Milling 8-Foot Steel Bars: Metal Planer Turned Milling Machine In Action

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Have you ever converted or upgraded old machines for new purposes? Share your stories and tips in the comments below!

[@MyLilMule]

That planer is one of those machines that a lot of shops would mistakenly get rid of because it takes up too much space or is inefficient, but there is no other machine in the typical job shop that would be able to machine this. The Bridgeport head, the motor drive, the DRO makes it a lot more efficient and worth keeping around.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Absolutely. It has brought in a lot of work for me. The first time I ran this job, I didn't have the Planer. I did it all on the BP in stages. Talk about slow.

[@neilmchardy9061]

The planer would have been a lot quicker but your set up makes it very adaptable. I’m also surprised at the fact that it can climb mill, says a lot for its bed and drive. P.S. I say the planer might have been quicker.

[@TheJohndeere466]

I would do that job on a Van norman milling machine with the tilting 50 taper head. It would only do about half the length but then you just slide it and keep milling. A 50 taper head is atleast 3 times more rigid than that bridgeport head. We were milling 2" 45 degree chamfers last week just a couple passes on each one.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

@TheJohndeere466 good for you that you can do that. I used to do it that way. This is faster.

[@TheJohndeere466]

@@TopperMachineLLC Not than a van norman. Believe me.

[@stephenbridges2791]

I think it's great that you have an apprentice. Imparting just a small amount of your skill to that young man is well worth the effort.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

It has been very rewarding and frustrating at the same time. Lol

[@gday9258]

Tough setup over the length

[@bcbloc02]

8ft the limit of travel on my hbm so it would be pushing it for me to mill these in one setup. Nice you have that old machine that is capable of doing the job most shops can't. 😀

[@danluther9078]

Talk about serendipity -- I was watching Keith Rucker's video from yesterday morning as he used his 1890-something metal planer to complete the bevel on his cast-iron straight edges, and I had the thought "why don't you mount an articulating milling head on that and make it into a milling machine with an 8-foot bed" -- and here Josh Topper is using one.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

While the mill head is useful, I really wish it were still a planer.

[@bwyseymail]

@@TopperMachineLLC How hard would it be to switch the BP head for a clapper box? Or is the table drive just not strong enough to drive the table as a planer?

[@TheJohndeere466]

We have a 20' planer and about all we use it for poking internal keyways. Some of them over 3' deep.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

@bwyseymail the drive was removed and something different installed. It wouldn't handle the load.

[@ellieprice363]

@@TheJohndeere466Do you use custom HSS broaches to machine those long internal keyways? If so do you use a push or a pull broach with hydraulic power? Just curious, 😢always learning. Thanks.

[@jamesbonnema1041]

I make specialty hand railings, and im jealous of that 8' bed. Nice work,and vid! Thank you

[@51ubetcha]

I haven't seen an old milking pail in a long time. Those used to be operated by vacuum and had a four unit cup that attached to the cows utters.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Retired from milking service and is now my coolant mining pail. My cousin milked with these until the early 2000s

[@davidjohannson4364]

@@51ubetcha the spelling is UDDERS and TEATS are what the 4 rubber cups are attached to on the cow. I spent a lot of time in the milking parlor

[@51ubetcha]

You are correct in my misspelling. I also spent my youth helping my Grandfather and uncle on their farm. I learned how to milk by hand, shovel manure by hand, and spent many summers on the hay wagon and up in the barn in the .mow.

[@JoeBachmann-ry7wm]

@@51ubetcha some of the old timers in our area repurposed those old milking machines to make a tasty adult beverage….

[@hmw-ms3tx]

I like the length capacity of that machine. I used to do a lot of facemilling on my Bridgeport (as it was my only milling machine in the early days). One thing that seemed to help with the chatter was to move the facemill over so the entering side was just slightly overhanging the work (the opposite to what you have in this video). When it is done that way the chip load as the insert enters the work is at a minimum and then thickens as the insert passes through the cut. It greatly reduces the shock load on the insert and seems to quiet things down considerably. Another thing that helps is if you can keep at least two inserts in the cut at any time (I think you had that in this video). I am envious of your ability to have that length capacity in a relatively small footprint. Ken

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I got that for the follow-up video. I remembered what I was doing wrong and changed my setup.

[@Brian55126]

Yes it helps so much to direct the cutting forces into the length of the material rather then the narrow width especially with much thinner parts.

[@edsmachine93]

Nice work Josh. I really like watching the planer run. Does a nice job. Thanks for sharing. Have a great weekend. 👍🇺🇸👍

[@ron827]

You and your shop are a true gift to your community.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Too bad they don't know it. Lol

[@frankerceg4349]

Thank you Josh!

[@stevechambers9166]

Every time I see you use that machine it’s just wow what a piece of kit cheers josh 👍👍👍

[@TopperMachineLLC]

@@stevechambers9166 it sure is.

[@anthonyrivers8395]

That’s a cool machine. Puts you on top of the food chain.😂❤ and the repeat work is the icing on the cake❤😂.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Absolutely. I had 3 customers taking full advantage of it's capacity, but with businesses closing, I'm down to one.

[@sky173]

That's an amazing machine. I sure wish I could stuff one of those into my shop, lol. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us. Very inspirational.

[@aceroadholder2185]

Worked with a planer a bit bigger with a Bridgeport head back in the 80s. Used Dayton variable speed gear reduced motors and roller chain to drive the input to the bull gear and travel dials on the bed and cross head. Worked with a very large Ingersol planer with a 20-foot bed and two Bridgeport heads on the cross beam. This planer had a diagonal screw drive to the bed instead of a bull wheel. Had a large powered rotary table mounted on the planer bed. The machine was used for building jigs for large shroud components used on GE jet engines.

[@RalfyCustoms]

Howdy Josh, love the planer buddy, proper job as always, thank you for sharing, have a wonderful weekend

[@alandawson2813]

Wow another awesome video Josh. From kiwi land.

[@AmateurRedneckWorkshop]

Thanks for the video keep on keeping on.

[@charleswelch249]

That's a great machine for your operation. I always love working with cold roll steel. Much nicer chips and finish, IMO. Plus, you don't have the hard spots. Cool project, Josh.

[@mudnducs]

Nice idea putting a milling head on that planer! Tell Keith!

[@glennmoreland6457]

I have a machine a bit like that here in the UK. ........it was built as a milling machine from new... Designed to run off flat belts and lineshafts.... About 1895ish.. Good video ☹️🇬🇧

[@grege2383]

Another great video, keep them coming

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Will do.

[@ImolaS3]

What a machine!!!!

[@seldendaniel8819]

The door must be cool!

[@flpanhead]

Strange to see a planer bed move so slow. Id like to see how that is driven now. I have a 12" Sheldon shaper and I like seeing the shaper's big brother.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Check out the older videos of it.

[@ellieprice363]

What an interesting and novel way to machine long steel bars. Possibly the only modified planer. like that in existence? I was about to ask if you use stress relieved material for that job but you answered my question near the end.

[@Laura-wc5xt]

Thanks Josh. Paulie in orlando

[@baronclime6423]

With that setup on the planer base I think you get the best of both worlds. A huge bed and a milling head. Hey it rhymes, sue me lol. I do remember we had one in my high school shop and our teacher was showing us some of the more specialized things that could be done with it like making odd shaped holes and some other things I am unable to remember right now. What I'm curious about is the door those rails are meant to support. Some kind of industry I'm guessing but what would need a door that weighs 10k pounds? It's early morning for me so I may thnk of something later. Still got the morning ugh brain..

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Forest products.

[@wmweekendwarrior1166]

Good Stuff

[@alanm3438]

Thanks for the video. I remember when you cleaned and painted that machine. I am glad that you double checked the angle. I am glad that you are willing to share your skills with the videos. Your videos allow me see things that I would never have the chance to see. You are a great man.

[@arimadx]

Good thing you caught that angle being off. Ya, they say measure twice cut once. I worry so much that i usually measure three or four times and cut once 😂

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Yeah, I do that too. When doing angles, I always get my meausrement, set it up, then look at it to see if it's right. Make first cut and measure. I know what I did wrong here with measuring it. Easy mistake.

[@erik_dk842]

I cut off too little three times, and then too much in the 4th cut

[@arimadx]

@@erik_dk842 😂

[@mfc4591]

Anchorlube as far as I can ascertain, is mostly just soap. Don't try and use it in the shower though ! Nice work even if the bit was a bit blunt, (no alliteration intended).

[@waynep343]

I wonder if the squeeze type shoe polish bottle with a angled pad could be used with Anchor lube for large areas

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Maybe thinned down. Be worth a try. I usually use a brush.

[@SettledBatches]

Your customer would have to search quite a bit to find a shop capable of approaching what you can offer with that machine. Hate to think of the set-up time required to cut it in accurate segments. 9:56 - Measure twice, cut once!

[@jrmintz1]

Cool video, as always! Have you ever done anything about the cold air machine? I'd like to know more about them. Thanks.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

@jrmintz1 I've explained it before. Just a venturi that separates the heat out the back. They aren't terribly expensive

[@aivansama6265]

As you said, in this case it doesn't matter if the part is bit bent. How do you prevent the bending if the part is required to be true after the milling?

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Mill all sides.

[@Hyratel]

Blondihacks talks about this effect in a recentish video on the A3 switcher connecting rods. Asymmetrical tension removal. Can heat relax it (difficult at this size) or just clamp and secure it stronger than its deflection

[@calvincoolidge5545]

The best way to prevent warping after milling is to use hot rolled steel instead of cold rolled steel. The cold rolled steel has internal stress that is relieved when you machine on one side. Alternatively, you could thermally stress relieve the bar prior to machining.

[@CothranMike]

@@calvincoolidge5545 and you have access to an oven that large? So true. It can be rosebud heated and reclamped many times as well. Slow but doable.

[@aivansama6265]

Thanks for the replies!

[@rmorganii]

Hi Josh...question from a non-machinist...does it matter if you take the face mill cut first verses the end mill cut? Thanks...love your video!

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I've done it both ways. End mill first makes less bow, so easier to clamp for next operation

[@rmorganii]

Got it!...thanks

[@stevemarschman3202]

An old Darex E-90 with a diamond cup wheel would sharpen that end mill. Probably not worth the time and money for you, but very handy on a Friday afternoon when all the supply houses are closed for the weekend. If you ever find one that isn't too expensive, maybe consider adding to your collection.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

It's really not worth it to sharpen cutters in house. The cost to send one out is minimal. Realistically, by the time you set up to sharpen and get one end mill done, you've lost more time than it would cost to send it out or buy new.

[@neilmchardy9061]

I machined a stainless tail tying unit at 5foot long stainless forging it distorted worse than that and had to be straightened and annealed several times.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Some materials are worse than others.

[@dyoung3536]

I always see you measuring, checking on the lthe and mill. Would be interested to see or learn how you measured this thing with those angles. I dislike working w/angles, just seems like they're harder to dial in for me.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

It's always fun.

[@P.G.Biskup]

I like your setup for a converted planer mill. I used to run one with a hydraulic head. Substantially more power than this setup but so much less versatile.

[@chrisburbank6484]

Were you at the St.Peter"s dome/ Morgon's falls trail Saturday ? I noticed the back of a shirt that had Topper machine while chasing down the 5 yr old grand kid on the bridge , then thought that really looked like you.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Yes, that was us. My wife and I and the in-laws. Lol.

[@TheAyrCaveShop]

Very interesting 👍 definitely one of a kind or a few of kind milling/planer machine. Always enjoy seeing it run. Would be interesting to know what kind of doors they’re hanging or running on those. I’m guessing some type of large oven. Thanks for sharing Josh 👍 ATB……

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Not an oven. Just a wood mill.

[@TheJohndeere466]

@@TheAyrCaveShop we have an ingersol planer mill that is factory. I think it travels about 12'. It has 3 milling heads. One on top and one on each side.

[@gregdawson1909]

Guessing that's 1018, we make a bunch of products out of it that require a weldment and machining. After we got some that wreaked havoc on our insert drills ability to break and clear a chip we started watching the material certs and found that low sulfur and high aluminum content in the 1018 was the earmark for steel that did not work well with our processes. Keep a folder with the certs in it, mark them good / bad and why and then see what the differences are, its easy to do and you don't need to be a genius metallurgical chemist to see a trend. Now when we go shopping for steel we ask for certs, and check them against what we know does not work well for us. Point is, if a job you have done a million times stops acting normal its probably not you or your tooling.

[@johnreese3943]

If you switched to a high positive rake face mill your metal removal rate would improve and chatter would be less. An integral shank cutter would reduce stick out and improve rigidity. Als o, on your last cut with the face mill, change your direction of cut to eliminate burrs on the back side of the bar.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

The bug thing to remember is that I only have 1HP to work with and a little R8 spindle.

[@BrucePierson]

That's an interesting job, it must be the longest job you ever get to do. I was wondering how you were going to hold the bar on the bed with having to machine the top, but it was about how I thought you would.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Old school side clamps.

[@seabreezecoffeeroasters7994]

I have a new bigger Router planned for next year with about 1.8m side rails to face off and bolt the Linear Rails down to. Trying to do this on my Mill with only 650mm of bed travel and a 1000mm bed is going to be painful. Shipping from Oz to the USA is not an option 😉

[@pdxRetired]

Would the finished bars relax back to "straight" if they were annealed again?

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I have no idea. Probably not.

[@eyuptony]

Great to see the old planer/mill in work again Josh. How come the table working height is so low to the ground? Have you ever thought of raising the machine up to a working height which suits your back better, with you being so tall?

[@TopperMachineLLC]

The table is that low because that is the way it was built. I have not even considered raising it as it's a once every few months machine. No issues with it at all.

[@eyuptony]

@@TopperMachineLLC Good to hear. Great to see the old machine is still able to earn its keep today. 👍

[@davidaarons2488]

Nice machine, curious, I have a smaller face mill, I use on a cheap China mill (don't laugh, LOL), but it has round carbide inserts, any difference in cut, smooth or rougher ? Just a hobby and am not a real machinist, by any stretch.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

It really depends on what you're doing. A round insert will take more HP to cut as there will be more cutting surface. I like these 45°square cutters.

[@davidaarons2488]

@@TopperMachineLLC Thanks Josh

[@markvoluckas4571]

I love the round insert mills for rough work cleaning up torch cuts or rough castings they definitely take abuse.

[@StuartsShed]

👍

[@randymusselman4504]

Josh, I have a question on the ATW planer design. You are milling 8ft in a single set up. You need at least a 16 foot floor space for full table travel. Is the planer bed a full 16 ft or does the table overhang on the ends at full extreme travel each way? Very unique capability without having an absolutely gargantuan machine Ty Randy

[@TopperMachineLLC]

While in operation it takes about 18 feet of space. The machine itself is about 12 feet long. The table overhang either end about 2.5-3 feet

[@luksan_swe]

Why don't they harden the rail if it wears out regularly? Or put som kind of replacable hard wearing material on top?

[@TopperMachineLLC]

A 2 year life span is really good for these. Considering this heavy door is going up and down once every minute and having logs slammed against it. It's just normal maintenance.

[@arimadx]

I agree. Maybe have some sort of brass wear strips or something would be smart

[@TopperMachineLLC]

@@arimadx brass would never handle the shock loads. This is the best design that has been found.

[@CothranMike]

@@arimadx for a wear surface with rolling glass doors a replacement shim/wear plate (rolled to the right shape of course) is used for home maintenance. I have replace it twice, once when the extruded aluminum threshold portion wore out, and once since then. It was inexpensive for what it did and worked well. Around .030 thick it will fit even if there is no wear and I have seen it installed on new sliding glass doors, double hung, double glazed weight required it from the factory, cut to fit on site and laid over the bottom rail. I think it was a 300 series stainless but who knows, they didn't at Lowe's where I saw the materials ready to go.

[@bmlennox]

do you have a notebook where you keep track of feeds/speeds for repetive jobs? saves time reinventing the wheel every time...

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Absolutely

[@phlodel]

Is the table on the planer hydraulically driven?

[@schorse1000]

It has a DC motor with variable speed. There's an older video where he shows and explain it.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

No, gear rack.

[@DB-thats-me]

Question. You used a bead of Ancorlube on the first bevel, why not on the face cut? 😳

[@TopperMachineLLC]

No real need with the face mill. It runs better dry.

[@DB-thats-me]

@@TopperMachineLLC Cool, thanks. I am not a machinist but I’ve learned that you have a reason something is done a certain way. I enjoy the education. 👍

[@davidholder3207]

That was a large angle mistake you made. Good job it was spotted.

[@DonParrish-g1d]

Where is Conner going for basic training? I was in the Ky Army National Guard, and went to Fort Knox, and later to Vietnam.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Missouri

[@robertskelton2576]

So what is Conners MOS going to be?

[@TopperMachineLLC]

No clue. Haven't spoken about it.

[@waynep343]

Can the carbide cutter be reground even if it reduces the diameter since you are only using one side

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Sure it can.

[@johndebrular979]

How does the travel work on the planer/mill ?

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Check out the older videos. I explain it in detail.

[@MrHonestZ1]

Think you could have used a little lubrication or some air cooling on your passes on the clamshell cuts.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

@@MrHonestZ1 I could, but it's not necessary.

[@Rusty-Metal]

How would one go about not ended with the bow with such a machining operation?

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Great questions for a follow-up video

[@BrucePierson]

Not being familiar with this type of machine, I am wondering how the machine was converted from a planer to a mill. No doubt it has to do with the Bridgeport head. What additional modifications did you do after getting the machine? Modifying machines to suit your needs can work out really well, as this machine is really suited to this job.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Look at tye older videos. They explain the machine in more detail.

[@markramsell454]

Didn't know you could bite that much off while climbing. Guess if the feed rate is slow enough and the setup is rigid enough it can be done, as you demonstrate.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I do a lot of things that I'm told you can't do. Lol

[@BrucePierson]

I didn't see the video the last time you did this job, as it was a bit before I found your channel and subscribed, some time over two years ago. KZbin is pretty vague on when videos were posted, it would be good if they actually dated the videos instead of just listing them as "two years ago" which encompasses a 12 month period.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Just check out the Planer Mill Playlist.

[@jaybailey3518]

Josh, I noticed you sweeping up, do you ever get in trouble for tracking chips to the house ???

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Nope, I change my shoes.

[@TheJohndeere466]

If it were me, I would use a small facemill to mill the first angle

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Yes, but I'm not you. Lol

[@TheJohndeere466]

@@TopperMachineLLC Just cheaper than buying 3/4 carbide endmills. Those are pricey

[@TopperMachineLLC]

@@TheJohndeere466 ebay

[@renrutmat]

Being European I have to convert lbs into kilograms or tonnes. What kind of door weighs 5 tonnes / 10,000 lbs?

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Yes. 10,000 lbs

[@BrucePierson]

With the racket that machines make when working, it would be stupid not to use hearing protection and I did notice the ear plug in one of your ears when you turned your head. I prefer ear muffs (not sure what you call them there), as I can put them on and off as needed or not needed, depending on what I am doing. I do have hearing loss because of not using hearing protection when I was younger, as it was never mentioned when I was younger. I still see young people these days working with noisy equipment and if I mention that they should be using hearing protection or they'll end up half deaf like me, the just seem to think it's a non-issue. No doubt they will pay the price later in their life.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I wear ear plugs every day in the shop. Muffs don't work for me.

[@bazookamoose7224]

10:03 **Earplugs needed @ even 5% Volume**

[@TopperMachineLLC]

@@bazookamoose7224 I was wearing ear plugs.

[@bazookamoose7224]

@@TopperMachineLLC Which is awesome! I was saying for me though 😉

[@melmars1452]

Nice job! That has to be a government job because nobody else welds wear items into equipment. May not make sense but pays the bills.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Nope, just a big customer. I won't do government work. They are too corrupt.

[@TheAyrCaveShop]

@@TopperMachineLLC we had the same policy when I was working. You have to be corrupt and connected to make money on government jobs.

[@markvoluckas4571]

Its common to weld wear parts into many earthmoving and forestry machines, also most of the slides in garbage trucks as well are welded in wear bars. When it's wore out you cut it out and weld on new

[@smmaxey]

Keep the faith bud. Kamala would be happy if you were out of business...........and me too for that matter. That way everyone can be on welfare. Trump 2024!!!

[@amritpatel3794]

Nice modification. Where are you located?

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Spooner wisconsin