Machining a Pair of Flywheels for a Scale Model Galloway Hit & Miss Engine

[@trainsimulatordriver]

I'll likely never machine anything but I do like absorbing the problem solving from a calm knowledgeable person who loves to share. Thanks Keith.

[@diggerddawg]

I turned a wooden bowl in the 7th grade. Likely my only experience on a lathe. I gave it to my mom who passed at 96 y.o. The wooden bowl still lives though. It lives in my office to hold pencils on my work desk. I retired last week so I need to find a new place of honor for my handiwork.

[@trainsimulatordriver]

@diggerddawg fruit bowl?

[@cooperised]

There's a good reason model engineers back in the day used the faceplate a lot. Really versatile for setups, and great for reducing chatter on larger parts. It's slower than a chuck so for shops that have to make money it's fallen out of favour, but for a hobbyist it's still a great option.

[@paul5683]

I'm surprised that Keith doesn't have a vertical lathe in his collection of antique machine tools. Working on really big turned parts are sometimes easier if you're not fighting gravity.

[@richardreis6248]

Thanks for showing you struggles and solutions, all ways enjoyable to watch your content

[@jimc4731]

From the drawing there should be a tool cut at the base of the counterweight where it meets the wheel face. Probably was actually machined to a lesser width than the wheel in the original casting. Small detail, keep up the good work. JIM 🤩

[@Paul-pl4vy]

I’d refer to the hi-lighted note. The casting is not quite as per the Dwg. Keith finished the wheel using the notspe requirements.

[@gwheyduke]

Beautiful looking flywheel.

[@carrollprice1213]

I learn a lot from all your videos. Thanks.

[@peteengard9966]

A friend of mine had a similar dilemma. He did the center hub on his small lathe then did the outside on his mill using a rotary table. Worked unbelievably well. No runout or wobble. Good job dealing with the chatter.

[@edsmachine93]

Nice work Keith, the face plate was the game changer. The flywheel looks beautiful. Looks like a piece of Art Work. Makes me think I should use my face plate more.👍 Thanks for sharing. 👍🇺🇸👍

[@jimfelton1]

Keith, once again, you have worked your way around a problem. This time, it's in the shop and in the video. The audio is stable throughout the video. Thanks for all the hard work.

[@assessor1276]

Good one Keith - as soon as I saw those skinny spokes my chatter-meter jumped up!

[@noblsht]

Thanks Keith for continuously putting out videos I consistently keep looking for your videos and happy to see them every time you put them out thanks. Keep up the good work. Your videos are always interesting.

[@paulelliott2861]

Great episode Keith. The Finnish on that completed component is out standing. Thank you so much for your time and expertise. Bringing your passion each week.👏👏👏👏👏

[@user-ju3jt4pe3s]

Nice job on the flywheels. I was shouting "Use a face plate" I was always told that on castings you need to get under the hard surface of the casting with a cut that clears it all. Not just skimming the surface. That was in HSS tool days.

[@CothranMike]

That is especially true with castings where the material is not stress-relieved. The chilled iron can be very hard but the heat treatment draws the carbon back into the body from the chilled edges which helps. The soak time for this is long so expect to pay more unless you plan to do it yourself. Many suppliers offer stress-relieved for a higher price to cover the time and energy used, some include that in the cost rather than a line item, it always pays to check with the supplier and recheck when the castings come in for machining.

[@generessler6282]

Nice, Kieth. I love (also) watching the steam engine builders elsewhere on YT. For flywheels they say it's most important to spend time centering the _internal_ diameter of the rough casting because it's never machined, so determines the appearance of true running in the end, not to mention balance.

[@PioneerRifleCompany]

Great content. Regarding the chatter, I find that changing the attack angle of the tool helps tremendously; your cutting tool was running at an acute angle to the surface being cut. I can't speak directly to those flywheels, but maybe rotate the cutting tool and see what happens.

[@RIPPERTON]

The chatter pattern from the previous cut will regenerate chatter even if you have solved the cause with lower rpm or feed.

[@cannon440]

Using the face plate was the way to go. My only concern would be how much to tighten the clamps (too much, broken spokes-too little, it moves).. Nice job, keep those videos coming.

[@anthonycollin8303]

Interesting watching a rough old casting being turned into a precision machined part, thank you.

[@alanchamberlin2384]

Equipment, tooling, problem solving. You have the winning combination

[@AlanPecherer]

That was a valuable lesson, switching to the faceplate to knock out of the chatter. Thank you Keith!

[@m.searay4629]

Nice work! That finish looks great. Thanks for going the extra mile on this project to eliminate the chatter.

[@tomtke7351]

Hey KEITH-- howz about a video about how to PROPERLY clean up a lathe following a job. Do you collect shavings to later recycle? Do you use a brush? A cloth? Any cleaning solutions? Any clever strategies or techniques? When might you consider lathe paint touch up? Do you service/lubricate mechanisms every job or every 6mos, or what?

[@Paul-pl4vy]

Unless you are making tonnes of dwarf it’s not worth recycling. It will never be single material and always contaminated. A dealer wouldn’t touch it. If you are into it you could cast your own billets but you need a lot of swarf. It’s 90% air.

[@PorchPotatoMike]

Especially after cutting cast iron. It makes such a mess.

[@richardmerrill4036]

Would it have been possible to lock the wheel down on a deck and mill it? Not as pretty a finish as the lathe I suppose?

[@MrChevelle83]

i throw my swarf in the trash! and im 3 minutes from a friend that owns a scrap yard! why? it aint worth the fuel or calories id burn to move it. and hed laugh and call me an idiot. kieth lives WAY out in the country of south Georgia USA. ive visited his shop (i donated that big round bar that he poured the babbit with on the monster cane mill. if i were him id send the mess to the garbage.

[@tomtke7351]

@MrChevelle83 You all have educated me!! Left-overs aren't worth the effort. If one wants to reclaim metal, then go after abandoned ships rotting at sea!!

[@michaelleduc219]

Faceplate was a great solution, one I hadn’t thought of. I will store that chatter solution in memory for use on some frustrating project in the future. Thanks!

[@christopherhurren629]

Great to learn some things to do when you get chatter. I have moved the tool and changed speeds before but never thought about a rubber band. Good to think about limiting vibrations perpendicular to the cutting face.

[@jamesbonnema1041]

Fun video, useful tips. Thank you for your excellent video!

[@accuracymark]

hydraulic hose weaved through the spokes has worked for me in the past

[@guillermocarrillo3959]

We have seen you make up a mandrel setup before but it would have been nice to see you do the whole setup for this operation also.

[@johnritchie3889]

About the alignment of keyways. The photo showed the counterweights at 180 degrees to each other. The shaft may be milled with keyways 180 degrees apart. I would guess that alignment might be important, but I don’t know if it matters to keep the flywheels balanced.

[@russkepler]

The absolute position of the keyways doesn't matter but it needs to be the same between the flywheels. The crankshaft needs to match so that the flywheel counter weights are clocked 180 degrees from the piston.

[@llapmsp]

Thanks for another great video.

[@ssboot5663]

Good episode on chatter options! Like!! I'm glad I watched it! I learned something I wouldn't have thought of in my farm shop hobby fixing (using the faceplate)

[@carlbyington5185]

Great job Keith !!!! Here in the shop, when I was turning a brake rotor, and the chatter band wasn't doing enough for me, I would stand there with a couple of lead wheel weights (car tire weights) and hold them on the edges, worked fine.

[@samellowery]

Yeah i was thinking that or mounting a wooden arm with weight to drag on it.

[@gregmarsen8536]

@@samellowery We made a tool from two small rear disc pads held together with a coat hanger loop. This would sit on the cutter bits and fall off when the rotor was done. Helped a lot.

[@samellowery]

@@gregmarsen8536 nice sounds clunky but if it works.

[@stevem3413]

Awesome video thanks for sharing your skills and talent

[@thehammah8444]

I have enjoyed watching you knock out these small/odd jobs thanks!

[@Ervan-l9v]

Turned out to be a lot of work. Surely more than anticipated.

[@davidcperron]

The interrupted cut at first on the outside diameter was providing impulses that made the wheel ring at one if its resonant frequencies. Once that cut got to be continuous it almost certainly mitigated the ringing.

[@davidcperron]

And your solution to cutting on the faces of the outer wheel was just exactly right. The problem with the wheel, which I think you realized, is that the lightly constrained rim was vibrating like a wave going vertically with respect to the plane of the spokes. Clamping it to a faceplate was actually a better way to mitigate than I was thinking of because it also kept the hub stationary with respect to the plane of the rim and spokes.

[@johnquinn3899]

Try, try, try again. Thanks Keith for showing all these suggestions. This looks like a nice project. John

[@loch1957]

Chatter is the bane of lathe work.

[@frankdoner8402]

Like they say, if there's a will, there's a way. Thanks Keith, fine job 👍 😊

[@don4364]

Hi Keith, You could possibly try a rubber belt like that is used on a brake lathe to keep the ringing down. Harmonic ringing can be quite annoying.

[@alantrimble2881]

I agree. The Ammco 6920 disc brake silencer band (a heavy rubber band with lead weights) may have helped quell the vibration and noise.

[@davidhudson5452]

Nice job Keith, Bet the engine will run great. Dont mess with Keith wheel

[@hands-on-m8c]

You do good work, many people would have just said it was good enough and went with it.

[@markbernier8434]

Very educational. Thank you.

[@richardtaylor7199]

Great job.

[@sshep7119]

Chatter on a lathe is no different than the chatter in the surface of a road. There are several options on a part like this to get rid of the chatter, first and best option is to never get the chatter to begin with calculate the SFM speed then reduce it significantly per the part design, second you have to cut below the chatter to get rid of it deeper cuts are best, reverse the feed direction works well, cut on both sides of the part at once like a brake lathe (making a custom tool for a lathe to mimic a brake lathe is not hard and is a fun project). Mounting it to the face of the chuck is always the best and most rigid but not always an option. Ceramic or CBN inserts with tight nose radius and a proper rake are great for stubborn and abrasive materials like cast iron or copper castings. Million ways to do things, these are just a few things that have worked for me.

[@criswagemansbophadoung8081]

Great tutorial!

[@davidc6510]

Keith what a great video showcasing the skill to troubleshoot your feed and speeds, damping techniques, and use of a face plate to tackle chatter on a stubborn casting to get it turned down to meet specifications. Awesome job on the work, video, and most of all thanks for sharing!

[@melshea2519]

Happy Wednesday Keith 😊

[@desoto3749]

Great.....A good challenge that experience was able to solve. Nicely done.

[@paulputnam2305]

Wow Professor, that was stubborn fun!!!

[@johncloar1692]

Thanks Keith for the video. Nice project thanks again.

[@tonyn3123]

Enjoyed the video as well as the real-time issues encountered and resolved. My career was in a different line of work but also involved periodic issues that had to be systematically worked out. Flywheels look nice. Thanks.

[@richardsurber8226]

Nice work Keith. True to VintageMachinery style you put another machinist back to work. Thanks for producing the video

[@robertpearson8798]

Reminds me of one of my high school teachers, “let’s cut the chatter folks”.😆

[@larrywalker7759]

Another option instead of a face plate for mitigating chatter would be if a 3 or 4 jaw chuck tailstock could be used instead of the conical point live center style that was used herein. The chucked tailstock would add a significant beneficial mass to damp the harmonics tendency. But a chucked tailstock limits the tool post access and that probably means the cutting could only be done on the face opposite the chucked tailstock. Many times a solution to a problem also has its own inherent problems.

[@elmarqo_3448]

Nice job figuring out that chatter problem.

[@frankerceg4349]

Thank you Keith!

[@ChrisBrummitt]

Really enjoyed that vlog Keith- really professional finish as always!

[@sky4you2b]

Great Content Kid !

[@se38005]

19:22 You can never have too many lathes 😃

[@mrbrown3462]

I did a set of flywheels for a model hit and miss engine a few months ago and I had chatter in mine I found putting a couple layers of rubber hose over the spokes removed most of it but I only turned my hub and outer diameters on the lathe and did all my facing and boring on my millng machine.

[@frenchcreekvalley]

Could you make a leather brake shoe sort of thing to dampen the vibrations? Maybe clean up with a die grinder held in the tool post?

[@stevesprouse2388]

Love your problem solving on this one!

[@WillyBemis]

Thanks! This was super helpful!

[@tpobrienjr]

The eccentric weight built in to the flywheel is a math problem that would have made my head hurt if I'd had to solve it in dynamics class. I think it would be challenging with AutoCAD, too. Thanks for showing that one, sir.

[@jamesdavis8021]

Cast iron flywheels give me nightmares.😂Brass is not as bad.When I saw those thin spokes, I knew you were in trouble.

[@StevenEverett7]

Very enjoyable! Thank you Keith.

[@RambozoClown]

Another method that works to get rid of chatter is to cut both sides at once, like a brake lathe cuts brake rotors.

[@mr.b2232]

Thanks Keith 👍😎

[@BobPackard]

When you started, I wondered at that time whether cylindrical grinding may stop the ringing. If you had a tool-post grinder......

[@ljackson8220]

Looks nice

[@Ervan-l9v]

Did you ream that hole dry. Anchor lube works good on reamers.

[@Stitchesandsnaps]

I would have broached the keyway opposite the counterweight to help offset the balance

[@Deg99]

Try using bike tire tubes (cut and wrapped around piece) to absorb the resonance....I've used this trick numerous times with success, machining brake drums which want to chatter something terrible... just a thought? 🙂

[@elsdp-4560]

Thank you for sharing. Very nice.👍

[@richardrogers567]

Nice work.

[@Ervan-l9v]

Looks like a fun project! More for the end user than you, but still worthwhile in your shop being all cast iron. Carbide tooling has made machining cast iron much easier and predictable.

[@Ervan-l9v]

A negative rake angle will possibly help the chatter problem.

[@johnpublic168]

Wooden block or rubber band for vibration.

[@RichieCat4223]

4:20 It was chucked up to a tapered casting?

[@ellieprice363]

Thanks for another interesting machining job. I was hoping you would face those sides from the inside out with a sharper tool for less chatter. Does anyone know the purpose of the web between the spokes?

[@rl3898]

I think I can see a depth for that edge , it is measured from the hub on each side.

[@katelights]

On todays episode of Keiths To-Do List....

[@SgtCude59]

Should the outside of the wheel be crowned so the belt rides in the center

[@chrissmith513]

Interesting 😊😊😊

[@madebysteve1738]

HEY KEITH,, not sure if it will help but when turning brake rotors we would use rubber belt with lead weights on it to reduce chatter,, it might help with this,,

[@josefcotorreslopez8167]

I always try to do the part at once or move the part as few times as possible. On the first one you can turn the inside and outside of the core and the outside of the flywheel. Also clean up the face and everything is perfectly concentric. Then you flip it over and you can center on the outside of the flywheel and the inside of the core. Mounting the flywheel on the thin shaft is the cause of the vibrations. Not a good idea. A 4 claw chuck is not faster to center than the flat chuck.? Greetings.

[@ratdude747]

I'd think the keyway clocking is to some degree critical to maintain crank balance... the counter weights are likely to offset the angular mass of the crank pin. That said, the engine likely doesn't run all that fast, so it's not critical enough that one would need to balance the assembly like they do for "modern" engines (with weight reduction holes and bobweights).

[@petegraham1458]

Good solution using the faceplate!

[@timf6916]

Good job. Nice

[@alstonofalltrades3142]

I can't wait until the day I have a metal lathe and stand there chuffed to bits with the part I just machined. Right now I'm still slogging it out learning to scrape and do the 3 plate method. Blinking hard slow progressing work but worth it.

[@walterplummer3808]

Good morning Keith! I wonder how the average home guy could hope to machine these. Thanks

[@SettledBatches]

8:58 - No idea why anyone gripes about using a center drill instead of a spotting drill; they got stock in a spotting drill company? Why would I buy a "spotting drill" of any size when I already have center drills of several sizes which serve the exact same process? 9:08 - Got a TiN coated 3/8" bit which has served as a pilot drill for near 30 years; one of these days... 10:00 - Grew up (from age 13? - late ''50s) having access to a shop with a set a reamers! Could not believe the accuracy of the resulting holes! It was quickly obvious that bolt holes could be drilled; holes fitted to shafts needed reaming (or perhaps boring, depending on the required fit). 20:57 -Pattern draft for mold release. 34:56 - Or a rotary table on the mill. 37:07 - Standing O!

[@lycanthropej]

is it necessary to balance the weight of the 2 fly wheels?

[@bernardwill7196]

It's a scale model , so think errors scale also .

[@kensherwin4544]

The flywheels are unbalanced on purpose to counteract the weight of the piston and rod flying back and forth. At full scale, the entire engine would be balanced as an assembly.

[@robertpearson8798]

@@kensherwin4544 I was wondering that myself. Makes sense.

[@robertpearson8798]

@@kensherwin4544 If that’s the case then the placements of the keyways in relation to the counterweighted portion of the wheel and the placement of the keyways on the crankshaft would indeed be important, so he was correct to follow the drawings.

[@kensherwin4544]

@@robertpearson8798 You can also notice that he didn't obsess over how closely he lined up that keyway. If he missed it 5 degrees, it would throw off the balance effectiveness by less than 1/2 of 1%. It mattered but close was plenty good enough.

[@bobflores]

Perseverance pays off. Any plans to add a DRO to the big lathe? Thanks for the video.

[@zuke-ci4vd]

To add some class to my project, I would have you stamp them "Flywheels Turned By Keith Rucker"! 😎👍

[@garybrenner6236]

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@TheLemonhawk]

Do fly wheels scale down easily, or do they need to be a little heavier that a simple scale down ratio?

[@tomjewett5839]

I'm just wondering if the length of the mandrel shaft would have made a difference in the chatter.

[@LuggageStardate]

The problem was with the part having weight as counterbalance to the piston arm or whatever. There are ways to balance the stuff but usually involve adding weights to the table anyway.

[@SciPunk215]

It was very satisfying to see (and hear) the chatter disappear. It makes perfect sense that those spokes would resonate like that. Good job!!!

[@masteruniverse3506]

What is the reason for the off-center weight on the flywheel?

[@emma.j.nation]

To help counterbalance the weight of the conrod big end and crankshaft rod journal, maybe.

[@ddblairco]

very nice