KEEP MAKING INDIE GAMES - Inspiration for Artists & Indie Devs- Don't Listen to Jeff Vogel | RANT:30

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Well, here's another rant... This video started as a response to the blog post by Jeff Vogel entitled There are too Many Video Games: bottomfeeder.substack.com/p/t....
In this article, Jeff conflates the decline of society with the irresponsibility of the youth who decide to spend their time on indie game development. I argue the opposite. I think it's amazing that so many people are working on games and I think more should. Watch the video to fully hear my arguments.
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[@hectorpontos9038]

Im really liking the direction you have taken with your channel. Feel free to post more stuff like this

[@teksyndicate]

tell it on the mountain

[@andrearovenski]

Great video! The learning experience is #1 for everything! I try to just put deadlines and goals on myself just to get things done, even if they're not great, just so that I get motivated to gain the experience with building art.

[@MindstabThrull]

I think you can take away a good amount of how the article is written by this blurb that showed up on the stream: " .. (The GDC free lunch was lousy, but hey, it was free.)" At that point, I'm ready to grab the salt shaker and apply it to the entire article, because that entire comment is "you're doing it wrong" without giving any sort of indication what the problem was. Was the soup cold, was the lettuce wilted, the coffee was watered down...? If I were an editor I'd tell him to rewrite the entire thing.

[@deusxyz]

That GDC talk was one of my favorite. Thank you logan, really appreciate the effort (the thought) you put into these videos. Those are amazing words 'No one is going to understand your art, until you release it' Or maybe never at all! But we still need to follow through on these artistic urges :)

[@sighb0rg]

fantastic video that cuts through the increasingly toxic and cynical perspectives far too prevalent in the indie dev scene these days. thanks for this!

[@TheDoctorFlay]

I agree on every point. Lots of high quality devs learned their craft making simple mods that turned into games in their own right. Killing Floor started as a mod for UT2004 and is now on its second version of the commercial full game. The same devs learned a lot from their Ballistics Weapons and gore mod for UT2004. "Mere modding" provided solid foundations to then go on to create a full game with lots of loyal players, so they can earn a decent wage. Epic games hired lots of Unreal Tournament modders over time. They see the value in letting the gamers have the editor that is used to make the game, thus creating the next generation of devs familiar with how games go together.

[@SiimKuusik]

Man, I needed that. I don't know if I needed that 2 am in the morning, but still. I will go create now. Thanks Logan!

[@Nova7686]

I have had occasional drives to make a game throughout my life, back when RPG maker was new.. and now that unreal engine and unigen are a thing.. I really need to stop listening to others and just make something... take these ideas in my head and put them into something.. Thanks man, I needed to hear this!!

[@BassClefEly]

The people who used to work at Enron had "real" jobs. This idea of "real" jobs is based off the faulty premise that sticking to a more traditional route guarantees safety and security, but it can all go away due to factors beyond our control. We need to stop worrying about doing things the "right" way. Do what you love and fuck the rest.

[@ourDreamcatcher]

That line where Jeff writes, "most of them would not exist, including mine" stands out to me. Is the implication there that, if Jeff won the Powerball, he would cease making games? If so, that bums me out. I am happily willing to admit that folks trying to make atypical incomes is a symptom of a bigger problem, but a lot of creators create simply to create. Making money is a great bonus, but I like to think that a lot of the indie devs out there have that extra passion. They're (probably) not doing it because every other opportunity in their life fell through, or they couldn't hold a job, but because they want to. And if I can project a bit here, creating is not how I feed my kids. It *is* my kids. If someone wants to whittle down the meaning of that, or what my time or my life is worth, then we have to dig into Literally Older Than Written History philosophical discussions.

[@Jo-Heike]

As far as I understand Jeff is mostly talking about systemic issues, and more so complaining about the state of his country.

[@HaibaneRakka]

Logan your art is great! I have most of your albums on my phone and listen to them pretty regularly, even the older ones like Nitheren and Ear Slayer

[@Chriscantor89]

Awesome video! Do you have a gig outside of KZbin or are you still doing YT full-time? Thanks!

[@uscaremealotyt]

Logan seems to be a very kind and honest man. Rare. Metal punches your brain into place.

[@skystahley3707]

Thanks for what you do man, I appreciate your work.

[@motherfudger6664]

I remember magazine ads for Space Rogue, and I remember being interested at some point. Now I may check to see if it's in my DoxBox collection.

[@idklol4197]

i dont think i've ever heard a more generic indie video game title than Jumpster

[@Jewifer333x2]

Having a lot of indy games is good for the gaming community because it means you have a plethora of options available in terms of specific genres of games. I particularly like walking simulator horror games, such as conarium, painscreek killings, Vanishing of Ethan Carter, and Kona. They have such amazing storytelling methods.

[@hugoclarke3284]

Thanks for another awesome video

[@hugoclarke3284]

I'm amazed how this video is quite long and yet every line is gold.

[@seancallahan7390]

Yeah I wish I never found his twitter or blog. Made me lose all respect for the man.

[@jon5155]

I don't see any inaccuracies in Jeff's article.

[@gordoncameron8222]

Thanks for this video, interesting commentary. I do feel obligated to point out that Space Rogue was a pretty cool game (essentially 'Ultima meets Elite') released by Origin and mainly designed/programmed by Paul Neurath. It was part of Origin's second-tier non-Ultima lineup. Yeah, the box art sucked. (For some reason I'll never understand they switched to photo box art for a little while. Knights of Legend and Windwalker had the same style.) I'm a bit sad it has fallen into such obscurity, but that's how it goes.

[@effexon]

Thos big box pc games,books warhammer things in background give this video +9000 credibility.

[@aaronsperbeck1613]

Great video 👍

[@OPTERON_PRIME]

Thanks for the inspiration XD

[@holographicsol2747]

I agree and thank you man

[@MorningAndEveningStar]

Came to your channel for Elden Ring. Stayed for the socialism. God bless you, sir.

[@effexon]

I have a video idea: AAA vs indie title comparison: take one big title and compare it with similar concept indie title with perhaps A size team. eg battlefield 2042 vs Easy red 2

[@tobagganski343]

What are your reasons for using firefox? Thinking about switching.

[@dimitriid]

I think that just the fact that it isn't Chrome based and in fact the only popular browser that isn't Chrome based along with Safari (Which being only on Apple devices, negates the point of not being Chrome based anyway) is a good enough reason. Sure Google shares *some* of their secret sauce by making Chromium open source but the fact they maintain regular Chrome which isn't open source means that they want to have the appearance of being open source software while maintaining feature disparity that can eventually bring any possible competitor under their control. So the tl;dr version is as simple as this: Use Firefox if you don't want it to die and have a single entity control how we use the web and *many* future applications. I certainly don't trust Google to be the sole arbiter of web protocols overall.

[@teksyndicate]

The design is so much cleaner. It's safer, no Google tracking, open source (I know chrome is chromium, but Google bad lol), I could make a video, but it's easy to import content from chrome, give it a try.

[@tobagganski343]

​@@teksyndicate Ok cool! I'll give it a try.

[@0hgre]

Thanks, man!

[@OriTheFool]

Thank you.

[@patpro3481]

Great video. Godot will rule the game industry soon so we're all doomed

[@majestic8274]

How so? Is unreal and unity lacking nowadays? I’m genuinely wondering

[@Bahcorp]

It's time to create Potholes Simulator.

[@teksyndicate]

I legit said, "we need to make Pothole Filler," to someone today...

[@ihroladUA]

J Vogel has writing style, anyway. He is ironic.

[@motherfudger6664]

"Do not expect anyone to understand what you're doing" I've been saying this for decades in regards to underground music and really any art anywhere.

[@ErnestLingerfelt]

you have gone a long way from crimping cables hence the vid i just watch

[@negrastormentas2865]

"You should be out there, doing the jobs that I dont want to do! Thats the good thing for society, you see!" FFS

[@Marc_Wolfe]

the dream

[@Hchris101]

you're scaring me

[@reggieisnotadog4841]

I used to enjoy Jeff's blog when it was about making games, but he's become quite bitter as he's gotten older (despite having every success), and it's not interesting to read his increasingly angry rants.

[@Jo-Heike]

I feel like you misunderstood his article. Although, he really didn't do a good job making any clear points. Although, try reading some of the discussion in the comments.

[@johnjackson9767]

Vogel's absolutely correct, and he has the experience and data to back up his assertions.

[@Jo-Heike]

I am curious, what do you think Vogel is correct about. What is his point if you will?

[@furynotes]

There are indy games with ray tracing. I know ray tracing doesn't excite some people. If I wanted to make a indie game with raytracing. I can.

[@user-dn5bx2iu3e]

*anyone*, you mean. Shit you don't even sound exited about it.

[@gman1035]

You wouldn't last an hour even as a flagger let alone filling pot holes.

[@teksyndicate]

I used to do industrial construction in FL... mostly installing all that hurricane-proof glass. Those big windows weigh about a thousand lbs... so yeah, pot holes would be kinda boring.

[@gman1035]

@@teksyndicate I'll respect that an take filling pot holes over carrying that much weight.

[@user-dn5bx2iu3e]

KZbinr telling me to get a real job,... This better be clickbait. Edit: It was.

[@teksyndicate]

Even then, I've had 30+ real jobs including 12 hour security shifts, industrial construction, a stock company, etc. KZbin required the most work and stress so I'd call it a very real job... It's not filling potholes though lol. I've changed my format to reduce stress and it's been much better.

[@user-dn5bx2iu3e]

Fair. Personally I think having a "real job" is more about social norms than it is value or wealth, lots of people who have "normal jobs" spend their lives in debt to get there. (that is what I meant about the youtuber comment, as my folks and wife would be concerned about my future as its "not a real job") I think its more important to do meaningful work. So I agree with most of what you said. I worked for 27 billion dollar company doing the electrical equivalent of filling potholes and I consider it a self abusive betrayal of my ethics for which I was ultimately underpaid. (as in; the share of my works value form the company, not my wages against the rest of the market.) I haven't solved the meaningful work dilemma but, I know it certainly has nothing to do with what people think of my job. If I find something that: I'm truly passionate about, its realistic/sustainable in the long term and it pays me just enough to get by and save for retirement. I'd drop everything and go do that.

[@Kalendale]

These were my thoughts 20 years ago. Then I had kids.

[@Jewifer333x2]

The biggest cancer in the indie dev community does kind of center around the part where indie devs will ghost people who fund the game and hype up release dates and not meet them, or lash out at kickstarters after promising them a product, comparing themselves to that of a painter when they're closer to a custom home builder by artisan. If he had made the case that promises that turn into vaporware without much as an apology are a plague of the indie dev population, it would have made more sense.

[@negrastormentas2865]

If you think that if you have a job, you "contribute to society", you are a fool.

[@retroguardian4802]

You read into something that don't exist. You a drama queen my sir. If you were famous you would have videos like this made about you.

[@denverbasshead]

How many leftist buzzwords can he say in one video lol.

[@teksyndicate]

Seven