Keir Starmer must "grip" illegal immigration | UK politics | New Statesman

[@tompearce3610]

The continued use of "illegal immigration" by intelligent reporters is really disappointing. You must be aware that Asylum seekers arent illegal, they are awaiting assessment... Why continue the inaccurate and divisive terminology of the anti-foreigner lot? There are enough awful media outlets and current/former parliamentarians doing this already, please consider your choice of language.

[@khar12d8]

Hmmmm. There are illegal immigrants. The people crossing the Channel are bound to claim asylum since they immediately get caught on the other side. Some people get into Britain and never claim asylum so illegal. Either way, unless you get a grip on it then many Britons won't give a damn about an "asylum seeker" anyway. The system loses respect and asylum seekers just become seen as criminals/ illegal. The English channel crossings are disastrous for asylum seekers because it discredits all asylum seekers and the system. Personally, I would open up legal routes to claiming asylum in the UK from outside but then also go hard on stopping Channel crossings. Carrot and stick.

[@tompearce3610]

@@khar12d8 I totally agree. There are some people I would call illegal and agree about opening safe routes and perhaps an Asylum Assessment Centre in France. Additionally doubling down on preventing, what will then be fewer, boat crossings. The trouble is in the meantime that all asylum seekers are called illegal because that's the rightwing talking point so having journalists repeating the term is reinforcing and unfortunate. Illegal equals bad therefore asylum bad therefore attack, whether verbally or more physically. When was the last time a commentary included the need for asylum and whether we should accept asylum seekers?

[@mikeb7379]

Surely they are not legal or illegal immigrants, they are regulated or irregular?

[@tompearce3610]

@@mikeb7379 The Tories removed safe routes and removed the ability to claim asylum from abroad with a couple of narrow exceptions. That makes "irregular" a difficult term because for most asylum seekers there effectively isn't a "regular" approach. Using irregular implies there is an achievable regular approach even though there isn't. It feels like "illegal" - illegal is bad by implication but there isn't a realistic "legal" approach for those risking their lives in boats yet 70% have such a good Asylum claim that they are granted asylum... Even under an anti immigration Tory Govt.

[@stevekirkby6570]

The language and skirting around the issue here is laughable. People a p'eed off and simply want to maintain some sort of stability. No point in organising the deckchairs and certainly no point in the media orchestra playing something hopeful whilst we slowly slide into chaos. It's about time government and the lapdog media started addressing peoples worries in a meaningful way. This does not need to be hateful or violent - just ordered and strategic whilst maintaining compassion.

[@peterdollins3610]

Lots of problems round immigration & refugees--though refugees are a tiny minority of all. The last Tory Government/s deliberatly created problems in not processing immigrants or refugees & anyone inbetween & stirring up hate so there are injustices as with my Chinese partner. There are norms of many Incomers that are disruptive, anti-women & violent. I'd not relate these from my experience of 50 years on two Central London Council Estates. The atmosphere is too full of hate, bile, resentment & near or actual violence to talk of now. First thing Keir needs to do & he--with the 'Peace & Love' people have done--is calm things down. It'd help to hit the main culprits Tory MPs/'Reform' MPs/ Farage/GB News/ Talk Radio & links to EDL & Putin et al.

[@frostbite9]

Boats got to be stopped.

[@colincampbell4261]

What boats. I need my boat to work!

[@peteratkin3788]

The bloody happy fish, as well, they make me so sick.

[@rungus24]

It's not about 'educating' the public; it's about politicians telling us what they really believe and stand for. If nobody makes the case for immigration and asylum seekers, then anti-immigration rhetoric will be the only part of the discussion. The country moves to the right when the left gives up its ground.

[@serious9432]

those traffickers have milliona and millions, who gets a piece of the cake

[@philipgumm9243]

National ID cards for citizens and foreign labour. Singapore uses the system and it's very effective.

[@nicks4934]

All employers must check the applicant for ability to work in the uk

[@liaminwales]

The public do not like seeing people committing illegal acts, it looks like legal migrants have to work hard to get to the UK and illegal migrants get a free pass.

[@nicks4934]

Illegal migration is very small in the uk. Most asylum seekers are granted asylum. A poor choice of language

[@joex2004uk]

Exactly, the NS are quick to say “stop labelling these people are racist” but still refuse to correct the deliberate false narrative started by the previous Tory government.

[@camelotenglishtuition6394]

So.. the boats aren't illegal?

[@kodybreakell7145]

Not until they're asylum application is denied. Refugees can seek refuge anywhere and if they're arent safe legal routes set up by the govt they have the right to come by other means.​@@camelotenglishtuition6394

[@gio-oz8gf]

@@camelotenglishtuition6394 Under existing British law, it's illegal to enter the country without a visa or special permission. That means someone who reaches the UK on a small boat could face up to four years in prison. But people who make the Channel crossing are protected by international law if they claim asylum once they arrive.

[@kicorse]

​​@@camelotenglishtuition6394 The boats make up a very small proportion of migration. They're awful because of the number of people who die using them, but preventing them wouldn't have much impact on net migration, which is overwhelmingly due to people who take legal routes into the country. (I'm not making any judgment about whether legal migration is a good or bad thing in this comment - just giving a factual answer to the question.)

[@NeilHardy-i4l]

Rubbish we need to sort out the immigration service and make it fit for purpose.

[@joni5115]

It's mot illegal until they have all been processed.

[@fabiennemitchell2371]

It's illegal! Asylum applications are an exception to immigration laws, a type of 'defence' to circumvent immigration laws and rules.

[@colincampbell4261]

​@@fabiennemitchell2371incorrect interpretation of international law.

[@woodennecktie]

expecting something none of the others could achieve too is typical "Island" intelligence , you voted to become normal again . that does not mean miracles and odd promesses

[@jeongbun2386]

Sensible compassionate comments? On a video about migration?

[@Carlos-im3hn]

UK BoE has massive debts and deficits, and there is no money to fix these large serious problems. This is all grinding down legal and heritage society. There is only cancel culture and "absolute chaos" on the way down. Similar in Canada and USA. This is like fall of Rome 2.0.

[@nicks4934]

Eh?😂

[@peteratkin3788]

Gaslighting, got to love this channel.

[@malcolm8564]

How many returned after covid? I haven't heard that one before.

[@stevebell6057]

Britain has an ageing population - we need all the young immigration we can get.

[@Brett-im2jo]

How about making having children cheaper for young brits.you know free child care if you work etc,statements like yours makes the country poorer.

[@tompearce3610]

Need to grow the economy so people feel confident to have children but even if that starts in 2025 most won't be of working age for the best part of 20 yrs. In the meantime need immigration

[@andybrice2711]

We don't need "all the young immigration we can get" we need a reasonable number of young and productive people. The OBR suggests 350K per year. We've recently had double that, with many being dependents.

[@Brett-im2jo]

@stevebell6057 workers, not shirkers

[@MidlandsAviation]

Workers yes but economic migrants no

[@Paul-eb4jp]

Give him time, they've had 7 weeks, it's going to be hard to change the language, the press dictate that.

[@lescharles1468]

It could take him five years he still wouldn’t have a clue what to do

[@andybrice2711]

I'm in favour of taking in more refugees. But the current system does seem absurd. People arriving on boats from France are probably not the world's most vulnerable. They're disproportionately young men with the financial means to pay traffickers. And they're often from comparatively safe countries like Turkey, Albania, and Vietnam. We should transport people here safely from war-zones. Prioritizing irregular migrants is like trying to solve homelessness by inviting people to break into your house.

[@Mitjitsu]

I assume you're going to take them in?

[@andybrice2711]

@@Mitjitsu I think that’s a silly argument. You can be in favor of helping people through public spending without being expected to literally accommodate them in your own home. Like presumably you’re in favor of supporting wounded veterans? And terminally ill children? But I don’t expect you to actually house those people yourself.

[@3d1e00]

How about this? How is it that legal migration of students with dependents is viable financially? How is it that low skilled migration is financially viable?

[@tompearce3610]

@@3d1e00 foreign students pay high fees, pay to be allowed NHS treatment and contribute billions of pounds to the UK economy each year. Low skilled migration supplies workers to jobs that would otherwise go unfilled e.g. good production. Without them we'd be importing more (lower quality and more expensive food) as just one example

[@3d1e00]

@@tompearce3610 that's all great, but I do not think you understand the amount that needs to be contributed. Financially I would expect a good few thousand per dependent child for education at minimum. Plus at least 3k per person for NHS care. Per year! And a single complex event for the NHS kills that completely So what about other services? If they are interacting it's a cost and put bluntly it's a poor investment. This contribute billions of pounds thing. I want to see numbers. Generally speaking it's upper middle class and above where you start to see net contribution. This does not even remotely approach that. Do you think these students are millionaires? Their dependents are just here with pocket money and no needs? Something looks really odd here and I have never seen anything that clears it up. If it's an intangible they can at least give the gap that it's meant to offset.

[@tompearce3610]

@@3d1e00 if you search on UK benefits from foreign students cost £4.4B and benefit £41.9B many of these students leave at the end of the course but some stay at which point we have an educated addition to the workforce.

[@colincampbell4261]

​@@3d1e00overseas students pay about £30,000pa in fees alone, so yeah, from very wealthy families.

[@terrancehall9762]

​@@3d1e00 immigration is a net win.

[@ianwoodall4523]

We should not pander to Fascists

[@andybrice2711]

Of course. But not all nationalism is fascism. It's entirely reasonable to say, for example _"We shouldn't issue more visas than there are available homes."_ or _"We shouldn't prioritize irregular migrants over the most vulnerable refugees."_ or _"We shouldn't prioritize asylum seekers over vulnerable citizens."_

[@fabiennemitchell2371]

@ianwoodall - It would help if the word "fascist" was not misused. There is nothing wrong with wanting to control numbers of people coming into a country, seeking to know who they are, looking at infrastructure (housing, schools, jobs, hospitals etc), assessing societal integration, and much more. Jamaica, Nigeria, Ghana, Japan - the whole world does this.

[@MidlandsAviation]

So let millions in then? Do we have the systems in place? Curious

[@hangmanhands5826]

the boats count for a very small amount most of the immigration is legal either people are coming legally on short term visas and then staying forever theyre coming on student visas then getting a job in uni and getting permanent stay with a work visa or theyre using the commonwealth route where commonwealth nations get automatic right to live here

[@martincheeseman5809]

It has to be stable

[@martincheeseman5809]

He will

[@martincheeseman5809]

My grandparents lived in Birkenhead very close to Liverpool!

[@gio-oz8gf]

I miei nonni vivevano ad Aulla, molto vicino a La Spezia. What's your point?

[@martincheeseman5809]

I’m sure he will

[@barashah1171]

keep people engaged in these non issues....instead of solving housing education transport and health issues.... kier is just a tory pretending to be labour....

[@malcolm8564]

Indeed I want to see the plan to even up the GCSE scores across the UK.

[@andybrice2711]

@@barashah1171 The asylum system costs around £6bn per year. And is contributing to a breakdown of social cohesion in impoverished areas. So I don’t think it can be dismissed as a “non-issue”. I’m in favour of taking in more refugees overall. But it’s perfectly reasonable to talk about how we should do that. And avoid criminals exploiting the system at the expense of vulnerable people.