fill in many gaps. I think that explains why some things in the movie don't work for me - like that Luisa and Isabella are the ones who have songs when Dolores and Camilo are the more charismatic ones. Maybe the screenwriters could have made Isabella and Luisa more fun, or asked LMM to make another song in Isabella's solo's place (not Luisa's solo, Surface Pressure is perfect and I stand by it); but the production has probably been rushed, as per usual (also I don't like that Bruno was in the house all along and we got NO indication of it)

[@TheCanderemy]

LMM didnt MAKE Encanto tho.. i dont see how being a songwriter for the movie would give him creative control over the entirety of the movie, including how its produced

[@Givemepeacealone]

He’s just completely over exposed and people just aren’t into his style when it’s literally nearly the only style available anymore

[@host_theghost507]

The problem isn't with Lin-Manuel but with our expectations. No one thought Ashman and Menken had sold out when they went from off-Broadway to Disney, or the Sherman Brothers when they wrote songs praising General Electric appliances. It's hard to imagine two guys who were more overexposed in the 80s and 90s than Phil Collins or Elton John, but writing for Disney didn't exactly hurt their reputations. But in this country you are either an artist or an entertainer, and Miranda got stuck with the artist label. Which means he can sing about voting for Hillary and it only helps him, but if he adds a song to The Little Mermaid then he's a sellout. As an artist, he's allowed-even encouraged-to get political, but he's not allowed to write for seagulls. Yes, "We Don't Talk About Bruno" was an earworm, but it's also been embraced as a statement about how families hide away their divergent members. Artists get to make statements. They don't get to check their importance at the door and just make people happy.

[@margicates553]

This is a really good point

[@XaviereJade]

Even Sondheim has had many flops and mistakes. The greats are remembered for their many accomplishments, but they all have quite a few misses mixed in. With internet culture, we get to see all of LMM's misses very in the moment. I think in the end he'll be remembered as a generally good human and a genius composer despite the bumps that come with great success...but then again, I am a millennial ;)

[@jamiekearns-twitchell2691]

Crucible Cast Party was Lin's best work and I will die on that hill. It is crazy to think how quickly Hamilton became dated. Like you said, once-in-a-generation, but very much OF and therefore inescapable from that generation. This is not a piece of work that will grow and shift with the times like stage musicals before it. All that said, LMM seems like a genuinely good dude and hopefully that positivity buffets him over the sea of internet hate. I hope that he's offered more creative control in his future endeavors with Disney, because he IS a great songwriter. But he needs to bow out of some projects. Let us breathe.

[@desdar100]

Hamilton has its critics, but the same can be said about a lot of other prolific Broadway shows. Just last Friday the streets of New York were crowded because there was a huge event with it

[@hectornerioiv4069]

Agreed!

[@missybarbour6885]

25 virgins and a whole lotta sprite at the Crucible Cast Party (whaa)

[@kindateia]

I mean... Did Cats grow and change with the times lol? And it's still considered a classic enough. Musical theater is something that is incredibly prone to be dated, because it directly reflects it's era. But that's literally how it works. Nobody is going to go to a new musical following classical structure, because they've heard it before. Theater always needs something new! That's why most popular recent musicals are all very characteristic of the times we live in now, because of course they are!

[@Starburst514]

​@@kindateiayeah that's what makes musical theatre a unique medium, it's not like novels, or TV or movies where you partly try to appeal to a large audience, it's meant to reflect when it's made like you said, it's part of how it's consumed

[@TeagueChrystie]

Love Hamilton, also know all the arguments (I think?) for why it's a problem, and agree with them. It's great and broken at the same time. That said, the other day I saw a tweet where someone was like "just heard a song from Hamilton for the first time, THIS is what y'all went crazy for?" and it was a bit painful. Because (even on top of the analytic critiques), the fact is, the album and to a lesser extent the show are rapped s l o w l y. It's a musical, every word is meant to be heard clearly on the first listen, and some of its audience may well be struggling to keep up. So there's that. But also, just... even if individual songs aren't, like, mind blowing, individually... the *conglomeration* and *development* of song after song contains a large part of the success of the show. Characters, leitmotifs, reprisals, themes, perspective (as in: making the story Eliza's, or focusing on immigration as a theme) are all huge aspects of the artistic accomplishment that don't come across in any particular song, but as a result of the story. But yeah. Rapping slave masters, off the bat, completely unusable premise (as pop art) beyond the Obama years. I think what happened is Lin read a great biography of an underappreciated figure from history, realized he could do 8 Mile with it, and he did the best he could - which is really really good, in that context. Moana was good, Heights was good... he started slipping for me (artistically) roundabout Little Mermaid.

[@JuliaDelbel]

"he started slipping for me (artistically) roundabout Little Mermaid." So last week?

[@angelofpurity1992]

​@@JuliaDelbel 😂

[@reallollabunny]

@@JuliaDelbel :D love this comment! haven't seen The Little Mermaid yet but I doubt it will be the last thing LMM does... or that the quality will decline constantly :D

[@def_nothing]

he started slipping for me with vivo smh. 'my own drum' was my breaking point

[@reallollabunny]

@@def_nothing the guy is 43. Give him time and he will blow you all away again ^^ (yes, I am quoting Hamilton now :D)

[@notflorencepugh]

Becoming a recognized and successful artist in Hollywood and Broadway is extremely hard! Lin Manuel is incredibly creative and talented. "His thing" can become repetitive but at least he's known for something HE established in current media. It's easy to criticize and judge when you're not the one creating from scratch or being vulnerable on stage. I truly feel he has good intentions with his art, and when he misses something, he takes accountability for it and tries to do better next time. Those who put themselves out there are the ones who go the distance, even if the journey isn't perfect.

[@carriew5106]

As a Brit, who has seen the West End Hamilton several times since it opened (pre and post pandemic), I have zero association between that and Obama, or current American Politics generally. We have our own immigration issues here and those themes work well. Likewise a British reaction to King George is far more personal given we still have a monarchy (side note, that comedic aspect has received recent pushback since Queen Charlotte on Netflix made George a more sympathetic character). For me Hamilton represents a show which led to a fantastic refurbishment of an old theatre, brought crowds back to the Victoria end of the West End (Wicked and Hamilton are not in the official West End area, despite having two of the largest theatres), and most importantly introduced a lot of excellent performers who hadn't been able to get roles before. Maybe we just don't get the saturation of LMM that American audiences do, but I had no sense the internet had fallen out of love with him until I saw this video.

[@EastmanEditing]

I'm American and I also had no idea we had fallen out of love with him. I also only just saw Hamilton for the first time last year, so it hit me differently than it would've had I seen it during Obama's era. Sure, it didn't have the positive, happy feeling vibes it would've during Obama, but instead, it fired me up to keep fighting back. I was genuinely devastated and depressed during certain parts that I probably wouldn't have been during the original years it was playing. But to me, that almost made it even more powerful. I think if you watched it years ago, there's no going back. But people who have watched it since the Disney release seem to have a different take because they aren't comparing it to the original release, and at the same time, they aren't sick of Lin yet either. That being said, there are also people watching it for the first time who don't like it and have valid criticisms, but I think it's a matter of personal choice as to whether the criticisms invalidate the entire artistic library of LMM or not. For me personally as well as the majority of people I know from all walks of life, LMM still seems to be greatly appreciated.

[@linamina3600]

I feel like it is, among other things, a symptom of overexposure of his very recognizable sound. He seems like a nice dude, that is really passionate about what he does and actually knowledgeable about the history of the references he uses. But most damming is, that he uses pop and hiphop as a gimmick in musicals, which wears thin quickly, as it feels like listening to the same song over and over again(even when they aren’t identical but recognizable his music). I do however think that he gets a lot of flag for things he likely has nothing to do with, but who else to be made at? A faceless disney producer/executive?

[@srtatropicalia]

I don't exactly think that his gimmick (as you put it) has to become necessarily boring and repetitive, I just think that Lin needs time to innovate and create new sounds and alternatives using it. But when he's not given time and or help, we end up with things like Scuttlebutt, that sounds like all the lin manuel Miranda classic song parts put together. Hamilton is extremely well composed, and it's not simply putting pop and hip hop into it. Each songs takes heavy inspiration from different rappers and specific styles of songs, making abundant reference to hip-hop culture. More than that, each song is absurdly well written. He also had a lot of time to come up with it, it was a long project that he was passionate about and had a very clear idea to inspire him and guide his creative thought. In the heights also seem to follow Latine rhythms and draw inspiration from that to combine with it's musical vibe. It doesn't seem like the same happened to the little mermaid, it would be so interesting if the songs drew inspiration from Caribbean music more clearly or in a more interesting way. But it's clear from the new songs that they didn't really have a line connecting them all, it just seems messy

[@quenepacrossing4675]

in the heights (the original musical with the original cast) is still my favorite piece of media ever made and as a puerto rican it gives me feelings nothing else has achieved. that said, the knowledge you have bestowed upon me about this awkafina rap has given me critical psychic damage... so i guess the universe is in balance.

[@baileyellison642]

Lin is an amazing person. Like, forget all his creative works. He’s just a really great guy. He’s cringy sometimes, but what theatre kid isn’t. As far as his creative work goes, he puts his heart and soul in to his work. Even if it turns out bad. And u canNOT say Lin didn’t put his full heart and soul into his work with the little mermaid. It is his favorite movie of all time. He literally named his first born Sebastian because of the movie. He was SO excited when he found out he was getting a chance to work on the movie. I personally haven’t had the privilege to see it yet and form an opinion, but I am excited to see it if nothing but for the sole fact that people like him worked on it, people who r extremely passionate about this story, who grew up with it. I never really thought about how if Hamilton came out during the trump era it would have a much harder time getting off the group, but it makes sense. That era set off so many dark things, anything that even had half a light like this that wasn’t already established struggled

[@cbpd89]

In a few years, the internet will be like: LMM music my my ChiLdHoOd!! He's a good composer and songwriter. I think it would be great if he ever got a chance to sit quietly and write a Broadway show again though. Lin is getting blamed for a studio machine that sucks and is getting over exposed, but in 7 years there will be a new rose colored view of this guy.

[@keroroplatoon3216]

I think the thing about Hamilton is that, if Hilary won, there’d be far less criticism of it, because the optimism of the pre-Trump era likely wouldn’t have died the way it did when Trump took power. A large group of people look back at this era and Hamilton representing it, and are bitter of kind of the innocence the nation at large lost.

[@Unpoeticirony]

I have three thoughts: 1. As a voice teacher, I’m SO SICK of my students wanting to rap in their lessons. So much of the music marketed to the younger demographic (descendants, Encanto, JoJo Siwa) is virtually melody-less, out of their range, and isn’t very productive to spend lesson time on. 2. The Little Mermaid broadway musical has some of the best new broadway Disney music imho and the fact that we didn’t got Lin Manuel Miranda half bakes instead of the music that Alan Menken already wrote is an Oscar-baity disgrace. 3. I think Disney has been rushing their projects for a long time now, and I imagine that is to blame for the lack of quality in the new music. Of course it’s gonna sound samey if you don’t give your composers and lyricists time and space to come up with original ideas.

[@desdar100]

Tbf, hip-hop as a whole has just grown in popularity with artists like Kendrick Lamar dominating the Billboards, and Miranda sort of popularize that in the Broadway scene

[@panmoncada7257]

YOU SAID IT all the live action movies have missed a big opportunity when it comes to the added broadway music. The little mermaid is such an underrated soundtrack

[@iain9757]

I think all of the Disney Broadway shows are the best versions. It’s WILD to me how popular “let it go” is when the film has it once when the musical uses it through the show.

[@AWlpsSHOW36]

Encanto shouldn't count because they music is amazing. There is only one rap in all of the songs and that's Dolores's part in 'We Don't Talk About Bruno'.

[@noelletakesthesky3977]

Disney doesn’t need time for new songs for movies when they already have the stage versions. Sadly, what they’re doing is pandering for diversity points (speaking as a liberal here). LMM is a POC, the ONE they can think of apparently, and so toss him in the middle of it, and you’ve got a trendy name AND get to check a box. They know that people will pay to go see how bad things are, which is a net-WIN for a for-profit company, and if you can claim criticism is just racism, them critics become worried about being too critical even when their big criticisms aren’t about race. Disney’s giving us train wrecks, then using race as a shield.

[@sanesammie]

Idk i kinda feel like he's getting the Hathaway treatment. Evryone started hating on her during her les miserable era because she...wanted it too much and liked her job? The court of public opinion is so wishy washy. He's still a cool high school theater teacher to me.

[@sissy7870]

I find it amusing that people can be critical of other people on what they bring to the table. I learned about Hamilton from my granddaughter who is eight years old. She knows all the songs. Due to her love of the play and the songs, we have done extensive researched on Hamilton. My granddaughter learned who he was, what he brought to the table. Because of Lin’s play, it is opened up a part of history for her that may have been glossed over! I once visited Hamilton‘s grave at Trinity Church. I will be going back and taking my granddaughter with me so she can make a connection with what she learned by watching this play. So hats off to Lin and the entire cast! More importantly, if people think they could do a better job, they should do! SMILE MORE, CRITICIZE LESS!

[@stripes-2250]

I started having the oddest musical renaissance in my life when Hamilton came out on Disney+ and it totally got me looking into other LMM projects after I fell in love with the Hamilton OST but also his work in Moana and other animation projects even beyond Disney. I didn’t really have that same personal stan vision when going through his work but I just thought the man was talented. Then I started seeing take downs of him and I was just 😅 sheesh! So it’s crazy where he shows up nowadays but he probably isn’t going to fade out of pop culture hits for quite a while.

[@Zyxie_Zyxie_Zyxie]

Well this is what happens when u give theater kids too much power 🤷‍♀️

[@htcheeto420]

Frrrr

[@AWlpsSHOW36]

That's pretty rude and shitty, mate.

[@ashriihi]

Theatre kids never grow out of their cringe.

[@waynehylics]

@@ashriihi I hope they stay cringe I love seeing people have fun

[@gogopartytime]

LMAO 🤣

[@kevinhartman1724]

Lin Manuel is not a corny. The Man can freestyle better than most rappers out there. It's art. He can act sing and dance. I don't know who has "fallen out of love" with him lol. He's still the one celebrity I use when asked "what famous person would you want to meet dead or alive?"

[@dontnerfmebro8052]

Idk man, "what if slave masters rapped!" Is corny af no matter how talented the production. People can be corny AND talented.

[@xp8969]

True, Lin's racism is way worse than corny

[@paolamaria1992]

@@dontnerfmebro8052 By that logic musical theater is corny in itself

[@lucyblackbird7327]

I understand some of the criticism pointed out here. Someone talked about overexposure and I think that is valid. Any artist put in the spotlight in the manner he has been put, will feel saturated. And of course, everyone is entitled to their on musical taste and is fine not liking his work. What I think is ridiculous though is people scrutinizing him for one bad song, saying things like he will “burn in heel for this”. Expecting any artist to only produce perfect and impeccable content is a recipe for disappointment. As talented as LMM is, it’s impossible for him to get it every time.

[@EastmanEditing]

It's like some people were waiting for him to fail at something...and I use the word "fail" very, very loosely. Simply because they were personally tired of seeing him, or they personally didn't understand all the "hype" around Hamilton, so they now have ammo to use as "proof" that LMM isn't anything special.

[@LunaWitcherArt]

I don't blame Lin-Manuel Miranda, I blame Disney. More and more the company seems to ruin everything that they touch. Like, the layering of different motifs? That's something that I associate with Lin-Manuel and it isn't bad when I recognize it. But every creative advertised by Disney in a project recently has become a parody of themselves, and you can see that by how good you said Tick, Tick... BOOM! was compared to his parts in Disney projects. I believe he could have made Encanto way better if he wasn't being rushed to produce this movie's soundtrack entirely remotely. Disney is trying to just replay their same hits with no thought behind them, they want the least work possible to go into new projects so they can have the biggest profit. "Look, here's our collection of little monkeys: this one can compose and rap and is POC but not black! This one is very popular right now and IS black, but light-skinned, so we can advertise them as inclusion in the project! These ones wanted to make a greater movie than they did before, but we needed the movie to release before Christmas, so we made them rush it; if they are so great, they can work faster, right? Now Pixar will be the only thing that we even let have new IP's, while we milk Marvel for everything that they're worth and even what they're not!" like c'mon. The last thing I saw from Disney that actually made me feel like it was both NEW and GOOD was Red. And I'm sure there was a lot of fighting during production to make it so, because there was also a lot of fighting for Luisa to have muscles and a deeper voice, and there's always a fight (followed by Disney's boot stomping on the production team) when it comes to LGBTQIA+ representation. They have enough power and influence to change the way things are, to make kids movies with better representation, to fund indie projects that try something new, to use practical effects instead of CGI everything and to set a good standard of pay for every crew and production team they employ BESIDES the big name actors. But they don't, because they just want more money and more loyal fans that will pay for anything Disney. And everything does and will suffer for it.

[@originaozz]

Man I don't think he can fit every politically correct things into his works though. Hamilton is a time piece for an optimistic time and it did open up the conversation for blind castings in Hollywood, so there were good things out of it mix in with not. I feel like the bullying can feel just mean sometimes. Many decisions in a film are made by higher level positions and Disney live actions will always be tacky (sorry not sorry) cause you are comparing it to masterpieces. Just better not support it entirely to not be disappoint and help run that souless machine. Bullying the people who made it will not change how it's made.

[@sonny1524]

I agree with this sentiment. I also think that criticism doesn’t provoke change on its own but that suggestions for the future, delivered respectfully on what to be improved and giving motivation for the resolve and action to do it, do.

[@Chris-ot9bk]

not everything can be 100% politically correct, and a lot of people (mostly americans) don't realized that. In a perfect world, that would work, but there's a lot of factors and the wrong people adding "PC" culture into media are not the people that should be writing these stories. Look at the Little Mermaid. They got rid of a really well known line that wasn't problematic, and that pissed a lot of people off, and of course, Halle Bailey being Ariel sparked a lot of outrage. I don't think casting Halle was a PC move, because minorities are not political correct. Minorities are people, and shouldn't have to get hate for existing, but we live in a world where we're hated for existing. Halle is an amazing singer and I saw her as Ariel, but the thing with Disney is that they barely create any original movies anymore, and they also have a tendency to try and pretend like they care about politically correctness, but only does dumb shit like making a small minor character gay which offends both the right and the left. The best thing would've been casting Halle as her own princess. She's phenomenal and nobody would have a problem with her as a new princess, in fact, it would've made Disney more well-liked. But the problem is that because a lot of Americans hate anything politically correct (aka minorities, which shouldn't be political) and a lot of Americans wanting PC culture everything, and Disney being dumbasses that always backtracks, they make dumb decisions for money and then try and correct whatever they did. Changing Ariel's appearance in general was a dumb decision, because Ariel isn't some random character. Ariel is a well known, beloved figure in Disney, and any change would've pissed people off. And sadly, a lot of the hate was racism. This is what happens when companies like Disney tries to be "PC" when they are not. They don't give minorities fleshed out characters, or stories that we can relate to, but they make white character black and hope nobody will say anything, which is obviously not true. The correct way of PC is embracing and creating and sharing stories of POC, LGBTQ+ and/or Women instead of writing characters for the sole purpose that people on twitter would be happy while also being on republican's good side because Disney is really right wing, but pretends to be left wing. Some companies are good at this, Pixar is a great example, but forcing companies like Disney that does not care about "PC" culture will only make things worst.

[@ellencoleman4604]

I honestly despise the hate directed towrds Lin Manuel Miranda even as someone who only knows about him through internet culture. It's the attitude of 'if your not going to be a perfect specimen of a human being who makes completely perfect content at all times your a terrible person.' It makes me angry because his work has clearly had a hugely positive effect on poc representation in musicals. So many people have an inability to grasp that progress is only achieved by working within the flawed system that actually exists, and not the idealised one that they want. By being so uncompromising these people are actively harming the causes they fight so venemently for. Why focus so much anger on the guy whose trying to improve things instead of the hundreds of people in the industry who aren't? It only discourages others from approaching controversial topics - it actively encourages issues to be swept under the rug and forgotten. If your parents told you that your projects and passions were awful, would it make you a better person? If a teacher spent all their time pointing out every 'problematic' thing in your friend's art, would that encourage you to show them yours? Does it make you happy to spend all your time looking for the worst in other people? Seperate to the above, a huge part of the problem comes from treating people like they're special because there's a lot of videos of them on the internet. He's just a guy who's good at writing successful musicals, so he keeps being hired to write more. Good for him. I hope I can get lucky and achieve my dreams like he did. I hope others who want to write musicals learn from his successes and failures. Maybe he might mentor people he works with and we'll see another person output some good music in the future. That's all we can really hope for.

[@diannagarten5861]

A lot of valid criticisms to be made, but I will say even though he isn't the most talented performer, if you've seen the man live, he has CHARISMA!!! Despite his shortcomings I've found him to be a weirdly magnetic performer.

[@hind__]

I'm glad Kayla brought it up very briefly and I'm not sure why people are glossing over it. Very hard to like LMM when he was such a heavy proponent for PROMESA, a bill that introduced intense budgetary cuts to Puerto Rican infastructure. It resulted in many schools closing, the privatization of electricity (this was same year Hurricane Dorian happened, when many people were displaced and most of Puerto Rico had no electricity), and the reduction and sometimes even entire shutdown of vacation/sick leave/etc. I think it'd do people well to look this up and read up on it about it, and how much people in Puerto Rico protested his Hamilton production being performed there. I'm not one to say you can't enjoy his work, I really liked Tick Tick Boom a lot personally, I don't care about his existence specifically or have any particular thought aside from "this guy is kind of weird" but way too many people in the comments act like he's faultless when a lot of people (especially Puerto Ricans and POC, bc oh boy the amount of white theater kids trying to defend Hamilton and them crossing over into microaggressions AT BEST bc of how intensely they defend him mild criticism is genuinely such an issue.....even if it is admittedly not something that is HIS fault) are justified in disliking him. edit: entire chunk of a sentence was missing lol

[@desdar100]

The big issue is that this was never the case. Because of how often it's been repeated people think that he's the proprietor of the promesa bill when a simple Google search shows that he was not. Promesa only came about because Sean Duffy and his Republican cohorts forced it into existence via a compromise and the Mirandas had nothing to do with it. Despite this you'll find several far-left articles claiming that they did in fact come up with it despite showing no evidence to the contrary

[@LeonBes]

The amount of people in the responses outright ignoring the whole "LMM aggressively advocated for a bill that has directly been responsible for public services having their budgets slashed in Puerto Rico while Wall Street continues to profit off the people's misery" is very telling, but sadly not that surprising.

[@chrissmarie455]

It hurts to admit is since I do admire his extreme talent but you really can’t turn a blind eye. Promesa has really effed up PR.

[@laurtheonly4980]

I totally see what you’re saying, but I think it’s also unfair to hold him to the standard of inner governmental workings. Puerto Rico was in massive debt and that bill was supposed to stop money flowing out to big banks in the mainland because of tax exempt bonds. The bonds required payment before anything else and the terms were choking the economy. The fact that the people placed in charge still made sure the financial markets got theirs isn’t his fault

[@locke325]

was looking to see if someone already wrote all this so i wouldn't, lol thank you

[@Phobie_2008]

Never understood how people hate this guy, I really enjoy his style. I literally adore everything he’s done, maybe I’m just a fanboy or easy to please? I think he’s really talented and is very capable of writing something other than rap. But I do agree that The Scuttlebutt is a very.. interesting song. My favorite ice cream flavor is Cookies N’ Cream btw.

[@hectornerioiv4069]

Honestly tho I hav heard kids like it and I think that is the purpose of the song which is for kids

[@aintgonnaletuknow5758]

its so good didnt expect myself to enjoy this musical style but here i am cant get put

[@estherbalogun8092]

@@hectornerioiv4069right! People are being a big too harsh on the song like we’re not even the main demographic lol

[@Agent160FTW]

Interesting video. Personally I've always been a big fan of Lin-Manuel Miranda, maybe because I recognize myself a lot in the childish enthusiasm he obviously has when it comes to Musicals and Disney. I like that he is a total geek and I think he has a lot of talent, especially as a writer and composer, but also as a director because I think Tick Tick Boom is perfection and the best thing he's done. I've been at points obsessed with both Hamilton and In the Heights (I'm not as obsessed now, but I still like both musicals a lot and Hamilton still at least remains among my top 10 favorite musicals, but I'm uncertain of placement among that top ten) and I do think he seems generally wellmeaning and just a cool person. With that said I do think his love of the business he's in makes him say yes a little too often and I do think he spreads himself too thin, which explain how many are getting Lin-Manuel Miranda-fatigue. And I do think the thought "can't you use your forces for good instead of evil" in some cases (like with the Scuttlebug or with how he didn't just composed the songs for Vivo, but also had voiced the lead character, as some examples), because I like most of his music, but there are some songs of him that sucks and are too on the nose, because they sound very Lin-Manuel Miranda, but in the wrong way. With that said I'm still quite a big fan of his and while I did find his voice a bit annoying in Vivo, I generally kind of like Lin-Manuel's voice because I think it has personality and is unique and a part of me finds that quality more interesting than a generically pretty voice. So yeah, some thoughts and reflections from a fangirl still.

[@desdar100]

Ironically, Vivo was supposed to be a vehicle for him buy DreamWorks. The Creator Behind The Book of Life, commented Howell DreamWorks became really invested in lmm after word started to spread about In The Heights on Broadway. They at one point or even trying to get the guy to make an animated version of that musical before settling on Vivo

[@StayHappyDanny]

Lin is the epitome of “I am cringe and that is based. I will never be based and that is not cringe…. I don’t want to be anyone but me.” And I Stan that so hard he’s good at writing music and is trying his best yall but idfk I’m a stranger on the internet tear me a new one if you want lol

[@juanrocollazo]

Lin-Manuel Miranda has become very controversial for Puerto Ricans, especially after 2017. I'll give some more context for the PROMESA act controversy. He's descended from Puerto Ricans but born and raised in the US, which already puts him in a strange position in regards to Puerto Rican culture. But then he tried to get very involved with our politics and supported a federal body that was assignee to handle our financial debt at the cost of cutting funds for TONS of public services. Things have become more precarious for us because of all the funds that have been cut because of the Fiscal Supervision Board established by PROMESA, and LMM supported that without a second thought. Before that controversy calmed down, Hurricanes Irma and María passed through the island and destabilized us inmensely. LMM decided to unite many Puerto Rican musicians and do a kinda cringe song mentioning the names of our towns and called that support, but never came to the island, never seemed to actively do something to provide support during recovery. It seemed like he used his Latino heritage as a way to promote his image and work but never seemed to actually do something to support Latinos with his fame and money. That, and everything else mentioned in this video regarding him as an artist, has made him very controversial in Puerto Rico and Latino culture.

[@desdar100]

The issue is that he never advocated for the bill but just debt relief for the island in general. Back to his original New York Times article you can see how he goes into the issues Puerto Rico was facing, but Paul Ryan and Sean Duffy were the ones who forced the bill into action. I do understand the idea of nicaraguans speaking on the behalf of natives, but he was the only guy trying to push for something to happen with Puerto Rico when most didn't give a flip about it

[@QueenSelene88]

​@@desdar100 he and his father's foundation keeps doing harm to Puerto Rico and its people. They care more about recognition and money than us.

[@desdar100]

@@QueenSelene88 this all started because people asserted and now believe that they're the ones behind the Promesa. Many articles assert that Miranda is the one that caused the bill to exist but that's not true at all

[@joghissing4634]

Im sure he didnt meant too but he probabbly did bc his understandment about how things are there is very surfaced level :( still he did harm,

[@QueenSelene88]

@@joghissing4634 his parent is part of the Puertorrican Parade, and also part of other Latino organizations too. It's more about not caring really about his own people.

[@ClaytonGoldhawk]

Suprised Vivo was left out. It was a prime example of his music style being overused in a movie. It's a shame as when he diverts from that style in the movie, it comes out with some really beautiful songs. Like all 2 of the Gloria Estafan songs are amazing (which the fact that there are only 2 is a shame in itself).

[@smithmarina970]

I don’t feel like its him not wanting to get out of the style as the machine wanting to guarantee a hit with whats known,and also giving him time to explore and do new things and collaborate with new people. I love the mariposa song in encanto for example.

[@desdar100]

The thing about Vivo is that it was initially pinned as a vehicle for lin-manuel by DreamWorks to capitalize on the success of in the Heights. It was always meant to sort of be a major endorsement

[@expressivekim]

Disney has a long history of finding a composer they like and using them throughout an entire era of film (especially for their animated properties) as it gives the films a certain consistency for the audience. They also have a bad habit of thinking "this worked once and made us a lot of money, let's just keep doing that until it stops making us money". That being said, many of the composers and lyricists that became household names during the nineties for their work on Disney movies had a much larger range than Lin Manuel Miranda in my opinion. Everything he does is very similar in style, which makes it harder to mesh across so many different stories at Disney without it feeling boring or overused.

[@desdar100]

TBH, by the time the 2000s, came along a lot of the Disney Renaissance no was seen as played out by the masses. That's why Shrek blew up so much because it was the exact antithesis of Disney, and took animation in a radically different direction

[@SizzlingVibe]

I think Broadway people deserve more recognition in general, and while I appreciate people grabbing onto Lin, there are many other talented Broadway singers, musicians, and songwriters that could also be utilized. One guy doesn’t make up the entire theatre community.

[@ronoc9]

Fav flav: Chocolate (though I do like a good Bubblegum). I think LMM got cast as the Theatre Nerd Done Good and with his wholesome-ish image it can be easy pickings for the Hot Takes ecosystem, where snark and rallying calls get attention. I don't think he's perfect and I think he's walked into some of this but he's sort of like Ed Sheeran; he's good but he's not going to surprise you.

[@tysonatua6671]

I think a better way to put that last sentence is “They have enough skills, and had the right opportunity offered at the right time” they’re definitely good in their own right but wouldn’t be any different to anyone else NOW, if they missed certain opportunities offered at an earlier time.

[@Jess-jl2tx]

yes it's definitely this!

[@missybarbour6885]

People just really hate theater kids lol

[@solarmoth4628]

In the heights whitewashing a real community really highlights Lin Manuel Miranda’s dubious politics as does Hamilton. Not that I don’t appreciate the songs out of nostalgia but I’ve feel like we’ve outgrown Lin’s politics. Also I feel like disney has grown to saturated with his music. It’s not that he can’t compose it’s just too much in a short period of time.

[@desdar100]

The thing is that liberalism is the default politics of Hollywood and if Pedro Pascal is anything to go by, people are very much still into it. I feel like people on the internet are quick to jump on somebody and have them be defined by their mistakes until the shoe's on the other foot

[@LeonBes]

LMM is the neoliberal poster boy of "Latinidad." He's all about general pride in being Latino and # ImmigrantsWeGetTheJobDone, but looking back at it, his politics have always left much to be desired and he's quite frankly useless when it comes to real liberation and solidarity. I say all of this as somebody that fell in love with In the Heights during its Broadway run, spent years singing along to the cast recording, and did eventually watch the movie (which was indeed a colorist mess). In the Heights will always hold a place in my heart out of sheer nostalgia, but we are way past the need of LMM as some sort of cultural leader.

[@QueenSelene88]

​@@LeonBes remembering that he sacrificed his own people,the Puertorricans, just to be in Obama's good side. Ugh😓

[@desdar100]

@@LeonBes I think this is a weird way of thinking. The idea that Miranda isn't a good form of representation because he's not trying to car some sort of Anarchy among the people is sort of short-sighted and silly. He gave an opportunity to people when literally no one else was, and did so after so many attempted to and failed. Just because one form of representation doesn't hit right with you doesn't mean that it is invalid

[@catgonzalez6979]

As someone who is Latinx and was a cringe Hamilton fan, I think my biggest issue is that often Lin is asked to speak on behalf of the entire community. Like every time I see mainstream discourse about Puerto Rico, he’s involved. His voice is influential so I understand that he’s involved, i just want more diversity of opinions on Hispanic issues. Being “Disney’s guy” is great for him, but (although I will always love Disney) they are a mega corporation that don’t have the communities best interests at heart. I will always have a soft spot for the original in the heights production that amplified multiple stories from our community and critically reflected more than his future projects. Becoming mainstream means that he can’t really criticize important issues like tokenism, capitalism, or institutional systems. Look at Hamilton- they had to remove the BANGERS congratulations and first burn version because when your audience is Disney and broadway elites, committing to critical ideas can make broader audiences uncomfortable. And then they can’t make money off of you!! So dont examine the violent crimes and misdoings of the founding fathers,, be quirky and relatable instead!! Lin is honestly a good artist- I can love him and think he’s cringe and want more depth from him . Most of all, I want him to take care of himself. These corporations like him when he’s making money and complying. When he’s being an artist and honouring himself, we get good shit like tick tick boom. More of that please :)

[@PodcArne]

You lost me at “latinx”

[@moniquep5851]

LMM is THE genius of our generation. He singlehandedly revived Broadway and brought it into the 21st century. He has started the careers of many actors that were pigeonholed prior to now and is a hero to MANY nonprofit organizations. I'll never hate him or be "out of love" just because not every single song is a miraculous hit.

[@dontnerfmebro8052]

THE genius? Seriously? I don't hate the guy, but can you unwrap your lips from his shaft a little? No one will remember him in 50 years, much less a hundred. We can't say who will be the genius of our generation, because it isn't until we see which works last the test of time, and continue to resonate with people even decades or centuries in the future. Youre seriously telling me people are going to be rapping Alexander Hamilton in 3452? Mfer ain't Mozart.

[@Jill-ed7ev]

@@dontnerfmebro8052 So according to you we cannot possibly know who will be remembered in the future, but you also claim with 100% certainty LMM or Hamilton won't be remembered in 50 years? Not arguing for or against either possibility, frankly I don't really care, but isn't that a little hypocritical?

[@ryanatkinson8757]

​@@dontnerfmebro8052 Hamilton died in 1804, yet we're still talking about him, right? Yet, the guy who created the biggest Broadway play of the era will be forgotten?

[@wetsock7790]

Honestly hamilton is at times... too good. I know this is a ridiculous critique but it's in my head whenever i come back to the musical. The rapping parts are structured in a way that reminds me of those rappers that say they're gonna end ,,mumble rap". Its fitting 50 words in one line and everything rhymes and thats... cool but theres not much of a recognizable flow. Or a rhytm. Idk its just not what i personally like in rap music. I have the same problem with the rest of his work

[@mareebee7046]

Honestly I love lin me and my entire family do. Lol he’s just a crazy genius and you really can’t be mad at that when imo, mainly everything he creates is a banger and I personally love it! Especially as a music lover and how Hamilton changed my perspective of good music so I owe a lot. I didn’t know people felt this way about him and it hurts my heart

[@thisisnancybot]

As someone who has enjoyed many of LMM's works (Hamilton, Tick Tick Boom, Encanto, Moana) but has passed on the weaker projects you mentioned here, I feel like I've made good choices. And that's probably how I will approach his projects in the future. Like any creator, he's going to have his hits and misses, and I feel like his hits are genuinely entertaining.

[@SansDemStrings]

Every performer, regardless of type, will have peaks and valleys. I avoided In the Heights at first because I saw some earlier acting stints of LMM and found those cringey. Then, after listening to Hamilton, I went back and found appreciation for In thd Heights. He also stated that he is focusing more on his family now, so it's easy to see how we're in a valley. Alan Menken, composer of all our favorite Disney Renaissance tunes, steals from himself tons, and that also annoys me to no end. The spotlight probably lingered just a bit too long, and so we have seen the downshift from LMM's most recent peak into a valley. Hopefully, he steps back more for a little while so he can regroup and come out with something else we can appreciate. I think this age of everything can be instantly shared lends to us forgetting that other performers also went through cringey periods it just wasnt everywhere to be seen. My favorite ice cream flavor is peanut butter cookie dough. 😊

[@LeonBes]

I understand that this isn't common knowledge outside of the Puerto Rican community, but LMM is indeed hated among many of us for being a very vocal advocate of the PROMESA act, which was ostensibly meant to "help" Puerto Rico sort out its debt. In true American imperial fashion, we were imposed a "financial oversight board" a.k.a. a literal junta to control the finances of the island. This junta is, not surprisingly, gutting all our public institutions and services through austerity measures in order to pay off Wall Street vulture funds. LMM's response when people call out his very, VERY publicly advocacy for PROMESA's passage has basically been to sheepishly shrug his shoulders and admit that maybe it wasn't the best idea. Pendejo.

[@desdar100]

It should be noted that he was not the one who created or had a say in the bill. The only thing he did was just push for the idea of a relief bill and everything that promesa caused was attributed by House Republicans forcing a do this or nothing situation and the Democrats and independents yielding

[@MysticOceanDollies]

I myself am Cuban, but I often feel like he only uses his Hispanic/Caribbean heritage for points rather than actually caring. I was pretty annoyed when he put himself as the main character in a movie he made based on Cuban culture and music. Sure, Puerto Ricans and Cubans have a couple similarities, but it just didn’t sit right with me. I’m just glad he didn’t touch on Cuban politics as I know he would have butchered it completely knowing what his views are and how he probably wouldn’t listen to the experiences of the Cuban people.

[@desdar100]

@@MysticOceanDollies you mean vivo? That wasn't his idea, but one that DreamWorks came up with and just casted him because he he was a hot item.

[@poisonarrow658]

I wouldn't hate scuttlebutt so much if it stopped at the "huddle up, buttercup" part. Whenever I hear someone say "let's go, let's go, let's go" I know it is this man CRUTCHES ruining something with potential 😅

[@merri-toddwebster2473]

I feel like LM wrote Hamilton to say, "The revered Founding Fathers were real people from diverse backgrounds who had stomach problems and screwed up Just Like Us," only the takeaway for a lot of (white) people was, "Wow, the Founding Fathers were way cooler than I thought!" And chocolate is my favorite ice cream flavor.

[@faesforest]

honestly, In The Heights is my favorite work by LMM. especially for those of us in the Latino community, sure it has things that can be debated over (like everything else), but it has a lot of resonance in many ways and the music is gorgeous. The original recording is super underappreciated.

[@missybarbour6885]

LMM isn't annoying, he's just goofy and some people can't stand that, idk why ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@GothVampiress]

i remember watching the white house hamilton performance the day after it came out in, what, 2010, 2011? it's weird because at the time (and you can see in the clip) we all regarded it as a comedy. the dissonance was the joke. and i feel like hamilton would have aged a lot better if it stayed just a bit more tongue-in-cheek rather than being as earnest as it is.

[@desdar100]

It is, but because it became such a juggernaut people left-leaning Circle started to view it far more critically

[@missybarbour6885]

I feel like LMM is pretty self aware about how goofy he is, but his work has some really earnest moments, so people who hate goofiness or earnestness just point and go "look, that loser thinks he's so cool" which... I don't think he does lol

[@jstir6437]

About 6 years ago, a project that I helped start picked off the ground and eventually Lin Manuel Miranda got involved with it. As a middle schooler who was a HUGE Hamilton fan at the time, this was one of the most incredible things that ever happened to me. I know that my opinion of Lin can’t be unbiased because of this, but I think that the problems surrounding him are more a product of how exposed and overused he is, rather than any personal fault of his.

[@BrianLeeTrades]

While watching the video I actually didn't see much wrong with what LMM accomplished or how he handled any of the situations. He definitely had some constraints in some creative pursuits and it's hard to put the full force of your passion behind projects you're giving voice to as a creative, but not from the perspective of the creator. I agree with a lot of the comments regarding his talent showing whenever he's doing something that is a natural blend of his talent and voice. Tik Tik Boom was amazing btw and I'm glad you just included it lmao!

[@sarahsapphire2325]

Honestly, I didn't know him as the "Hamilton" guy, I knew him as the "Electric Company" rap guy from the pbs kids show. "Hard and soft C" and "hard and soft G" are two examples and are here on KZbin if you want to see. I didn't know his name in the show though, he was just the funky rap guy. I didn't connect the two as the same person until after someone showed me a picture of the guy and I thought he looked weirdly familiar. My sister didn't believe me until we looked it up, and it was very weird revisiting that.

[@umokayig]

Oh hey, I made an appearance 😂😂 I do the impression though cause its fun, I admire Lin, people like it, and I have other accounts for the other stuff I do (performing, other voices, etc.); because, as much as I would like to keep all of it on one account, anything that's not the Lin impression doesn't do well on TikTok rip anyways, love the video essays. keep them up

[@WibblyWobblyEtc]

Yeah Hamilton was always a bit of an out there concept and was always kinda problematic, but I can also completely see the earnest intention behind it. I do think intention matters, although of course I understand that effect and repercussions outweigh it. Those who find Hamilton offensive certainly aren't wrong for feeling that way, but it WAS made by a politically engaged POC to directly challenge white-centric storytelling and white supremacy in the USA, and plenty of his peers who were also POC saw his vision for it and were proudly involved. That wasn't wrong either, imo. I think overall Lin's work since Hamilton has been pretty damn good. Tick Tick Boom was, as you said, fantastic. In The Heights (film) was really good too. Moana is one of my all time favourites and is flawless imo. Encanto didn't do a lot for me as a film but the music was the best part. TLM, though... was definitely a drop in quality. Honestly I didn't really mind Scuttlebutt - I wouldn't play it as a song to listen to, but it seemed like a silly harmless scene to keep the vibes fun for the younger audience to me - but overall the changes to the score and songs just didn't really gel that well for me. Maybe Lin needs to step away from Disney and come back refreshed. I like ice cream that has fun bits in it like fudge chunks or cookie dough or pecans. Basically Ben and Jerry's style. Lucky for me they do a bunch of vegan flavours!

[@terraguttierez2996]

Lin Muel Mirandas singing isnt bad, its not like its classically amazing, but for Hamilton , i think it was amazing. His voice is very recognizable and unique. theres nothing really wrong with his voice. He carries his tune right, maybe sometimes alittle bit too rhaspy but whats most important is that he always conveys his personality when he sings.

[@pippinnnn]

Hamilton around its release was what catapulted me into the realm of acting, broadway, and musical theatre. It also was part of what made me actually touch my identity as a cuban-venezuelan child of immigrants. The fact it was a historical piece got me into history as well, and all of these subjects are now very important to me today. Today i’m now a professional theatrical costumer specializing in historical productions, and a few months ago costumed the world premier of an opera about Chinese-American immigrants following the Expulsion act in 1885. I’m graduating from my art school with a major in technical theatre next year. I’m only seventeen. None of this would have happened if i hadnt listened to Hamilton on a long car ride when i was, like, twelve. Thing is, i’m not really a fan of it anymore. It served its purpose for me in that time, like you said- being the Obama and early Trump era, but now i’ve moved onto other things.

[@ChronischBi]

I think Lin is a bit cringe but I think that a lot of 30 or 40 + people are getting the label cringe just because theyre existing. Are there things that he could have done better yeah definitely, did he make masterpieces also yes. Plus I think he's getting blamed for a lot creative choices he didn't personally make. My fave ice cream was cookie dough, but I've just Found out I am gluten intolerant so now i eat a lot of mango sorbe.

[@DarkRelm22]

Okay I hear you, but Scuttlebutt sounds like another in a line of mistakes and Disney forgetting what made them good. They just care about the money, so they got the Hamilton/Moana/Encanto guy to "do his thing" probably with very little time for fixing. He got a bill passed to help Puerto Rico and a bunch of lawmakers fucked it up. He didn't have dark-skinned latinos in a story he wrote loosely off his own life as a not-extremely dark skinned latino man, in a musical that never had that really to begin with. Moana was a success, Encanto was a success, even if it had poor writing which he had *no* say in, and to my understanding the biggest complaint is that... the man has a style as a hip-hop rap musician and everyone's really mad about it because he.... *checks notes* Writes. In. His. Style. That's like saying "Jeez Picasso! Paint a Da Vinci every now and again why don't you". To be clear, before I get crucified by the internet, this is about the points you addressed others making. There are genuinely good points to be made here. But I feel like this became really negative really fast for others using his name and work to do dumb stuff. Also, we all knew the remakes were going to be trash after the Lion King, cmon guys, quit acting like they only *just* became bad??? I love the actress they chose, her part of your world clip I saw sounded amazing, but I knew it was still going to flop because disney forgot who they were, the magic of music and art that made them popular.

[@oldestdreamja]

LMM is pretty great. I've only know about two of his works; encanto and hamilton, and ngl- it is it's own style. i think I'll never get tired of hamilton songs

[@thompsonnoel]

I feel like the thing with Encanto is that it's based on South American magical realism and it's unlike most US movies structurally. It's only plot-thin by the US' plot heavy standards. If you read 100 years of solitude plot is the last thing in Gabriel García Marquez's mind

[@samanthadelavega5211]

I don´t wanna be a hater, you´re totally entitled to your opinion, and it´s grat that you took the time and work to do this video; but I think when you say "Encanto is a movie that is very much inspired by Latin culture and tradition so Miranda´s influence in the music makes a lot of natural sense "(10:15) it´s a very white thing to say, as a mexican I can tell you that there is no such thing as latin culture, there´s a big difference between Puerto Rico (Lin-Manuel´s origins) and Colombia (where Encanto takes place), from the way they talk, the words they use, the food they eat, the clothes they wear the weather, everything is different, so to think that because he has puertorican family it was easier for him to compose encanto´s music is racist, cause he took the time to understand and study colombian music, that was not given by his "blood".

[@ashton1860]

Also worth mentioning - hiring talented composers from Broadway is a bit of a 'return to form' for Disney - them getting Menken and Ashman precipitated the 'Disney Renaissance' which is also the era in which most of these live-action remakes were originally released. On paper, the move of employing a 1. successful Broadway composer who is ALSO 2. young, in touch with modern music, and offers diverse perspectives SEEMS TO ME like a winning (and laudable) choice from Disney. Especially as their choices recently seem risk-averse to a fault - an obsession with 'doing what has worked' that's so intense that all that seems to happen is stale, heartless live-action remakes. And when these stale remakes tend to contain PoC window-dressing (another interesting topic) - I think it's important in the discourse to notice when that shade and internet zealotry is directed at those PoC who are brought in. Like is it moral/ethical that Disney profited off the culture war that was started by hiring a black actress for TLM? Is it fair that the actress they brought on now has to deal with that ire? Hmm.

[@TheCanderemy]

Just to add, I think LMM's vocal performance in Hamilton as Alexander adds another layer to the storytelling and fits the character so well and what he represents. Even Lin has acknowledged that he isnt very good 😂