Kazama Oil Pan Baffle Test Results - Toyota GR86

[@patmickelson]

Thanks!

[@TheBTRGarage]

Pat you the goat! Thanks!

[@patmickelson]

You're saving people a lot of money, time, and effort with content like this. We owe it to you. On another topic, have you decided on your preferred pressure for the RE71RS yet? I'll learn more this weekend, but it seems like 39 is in the ballpark for 3.4* up front. I'm surprised it's that high though, and would like your opinion@@TheBTRGarage

[@TheBTRGarage]

@@patmickelson Thanks buddy! Not really, only had this past weekend and just used the PSI that I ran on the older RE71R's. I ran mine pretty low, fronts at 31 cold and rear at 29 cold. They were getting into high 30's hot on the abused side, depending what direction I was going. CVR is pretty harsh on tires.

[@martindeoliveira5128]

Pretty surprising results. Just goes to show how important design is. Appreciate all the effort you and other community members are putting into these tests

[@stephenschenider4007]

Why do you people keep thinking a baffle will fix this oil issue? No baffle ever will.

[@llevity]

This is an incredible demonstration of savvy and data collection and display techniques. Thank you so much for doing this!

[@TheBTRGarage]

Thank you! Glad to help.

[@moonunitdaily1445]

I was hoping for better results but thanks for doing this. Looks like I will just stay on low grip tires lol. Chasing that Camaro was worth the wait😀

[@TheBTRGarage]

As was I :( Always fun chasing big HP cars.

[@practicaldriver]

You are the MAN, thanks for sharing this useful data! I'm gonna run 1/2 quart overfill and not stress too much for track days.

[@TheBTRGarage]

Thanks buddy! Wish the results were more positive :(

[@japemyy2246]

Great content Justin! Thank you! I have been following your channel for a while. How about 1st gen BRZ/FRS, would you say that its safe to beat these on tracks without baffle if you just keep oil level full or half a quart over?

[@TheBTRGarage]

@@japemyy2246 The gen1 cars don't experience this issue that the gen2 cars have, gen2 cars seem to have a slightly different design. I think 900brz had a gen1 in his testing and it did not exhibit any bad behaviors. In other words, should be fine to send it 😁

[@hagenherrmann8204]

Thank you for further contributing to the data sets on this topic. It looks like the people from channel Ansix Auto have found a solution that (mostly) eliminates the pressure drops when pushing the car on track. I think they have that same accumulator you show at 8:54.

[@TheBTRGarage]

Yep, I was just hoping to not have to go that route since it introduces more cost and complexity.

[@sikrip]

Unfortunate results. Looks like accusump is the way to go, but this comes it's own shortcomings. A video explaining how to "operate" the accusump(ex. when to open/close the valve) would be very helpful for the community. Thanks for all your effort.

[@TheBTRGarage]

Indeed, I was hoping to not have to go the Accusump/oil accumulator route, but seems like that might be the safest option for high grip cars. I'll definitely put something together to share.

[@AlfredYap]

millions thanks. highly appreciate your test result. looking forward for other baffle test result. because accumulator doesnt seem like an ideal solution for us for daily drive our BRZ. Again thanks so much for your effort, keep up the good work

[@TheBTRGarage]

Welcome, glad to help! I daily drive my car so whatever solution works it will be DD capable.

[@artblackwood7936]

I'm not surprised with the results, but I am disappointed. Where a left had turn, pre-baffle, used to puddle what little oil was left in the sump towards the pick-up, the baffle trapped some oil away from the pick-up. There is just a miscalculation of the amount of oil the engine uses at higher rpms and how much would be/should be left in the pan. Apparently, there are quite a few cars that have the same issue. That's why stuff like Accusump exist. I don't know what it would look like, but it seems to me that a redesign of the oil pan could fix this problem. Thanks for doing this. As always, well done.

[@TheBTRGarage]

Yep, low oil pressure is not that uncommon. My TT BMW has low oil pressure issues in left hand turns and crests, Accusump on the way for that car too...

[@warrenlucier5796]

I watched an HP Academy (NZ) video on wet sump improvements for their GT86, which is a larger capacity truncated sump, built utilizing the factory oil sump. They designed it with the necessary items to control the oil to the pump pickup tube and added 2 additional oil drains from the heads to the lower portion of the sump. What they did is basically that which I've advised to those having this problem with oil control. The question is how much oil remains in the oil sump when the engine is running under various scenarios, as in where is all the oil; like in high G turns. The 5W40 is a move in the right direction, but an Accusump is only a band-aid not a cure for the problem. My advice is to help solve an issue you guys are having and I feel what I've mentioned will be the cure for it. Best on it.

[@TheBTRGarage]

HPA has a lot of good stuff! The oil drainage from the heads (or lack thereof) on the gen2 car surely seems to be a problem. It is even noticeable when checking the oil as it is almost always different each time I check. Anyways, that is a hard problem to fix, so yea the bandaids like Accusump seem to be about the best option right now.

[@warrenlucier5796]

@@TheBTRGarage They had problems with the oil gathering in the heads in the EJ engine series also, and they installed vent tubes in the top of the cam covers and vented catch cans to collect the oil.

[@lanfabfabrication8000]

Do you know the name of the video you watched i want to take a look at it

[@ramerm1]

Thanks for your efforts and for sharing, waiting for 5/40 results 😊

[@Ch3mG33k]

Yeah this aligns nicely with the results from other folks; the car simply doesn't have a good enough oiling system to handle very grippy tires.

[@02semiata]

that JR oil cooler is doing great. Those temps are amazing IMO ha. Even at those temps we don't see 10psi for every 1k rpm. I guess 45-50psi is safe enough

[@02semiata]

are you running the oem oil "cooler" and JR oil cooler together ?

[@TheBTRGarage]

@@02semiata Yes, the OEM heat exchange/cooler is still on the car. Without the JR oil cooler I had oil temps above 250* at this track, definitely a good idea to have an oil cooler!

[@02semiata]

@@TheBTRGarage thanks ! All going to plan I will have some oil pressure data with just the oem cooler. 240-250 are normally what I see in track temp wise

[@Julianklaus]

So in conclusion, togue runs, street driving and no tracking.

[@TheBTRGarage]

I wouldn't completely throw out track driving. The risk of a potential problem certainly increases when on track, more so with high grip tires. But, I've been tracking my car just like I did in this video for 1.5 years, lower grip tires and .5 quart over fill of 5w-30 or 5w-40 I think is a pretty low risk setup.

[@Julianklaus]

@@TheBTRGarage Good point. So it is fair to assume that with stickier rubbers and the vehicle dialed up for time attack an accusump is a must. For occasional tracking and PS4 tires, an oil cooler and heavier oil .5 quart over fill should be enough in warm Florida weather conditions correct?

[@TheBTRGarage]

@@Julianklaus Yea I would agree with that.

[@ktgmotorsports]

I was hoping for a different result, but thanks for doing this!!! Will stay tuned for the Accusump..

[@TheBTRGarage]

Me too, definitely a bummer :(

[@chrisa.3288]

And the plot thickens. Love nerding out on data. Sucks that the baffle cant do its job.

[@TheBTRGarage]

*Check out the other oil pressure testing videos below:* Baffle install : kzbin.info/www/bejne/g2qwqWd7orF7gqM Baseline Oil Pressure Testing : kzbin.info/www/bejne/m6HYgoGFfLueiJI Oil Pressure Logging Canyon Drive : kzbin.info/www/bejne/l165mJqdbKZ7qKs

[@ORG8]

All of these races just prove that the oil pressure drop is not an issue lowkey.

[@MFactoryTV]

Great video! Thanks for sharing all the data for the greater good. Just one small suggestion. The pronunciation of the baffle is ka-ZA-ma. Looking forward to the accusump be install and test!

[@TheBTRGarage]

Of course, wish I had better results! :( Thanks for pronunciation tip, I was trying to figure that out when I did the baffle install video, sounds like I got it wrong :p

[@moptoe]

I appreciate the oil pressure testing!

[@TheBTRGarage]

Thank you, you the goat!

[@xDAYSofDAZEx]

Thanks! Looking forward to the accusump results. Fingers crossed.

[@TheBTRGarage]

Thank you, and same here 😁

[@wangspeed]

Well… I guess I don’t need to pull my oil pan again. Great info here!

[@TheBTRGarage]

Glad it was helpful!

[@lojts]

Thanks for the work!

[@TheBTRGarage]

Thank you and you're welcome, glad to help!

[@atpgarageatl]

Thank you for doing this! It’s great seeing the community rally to find a solution. Would you recommend taking a stock GR86 to the track for the free NASA event that Toyota gives you?

[@TheBTRGarage]

Yes absolutely! Despite the oil pressure issues, the risk is of a potential problem as a result are still very low. Especially when the car is stock. My car had 8-9 track days and 65+ autox runs on it in near stock form.

[@atpgarageatl]

@@TheBTRGarage so the Michelin pilot tires that come on the premium aren’t too sticky?

[@TheBTRGarage]

@@atpgarageatl No, they are relatively slow compared to the "super 200tw" tires like the RE71RS. I was about 7 seconds slower per lap on the Michelin PS4 compared to the fast tire, at this same track.

[@atpgarageatl]

@@TheBTRGarage good to know! Thank you!

[@gregolas597]

@@TheBTRGarage damn 7 seconds?!

[@K03sport]

seems like the oil pick up location has to do more for pressure than baffling. it is almost as if there need to be 2 pickups vs the 1 in the center....I'm sure this is also comes with negatives but changing the pick up location or adding an additional pickup tube could help (I am not an engineer)....

[@cdsprech]

Great info Justin, thanks for sharing!

[@TheBTRGarage]

Glad to help!

[@DJHamilton]

My hypothesis is, the baffle is preventing the oil to get back to one side when turning. Thus creating an oil pressure drop. However, if you put a horizontal baffle in along with a .5 qt overfill. It’ll prevent the oil from going as upwards and the oil fill will allow for more oil to be picked up.

[@KevinWong_BRZ]

I agree with your initial statement. I think the real solution is not necessarily have a full wall from the TOP of the pan down but instead add wall(s) from the BOTTOM of the pan up but just enough to slow down flow left to right (as opposed to sealing off left to right) or even add slits to allow flow back and forth AND overfill. The key thing is to ensure the pickup is flooded with oil in all conditions. I suspect the full wall is actually reducing accessible volume of oil to the pickup in all conditions.

[@DJHamilton]

@@KevinWong_BRZ you sir are smarter than me. That makes complete sense and I agree with that. Hopefully a prototype gets made and tested.

[@KevinWong_BRZ]

Great video! Thanks for adding to the pile of publicly available information! What video software do you use to overlay the data?

[@TheBTRGarage]

Thanks! That's all done in the RaceChrono Pro mobile app, no video software needed. I have a separate data analysis video on the channel that goes over it.

[@MrMirofl]

thx for testing!

[@lucade7035]

Grazie mille from Italy !

[@quocanhphanho8969]

I saw a comment in a different video, and seems true tbh. Why is it that most of the complaints of this oil starvation issue come from the US, and not much from Japan?! There are a lot of GR86 videos at Tsukuba, with that famous right hand turn corner. But no complaints from Japan!?

[@TheBTRGarage]

Dunno, maybe more of these cars sold in the US so higher failure rate? Just a guess...

[@neildesai21]

What are your thoughts on deleting the OE water based cooler? Seems like a flow restriction and doesn’t cool anymore than an air based cooler would, but that’s just my theory

[@TheBTRGarage]

Couple people have tested that and it does seem to improve oil pressure a small bit. It has other side effects in that the oil does not warm to operating temperature as quickly and you do lose a small bit of cooling on the hot end.

[@VinRZ]

Love it man! I'm sorry again for getting you a dud product :(

[@TheBTRGarage]

Thanks, and no biggie, one less product that doesn't work that people don't need to waste money on :)

[@Wesley-ui3dw]

Great testing result! Do you plan to test it with other baffle like tomei one with 1L overfilled?

[@TheBTRGarage]

Not doing anymore baffle testing, so far nearly all the styles have been tested with no positive benefit. Going back to no baffle and will test 1L over fill.

[@Wesley-ui3dw]

@@TheBTRGarage the problem I see others overfilling oil is the car has big smoking issue at startup after first session of lap. Baffle is actually helping avoid smoking issue, it will have less blow by to the PCV. I still think tomei baffle (two layers horizontal) with 1L overfilled is helpful. Isn’t the gr86 cup car running 1L overfilled with baffle?

[@geraldjustprojects]

@@Wesley-ui3dw over filling and smoking is if you fill so much that it reaches the pistons. on startup it will smoke. no baffle will ever help this. blowby is a different issue. and nostreetracing has documented the tomei baffle too, and no benefit. GR86 cup does run a special baffle, but you cant buy those at the moment and its the ones that are welded onto the pan itself i think. so different design.

[@ak2112]

Good work done here. Thanks.

[@teeebagtomm]

I subscribed and liked! Im not tracking my car becuase there is no track where I live. (MAUI) I will have spirited drives up and down mountain. You think leaving it stock stock oil system ok?

[@TheBTRGarage]

Yes, stock is fine. I wouldn't worry about it all in that kind of driving condition.

[@camrongoodall]

Would you be willing to try out the Cusco baffle it's about the same price and works more so like traditional baffles with flaps keeping the oil from rising in the pan instead of on one side

[@woodstopavement]

Thank you for doing this, and sharing your results. Its got me wondering if 5w-40 and 1/2 overfill is necessary for Autocross on long / high grip courses like nationals? If so, is it okay to run 5w-40 oil and 1/2 overfill on the highway for a couple hours?

[@TheBTRGarage]

5w-30 or even 5w-20 is fine for autox I would think. The oil temps don't get that high, unless people were seeing high temps at Lincoln last month? I've only driven my gen1 cars at Lincoln and all of it was on high grip tires and OEM weight oil.

[@woodstopavement]

Thanks for the info. Have fun!

[@K03sport]

what about 5w-30 non-resource conserving oil? the numbers start out higher in the grade range and it stays in grade longer than resource conserving oil(s)

[@kevind_53]

Very informative 🚗💥💨🔥

[@ricepony33]

Put some of that Thicc Lucas oil in!

[@DocWalt]

Welp, that's disappointing. Thanks for testing!

[@TheBTRGarage]

Indeed :(

[@slowgr86]

I'm in the market for the 22/23 GR86/BRZ, I plan on daily driving it. I also wanted to track it like once or twice every couple of months. I was wondering if I was to remove the oil pan and take out the loose RTV and then install a baffle plate, would I be okay driving it without having to worry about it blowing up on me? I'm also thinking about installing a oil cooler as well.

[@JustinLaps]

Don't install a baffle, they don't work as this video clearly showed. Just add the oil cooler and you should be fine. If you're just tracking it casually and infrequently you could also just leave it stock. I ran my car hard on the track for over a year without issue, almost bone stock.

[@slowgr86]

@@JustinLaps do you think I should still drop the oil pan and look for RTV?

[@TheBTRGarage]

@@slowgr86 Oops I replied on my lapping account :) No, it's not really needed, tests have shown that RTV does not affect oil flow. See the first 900brz video he did where they tested it with cars on track.

[@slowgr86]

should I switch to a different oil instead of OW-20?

[@TheBTRGarage]

@@slowgr86 You can go to a 5w-30 weight oil, or maybe 5w-40. I would recommend adding an additional 1/2 quart over the max fill dot on the dip stick.

[@asuncionmaldonado3382]

What happen to go to basic. Like a high volume pump or different oil pan. What are the race car using.

[@saiyan2525]

Accusump might be the best solution 😢

[@TheBTRGarage]

Looking that way, was hoping to not have to go that route.

[@Caterisma]

So one major concern since this “problem” started is why is everyone trying to baffle it out I mean looking at the pickup tube and the harsh angle it’s cut up would indicate one side favored starvation like rotaries use the same style pan kind of but never have this issue and I’m pretty sure the gt86 used a flat pickup as well just a thought but who knows may help someone’s study probably the first thing I would do if I owned a gr is build or see if a gt pickup fits

[@TheBTRGarage]

Can't change the pickup without taking engine apart ☹️ The gen1 car does have a different design, and had its own issues. The gen2 seems to be improved design but now a different issue, that looks to be not directly related to the pickup itself, but something else.

[@Caterisma]

@@TheBTRGarage well if all these crazy baffle designs aren’t working it could be a thing worth looking into I mean idk what all got changed between fa20 and fa24 but a Subaru flat four is still a subaru flat four and they seem to continuously have oil problems could be a factory drain back a lack of baffling or a pickup that’s at a unrealistic angle or maybe even a pressure bypass that get forced open under a certain amount force

[@B-gh7md]

Searched everywhere but can’t find anything. How did the gr86 cup cars solve the oiling issues?

[@TheBTRGarage]

Supposedly, they have a different type of baffle, but not sure what else.

[@marccandrift]

GG time to sell

[@Pharaoh_The_Great]

It’s best to just swap out that motor and call it a day… a lot of drama with those FA24’s

[@TheBTRGarage]

Going strong for over 2 years, getting beat on all the time 🤷

[@gabrielmarin4593]

This is the only baffle you have tested on your own car right? I’ve seen other tests being performed but im forgetting who has performed tests on which baffles

[@TheBTRGarage]

Correct. There have been several different baffles tested by others, but as far as I know this is the first time a baffle with a vertical plate/trap door has been tested. The other flat baffles have proved to be ineffective as well.

[@gabrielmarin4593]

@@TheBTRGarage that’s a bummer I thought I had seen one that helped a little but did not completely solve the issue.

[@justcallmejefe]

Really great job with this video. Disappointing results, but that is unfortunately part of the process. Really should have been Kazama doing their own testing, but now I know to stay away from their products.

[@TheBTRGarage]

Thank you! Yea the results suck, was definitely punching air a lot after looking at the data :( On to the next test...

[@AngryAnon]

Would you say any of this is a concern if the car is being bought for street spirited driving? I’m considering buying one of the twins new as a daily, had a 2014 BRZ last year and test drove the new one and it was great.

[@juan2k999]

Unless you are pulling over a G consistently on the street.. zero concern.

[@moonunitdaily1445]

@@juan2k999 I have to agree. I've got 23000 miles on mine. Oil pan has never been off the car and half those miles are spirited driving in the mountains. About to put the 4th set of tires on it. Just stay low grip lol.

[@juan2k999]

@AngryAnon and also if something were to happen, car is stock... subaru/toyota should fix your car.

[@UnderTheIceburg]

No. This is only exhibiting as an issue for people who track their cars and are pushing sticky(ish) street tires to their limits. Even then, tons of people are tracking these cars exhibiting this behavior without issue although anecdotes of issues seem to be more common than they were for 1st gen cars which didn't exhibit it. But there is simply no street driving on public roads that you should be doing that pushes tires to this limit. And regular economy focused street tires probably won't have the necessary grip to exhibit this problem.

[@VinRZ]

Run a slightly thicker oil than 0w20 factory fill, and constantly check your oil level. This engine should be bullet proof on street.

[@rubenduran86]

Are you sure you didn’t get the samples backward. 😅😅 just checking

[@AlfredYap]

How about the Greddy Baffle plate? Would you be testing it?

[@TheBTRGarage]

It's been tested by others already and it didn't help at all, unfortunately.

[@AlfredYap]

@@TheBTRGarage which mean as of now, there is no baffle solution with positive test result.

[@TheBTRGarage]

@@AlfredYap that's correct. Over filling oil seems to be the easiest and most effective so far, but doesn't element the issue.

[@turbobros_online1561]

Dang!

[@PainDive1]

Kamaza should stop selling their garbage since it creates more reliability issues now with left-hand cornering. What a shame these pieces of shit won't even test their products before putting them on sale to make a quick buck and now people could be losing their 7000 dollars engine on left turns!

[@DJHamilton]

What about just a normal horizontal baffle?

[@VinRZ]

Doesn't work, can reference back to some of my videos.

[@TheBTRGarage]

Already proven ineffective by other testers in the community, unfortunately. :(

[@DJHamilton]

@@TheBTRGarage even with over fill?

[@DJHamilton]

@@VinRZ good stuff

[@tokiohotelsucks123]

Are you adding about 6 quarts total??

[@TheBTRGarage]

It's probably a little more than that with the oil cooler. Standard fill + 1qt for oil cooler + plus about half quart overfill.

[@tokiohotelsucks123]

@@TheBTRGarage thanks for the reply! Love your videos. do you drain ur oil cooler every oil change?

[@TheBTRGarage]

@@tokiohotelsucks123 No, just change the oil like normal. Most of the oil drains from the cooler/hoses with a regular change.

[@DeeOneLight]

First, the excessive RTV sealant in the oil strainer. Now, the drastic oil pressure drop under high lateral G! How ridiculous to have happened on a pure sports car platform. I wonder how Toyota was not able to catch these engineering faults earlier on and demand Subaru to fix them. This would never have happened if it was a 100% Toyota project. The fact that Subaru's culture of cutting corners to save cost has come back to bite them as now nobody will have faith in their engineering.

[@LoveLikeaHurricane]

waiting for toyota fan boys to say that toyota won't put a badge on anything that isn't reliable

[@appleorange34]

Thanks!

[@TheBTRGarage]

Thank you!

[@Scir81]

Thanks!

[@TheBTRGarage]

You the goat! Thank you!