Metal Planer Restoration 48: Making a Flat Gib for the Clapper Box Cross Slide

[@aserta]

Looks like Keith's hammer is up for a new casting session. :)

[@MrPossumeyes]

Yeah. It's done a lot of Persuading in it's time! 😁

[@georgelequin5070]

My thoughts exactly aserta!

[@millomweb]

Aww, that'll be the second time in the last 100 years - LOL.

[@johnmanning4577]

It's just getting broke in!!...

[@michaelkenefick]

They make news ones at Arnfest, often.

[@martin09091989]

Holy gosh dang! i can see the double sided banana bow in that pice with my eyes! I would have put a jack under the ends while milling!

[@millomweb]

I'd have clamped it to the table (magnetic chuck?) so it was fully supported. The vice is too easy ;)

[@TheKnacklersWorkshop]

Good work Keith... take care

[@AverilWard]

I thought I saw something change when that facemill came off the part! Surprised it didn't chatter like crazy on the first pass. Thanks for sharing!

[@WhatAboutTheBee]

I stopped the video. Went back. Watched it again. I said to myself, 'Hope Keith caught that". Looks like he did!

[@AverilWard]

Silly mistakes,we've all been there! Reminds me of that time I sent a 100mm facemill into a roughly 4mm DOC... Mind must've wandered somewhere else, cuz there sure weren't any inserts in it 😂

[@RRINTHESHOP]

Nice job Keith. Worked out great. Thank you.

[@davidrussell8689]

Just made 8 small dovetail slides out of grey cast using the same old 4 set screws for the gib method . Basically a copy of a SETCO guide . One detail I think you missed is that that spot facing should be “ flat bottom “ and at 90 degrees to the grub screw . Doesn’t make much difference but anyway a you’ve done a wonderful job . Thanks for sharing

[@bobbyvance6622]

Using shim stock on a surface grinder will help in getting items flat. Place various size shim stock to take up space grind and flip it over and grind the other side and will usually end up with a flat part.

[@NICOSTONES]

That what I thought too...because flipping the parts several time while grinding doesn't make the part straight....but on the other hand for the purpose of the part it doesn't really matters if it's a bit bend

[@ellieprice363]

Old tool maker trick. On surface ground parts that require a good finish on both sides use wax paper on the chuck to prevent pull-off scratches.

[@rickpalechuk4411]

This has been a great series Keith, looking forward to seeing some big chips soon. Thanks for sharing, Cheers

[@rossfudd256]

I think the half moon you got after center punching, was from the top edge of the center punch. They are intended for flat transfer, on an angle like the gib was at, I was surprised the point hit at all.

[@millomweb]

Indicating the correct position for the divots !! Actually, it only needed one doing - to stop the gib sliding out.

[@johnwaby4321]

Nice work 👍👍

[@ettumama]

You are a madman. "I took this over to the surface plate and scraped it in"

[@stuartschaffner9744]

Yeah, I was thinking that he might take it over to the surface plate and lap it slightly. However, on further thought I realized that a scraped surface would make a much nicer bearing surface. This guy's got class.

[@millomweb]

@@stuartschaffner9744 So why would a scraped surface be better than a plain one which would effectively give a greater bearing surface ?

[@millomweb]

@@NeilAbalone I understand that argument but as the oil being used should have good capillary attraction, a smooth surface should slide better - like bald tyres do in the wet !

[@stuartschaffner9744]

@@millomweb , very good points. Keith and others have done several videos on scraping. As far as I understand from watching them, there are several factors. First, super smooth flat metal surfaces tend to stick together. Try putting clean dry gauge blocks together. Second, steel is pretty strong compared to the loads being put on it in this case. The slight ridges on a scraped surface provide, in this case, plenty of bearing surface. Any extra just increases the sliding friction. Finally, the little valleys between the ridges serve as an oil reservoir and channels to help oil to flow.

[@millomweb]

@@stuartschaffner9744 The idea is to provide lube so they don't wring together ! The bearing surface is supposed to be oil, not steel !

[@skipshutes994]

Love to watch your channel. My brother and I both worked at Wells Index in 70/80’s. He worked in scrapping dept I was in special assembly, where electrical and electronics was installed. Thanks for the memories

[@260nob9]

Nice and Enjoyed that!... Many thanks for sharing!!!

[@mattomon1045]

Mr. Rucker Your hammer stills works great ! thank you for showing how to make the Gib

[@johnopalko5223]

It's nice to see your cat feeling so confident and comfortable in your shop, even amidst the loud, growly machines.

[@elsdp-4560]

THANK YOU...for sharing. Watched and enjoyed.

[@fabioth283]

Nice job

[@garybendickson7262]

Well Done I like the plate in the vise might have to make one of those.

[@MrPatdeeee]

Good show Keith.

[@the_hate_inside1085]

Never really seen a metal planer in action, will be fun to watch how it functions!

[@Dean5073]

As always i enjoyed your video

[@protospace270]

That is the greatest hammer I've ever seen. So well used, haha.

[@danielatbasementtech]

Really effective close up video, especially on the dovetail milling. Perfect level of detail.

[@sandrammer]

Love it when a plan comes together!

[@timeckelmann1196]

With the surface grinder try placing shims under the "curved part every inch or two. Block the part in on the left side with material that has been ground flat and smooth. Turn on the electromagnetic chuck then turn the chuck off and grind using residual magnetism. Residual is not always strong enough with parts that are rough which is why it is important to use the ground blocking. The flater and smoother the blocking the better it will be able to grip the chuck.

[@russterman1]

My thoughts exactly, (woodworkers do this on a planer sled !), the way he is doing it is just chasing out the error, instead of rectifying it from the start !

[@timeckelmann1196]

@@russterman1 The way Keith ground the part clearly works. However in my experience flipping multiple times works rather slowly and only for small errors. Bigger errors I have found are easier to correct like I explained previously. That said if the part is out .03" typically I would dust it off with a face mill. However there have been times when I have taken .250" off a piece of steel 27" lg and 1.125" wide with the surface grinder as I did not have a good face mill. My Bridgeport and my CNC mill where set up for other things and I could set the grinder up and walk away and and let it run unattended with auto down feed.

[@ohhpaul7364]

When you were using the transfer punch to mark the holes, I was wondering to myself if the angle of the gib was great enough that the edge of the punch would touch the gib before the center point of the punch. I believe that may be the half moon mark you saw on the gib. Thanks for the videos, I have really enjoyed this rebuild.

[@craigtreleaven7560]

And when drilling the dimple in the gib, should it not have been held at the same 45 degree angle? Otherwise, it seems like the screw will push the gib down as much as across.

[@maggs131]

Most people uploading a how to video probably would have edited out the part where your face mill came apart causing a mistake. I believe you kept it in for several reasons because accidents happen to even the best and personally I think mistakes teach us just as much as our successes

[@millomweb]

I wouldn't call it an accident - but I know what you mean. In another video, he hit the tailstock with the carriage knocking the centre out of the work and carried on for a bit before noticing and refitting the centre into the end of the work. Hitting th tailstock with the carriage was an accident ! Not sufficiently tightening the arbor was a mistake.

[@kaydog2008]

Wow Keith your lead hammer needs a TLC remelt. Great job on your mill enjoyed watching.

[@nigeleaton5715]

I saw the face mill drop on the first pass and thought "What the heck was that?". Nice to see even Keith can drop a ball from time to time. :)

[@millomweb]

Dropping a ball is precisely what happens when your nuts aren't tight enough.

[@homeryoung7436]

Keith, the elephant you spoke of at the beginning of the project is down to a few small bites. Can’t wait to see the chips. What’s next? I’d like to see more of the new K and T.

[@mkeyser]

Hi Keith, after the scraper is running and finished, you could use some new lead hammers, and take a look around the shop for tools in need of up-keep, we all have them. I got a bunch of drills that need emergency TLC!

[@neilmcgarry6251]

Cool project.

[@oldschool1993]

For a dog point set screw you need to set the gib up at the dovetail angle and put your dimples in with an end mill so the dog point has a flat surface to press against. Going in against a drill bit dimple will force the gib down and cause it to drag on the surface of the carriage. I wonder if those screws are original- I can't imaging being able to maintain the adjustment without a jam nut to keep them from backing out.

[@melshea2276]

Awesome videos bright and early!!🛠

[@tomboysen7592]

I thought I seen the cutter drop. I really enjoy your vidioes Tom from Nebraska

[@DAKOTANSHELBY]

Keith, please add machine oil to the sliding Gibb upon final assembly. Thank you for all you do for us!

[@millomweb]

I'm sure he will. I do think a lot of YT machinists (& others?) need to oil their machines more often. They're really good at removing swarf and tidying up but not often you see them lubing - such as the leadscrew prior to threading.

[@bcbloc02]

Looks like Keith must have hit a sale on bandsaw blades. :-)

[@walterpollard3246]

By placing a bowed nonflat part on parallels then tapping it down with your lead hammer you bend the part into compliance with your parallels. Then you milled it flat ?, when you release the vice your part will bow back. The best approach to this would have been to check the part on your surface plate and determine the bow that would have rested on the ends of your parallels then place the piece on your parallels in your vice in this position. Do not tap it down- you do not want to bend your part. Take light milling cuts to flatten this side. Recheck this milled side on your surface plate to see if it came out flat, if it is flip the part over on the parallels and you can now tap the part down to your parallels. This would have avoided chasing your tail getting the bow out. You have a great site and I love what you do, I just wanted to point something out.

[@byronwatkins2565]

I would put a shim under the middle to keep the magnet from deforming the part. Given the upward force of the dovetail cutter, the third clamp probably is necessary in this thin part to prevent upward deflection in the center. If you turn the rounded side of your flat washers toward your clamps, the washers will not mar your clamps.

[@FrancisoDoncona]

What a sad lead hammer, time for a refresh.

[@humancattoy7767]

How are your shop kitties doing? I hope they're as precocious as ever.

[@tpobrienjr]

Did you see the Cat Scan early in the video? :-)

[@billmorris2613]

That is a very interesting looking hammer you are tapping down the flat bar with. It looks like a cave man made it.

[@billmorris2613]

Perinne Thanks.

[@57BAwagon]

When machining flat plate I would take a skim cut then flip it over and skim the other side, then continue machining and then flip it over and finish to size.

[@RobertKohut]

Nice!!

[@wi11y1960]

Hurrah! This vid didnt put me to sleep.

[@ron827]

I "kinda" enjoy all of Keith's videos.

[@WilliamTMusil]

Hiya Keith

[@t.d.mich.7064]

Shim up under the bow to make things flat. You can flip it 10 times and still be warped! Machining 101!

[@catfishgray3696]

GREAT JOB, GREAT VIDEO, PAT THE SHOP CAT ON THE HEAD FOR MY... ( NOW LET'S GO TO WORK )

[@WobblycogsUk]

Interesting you put it in the surface grinder as you did. With wood I'd have put it so the curve was up in the middle and shimmed it so the magnet didn't pull it down. Then you could grind the curve out of it without risk of putting spring into it. Maybe it's different with metal.

[@roseroserose588]

"just tapping it with a lead hammer" or what's left of one! That tool's definitely seen some use :O

[@aserta]

He'll probably recast it soon. He has a couple (i think) of videos on casting those hammers.

[@darkhorsegarage9623]

It’s a lead hamburger

[@LILLJE]

I wouldn’t use anything with lead as a tool after watching that horrible video here on KZbin, search for “toddler lead paint”. Sure it’s not that extreme but still... lead I keep away.

[@roseroserose588]

@@LILLJE I believe lead is ""mostly fine"" when not in powder form, in that actually ingesting it is quite difficult (unless someone gets tempted to lick their lead hammer repeatedly... in which case god help us). That being said, I would definitely go for plastic/copper/leather for a soft hammer before lead, hadn't realised they were so common!

[@LILLJE]

@@roseroserose588 I know it’s kind of irrational fear in this case but still I wouldn’t be able to live with myself if something happens. It’s not so much what I would do, like you say the worst thing would be that you’d lick your fingers or something. But what others could do... and where it ends up... So many variables that makes me worried, haha

[@millomweb]

Transfer punching down the adjustment holes - depends what the ends of the adjusting screws are like - fine if they have really pointed ends but if the ends are relatively blunt, you need a similarly blunt transfer punch so that you know the vertical offset of where the dimples need to be to hold the gib from sliding out !

[@millomweb]

A couple of comments in one - Firstly, I note on the vertical operations you keep moving the quill down - removing rigidity to the setup - rather than raising the table - which would have been the better option and may be nearer a better working height for you ! Secondly, you mention about the benefit of the 'palette' for mounting the work - well I'm not seeing anything there that you couldn't do mounting directly to the table.

[@markthompson4885]

I think you were right the first time. The Iron was still in a plastic state when it was extruded the the die to give it the shape it solidified in.

[@timetable620]

Put a stack of feeler gages under the spring areas of the part and than grind it and you will get rid of the spring

[@midcenturymachine5307]

I notice your 'indents' for the gib screws were drilled square to the world. Some of the gibs on some of my machines are a 1/2 moon shape as they were milled (as opposed to drilled) at the angle of the gib. In your case that would be 45 degrees. It seems a minor detail but the bottom or pressure end of the screws would be resting on a flat surface. Was the original you had a simple dimpled like the one you made? And, does it matter either way in your opinion?

[@geneard639]

I can't wait for the next exciting episode! (do we get decoder rings?)

[@bestfriendhank1424]

You need to have Mr Pete make you a renewed lead hammer.

[@watchjaredwork1487]

Man I can’t wait to see this thing make chips!

[@greavous93]

I liked the part when you realized you screwed up and then owned it. Not editing that out made your error educational and I thank and applaud that! In wood working, Id had taken that bowed piece to the jointer and flattened out the bow, why did you not do something similar if the idea of thousands of dollars of tools and equipment results in bowed parts? I know the question sounds like im being an ass but Im really just asking a question and looking to understand the thought process used.

[@matthewperlman3356]

When you first started cutting with that face mill I thought it sounded like something was loose; I was thinking an insert before it dropped, but then you found that center bolt had let the whole assembly come down.

[@charlieromeo7663]

Keith, have you thought about spot facing the gib where the adjustment screws contact it? I noticed when rebuilding the turret on my Hardinge DSM the straight gib has this feature. I don’t think Hardinge would have done it if it wasn’t beneficial. Just a thought.

[@Mishn0]

Could cutting on direction loosen the fastener as opposed to cutting in the other direction?

[@MrRedstoner]

It's clearly keyed, so I'd rather suspect it wasn't tightened enough and the extra vibration (from chatter) helped it.

[@alun6362]

In the first milling operation, could the chatter be reduced by cutting at the edge of the end mill, rather than the centre? That should send the majority of the cutting forces along the axis of the part, rather than across it where the forces are trying to bend the part.

[@leeroyholloway4277]

I tend to favor some cuts in that manner and get better results.

[@foreveryoursbk01]

I was wondering if I could use longer parallels or precision ground flat stock that was longer so that I would get a more precision cut and less chatter on the setup that you showed versus using machinist jacks

[@robertbamford8266]

Great video. Especially extruded vs continuous casting. Is there anything other than checking during machine start up that will keep the gib set screws tight?

[@TheOzIcedog]

Hi Keith, what stops the set screws working loose during operation? Keep up the good work

[@StreuB1]

To those new to machining and watching this, some words of advice. I know this is not a how-to, but people that are new, watch this and copy the person they are watching. Good habits and the bad habits. 1. Always deburr your part when you remove it from the vise and flip it over (smooth file!). Those burrs will nearly always find themselves under the part and between your parallels pushing it up at an angle. 2. You also want to actually clean your chips off of the parallels, the chips that fall onto the parallels when you removed the part. Chips have thickness, even cast iron dust. 3. Before you clamp your part, make sure your parallels are standing up straight and not cocked at an angle. Parallels at an angle have cosine error and will stand your part taller than a flat parallel. It might not seem like much but a 2"H parallel with a 0.005" chip under one corner or cocked at an angle will raise your part up a considerable amount. Tapping it with a mallet after its clamped will NOT flatten the parallel out since its now in a bind. It will only hammer a groove into your finish all the while making your new cut no longer parallel as you intended it to be.

[@justinl.3587]

This guy is a hacker. His entire channel is a big example of how not to do things. I still find it interesting, though. I do feel like he could be better at what he does, he does a lot of these things for himself. But there are people who watch these videos and I am sure they try to do what he does and they ruin things. Within the first 6 minutes of the video I was laughing at all the lack of proper techniques and practices.

[@headmaxify]

I don't see how flipping the part would help in any way to eliminate the spring. Wouldn't you need to flatten one side while the piece is in it's curved state to actually remove the curve?

[@mjk8710]

Hey Keith 3 x morse pizza boxes in background 🎉 party on sir! 😂

[@larryshaw6517]

I tried to holler at you when the face mill fell off the end but ya didn't hear me lol. But it turned out ok . Thanks

[@oleanderson3693]

Machinist jacks under the unsupported ends when milling? Yea, needed shims under the bow while grinding to eliminate problem. You will never get it out otherwise.

[@millomweb]

I noticed the absence of jacks too. The mag chuck was holding it flat down - o no issue there but he should have stuck (pun) with the flat side down until he'd got the top surface equally flat.

[@climberjb]

He scraped it in? So it must be close enough to flat?

[@millomweb]

@@climberjb "close enough to flat" is rather subjective !

[@spareparts007]

He never got the gib flat, it was parallel sided but still bowed when he finish fitted it, as usual with no lube..

[@millomweb]

@@spareparts007 At what timestamp was that ?

[@marklatham5692]

Did you notice at minute 7:00 how that cutter dropped down about 250 thou as it dropped off the end of the piece? Is that normal for that kind of cutter?

[@marklatham5692]

Shoulda watched on a bit, good thing that cutter didn't come flyin' off!

[@brianlovatt3289]

Keith, keep saying 'extruded' as you're still grammatically right. To extruded is to 'force out', the material is forced out under pressure from the molten material surely? Love the channel, love your enthusiasm, even if I'm completely lost on the American imperial measurements! 😄👍

[@ronaldhorne5106]

It might be closer to a pultrusion since they probably control the speed the metal is removed from the die, rather than the rate the material is fed to the die as when extruding.

[@geoffmorgan6059]

I'm sure you've seen this old school trick. If you have a questionable thickness section (such as "wavy") use a piece of thin cardboard between the movable jaw and the workpiece. Makes for better clamping and less strain on the vise.

[@Mike-pr8hx]

No worries about the slight boo, boo. Even the best machinist make an error now and then. We've all been there and done that...

[@ericmcrae7758]

I am curious as to why you didn't support the ends with a couple of jacks, when you were grinding it was bowing like mad, so did it get flat?

[@billmorris2613]

Good morning from St John Parish, Louisiana, 30 Nov 20.

[@Unrivaledanime]

Do you have a job planed for that metal planer when it is completed. i would love to see it run.

[@millomweb]

I'm sure we'll be seeing it 'warming up' and working for real in due course.

[@millomweb]

Gib adjusting screws, - well if you're going to have to make 1, make 4 and make them long enough to take a locknut. First time I've seen gib screws without a locknut ! OK, so that's not how it was but I rate this change as a 'permitted improvement' ! It could have been done back in the day.

[@IslandHermit]

I'd think that thinning out that material would be a perfect job for a shaper.

[@russelldold4827]

Yes, or maybe even a planer 🤔😉

[@aw738]

Can shims be used on the surface grinder to help get the bow out of parts? Also could you use a magnetic chuck on the milling machine if you had another one?

[@mattm7535]

Watch the drop at 7:00.

[@waynep343]

I wonder if the old gib broke from the repeated impacts of the cutter tool focusing the force on one gib screw tip. I am still mid video but I would make that gib as tight a fit as I could without the screws to give it the best chance of survival and the tightest fit for the Clapper box. Using the gib screws to keep it in position not to adjust the dovetail lash

[@jdmccorful]

Looking good.

[@jobkneppers]

Keith, you are using Duracast. I'm not familiar with this material. Is it completely stress free? Otherwise I would machine it symmetrical to the centerline. And I also would use some machinist jacks to support the ends. Or buy a longer piece for support on the bed directly. Deburring before you flip the part wouldn't hurt either. And skimming before grinding is also a good idea. It won't matter when squeezed down at it's final place because it seams to be flexible enough to swing to the right place when tightening up the guide screws. Dear Keith sorry about being picky but this episode looks somehow sloppy to me compared to your other work. I hope it's not a motivation problem ;-) Thank you for all your wonderful uploads; I really enjoy watching them (maybe a small tip on the side; don't put your microphone under your nose. I should lose some weight, just as you, but the panting sometimes scares me...) Thank you Keith! Love your work and I'm only trying to improve it a little bit. Best, Job

[@DavoShed]

Looks like your hammer has been around the block a few times :)

[@joeblow7160]

Do you have a picture of your lead hammer when it was new?

[@russelldold4827]

If you're going to mess up, do it early, so there's still enough material to recover!

[@BobOBob]

Two ways even! In the long run, just about that much had to come off the length as well.

[@clintonwiles5451]

I noticed about 7:02 that the head dropped when it cleared the stock

[@malcolmtill]

Is this an example of the stress being relieved from the material when one side is machined ?

[@airgead5391]

Don't think so, it is from the parts sticking out when milled.

[@WhatAboutTheBee]

@@airgead5391 Yes, deflection of a cantilevered beam under load

[@ronalddavis]

no its an example of ray charles cutting it

[@tenaxxband]

thats so irritating when stuff like that happens. i was machining a B&S #9 adapter today for a boring head and somehow when boring the internal taper i screwed up. i should've had .030" more to bore, but i was over by a few thousandths somehow. that would've wasted a lot of time, but i rescued it by sleeving it and boring it out again.

[@CathyInBlue]

10:30 Why wouldn't you run a file over those edges to debur before flipping the part over? 23:00 Why would you risk a set of parallels rather than just clamp the part over the near edge of the pallet?

[@RambozoClown]

4:36 What does your existing shop cat think of the new kittens?

[@glenndrives109]

The old cat passed away.

[@garylyon2867]

What happened to shop dog, the golden retriever?

[@aaronrroy]

I am not a machinist but I have a question. When working on the thickness, could you have used the superglue trick on to a fixture plate, like what you used for the dove tail. Since masking tape is used you will not get glue on your fixture plate. It may save some time at the grinder. I know there are always many ways to do the same things. Thanks for the video

[@coconutpie333]

would a magnetic chuck work to hold on the mill ?

[@coconutpie333]

@@flat-earther confused why you would repeat my question without answer

[@wmcwings4343]

I get that the total length isn't THAT critical, but after all of that machining you free hand cut the length on a band saw! That would send my OCD into overdrive.

[@markmossinghoff8185]

That piece has everything. It's got hand scraping, a ground surface, milling machine marks, and a rough saw cut! Oh yeah, and drill marks too.

[@jrb_sland5066]

14:13 When you switch off the mag, the left hand end of the workpiece visibly lifts off the table.

[@iamthetarget52]

4:34 Shop Assistant

[@MrRedstoner]

Boss you mean?

[@mkegadgets4380]

Wood machines jacks on the mill stop it from chattering?

[@peterparsons3297]

Face mill problems, i had the same one arbor and two facemills, i put it on meaning to tighten it when i had it in the mill but forgot ha ha