Britain has a work problem | Andrew Marr | The New Statesman

[@stopthetories]

It’s not a work problem, it’s people being disillusioned that their work doesn’t get them anywhere. People can’t get a home, can’t afford kids, can’t afford treats and holidays. It’s just a constant grind to just stay afloat.

[@cheech7900]

Exactly, its not a problem with work, its a problem with exploitation.

[@michaelsmith-vq6mt]

Absolutely

[@Me-oo4yu]

Rubbish. Don't have kids if you can't afford them.

[@cheech7900]

@@Me-oo4yu read it properly, they cant afford to have kids. So, they haven’t had them. People are tired of being exploited, when wages are so far behind inflation that the basic things like family and a home can’t be afforded, people start refusing to be exploited, figuratively speaking the exact same conditions that began the union movement 200+ years ago.

[@lucypeace6132]

@@Me-oo4yu That's what people are doing, genius. They can't afford to buy homes, have children, plan a future. Jobs where a man could afford to support a family, and buy a home now don't pay rent. In the meantime, the government are complaining that not enough children are being born. Well, duh. People can't afford them. Maybe try catching up with what's happening in the world instead of regurgitating generalisations that don't actually apply to modern living.

[@craig3533]

"Quiet quitting" is another way of saying "Acting your wage": You want people to work harder, maybe show that working harder results in a reward, rather than it meaning you're simply going to get more work. If you can work less, get the same return, and you aren't losing anything because there was never any real chance of getting any additional reward, then you are just being a rational actor in the economy. Welcome to the other side of capitalism.

[@sgbh8874]

Acting your wage! Brilliant. Also, people talk of having a good "work ethic ", but what about a good ‘’wage payment ethic’’ for companies etc. That or revolution. ‘’I am opposing a social order in which it is possible for one man who does absolutely nothing that is useful to amass a fortune of hundreds of millions of dollars, while millions of men and women who work all the days of their lives secure barely enough for a wretched existence.” ― Eugene V. Debs

[@Eltener123]

Quiet quitting is the laziest way to do it. The real way to be a rational actor in the economy would be to work hard but zig zag between companies so your salary and position increases far faster. Quiet quitting is only viable if you've given up on any sort of advancement and are content with your lot in life

[@sgbh8874]

@@Eltener123 ‘’Rational actor in the economy ’’ is a pre capitalist, pre Freudian concept. Beware of monsters from the ID.

[@aaronogden9900]

Yep. Outside of London it’s a sea of dogshit low payed jobs. Why try hard for no reward? I certainly act my wage and have come to view work as an unfortunate means to an end rather than something to have any interest in.

[@rednaxelA11]

​@@Eltener123 and what would you say to someone who's next advancement would require relocation, who has a family or other dependents? No, working your wage is a fair, responsible and ultimately capitalist method of ensuring you get the best value for your production.

[@abstractdrumz]

You are essentially calling us lazy in a time when one worker's wage can barely cover the rent. Back in the '80s, an average wage could sustain a stay-at-home partner and four kids, these days working families are struggling to keep their heads above water. You want better workers? pay them better wages and bring down the cost of living so that people can actually have disposable income again.

[@adrianthoroughgood1191]

Private sector landlords will always charge the maximum people are willing to pay. If everyone gets a 20% pay rise they will just raise rents 20%. We need not for profit rentals, either from housing associations or councils.

[@TracyCarr-rx4fw]

I've said that a few times

[@avs4365]

@abstractdrumz: Spot on. Even in 1970, as a gent's hairdresser who quit because of the then fashion of long hair, moved to driving a builders lorry then onto London Buses due to the better pay and conditions but had to accept unsociable hours my money always covered rent and food for my family without my wife working - today? No chance.

[@sherlockrobin597]

As someone who grew up in the 80s I can confirm this is absolute bollocks.

[@tomasarcher4761]

As per usual, the Starmer shills prove how hopelessly out of touch they are.

[@Cyber_Crows]

You can tell that none of these people have spoken to an average person in decades. Laughably out of touch.

[@Ditch-p8z]

They simply cannot understand that now anyone on an average salary is poor, the choice for most people is between: A) No life, no free-time and being poor or B) Having a life, lots of free-time and being poor B is clearly superior.

[@SamMerchant-vn4or]

@@Cyber_Crows Are you saying George Eaton has never been to a Wetherspoons in Slough ?

[@BlahBlahBlah-x3h]

Exactly

[@KernowFishy]

Spot on.

[@PaulM68322]

You can tell they've never worked manual labour or minimum wage before in their lives either.

[@DocNick68]

Every so often journalists have conversations with themselves that reveals they have literally no idea how everyone else works.

[@br5380]

Disagree. It’s no different to how I use to feel, and if you talk with ambitious colleagues, no doubt how they feel. Now I’m older, late 50’s , I can see why folk don’t have the same view that I had at their age. By the time I was 30 I was in a C-Level role in a FTSE100, worked +12 hour days plus global travel, so often weekends too and early starts & late finishes. Well rewarded too, +£100k by early 2000’s. I worked like a dog and expected the same from my teams & peers. Back then though it felt that hard work and a certain level of luck gave you a good life, ie Capitalism gave me Capital. What changed for me? Global Financial Crash. I got laid off and pretty much since then have worked contracts & lower level (still well paid as I’m an SME in Tech) jobs. I’ve no connection to the companies I work for though and the approach I see from them is they’d get rid of me in a heartbeat if they could (to save money). TBH have no concern if they succeed or fail. COVID was fantastic, as I didn’t have to be in an office (and look busy). I might slack compared to my ability, but I easily outperform my colleagues, who get paid the same as me. And how do I get away with this, simple. The majority of Managers I’ve worked for in the last 20 years are on the whole dreadful, they’ve no idea what I do technically, no ability to stimulate me and are pretty much concentrating 100% on keeping their own jobs. I run rings around them. Bottom line, companies want to make as much money as possible for the least effort/cost, so do I!

[@danrattigan96]

@@DocNick68 tends to be what happens when you put trust-fund/prep school/Oxbridge kids in a room together and ask them to talk about the issues of regular people. I’ve always quite liked the New Statesman, but they didn’t half give the game up here about how pompous and out of touch they are

[@Ditch-p8z]

It really is staggering that they just don't get it. They seem to lack the necessary empathy on this particular subject.

[@br5380]

What are they missing, they're just reporting the facts and then trying to understand why the facts are occurring.

[@danrattigan96]

@@br5380 they state a fact, but never actually dig into the underlying purposes. There are more people on long term sick in the UK than some other countries, okay, sure. But, Andrew Marr, because he’s such a good old chap with a stiff upper lip, just asserts that it’s because people are lazy and weak and just need to “toughen up a bit”. That’s not fact, that’s just arrogance from 3 people born with a silver spoon in their mouths

[@stuartrobb673]

The reason is a) we’re sick so can’t return to work because the NHS is broken, b) we realised that working is basically cr*p and we decided to stop wasting life when there are better things to be doing, or c) we realised that spending two to three hours a day in a cramped, uncomfortable train which costs us more per mile to travel than a private jet was just mad. d) all of the above

[@Schiltron]

"we realised that working is basically cr*p and we decided to stop wasting life when there are better things to be doing" Not since the days of slavery have there been so many people who feel entitled to what other people have produced.

[@Ditch-p8z]

Now anyone on an average salary is poor, the choice for most people is between: A) No life, no free-time and being poor or B) Having a life, lots of free-time and being poor B is clearly superior.

[@Documentary81]

@@Schiltron The rich don't produce anything, their workers do. What if the workers decide to stop producing anything for them to get rich on? Take your time, mull it over. Never have so many rich people felt so entitled to taking the profits from the things others have produced _for_ them, and for wages that have gone down in real terms for decades.

[@LA-fr7fx]

Option A is just an excuse, agree with all the others.

[@diego750]

Don't want to work? Fine, but don't expect me to pay for your laziness

[@protopigeon]

Britain has a journalism problem

[@mattj905]

It is genuinely a massive problem for our society. There has historically been a great deal of trust in establishments like the BBC for example, and older people still read and believe the mainstream media in this country. They’ve been lied to, literally brainwashed for years

[@downshift4503]

It also has an employer entitlement problem. Employers aren't entitled to long queues of desperate would be workers.

[@keving9157]

Maybe its not a worker problem so much as a rubbish employer problem? Why would anyone in this country who doesn't have to, come back to work in the most unwelcoming environments? Nobody ever answers that. Employees in this country are viewed as a consumables cost, not a valuable asset.

[@evolassunglasses4673]

Why would employers invest in their workforce, increase pay and conditions or invest in training or robotics if they just fly in labour from across the World? It's a race to the bottom.

[@roberthuntley1090]

And a tax problem - with 28% tax and NI, plus another 9% for anyone repaying a student loan people aren't exactly incentivised to work extra hours, especially if that requires a expensive commute.

[@keving9157]

@evolassunglasses4673 In a vlog by Phil Moorhouse, he points out that the Tories wanted to import workers from abroad to do the skilled, well paid jobs, while the 'idle British' as Truss & Co called us, would be forced into the low paid unskilled jobs. With an attitude like that towards your own indigenous workforce, why should they expect enthusiasm?

[@surpriserakins9067]

Employees can always leave rubbish employers.

[@keving9157]

@@surpriserakins9067 Easier said than done. There are plenty of them. And they lie!

[@Cyber_Crows]

High levels of depression might have more to do with how awful it is to live in this blighted shithole rather than people faking it…

[@minixtvbox]

True,14 Tory years UK is a slum

[@JM-yd9sm]

They just don’t get it that we CAN’T build even a simple life from the wages they pay the people at the bottom. I’ve already mentally retired, I’m just waiting for the pension to catch up.

[@grahamdrummond2412]

Yeah, agree, they really are all the same.​@CaptCurmudgeon

[@isbestlizard]

Work hard, and you too can pay 80% of your zero-hours contract to rent a shithole shoebox, pay the council and utilities what's left, and never own a house, start a family, or save for your retirement too! Such a compelling offer!

[@paulleighton7078]

Then leave ! Go and live and work in a better place!! OZ , Canada , nz , Singapore 🇸🇬! Get an education and take responsibility for what you want out of life . Don’t expect other to provide opportunity for you .

[@krisfraser6181]

Who do you think you are to tell someone to leave their own country?

[@geoffworley5275]

Canada has also become a cesspool; forget leaving, this nonsense is global aka no matter where you go, things have gone down

[@cassandra2249]

@@paulleighton7078 O, you're suggesting this person becomes a migrant then? I wonder what your opinion is of people who, do precisely that and, come to Britain.

[@miriamy123]

Britain has among the worst pay and conditions in Europe and the lowest pensions. Yet you paint us as workshy. What we are is poor, underpaid, over worked, no affordable childcare and excessive rentals, mortgage and fuel costs. How dare you condemn us!

[@ScepticalBrit]

Remarkable how out of touch they are!!! The pandemic showed that we have a rotten deal in the workplace. Remote working was a liberation for so many people and freed them from long commutes, horrible work environments and reduced costs. Why on earth would we want to return to doing things the old way?????

[@Cyber_Crows]

I certainly don’t miss all the bullshity office politics. I’m paid to do a job, not to waste time helping Susan undermine her boss 🙄

[@adrianthoroughgood1191]

He was saying the problem is that some people worked hard working from home, but others just skived off.

[@richardcameron3762]

@@adrianthoroughgood1191and those people got found out and got sacked. That’s what I observed.

[@geoffworley5275]

Because someone's friend owns commercial property

[@jasonstickler4570]

Shocking cost of public transport might have something to do with people wanting to work from home taken with poor pay rises this is a lethal combination

[@Zkkr429]

People have seen that we’re living in a con. Everyone has their hand in the working person’s pocket.

[@sidders1943]

The reason people don't switch jobs is because modern job seeking is fucking awful. If I was depressed there's zero chance of getting a job because you have to chuck shitloads of applications into the void and most of the time receive no response. If you want people to work, pay them for exactly what you want them to do. It's that simple.

[@mikeonb4c]

Totally, absolutely, completely agree with what you are saying. When will these numbskulls in their ivory towers grasp the fact that people (the young in particular though I went through what you're describing at 50 after being made redundant) have had enough.

[@Nimboid-20]

Yep. I've been there, even as a degree-qualified Engineer. I found recruiters wanted an exact match, down to the computer packages you'd used at the previous job. Then when an opening does arise, it's a matter of uprooting your home, or commuting long distances - either way, really expensive these days.

[@leegregorypeck]

Your negative rant hets 60 plus likes, my postive rant gets zero. Bad news gets more views.

[@downshift4503]

@@Nimboid-20 Degree qualified engineer with many years experience, went for a role almost identical to my previous and wasn't offered a first interview, asked the recruiter who said that as I didn't live within a few miles (I was around 50 miles away) I was immediately excluded. I did another role for a while and stopped working as soon as I could. Ideally I'll never have to work again.

[@mikeonb4c]

@@leegregorypeck I'm dying to read these rants but KZbin is so useless I can't find them in the random way it presents them 🙄😆

[@Cyber_Crows]

Throughout my twenties I put in obscene amounts of overtime, what did it get me? carpel tunnel and a p45. Don’t make my mistake do as little work as you can get away with. That unpaid overtime won’t improve your life.

[@Mal3lim]

Too true, I'm the same nowadays, the minute i'm off the clock and not getting paid is the time I get up from my desk and go home, I have a works mobile and laptop but they stay in the car boot until I walk back in to start my next shift, and dont ring my personal mobile if someone else rings in sick and your short staffed as I will not be answering.

[@andybrice2711]

As far as I can tell, it depends entirely on the organization. Some will reward you for putting in extra effort. Some will just take advantage of you, or maybe even punish you for showing up your co-workers.

[@stopthetories]

I hear you, I don’t agree but I hear you.

[@InquisitiveBaldMan]

​@@andybrice2711I think only small or new local comapnies are like this. They are few and far between! Everything is either an international chain profiteer or a monopoly these days. It is not a diverse economy.

[@user-oq2ch6ow2b]

Couldn’t agree more. And once you complete your work, you’re rewarded with more work!

[@tesserakt54]

Work is not rewarded, neither are qualifications. Employers seem to think they can pay their staff in excuses.

[@downshift4503]

My experience is that people are expected to consider the work itself as the reward and to identify their sense of self from the title. Work is the liability, not the asset.

[@Ditch-p8z]

In this country, at this time, someone on an average salary is poor. When the most likely outcome of 'work' is giving all your time and effort to be poor, I can see why you just wouldn't bother.

[@stephenle-surf9893]

@@tesserakt54 pay with excuses. Perfect 👌 summation of every pay deal and false promises everyone is sick of

[@terry9819]

Companies make massive profits. Shareholders get big payouts. Workers get a pittance. It's such a puzzle why people aren't enthusiastic about work.

[@kugelblitzen]

Apathy and lack of productivity for my employer is entirely down to mismanagement, lack of engagement with employees and morale issues. I suspect that’s the case in a lot of office-based work.

[@MrBlooDeck]

Absolutely, and beyond just offices!

[@richardcameron3762]

Yep. My observation also

[@bronson9836]

Working harder than others in your workplace will ensure that you will get dumped on with more work than anyone else. The more you do, the less time bosses have to waste trying to get others to do it.

[@joshwilliams0391]

Spot on.

[@JM-yd9sm]

And the more you do, the more risk of making a mistake and getting disciplined. Lazy people don’t get sacked because they do the bare minimum.

[@ked1050]

Britain has a huge inequality problem, a housing problem, a cost of living problem, a care problem, a broken NHS problem and many more problems. If the likes of Andrew Marr want people to work harder, doing so needs to be made worthwhile. Why would anybody want to graft hard to get nowhere?

[@GramdalfFGC]

Absolutely hilarious they think the issue is working from home, when getting absolutely everyone back in the office would achieve nothing but make everyone fucking miserable.

[@frankshailes3205]

And spread diseases, resulting in more days off thanks to broken NHS.

[@applepye87]

I agree with the other commenters that this is about working conditions. As a teacher in London, the expectation was to work huge overtime to the point of burnout. The pay was not enough to have a decent quality of life because of rent prices. Sort the conditions out, and then teachers will stay in the profession and the country.

[@sebastianfusc3374]

Completely. This stuff enrages me: it’s either disingenuous or utter deluded. Either way, the lack of empathy for people destroying their health just to do a decent job is utterly immoral and inexcusable.

[@normanchristie4524]

@@sebastianfusc3374It is the literati's view. Our economy has been ruined by Thatcher's neoliberal model. Working life now is as bad as it in the 50s - 80s what ever to work/life balance with a decent sick pay/parental leave, pensioned retirement?

[@TheBillaro]

I'm a teacher, and I LOVE the UK, Canadian born to British parents, but I'll not work in those conditions. I live in SE asia which is far better in so many fundamental metrics. I can see a doctor within a few minutes 24/7 for a start.

[@SarahWalker-Smith]

Do these other economies have struggling health systems ? Did they lockdown early to prevent large numbers of long Covid? Do they have ageing populations? Do they support carers in their benefit system? Have they trained workers to adapt to new jobs? Do they have a high standard of education? Is it free? Do they have employers who expect to train their workforce or do they expect perfect Einsteins to walk through the door and pay them 20k? There are a lot of problems in this country . Few of them are the fault of the workforce. Politicians must look to themselves. If they think they are going to get away with playing the blame game they are deluded.

[@pompeymike83]

Also what about our atrocious housing situation and the demands on parents. We do have a problem in work but it is multi faceted and complex. Needs fixing though.

[@trytwicelikemice3190]

Yes, many countries are dealing with many of those same problems you raise. And you talk about playing the blame game without a hint of irony considering the entire rest of your comment?

[@archerversuslight]

Why should UK workers bust a gut when wages have been stagnant for decades, and comparatively lower relative to western competitor nations?

[@paulleighton7078]

Because that’s how the economy grows . Your income should only increase when you provide a better return. More output

[@downshift4503]

@@paulleighton7078 Then don't expect more work. People don't care about a greater good, they care about themselves and their own families. The evidence shows that more output is disproportionately beneficial to the shareholders not the employees.

[@frankshailes3205]

@@downshift4503 profits are syphoned off to shareholders, while workers receive real terms pay cuts. No incentive for loyalty or working harder.

[@Ditch-p8z]

Now the cost of living crisis has made the average salary unliveable, for many people work just looks like a waste of their life

[@danielwebb8402]

@@archerversuslight To eat food?

[@Paddleposter62]

It's clear that none of these people understand how the world of work actually functions.

[@jackdeniston6150]

Actually, how the world works. How the universe works.

[@rogermanvell4693]

People want out of the work force because neo liberalism has made work so unpleasant. As for working from the home that has huge benefits for the environment and the family and productivity was down way before Covid. Marr is ridiculously out of touch on this.

[@melindagallegan5093]

Far too much office politics.

[@stephenle-surf9893]

Do more for less has been the position for decades. Enough is enough. Everyone is exhausted.

[@deathwarmedup73]

a little before my time, but i seem to remember my father doing well up until about the late 80's, then it all went south, and by the 90's lots of people were doing more for less.

[@Documentary81]

@@deathwarmedup73 Yeah, Thatcher saw to it that working people got shafted in favour of big bosses, the rich and so on. It's gotten worse ever since.

[@tonybrett5209]

I worked all through Lockdown in Security at Whitehall. Now I can't get work as they are expecting me to be expensive. Long gone are the days of demanding what are worth.. I have to pay £300 + £300 every 3 years for my Door Safety licence. £150 for my CCTV. £60 for Emergency First Aid at Work. I've got Counter Terrorism certificates. Fire Warden trained PMVA and NAPPI (Specialist restraint training) Why should I get paid the same as a shop worker? (And NOT even an Aldi shop worker) (I worked in Retail for 16 years before anyone says I'm disrespecting shop workers- from trolleys to Section Management)

[@futures2247]

most large scale surveys show clearly most people hate their jobs or are 'sleep walking' through them

[@crippsverse]

It's a problem if they're claiming benefits but if they've downsized, controlled their spending and can afford to work less, why shouldn't they? It's up to the employers to encourage them back.

[@Ditch-p8z]

You're absolutely spot-on. So many of the economically inactive aren't claiming benefits, they discovered new (non-work) priorities since the lockdowns.

[@inthegutterstaringathestars]

Andrew Marr is trying to tell me Britain has a work problem. Andrew Marr. The man who thinks talking for a living is "work"?

[@frankshailes3205]

And talking BS and hot air a lot of the time. Contribution to society = precisely zero.

[@Tuffjobs]

Exactly!

[@lordprotector3367]

Being paid half a million or so a year for 5 hours 'work' a week.

[@KernowFishy]

Yeah exactly . Media class toffs telling us serfs to feel shame if the system they helped screw over has lead to us being too sick to work.

[@SamMerchant-vn4or]

Also are this panel really qualified to discuss in detail the UK work environment ? when was the last time this lot had a non London journo job ?

[@SamMerchant-vn4or]

I will say tho, I like Andrew Marr

[@abstractdrumz]

@@SamMerchant-vn4or yeah I like him and the rest of the team too but they have definitely dropped the ball on this one.

[@colinb9183]

They've never done a hard days work In there lives only part of the body they get blisters is their arse FFS 😂😂

[@captaintorch983]

Spot on!

[@richardthomas3853]

I’ve rarely seen such universal agreement in a Comments section! Looks like ordinary British working people have woken up to the fact that they have been receiving the wrong end of the work pineapple for too long.

[@ay2deet578]

My work is a dysfunctional clusterfuck, if employees are not motivated it's often the result of piss poor leadership.

[@nlewin5072]

That's exactly my experience, and the experience of most of my friends. The management class in the UK is beyond useless -they actually damage everything and everyone and are a negative contribution to the happiness and productivity of the nation. W. Edwards Deming once said that "15% of any company's problems are down to it's workforce; the other 85% of its problems are because of poor management." That quote needs to be put out there more because from where I'm standing it's THE biggest problem facing the British economy today.

[@MichaelRichardWatson]

In my case I put in massive numbers of unpaid hours to keep the University running and earning full revenue by lecturing on line (which was very stressful) though out Covid, and now my thanks as an external lecturer and supervisor is dismissal !!!

[@dave0n2wheels69]

We don't have a work problem, we have a management problem. In my 45 year career, I have never seen such incompetence, lack of understanding, top-table clique mentality and senior-management dissociation as I have in the last few years. The problem is that these idiots are in charge, and they'll never sack themselves, so the productive, competent people continue to take the hit. If I had my way, I'd sack anyone who spends their day in meetings, brings Costa-Coffee to work or utters the words "difficult decisions"! Get EVERYONE on a salary back to the productive front-line, and things will improve.

[@GramdalfFGC]

It’s these people who have the issue with working from home. Their own jobs for want of a better word are bullshit, all they do is wander corridors and go to meetings about meetings. When they work from home, they do nothing and imagine that’s what everyone else has to do

[@richardcameron3762]

@@dave0n2wheels69 Lol Dave you have hit the nail on the head this is one of my managers. To confirm are you saying that those who have back to back meetings are unproductive because they aren’t actioning things? This is my observation experience.

[@dave0n2wheels69]

@@richardcameron3762 Absolutely. I've noticed that many managers now think it's a real job. They come into work and brag about how busy their calendars are, without ever considering what are the tangible, productive outcomes of their many meetings. They don't appear to know any different. I've had meetings this week with senior managers whose only objective was to find someone to blame for anything that went wrong. I pointed out to them that their job was to focus on how to fix it and prevent it happening again. The irony was that the problems were fundamentally caused by the senior management replacing some competent people with some cheaper ones!

[@nlewin5072]

100%. Bullseye. Absolutely on the nail.

[@grahams1609]

Perhaps if all the money wasn’t ending up in the hands of 1% there would be more incentive.

[@robc7162]

The 1% who then avoid paying their fair share of tax but still want the benefits of living in a relatively safe stable country.

[@GreenFont]

There seems to be this thing in the British psyche where the first go to for any sort of work/money issues is that the people are lazy. Which is in itself a lazy answer. How about a comparative look at other European countries working conditions, rather than trying to be a mini-America we need to make workplaces attractive.

[@EstherV359]

Thank you, yes. The lazy thing to say is that others are lazy. And loads of work places have simply contracted - you can’t move around if jobs to move to have reduced, unless you have genuine workable and affordable retraining incentives. Middle aged women have been really badly hit, 200k fewer women over 50 in the workforce. No-one wants to invest in retraining women who also have caring responsibilities. What a waste! But also what a horrible way to mislabel people! What about the huge value someone adds if they are caring for children and elderly parents and are unpaid for both those jobs! Sorry - hit a nerve😂

[@glassmuxxic]

This dodges the long-term reality that Europe is ageing, comparatively unproductive, uncompetitive and not very innovative - much like the UK. To fund all the unsustainable goodies promised to the public in election after election, the country needs to actually produce things rather than argue endlessly about how to divy up and/or tax the diminshing returns of decades old assets (housing, zombie companies etc.)

[@josephrobinson6171]

Part of the 'not moving around to different jobs' problem is the fact that searching for a job is pure hell. The amount of bullshit time wasting hoops they make you jump through, the fake job postings and long interviews and cancelled interviews (last minute, sometimes without even a call or text), the re-writing your entire CV every time you apply for a job, having companies steal your data to sell when you make an account on their website to apply, the ghosting.

[@downshift4503]

Britain doesn't have a work problem. If there are people who aren't currently working who would be willing given incentive and companies that want workers then it can be resolved. This country has gone through a long period of people being on the back foot at the mercy of employers. The balance has shifted somewhat. I left the workplace at 52 (by living frugally) and have no intention of returning.

[@crumpetsbuttered]

With rising immigration and stagnant salaries outside of unionized sectors, many of us face wages that are too low to keep up with the high cost of living. It's no surprise that mental illness is on the rise and fewer people are motivated to work in this country.

[@frankshailes3205]

Join a union then.

[@Ditch-p8z]

Exactly! If jobs are unlikely to afford you the dream of home ownership, then hard work is a tunnel without any light at the end.

[@chrysalis4126]

People whose job is just sitting around giving their opinions can't understand why other people who did monotonous proper work aren't going to go back to it if they can manage.

[@andybrice2711]

I'm not sure that's entirely fair. Andrew Marr may have a more relaxed and sedentary career following his stroke. But I'm sure his previous work as a reporter was very demanding both intellectually and physically.

[@frankshailes3205]

@@andybrice2711 Some of us have had two or three strokes and still work harder than Marr.

[@call_in_sick]

@@andybrice2711 nonsense

[@guygrist4436]

Trying to get through the application progress to even get in an interview at the moment is like banging one’s head in to break wall.

[@mrhobsonschoice]

I work from home, Mr Marr. My employer closed all offices as they do to want to pay for them (they don't pay for pay rises either).The majority of home workers work extremely hard. Im sure some don't, but that could be the same for people in the office.

[@paulleighton7078]

You shirk from home rather than in the office 😂

[@frankshailes3205]

When I was in the office people were chatting all day instead of working. I had my head down and did many times more work than them.

[@KernowFishy]

Me too. As a software engineer I get far more done without constant interruption.

[@brenglover72]

Work to live. Not the other way round.

[@sbrown314]

Why would I want to commute into London while being charged an arm and a leg to use our crappy railways? Working from home saves me a fortune.

[@cassyfromgarry]

I love work.I could sit and watch it all day.....Oscar Wilde.😊

[@crayontom9687]

Andrew spent 5 years from 2010 to 2015 asking every politician who came on his show how they were going to cut the deficit and get the debt down. If he’d asked them every week ‘why is productivity so low in this country?’ then we might not be in this situation now. But he didn’t and we are, so never mind

[@theredjediknight]

People have woken up to the fact that working for most companies is toxic, expectations are high in return for shite pay & awful conditions. I can only work p/t thanks to the all the bullying & toxic conditions in the NHS & UNISON.

[@Yaarmehearty]

Who wants to work? It’s a waste of time that doesn’t pay well enough and has no security. Why put the hours in when you get made redundant every few years so there’s no progression? I’m only half way through my working life but the idea of doing this for another 20 years is so depressing that it makes you wonder what the point in even being here is. The government talks about growth, commentators talk about growth, but growth for what? What is it for? What do we get out of it? Why should we care? Unless the government and the media can show us where the is going and with clear deliverables and roadmaps then why should we engage? Who cares about Britains growth if we don’t see any benefit from it? Quiet quitting is the only logical response from us as a public, we can take our time back and that time is currently more valuable than anything work is offering.

[@quietfire286]

What's the point of working hard to make someone else richer whilst you yourself see your standard of living decline year by year...This hyper capitalist system we exist in stops working when there is little meritocratic gain to be hard from applying yourself. We are way past time for a different kind of politics and economics

[@GramdalfFGC]

To add to it, it’s a free labour market, I do 1 a day a week in the office, I work in IT so have a job where I actually have stuff to do every day. WFH has allowed me to save money on my commute, which has allowed me to buy a house, I spend more time with my family, I’m able to walk my dog at lunch time get some fresh air and not sit staring at my phone eating a tesco meal deal. It’s a free labour market, the reality is that if my job forced everyone back in, I’d take my labour elsewhere, and I can’t imagine I’m the only one, I literally saw an article the other month about people leaving Goldman sachs because of their draconian you must be in the office. The people have tasted the other side. The genie is very much out of the bottle now.

[@frankshailes3205]

WFH is actually more productive for most people.

[@BritTheElder]

Sainsbury's meal deal is better, you can get a Costa included for £3.75 and you get free beans.

[@robinspat]

If Marr listened to Kamala Harris recently, there is a work problem, it is low pay, it’s is decent well paid jobs almost exclusively only for graduates. See Denmark $22 per hour at McDonalds. There is a work problem, outside of London and the south east, well paid non graduate jobs have evaporated. When Marr comments on those who work from home remotely it is those with skill set enabling remote working. The vast majority of the poor working stiffs are working exceptionally hard in jobs they can not work from home. The vast majority of the work force have to pitch up to schools, hospitals, retail, hospitality, bus driving, delivery van and physically hauling packages to front doors etc etc. Marr is in his Westminster bubble as ever, insulated with his massive bbc salary and free lance extra monies, and as ever spouts his conservatives party Tory tainted nonsense.

[@danielwebb8402]

@@robinspat er he's enormously pro Labour/ this channel doesn't even pretend isn't biased towards labour

[@robinspat]

@@danielwebb8402 I think you forget how pro Tory (not the recent shower obvs) Marr was clearly over the years. I am not saying Marr is a Nick Ferrari plum in mouth fascist but while he was professional he was tainted by the whiff. “Marr joined a BBC News exodus, including Emily Maitlis and Jon Sopel, whose podcast The News Agents found a wide audience for political discussion that rejects the traditional BBC interpretation of neutrality.” The Tory appointed DG and head of BBC news were both Brexit supporting donors… meddling in editorial, resulting mass exodus

[@andrewcalladine2507]

Fed up with entitled people claiming British people our lazy.

[@paulleighton7078]

They are . 30% are net beneficiaries wtf 😢

[@happyslappy5203]

Bobby Duffy, director of the Policy Institute at King’s College London: "Of 24 nations included in a study by the Policy Institute at King’s College London, people in the UK emerge as the least likely to say work is important in their life. Around one in four of those surveyed in the U.K. said work is very or rather important to them. That’s a much lower proportion than in the U.S. and France, where 80% and 94% said the same, respectively. "

[@adambrickley1119]

The UK has a rewards for work problem. There is no incentive to work over a certain amount in the UK. Look at the ratio of wages to property in the UK compared to other EU economies.

[@paulleighton7078]

Yep 100% agree. A punitive tax system, to pay for a fat welfare state system and a failing Health model . It all needs reform , won’t happen unfortunately as it would be electoral suicide

[@Ditch-p8z]

You have hit the nail on the head. If the average property in an area was £40k, people would happily work full-time for £10k/annum. In an area where an average property is £400k, anything much less than a six figure salary would just be hard work for zero improvement to quality of life. People in such an area know they're statistically unlikely to earn six figures, so why bother at all?

[@theredjediknight]

When I was a Mental Health Nurse, I cared for many people particularly teachers who had donated the best years of their lives to their work only to be abandoned & dumped on the scrapheap when they became ill or requested rediced workloads or hours. Work your proper hours and no more, you eont be thanked for the extra effort or time. It was the only way Royal Mail ever reduced the size of deliveries for postal workers & it created new employment.

[@JM-yd9sm]

It’s a fair pay problem. If your wage does not allow you to even rent a home, how can we build even a simple life? I’m not working for just a room in a paid for slave ‘squat’.

[@MargaretDeakin-d6m]

Interesting how the journalists that discuss work conditions and pay are often millionaires, and have never experienced the reality of being exploited and squeezed dry by Companies in order to meet their shareholder passive incomes.

[@unblessedcoffee1457]

For years we were told that one of the major benefits of computers would be the ability to work from home. Remember the word processor talking over the phone? Or Arthur C Clarkes speech? But no, still come into the office, and all those benefits just turned into higher productivity but the same hours for the worker.

[@paulmessenger9836]

Too many mistakes at home time to get into the office

[@frankshailes3205]

Those Tory landlords have to get their office space rent money somehow.

[@pault1289]

When you need at least two incomes to be able to afford a family home, and childcare is so expensive, is it any surprise that people don't move? If you have arrangements with friends, family, nursery and after school/ holiday club places, moving two jobs is really difficult and risky. If you are both on probation - most employers can let you go say a week's notice. And in most companies you aren't going to get an enhanced redundancy, statutory only kicks in after two years. And is rubbish - is it any wonder people aren't more mobile? Add to this a poorly trained and unprofessional management community (check out the stats from the Chartered Institute of Management) and giving a new job a go, let alone two say the same time is very risky.

[@countottovanshanoo822]

As others have suggested, how about the problem is dreadful employers stuck in the 19th century us/them work model? Maybe it's time for employers to look to themselves and ask "How can I attract people so they actually *want* to work for me?" Think about employees as people, not cattle; share the rewards amongst *all*, not just bosses, when the business is doing well instead of ignoring workers in good times and punishing them when it isn't (while still rewarding managers handsomely for just doing their job with fake 'bonuses'). The irony last week of Rees-Mogg complaining about people working from home, whilst he was himself literally working from home to do the complaining, wasn't missed by many.

[@paulleighton7078]

How about employees looking at theirselves ? Education is the key

[@countottovanshanoo822]

@@paulleighton7078 *Themselves. This has nothing to do with education, it applies to all the workforce, whatever their skills or lack of.

[@1258-Eckhart]

That New Statesman cover "Germany doesn't do it better" is quite correct, we don't, but for very differing reasons. The Tories really did destroy Britain as a manufacturing economy and that quite some time ago, but the trade policies of the Von der Leyen EU (which the UK was never in) are now having the same effect on German manufacturing. Even worse are the trade policies of the USA, and until Europe wakes up and confronts this, decline will continue to be catastrophic. I was last in London in 2016, and it was a hugely impressive city buzzing with life.

[@themsmloveswar3985]

London is descending fast. Not safe. Expensive.

[@captaintorch983]

It's buzzing with immigrants and crime now.

[@juleswombat5309]

But we are a Services based economy, with our exports based upon the talents of people working in offices or WFH computers. That is why we are now the 4th largest exporter. All this drivel about loss of manufacturing. Since when do we want to compete with the working conditions of China/ Vietnam ?

[@danrattigan96]

This seems very insensitive and arrogant from, frankly, a gang of upper-middle class Oxbridge toffs. The world is moving towards remote and flexible working, and people rightly feel empowered to be lass tolerant of toxic workplace cultures. Unfortunately for Marr, people don’t want to do 6.5 days a week on the cotton mill floor anymore

[@richardcameron3762]

I’ve made this same point. You are totally true with your point. My company farmed out finance to India. Are they gonna make them come into the office? Marr wants us all to stop using teams. If we do we’re going to fall behind the rest of the world. Tech up!!!!

[@KernowFishy]

Yup, feels like a barely masked "get back to work plebs".

[@johnobrien8398]

The work problem is that people don’t get paid enough to survive

[@paulleighton7078]

Problem is low productivity! Therefore you’re paid what your worth . Unfortunately you’re not worth much 🤷‍♂️. That’s reality mate

[@melindagallegan5093]

@@paulleighton7078Wages have not risen since 2008 and more productivity gets rewarded with more work and not financial reward!

[@aficio698]

If labour was to do anything force change on employers. My employer constantly bleating on about the employees r the number one priority. Pushing mental health down everyone’s throat. We all know it’s just a box ticking exercise. In 30 months 137 people have walked out - it’s a revolving door. But they will not acknowledge there’s a problem. Minimum wage and legal minimum pension contributions. It’s all about the VC’s 💩

[@MrPsaunders]

Britain has a pundit problem.

[@ianwoodall4523]

So much for Marr's progressive politics. I work in the third sector. I did 60 hours last week. Most of us do because thanks to the Westminster goons he fawns over food banks have to be staffed, helplines have to be run and people wrecked by the last 14 years helped. In case Mr Marr hasn't noticed this country is beaten to breaking point. The people that he loves having cosy chats with did that. Mr Marr should stop punching down and hold the people that caused this mess to account .

[@nathan5126]

The reaction to this video is spot on, guarantee none of them even look. But if they did, they wouldn’t believe it anyway.

[@faves2064]

What Andrew doesnt understand is that regular working people have been thoroughly mistreated. Employers have taken the mick with an increased workload, poorer work life divide and reduced benefits such as bonuses, staff days, subsidised things like lunches, days out etc.

[@detritiv0re144]

In order for sick and disabled people to work there must be employers willing and able to hire and pay them. Are we considering that side of the equation?

[@frankshailes3205]

80% of autistic people are unemployed. Discrimination in this country is horrific, and economic idiocy.

[@nlewin5072]

Completely agree. Companies MAKE people sick and then politicians wonder why the sick can't get jobs. They should be asking themselves 'Would I employ this person with (insert whatever long-term health issue comes to mind)?' and if not, why should anyone else be expected to employ them? I nearly lost my job at the DWP in the early 2000s for having 12 days sick leave in a 12-month period, whilst at the same time the DWP were running a scheme that prioritised bringing the long-term sick into the workplace. So in theory someone who had had 12 days sick leave in a year could be replaced by someone who had spent the same 12-month period on incapacity benefit. That's how the system and Government Departments work. Or don't.

[@D34DParadise]

I graduated from university last year and have been looking for graduate employment since. It has felt like an insurmountable and soul crushing task as I have sent out hundreds of job applications and have had the vast majority of those applications completely ignored. I get frustrated every time I hear people blame economic inactivity on British people being lazy because I don’t think it is at all true. Most people want to have a career where they feel adequately rewarded for their work and a career that gives them the ability to get on in life but the current job market is in such a mess that this is not possible for a lot of people in this country.

[@shoutybloke]

"Depressed people don't want to work". Yes, and neither do people uncontrollablely vomiting, or with raging fevers. Mental illness isn't different from physical illness, and its unforgivably ignorant to suggest it is.

[@redhandtheblack]

Yeah but a tiny minority of lazy people could just say they're depressed so we must treat them all like they're faking. Which is basically their logic.

[@frankshailes3205]

@@redhandtheblack You can fake vomiting or a fever, too.

[@ThomasBoard8]

On Britain’s so-called “work problem” Andrew Marr may be right that there is an atmosphere of “hostility” on the part of the economically inactive, though others might alternatively frame their economic plight as oppressed and precarious. Memories are long, and labour market behaviours and trends are the product of policy choices that the public intuitively understands better than policy wonks and politicians seem to think. I think the logical error being made in this line of argument is expecting people to switch off their collective memories after 14 years of austerity, employment precarity, inequality of outcomes and their disgust at our political leadership (including Starmer’s silence on Brexit). In a word, what is missing is trust. The negativity of messaging coming from our Labour government is surely not helping things. How can you ask people to do it for Britain when the messaging is things are going to get worse (read as more struggle and pain), Starmer is unwilling to bring in wealth taxes (read as unfair) and Reeves is unwilling to boost investment or depart from treasury orthodoxy (just incomprehensible). When economists and the media discuss “growth” they mean GDP. When the majority of the pubic, not being schooled in economics, think of growth it has a far more personal meaning that is both financial and aspirational. Language matters, and the tone of this argumentation is just wrong.

[@howarddavis2281]

I'd expected better than this. Unhappiness has become a major externality of most corporations today. Public and private. Real wages have fallen. Conditions are worsening. Psychopathy has effectively become a desirable personal quality for management. Out of touch is an understatement.

[@johntruman4397]

We cannot grow as energy is not cheap and labour does not get paid enough to make it worth it.

[@MargaretDeakin-d6m]

Covid provided the opportunity for worker's to get off the hamster wheel. They woke up, and realised that their work life was miserable and coercive. Thank goodness❤❤❤ Employers, and those big Corporations that treat human beings like slaves, including wages that do not cover living costs, have lost their power. Solution: improve work and conditions. This requires a reduction of shareholder profiteering.

[@robhastings1005]

Three indviduals speaking about matters about which they are never likely to have direct experience - the conditions of work outside of lifting a pen or writing an email. Yet still they ponitificate.

[@frankshailes3205]

They have lots of time on their hands to pontificate in. Everyone else is working too hard to spare the time for such hot air.

[@plankton50]

As someone with pretty severe chronic fatigue who's managed to claw their way into full time employment after a very difficult journey, I do find it the "toughen up," line, said mainly by people who are more successful than myself, very frustrating. People do need resilience and resilience is a very good thing to encourage people to have, but if the extent of your intervention is to say "they should be doing that," then you don't really care. You're not really providing a solution for how to encourage people to be more resilient, you're just moaning.

[@WaterCarrier07]

Britain has a pay problem, a health problem, a listlessness problem, a cost of living problem.

[@tomdavey9474]

New Statesman missing the mark with this one. Chronically out of touch.

[@cassandra2249]

Work culture has become so nasty, rigid and miserable. There's no fun at work any more. In my job you have to be extremely high functioning, all the time, with no breaks because you can't afford them. ( I get more money working lunch breaks etc) The hierarchy at work, by contrast, appear to be extremely well paid and experience a completely different day. The result is feeling resentful and tired all the time. For the young there is even less reward. I can only afford to live off my salary because I am old enough to have paid off my mortgage and I don't own a car, otherwise my salary would not cover the average rent and bills.

[@mattsmith1157]

Andrew Marr has given up journalism and now appears to be a lobbyist for big business. If employers don’t want to increase wages why should employees make money for them. He’s also wrong that it’s just a UK problem, it’s the west in general.

[@GalacticRadioNoise]

Employees who are more productive at home shouldn’t be penalised for the employees that aren’t.

[@paulmartin6249]

Work problem, exactly we realised that we the hard working were being taken for mugs, just paying for everybody else. So stop and enjoy life rather than others enjoying life off hard working backs.

[@christopherbrown6652]

How to get people back to work? Pay them properly.

[@nlewin5072]

And treat them properly.

[@christopherwatson1163]

This again goes back to hope. Give people hope about the future, and they will look forward to working toward their future!

[@richardhuckle5715]

The question is how many workers does the UK need? Yes there will always be vacancies for qualified jobs in NHS, but when you look at jobs being advertised, there are not that many. Probably more job seekers than jobs available. UK economy needs much more investment to create jobs.

[@blackstone-]

@Andrew - the problem is that Britain is run by accountants vs. US which is run by entrepreneurs....companies often want people on the cheap and care more about cost than quality....living and min wages are close to grad salaries.....the Big 4 still pay rought the same for grads as they did 20 years ago....even then the salary wasnt great. In the UK, companies rather just keep you at the same wage than pay you more to reward you for good performance....it is crazy....in my grad job....I had the best review ever....I was outperforming people with 10-15 years more experience than me.....my pay rise was £300 a year!!!! what a joke.....many UK companies are run by cheap skates...

[@dannevirkenz]

How is a journalist ,who used a super injunction to stop other journalists reporting on his suspected love child, allowed to work in journalism? Surely that is a problem

[@frankshailes3205]

No free press.

[@lenkapenka6976]

yes, work problem = they are paid peanuts and screwed over time and time again

[@DwainDwight]

problem is mass corruption & having a bleak future. most young folks now just happy that as long as they can cover some cheap rent and a pizza. why slave your ass off to get nowhere

[@lucasdeyton8842]

Minimum wage will potentially rise to £12.10 an hour in 2025. Why would I take a tonne of debt out to get a degree and work in a lab for £26k when I could stock shelves at Aldi for £24.5k?

[@wattbenj]

£24.5k is not a very good wage at all for full-time work stacking shelves. The lab should be paying £40k+ in a healthy economy.

[@mojonojo3]

A lot of people have taken the lies told by their employers for the last 15yrs - work hard and you will be recognised qhen we get through the crisis - 15yrs later people have worked out they are being treated like chumps.

[@benadams6872]

With big corporations mainly focused on shareholder value there is less appetite for pay increases. Unless you are a board member. Doesn't matter how hard you work you will not be remunerated for it, so why bother doing more than you are contracted to.

[@TP1988]

If hard work led to something then more people would work hard

[@clarkhunt4014]

Maybe its a wage problem plus cost of living if working and cant afford the basics let alone a home somethings up

[@mcrunk1977]

It is a management problem not a worker problem. Good managers don’t bully. Our local mail delivery staff are “broken men” in the words of a young worker who managed to escape.

[@Kevin-mx1vi]

For many years, employers - with a great deal of government assistance through eroded worker's rights - have squeezed more and more out of employees until being willing to work has become a recipe for stress. Work hard and your reward is to be given more work until your job becomes unbearable. Pay rises have consistently been below inflation, so standards of living and quality of life have fallen for the vast majority while the rich have become richer. Where's my motivation to "put in a shift" ?

[@antonywilliams5703]

When I look at my wages now compared to 30 years ago I'm 25-30% worse off in real terms. It's the same for most people, just not the insulated ones at the top.

[@mindless-pedant]

I'm desperate to get work. The amount of job applications I've put in over the last 8 months is running into 100s. No joy and I'm not fussy. I have my suspicions why I'm still out of work, since Feb 2024 .....I'm 65.

[@stephenconboy1961]

Maybe they see something in you that they don’t amongst their workforce

[@mindless-pedant]

@@stephenconboy1961 Yes. Of course they do. It's my age. They can work a newly minted graduate 12 hours a day for the minimum wage. Not so easy to do with an old codger like me.

[@aficio698]

I’ve been there! Every interview I attended the people doing the interview were more concerned that I was more qualified then them. There may be a narrative from government to get people 50 plus back to work. Employers are not on board. When you get to a certain age we will not put up with crap! Management prefer teenagers as they can bully them.